Spitfire Weapon Settings, Trimming etc - need help

[M_Klimek]

Hi,

I would like to ask for help (again):

So I am flying in Spittys now, love them, but as I am getting more used to stuff it is time for me to venture into further settings.

Weapons, at the moment I find it highly confusing in the loadout menu and would appreciate if anyone was kind enough to share their preferred weapon settings (convergence, projectile type etc)

In addition, trimming is something I struggle with, it said in a guide to centre the dot/needle, I feel like I should have gone to Specsavers, but I can't find the mentioned dot/needle, can anyone show me a screenshot or guide me as to where I should be able to find it? And does this needle move and knocks out the trim the fast/higher you are flying?
I currently only trim my elevator by up or down until nose stays steady if I let go of the stick, but this is highly affected by my speed and have to re-trim if I'm just patrolling an area after a climb. When I get into a dogfight I forget about trimming and start flapping and screaming like a little girl.

Thank you

[-=7th-DR=-Milo]

Hi

Here's the trim indicator off the Spitfire.

cockpit.jpg


The 109

luft cockpit.jpg

[Brewnix]

To trim you rudder is the turn and side slop indicator right below the pitch and dive dial on the right side of the flat dash down near the stick. There are 2 needles one on top pointing up and one on bottom pointing down both attached at the same spot in the middle of dial. The bottom one is bank indicator every time you turn the aircraft it wiggles back and forth from center. the top moves when you adjust the trim of the rudder. My general rule is try to adjust the trim at combat speed. Take off get to your comfortable altitude and adjust the trim. You adjust the rudder to make the top needle sit in the middle of the dial. And once iam in a dogfight you forget all about trim. Unless I am in a long dive chasing someone and realize eh I need so me nose down trim cause she keeps pulling up cause of the speed of the dive.

ammo types and convergence is a exploration setting you to figure out cause everyone is different. Find what convergence you like first then explore ammo. The ultimate is to shoot with no tracers. Stealth.

[1lokos]

Spitfire have indicator for Elevator trim too (is the only CloD plane that have this).



But the right thing is not look at "X%, or degrees of trim", but feel that plane are flying on level,
as the trim change with speed, acceleration, etc.

[Stormrider]

if you use the search function of this forum you can find a lot about ammo en convergence.One tool I find very useful for making a belt and load it to your plane, you can find it
here--> http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.co...ad.php?t=11555

[SlowerBanterSir]

Rudder trim is important in fighters -- particularly in the attack, as horizontal skidding (while hard to detect inside the cockpit) can throw your shots wide.

I always check my trim as I'm in the dive to attack an enemy. Often I'll find the indicator points a few degrees to the left, requiring a flew clicks of trim to correct. A readily available key or button makes this quick and easy, and pretty soon you'll do it without thinking.

---

As for guns, I'm a terrible shooter so don't want to mislead you. ...But if you're a bad shot like me, I can recommend 183 meters on the loadout screen. That translates to 200 yards, and it's a convenient, sufficiently close range that even someone like me can expect to get a few hits. Plus, it's easy to calculate range that way: A fighter will half-fill the sight circle at 200 yards, while a bomber will roughly fill it (at least according to old RAF manuals).

So just wait til a 109 is half the width of your sight and let 'er rip for maximum concentration.

[ATAG_Dave]

Re load out and convergence 183m horizontal as suggested above is a good starting point in the spit. It may be useful to understand how the gun sight works also. There are two rings below the sight one sets distance and the other wingspan. Adjust distance to 200 yards and wingspan to 32ft. Then the gap between the two horizontal bars on the sight corresponds to the wingspan of a 109 when he is 200 yards away (ie at your convergence).

Load out wise use a mixture of ball VII, de wild, armour piercing and add tracer if u like to use tracer.

[9./JG52 Mindle]

You need to trim a lot in every plane to achieve efficient flight. The spit has rudder and elevator trim to contend with. If you use a joystick with a HAT switch under your thumb, I suggest assigning rudder trim to the left and right positions and elevator trim to the up and down. You will need these controls often, on the fly and somewhere you can use intuitively without taking your eyes off the action. If you are trimming with keyboard you are a far better man than me!

As Dave suggests 183m (200 yards) horizontal and vertical convergence is a good setting to begin with. Many of us swear by it.

Try loading your guns with

AP - DW - Ball VII - DW

Add a white tracer in the fifth slot in a couple of your guns. 1&8 is good as is 4&5.

I'm weird and like them in 2&7.

Set your gunsight to 200 yards range and 32 feet wingspan and when a 109 fits nicely between the horizontal bars you are at perfect convergence, but in battle you rarely have the luxury of lining someone up like this and you can still do much damage at closer range also with a 200 yard setting.

I prefer to have gunsight with 150 yards setting and minimal wingspan (30 feet) so I can see my target. The rest is practice.

[Baffin]

Try trimming the elevator for a known speed during your before-takeoff check. The 1940 ops manual directs the trim to be set one unit AND (Aircraft nose down). Try this and then leave the trim alone... your airspeed will settle down around 185-205 with the radiator shutter at half open after 185 MPH. This is close to your "Comfortable" rate of climb. (Comfortable is not defined, but I assume it's the Vice Air Marshall's favorite speed.)

