Dead Reckoning Problems.

[sag]

Hello everyone, Drock was kind enough to teach me the basics of flying on the spit 1a (thanks BTW)

and have been practicing myself for a while. but for some reason i cant really figure dead reckoning out.

for example i want to fly from manston to oye-plage
so i measure like this

IMG_20140330_210447640.jpg

it reads around 130 degrees,
then i allign the north on my magnetic compass to my course setter.
then i set my directional Gyro to whatever my course setter is reading.
finally, i take off heading 130 degrees (on directional gyro) plus 10 degrees of the magnetic variation so its actually 140 degrees im headed to (reading from my directional gyro)

ok so after about 10 minutes of flight, i arrive at french point!! its very far off from my intended destination, considering its such a short flight!!

what am i doing wrong here, ive tried to figure it out myself with no luck so far.


thanks in advance


Sag

[III./ZG76_Saipan]

your better to use the map tools in game to come up with a flight plan

[sag]

your better to use the map tools in game to come up with a flight plan

i get what youre saying though ive tried it that way and get the exact same result

[1lokos]

it reads around 130 degrees,
then i allign the north on my magnetic compass to my course setter.
then i set my directional Gyro to whatever my course setter is reading.
finally, i take off heading 130 degrees (on directional gyro) plus 10 degrees of the magnetic variation so its actually 140 degrees im headed to (reading from my directional gyro)

After calibrated the DG, turn the N of Course Setter to 130, and fly with compass needle + between the Course Setter parallel lines a look if DG get imprecise, due maneuvers. In this case need recalibrate.

Learn read compass with Course Setter scale fix in N, in mirrored way help.

http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.co...ll=1#post40784

Sokol1

[1lokos]

I did your "lesson".

Spit over Manston, go to Oye Plage.

Map Tols give me a bearing of ~135 degrees.

I adjust Course Setter for 145 (to compensate the 1940 10º of magnetic deviation).

Fly in "IFR" way until see some land on left windscreen.

ruvi37.jpg

And:

xpseic.jpg

I use more Compass that DG - but re-calibrated DG two time in flight, only slight variations, since I am flying "Red on Red"*, no need turn Course Setter N, they already match the Compass needle, just re-set DG for 145, the actual Course Setter adjust.

Of course, for combat flight better only glance at DG.

I use the keys:

7, 8 to set Course Setter
4, 5 to set DG

Ease and fast to use.

* The Red on my Compass needle faded out.

Sokol1

[ATAG_Freya]

Good reading, Sokol1! (red on red)

The P-8 compass is a bowl-shaped instrument renowned for its robust reliability, but it has one inherent issue; you have to set the course by turning the grid ring (which has directions marked every 10 degrees graduated in 2-degree divisions, and is also divided into four quarters by two parallel wires which connect N to S, and E to W) until the required course is set against the lubber line (a small white marker on the inner ring of the compass). You are then on course when the pointer with a red cross is on the large red square marked 'N' for North (hence the expression, "Red on Red"); wonderful, you may well say, so there's no problem getting there and back, right ? Not quite; there is a problem, one that is all the more dangerous because it is an insidious one. You see, you have to remember that when you want to get home, you must make sure that you re-set the course home. In this case, the course to Tamu was 150 degrees on the way out. On the way back, a pilot had to set 330 degrees, the way back to Imphal and home, and then make sure that the pointer with the red cross was back on 'N.' The only problem was that, in the heat of combat, pilots could (and frequently did) forget to set the reciprocal course home, blindly keep turning until they had put 'N' on the pointer with the cross, and head farther and farther away from home, and run out of fuel, with its usually horrendous results. In fact, this problem was so severe that some squadrons used to block off the bottom or Southern half of the grid ring as a reminder - but - you still had to re-set the course home…

Lubber line? Red on Red? Never heard those terms. I learn a lot from reading your posts! Now, if I could just remember everything....

[sag]

thanks for the replies guys, i guess ill just get used looking at the compass rather than the gyro. tried it and it worked

[DRock]

thanks for the replies guys, i guess ill just get used looking at the compass rather than the gyro. tried it and it worked

Use Course setter to see where you are facing.(check the direction of the sun, too)

Use gyro to repeat that number.

Now set the CS to intended direction of travel.

Lift off and swing the plane around so the compass 'north' needle is parallel with the CS lines.

Set the gyro again to that heading, because gyro will become inaccurate when you move the plane around.(shaking, barrel rolls, turning. This can effect gyro repeater.)


Look for me online this week and I'll help you out if needed again.


Good luck, Mate.

[1lokos]

Lubber line? Red on Red? Never heard those terms. I learn a lot from reading your posts! Now, if I could just remember everything....

Freya,

Actually we use the "lubber line" on CloD when set a course - but in digital form.

Instead look at the number of desired course on Course Setter scale align with the (aircraft) center line, we look at HUD digital information of this course.



I dont see (on Web) pictures of (real) P-8 compass with this "lubber line" attached like on above screen (probable from FSX add-on plane).
Probable the plane author put this line to facilitate the use, since this game dont have the "cheat" HUD, and this compass probable are only a
pop-up window (not 3D like in CloD).

