Beam Navigation

[Torric270]

To any current and/or future MP mission builders:

There has been a recent uptick in talk about beam navigation and the Lorenz blind landing system for German and Italian bombers so I am writing this to ask the MP mission builders if you could upgrade the current missions to include a basic beam navigation system. This would be a very easy upgrade as it consists of only adding a few Non directional beacons and giving each one a different channel (default 300)

Adding these would add another dimension for bomber pilots. Not only would it give us the ability to navigate to and from our airbases, but for those interested in night bombing, it would give them the ability to do "blind" bombing runs using 2 beacons. See my demo here: http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.co...ead.php?t=8840

For the current missions: (we need at least 2: Please give exact locations.)

Possible sites.

Relinquish: Add a NDB to Dieppe and Rouen, for emergency landings add a beacon to Le Havre. (Channels 300, 301, 302)

Kanalkampf: Theville and Le Havre, with one additional one at Caen. (Channels 300, 301, 302)

Sealion: Boulougne and Oye Plage, with extra ones at Tramecourt and Arras. (Channels 300, 301, 302, 303)

Hellfire Corner: Same as Sealion.

Thank you for all the work you do!

[III./ZG76_Saipan]

can hardly wait. can the NBDs be destroyed but reds?

[Torric270]

can hardly wait. can the NBDs be destroyed but reds?

I will have to test it to see if they can be destroyed.

[Torric270]

can hardly wait. can the NBDs be destroyed but reds?

I tested it in SP and dropped 32 bombs on it, it smoked for a little while, but the tower did not break, nor did I loose a signal. I am not a mission maker, so I don't know if something could be added to make it destroyable.

[xvii-Dietrich]

Wow. Great thinking, Torric. Yes, I would love to see this sort of thing in the missions.

I will do some experiments and see what I can come up with regarding "destroyable beacons".

Possible sites.

Relinquish: Add a NDB to Dieppe and Rouen, for emergency landings add a beacon to Le Havre. (Channels 300, 301, 302)

Kanalkampf: Theville and Le Havre, with one additional one at Caen. (Channels 300, 301, 302)

Sealion: Boulougne and Oye Plage, with extra ones at Tramecourt and Arras. (Channels 300, 301, 302, 303)

Hellfire Corner: Same as Sealion.

A suggestion on this... allocate a fixed channel to each location. So we know, for instance, that 301 is always Tramecourt. This means that some missions will have it, others not. But if Tramecourt is always the same, and nothing else uses that channel, it will make it a lot easier for others to learn the system.

[Torric270]

Wow. Great thinking, Torric. Yes, I would love to see this sort of thing in the missions.

I will do some experiments and see what I can come up with regarding "destroyable beacons".




A suggestion on this... allocate a fixed channel to each location. So we know, for instance, that 301 is always Tramecourt. This means that some missions will have it, others not. But if Tramecourt is always the same, and nothing else uses that channel, it will make it a lot easier for others to learn the system.

Good idea

[ATAG_Ezzie]

I'm currently building the airfields for a MP mission so will add these to the LW bomber fields in England and see if I can get them to work.

Ezzie

[Torric270]

I'm currently building the airfields for a MP mission so will add these to the LW bomber fields in England and see if I can get them to work.

Ezzie

Thanks!

Just double checking; are the bombers taking off in England, or bombing airfields in England?

[ATAG_Ezzie]

Taking off from airfields in England and bombing tgts located in England (tank parks , airfields at this stage). I might include a rear LW bomber base in France for those seeking uber long flights and/or a base to use if the English LW bomber bases are destroyed by the RAF.

Would this work for you re ndbs etc?

[♣_Spiritus_♣]

A suggestion on this... allocate a fixed channel to each location. So we know, for instance, that 301 is always Tramecourt. This means that some missions will have it, others not. But if Tramecourt is always the same, and nothing else uses that channel, it will make it a lot easier for others to learn the system.

I think someone should make a list of all the airfields and assign them a channel and sticky it before things get crazy. Great idea Dietrich and Torric.

I won't be able to do this addition to Relinquish but there are a few people out there that can make the change.

[xvii-Dietrich]

I think someone should make a list of all the airfields and assign them a channel and sticky it before things get crazy.

I've been working on this and have been doing a lot of experiments with Torric's great missions and some of my own navigation and radio-based mission setups.

At present, IL-2:Cliffs-of-Dover models a radio sideband from 200 - 600 kHz (kilohertz), in 1 kHz steps. These 1 kHz steps are the so-called frequency "channels". The default channel is 300. This is what is selected by default when you start the game. Using mapped keys, you can then decrement or increment this (down to 200 or up to 600). Radio frequencies can be set arbitrarily



Here is my suggestions so far...


