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Thread: Aircraft rolling right when properly trimmed?

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    Aircraft rolling right when properly trimmed?

    Hi,

    I just started playing IL-2 Cliffs of Dover, but am not new to flight simulators.

    Whenever I take-off in any sort of fighter such as a Hurricane or Spitfire, the aircraft keeps pulling right.

    I'm not sure if that's a glitch within the game or if that's a torque effect?

    I have a MadCatz V1 Joystick and Saitek Pro-Flight rudder pedals and I have the controls set up.

    If anyone could give me some guidance on this, it'd be most appreciated!

    Thank you,

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    Supporting Member 9./JG52 Mindle's Avatar
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    Re: Aircraft rolling right when properly trimmed?

    Even when you have the rudder trimmed for your current speed so the ball is centred, the aircraft will need a touch of aileron input to correct the roll caused by the engine torque. You were correct. The flight models of the planes now in this sim are very good indeed.


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    Re: Aircraft rolling right when properly trimmed?

    Welcome to the community and forums super_chris12435...~S~

    The trim only works for a set speed....Any more or less airflow over the aircraft will make it pull left or right...Strictly speaking trim would be constantly need adjusting through all the speed range....I tend to trim for takeoff...then trim again once I get to cruise speed...I may even trim again if I am chasing or being chased and then again when landing...For example in the Spit I know that 10 clicks right tend to give it a more stable takeoff..but once I am upto speed the aircraft will then pull right so this will need to be backed off...

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    Re: Aircraft rolling right when properly trimmed?

    @super_chris12435

    There are two main (not exhaustive) effects that cause this "unwanted" roll and yaw, each has seperate origins and each is managed seperatey.

    1. Tourque Yaw. This is the violent swing to the left or right when you apply power from low starting velocity. Normally you experience this on takeoff roll. This effect is reduced as your velocty increases. This is common in all types and is managed via smooth throttle movement and "dancing" on the rudder.. The best aircraft in CloD to feel extreme versions of this are the 109 and the Ju88.

    In this video, watch the rudder pedals "dancing" back and forward during the takeoff roll:


    2. Aero-dynamically Induced Yaw/ Roll/ Pitch. This is the "roll" (and yaw and even pitch) changes that you get in flight, even when not changing your engine settings much. It is casued mainly by the airflow over the aircraft surface pushing it around - here are a myriad of ways in which the air does this. It is mostly managed by trimming the aircraft so that it is in "balanced flight". You can pretty much eliminate the roll in spitfire with constant trimming of the rudder. However, in the Hurricane, you will almost always be fighting this, no matter how good your rudder trim. There is, in fact, some material online about how combat pilots used to tie small lengths of string to one of the two Hurricane trailing edges to counter-act this rolll. I've searched for 15 minutes but I cannot find the damned link to the place where I first read this though...

    In this video, you can see that even a well-trimmed hurricane still has this roll. you can see I am shifting the control colum slightly every few secdnso to correct the roll, despite being trimmed out:
    Last edited by philstyle; Jul-29-2015 at 06:24.

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    Novice Pilot timbow's Avatar
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    Re: Aircraft rolling right when properly trimmed?

    Quote Originally Posted by philstyle View Post
    @super_chris12435

    There are two main (not exhaustive) effects that cause this "unwanted" roll and yaw, each has seperate origins and each is managed seperatey.

    1. Tourque Yaw. This is the violent swing to the left or right when you apply power from low starting velocity. Normally you experience this on takeoff roll. This effect is reduced as your velocty increases. This is common in all types and is managed via smooth throttle movement and "dancing" on the rudder.. The best aircraft in CloD to feel extreme versions of this are the 109 and the Ju88.
    The main source of yaw when you first start a takeoff roll in a taildragger is airflow hitting the rudder (plus cross wind components as the aircraft will want to "weathercock" into wind - more pronounced in tail draggers than tricycle gear aircraft).

    There is gyroscopic precession that occurs when you move the propeller from one stable position to another, the most obvious point is when you lift the tail of the aircraft and the prop moves from pointing at an incline, to pointing straight ahead(ish). In real life this is predictable so you'll see taildragger pilots apply rudder to counteract the yaw from airflow (this happens with all prop aircraft), then normally a bootfull as they lift the tail. This is then released once the tail is up....

    I've never flown a Spitfire or Hurricane, but have flown a Supercub and Luscombe 8E, the principles are the same, but the effects somewhat less violent.

    I've also watched a Spitfire takeoff (it was a Griffon powered PR one), the pilot started offset from the centre line to allow him some "curving" room.....
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    Re: Aircraft rolling right when properly trimmed?

    Quote Originally Posted by timbow View Post
    The main source of yaw when you first start a takeoff roll in a taildragger is airflow hitting the rudder (plus cross wind components as the aircraft will want to "weathercock" into wind - more pronounced in tail draggers than tricycle gear aircraft) ....
    In most cilvian types this is true. However, let's not forget that these WW2 birds were vastly overpowered. There's almost a 4-fold differential between these fighters and most modern GA types, including taildraggers. Numerous commentators describe the engine tourque effects of these warbirds. So we have to be careful about sayig what the "main source" is, especailly those of us who are basing our experience on civilian types.
    weight kg Power hp
    Hurricane 1 2900 1030
    Cessna 172 1100 160
    Cessan 170 998 145
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    Re: Aircraft rolling right when properly trimmed?

    Aaaand! I finlaly found that mention of using string/ Cord to dampen the rolling in the hurricane!
    Here it is, referenced and quotes on SoW website:
    http://stormofwar.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=2517
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    Re: Aircraft rolling right when properly trimmed?

    Just thought I would add my 2c .

    The bf109's in CLOD will balance out hands free for a climb at about 300-350km/h AIS for climb. When flying level at cruise the plane will balance out at cruise power settings or about 1.2ata and 2000rpm.

    The spitfires will balance out at full power at about 250mph AIS. They also will crusie level at cruise power settings.


    So I just cruise or climb at these speeds and power settings.

    All the planes can be balanced hands free by playing with the pitch trim and throttle settings until you find that sweet spot. once you find these settings and speeds you will never really need to touch the rudder trim in the RAF planes

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    Re: Aircraft rolling right when properly trimmed?

    During takeoff, concentrate on a cloud in the windshield or gun sight disk. Do not look around!

    Maintain direction with rudder, keep the wings level with ailerons. Do not let your cloud move until the nose drops.

    It's that simple.

    1.5 units of AND (Aircraft nose down) trim will help...
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