In CloD is difficult align the desired heading if you don't look at HUD numbers, due lack of reference of plane center line, and 3D parallax - so the HUD is a compromise.

Sokol1

[ATAG_Freya]

Thankyou Sokol1 !

* The Red on my Compass needle faded out.

Looks like this guy has the same problem as us! Discount sale at the p-8 factory outlet?

[1lokos]

Ops, the "lubber line" is already there - No, just coincidence:



Sokol1

[235 Sqn. Coldstreamer (QJ-X)]

Lubber line? Red on Red? Never heard those terms. I learn a lot from reading your posts! Now, if I could just remember everything....

Something else to confuse you with freya

Grid to Mag = ADD
Mag to Grid = GET RID

basically if your looking at your map and want mag bearing add 10 degrees

If your looking at your compass and want map grid bearing, subtract 10 degrees

BUT i'm not sure if magnectic variation is included ingame? Anyone able to comfirm this?

[1lokos]

Yes, it's ~10 degrees to West.



Sokol1

[Baffin]

After extensive trials, I have given up on the inflight map for dead reckoning. Instead, I have "Flight Checked" no-wind courses between points that I frequent and enter them in a simple spreadsheet log. In order to get started in the proper direction, I climb to sufficient altitude to visually see the destination, point the airplane at it and center the course setter. Write the course down and then fly it to confirm, or make adjustments. It's a tedious process, but it works.

I also tried Google Maps to get courses but they did not always work either on CLoD maps. The distance measurements are helpful, especially on short route segments.

I guess we must accept that this is a navigation limitation of the CLoD platform.

[1lokos]

P-8 Compass Red on Red:





Sokol1

[1lokos]

the required course is set against the lubber line (a small white marker on the inner ring of the compass)

Finally figure what is the "Lubber Line" (reference line, aligned with aircraft longitudinal axis) in P8 Compass, that lacks on CloD compass, and if exist allow turn off this secondary instrument Info Window (where is show the actual heading adjust), using the "Lubber Line" to set course.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQWZEVaoFKQ#t=431

Correct modeled by A2A:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3044203/P8%20Compass.jpg

[Incog]

holy boogers, 10° of magnetic deviation in 1940? :o

we're at like 1° or 2° today

[Decay]

Vintage Map. Check.

Stopwatch. Check.

Scale Ruler. Check.

E6B. Check.

VirtualCockpit.exe Check

Dead Reckoning works for me.
Even with a timed heading change.

[1lokos]

Finally figure what is the "Lubber Line" (reference line, aligned with aircraft longitudinal axis) in P8 Compass, that lacks on CloD compass, and if exist allow turn off this secondary instrument Info Window (where is show the actual heading adjust), using the "Lubber Line" to set course.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQWZEVaoFKQ#t=431

Correct modeled by A2A:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3044203/P8%20Compass.jpg

Well, Russian dev's really don't understand this "left hand" English things, the Lubber Line is wrong in DCS Spit. Mk.IX, "glued' in Course Setter scale.

picture share

[1lokos]

Well, taking a second look on Mk. IX P8 - with flood lights on.

The 3D maker can't understand the "Lubber Line", but get their reference concept:

posted image

So he weld a pin in bowl bottom at 12 o'clock that can be used as reference.
In spawn this pin is hidden be the "fake" Lubber Line" (glued in Course Setter glass) and cockpit low light.

Now that "funny" British navigation is possible, without need dumb "digital" HUD aids.

[Baffin]

Most players agree that the Directional Gyros are not accurately modeled in CLoD. They precess unrealistically so the Magnetic compass is the instrument of choice for DR navigation.

Dip error is frequently overlooked when climbing across the channel. Pitch attitude causes an inherent "Dip" in all magnetic compasses as the North pointer points downward to the magnetic pole on the Earth's surface. As pitch increases, so does dip error.

To demonstrate this, establish straight and level unaccelerated flight and set the course setter to N (Aligned). This is an accurate (The only accurate) magnetic bearing whether you're in a Spitfire or a Boeing 767. Then pitch up smoothly while keeping the wings level (as if you were climbing efficiently) and note the change in magnetic bearing. This is "Dip" error and is the basic reason we even have gyro compasses in airplanes. CLoD has pronounced dip error, most easily observed in an autopilot equipped plane like the Blenheim, in which I have seen as much as 25°.

To navigate with the Whiskey (Mag) Compass in CLoD, you need to climb to a height from which you can depart a way point while stabilized on-course at your cruise altitude. That way, your magnetic heading will be accurate. For low level flights below 1,000' msl, you can take off and proceed on course, but for high altitude flight, DR requires a climb to altitude at the coast-out point. A lot of us will use RAF EastChurch as a departure point, climb while flying to the coast-out fix (Deal Castle, for example), and from there, DR to the coast-in point on your plotted course. It's interesting, but since the weather in our CLoD simulator is rarely a factor, it's not really necessary.

One peek out the window is worth a thousand instrument cross-checks!

See page 8-23 in the link below for all the details:

https://www.faa.gov/regulations_poli...0_phak_ch8.pdf

[1lokos]

Most players agree that the Directional Gyros are not accurately modeled in CLoD.

The "good" news is that in DCSW Mk. IX DG is more "sensible", just taxi and take off make the thing lost their "heading".