Recommendation 1 : The default channel is never used.

That is, we should never use the 300 kHz default channel. Thus, the default is that this system is switched off. There are several motivations for this. Firstly, a extra spinning dial on the cockpit is a confusion to new players who are already bewildered by the plethora of instruments. Secondly, it is a good "catch" for mission errors (i.e. if you never use it, but somehow you see a signal there, it indicates that something was overlooked during the mission building).


Recommendation 2 : Channels are not too far away from 300

Clicking (or holding) the increment key to get the frequency to go all the way up to 600 takes quite a while. Therefore, it is important that we don't make the channels vary too far from the default (just for bomber pilots' sanity... if there is such a thing). Imagine the angst if you are setting two frequencies and one is 599 and the other is 211. Ouch.


Recommendation 3 : The standard channels are from 301 upwards

The idea that standard locations and standard airfields have a set of standard channels will let players learn them and thus make them easier to deal with. In the same way that we use a standard "battle grid" for many of our missions, we should do the same for frequencies.


Recommendation 4 : Channels 299 and below are mission specific

Some missions will have specific frequencies that might be very particular to a given mission. Imagine a hypothetical mission where the Luftwaffe are flying out of some obscure airbase. You will want a close-to-hand frequency, but it won't be a standard one. On the other hand you don't want to have to click past all the myriad of "standard" channels to get to it. Also, players will learn that 200 - 299 are "special" and that they are non-standard. It also means that other servers can make use of their own systems in this range with just as much convenience as "standard-missions" have in going above it.


Recommendation 5 : We leave some gaps in the standard sequence

What if we fill up the standard set, but find that we missed and important one? Or let's imagine a future world with a new map that is not the English Channel region. It would be good to have some easy-to-get-to frequencies for this new area. Additionally, frequencies were rarely adjacent, in order to prevent radio confusion (especially on poorly tuned equipment). It will have a much more realistic feel if channels are scattered out little a bit, rather than simply 301, 302, 303, etc..



I am in the process of drafting a list of common bomber airfields as well as historical transmitter locations used for night-bombing during the Blitz. I'm also checking a lot of historical references to try to get this as accurate as we can. I'd be glad to work with Torric on this (thus the International Radio Consultative Committee!) and we can coordinate with various bomber groups to ensure we get things covered.

If anyone has any suggestions, comments or feedback, please let me know.


xvii-Dietrich
International Radio Consultative Committee (CCIR)

[1lokos]

Dietrich,

Nice ideas.

[Torric270]

Taking off from airfields in England and bombing tgts located in England (tank parks , airfields at this stage). I might include a rear LW bomber base in France for those seeking uber long flights and/or a base to use if the English LW bomber bases are destroyed by the RAF.

Would this work for you re ndbs etc?

Yep, that will work. For blind bombing we need at least 2 beacons fairly far apart that can be anywhere. I just suggested putting them on airfields to kill 2 birds with one stone. One of them could even be back in France.

[Torric270]

I've been working on this and have been doing a lot of experiments with Torric's great missions and some of my own navigation and radio-based mission setups.

At present, IL-2:Cliffs-of-Dover models a radio sideband from 200 - 600 kHz (kilohertz), in 1 kHz steps. These 1 kHz steps are the so-called frequency "channels". The default channel is 300. This is what is selected by default when you start the game. Using mapped keys, you can then decrement or increment this (down to 200 or up to 600). Radio frequencies can be set arbitrarily



Here is my suggestions so far...


Recommendation 1 : The default channel is never used.

That is, we should never use the 300 kHz default channel. Thus, the default is that this system is switched off. There are several motivations for this. Firstly, a extra spinning dial on the cockpit is a confusion to new players who are already bewildered by the plethora of instruments. Secondly, it is a good "catch" for mission errors (i.e. if you never use it, but somehow you see a signal there, it indicates that something was overlooked during the mission building).


Recommendation 2 : Channels are not too far away from 300

Clicking (or holding) the increment key to get the frequency to go all the way up to 600 takes quite a while. Therefore, it is important that we don't make the channels vary too far from the default (just for bomber pilots' sanity... if there is such a thing). Imagine the angst if you are setting two frequencies and one is 599 and the other is 211. Ouch.


Recommendation 3 : The standard channels are from 301 upwards

The idea that standard locations and standard airfields have a set of standard channels will let players learn them and thus make them easier to deal with. In the same way that we use a standard "battle grid" for many of our missions, we should do the same for frequencies.


