London Ruft - an update and request for feedback

[EG14_Marcast]

Thanks Ezzie for this new map. I only played twice, and the only minor problem I've found is the redundant number of static objects on the airfields. At Lympne is difficult to taxi, there are even a few aircrafts parked on a runway . But the map is good, it offers a lot of targets and it uses unexplored parts of the territory. Thanks again

[ATAG_Ezzie]

Thanks Ezzie for this new map. I only played twice, and the only minor problem I've found is the redundant number of static objects on the airfields. At Lympne is difficult to taxi, there are even a few aircrafts parked on a runway . But the map is good, it offers a lot of targets and it uses unexplored parts of the territory. Thanks again

Thanks Marcast - i'm currently going thu airfields at the moment trying to fix some spawn issues etc. Will review Lympne and try and make it easier to taxi.

Thanks for the feedback and positive comments - much appreciated.

Ezzie

[hnbdgr]

Though my stay on this map yesterday was cut short by the strange freeze midair bug, I enjoyed this map. It's unconventional, the settings are new, easier to get lost, easier to go undetected

Except for the spawn bug on the airfield I think I like this map. more testing is needed though.

Good job

[ATAG_Ezzie]

Though my stay on this map yesterday was cut short by the strange freeze midair bug, I enjoyed this map. It's unconventional, the settings are new, easier to get lost, easier to go undetected

Except for the spawn bug on the airfield I think I like this map. more testing is needed though.

Good job

Thanks again for the feedback hnbdgr.

Rgr re testing. Hope u don't get that bug again and pls let me know if you come across any more issues.

Ezzie

[macnihilist]

At Biggin Hill there's one of these catapult spawn points as well. (I only skimmed the posts above so maybe it was already mentioned.)
I'm not sure if it was a bomb crater or a problem with the map, but the trampoline beneath my plane got me two times (out of three spawns).

Apart from that: nice map.

[PanTast]

I just took of from Wilmington in a IIa. Found a bomber group with escort. Engaged the escort and ...


... no ammo or no guns

[macnihilist]

Took off from Watchfield (or whatever it's called, NW of the map) in a Spit IIa: No guns/ammo (two times in a row, second time I checked the loadout scrupulously and it was ok). Is that a PRU-preview?
Also had a trampoline jump again at Biggin Hill. This time after rolling slightly off the taxiway (but I was still on the airfield, less than 20m away from taxiway).

[InvaderZim]

Ezzie, thanks for the new map. I noticed all the stuff folks have already stated but have one more glithch to add. I have played this map at least 4 or five times now. After finally locating the tank park (#2) at A0 23. I have pounded it constantly for 2 days running with 109 B with 250 and 50 kg bombs. Today another player and I pounded 2 parks with 110's and 109's. At no time did the sim reflect hits on these parks! I know you have them heavily weighted point wise. So getting no points for hitting them hurts. Trying becomes a waste of time. Must they be hit from high altitude to trigger the points? What is the deal? I have even tried shooting them with cannon and crashing into them! No record of hits! Please advise.

Here is a screenie

shot_20141126_151232.jpg

[Decay]

This map came up for me first time last night.

WOW!

It's a bit like CLOD itself. Amazing but needs a bit more work.

Demanding airfields.
Great use of unusual parts of the map.
Achievable objectives (10 ships and 2 Panzer Parks to roll map)
Lots to do for secondary points.
Easter eggs - bridges, railyards and so on can be hard to find, making it rewarding when you do.
I only spotted one of the Petersham bridges when the AAA started shooting me.

Seems like you've put a huge amount of thought into this.
The map feels alive, like there's things happening on the ground and the in the air.
The 'what if' story feels plausible.
The objectives seem balanced.

If there's some bugs we'll call it a beta release and tidy them up.

There's a mis-type in the RAF briefing where you have put 'Axis' instead of 'Allies'.
Also in the Briefing - Can you put the MAP NAME at the top?
It starts with the date and it would be good to to have the name at the top.
Same goes for Relinquish - which I called "Dam Busters" for the first few weeks.

Awesome maps like London Ruft and Relinquish are making Kanal Kampf look very old hat.

Well Done Ezzie.

[ATAG_Ezzie]

---

At Biggin Hill there's one of these catapult spawn points as well. (I only skimmed the posts above so maybe it was already mentioned.)
I'm not sure if it was a bomb crater or a problem with the map, but the trampoline beneath my plane got me two times (out of three spawns).

Apart from that: nice map.

