Tidying up the missions and briefing graphics now, just had to share some of the skins UWE has made...in flight...
i15s behind the lines
Finnish Air Force (FAF) G.50s attached to (1) I/JG77 as 'observers'
(1) I/JG77 sets up for a strafing run
Flt Officer Tim Elkington in Hurricane 'GO-31' takes Russian Ace Boris Safonov in 'White 77' on a familiarisation flight over Kola inlet
(Safonov skin courtesy asisbiz)
Hope you agree, nice work by Uwe!
H
Last edited by heinkill; Jul-02-2014 at 16:18.
Sweet, those are looking very nice!!
Don B
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Re: Murmansk screenies
To my regret, I can see that there is no way to convince you to leave this obsession!Originally Posted by heinkill
Excuse my English, I use the Google Translate.
Just happy I was able to help out! Thanks much for the opportunity.
Nope! A couple of 'observers' attached to (1)I/JG77 is my compromise. Uwe's skins are too nice not to feature!To my regret, I can see that there is no way to convince you to leave this obsession!
On the topic of the map,
a) I really like the layout as you have made it. It will mean I have to redo all the missions and airfields that I already populated, but it is much better geographically. You win!
b) BUT I can't put Murmansk port where you put it, there is no way for shipping to reach Abbeville, or to add sufficient 'port' infrastructure. So the 'port' has to be located up at the coast at the bottom of the bay (in what would be the Kola inlet), even if the city is located as you have it on the map. I will still put the Vaenga fields where you recommend though.
Cheers!
PS, you seem to have populated that map with objects? Do you have those templates as a download?
H
Last edited by heinkill; Jul-04-2014 at 09:59.
nice work(as usual..)- can't wait to get into action
S!
Re: Murmansk screenies
I think that it will not a great disaster if the port of Murmansk in the game will be a little away from the Murmansk City…
For example, somewhere here:
Murmansk-port.jpg
Notes to the map:
The map shows the airfields where there were real aviation units at the beginning of September 1941, when thither arrived units of No.151 Wing RAF.
1,2,3,4Sqn 72 SAP VVS VMF – Fighter squadrons;
5Sqn 72 SAP VVS VMF – Bomber squadron.
72 SAP VVS VMF (72nd Mixed aviation regiment Soviet Naval Aviation):
1st & 2nd Squadrons – I-15bis;
3rd Squadron – I-153;
4th Squadron – I-16;
5th Squadron – SB & Pe-2 (last only 2 aircrafts).
145 IAP VVS (145th Fighter aviation regiment Soviet Air Forces): I-16, LaGG-3 & MiG-3.
147 IAP VVS (147th Fighter aviation regiment Soviet Air Forces): I-153 & MiG-3.
Not captured by the 'red' territory in which the Pummanki airfield (Le Havre Octeville) – plays the role of Rybachy and Sredny Peninsulas (on which was the named airfield), which have not been occupied by Germany during WWII, despite the fact that front line reached the Zapadnaya Litsa River.
No problem, a little later I will give you templates (I'm currently not at home).
But it really has very little of any objects, I just has placed icons airfields, buildings and the front line, to make a drawing in Photoshop.
Last edited by Flugber.; Jul-04-2014 at 15:00.
Excuse my English, I use the Google Translate.
Don't worry, I have moved all the objects around to conform to your locations now.
Now I am going through the missions readjusting all the waypoints and timings, but I agree it is worth it to have a more geographically accurate map, as far as distances go anyway!
So, no need for you to send any templates.
Thanks for all the historical info and guidance! I was wondering where to base the 'SBs' and now I know...
H
Re: Murmansk screenies
Well, I still put the templates here, as promised. If you need them, you can pick them up (Murmansk.rar).
In fact, they were based there, and there. Both the airfields are very close to each other (Vayenga-1 & Vayenga-2), so they are both equally be used by all units of the 72 SAP VVS VMF during the WWII, including the bomber.
