Thank youOriginally Posted by Chivas
Thank you
This is excellent news!
Valve is cooperating with the Open Source Virtual Reality project and their approach to VR is to build the tools that developers need and let them do what they want. This was what Palmer Luckey originally wanted. Hopefully, all HMD's will eventually be open.
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"When we say "Oculus Exclusive", that means exclusive to the Oculus Store, not exclusive to the Rift. We don't make money off the Rift hardware, and don't really have an incentive to lock our software to the Rift." -Palmer Luckey
"If customers buy a game from us, I don't care if they mod it to run on whatever they want... our goal is not to profit by locking people to only our hardware." -Palmer Luckey
Last edited by Robusti; Jun-01-2016 at 22:30.
Excellent move, Colander, I wholly agree. This is the moment when early adopters need to impress on VR companies that walled gardens, spyware running constantly and "hardware DRM" are a no-go. A few years down the line, when VR becomes cheaper and goes mainstream it will be too late, because "the masses" don't care about issues like that.
Facebook is a travesty of what the internet was meant to be. We can't let it shape VR in the same direction.
On a point of history: That's not correct, Valve have been investing in both AR and VR since early 2012, long before Facebook got on board. In fact, Valve were sharing their research with Oculus back then, as Valve had stated that they did not want to go into the hardware business. That sharing seems to have ended once Oculus were bought by Facebook and then poached Michael Abrash from the Valve VR program
Without Valves willingness to share, the Rift probably would not have happened. Recently a valve dev said the following: "Every core feature of both the Rift and Vive HMDs are directly derived from Valve's research program," "Oculus has their own CV-based tracking implementation and frensel lens design but the [consumer version one] is otherwise a direct copy of the architecture of the 1080p Steam Sight prototype Valve lent Oculus when we installed a copy of the "Valve Room" at their headquarters." "I would call Oculus the first SteamVR licensee, but history will likely record a somewhat different term for it."
Ouch
Good to hear that COD may be getting an openVR port. This technology is in its infancy, the last thing it needs is for a proprietary standard to achieve dominance early in its development
Wrong....Oculus was investing in VR software long before Facebook monies, and Valve, because there was no point is selling their hardware without software. Valve did voluntarily share ideas with Oculus, but had no interest in developing their own consumer version hardware at the time, or VR software until they partnered with HTC. There is no doubt that Oculus used Valve's low persistence idea, and I have no doubt that Valve learned some things from the hugely talented Oculus development team.
If the Rift is a copy of the Vive, why is the Rift more comfortable, lighter, with better custom displays, better optic lenses with a larger sweetspot, and better ATW software. etc etc. The Rift controllers will be completely different aswell with finger dexterity, and the Tracking is completely different.
IMHO the ONLY slight advantage the Vive headset has over the Rift headset is its FOV, BUT that came at the cost of SDE. Where the larger Vive displays, with the same resolution, had to spread out the pixels, which created a larger space between pixels. Samsung built a custom display for the Rift with smaller spaces between pixels. A larger FOV is great, but that's the last thing that flight sims needed, when reading gauges, and seeing distant objects is far more important than a slightly larger FOV. Oculus could have made their higher pixel density displays larger, but that would have increased the minimum spec computer to drive it. Its all about compromises.
Samsung has recently created a 4k display for VR, so the next generation of HMD's should make a huge difference in visual quality, especially now that the GPU manufacturers are creating ways to send two slightly different images at the same time, without a major hit in frame rates.
So true and it will be denied by those who do not want to see the truth, but it is true just the same. Also, the walled garden, spyware running constantly and hardware DRM clearly have Facebook fingerprints all over them. Oculus/Facebook are going down the wrong road with this petty proprietary strategy and risk damaging the future of VR if they don't pull back on this behaviour. So sorry that it seems Luckey has lost control of his company that is now going down a path that he has tried so hard to avoid. So glad TF is going with OpenVR.
