Beam Navigation

[ATAG_Ezzie]

That sounds like Kampfgruppe 100 (KGr 100).

KGr 100 (not to be confused with Kampfgeschwader KG 100) were a unit which were fitted with the X-Gerät and Y-Gerät equipment first and would run leader missions to drop flares in ahead of the main force. I'm guessing your book is about that.

I've not read it myself, but it sounds pretty interesting and, certainly, if there is any information in there of interest, then please let us know. Thanks.

Yes it is re KGr 100. But interestingly it does also discuss II./KG 55 who, while they didn't use the special aids, did perform the pathfinder role for most of the night raids over England in Nov - Dec 1940. They had extensive night flying experience and experienced crews and did the role visually using flares. Very interesting and something i was unaware of till i read the book - i had heard of KGr 100 which was why i bought the book but not II./ KG 55's role.

Actually the book says that II./KG 55 were the first to use flares and - I quote - 'an act often wrongly ascribed to KGr 100'. That is only this author's opinion and i haven't bothered to try and see if other people have different ideas. The book is very well written and apparently well-researched but that doesn't necessarily mean its 100% correct though.

I used the book plus a couple of others i have on the -111 and the LW to build a II./KG55 IL-46 campaign over at M4T and enjoyed flying the -111 while creating it. The -111 is on my 'to-do' list on COD to fly one day.

Ezzie

[ATAG_Ezzie]

That's absolutely fine, of course.

However, a couple of tips, if I may...

Somewhere in 290-299 would be more convenient for pilots. The starting point is 300, and it is easier to go down a few notches, than down to the bottom of the sequence.

Also, by spacing them out a little (e.g. 291 294 296 299), you leave some room for extras within the sequence, and you remove the chance of accidental error by having a lot of adjacent frequencies. It also makes it a little bit more realistic as radio frequencies rarely occurred at uniform spacings in a tight block.

OK - good points. Will adjust accordingly.

Ezzie

[Torric270]

Short and sweet to get the ball rolling: Hopefully this will be an easy copy and paste.

For Sealion, Hellfire, or both:

[Stationary]
  Static3 Stationary.RadioBeacon.GenericLongRangeMast de 351416.91 145302.81 -100.00 /radioFreq 304
  Static1 Stationary.RadioBeacon.GenericLongRangeMast de 306486.00 160806.53 270.00 /radioFreq 301
  Static2 Stationary.RadioBeacon.GenericLongRangeMast de 264175.22 186227.70 270.00 /radioFreq 302
  Static0 Stationary.RadioBeacon.GenericLongRangeMast de 296345.38 217413.20 -55.00 /radioFreq 303

Briefing:

Axis:

Bombers:

Beam Navigation:

There are 4 non directional beacons at Tramecourt (channel 301): Boulogne (channel 302): Oye-Plage (channel 303): and Arras (channel 304) for navigational aids and for practicing night bombing.

Repost just in case it was missed. Disregard if it wasn't.

[xvii-Dietrich]

Just for an update, I'm still working on this. It took longer than expected, as I'm still trying to track down the original locations of the actual transmitters. But, no, I haven't forgotten about it.

[xvii-Dietrich]

PROPOSAL

The idea is to divide the frequency allocation into blocks to make it easier to get an overview of the system and to realise the allocation for frequencies for specific projects. As already explained above, the default frequency is 300 and this should never be used. That makes the default the "off" position, which will reduce confusion to new pilots and make it easier to track errors. Frequencies below 300 (i.e. 200-299) will be for mission specific frequency use. This means that any mission builder can use any frequency in this band, without worrying that he or she will be over-writing "official" frequencies and thus leading to confusion (or errors). Frequencies from 301-313 will be used for the actual Knickebein frequencies, as discussed with ATAG_Torric270. Although the frequencies are actually NDB band, the set use of these frequencies will be in alignment with the historical station numbers and thus lend to the authenticity of our missions.