Therefore, it is now very difficult to find out which unit of the 72 SAP VVS VMF was on this airfield, or on a nearby, at a certain moment of the WWII. We can say exactly only one thing – that they were either in Vayenga-1 or Vayenga-2.
The remaining bomber units of the Soviet Air Forces located far enough away from Murmansk. Nearest – 137 BAP VVS (137th Bomber aviation regiment Soviet Air Forces) was based at the Afrikanda airfield. Though of course, for the bombers – it is quite permissible distance. But this airfield will be very difficult 'fit' in our little map.
By the way, why not use as SB – Blenheim? And then the BR.20 can be used as a Pe-2 – as a horizontal bomber (in my opinion, they are more similar to each other)?
(By the way, in fact, but very few Soviet Pe-2 pilots during the WWII knew and were able to bomb with a steep dive)
PS: And by the way, if the Germans simply can not do without the Finnish 'observers', then why not use instead of G.50's – Gladiators, which was quite a lot in the Finnish Air Force during the WWII? Otherwise there is a strange feeling that Soviet I-16's – suspiciously resemble Finnish G.50's… this may slightly confuse Soviet pilots!
Last edited by Flugber.; Dec-14-2014 at 11:30. Reason: added Postscript.
Excuse my English, I use the Google Translate.
Fair suggestion, but missions are built now.By the way, why not use as SB – Blenheim? And then the BR.20 can be used as a Pe-2 – as a horizontal bomber (in my opinion, they are more similar to each other)?
Again, fair suggestion, but the Gladiator isn't flyable. I like to have as many flyables in the missions as possible, each with their own objectives.PS: And by the way, if the Germans simply can not do without the Finnish 'observers', then why not use instead of G.50's – Gladiators, which was quite a lot in the Finnish Air Force during the WWII? Otherwise there is a strange feeling that Soviet I-16's – suspiciously resemble Finnish G.50's… this may slightly confuse Soviet pilots!
Thx!
H
Re: Murmansk screenies
What a pity… it is a pity… just really wanted it to be so, as described below:
Well, also we do not have and flyable I-15bis (CR.42)… Sometimes you have to sacrifice something in life…
Excuse my English, I use the Google Translate.
I think it works well with the extra distance that your new map gives for the missions and flights.
H
Re: Murmansk screenies
By the way, why 'White 77'? As is known, after the replacement of the British tail numbers on the Soviet – Safonov flown with tail number 10:
Hurricane_Safonov_10.jpg
(And by the way, in the Soviet & Russian Air Forces the color of the tail numbers does not matter, as it was in the Luftwaffe)
Excuse my English, I use the Google Translate.
Re: Murmansk screenies
For future the 'Murmansk' REDUX campaign: Long sought… Finally found……
Aluminum dope color with soviet markings.
Skin of Soviet SB bombers in the Arctic:
USB_6.jpg
USB (training modification of the SB bomber) from the 72 SAP VVS VMF, Autumn-Winter 1941.
Source: Alexander MARDANOV 'Defending the Russian North'.
Last edited by Flugber.; Jul-29-2014 at 14:00.
Excuse my English, I use the Google Translate.
Sorry flugbar, I'm not doing that skin!
Re: Murmansk screenies
Heinkill, my friend, I still can not understand why you continue to stubbornly paint the number 77 on board the aircraft of Safonov?Version 1.1 of the campaign now available:
http://1drv.ms/1sVPVTC
…
24 mission Murmansk campaign comprising:
Boris Safonov 151 Wing campaign, 12 missions
…
(And frankly, I still do not understand why you draw on it the Soviet markings?)
Excuse my English, I use the Google Translate.
Flugber
I am not alone...
http://www.redbubble.com/people/ahun...oris-f-safonov
There is much debate. He flew many machines. See asisbiz forums also. The skin is theirs not mine.
Fred
Re: Murmansk screenies
Yes, a lot of controversy… But the drawing of the modern painter A.Hermann, as you know, can not be evidence for this.
There is no evidence that Safonov even a got on a plane with tail number 77, someday.
