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Thread: VKB Gunfighter

  1. #61
    Supporting Member Vlerkies's Avatar
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    Re: VKB Gunfighter

    What I am trying to say is that perhaps I have a Cougar, or a Warthog, or CH or something else, why is VKB for me.

    I have been around the block a few times over the years with simming, as a lot of us have, and just wonder if these folks are not maybe missing a trick.

    In contrast and by example, MFG for instance, really (somehow) took the ambiguity out of it all when they hit the market
    http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=4036&dateline=1382347  940

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    ATAG Member ATAG_Highseas's Avatar
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    Re: VKB Gunfighter

    Quote Originally Posted by Vlerkies View Post
    What I am trying to say is that perhaps I have a Cougar, or a Warthog, or CH or something else, why is VKB for me.

    I have been around the block a few times over the years with simming, as a lot of us have, and just wonder if these folks are not maybe missing a trick.

    In contrast and by example, MFG for instance, really (somehow) took the ambiguity out of it all when they hit the market
    The mechanism. Simple as that.

    The VKB mechanism is well thought out.

    (whether it is well executed when it is built will come down to other factors, but as a design, its solid in principle.)

    MFG or Slaw pedals same... the design is well thought out. Manufacturing is also superb.


    The Warthog gimbal design is daft from a mechanical point of view. Really daft.

    It's about as convoluted a method of making an X Y axis as you could dream up. A vertically moving plunger.

    I'm not keen in the least.


    I still think its really odd that nobody made a better gimbal for the warthog stick.



    So I think that is it... (is for me at least) the VKB mechanism makes sense from an engineering point of view.
    Last edited by ATAG_Highseas; Mar-20-2017 at 13:15.

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  3. #63
    Supporting Member Vlerkies's Avatar
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    Re: VKB Gunfighter

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_Highseas View Post
    So I think that is it... (is for me at least) the VKB mechanism makes sense from an engineering point of view.
    Don't dispute that, as with the Cougar the default Warthog gimbel is less than an engineering masterpiece.

    It's probably just me, but I just find the site and the offering/s less than clear.

    I had a Cougar once that was also ridiculous stock, with a U2Nxt mod + hals it was still the best hotas I ever owned, way better than the Hog imho.
    Still gutted I sold it.
    http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=4036&dateline=1382347  940

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    ATAG Member ATAG_Highseas's Avatar
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    Re: VKB Gunfighter

    Quote Originally Posted by Vlerkies View Post
    Don't dispute that, as with the Cougar the default Warthog gimbel is less than an engineering masterpiece.

    It's probably just me, but I just find the site and the offering/s less than clear.

    I had a Cougar once that was also ridiculous stock, with a U2Nxt mod + hals it was still the best hotas I ever owned, way better than the Hog imho.
    Still gutted I sold it.
    Nope... that's definitely not just you.. that's true enough.

    The European site is... erm... yeah.... the USA one is better, but again its limited. Its a carbon copy of the Russian site. The South American one is probably the most informative.



    I read about the Cougar U2Nxt mod... looked like a superb upgrade. It's why is so odd that nothing like that came along (third party) for the Warthog.


    I think if it were not for Cliffs of Dover I'd never have heard about VKB. or Slaw or MFG for that matter.

    If I was starting out again now and had minimal budget I'd go with CH Pro all the way. It's certainly (as at todays date) what I would recommend to new players

    chucking the sort of cash at peripherals I seemingly have requires two things...

    a love of Clod (or similar sim) and a huge amount of patient time slowly upgrading.


    The love of Clod would have kept me here irrespective !

    Everythingallatonce

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  6. #65
    Supporting Member Vlerkies's Avatar
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    Re: VKB Gunfighter

    By design the Cougar gimbels were made from cheap soft pseudo metal alloy, that even if brand new were rubbish and far from smooth and wore over time. The rest of the hotas offered a lot though!
    IJ designed and produced the gimbels, and I dont often compliment a kiwi but work of art right there, together with CubPilot (hals) produced a wonderful mod.

    Plug an play, no dummies guide required. It was really sweet but the way the Cougar was designed inadvertently allowed for that.