Thanks macnihilist. I've fiddled with the Biggin spawn points in an update I'm working on but apparently Biggin has issues as per the bug tracker. So I'm not sure whether my fiddling will have made a difference.

Be interested to know if people avoid Biggin as a result of these issues? If so I might consider using an alternate field, assuming they don't also have bugs.

Thanks for the feedback.

Ezzie

[ATAG_Ezzie]

I just took of from Wilmington in a IIa. Found a bomber group with escort. Engaged the escort and ...


... no ammo or no guns

Sorry about that Pan Tast. When I set out to make the map I was going to have Spit recce and there was some interest in that possibility and i created the plane list with several pru / recce options available. Unfortunately the scripting for it turned out to be beyond my ability and I didn't readjust the plane set accordingly. And there's no mention in the brief which is another oversight on my part -sorry.

I'm updating the map and haven't decided whether to leave them in as a placeholder or get rid of them as they serve no constructive purpose a the moment ( but might down track). Be interested in any thoughts on this.

Hope you got another chance to shoot stuff down with an aircraft with guns etc.

Ezzie

[ATAG_Ezzie]

Took off from Watchfield (or whatever it's called, NW of the map) in a Spit IIa: No guns/ammo (two times in a row, second time I checked the loadout scrupulously and it was ok). Is that a PRU-preview?
Also had a trampoline jump again at Biggin Hill. This time after rolling slightly off the taxiway (but I was still on the airfield, less than 20m away from taxiway).

Yeah pru strikes again -sorry. That's one of the pru bases and the Blennies there have guns but no bombs.

Ezzie

[ATAG_Ezzie]

Ezzie, thanks for the new map. I noticed all the stuff folks have already stated but have one more glithch to add. I have played this map at least 4 or five times now. After finally locating the tank park (#2) at A0 23. I have pounded it constantly for 2 days running with 109 B with 250 and 50 kg bombs. Today another player and I pounded 2 parks with 110's and 109's. At no time did the sim reflect hits on these parks! I know you have them heavily weighted point wise. So getting no points for hitting them hurts. Trying becomes a waste of time. Must they be hit from high altitude to trigger the points? What is the deal? I have even tried shooting them with cannon and crashing into them! No record of hits! Please advise.

Here is a screenie

shot_20141126_151232.jpg

Thanks InvaderZim.

Re the tank park. Unlike the airfields which give you a percentage readout based on the number of bombs dropped the trigger for the tank parks is different. To get the tank park destroyed message you have to destroy around 50% of the tanks. I just filled the fields up with tanks and don't have an exact count but would estimate there's maybe 30-40 tanks there. Once you've destroyed around half u should get the message but won't get any other indication other than smoke prior to reaching 50%.

I checked most of them using carpet bombing 88s and Blennies and they worked but I can't be 100% sure i checked them all so will revisit the one you have identified and see if the trigger is working ok.

Thanks for the feedback -appreciate your time taken to do so.

Ezzie

[ATAG_Ezzie]

This map came up for me first time last night.

WOW!

It's a bit like CLOD itself. Amazing but needs a bit more work.

Demanding airfields.
Great use of unusual parts of the map.
Achievable objectives (10 ships and 2 Panzer Parks to roll map)
Lots to do for secondary points.
Easter eggs - bridges, railyards and so on can be hard to find, making it rewarding when you do.
I only spotted one of the Petersham bridges when the AAA started shooting me.

Seems like you've put a huge amount of thought into this.
The map feels alive, like there's things happening on the ground and the in the air.
The 'what if' story feels plausible.
The objectives seem balanced.

If there's some bugs we'll call it a beta release and tidy them up.

There's a mis-type in the RAF briefing where you have put 'Axis' instead of 'Allies'.
Also in the Briefing - Can you put the MAP NAME at the top?
It starts with the date and it would be good to to have the name at the top.
Same goes for Relinquish - which I called "Dam Busters" for the first few weeks.

Awesome maps like London Ruft and Relinquish are making Kanal Kampf look very old hat.

Well Done Ezzie.

Thanks again Decay.

Re typo -thanks.

Re name - thanks.

Re Kanal Kamp etc - hopefully the new stuff will keep people interested and thanks for the positive comments.

Under the hood my mission totally owes its existence to the earlier ones and hopefully we can do them justice by continuing to build on their work. Creating the first missions would have been a minor miracle given the paucity of info available then and we owe a lot to the scripters who figured it out and are still figuring it out. I'll do a lessons learned post once I've ironed out some of the bugs in this one to hopefully expand on this and encourage more people to try their hand at mission building.

