Damage Modelling / Damage induced Drag imbalance

[hnbdgr]

Salute,

I fly the 109 predominantly. For a while I've been noticing what seems like a game imbalance to me. If I make a successful pass on a spit or hurri and manage to land 3-5 canon rounds, sometimes nothing happens to them! (last night twice) I check my recorded tracks and see that each time i hit them with just a few shells They don't get any damage modelled on them whatsoever. This means they don't get damage induced drag in-between other things.

On the opposing side, the 109 gets bulletholes and wing tears modelled even after a pot shot hits you. If they hit you from 0.45 for instance you only hear one or two thumps but the following happens: 9055

Why is this important? Because drag affects your speed and speed means life. doubly so in the 109. If anyone has noticed the same please post here. I will do a few records of it happening so you can see it.

[Macro]

post the vids of the spit not taking damage mate. Im sure if there is a bug here tf are interested.

[92 Sqn. Philstyle (QJ-P)]

Yes, please post the .trk files.

thanks.

[ATAG_Colander]

Also, try flying the spit and having a friend shoot at you. Then compare loadouts.
If there's an issue, it might be some specific bullet type.

[ATAG_Snapper]

I want one of those untouchable Spits! :thumbsup:

[ATAG_Lolsav]

I want one of those untouchable Spits! :thumbsup:

I dont mind doing some trial runs with you Snap. Just come in front of my guns and we will test it :devilish:

[ATAG_Snapper]

I dont mind doing some trial runs with you Snap. Just come in front of my guns and we will test it :devilish:

Been there, done that. Got the tshirt but you punched a buncha holes through it....:ind:


:)

[ATAG_Lolsav]

Ah! says the man who periodically fills my plane with air conditioner ventilation devices (holes)

[ATAG_Colander]

Why can't you just be friends?

[Macro]

They are speed holes! Give me paintball guns and i will sort you out some go faster stripes as well

[hnbdgr]

I shall post it very soon gentlemen! thanks for the interest!

[ATAG_EvangelusE]

I can assure you that both light and severe damage to the Spit wing impacts on speed and handling quite significantly, even light damage consisting of a couple of minor tears/holes forced me to RTB.

An issue with some types of armament not causing any damage is a different matter and would have to be looked at.

[ATAG_Colander]

Please note that some damage decals might not be shown but the plane will have the damage.
In other words, there could be damage on the plane, just not visible.

[RAF74_Buzzsaw]

Please note that some damage decals might not be shown but the plane will have the damage.
In other words, there could be damage on the plane, just not visible.

To emphasize: As Colander says, you might not see damage... but there is an effect.

[hnbdgr]

Ok, here are the vids:

Lack of damage on spit/hurri

Example1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZjyVmdyF6M&feature=youtu.be

Example2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPUh6m5MFBs&feature=youtu.be

109 takes single hit at 0.54 range, wings shows damage immediately. I did watch that track again today and there was some damage that it sustained during evasive maneuvers earlier on. but still... 0.54 and one bullet and the damage decal pops up?

Example3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hJwvNsxeLQ&feature=youtu.be

Track download: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/14123055/150414-1.trk?dl=1



extra bonus from a different mission, this one just makes me laugh/cry every time i watch it... because I can't even hear the bullet hit.

perspective 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8AmOe8xCis&feature=youtu.be

perspective 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQi5pWkdwIo&feature=youtu.be

[hnbdgr]

Please note that some damage decals might not be shown but the plane will have the damage.
In other words, there could be damage on the plane, just not visible.

It seems to be working on the 109. Get a bullet = get a hole or two holes or a torn flap etc. without fail. Are you saying that this is known and classified as a bug? If so that's an explanation I can live with - If I know it's being looked at in the future.

[RAF74_Buzzsaw]

All aircraft are affected the same by damage created by gunfire.

Value 1 damage: Value 1 drag effect

[Mrmaverick]

Is there somewhere people can put there screen shots of damage then someone could make a calender for the desktop with the pics?
used to be some good ones with il2 1946 shots. plus to see the damage some people are being delt out. be good viewing.