I can give you at least two historical evidence:
1) There is a the History of the 2 GvIAP VVS VMF (2nd Guards Fighter aviation regiment Soviet Naval Aviation – such a designation was later assigned to the 72 SAP VVS VMF). There have memories of veterans of this Regiment – I'll try to translate for you into English:
2) Here I made a mistake! The following evidence should not be taken into consideration! There are frames of the military cameraman Michael Oshurkov, on them filmed Safonov, at the moment when he gets out of his P-40E (41-13531)*. Here are the frames:... Wing commander, Captain Safonov, was a frequent guest in the 2nd Squadron. In this unit he had many friends with whom he began service in the North. His 'ten' often stood on the 'line' with fighters from this squadron...
[05:52–05:55] '70 years on guard of the Arctic sky: Part 1' (Rus).
In these frames, we clearly see the number 10 on board of his aircraft.
More about the tail number of the Hurricane of Safonov other evidence simply is not.
Incidentally, Safonov was very fond of the number 10. Russian expression 'Hit the top ten {hit the mark / to hit the bull's-eye}' – was his favorite expression (he was an expert rifleman with a pistol). After the I-16, all his subsequent the aircrafts were with tail number 10. And he was killed on the P-40E, which also had the tail number 10.
But all of the above has no relation to the period when the units of No.151 Wing RAF were based in Murmansk.
British markings and the letter codes have were painted over later (there were left only the numbers, as well as have drawn red stars). But this happened after the British pilots have transferred their aircrafts to the Soviet pilots, and were preparing swim away to her home!
Until then, until the British pilots were taught of Soviet pilots to fly on the Hurricanes, at the time they were flying with British identification marks, and Boris Safonov including.
There is no information what kind of tail number was at the Hurricane, which preferred to fly Safonov, at the time, but there is one photograph where he sits in the cockpit of aircraft with the tail number GU∙35 (Z4012):
Hurricane_151Wing_GU35-Z4012.jpg
In this figure by the Hurricane erroneously is depicted serial number Z4018. In fact, such a serial number had the aircraft with tail number FH∙41.
This photo is also available on Asisbiz: Boris Safonov on the Hurricane Mk.IIb – GU∙35 (Z4012).
Personally, I think that it would be more authentically if you would in your campaign, have planted Safonov it was during this the aircraft.
Last edited by Flugber.; Apr-10-2015 at 14:30. Reason: *the video shows not the Hurricane, but the P-40E Kittyhawk.
Excuse my English, I use the Google Translate.
Thanks. When I read the text below on redbanner I thought no matter what we do someone will argue, so I went with 77 for which there was a good skin.
During his own familiarisation and training, it seems clear that Safonov piloted a number of different aircraft. There are photographs of Safonov standing in, or on, Hurricanes "GU-35" (Z4012?), "FU-56" (Z4017) and "FK-49" (Z3768), just for starters. However, it is known that on 16 November Safonov flew PO Elkington's Hurricane IIb "GO-31" (Z5236) to Shongui aerodrome for "familiarisation and inspection". This airbase was an interesting destination, as the 7th Army shortly thereafter established the 769, and then 768, IAP-PVO at this base, all flying Hawker Hurricanes.
The evidence regarding Safonov's utilisation of Hurricanes on operations is somewhat fragmentary. However, it is known that he piloted, initially, Hurricane Z5159 (ex- "GV-33") for at least a few missions. Thereafter, the serial number associated with Safonov's sorties is usually given as Z5227 (ex- "FE-53"). Alas, we do not know how either of these aircraft might have appeared when flown by Safonov.
Just meet in the middle and go with 43.5
In fact... Hurri 43.5 was flown by PO Neddy Seagoon. Famous for the time he ran out of ammo and hurled aJust meet in the middle and go with 43.5
Piroshki at the enemy.
H
Re: Murmansk screenies
I confess frankly, I personally have never seen the photos where Safonov sits (or stands) in (or on) the aircrafts, listed by you. As you understand, people can write a lot on the Internet, but still would like to see these writings was confirmed. Personally, I've only seen a photo of that time at which Safonov stands on the Hurricane with a the tail number GU∙35 (Z4012), which made war correspondent Yevgeny Khaldei in October 1941 at the Vayenga-1 airfield.