Thanks again Decay and good luck hitting your targets. The map was designed with players like you in mind so I appreciate hearing you are enjoying it.

Ezzie

[InvaderZim]

Thanks Ezzie, that explains a lot!!!!!!!!!!! Love the map, its been a lot of fun.

[InvaderZim]

Thanks InvaderZim.

Re the tank park. Unlike the airfields which give you a percentage readout based on the number of bombs dropped the trigger for the tank parks is different. To get the tank park destroyed message you have to destroy around 50% of the tanks. I just filled the fields up with tanks and don't have an exact count but would estimate there's maybe 30-40 tanks there. Once you've destroyed around half u should get the message but won't get any other indication other than smoke prior to reaching 50%.

I checked most of them using carpet bombing 88s and Blennies and they worked but I can't be 100% sure i checked them all so will revisit the one you have identified and see if the trigger is working ok.

Thanks for the feedback -appreciate your time taken to do so.

Ezzie

BTW, the trigger probably does work, no need to change anything on your end. Players will have to change the tactic for hitting them. Now we know the %, clearly we have to use multiple sorties of heavies or a massive amount of 110 strikes. clearly the 109 B's are all but useless here. I will try heavy strikes in the future.

Thank you sir.

[ATAG_Ezzie]

BTW, the trigger probably does work, no need to change anything on your end. Players will have to change the tactic for hitting them. Now we know the %, clearly we have to use multiple sorties of heavies or a massive amount of 110 strikes. clearly the 109 B's are all but useless here. I will try heavy strikes in the future.

Thank you sir.

Good luck with your heavy strikes InvaderZim.

Thanks

Ezzie

[ATAG_Ezzie]

An update re the invisible aircraft bug.

Ive gone thru my map a couple of times trying to see if there's anything obvious that might be causing it , noting that no one seems to know for sure what is causing it.

I found I had a couple of bases where the spawn points were included in both the main .mis file and the individual airfield sub-mission .mis file. I have rectified this but have no idea if this was/is the culprit. I've removed all the AI aircraft but again have no idea if this had anything to do with it.

And from reading other posts I don't think my object count is way higher than some other maps especially Relinquish in which SM has placed thousands. But I've reduced some objects from some fields. I don't know what else I can do at this stage other than to request people post if they have this occur on my map as well as others.

If you do have it could you pls let me know the following to aid troubleshooting

Airfield you spawned at if u are the invisible a/c

location of incident if you believe you were attacked by an invisible a/c

Player details of your attacker from the server message if you were shot down by an invisible a/c

Altitude you were at when attacked

An estimate of how many players were on the server at the time.

The approx real world time it occurred (Gmt/ us est etc)

The approx in game time left in mission ie use the tl command.

Anything else u think might be useful

Thanks

Ezzie

[ATAG_Colander]

An update re the invisible aircraft bug. Ive gone thru my map a couple of times trying to see if there's anything obvious that might be causing it , noting that no one seems to know for sure what is causing it. I found I had a couple of bases where the spawn points were included in both the main .mis file and the individual airfield sub-mission .mis file. I have rectified this but have no idea if this was/is the culprit. I've removed all the AI aircraft but again have no idea if this had anything to do with it. And from reading other posts I don't think my object count is way higher than some other maps especially Relinquish in which SM has placed thousands. But I've reduced some objects from some fields. I don't know what else I can do at this stage other than to request people post if they have this occur on my map as well as others. If you do have it could you pls let me know the following to aid troubleshootinga. Airfield you spawned at if u are the invisible a/cB. location of incident if you believe you were attacked by an invisible a/cc. Player details of your attacker from the server message if you were shot down by an invisible a/cd. Altitude you were at when attackede. An estimate of how many players were on the server at the time. F. The approx real world time it occurred (Gmt/ us est etc)g. The approx in game time left in mission ie use the

My theory...
The server has to send updates on position, speed, control surfaces etc. for every non-static plane/object in the map to every player.
In some cases (the more things needing updates the more it will happen) some updates might not be sent to all players in time (or at all) due to this.

Because of the above, you will not be able to duplicate it unless you have 100 players in the server and even then, your game might get the updates but others might not.

The only way I think this issue can be eliminated is by reducing the number of non-static (as in moving) objects in the map at a given time.