[SG1_Lud]

Coming back to topic, I was interested in this thread because if have found too this frustating issue of hitting an enemy a/c and she continues (at least apparently) happily flying.

It is not too often, though. 1 in 10 cases, ( I estimate).

Among my group we have a mantra, when we see that 2 or 3 of us are attacking the same plane with no results after several hits, let it go! We assume this one of these cases in which we have little to win and much to lose (normally a mid air because of the increasing frustration, or tunnel vision ending in a shameless kill for the enemy unseen a/c :D)

Our fellow hnbdgr was serious enough to put up some video examples and tracks, something that I was too lazy to do, (thank you!).

I hope these evidences are noticed despite the thread hijack.

I often discuss this with red pilots this issue,'(cos I fly only 10% of the time red and I need their input) and they say that when they get hit, they get serious damage. And if they get no damage was because there were no real hits. This has been my experience as well flying red planes. And I have to recall here a great truth but not often heared: "if you complaint about the other side advantage, go fly the other side"

I assume also that there will be red pilots wich have experienced the same frustration, this thread is a good opportunity to hear them too.

I hear also the fact that there could be no visual decals, but there is actual damage. This is true, but imo does not cover all the cases, as I have witnessed real impacts with no apparent effect on enemy a/c behaviour. (Side note. Definition of apparent: after an attack, and despite I confirm hits, I get no improvement in the combat situation and I have to behave as if no hits were achieved.)

I have observed also that this has been greatly improved by TF patches.:thumbsup:

Because I assume that almost everyone in this community is telling the truth, and palying fairly, after all this long time flying COD I came to the idea that maybe this is an issue with the ping in the multiplayer environment.

What if all of us are right, and the multiplayer code is fooling us, and all of those arguments from either side are correct at the same time?

Because timing is more critical in high deflection shooting, and the characteristics of german ammo (speed, cadency, etc) that would explain why it could happen more to blue than reds. (If I am right to believe so). B&Z red pilots or red pilots firing in high deflection angles should have experience this more often than those firing from dead astern.

This is in line with other observations of mine, by which in a local host or low ping connection, this is not an issue.

Those who have been since the beginning will remember weird things happening in this sim. Also this theory is coherent with the storyline of COD. I am thinking of one of those patches back in time, when Luthier itself had to admit that there were discrepancies between the graphically represented a/c position and the actual computed one.

I wonder if someone has enough information to say if this is possible or reject this theory.

At least it would settle down a some of the 'red vs blues' conspiracy theories. :)

I assume also that in that case, this would be a major thing to fix (and probably better not touching anything and keep the best multiplayer code that exist in flight sims) :)


~S~

[trademe900]

When this patch first came out, I tested this drag modelling with atag beserker. I flew hurricane at 285Mph and have him shoot a burst of machine gun at my right wing to damage it. I was amazed at the difference in speed, only getting 215 mph after that 7.9mm mg damage to the wing. If you have any doubts about this, try it this way and test it yourself.

[SG1_Lud]

When this patch first came out, I tested this drag modelling with atag beserker. I flew hurricane at 285Mph and have him shoot a burst of machine gun at my right wing to damage it. I was amazed at the difference in speed, only getting 215 mph after that 7.9mm mg damage to the wing. If you have any doubts about this, try it this way and test it yourself.

I trust you.

Please read my post again.

~S~

[trademe900]

Wasn't aimed at your post. I know what you're saying m8.

[SG1_Lud]

Wasn't aimed at your post. I know what you're saying m8.

Ok sorry:thumbsup:

[ATAG_Snapper]

Message from the moderator:

Hi everyone,

I had removed this thread for a short time in order to delete some offensive posts made by an ATAG member. I also removed the related responses since these posts were rendered out of context as a result. Posts are rarely deleted on this forum as a matter of policy; this was a rare exception.

The views expressed by this ATAG member were unfortunate and do not reflect the views of the ATAG membership. On behalf of ATAG I apologize for the offending remarks.

