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=AN=Felipe
Jan-13-2012, 17:47
http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=28753&page=3

Blue pilots dont read documents, thats fact, they say Spit IIa have UFO FM... bullshit... read this!

S! guys and enjoy your reading! Very good documents posted by Osprey! :thumbsup:

no more words!

III./ZG76_Keller
Jan-13-2012, 18:35
So are we going for historical accuracy or a somewhat balanced game that is fun to play online? Because if we want historical accuracy the Allies won the war so there is no point of even playing this sim/game.

Right now server #1 is without the Spit IIa and the Bf 109E-4, and I feel that things are much more balanced right now. Blue pilots are burning out engines more often without the E4, and Red pilots are having to work a little harder with the Spit Ia to get kills. We are closer to parity now then we were with the E4 and IIa active in the server.

It is my opinion that Bliss and WatchMan have created these servers and missions to promote and encourage team based flying, and still I see people more concerned with their kill ratio than completing the objectives. If the Reds have only one objective left to protect there should be multiple planes flying over the area to protect it, and this rarely if ever happens. Personally, I'd like to see the stats completely removed from the server. If people want to dogfight and rack up huge kills then there are servers for that, I'm more satisfied when I complete an objective than when I go hunting for kills.

People will start flying escort for a bomber and then peel off as soon as they see a pack of enemy bombers flying past. Adding to those kill numbers still seems more important to some then protecting their friend in a bomber and allowing him to complete the objective.

My 2 cents.

Dutch
Jan-13-2012, 19:11
It is my opinion that Bliss and WatchMan have created these servers and missions to promote and encourage team based flying, and still I see people more concerned with their kill ratio than completing the objectives. If the Reds have only one objective left to protect there should be multiple planes flying over the area to protect it, and this rarely if ever happens.....
....If people want to dogfight and rack up huge kills then there are servers for that, I'm more satisfied when I complete an objective than when I go hunting for kills.


A big +1 to that.

Individual scores shouldn't be what it's about in my view also, and I think it's taking a little time for the Fighter Boys to realise the objective based approach (No offence chaps!), although if they know we're there, most players seem happy to offer escort. It's protecting the target sites at the same time that seems the elusive part on both sides.

Getting some fighter pilots to protect target installations and some to escort the required offensive takes some planning and willingness on the part of the participants though, so how do we promote this?

Emphasise the mission requirements a little more in the briefing?

=AN=Felipe
Jan-13-2012, 19:49
it is my technical opinion, only, i dont want to be arrogant, i just want to stop watching and rearing bullshits about this, i saw you, keller and other blue pilots complain, so you and the others have to read a little more before saying "UFO" FM... thats all... :salute:

The server was great right now, took of Spit IIa and E4, still the same thing... S! for ATAG great work! And special for Bliss!

ATAG_Snapper
Jan-13-2012, 22:02
I like to think we can all express our opinions and concerns here freely without being called out as BS. Everyone here wants everyone else to enjoy Cliffs of Dover on the ATAG servers and frequently we may disagree, with respect, on each other's views on the specific aspects.

I like the objectives that the ATAG admins are introducing into the servers and believe that we're going in the right direction. Personally, I like the developments of the stats reporting and can see the day when the objectives themselves will be incorporated as positive feedback.

Red or Blue, ultimately we're all on the same side here!:salute:

ATAG_EvangelusE
Jan-13-2012, 23:21
Server one has evolved and offers a mission based concept for both sides with clearly defined primary and secondary objectives.

However, this is a BoB sim that suffers from a number of performance issues particularly at low altitude with even modest numbers of player ac involved.

For that reason many find it frustrating to engage in low level combat and, for tactical reasons as well as improved performance, prefer to fly at altitude.

This is a BoB Sim/theatre. This war was about large formations of Axis bombers with Fighter escort. The role of the RAF was to intercept and destroy the bombers. The Luftwaffe had defined targets and the elimination of the RAF. This was how the server was initially set up but your never going to get enough players to fly bombers, they have to be AI and it was hoped that players would escort/intercept - at altitude!

The current player objectives are generally low altitude skirmishes and the AI bombers target fodder with no impact on wether a sides mission objectives are won - but at least give a sense of what the BoB was all about.

The Spit1a is best at altitude and no suprises that I and others prefer it up high against the BF109. But there is hardly anyone up there and few players bother to escort. It's a mugs game down on the deck and it's tactically incorrect for a SpitMk1a to try and beat a well flown BF109 at low alt.

I said it another thread, if possible the AI bombers should have targets well inland that contribute to a teams success. Players would then have to escort them and more DF's would occur at altitude where the SpitMk1a is reasonable.

I like the the current mission objectives, what I don't like is flying in 1500ft furballs in a SpitMk1a and 2fps to boot! I, along with JtDawg, spent 20 minutes at altitude against Collander in his BF - that is where combat should be but with few players at altitude, better fps and historically correct Bombers flying acrosss the channel - is it suprising that AI bombers become targets?

Its not about the stats - quite frankly I would prefer not to have them! -what I would prefer is more players at altitude, improved performance and FM that is relative to the current ac in the plane set.

jaydee
Jan-14-2012, 02:53
We have had this discussion before and the admins made the're decisions ,which most are happy with ! Lets focus on the issues with the game and try and sort them out first(while we are waiting for the next "patch") ! ~S~

svend
Jan-14-2012, 08:43
Hi and a very good day to you all gentlemen,

Being in my late 40`s :laugh1 I have to say im very blessed regarding stats - I dont care about them and have no problems, with people who enjoy to look at their hard earned scores after a evening, with alot of challenges.