Recommendation 4 : Channels 299 and below are mission specific

Some missions will have specific frequencies that might be very particular to a given mission. Imagine a hypothetical mission where the Luftwaffe are flying out of some obscure airbase. You will want a close-to-hand frequency, but it won't be a standard one. On the other hand you don't want to have to click past all the myriad of "standard" channels to get to it. Also, players will learn that 200 - 299 are "special" and that they are non-standard. It also means that other servers can make use of their own systems in this range with just as much convenience as "standard-missions" have in going above it.


Recommendation 5 : We leave some gaps in the standard sequence

What if we fill up the standard set, but find that we missed and important one? Or let's imagine a future world with a new map that is not the English Channel region. It would be good to have some easy-to-get-to frequencies for this new area. Additionally, frequencies were rarely adjacent, in order to prevent radio confusion (especially on poorly tuned equipment). It will have a much more realistic feel if channels are scattered out little a bit, rather than simply 301, 302, 303, etc..



I am in the process of drafting a list of common bomber airfields as well as historical transmitter locations used for night-bombing during the Blitz. I'm also checking a lot of historical references to try to get this as accurate as we can. I'd be glad to work with Torric on this (thus the International Radio Consultative Committee!) and we can coordinate with various bomber groups to ensure we get things covered.

If anyone has any suggestions, comments or feedback, please let me know.


xvii-Dietrich
International Radio Consultative Committee (CCIR)

Looks good, I say run with it. I would keep it simple at first with 3 or 4 beacons (per mission) to start with so that they can easily be added to the current missions.

For future missions, the sky is the limit.

[9./JG52 Hans Gruber]

I don't have time to build this from scratch into my missions but if somebody wants to send me the relevant bits to add into the .mis file I will copy/paste it in. Also, work up some blurb to add to the briefing.

[Torric270]

I don't have time to build this from scratch into my missions but if somebody wants to send me the relevant bits to add into the .mis file I will copy/paste it in. Also, work up some blurb to add to the briefing.

Short and sweet to get the ball rolling: Hopefully this will be an easy copy and paste.

For Sealion, Hellfire, or both:

[Stationary]
  Static3 Stationary.RadioBeacon.GenericLongRangeMast de 351416.91 145302.81 -100.00 /radioFreq 304
  Static1 Stationary.RadioBeacon.GenericLongRangeMast de 306486.00 160806.53 270.00 /radioFreq 301
  Static2 Stationary.RadioBeacon.GenericLongRangeMast de 264175.22 186227.70 270.00 /radioFreq 302
  Static0 Stationary.RadioBeacon.GenericLongRangeMast de 296345.38 217413.20 -55.00 /radioFreq 303

Briefing:

Axis:

Bombers:

Beam Navigation:

There are 4 non directional beacons at Tramecourt (channel 301): Boulogne (channel 302): Oye-Plage (channel 303): and Arras (channel 304) for navigational aids and for practicing night bombing.

@Dietrich: Hopefully this work fit into the template you are working on, if not, and this test goes well, hopefully we can edit it later.

[xvii-Dietrich]

There are 4 non directional beacons at Tramecourt (channel 301): Boulogne (channel 302): Oye-Plage (channel 303): and Arras (channel 304) for navigational aids and for practicing night bombing.

@Dietrich: Hopefully this work fit into the template you are working on, if not, and this test goes well, hopefully we can edit it later.

That should be fine for letting builders at least start testing. We might need to tweak the frequency allocations, but I think this is a straight-forward exercise. In any case, I should have the full list completed in the next day or so and then I can post it up for review.

[LuseKofte]

This is the best ever news since I remember what christmas was like. I have already bindings on my panel for this.
Many thanks, for this, I used it in IL2 missions and campaigns and it is really fun to fly

[xvii-Dietrich]

In addition to the work, I've already done on this, I've now completed the research on navigational aids used by the Luftwaffe during WWII. At this stage, I'm looking at the primary navigation systems, as there were a lot of prototype and trial systems. However, five major, multi-site installations were made, which are Knickebein, X, Y, Bernhard and Erika. I am fully aware that not all of these system apply to our area, and that some were in far-off locations well off the English Channel maps. However, I wish to ensure that I have not overlooked anything and I am also allowing for contingency for future expansion (if that ever becomes an option). Additionally, I am also aware that these systems did not necessarily exist in 1940. Again, I am being comprehensive and I am allowing for the possibility of other years. Only some of them will be recommended for implementation, and I will outline the reasons for/against below.

The following is the list of known stations of the different systems. I have tried to include general areas to give everyone and idea of where these places are. Although the list looks very long, in reality there will only be 4-5 included in any given area. What I plan to do is to make a "mission add-in" (not sure if that is the correct terminology for it), which will allow mission builders to include the "standard set" for a given area. You can then edit them down.