If you possess such photographs on which Safonov sits in the Hurricanes "FU∙56" (Z4017), "FK∙49" (Z3768), then could you please show them to me? I'd really like to see them.
Yes, no doubt about the fact that Safonov flew on many aircrafts… There are photos of where he stands alone or in a group with other pilots on the background of various Hurricanes. But you will agree, this fact is not a credible proof that he had flown exactly on these aircrafts.
However, in the pilot's log book of Tim Elkington was noted that the October 18, 1941, he handed over his the Hurricane "GO∙31" (Z5236) to Sgt. Peter Romanov from the 78 IAP VVS VMF, in connection with which, he put his signature to out there. It almost certainly does not prove anything, but still puts a bit into question the circumstances of the flight Boris Safonov on it.
Do not quite understand the purpose of the flight. Why "familiarize" with this airfield? Shonguy airfield (now derelict) and so was well-known to Soviet airmen. It was used by the Soviet Air Forces even before the WWII. Beginning in the Spring 1940, out there was based the 145 IAP VVS. It is on the above-mentioned airfield, in the Summer of 1941, the famous Hptm. Gerhard Schaschke from the Stab./ZG76 enjoyed making the raids on his the Bf.110E-2 with the support of the Bf.109E's from the 1./JG77 than was delivering a very big concern to Soviet pilots from the 145 IAP VVS.
Oh well… Let's leave it for the history…
Was also a the 767 IAP PVO (767th Fighter aviation regiment Soviet Air Defence Forces). But all these three Regiments were formed much later: 767 & 768 IAP PVO – in March, and 769 IAP PVO – in January 1942.
All three of these Regiments were the units of the 122nd Fighter Aviation Division Soviet Air Defence Forces, which in turn, never was part of the 7th Air Army Soviet Air Forces.
Where it is known, whom it is known where to get the sources of information? Of course, it is likely that Safonov did several single flights also on these aircrafts, but credible evidence to support this, I do not see.
We can say that the first Hurricane, which was flying Safonov – was an aircraft with tail number 01 (Z5252). This aircraft was donated by the British airmen September 25, 1941 to personally Soviet Northern Fleet Air Force Commander of Major general Alexander Kuznetsov, so he was the only one on which immediately have painted over British markings and letter code, and instead have drawn red stars and the tail number 01. Personally Major general Kuznetsov in virtue of his position on this the Hurricane certainly did not fly (except once), so this aircraft was used for training flights of other Soviet pilots, including Safonov.
The next the Hurricane, which was used Safonov, and that can be confirmed by the documents, and it is this confirmed by the aforementioned photo of Yevgeny Khaldei, it was a the aircraft with the tail number GU∙35 (Z4012). In this photo we can see that at least until October 1941 (while yet the British pilots not floated away home), Safonov flown on this aircraft with British identification marks and the tail number.
Later, when he was in the composition of the newly formed the 78 IAP VVS VMF (when British pilots have already floated away home), Safonov flown on the Hurricane with tail number 10 (Z5226) – by the time the British markings replaced by the Soviet. This the tail number of his aircraft confirmed the above newsreel shots of Michael Oshurkov and memories of veterans.
In addition, the serial number of his the Hurricane (Z5226) confirmed by the list of aircrafts that were as part of the 78 IAP VVS VMF on January 1, 1942. In this list, the very first is registered the aircraft of Wing commander with tail number 10 and serial number Z5226 (as Wing commander of the 78 IAP VVS VMF at the time was Maj. Safonov).
More about other the Hurricanes on which probably flown Safonov, personally I have no reliable information. It is very likely that he committed a rare flights and in the other aircrafts, but what which of them specifically – is unlikely that anyone else will tell you quite accurately.
Later he was transferred to the P-40E also with tail number 10 (41-13531), and on the Hurricanes never again flew.
Excuse my English, I use the Google Translate.
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