This has been an excellent topic and and excellent thread. Let the discussion continue!

Sincerely,

Snapper

[Mattias]

Thank you snapper! :thumbsup:

[SG1_Lud]

Message from the moderator:

Hi everyone,

I had removed this thread for a short time in order to delete some offensive posts made by an ATAG member. I also removed the related responses since these posts were rendered out of context as a result. Posts are rarely deleted on this forum as a matter of policy; this was a rare exception.

The views expressed by this ATAG member were unfortunate and do not reflect the views of the ATAG membership. On behalf of ATAG I apologize for the offending remarks.

This has been an excellent topic and and excellent thread. Let the discussion continue!

Sincerely,

Snapper

Thank you Snapper.


~S~

[Tettric]

It seems to be working on the 109. Get a bullet = get a hole or two holes or a torn flap etc. without fail. Are you saying that this is known and classified as a bug? If so that's an explanation I can live with - If I know it's being looked at in the future.

Just out of curiosity, which aircraft was player controlled when you recorded then track?

[ATAG_Endless]

It could just be that you are not seeing the damage due to graphics but the spit pilot could see the damage

[vranac]

Hi, I have watched your track and never noticed that problem on my track recordings. Actually, I was flying that mission in the same time as you on the blue side.
I think that the problem may be in a cannon loadout. I'm using 0 and 1 shells (can't look at the game now) on 109E3 and they are very effective for me.
You can see those numbers in your user.ini file in documents and El gringo made some post here listing ammo types with numbers in user.ini.

Nice flying by the way.

[31st_ff_yellow(26)]

Hi, I have watched your track and never noticed that problem on my track recordings. Actually, I was flying that mission in the same time as you on the blue side.
I think that the problem may be in a cannon loadout. I'm using 0 and 1 shells (can't look at the game now) on 109E3 and they are very effective for me.
You can see those numbers in your user.ini file in documents and El gringo made some post here listing ammo types with numbers in user.ini.

Nice flying by the way.

hey everybody


i notice that also but its not an all the time thing...

i use also cannon shells like 0 + 1 mixed between left and right and i see the inpacts of the rounds as well but i cant see that the "red" enemy become
some problems withit...
with the machineguns (7.9ers) filled with !!!only!!! "phosphore spitz geschoss" i can see the hits as well as the cannon hits but i notice some damages
with water coolant or oil leakes.... some get in fire but very rare...

to shoot at a flak with the 20mm cannon is everytime a "kill" with only 1 bullet out of both cannons ( means 2 rounds in one run )


someone tould me that this is an "ping" issue but if i go to a lobby-server created from a friend and with nearly the same number of ping ( 280 - 320 ms ) i see
a different result...
also if i fly "offline" in a singleplayer mission... every hit what i land with the cannon take directly concequences to the "enemy" fighter...


its not a problem for me at all the time but sometimes i also get frustrated to see "no-effect" with !!!20mm!!! cannon shells in a plane...

[hnbdgr]

Just out of curiosity, which aircraft was player controlled when you recorded then track?

Hi Tettric,

I was in the 109 and the reds were player controlled. no ai in the machines when I fired on them afaik.

[hnbdgr]

Hi, I have watched your track and never noticed that problem on my track recordings. Actually, I was flying that mission in the same time as you on the blue side.
I think that the problem may be in a cannon loadout. I'm using 0 and 1 shells (can't look at the game now) on 109E3 and they are very effective for me.
You can see those numbers in your user.ini file in documents and El gringo made some post here listing ammo types with numbers in user.ini.

Nice flying by the way.

Hi Vranac,

I have recently changed my settings and now use high on most including decals and special effects etc. One thing i did notice that there were 2 bullet holes(bullet not canon) on the hurri after the pass. So it did take some minor damage it seems...?

Another thing is loadout. You're right my loadouts on the E-3 were all over the place. I have now settled on 1 4, Panzer Phosphor & Brandgranate for the E-3. I tested these in SP missions (followed el gringos post re user.ini) and they seem quite good.