These systems are for bombing. In other words, they allow cross-referencing to determine when you are over a target position. These are not airfield navigation (that's later... see below).



Knickebein

This is the modified version of the Lorenz system and was used to cross-reference locations. This is the primary system that we need to implement for the Battle-of-Britain (these the transmitters that correspond to the systems implement in the aircraft).

http://www.geocities.ws/pentagon/283...nickebein.html
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knickebein_%28Funkfeuer%29
http://www.geschichtsspuren.de/index...sk=1&Itemid=63

K01 - Klepp (just south of Stavanger), Norway
K02 - Bredstedt (Stollberg), Germany
K03 - Huisduinen/Julianadorp, Netherlands
K04 - Kleve (Klever Berg), Germany
K05 - Bergen op Zoom, Netherlands
K06 - Mont Violette (Pas-de-Calais), France
K07 - Greny (Haute-Normandie), France
K08 - Mont Pinçon (Normandie), France
K09 - Beaumont- Hague (Normandie), France
K10 - Sortosville-en-Beaumont (Normandie), France
K11 - St-Fiacre (Bretagne), France
K12 - 8 km east of Lörrach, Germany
K13 - Noto (Sicily), Italy


X-Gerät

This is an improved version, using a triple signal to determine bomb dropping time, using three preparatory cross signals.

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/X-Verfahren
http://www.geschichtsspuren.de/index...sk=1&Itemid=63

X1 - "Donau" Julianadorp bei Den Helder, Netherlands
X2 - "Rhein" 62250 Audembert bei Cap Griz Nez, France
X3 - "Oder" 62250 Audembert bei Cap Griz Nez, France
X4 - "Elbe" 62250 Audembert bei Cap Griz Nez, France
X5 - "Weser" Bucht von Ecalgrain am Cap de la Hague, France
X6 - "Spree" Bucht von Ecalgrain am Cap de la Hague, France
X7 - "Isar" Bucht von Ecalgrain am Cap de la Hague, France


Y-Gerät

This is a single-beam system developed in 1941. Although the mechanism for this is not modelled directly in IL2:Cliffs-of-Dover, they could still be used as additional transmitter sites. However, I would suggest that they are not implemented at this stage.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y-Ger%C3%A4t
http://www.geschichtsspuren.de/index...sk=1&Itemid=63

Y1 - 4021 Ullandhaug, Norway
Y2 - "Berta", 59670 Cassel, France
Y3 - "Cicero", 76450 Veulettes-sur-Mer, France
Y4 - "Dora", 76450 Saint-Martin-aux-Buneaux, France
Y6 - "Gustav", 62132 Boursin, France
Y7 - "Anton", 50440 Jobourg, France
Y8 - "Friedrich", La Feuille (SSW Morlaix), France
Y9 - 76390 Aumale, France


Bernhard-System

Likewise, this system uses a nulling principle to allow the navigator to determine the position based on this and the time between the peak reception. This allowed determination of location. This mechanism was first introduced in 1941 and is not in IL2:Cliffs-of-Dover. Like the Y-Gerät, I would suggest that these stations are not implemented at this stage.

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernhard_%28Funkfeuer%29
http://www.nonstopsystems.com/radio/...ell-statns.htm
http://www.geschichtsspuren.de/index...sk=1&Itemid=63

Be-0 Glau/Trebbin
Be-1 (unknown)
Be-2 Mt.-St.-Michel-de-Braspart
Be-3 Mt.-Michel-Mt.-Mercure/Pouzauges (?)
Be-4 Le-Bois-Julien
Be-5 Favières (?)
Be-6 Marlemont
Be-7 La Pernelle
Be-8 Schoorl/Bergen
Be-9 Bredstedt
Be-10 Hundborg/Thisted
Be-11 Trzebnica/Trebnitz
Be-12 Nevid/Plzen
Be-13 Venusberg/Aidlingen (?)
Be-14 Arcachon/Teste-de-Buch (-1944)
Be-14 Buke (1945)
Be-15 Szymbark/Bytów
Be-16 Sonnenberg/Hornstein


Erika-System

This is a hyperbolic navigation system developed in 1941. Like the Bernhard system, the mechanism for it is not in IL2:Cliffs-of-Dover. Of course, I would similarly suggest that these stations are not implemented at this stage.

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erika_%28Funkfeuer%29
http://www.geschichtsspuren.de/index.php?typ=13

Erika 1 - 62224 Equihen-Plage, France
Erika 2 - 50840 Saint-Pierre-Eglise, France
Erika 3 - 83737 Irschenberg, Germany
Erika 4 - 3441 Flachberg, Austria


Airfields

I have been through all the existing ATAG missions (Cherbourg, Sealion, Fall Rot, Helfire Corner and Kanalkampf) and have identified the airfields from where the Ju 88, He 111 and Br.20 bombers fly. These aircraft are the only types that currently have this level of LW navigation systems. These will need locator beacons for the Lorenz system, allowing return paths from arbitrary locations and instrument landings using the Lorenz-Instrumentenlandesystem.