__________________________________________________ ________________________________
"When we say "Oculus Exclusive", that means exclusive to the Oculus Store, not exclusive to the Rift. We don't make money off the Rift hardware, and don't really have an incentive to lock our software to the Rift." -Palmer Luckey
"If customers buy a game from us, I don't care if they mod it to run on whatever they want... our goal is not to profit by locking people to only our hardware." -Palmer Luckey
Last edited by Robusti; Jun-01-2016 at 23:21.
Sorry Double post
__________________________________________________ ________________________________
"When we say "Oculus Exclusive", that means exclusive to the Oculus Store, not exclusive to the Rift. We don't make money off the Rift hardware, and don't really have an incentive to lock our software to the Rift." -Palmer Luckey
"If customers buy a game from us, I don't care if they mod it to run on whatever they want... our goal is not to profit by locking people to only our hardware." -Palmer Luckey
Last edited by Robusti; Jun-01-2016 at 22:42.
Your track record of knowing what the truth is deeply flawed. Your the same guy who spammed the forums with your every version of.....COD is crap, and would always be crap. People tried to explain the potential of COD to you, but you would have nothing of it, and tried to turn everyone you could against it.
You're the same guy who keeps personally attacking me. I have had you on ignore and have purposely not responded to any of your posts until I was told that you posted this ad hominem trash. Grow up.
__________________________________________________ ________________________________
"When we say "Oculus Exclusive", that means exclusive to the Oculus Store, not exclusive to the Rift. We don't make money off the Rift hardware, and don't really have an incentive to lock our software to the Rift." -Palmer Luckey
"If customers buy a game from us, I don't care if they mod it to run on whatever they want... our goal is not to profit by locking people to only our hardware." -Palmer Luckey
Last edited by Robusti; Jun-02-2016 at 11:37.
Enough with the discussion guys. Please go back to the original topic or open a different thread for this discussion.
Back on topic, it seems that ATW is working fine with OpenVR.
The implementation is nowhere near ready but so far it seems to work perfectly (at least in an OR DK2).
Whats the ATW? (it might had been mentioned before, but i just dont recall what it is)
https://developer.oculus.com/blog/as...on-oculus-rift
https://developer.oculus.com/blog/as...ewarp-examined
ATAG_Lolsav liked this post
Awesome news. I am so glad ATW is working and Rift users will be able to use it with OpenVR. Open and free development is more likely to be a reality with an API like OpenVR and its partnership with OSVR. This is a very good thing for both VR and TF.
__________________________________________________ ________________________________
"When we say "Oculus Exclusive", that means exclusive to the Oculus Store, not exclusive to the Rift. We don't make money off the Rift hardware, and don't really have an incentive to lock our software to the Rift." -Palmer Luckey
"If customers buy a game from us, I don't care if they mod it to run on whatever they want... our goal is not to profit by locking people to only our hardware." -Palmer Luckey
Last edited by Robusti; Jun-02-2016 at 11:37.
What I'm not so sure is how it will work for Vive users.
ATW handles every FPS bellow 90 but from what I understand, Vive's interleaved reprojection only works by halfing the FPS to 45.
There are places (and moments) where the game can drop FPS bellow 45 (think london with heavy AA and many planes). ATW seems to handle it very well but I suspect Vive will not be so nice as it would only reproject every other frame.
Anyway, once (when/if) there is something in beta, I will be asking for 1 Vive owner for testing and we'll see.
Note: I'm getting around 25 FPS over London with full buildings and inside a cloud with an NVidia 980.
Last edited by ATAG_Colander; Jun-02-2016 at 11:59.
Oersted liked this post
Oculus Rift CV1 Prescription Lens Adapter
I don't know anything about it, but will check it out.
https://www.reddit.com/r/oculus/comm...ef_source=link
This will pay off in the long run. VR is just starting and there are/will be lots of growing pains.What I'm not so sure is how it will work for Vive users.
ATW handles every FPS bellow 90 but from what I understand, Vive's interleaved reprojection only works by halfing the FPS to 45.