[♣_Spiritus_♣]

I found I had a couple of bases where the spawn points were included in both the main .mis file and the individual airfield sub-mission .mis file. I have rectified this but have no idea if this was/is the culprit. I've removed all the AI aircraft but again have no idea if this had anything to do with it. Ezzie

Let us know what happens but it seems promising that this could be causing something odd. Player X clicks to spawn and nothing happens, then clicks it again and spawns. Perhaps the mission happened to have launched sub-mission Y that included those spawn points in the main and the sub causing two aircraft to spawn in... one being the human and the other the invisible AI bug?

As Colander said, what is your AI count? I have thousands of objects but they are all static with the exception of the ships and trains which I kept under 30 total non-aircraft AI.

[ATAG_Ezzie]

Thanks Colander and SM.

I tried to keep the non AI moving stuff less than 30. But I've got some random trains for players to discover and shoot ( for no mission objective points though) so I might go ahead and remove them. And I have a small number of tanks travelling towards the fwd bases so that from time to time in the mission the base will come under attack on the ground ( the flak usually destroys these tanks after a gunfight). Might remove these extras as well in case they are the cause.

Re spawn point double up -yeah that sounds plausible as you described it SM. But I have no idea how it all works inside the game so it might not be the cause. But I've fixed it up and once I get the update onto the server we can see if the invisible bug still exists.

Ezzie

[xvii-Dietrich]

Another thing that might be useful is to take a look at the mission file with a text editor. Sometimes you can spot mistakes by going through that, where using the FMB user-interface might make it more difficult to find.

You can also do comparisons with other missions easier as well, especially things like counts and zones and stuff. I sometimes drag the file over onto a Linux box, so I can use grep, sed, awk, sort, wc, etc., as they make parsing/searching easier.

[ATAG_Ezzie]

Another thing that might be useful is to take a look at the mission file with a text editor. Sometimes you can spot mistakes by going through that, where using the FMB user-interface might make it more difficult to find.

You can also do comparisons with other missions easier as well, especially things like counts and zones and stuff. I sometimes drag the file over onto a Linux box, so I can use grep, sed, awk, sort, wc, etc., as they make parsing/searching easier.

Thanks Dietrich. Hadn't thought to do that and it sounds like a good idea. I'll take a look via this means as well and see what I can find.

Ezzie

[InvaderZim]

Good luck with your heavy strikes InvaderZim.

Thanks

Ezzie

3 of us (Beserker, kim and I) pounded one of the tank farms today. Took a lot! After 8 or so strikes ( missing included ) we managed to triger the the tank park destroyed message. So it does work.

[ATAG_Ezzie]

3 of us (Beserker, kim and I) pounded one of the tank farms today. Took a lot! After 8 or so strikes ( missing included ) we managed to triger the the tank park destroyed message. So it does work.

Nice!

Thanks for letting me know re the trigger and approx how many sorties it took. What a/c type(s) were you flying btw?

If it was 8 x -88 sorties I might need to refine. But if 110s and 109s then that is about what I was aiming for.

And how did you find the flak -too much / too little /about right?

Thanks as always InvaderZim.

Ezzie

[InvaderZim]

Nice!

Thanks for letting me know re the trigger and approx how many sorties it took. What a/c type(s) were you flying btw?

If it was 8 x -88 sorties I might need to refine. But if 110s and 109s then that is about what I was aiming for.

And how did you find the flak -too much / too little /about right?

Thanks as always InvaderZim.

Ezzie

Hi Ezzie,

We used JU 88 and He 111, so it did seem excessive and drew a WTF or 2 before we got it. To be accurate BKellum put a Ju 88 run or 2 on it to show us where it was, Beserker put 5 runs on it in Ju 88 ( don't know how many on target). I put 2 runs on it 1 He 111 successful and 1 Ju 88 successful and I think Kim put 3 JU 88 runs on it( don't know how many on target).

Flack was aggressive but about right.

[ATAG_Ezzie]

Hi Ezzie,

We used JU 88 and He 111, so it did seem excessive and drew a WTF or 2 before we got it. To be accurate BKellum put a Ju 88 run or 2 on it to show us where it was, Beserker put 5 runs on it in Ju 88 ( don't know how many on target). I put 2 runs on it 1 He 111 successful and 1 Ju 88 successful and I think Kim put 3 JU 88 runs on it( don't know how many on target).

Flack was aggressive but about right.

Thanks IZ - i'll take a look at the tank target trigger and see if its to high.

Time to get my trusty AI carpet bombing 88s out again to test them. Note to self - make sure i remove them before resubmitting the mission...