Lastly thanks for the compliment! S!

[hnbdgr]

@ SG1_LUD

Maybe it would be good to have a 1 red vs 1 blue sortie, have both people record tracks and then check them afterwards. If hits & damage are the same, then there should be no problem.

[vranac]

hey everybody


i notice that also but its not an all the time thing...

i use also cannon shells like 0 + 1 mixed between left and right and i see the inpacts of the rounds as well but i cant see that the "red" enemy become
some problems withit...
.
.

its not a problem for me at all the time but sometimes i also get frustrated to see "no-effect" with !!!20mm!!! cannon shells in a plane...

Hi, I know it can be frustrating sometime but the point is you got to hit essential parts. My suggestion to all that have doubts about DM, record tracks and watch them.
Change side and fly a few weeks to get some insight how that really affects the opposite side.

On this video you can see the damage from a closer distance.
Compliments to TF, effects are looking great.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVulGZQ20Os

[31st_ff_yellow(26)]

Hi, I know it can be frustrating sometime but the point is you got to hit essential parts. My suggestion to all that have doubts about DM, record tracks and watch them.
Change side and fly a few weeks to get some insight how that really affects the opposite side.

On this video you can see the damage from a closer distance.
Compliments to TF, effects are looking great.



hey vranac,

i flew the other side as well and have about 1200+ hours on the spit also i try it after 4.312... can say its much easyer now as before
to fly a spitfire...

but thatz not the point...

i loocked your video and yeah, nice hits and YES very very nice effects from TF !!! i really like that BUT...

now the point what we talk about...
you see how many times you hit them with the 20mm canon and you see also how many things fly away from
the spit or hurry but the effect of DM is not really the boost...

may be you see the one or the other guncam video from WWII from shooting to an enemy plane and you
can see that only a view hits are enought for them to go down...

here in clod you can hite them and hit them with 20mm but the effect is not really the hit...

if a spitfire hit YOU in a 109, you dont need a lot of to go down but thatz not an 20mm what they have but
the effect is hmm... how to say... bombastic...

the point is, i for my self want to know why that is so ?
i want to understand the different between .303ers and 20millimeters...

[hnbdgr]

if a spitfire hit YOU in a 109, you dont need a lot of to go down but thatz not an 20mm what they have but
the effect is hmm... how to say... bombastic...


Well to be fair the 303's will rarely cause bombastic damage to me, I've never seen a stabilizer or an aileron falling off of my 109... But you don't need much damage in the 109 to be forced to rtb. Water radiator is the most dangerous and most commonly obtained hit. as seen here(posted earlier):

perspective 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8AmOe8xCis&feature=youtu.be

perspective 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQi5pWkdwIo&feature=youtu.be

[vranac]

Nothing is wrong there. That's 109E3 without M-geschoss. Video just shows that you got to hit essential parts.
If it was E4, first Hurri would be without a tail very probably.
Like here. That happens very often.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idbuftxgsoQ

Usually one hit in a wing is enough to brake it and if not first high G maneuver will.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AA4_Ub0czCU

http://www.dodaj.rs/t/B/lA/39Q37rYD/hurri-wing.jpg (http://www.dodaj.rs/?B/lA/39Q37rYD/hurri-wing.jpg)

[31st_ff_yellow(26)]

LOOK THIS VIDEO GUYS, I THINK SOMETHING IS WRONG WITH THE DAMAGE SHOTS

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVulGZQ20Os

thatz exactly that what i say....

but if the spitfire with .303ers shoot to a 109 you get with a singlehit an total damage...
if you write something like that in the chat you earn some "stupide" answers from someone from atag also same i become
before 2 days...

everything different if you fly OFFLINE !!!

a shoot offline to some enemy fighters and you can bekome an enemy flammable...

90% what i shoot "ONLINE" on atag's on my targets dont have any results for them... only for me...

so and someone can say now again... wanna have chees for whining now.... umpf...

its not funny anymore online.... really...