For 314-340, I've made this the first large NDB (non-directional beacon) block. There are numerous gaps to allow for future new map regions or airfield use. Additionally, I've avoided placing nearby airfields on adjacent frequencies and adjacent frequencies on any given map should be pretty rare with this scheme. Again, we are trying to have something authentic, in the absence of a detailed (100 Hz-resolution) system and in the absence of historical frequency lists.

The airfields covered are from all the existing ATAG missions (Cherbourg, Sealion, Fall Rot, Hellfire Corner and Kanalkampf) and include all locations from where the Ju 88, He 111 and Br.20 bombers fly. These aircraft are the only types that currently have this level of LW navigation systems.

The X-Gerät frequencies are also mapped into the NDB range, even though these are typically much higher. Although, like the Knickebein system, this is anachronistic in this usage, it should nevertheless serve as a suitable compromise, for their implementation, given the limitations of the existing smiluator engine. I've done the same for the Y-Gerät frequencies. Like the Knickebein, these are grouped and the last number of the station matches the last number of the frequency for ease of learning.

Although it is tempting to use blocks fo frequencies for specific missions (e.g. 310-319 for Fall Rot), this is flawed in that the missions will slowly evolve and new ones will replace the old. Sooner or later you will need to click through to 580-589 to get to the "current mission". Additionally, there should be common frequencies for common locations between maps. In the proposal below, the K06 (Mont Violette) would be a common Knickebein site used in several missions (e.g Seeloewe, Hellfire Corner). Likewise for common airfields (e.g. Tramecourt). It does not make sense to put these onto separate channels for separate missions. It also provides set frequencies for new mission builders, who can rely on (in the future) well-established blocks.

As indicated in one of my earlier posts, I would recommend against implementing frequencies for Bernhard- or Erika-Systeme just yet.

See my previous posts for references.

Also note: tba = to be allocated (used to indicate a reserved location for future allocation)

---

200-299 = For mission-specific frequencies.

300 = Default ( DO NOT USE! )

301 = K01 / Klepp (just south of Stavanger), Norway
302 = K02 / Bredstedt (Stollberg), Germany
303 = K03 / Huisduinen/Julianadorp, Netherlands
304 = K04 / Kleve (Klever Berg), Germany
305 = K05 / Bergen op Zoom, Netherlands
306 = K06 / Mont Violette (Pas-de-Calais), France
307 = K07 / Greny (Haute-Normandie), France
308 = K08 / Mont Pinçon (Normandie), France
309 = K09 / Beaumont- Hague (Normandie), France
310 = K10 / Sortosville-en-Beaumont (Normandie), France
311 = K11 / St-Fiacre (Bretagne), France
312 = K12 / 8 km east of Lörrach, Germany
313 = K13 / Noto (Sicily), Italy

314 = NDB / Tramecourt, France
315 = NDB / (tba)
316 = NDB / (tba)
317 = NDB / Rouen-Boos, France
318 = NDB / Oye-Plage, France
319 = NDB / (tba)
320 = NDB / Dieppe, France
321 = NDB / Theville, France
322 = NDB / (tba)
323 = NDB / Yvrench, France
324 = NDB / (tba)
325 = NDB / (tba)
326 = NDB / Barly, France
327 = NDB / Zutkerque, France
328 = NDB / (tba)
329 = NDB / (tba)
330 = NDB / Arras, France
331 = NDB / (tba)
332 = NDB / (tba)
333 = NDB / (tba)
334 = NDB / Ligescourt, France
335 = NDB / (tba)
336 = NDB / (tba)
337 = NDB / St.Omer-Clairmarais, France
338 = NDB / (tba)
339 = NDB / (tba)
340 = NDB / (tba)