As a personal preference, you might consider an AND setting of 1.5 units (also called divisions) on the gauge instead. This will reduce the climb rate but will increase airspeed acceleration until it stabilizes near 244 MPH. This is a useful speed called "Cornering" velocity and provides the maximum turn rate while preventing over-stress with full stick deflection. In other words, if you get bounced at 244 MPH, you can react instinctively with aggressive back pressure without ripping the wings off.

Rudder trim is useful primarily in non-maneuvering flight to make the plane fly straight. In a dogfight, we need to learn the instinctive foot pedal inputs associated with airspeed changes. Forces change so quickly that rudder trim simply confuses your muscle memory's "Center point", and you'll soon need regular rudder input anyway.

Generally, if you start a dive you will accelerate, requiring left rudder to center the slip indicator. Conversely, you need to add right rudder to compensate for the deceleration encountered in a climb. This is part of lesson One when learning to fly a light, single-engine airplane but is easy to forget if you don't make it a habit. This subject is much more complicated with lots of technical terms [P-Factor, Torque, etc] to explain it but this statement simplifies the discussion for practical learning.

To practice rudder inputs, simply perform 1000 FPM climbs and descents with a constant power setting:

At 5000' AGL, pick a distant point to aim at, and set 2500 RPM and 2.5 psi manifold pressure boost to stabilize level flight at 250 MPH. (Varies slightly with different Spitfires) Center the slip indicator needle with rudder trim at these settings. You are now "Trimmed" for 250 MPH. The plane may want to roll right a little... just deal with it using ailerons.

Leave the trim alone and start a 1000 FPM descent with forward stick pressure. You'll see that you need left rudder to center the slip indicator as the plane speeds up. Don't trim, so that your mind will learn to associate stick forward pressure with left rudder pressure. When you're tired of descending, start a gentle pull up into a 1000 FPM climb. You'll find the need for right rudder to be intuitively obvious.

Once you get the physics figured out, challenge yourself and make the changes from climb to descent more quickly and with greater frequency to develop that "Pull Up - Right Rudder / Push Forward - Left Rudder" instinct, all while keeping the slip-ometer centered. It ain't easy!

[9./JG52 Mindle]

Try trimming the elevator for a known speed during your before-takeoff check. The 1940 ops manual directs the trim to be set one unit AND (Aircraft nose down). Try this and then leave the trim alone... your airspeed will settle down around 185-205 with the radiator shutter at half open after 185 MPH. This is close to your "Comfortable" rate of climb. (Comfortable is not defined, but I assume it's the Vice Air Marshall's favorite speed.)

As a personal preference, you might consider an AND setting of 1.5 units (also called divisions) on the gauge instead. This will reduce the climb rate but will increase airspeed acceleration until it stabilizes near 244 MPH. This is a useful speed called "Cornering" velocity and provides the maximum turn rate while preventing over-stress with full stick deflection. In other words, if you get bounced at 244 MPH, you can react instinctively with aggressive back pressure without ripping the wings off.

Rudder trim is useful primarily in non-maneuvering flight to make the plane fly straight. In a dogfight, we need to learn the instinctive foot pedal inputs associated with airspeed changes. Forces change so quickly that rudder trim simply confuses your muscle memory's "Center point", and you'll soon need regular rudder input anyway.

Generally, if you start a dive you will accelerate, requiring left rudder to center the slip indicator. Conversely, you need to add right rudder to compensate for the deceleration encountered in a climb. This is part of lesson One when learning to fly a light, single-engine airplane but is easy to forget if you don't make it a habit. This subject is much more complicated with lots of technical terms [P-Factor, Torque, etc] to explain it but this statement simplifies the discussion for practical learning.

To practice rudder inputs, simply perform 1000 FPM climbs and descents with a constant power setting:

At 5000' AGL, pick a distant point to aim at, and set 2500 RPM and 2.5 psi manifold pressure boost to stabilize level flight at 250 MPH. (Varies slightly with different Spitfires) Center the rudder trim at these settings. You are now "Trimmed" for 250 MPH.

Leave the trim alone and start a 1000 FPM descent with forward stick pressure. You'll see that you need left rudder to center the slip indicator as the plane speeds up. Don't trim, so that your mind will learn to associate stick forward pressure with left rudder pressure. When you're tired of descending, start a gentle pull up into a 1000 FPM climb. You'll find the need for right rudder to be intuitively obvious.

Once you get the physics figured out, challenge yourself and make the changes from climb to descent more quickly and with greater frequency to develop that "Pull Up - Right Rudder / Push Forward - Left Rudder" instinct, all while keeping the slip-ometer centered. It ain't easy!

Great post Fidget!

[Baffin]

Hi

Here's the trim indicator off the Spitfire.

cockpit.jpg


The 109

luft cockpit.jpg

These are the turn and slip indicators. There is no rudder trim gauge. There is a control you can map to center the rudder trim which will return it to the centered (Default) position.