~cheers~

[vranac]

thatz exactly that what i say....

but if the spitfire with .303ers shoot to a 109 you get with a singlehit an total damage...
.
.
its not funny anymore online.... really...

~cheers~

Take 109E1 then and aim for radiators or cockpit.

Do you want me to make video flying in 109E4 hitting two Spits in a rad in a very short time? Or two quick pilot kills (before 4.3)?

Practice, practice,... and may the force be with you ;-)

[hnbdgr]

I think given that it is an E-3 and hurris can take a lot of punishment and the shooting wasn't concentrated on a critical part, it's not necessarily a proof of a broken Damage model.

However, the lack of damage decals on the wings is a bit surprising. After so many hits, you'd expect to see something on those wings. Many have stated earlier that the damage is there even though it's not visible.

So in short what we have seems to be a damage decal problem rather then damage model problem. Or so it seems to me. I supposed TF have it on their list of things to do, so we shall see.

As for the bullet damage - the issue might be you can't always hear when it hits you. I came to that conclusion recently. I've seen a lot of damage indicators all of a sudden, but no hit sounds... Doesn't always happen that way, but I had it happen to me at least twice in the last 2 weeks.

[vranac]

Don't mix up flashes from MG with cannon shells.

Unfortunately devs lowered down a number of small caliber damage decals a lot in one of the patches to improve gameplay
for the people with lower end PC's. Let us hope that TF will find a way to bring it back.

[31st_ff_yellow(26)]

Take 109E1 then and aim for radiators or cockpit.

Do you want me to make video flying in 109E4 hitting two Spits in a rad in a very short time? Or two quick pilot kills (before 4.3)?

Practice, practice,... and may the force be with you ;-)

hey vranac,

that is not the problem...
and it is also not a problematic about m-geschoss because in "OFFLINE" mode, means in singleplayer mission/campagne there is
destuction on any enemy fighter... but thatz the same mod 4.312 or im completly wrong !!!???

so where that different comes from !?!?

if i hit the enemy ( equal with witch weapon ) the enemy plane have to take damage same my player plane ( mostly e-3 / e-3b )

the only what i read from your post is "a mix of gun-shells" that what make me wann test something because
if i fire my 20mm gun, also my 2 mg's are firing at same time...

i will try to make it seperatly and see there is a different or not but that test not kicks out the different that my
"double-shoot" strategy works fine with "OFFLINE" gaming...

i will report if there is a difference after tonight flying ;)

[vranac]

Hi yellow,
I mentioned "before 4.3" only because of the bug with HE rounds and PK.

I don't have any experience offline ( very short at the release) but I think AI will bail out after damage, even smaller one.
Someone with more experience can correct me if I'm wrong.

I know how many times I landed even without elevators and it may look like an aeroplane is turning in front of you.
The most of the pilots will try that even if heavily damaged.
Ping can be an issue but only if it varies a lot or there are packet losses. If its constant it should be ok.

S!

[Mattias]

LOOK THIS VIDEO GUYS, I THINK SOMETHING IS WRONG WITH THE DAMAGE SHOTS


:salute:

For some reason, the hit effects often gets messed up on tracks recorded in MP, making MG hits look like HE cannon hit.
So, to me it looks like the Hurricane received some good damage from the few hits that were actually HE cannon hits. The many other hits were probably MG hits.

I have a track I recorded in MP where I know I only put 1-2 cannon rounds on target, but when I look at the track every MG hit looks like a cannon hit :D

Here it is. The Hurricane attacked in the beginning got a lot of cannon hits and went down, but the Spitfire I attacked next only received 1-2 cannon hits "IRL":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTAJeo1BVZo

In other words, the bug lays in the recorder/trackplayer and not the DM. :thumbsup:

Cheers/m

[31st_ff_yellow(26)]

Hi yellow,
I mentioned "before 4.3" only because of the bug with HE rounds and PK.

I don't have any experience offline ( very short at the release) but I think AI will bail out after damage, even smaller one.
Someone with more experience can correct me if I'm wrong.