Im a Red and Blue player and the absolute best moments I have experienced was, when it was possible to have people team up and go for objectives and win the map. Yes it`s difficult and there are alot of lone wolf`s out there :laugh1

I se alot of good and vice inputs above and perhaps it`s an good idea to remove the stats for a week or so - just to test and se what happens (only problem for me right now is, when I get near Hawkins my fps dives like a Stuka :Grin:).

CloD and of cause the ole Il2 1946 brings an environment full of competition, personel fulfilment, ego and self-perception, which inevitably brings the worst up in people. We se it in topics all over and it`s not good at all :no (yes Im convinced that 100% octan was used all over during BoB and have been for a long long time :laugh1), but it will not keep me away from this little bugger "the 109" :laugh1 AND :) at the same time I will have the chance to fly the "sexy" spit and Hurri, with historical performance.

Last I have a wish to bring forward to the ATAK community regarding team play and objectives. To you guy`s who are in a squadron, both red and blue ...... PLEASE do not stay in your own TS Channels (this of cause do not apply to squard nights), get into the channels where people are. You have alot of experience to share and if your in a recruiting situation, that`s where you will find new squard mates ;).

Finally I would like to forward my thanks to the ATAK members AND not to forget Blis for his great work (damn Hawkins) :P

With king regards
Svend Aka Pingu online

=AN=Felipe
Jan-14-2012, 10:24
I like to think we can all express our opinions and concerns here freely without being called out as BS. Everyone here wants everyone else to enjoy Cliffs of Dover on the ATAG servers and frequently we may disagree, with respect, on each other's views on the specific aspects.

I like the objectives that the ATAG admins are introducing into the servers and believe that we're going in the right direction. Personally, I like the developments of the stats reporting and can see the day when the objectives themselves will be incorporated as positive feedback.

Red or Blue, ultimately we're all on the same side here!:salute:

Sorry Snapper, but opinion without facts is BS, and this is my opinion too, i know we are at the same side, i dont want to fight against anyone, i dont want to be arrogant and attack people, im just asking to read before saying and making rumors. I saw many times blue pilots calling noobs for those who select Spit IIa, including me for some times, but im not a rookie, coolander knows that, and Mr. X knows that too... i dont loose for this guys flying Ia, IIa or hurricane... whatever, wish have 20mm to go back home with 4 or 6 kills... ;)


Server one has evolved and offers a mission based concept for both sides with clearly defined primary and secondary objectives.

However, this is a BoB sim that suffers from a number of performance issues particularly at low altitude with even modest numbers of player ac involved.

For that reason many find it frustrating to engage in low level combat and, for tactical reasons as well as improved performance, prefer to fly at altitude.

This is a BoB Sim/theatre. This war was about large formations of Axis bombers with Fighter escort. The role of the RAF was to intercept and destroy the bombers. The Luftwaffe had defined targets and the elimination of the RAF. This was how the server was initially set up but your never going to get enough players to fly bombers, they have to be AI and it was hoped that players would escort/intercept - at altitude!

The current player objectives are generally low altitude skirmishes and the AI bombers target fodder with no impact on wether a sides mission objectives are won - but at least give a sense of what the BoB was all about.

The Spit1a is best at altitude and no suprises that I and others prefer it up high against the BF109. But there is hardly anyone up there and few players bother to escort. It's a mugs game down on the deck and it's tactically incorrect for a SpitMk1a to try and beat a well flown BF109 at low alt.

I said it another thread, if possible the AI bombers should have targets well inland that contribute to a teams success. Players would then have to escort them and more DF's would occur at altitude where the SpitMk1a is reasonable.

I like the the current mission objectives, what I don't like is flying in 1500ft furballs in a SpitMk1a and 2fps to boot! I, along with JtDawg, spent 20 minutes at altitude against Collander in his BF - that is where combat should be but with few players at altitude, better fps and historically correct Bombers flying acrosss the channel - is it suprising that AI bombers become targets?

Its not about the stats - quite frankly I would prefer not to have them! -what I would prefer is more players at altitude, improved performance and FM that is relative to the current ac in the plane set.

"I like the the current mission objectives, what I don't like is flying in 1500ft furballs in a SpitMk1a and 2fps to boot!"

me too, but im not saying to put the IIa again, or not, im saying to stop talking BS about it, many guys dont know what they are talking, and we rear and read craps... like the other post... SPit Ia with a good pilot who knows techniques and engine settings own E3 at hight altitudes... its just a question of techniques...

so you guys will took off Ia too? thats my question... took off IIa i dont know why, really............ now Ia own E3 in right hands... so will took off Ia too?
Its your server you do what you want, im just defending right actions and what its fair for red team. Blue pilots always have the advantage, now it seems desapear... and he we go again...


" I, along with JtDawg, spent 20 minutes at altitude against Collander in his BF..." they have better engines and guns, we have better pilots... =)

cya.

ATAG_Snapper
Jan-14-2012, 11:25
Felipe, calling BS on anyone is inflammatory. There are better ways to disagree strongly with someone else's opinion than resorting to that. There is a strong argument that ALL the Allied and Axis fighters are undermodelled, with the possible exception of the Spitfire IIa. If there is evidence to prove something different -- great. Present it! And allow the other person to dispute without saying "BS"!

On the 1C forum I posted my initial results of installing a 2nd graphics card in SLI mode. Immediately I was told by another 1C member that "I was spreading lies!" He was concerned that the devs would see my post and stop work on a CoD-specific SLI profile by assuming that SLI runs fine anyway. (my initial results actually showed it WASN'T running SLI fine, but that didn't seem to matter). But you can imagine how I felt about that individual accusing me of lying -- a BS-er in other words. He apologized later after I called him on it -- he pissed me off bigtime. The apology was good, but the damage was done. I never posted about SLI again on that forum.

As moderator, I don't want to see that here. We're all honourable people here with frequently different opinions on matters.

What's said is said. This thread is closed.

ATAG_Snapper