Arras
Barly
Dieppe
Ligescourt
Rouen-Boos
St.Omer-Clairmarais
Theville
Tramecourt
Yvrench
Zutkerque



Other references

From my bookmarks and other sites I found during the searches, I have some other references which might be of interest to the enthusiasts.

http://www.cdvandt.org/navigational_aids.htm
http://www.cdvandt.org/Navigati.pdf
http://www.vectorsite.net/ttwiz.html
http://www.vectorsite.net/ttwiz_07.html
http://www.radarworld.org/radarwar.pdf
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Beams
http://www.deutschesatlantikwallarch...ermany/rd_.htm
http://www.nonstopsystems.com/radio/pdf-hell/
http://www.nonstopsystems.com/radio/...hrverf-300.pdf
http://www.nonstopsystems.com/radio/...ell-statns.htm
http://www.geocities.ws/pentagon/283...nickebein.html
http://www.cvni.net/radio/nsnl/nsnl1...l124ww2de.html


Nest step

The next thing I will do is assess the level of frequency coverage that we will need and consider the implementations that would be appropriate, based on the existing missions and some future possibilities. I will then determined an allocation set to match the recommendations that I made earlier. This will result in a comprehensive list, which I will post up next. Then, I can provide the "mission add-ins" for the the existing missions and some templates for anyone start to build a new mission.

Anyway, that's where I'm up to at the moment, and I feel it is important to let other comment at each step. So, if you have feedback, please let me know. S!

[Torric270]

In addition to the work, I've already done on this, I've now completed the research on navigational aids used by the Luftwaffe during WWII. At this stage, I'm looking at the primary navigation systems, as there were a lot of prototype and trial systems. However, five major, multi-site installations were made, which are Knickebein, X, Y, Bernhard and Erika. I am fully aware that not all of these system apply to our area, and that some were in far-off locations well off the English Channel maps. However, I wish to ensure that I have not overlooked anything and I am also allowing for contingency for future expansion (if that ever becomes an option). Additionally, I am also aware that these systems did not necessarily exist in 1940. Again, I am being comprehensive and I am allowing for the possibility of other years. Only some of them will be recommended for implementation, and I will outline the reasons for/against below.

The following is the list of known stations of the different systems. I have tried to include general areas to give everyone and idea of where these places are. Although the list looks very long, in reality there will only be 4-5 included in any given area. What I plan to do is to make a "mission add-in" (not sure if that is the correct terminology for it), which will allow mission builders to include the "standard set" for a given area. You can then edit them down.

These systems are for bombing. In other words, they allow cross-referencing to determine when you are over a target position. These are not airfield navigation (that's later... see below).



Knickebein

This is the modified version of the Lorenz system and was used to cross-reference locations. This is the primary system that we need to implement for the Battle-of-Britain (these the transmitters that correspond to the systems implement in the aircraft).

http://www.geocities.ws/pentagon/283...nickebein.html
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knickebein_%28Funkfeuer%29
http://www.geschichtsspuren.de/index...sk=1&Itemid=63

K01 - Klepp (just south of Stavanger), Norway
K02 - Bredstedt (Stollberg), Germany
K03 - Huisduinen/Julianadorp, Netherlands
K04 - Kleve (Klever Berg), Germany
K05 - Bergen op Zoom, Netherlands
K06 - Mont Violette (Pas-de-Calais), France
K07 - Greny (Haute-Normandie), France
K08 - Mont Pinçon (Normandie), France
K09 - Beaumont- Hague (Normandie), France
K10 - Sortosville-en-Beaumont (Normandie), France
K11 - St-Fiacre (Bretagne), France
K12 - 8 km east of Lörrach, Germany
K13 - Noto (Sicily), Italy


X-Gerät

This is an improved version, using a triple signal to determine bomb dropping time, using three preparatory cross signals.