There are places (and moments) where the game can drop FPS bellow 45 (think london with heavy AA and many planes). ATW seems to handle it very well but I suspect Vive will not be so nice as it would only reproject every other frame.
Anyway, once (when/if
Note: I'm getting around 25 FPS over London with full buildings and inside a cloud with an NVidia 980.
If there's no one else with a Vive, I'll gladly give it a go.Anyway, once (when/if
Oersted liked this post
This is what I think you are looking for https://vr-lens-lab.com
Not sure if it will help the develoment but its an interesant topic anyway:
Valve Releases ‘The Lab’ Unity Renderer for Free
So Valve has giveaway for free to encorage the VR develoment the rederer used in his VR demo "The Lab", the demo was based on the Unity engine and the code not contain all the renderer pipeline from the Unity but the tricks used by Valve to optimize the VR experience.
Here is the Valve´s post in the blog with interesants points about Anti-aliasing and the trick of GPU flushing:
http://steamcommunity.com/games/2508...85915045842668
TotalBiscuit has a multifaceted opinion on Oculus Exclusive games.
https://youtu.be/p7M8K70OxRU?t=14m8s
For those interested in a thoughtful opinion based on facts, rather than paranoia.
Last edited by Chivas; Jun-06-2016 at 18:54.
Nice to see more openness from Valve.
A new video came out today on this subject:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7M8...utu.be&t=14m8s
-23:47 "What benefits the VR market benefits everybody, and in the long run we need stability in the VR market, we need a healthy VR market, and Oculus is not helping to develop that at this point."
I hope Oculus moves back to they way Luckey envisioned the market. Open is the way to go, not hardware DRM.
__________________________________________________ ________________________________
"When we say "Oculus Exclusive", that means exclusive to the Oculus Store, not exclusive to the Rift. We don't make money off the Rift hardware, and don't really have an incentive to lock our software to the Rift." -Palmer Luckey
"If customers buy a game from us, I don't care if they mod it to run on whatever they want... our goal is not to profit by locking people to only our hardware." -Palmer Luckey
Last edited by Robusti; Jun-07-2016 at 10:09.
Valve says that they will start funding VR developers to help curtail Oculus timed exclusives. This fly's in the face of those that argue that Valve has been heavily funding VR software from the start.
Valve didn't take the risk of investing much in VR software market, as they imagined getting a cut the VR software market selling thru their Steam store. Anyone who thinks that Valve quickly allowed Rift hardware to work with the Steam store just for the good of VR needs a reality check. Valve did some investing in VR software, but only became serious when there was a threat to their Store. This is more a Store War, than a VR hardware war.
Oculus heavily funded the very risky VR software market from the beginning, because their headset would be useless without it. From the first days Oculus suggested they would sell their hardware near cost, and gain a return on their investment on the software side. Hence the Oculus store where they could maximise margins, control VR software quality, as poor quality software could kill VR very quickly, and time exclusives gave the store a buffer period to consolidate.
The Facebook haters notion that Oculus is the devil, and Valve the second coming in VR is ridiculous. It's never that simple. Both Steam, and Oculus store have DRM aspects, BUT in the end when timed exclusive die away we will benefit from a little competition in the sale of VR software.
It looks like they continue to go down the open route despite pressures from Facebook/Oculus. When Valve funds developers, “There are no strings attached to those funds. They can develop for the Rift or PlayStation VR or whatever the developers think are the right target VR systems.
https://www.vg247.com/2016/06/17/val...clusive-deals/
I hope Oculus moves back to the way Luckey envisioned the market. Open is the way to go, not hardware DRM. Vive is still open hardware. If Vive decides to match the terrible decision of Facebook/Oculus hardware DRM, then Facebook/Oculus will have been successful in the starting of an HMD war. Something that will really damage VR. I hope Vive continues to take the high road and resists hardware DRM and continues to support openVR.