Btw some tank parks are contained in 2 fields that are nearby each other. If you set up your run geometry in a certain way you can cover both in a single drop and i was able to trigger the trigger using 3 x -88s (dropping complete load of mixed bombs) this way some times. Otherwise you will need multiple passes. And there's a degree of randomness as the tanks are spread out in the field a bit so one bomb might get several on one pass but none on the next depending on bomb size and distance from a tank.

But i will check to make sure i didnt fat finger the % and re-fly them to make sure they work as intended.

Thanks re flak - useful to hear that and i wont fiddle with the flak. The flak is different at each one but not significantly.

Ezzie

[ATAG_Ezzie]

Let us know what happens but it seems promising that this could be causing something odd. Player X clicks to spawn and nothing happens, then clicks it again and spawns. Perhaps the mission happened to have launched sub-mission Y that included those spawn points in the main and the sub causing two aircraft to spawn in... one being the human and the other the invisible AI bug?

As Colander said, what is your AI count? I have thousands of objects but they are all static with the exception of the ships and trains which I kept under 30 total non-aircraft AI.

Turns out i had way more than 30 moving AI vehicles. When i reviewed all the vehicles i came across a number of fuel convoys i had placed near each of the stations - they explode/burn very nicely. But of course each convoy has multiple vehicles (but only 1 x symbol shows on the screen unless you zoom right in) and hence my 30 moving AI budget was easily blown. Plus trains with carriages adds more than just 1 moving AI I'm guessing as well.

So i've removed them and replaced with static fuel trucks (unfortunately there doesn't appear to be any static trains) and I should be below the 30 moving AI vehicles now.

Fingers crossed this is the cause of the invisible a/c bug.

Ezzie

[ATAG_Ezzie]

Hi Ezzie,

We used JU 88 and He 111, so it did seem excessive and drew a WTF or 2 before we got it. To be accurate BKellum put a Ju 88 run or 2 on it to show us where it was, Beserker put 5 runs on it in Ju 88 ( don't know how many on target). I put 2 runs on it 1 He 111 successful and 1 Ju 88 successful and I think Kim put 3 JU 88 runs on it( don't know how many on target).

Flack was aggressive but about right.

Hi again InvaderZim,

I've just reviewed the red tank park targets you've been attacking. I reduced the destruction percentage required to trigger the trigger a smidgeon and have confirmed that for the most challenging red tank park 6 x AI -88s usually destroy enough tanks during 1 carpet bomb pass to trigger the trigger for a tank park target that is located in 2 adjacent fields (3 x 88s aim at the first field and the other 3 aim at the second nearby field).

Its quite likely human flown -88s could take less sorties to destroy the tgt as the AI drops the first bomb short and then the stick continues well beyond the field. I'm thinking - but dont know for sure as i havent flown bomber in COD yet - that a human flyer could concentrate more bombs on the field and have less long / short and thus maybe require less than 6 total sorties to achieve the necessary destruction.

One of the red tank parts is easily destroyed with 3 x -88 carpet bombers and again could probably be destroyed by less if well aimed.

Thanks for the feedback - if you have more pls let me know.

Blenny pilots - i would be interested to hear your thoughts about your blue tank park tgts. I'm very conscious that your payload is way less than the 88 and have taken this into account when designing the tgt. If you are having issues achieving the required level of destruction then pls let me know and I'll investigate further.


Ezzie

[InvaderZim]

Hi again InvaderZim,

I've just reviewed the red tank park targets you've been attacking. I reduced the destruction percentage required to trigger the trigger a smidgeon and have confirmed that for the most challenging red tank park 6 x AI -88s usually destroy enough tanks during 1 carpet bomb pass to trigger the trigger for a tank park target that is located in 2 adjacent fields (3 x 88s aim at the first field and the other 3 aim at the second nearby field).

Its quite likely human flown -88s could take less sorties to destroy the tgt as the AI drops the first bomb short and then the stick continues well beyond the field. I'm thinking - but dont know for sure as i havent flown bomber in COD yet - that a human flyer could concentrate more bombs on the field and have less long / short and thus maybe require less than 6 total sorties to achieve the necessary destruction.

One of the red tank parts is easily destroyed with 3 x -88 carpet bombers and again could probably be destroyed by less if well aimed.

Thanks for the feedback - if you have more pls let me know.

Blenny pilots - i would be interested to hear your thoughts about your blue tank park tgts. I'm very conscious that your payload is way less than the 88 and have taken this into account when designing the tgt. If you are having issues achieving the required level of destruction then pls let me know and I'll investigate further.


Ezzie

Thanks Ezzie.