341 = X1 / "Donau" Julianadorp bei Den Helder, Netherlands
342 = X2 / "Rhein" 62250 Audembert bei Cap Griz Nez, France
343 = X3 / "Oder" 62250 Audembert bei Cap Griz Nez, France
344 = X4 / "Elbe" 62250 Audembert bei Cap Griz Nez, France
345 = X5 / "Weser" Bucht von Ecalgrain am Cap de la Hague, France
346 = X6 / "Spree" Bucht von Ecalgrain am Cap de la Hague, France
347 = X7 / "Isar" Bucht von Ecalgrain am Cap de la Hague, France

348 = NDB / (tba)
349 = NDB / (tba)
350 = NDB / (tba)

351 = Y1 / 4021 Ullandhaug, Norway
352 = Y2 / "Berta", 59670 Cassel, France
353 = Y3 / "Cicero", 76450 Veulettes-sur-Mer, France
354 = Y4 / "Dora", 76450 Saint-Martin-aux-Buneaux, France
355 = Y5 / (unknown location, tba)
356 = Y6 / "Gustav", 62132 Boursin, France
357 = Y7 / "Anton", 50440 Jobourg, France
358 = Y8 / "Friedrich", La Feuille (SSW Morlaix), France
359 = Y9 / 76390 Aumale, France

360+ = (tba)

---

So, the next step... I have latitude/longitude coordinates for the K/X/Y series of beams, but these need to be converted into the FMB system and then checked to ensure they do not clash with existing scenery. Airfield NDBs are easier, but still this will need to be checked and implemented.

Then, templates will be created, so they can be dropped in to the existing missions and used in new ones.

If new map areas become available, then they will need to be assessed and new frequencies allocated to cover the common airfields used by bombers with radio direction navigation systems.

In the meantime, I'm inviting comment and suggestions.



EDIT : 27-Oct-2014 : Added Oye-Plage at 318 kHz -- Dietrich

[Torric270]

PROPOSAL

The idea is to divide the frequency allocation into blocks to make it easier to get an overview of the system and to realise the allocation for frequencies for specific projects. As already explained above, the default frequency is 300 and this should never be used. That makes the default the "off" position, which will reduce confusion to new pilots and make it easier to track errors. Frequencies below 300 (i.e. 200-299) will be for mission specific frequency use. This means that any mission builder can use any frequency in this band, without worrying that he or she will be over-writing "official" frequencies and thus leading to confusion (or errors). Frequencies from 301-313 will be used for the actual Knickebein frequencies, as discussed with ATAG_Torric270. Although the frequencies are actually NDB band, the set use of these frequencies will be in alignment with the historical station numbers and thus lend to the authenticity of our missions.

For 314-340, I've made this the first large NDB (non-directional beacon) block. There are numerous gaps to allow for future new map regions or airfield use. Additionally, I've avoided placing nearby airfields on adjacent frequencies and adjacent frequencies on any given map should be pretty rare with this scheme. Again, we are trying to have something authentic, in the absence of a detailed (100 Hz-resolution) system and in the absence of historical frequency lists.

The airfields covered are from all the existing ATAG missions (Cherbourg, Sealion, Fall Rot, Hellfire Corner and Kanalkampf) and include all locations from where the Ju 88, He 111 and Br.20 bombers fly. These aircraft are the only types that currently have this level of LW navigation systems.

The X-Gerät frequencies are also mapped into the NDB range, even though these are typically much higher. Although, like the Knickebein system, this is anachronistic in this usage, it should nevertheless serve as a suitable compromise, for their implementation, given the limitations of the existing smiluator engine. I've done the same for the Y-Gerät frequencies. Like the Knickebein, these are grouped and the last number of the station matches the last number of the frequency for ease of learning.

Although it is tempting to use blocks fo frequencies for specific missions (e.g. 310-319 for Fall Rot), this is flawed in that the missions will slowly evolve and new ones will replace the old. Sooner or later you will need to click through to 580-589 to get to the "current mission". Additionally, there should be common frequencies for common locations between maps. In the proposal below, the K06 (Mont Violette) would be a common Knickebein site used in several missions (e.g Seeloewe, Hellfire Corner). Likewise for common airfields (e.g. Tramecourt). It does not make sense to put these onto separate channels for separate missions. It also provides set frequencies for new mission builders, who can rely on (in the future) well-established blocks.