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/X-Verfahren
http://www.geschichtsspuren.de/index...sk=1&Itemid=63

X1 - "Donau" Julianadorp bei Den Helder, Netherlands
X2 - "Rhein" 62250 Audembert bei Cap Griz Nez, France
X3 - "Oder" 62250 Audembert bei Cap Griz Nez, France
X4 - "Elbe" 62250 Audembert bei Cap Griz Nez, France
X5 - "Weser" Bucht von Ecalgrain am Cap de la Hague, France
X6 - "Spree" Bucht von Ecalgrain am Cap de la Hague, France
X7 - "Isar" Bucht von Ecalgrain am Cap de la Hague, France


Y-Gerät

This is a single-beam system developed in 1941. Although the mechanism for this is not modelled directly in IL2:Cliffs-of-Dover, they could still be used as additional transmitter sites. However, I would suggest that they are not implemented at this stage.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y-Ger%C3%A4t
http://www.geschichtsspuren.de/index...sk=1&Itemid=63

Y1 - 4021 Ullandhaug, Norway
Y2 - "Berta", 59670 Cassel, France
Y3 - "Cicero", 76450 Veulettes-sur-Mer, France
Y4 - "Dora", 76450 Saint-Martin-aux-Buneaux, France
Y6 - "Gustav", 62132 Boursin, France
Y7 - "Anton", 50440 Jobourg, France
Y8 - "Friedrich", La Feuille (SSW Morlaix), France
Y9 - 76390 Aumale, France


Bernhard-System

Likewise, this system uses a nulling principle to allow the navigator to determine the position based on this and the time between the peak reception. This allowed determination of location. This mechanism was first introduced in 1941 and is not in IL2:Cliffs-of-Dover. Like the Y-Gerät, I would suggest that these stations are not implemented at this stage.

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernhard_%28Funkfeuer%29
http://www.nonstopsystems.com/radio/...ell-statns.htm
http://www.geschichtsspuren.de/index...sk=1&Itemid=63

Be-0 Glau/Trebbin
Be-1 (unknown)
Be-2 Mt.-St.-Michel-de-Braspart
Be-3 Mt.-Michel-Mt.-Mercure/Pouzauges (?)
Be-4 Le-Bois-Julien
Be-5 Favières (?)
Be-6 Marlemont
Be-7 La Pernelle
Be-8 Schoorl/Bergen
Be-9 Bredstedt
Be-10 Hundborg/Thisted
Be-11 Trzebnica/Trebnitz
Be-12 Nevid/Plzen
Be-13 Venusberg/Aidlingen (?)
Be-14 Arcachon/Teste-de-Buch (-1944)
Be-14 Buke (1945)
Be-15 Szymbark/Bytów
Be-16 Sonnenberg/Hornstein


Erika-System

This is a hyperbolic navigation system developed in 1941. Like the Bernhard system, the mechanism for it is not in IL2:Cliffs-of-Dover. Of course, I would similarly suggest that these stations are not implemented at this stage.

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erika_%28Funkfeuer%29
http://www.geschichtsspuren.de/index.php?typ=13

Erika 1 - 62224 Equihen-Plage, France
Erika 2 - 50840 Saint-Pierre-Eglise, France
Erika 3 - 83737 Irschenberg, Germany
Erika 4 - 3441 Flachberg, Austria


Airfields

I have been through all the existing ATAG missions (Cherbourg, Sealion, Fall Rot, Helfire Corner and Kanalkampf) and have identified the airfields from where the Ju 88, He 111 and Br.20 bombers fly. These aircraft are the only types that currently have this level of LW navigation systems. These will need locator beacons for the Lorenz system, allowing return paths from arbitrary locations and instrument landings using the Lorenz-Instrumentenlandesystem.

Arras
Barly
Dieppe
Ligescourt
Rouen-Boos
St.Omer-Clairmarais
Theville
Tramecourt
Yvrench
Zutkerque



Other references

From my bookmarks and other sites I found during the searches, I have some other references which might be of interest to the enthusiasts.

http://www.cdvandt.org/navigational_aids.htm
http://www.cdvandt.org/Navigati.pdf
http://www.vectorsite.net/ttwiz.html
http://www.vectorsite.net/ttwiz_07.html
http://www.radarworld.org/radarwar.pdf
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Beams
http://www.deutschesatlantikwallarch...ermany/rd_.htm
http://www.nonstopsystems.com/radio/pdf-hell/
http://www.nonstopsystems.com/radio/...hrverf-300.pdf
http://www.nonstopsystems.com/radio/...ell-statns.htm
http://www.geocities.ws/pentagon/283...nickebein.html
http://www.cvni.net/radio/nsnl/nsnl1...l124ww2de.html


Nest step

The next thing I will do is assess the level of frequency coverage that we will need and consider the implementations that would be appropriate, based on the existing missions and some future possibilities. I will then determined an allocation set to match the recommendations that I made earlier. This will result in a comprehensive list, which I will post up next. Then, I can provide the "mission add-ins" for the the existing missions and some templates for anyone start to build a new mission.

Anyway, that's where I'm up to at the moment, and I feel it is important to let other comment at each step. So, if you have feedback, please let me know. S!