Oculus breaks promise, uses DRM to kill app that let you switch VR systems
http://boingboing.net/2016/05/20/ocu...e-uses-dr.html
Oculus is shooting itself in the foot with DRM
http://www.slashgear.com/oculus-is-s...-drm-20440962/
Hardware DRM is not necessary for software exclusives anyway, in fact it harms software sales for Oculus. If Oculus sold their exclusive software at the Oculus store only, without hardware DRM, they would make more money selling to other HMD owners and have complete exclusivity on the software profits. Hardware DRM is nothing but a naked HMD hardware market share grab at the expense of the community. Software exclusives are one thing, hardware DRM is a totally different kind of damaging behavior to the open development of VR. Open is the way to go.
__________________________________________________ ________________________________
"When we say "Oculus Exclusive", that means exclusive to the Oculus Store, not exclusive to the Rift. We don't make money off the Rift hardware, and don't really have an incentive to lock our software to the Rift." -Palmer Luckey
"If customers buy a game from us, I don't care if they mod it to run on whatever they want... our goal is not to profit by locking people to only our hardware." -Palmer Luckey
Last edited by Robusti; Jun-19-2016 at 13:05.
Interesting development?
https://www.kitguru.net/components/v...ng-applicants/
"The needs of the Flight Sim Community outweigh the needs of the one or the few"
This could really speed up Gen2 of the VR hardware!
I will almost certainly be entering the field once the next gen of sets starts being released.
“OSVR knows that VR content developers can’t afford to be limited by walled gardens and closed ecosystems,”
Open is the way VR must take to fully benefit the community.
Last edited by Robusti; Jun-22-2016 at 09:55.
Really excited for VR support. If DCS is anything to go by, it's going to be a huge improvement in being able to fly with proper depth perception and 1:1 scale.
Great news! Oculus finally backs down from their terrible mistake of hardware DRM.
"The removal is essentially a mea culpa from Oculus, which over the last few weeks has faced hard questions from press and users about its strategy in locking down content to its own platform. Restricting games to its own hardware was seen by many as a move that benefited no one but Oculus, and harmed the VR community at large."
https://techcrunch.com/2016/06/24/oc...o-its-headset/
"The past week has not been good for Oculus VR. After months of speculation that it has been paying developers to create games exclusively for its Oculus Rift headset, a VR developer shared on Reddit that his team personally declined stacks of money from the company to instead pursue multi-HMD development."
"Although a small number of people have rushed to Oculus VR's aid to argue that exclusivity is an important element of the gaming industry and has divided platforms for many years, that hasn't prevented widespread discussion on places like Reddit and social media where the company has been bombarded with criticism on a daily basis. Combined with its unbearably long delivery wait list, Oculus VR has found itself in the negative spotlight, making its primary competitor appear virtuous in comparison."
"What this means is that while Oculus VR doesn't personally allow HTC Vive owners download the Oculus software and play its games, the company will no longer combat CrossVR's Revive Compatibilty Layer, which provides full support of Oculus to the HTC Vive through third-party software."
http://www.gamerevolution.com/featur...ense-criticism
Looks like CrossVr/ReVive beat down Facebook/Oculus.
Last edited by Robusti; Jun-25-2016 at 11:03.
What the sky didn't fall?? You'll have to scour the internet to make another mountain out of a mole hill. Its very early days in VR hardware/software and there will be many more VR issues that require innovative solutions. This is not the time to set standards based on the lowest common denominator.
"This is huge."
"If not an official endorsement of Revive, it at least seems like a tacit acknowledgement that hey, maybe starting a war with the most tech-savvy ten percent of VR users isn’t a great idea."
http://www.pcworld.com/article/30883...et-uproar.html
Thank goodness Oculus saw the huge blunder of hardware DRM and corrected it, even if they still are not as open as other HMD manufacturers. The massive outcry must have hurt their bottom line and the flip-flop prevented themselves from losing any more good will. Main thing is the community is better off without hardware DRM. Open VR is the future.
Last edited by Robusti; Jun-26-2016 at 21:28.
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