As indicated in one of my earlier posts, I would recommend against implementing frequencies for Bernhard- or Erika-Systeme just yet.

See my previous posts for references.

Also note: tba = to be allocated (used to indicate a reserved location for future allocation)

---

200-299 = For mission-specific frequencies.

300 = Default ( DO NOT USE! )

301 = K01 / Klepp (just south of Stavanger), Norway
302 = K02 / Bredstedt (Stollberg), Germany
303 = K03 / Huisduinen/Julianadorp, Netherlands
304 = K04 / Kleve (Klever Berg), Germany
305 = K05 / Bergen op Zoom, Netherlands
306 = K06 / Mont Violette (Pas-de-Calais), France
307 = K07 / Greny (Haute-Normandie), France
308 = K08 / Mont Pinçon (Normandie), France
309 = K09 / Beaumont- Hague (Normandie), France
310 = K10 / Sortosville-en-Beaumont (Normandie), France
311 = K11 / St-Fiacre (Bretagne), France
312 = K12 / 8 km east of Lörrach, Germany
313 = K13 / Noto (Sicily), Italy

314 = NDB / Tramecourt, France
315 = NDB / (tba)
316 = NDB / (tba)
317 = NDB / Rouen-Boos, France
318 = NDB / (tba)
319 = NDB / (tba)
320 = NDB / Dieppe, France
321 = NDB / Theville, France
322 = NDB / (tba)
323 = NDB / Yvrench, France
324 = NDB / (tba)
325 = NDB / (tba)
326 = NDB / Barly, France
327 = NDB / Zutkerque, France
328 = NDB / (tba)
329 = NDB / (tba)
330 = NDB / Arras, France
331 = NDB / (tba)
332 = NDB / (tba)
333 = NDB / (tba)
334 = NDB / Ligescourt, France
335 = NDB / (tba)
336 = NDB / (tba)
337 = NDB / St.Omer-Clairmarais, France
338 = NDB / (tba)
339 = NDB / (tba)
340 = NDB / (tba)

341 = X1 / "Donau" Julianadorp bei Den Helder, Netherlands
342 = X2 / "Rhein" 62250 Audembert bei Cap Griz Nez, France
343 = X3 / "Oder" 62250 Audembert bei Cap Griz Nez, France
344 = X4 / "Elbe" 62250 Audembert bei Cap Griz Nez, France
345 = X5 / "Weser" Bucht von Ecalgrain am Cap de la Hague, France
346 = X6 / "Spree" Bucht von Ecalgrain am Cap de la Hague, France
347 = X7 / "Isar" Bucht von Ecalgrain am Cap de la Hague, France

348 = NDB / (tba)
349 = NDB / (tba)
350 = NDB / (tba)

351 = Y1 / 4021 Ullandhaug, Norway
352 = Y2 / "Berta", 59670 Cassel, France
353 = Y3 / "Cicero", 76450 Veulettes-sur-Mer, France
354 = Y4 / "Dora", 76450 Saint-Martin-aux-Buneaux, France
355 = Y5 / (unknown location, tba)
356 = Y6 / "Gustav", 62132 Boursin, France
357 = Y7 / "Anton", 50440 Jobourg, France
358 = Y8 / "Friedrich", La Feuille (SSW Morlaix), France
359 = Y9 / 76390 Aumale, France

360+ = (tba)

---

So, the next step... I have latitude/longitude coordinates for the K/X/Y series of beams, but these need to be converted into the FMB system and then checked to ensure they do not clash with existing scenery. Airfield NDBs are easier, but still this will need to be checked and implemented.

Then, templates will be created, so they can be dropped in to the existing missions and used in new ones.

If new map areas become available, then they will need to be assessed and new frequencies allocated to cover the common airfields used by bombers with radio direction navigation systems.

In the meantime, I'm inviting comment and suggestions.