    I have modded the springs on my Hog with customs tensions I had made up, but if VKB offers something better, I will 9 out of 10 times throw money at it.

    my old cougar u2nxt, stick side
    cgr.jpg
    Last edited by Vlerkies; Mar-20-2017 at 14:38.
    http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=4036&dateline=1382347  940

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  8. #66
    Supporting Member 9./JG52 Kettarian_Fox's Avatar
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    Re: VKB Gunfighter

    I agree with Vlerkies re:deficiencies of communication VKB is demonstrating.
    Have no problem with their product though being a proud owner of the latest Mamba with a cam-based loading mechanism, which might just be the finest piece of mechanical engineering I have ever had the honour to hold in my hands.

    The only thing that bothers me is a lowish tension even using the most powerful springs, when combined with an extension and a Warthog stick - good for helicopters, but somewhat lacking for airplanes...
    Which is why I ordered a Gunfighter a couple of month back lol

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    Re: VKB Gunfighter

    Quote Originally Posted by Vlerkies View Post
    I have modded the springs on my Hog with customs tensions I had made up, but if VKB offers something better, I will 9 out of 10 times throw money at it.
    For use Warthog/Cougar grip are alternatives:

    VKB Gunfighter base standalone - when (if) available.

    http://vkbcontrollers.com/?product=v...hter-base-only

    - Not cheap, but more affordable than UberNXT at time.

    Baur BRD base is other option - too low available.

    https://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/topic/...18#entry443905

    - Baur base is probable the one more suitable for ones in the "Quest for the Feel Simulation".

    VirPil T-50 base - when (IF) available.

    https://virpil.com/en/blog/43-mongoost-50-mechanism

    - This will be the more affordable option.
    Last edited by 1lokos; Mar-20-2017 at 15:21.

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  12. #68
    Supporting Member Vlerkies's Avatar
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    Re: VKB Gunfighter

    Quote Originally Posted by 1lokos View Post
    For use Warthog/Cougar grip are alternatives:

    VKB Gunfighter base standalone - when (if) available.

    http://vkbcontrollers.com/?product=v...hter-base-only
    Thanks 1lokos

    Now as a replacement 'base' for my hotas stick component that may very well interest me, as I can envisage by looking at the pictures that the gimbel design is better than the stock hog plastic.
    So unplug the stick handle and use that base I assume instead?

    What does 'turnable axis' mean in the product description, is that rudder for those that dont have it?
    http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=4036&dateline=1382347  940

    If it's brown, shoot it down!

  13. #69
    ATAG Member ATAG_Highseas's Avatar
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    Re: VKB Gunfighter

    Quote Originally Posted by Vlerkies View Post
    Thanks 1lokos

    Now as a replacement 'base' for my hotas stick component that may very well interest me, as I can envisage by looking at the pictures that the gimbel design is better than the stock hog plastic.
    So unplug the stick handle and use that base I assume instead?

    What does 'turnable axis' mean in the product description, is that rudder for those that dont have it?
    using the warthog / couger stick on eth VKB base requires and additional PCB to be wired into the stick. (I ordered the bas and the PCB).

    Turntable axis (as far as I understand it) just means you can clamp the stick from 0 degrees (ie straight) to another offset as you like...

    no idea why you would want to do that though.

    presumably a comfort thing?!

    Everythingallatonce

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    Also ED-Tracker for when the sun shines out of, I mean... from behind

    (Operated by a 1972 Standard Issue Talking Monkey)

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  15. #70
    Supporting Member Vlerkies's Avatar
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    Re: VKB Gunfighter

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_Highseas View Post
    (I ordered the bas and the PCB).
    Would be very interested to hear your impressions when you have it all setup and have had some time to test it out.
    http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=4036&dateline=1382347  940

    If it's brown, shoot it down!

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    Re: VKB Gunfighter

    So unplug the stick handle and use that base I assume instead?
    Is not exactly "PnP", is required open Warthog (Cougar) Grip, remove their connector part, fit VKB electronic adapter under original Shift Register PCB, install VKB adapter and then "plug" on VKB base.

    This parts - optional not included in Gunfighter base:

    http://vkbcontrollers.com/?product=v...for-gunfighter

    To "play" is need update VKB firmware, load the profile suitable for Warthog through VKB DevCfg software.

    The process is similar to install this early adapter - without electronic circuit:

    http://forum.vkb-sim.pro/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=2178

    Is not difficult, some people do "in a minute", but some people mess with this.