The elevator does have a trim indicator gauge located below the landing gear indicator light on the left forward panel.

[Baffin]

Spitfire have indicator for Elevator trim too (is the only CloD plane that have this).



But the right thing is not look at "X%, or degrees of trim", but feel that plane are flying on level,
as the trim change with speed, acceleration, etc.

All three RAF airplanes have pitch trim (elevator) position indicators. Only the Spitfire uses a round dial gauge. The others have "Sliders".

[-=7th-DR=-Milo]

These are the turn and slip indicators. There is no rudder trim gauge. There is a control you can map to center the rudder trim which will return it to the centered (Default) position.

The elevator does have a trim indicator gauge located below the landing gear indicator light on the left forward panel.

Thanks for the correction Fidget... learning all the time.

[7./JG26_SMOKEJUMPER]

I have great success with 119M convergence. This is 130 yards and you need to set the gun sight to 150 yards and an a/c with 36ft wingspan. When a 109 fills it I open fire then. You are aiming at a 10M long point in space. You really don't want to fire outside of that often or you waste ammo.

I recently watched a dogfight overhead and got a great view of a Spit firing outside convergence. The bullets spread past the 109 he was firing at as he was too far away.

My settings are not amazing for the chase but there is usually another 109 coming anyway if they are running you out.

[M_Klimek]

Thank you to everyone for some great advice. I have now started getting more hits and flying more straight

[SlowerBanterSir]

Leave the trim alone and start a 1000 FPM descent with forward stick pressure. You'll see that you need left rudder to center the slip indicator as the plane speeds up. Don't trim, so that your mind will learn to associate stick forward pressure with left rudder pressure.

Hey now, some of us have cheapo Z-axis joysticks instead of rudder pedals! For my Logitech Extreme 3D Pro, light rudder input during a combat dive is easier said than done -- especially when the stick seems to read "gentle yaw" as "instant catastrophic spin."

[Baffin]

Hey now, some of us have cheapo Z-axis joysticks instead of rudder pedals! For my Logitech Extreme 3D Pro, light rudder input during a combat dive is easier said than done -- especially when the stick seems to read "gentle yaw" as "instant catastrophic spin."

[John Wayne Accent] Well, Pilgrim... Nobody ever said that life in this war is easy!

[timbow]

Learn to fly the rudder instinctively as others have said. Also, learn how to do coordinated turns. This means that you need to use rudder as well as roll in the turn. In a non-combat game, try a turn with rudder and take a look at the turn and slip indicator. You'll notice the two pointers (or the pointer and ball depending on the instrument) are pointing in the same direction. This means you are slipping, i.e. not turning at your best rate of turn, and a target. The trick is to keep the slip indicator in the middle of the gauge. Do this by using a SMALL amount of rudder in the direction the slip indicator is pointing until it is centralised. Make a note of how much rudder you used, it probably won't be much, if you use too much, the slip indicator will point in the other direction, so release the rudder a bit.

@SlowerBanterSir - this is probably because you have stalled your wing in a turn, so you probably need to not pull in the turn so hard. You can't just bank and pull to max stick range unless you're carrying a lot of energy into the turn. As you dogfight, your speed will drop off and you need to disengage to recover, you need to keep your aircrafts stall speed in a turn in mind, also understand the characteristics of the controls in that situation so you recognise it without having to look down into the cockpit. Recovery actions would be to unload the wings, make sure throttle is full power. Obviously if you're being chased, this is where you will be vulnerable...

[7./JG26_SMOKEJUMPER]

Rudder trim is important in fighters -- particularly in the attack, as horizontal skidding (while hard to detect inside the cockpit) can throw your shots wide.

I always check my trim as I'm in the dive to attack an enemy. Often I'll find the indicator points a few degrees to the left, requiring a flew clicks of trim to correct. A readily available key or button makes this quick and easy, and pretty soon you'll do it without thinking.

---

As for guns, I'm a terrible shooter so don't want to mislead you. ...But if you're a bad shot like me, I can recommend 183 meters on the loadout screen. That translates to 200 yards, and it's a convenient, sufficiently close range that even someone like me can expect to get a few hits. Plus, it's easy to calculate range that way: A fighter will half-fill the sight circle at 200 yards, while a bomber will roughly fill it (at least according to old RAF manuals).

So just wait til a 109 is half the width of your sight and let 'er rip for maximum concentration.

Top WWII aces had theirs around 150 yards in the Spitfire. I copied them and as I turn a lot I find myself firing from very close range so it works for me.

[TWC_SLAG]

I have read in several biographies that pilots looked to make sure the ball was centered just before they pulled the trigger. If it wasn't, the bullets would not go where he was aiming.

badfinger

[=FI=Murph]

It's worth searching here for threads on how the gunsight works. It's also a good idea to have buttons assigned to set the distance (matches the pipper to the actual set convergence-in yards) and range (matches the space between the two horizontal lines of the pipper to the wingspan of the target-in feet) on the fly. It's very helpful to be able to set the appropriate range quickly while in combat.