Great work!

The NDB could cover all of the "bombing" beacons.

The downside is the Lorenz system. The SBA Hat and the inner/outer beacons that you can add to it just do not have the power for it to work properly. Also the Br20 does not have the Lorenz gauge and cannot benefit from it, but the stuka and bf-110 do. The way around it is to use more NDBs or use airfield beacons. They work like NDBs except they are shorter, so I would assume that they have less of a range (I have not tested that yet).

So all in all for the future, as I see it at the moment, is to see where, if any, historical locations for the bombing beacons would be and have at least 2 of those, and then add the appropriate number of airfield beacons and or NDBs.

[1lokos]

Seems Lorenz dont work in multiplayer.

http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.co...ghlight=lorenz
http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.co...l=1#post138505

[xvii-Dietrich]

The NDB could cover all of the "bombing" beacons.

The downside is the Lorenz system. The SBA Hat and the inner/outer beacons that you can add to it just do not have the power for it to work properly. Also the Br20 does not have the Lorenz gauge and cannot benefit from it, but the stuka and bf-110 do. The way around it is to use more NDBs or use airfield beacons. They work like NDBs except they are shorter, so I would assume that they have less of a range (I have not tested that yet).

So all in all for the future, as I see it at the moment, is to see where, if any, historical locations for the bombing beacons would be and have at least 2 of those, and then add the appropriate number of airfield beacons and or NDBs.

Good points.

Given the limitations, I could see players using NDBs as a way to set a back-course and then fly out along that. It would be somewhat inaccurate, but it would allow a player to navigate onto an outbound course that would direct him or her over an enemy target.

This presents some other issues. The NDB "frequencies" implemented in the game are longwave frequencies. Some more research indicates that the range for these are 200-527 kHz, although world-wide systems extend beyond this (190-1750 kHz). However, I cannot find historical frequency lists (only modern ones), so we may be limited in whether we choose historical frequencies.

Additionally, the Knickebein seems to use this longwave as well (I had originally thought they were Knickebein sideband channels, but I suspect now I was wrong on this. Sorry.). What I am wondering is if there is an additional system in the sim? Personally, I don't think so, but I'll air the question just in case.

If Lorenz (28-35 MHz) and Knickebein (30-33 MHz) usage in IL2:CoD are arbitrary, then frequency allocation is also arbitrary for us. In that case, we could consider using an NDB at every airfield (plus the Knickebein locations for historical "flavour"). There are certainly a LOT of airfields implemented. However, if we have a template that we drop in to a mission, that would get them implemented pretty quickly overall, and players would simply choose their frequency from a list.

There are thus two approaches.

1. For the Knickebein, there are five locations in France. However, I would reserve a block for all Knickebein locations just for completeness. Perhaps 401-413 for K01 to K13? Thinking ahead, in case we ever get a new map, we could then expand the Knickebein system up into the 400s, but still leaving space for the airfields. These are in the 300s, and we implement the full list (with spaces for possible new maps). This is good is we want to make airfield (i.e. return beacons) easy to access.

2. We put Knickebein on the 301-313 range. This will encourage players to use these first and then resort to airfields if they need triangulation. This is probably my preferred approach, but I can see merits both ways.

[92 Sqn. Philstyle (QJ-P)]

Here is a Template that is used on SoW server. There are 5 beacons, placed at locations across the entire french landmass at recognizable points on the map. The allow for outbound and inbound navigation, especially when using two for triangulation. Click the image below to enbiggen.
--
LW Beacons.png
--

[Torric270]

Good points.

Given the limitations, I could see players using NDBs as a way to set a back-course and then fly out along that. It would be somewhat inaccurate, but it would allow a player to navigate onto an outbound course that would direct him or her over an enemy target.

This presents some other issues. The NDB "frequencies" implemented in the game are longwave frequencies. Some more research indicates that the range for these are 200-527 kHz, although world-wide systems extend beyond this (190-1750 kHz). However, I cannot find historical frequency lists (only modern ones), so we may be limited in whether we choose historical frequencies.

Additionally, the Knickebein seems to use this longwave as well (I had originally thought they were Knickebein sideband channels, but I suspect now I was wrong on this. Sorry.). What I am wondering is if there is an additional system in the sim? Personally, I don't think so, but I'll air the question just in case.

If Lorenz (28-35 MHz) and Knickebein (30-33 MHz) usage in IL2:CoD are arbitrary, then frequency allocation is also arbitrary for us. In that case, we could consider using an NDB at every airfield (plus the Knickebein locations for historical "flavour"). There are certainly a LOT of airfields implemented. However, if we have a template that we drop in to a mission, that would get them implemented pretty quickly overall, and players would simply choose their frequency from a list.