    This "Tunable axes" can mean:

    Is possible set response curves, deadzone, "dual rate", trim "cheater"... for axes in VKB DevCfg and save then in controller EPROM - instead use a memory hungry Windows software running in games background.

    But can mean to:

    Is possible "tuning" the axis feel trough exchange CAM profile and/or springs and "dry clutch" adjust.
    Last edited by 1lokos; Mar-20-2017 at 18:32.

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  18. #72
    Supporting Member Vlerkies's Avatar
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    Re: VKB Gunfighter

    Quote Originally Posted by 1lokos View Post
    Not exactly "PnP", is required open Warthog (Cougar) Grip, remove their connector part, fit VKB electronic adapter under original Shift Register PCB, install VKB adapter and the "plug" on VKB base.

    This parts - optional not included in Gunfighter base:

    http://vkbcontrollers.com/?product=v...for-gunfighter

    To "play" is need, update VKB firmware, load the profile suitable for Warthog through VKB DevCfg software.

    Similar to this early adapter - without electronic adapter:

    http://forum.vkb-sim.pro/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=2178

    Is not difficult, some people do "in a minute", but some people mess with this.

    This "Tunable axes" can mean:

    Is possible set response curves, deadzone, "dual rate", trim "cheater"... for axes in VKB DevCfg and save then in controller EPROM - instead use a memory hungry Windows software running in games background.

    But can mean to:

    Is possible "tuning" the axis feel trough exchange CAM profile and/or springs and "dry clutch" adjust.
    Seems easy enough. Thank you again for your very useful and informative input 1lokos

    Is there a VKB page on their website that explains this?
    So me as an average simmer with a warthog, who has heard about this great hardware and hardware mods, can go to and see exactly what I need to buy and how i must configure it?
    It's this part of the marketing I think that is letting them down a bit.

    Again, not knocking the hardware, actually it looks pretty darn good, just info like this seems less obvious to a prospective customer. (unless i missed it of course )


    edit: how about a Warthog KIT page? have warthog want to convert, this is what you need and how to do it?
    Last edited by Vlerkies; Mar-20-2017 at 17:32.
    http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=4036&dateline=1382347  940

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    Supporting Member 9./JG52 Kettarian_Fox's Avatar
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    Re: VKB Gunfighter

    Just as Sokol written above - you take your Warthog stick apart, pull some stuff out, put the adapter in, put the stick back together. Very easy, if your hands grow from the right place. Took me 15 minutes or thereabouts.
    I imagine the new one for the Gunfighter will be similar.
    The only critique I have to offer is that they didn't account for the shifted center of gravity that this stick has - and it's one heavy stick, actually heavier than the Mamba base that I have. Well sorta they did, by including a special cam for pitch axis, for Warthog sticks only - much better solution though would've been to shift the point of connection through the adapter to the front, by 2 cm or so. I've suggested it to them, but judging from their announcements they are doing it like before for the Gunfighter.
    The problem with that special cam for me is that it has a defined center - basically you know when you go through the center point like with most joysticks, because there is a bump. And I really like to have no center at all - perfect for helis and prop planes which is what I fly nowadays. You can do with normal cams in Mamba with the second strongest set of springs and a bit of calibration for desktop, however using an extention - and it's a long one they offer, I think almost 20 cm - even with the strongest set of springs with a Warthog stick it leans quite a bit forward.
    Solved it by installing the base leaning a bit towards me and slightly to the right in my cockpit, but am really looking for the Gunfighter with it's stronger springs and a possibility to mount two springs on one axis.

    And yes you can turn your stick anticlockwise, both desktop and with an extension. 15 degrees is the limit in the Gunfighter, Mamba I'm unsure but it works for me))

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    Re: VKB Gunfighter

    Quote Originally Posted by Vlerkies View Post
    So me as an average simmer with a warthog, who has heard about this great hardware and hardware mods, can go to and see exactly what I need to buy and how i must configure it?
    You need buy:

    VKB Gunfighter base (that came without grip, with VKB KG 12-B grip is more 30/40$).
    VKB adapter kit (mechanical, electronic, CAM, springs).
    VKB 20 cm extension (case want one) - the extension "S" try compensate the out of balance of (heavy) Warthog grip mentioned by Kettarian_Fox.

