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Thread: Keep getting shot down by a Ju-87

  1. #31
    Ace Roblex's Avatar
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    Re: Keep getting shot down by a Ju-87

    If you read Rudels biography it seems he thought Russian fighters were little more than an annoyance to be dodged on your way to the drop. On more than one occasion he landed to pick up downed comrades despite the fighters still being above and returned home still dodging with someone sitting on his lap (and presumably his gunners). His superiors banned him from doing it after the first few times but he did it anyway.

    As for the 110, its turning circle was not a lot better than the Blenheims. The blenny has a very low wing loading and high lift aerofoil wings so turns quite well. I once stayed on the tail of a desperately jinking low E 109 for at least 60 seconds and was able to get enough bullets into him from my one crappy wing gun to shoot him down. If anything is over modelled it is probably the strength of the airframe; the aerodynamics would theoretically allow good maneuverability but in reality the wings would break if you used it all.
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    Novice Pilot joffan34's Avatar
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    Re: Keep getting shot down by a Ju-87

    Quote Originally Posted by GloriousRuse View Post
    The Stuka is, as some have mentioned, slightly overmodeled.

    But, if you are dying to it, it is still mostly a product of personal pilot stupidity. The only way to die to a Stuka is to get so greedy that you turn fight it or sit saddled on its six with a human gunner. Even a hurricane can toy with a stuka at will if the pilot uses 30 seconds of patience to rebuild the advantage between passes. Its when pilots yank on the stick, salivating and drooling, and refuse to leave guns range for even a moment because they NED THAT KILL, NOW! NOW! MINE! I MUST KILL! NOT 15 SECONDS FROM NOW, RIGHT NOW! that they die.
    Thankyou
    Yeah thats just how I fly,NOT!
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  3. #33
    Supporting Member SorcererDave's Avatar
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    Re: Keep getting shot down by a Ju-87

    Quote Originally Posted by b0czek View Post
    Yesterday I had fun incident while flying Stuka.

    I bombed Cantenbury defences and headed base to rearm. I was on the deck. Than I heard my gunner shots and I received few shots in a tank. So I started to turn, switched to non leaking fuel tank, and looked back. I saw Hurricane on my tail trying to catch me. After some time of turning I saw, that he is no longer on my tail and I started to outturn him. I tried to do a little bit tighter turn because after being prey I started to feel like hunter. Than I saw that this Hurricane got into "acrobatic figure", and continued spin until he met waves.

    I was satisfied even I did not shot any bullet into him. But I realise that if he would do BnZ instead of turn I would be the one in waves.
    Haha, yeah you tend to get quite a lot of maneuver kills when flying the Stuka. It never stops being funny.

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    Re: Keep getting shot down by a Ju-87

    Quote Originally Posted by RAF74_Buzzsaw View Post
    The Stuka may be a little over-powered, which is allowing it to sustain turns better than it likely should... tests of the aircraft are not readily available and I had to make some transpositions from later turn data on the Ju-87D's, so my estimates were possibly wrong for sustained turns. Instant turn rates should be spot on.

    This will be looked at for TF 5.0.
    I am curious - would it be theoretically possible to do some CFD simulations? Would it give any value for better modelling, or more precise model?

  5. #35
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    Re: Keep getting shot down by a Ju-87

    Quote Originally Posted by joffan34 View Post
    Thankyou
    Yeah thats just how I fly,NOT!
    And yet Mr. bunting keeps racking up the kills against you, starting disadvantaged at low altitude (and if he is not starting disadvantaged as a bomber...and you are the faster, better climbing, aircraft...well...you get the idea...) with a slower aircraft with only 2x forward firing MGs who's only strength is in a hard horizontal turn. There's a pretty good chance you had to give him the opportunity to kill you. We all do it. 109 pilots and spit pilots alike get mindlessly greedy/stupid and get dead for it. Its pretty much exactly how countless 109 pilots (self included) die on the deck to spits. We start with an advantage, get low, get slow, and start turning our advantage away when w be flying high, fast, gentle arcs of boredom but efficiency. Because its fun, and exciting, and it draws you in, and you just flew ten minutes to get in a fight anyhow...but it still gets you dead.

    It may be time to re-examine whether you are flying as conservatively as you think you are or if the prospect of a Stuka kill is pushing you into rash actions.

  6. #36
    Ace Roblex's Avatar
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    Re: Keep getting shot down by a Ju-87

    Quote Originally Posted by GloriousRuse View Post
    There's a pretty good chance you had to give him the opportunity to kill you. We all do it. 109 pilots and spit pilots alike get mindlessly greedy/stupid and get dead for it. Its pretty much exactly how countless 109 pilots (self included) die on the deck to spits. We start with an advantage, get low, get slow, and start turning our advantage away when w be flying high, fast, gentle arcs of boredom but efficiency. Because its fun, and exciting, and it draws you in, and you just flew ten minutes to get in a fight anyhow...but it still gets you dead.

    It may be time to re-examine whether you are flying as conservatively as you think you are or if the prospect of a Stuka kill is pushing you into rash actions.
    I can't argue with that. It is a while since I was killed by a stuka but I usually limp home with serious damage because I refused to treat this lumbering beast with the respect it deserved. As someone said earlier, we think it is an insult to our manhood to treat a stuka as anything more than a defenceless sitting duck. Thinking back, I probably have as much trouble, and take as much damage, shooting down a JU87 than I do shooting down a JU88.
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    Supporting Member LuseKofte's Avatar
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    Re: Keep getting shot down by a Ju-87

    Quote Originally Posted by Roblex View Post
    If you read Rudels biography it seems he thought Russian fighters were little more than an annoyance to be dodged on your way to the drop. On more than one occasion he landed to pick up downed comrades despite the fighters still being above and returned home still dodging with someone sitting on his lap (and presumably his gunners). His superiors banned him from doing it after the first few times but he did it anyway.

    That is correct, in one of the occasions it went wrong, the ground he landed on was to soft, he could not take off again, so the 2 crews tried to return to own lines by foot. If I remember correctly Rudel was the only one making
    In one occasion this happened with a famous squadron leader flying P-51 shot down by flak after a strafing run on a German airfield, the squadron fended germans trying to capture him and one of them landed and picked up their squadron leader. I cannot for the life of me remember who

  8. #38
    Student Pilot Chubby Bunting's Avatar
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    Re: Keep getting shot down by a Ju-87

    Just had a couple of epic battles against Snapper in his Spitfire. He flew it smart and we fought it out until he finally ran out of fuel. The score was tied at one each S! Good fights.

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