There are thus two approaches.

1. For the Knickebein, there are five locations in France. However, I would reserve a block for all Knickebein locations just for completeness. Perhaps 401-413 for K01 to K13? Thinking ahead, in case we ever get a new map, we could then expand the Knickebein system up into the 400s, but still leaving space for the airfields. These are in the 300s, and we implement the full list (with spaces for possible new maps). This is good is we want to make airfield (i.e. return beacons) easy to access.

2. We put Knickebein on the 301-313 range. This will encourage players to use these first and then resort to airfields if they need triangulation. This is probably my preferred approach, but I can see merits both ways.

Using the beacons for an outbound course used in concert with the nav tools, I find them pretty darn accurate, but they take practice. For getting some screenshots I flew from a quick mission with the NDBs I posted earlier in this thread. I flew from Tramecourt to Boulogne, then turned towards Lympne picking up the outbound radial of 326. Pretty soon I was at right at Lympne.

#2. I like number 2, but maybe in a mission set, so pilots could just add one more to the freq to get the next beacon. I.E. 301-305; 311-315 etc. and have a template that has them all in named groups. "Fall Rotte" 321-325. and their locations.

Anyway this can be settled at a later date. First things first, we need to get them into at least one mission so we can see how it goes.

[Torric270]

Here is a Template that is used on SoW server. There are 5 beacons, placed at locations across the entire french landmass at recognizable points on the map. The allow for outbound and inbound navigation, especially when using two for triangulation. Click the image below to enbiggen.
--
LW Beacons.png
--

Thanks Phil!.

Are the beacons used very often, and how do they like them?

[ATAG_Ezzie]

Watching the thread with interest - have almost finished all my LW bases in England for my MP mission. Any advice on what freqs i should use? I'm guessing i should use different freqs than what you are proposing above - perhaps if you could assign a block of freqs for use by people building alternate history missions like mine (Sealion+30) that would prevent overlap etc?

I'll prob have NDBs at all LW bomber fields - 2 in south east England IVO Lympne area and 2 IVO Portsmouth/IOW area. That should hopefully provide enough to be useful.

Ezzie

[xvii-Dietrich]

Watching the thread with interest - have almost finished all my LW bases in England for my MP mission. Any advice on what freqs i should use? I'm guessing i should use different freqs than what you are proposing above - perhaps if you could assign a block of freqs for use by people building alternate history missions like mine (Sealion+30) that would prevent overlap etc?

Feel free to use anything in the 200-299 (inclusive) range.

Frequencies 200 -- 299 are proposed as "Mission Specific". If you are doing a "what-if", or want to use your own set-up, we are currently recommending this range. Put your more common frequencies near the top (e.g. 299) as they will be easier to get to.

Our more general plan is to use the 301+ range for historical locations and airfields and I am compiling that research now. If, later on, you decide that you want some historical references too, then there will be templates that you will be able to plug in, and you coudl then do that without compromising any mission-sepcific frequencies you are using.

300 should NEVER be used. This is the default frequency and we are recommending that this is avoided (in order to catch errors and to have a guaranteed "off" position).

[ATAG_Ezzie]

Ok thanks Dietrich. Have used 201-204 inclusive for my bases.

Another good reference if you haven't got it already is Pfadfinder, Luftwaffe Pathfinder Ops over Britain by Ken Wakefield. I haven't read it for a few years but might dig it out and see if there's any more info to add.

Ezzie

[xvii-Dietrich]

Another good reference if you haven't got it already is Pfadfinder, Luftwaffe Pathfinder Ops over Britain by Ken Wakefield. I haven't read it for a few years but might dig it out and see if there's any more info to add.

That sounds like Kampfgruppe 100 (KGr 100).

KGr 100 (not to be confused with Kampfgeschwader KG 100) were a unit which were fitted with the X-Gerät and Y-Gerät equipment first and would run leader missions to drop flares in ahead of the main force. I'm guessing your book is about that.

I've not read it myself, but it sounds pretty interesting and, certainly, if there is any information in there of interest, then please let us know. Thanks.

[xvii-Dietrich]

Ok thanks Dietrich. Have used 201-204 inclusive for my bases.

That's absolutely fine, of course.

However, a couple of tips, if I may...

Somewhere in 290-299 would be more convenient for pilots. The starting point is 300, and it is easier to go down a few notches, than down to the bottom of the sequence.

Also, by spacing them out a little (e.g. 291 294 296 299), you leave some room for extras within the sequence, and you remove the chance of accidental error by having a lot of adjacent frequencies. It also makes it a little bit more realistic as radio frequencies rarely occurred at uniform spacings in a tight block.