    But all this was postponed again, realistic expect that this "more two-three weeks" will easy turn in "two mounts".

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  23. #75
    ATAG Member ATAG_Highseas's Avatar
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    Re: VKB Gunfighter

    Quote Originally Posted by 1lokos View Post
    realistic expect that this "more two-three weeks" will easy turn in "two mounts".

    hahaha !!


    Everythingallatonce

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    Also ED-Tracker for when the sun shines out of, I mean... from behind

    (Operated by a 1972 Standard Issue Talking Monkey)

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    Re: VKB Gunfighter

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_Highseas View Post
    ha!... 1Lokos is right again !

    Shipping of the Gunfighter initial batch is delayed somewhat due to delays in the supply chain of the Gunfighter's PCBs (Printed Circuit Boards) and PCBAs (Printed Ciruit Board Assembly). These delays were outside of the control of VKB HQ and pushed back the delivery date by about two - three weeks. VKB HQ promised to provide me with an up-to-date shipping date on (or before) March 28.

    I've waited a year. I can wait another month or three if needs be.

    My guess is the European shop will be listing them after they are actually "physically" available. !

    I still can't speak Russian or Chinese.... so no idea there !
    Maybe you could fill me in when you get this up to date shipping info. Apparently they don't communicate with everyone equally, I sure didn't hear squat about delays only saw the consignment allotment had been hit and then retracted.

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    Re: VKB Gunfighter

    PhoenixCNE

    VKB North America reseller do their best to keep interested people up to date - limited to VKB info/delays.

    http://vkbcontrollers.com/?p=2803

    This above quote was from email/newsletter he send yesterday for ones that did Gunfighter pre-order.

    You can sign their newsletter there:

    http://vkbcontrollers.com/?page_id=818

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    Re: VKB Gunfighter

    Quote Originally Posted by 1lokos View Post
    PhoenixCNE

    VKB North America reseller do their best to keep interested people up to date - limited to VKB info/delays.

    http://vkbcontrollers.com/?p=2803

    This above quote was from email/newsletter he send yesterday for ones that did Gunfighter pre-order.

    You can sign their newsletter there:

    http://vkbcontrollers.com/?page_id=818
    This is my complaint 1lokos lol ... I did pre-order and received no emails. At least you guys are good up to date info!

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    Re: VKB Gunfighter

    Where can I buy this stick ?

    Shipping for South Europe... Greece... (Hellas)

    Thanks...

  28. #80
    ATAG Member ATAG_Highseas's Avatar
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    Re: VKB Gunfighter

    Quote Originally Posted by sw1ive View Post
    Where can I buy this stick ?

    Shipping for South Europe... Greece... (Hellas)

    Thanks...
    https://flightsimcontrols.com/

    (not listed as being in stock yet... I think they will most likely get a shipment sent to them and sell once in house)

    Everythingallatonce

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    Also ED-Tracker for when the sun shines out of, I mean... from behind

    (Operated by a 1972 Standard Issue Talking Monkey)

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    ATAG Member ATAG_Highseas's Avatar
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    Re: VKB Gunfighter

    Quote Originally Posted by PhoenixCNE View Post
    This is my complaint 1lokos lol ... I did pre-order and received no emails. At least you guys are good up to date info!
    I will post them here as I get them !

    Everythingallatonce

    ASUS H87M-E - i5-4670 (3.4GHz) - 16GB DDR3 1600MHz - GTX 980ti - Corsair 650W CS - TM Warthog HOTAS - Slaw Device Rudder Pedals - TrackIR 5
    Also ED-Tracker for when the sun shines out of, I mean... from behind

    (Operated by a 1972 Standard Issue Talking Monkey)

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    Supporting Member 69th_Zeb's Avatar
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    Re: VKB Gunfighter

    Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_Highseas View Post
    Stuff looks good though, and more than that the designs are logical from a mechanical viewpoint, and excellent from an engineering viewpoint.
    Well said. Sometimes beautiful engineering and mechanical elegance don't go together all that well. Haha. I like working on the older planes, because they often just have lawnmower cables and tractor carbs. A run of 1000 sounds like they're pretty serious about it though. Fatigue, beatings, and time will tell!

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