Look great! Thanks for the work!

It is definitely something to work towards to get it historically accurate. But for now, for ease of training purposes, are there 2 locations in the first set that are close to Oye Plage, Bolougne area? If so, I would say keep the locations on the airfields for now and I will give them their proper frequency.

The reason for this is that we need the exact location of the beacons to properly use the nav tools in the game to get a proper course to/from a beacon. Since there are no icons on in MP, it would be very difficult to draw a course (while not zoomed in) exactly over a beacon unless it was on a very visible and easily picked out place on the map.

Hopefully once we have proof of concept and we get better at using the system we could then reset the beacons to their historically accurate location.

[xvii-Dietrich]

Look great! Thanks for the work!

It is definitely something to work towards to get it historically accurate. But for now, for ease of training purposes, are there 2 locations in the first set that are close to Oye Plage, Bolougne area? If so, I would say keep the locations on the airfields for now and I will give them their proper frequency.

The reason for this is that we need the exact location of the beacons to properly use the nav tools in the game to get a proper course to/from a beacon. Since there are no icons on in MP, it would be very difficult to draw a course (while not zoomed in) exactly over a beacon unless it was on a very visible and easily picked out place on the map.

Hopefully once we have proof of concept and we get better at using the system we could then reset the beacons to their historically accurate location.

The closest Knickebein to Oye-Plage is K06 (Mont Violets, Landaque). It is on the map here...

https://www.google.com/maps/place/50...!3m1!1s0x0:0x0


If we need two, then we can either:

a) use K06 with, say, K07 (near Dieppe), or

b) put an NDB specifically at Oye-Plage (with, say, freq. 318) and use it in conjunction with K06, or

c) allocate two NDBs specifically for Oye-Plage region (in which case we'll bump a frequency to fit it in.... I am keen to leave space for future expansion, as this example is demonstrating).

[Torric270]

The closest Knickebein to Oye-Plage is K06 (Mont Violets, Landaque). It is on the map here...

https://www.google.com/maps/place/50...!3m1!1s0x0:0x0


If we need two, then we can either:

a) use K06 with, say, K07 (near Dieppe), or

b) put an NDB specifically at Oye-Plage (with, say, freq. 318) and use it in conjunction with K06, or

c) allocate two NDBs specifically for Oye-Plage region (in which case we'll bump a frequency to fit it in.... I am keen to leave space for future expansion, as this example is demonstrating).

I went with b) as Boulogne is right next to K06 and gave Oye-Plage 318. Tramecourt 314 and Arras 330. This will give us the 2 beacons far enough away from each other for nav aids and blind bombing and 2 airfields with 2 back-ups.

New code for Hellfire Corner, Sealion, or both:

[Stationary]
  Static3 Stationary.RadioBeacon.GenericLongRangeMast de 351416.91 145302.81 -100.00 /radioFreq 330
  Static1 Stationary.RadioBeacon.GenericLongRangeMast de 306486.00 160806.53 270.00 /radioFreq 314
  Static2 Stationary.RadioBeacon.GenericLongRangeMast de 264175.22 186227.70 270.00 /radioFreq 306
  Static0 Stationary.RadioBeacon.GenericLongRangeMast de 296345.38 217413.20 -55.00 /radioFreq 318

Briefing:

Axis:

Bombers:

Beam Navigation:

There are 4 non directional beacons for navigational aids and for practicing night bombing. Tramecourt (channel 314): Boulogne (channel 306): Oye-Plage (channel 318): and Arras (channel 330)

[xvii-Dietrich]

Thanks Toric. I've added Oye-Plage into the frequency list at 318 for future reference. Once things have stabilised, and we have all the templates done, perhaps we could create a new thread with the "master list" and references. But, for now, we'll continue using this one.

I'm now working on the coordinates for the Knickebein chain. I've got most of them, but there are a still a couple missing. Will post these up soon.

[LuseKofte]

This will make my day, thank you for your effort