I know how many times I landed even without elevators and it may look like an aeroplane is turning in front of you.
The most of the pilots will try that even if heavily damaged.
Ping can be an issue but only if it varies a lot or there are packet losses. If its constant it should be ok.

S!

hey vranac,

ahm, no, i dont mean that the AI will bailout quickley, i mean that i can see the damage what i give them and
i have also many hits where the enemy get in fire, black smoke from oil, damaged radiators, some PK's everything what i miss
on an online server...

the ping can not be important because if i can see that my bullets hit on the enemy plane and i see the explosions from my
20mm HE rounds but there get no damage on the enemy plane, than must be something directly wrong...

this i want to understand... where is the problem, why is it, and how can it be cleared out...

with TF 4.3 i see many good kills with broken engines, wings or other structure victories but the HE was buggy... i dont know because
if you believe the logic, the logic tell me that if a HE-Bullet hit me, my plane or some parts of my plane, the will devinitively explode and
this explosion will result in damage or sometimes if the hit comes close to the pilot it will have also an PK...

if someone talk different about that, they can say also that the sky is green...

im wrong with that ?

but... wait me, i will try that MG / Gun seperate thing...



@ mattias

Damn nice gun cam !!!
if i take out my glas and sit back, it looks for me same a real video from WWII...
very very nice !!!

[31st_ff_yellow(26)]

No difference between MG's + Gun's fires together or not...

today @ ATAG's one spitfire in front of me shooting !!!ALL!!! my 120 20mm rounds on him but no hit on him...
with the MG's i can hit him and i see that him radiator will be damaged but the 20mm'ers goes inside same in a ghost...

i try it on an different server and just shoot on an friendly AI... every shoot an hit...

what happen there ?!
where is the logic of this ?!

[Catseye]

No difference between MG's + Gun's fires together or not...

today @ ATAG's one spitfire in front of me shooting !!!ALL!!! my 120 20mm rounds on him but no hit on him...
with the MG's i can hit him and i see that him radiator will be damaged but the 20mm'ers goes inside same in a ghost...

i try it on an different server and just shoot on an friendly AI... every shoot an hit...

what happen there ?!
where is the logic of this ?!

What type of 20 mm rounds did you have loaded?

[Mattias]

@ mattias

Damn nice gun cam !!!
if i take out my glas and sit back, it looks for me same a real video from WWII...
very very nice !!!

:salute:

I'm very glad to hear you like it :thumbsup:

Cheers/m

[ATAG_Endless]

The hardest place to down a spit is dead six
In order to do most damage is at an angle aiming for the engine and sweeping your rounds down the airframe
That's why it's important to work on your deflection shooting and also knowing at what distance your convergence is most effective

[31st_ff_yellow(26)]

What type of 20 mm rounds did you have loaded?

Catseye,
i use 0,2 left and 2,0 in the right gun... this will change with every shoot between right and left...
( means sprenggranatpatrone, panzergranatpatrone )


The hardest place to down a spit is dead six
In order to do most damage is at an angle aiming for the engine and sweeping your rounds down the airframe
That's why it's important to work on your deflection shooting and also knowing at what distance your convergence is most effective

Endless,
i know my convergence and also when to shoot and where but that will only work OFFLINE...
if i shoot ONLINE i can see the hits from my bullets at the target but it take no effect !!!

if i shoot on a "FLAK" on the ground... a single shoot is enought to kill them, but if i shoot an a plane by "zoom and boom"
i can shoot from above or shoot from below same what i like to do that the enemy dont see or check me coming and i see
how my bullets hit on them but there is "nothing"... i say i can really hit with damage 1 from 10 planes... other than in
singleplayer... there is nearly every shoot an hit and you can see what happen on the plane where you hit them...

also i never see same effects ONLINE what i can see OFFLINE so i also ask me... why is there a difference...

if i have installed the TF 4.312 patch, than it must work in both modes (On/Offline) and same without difference...

... and yes sir, i try it and install everything new, also i try from vanilla to 4.312 step by step with everytime clear my cache folder ;)

i try to upload 2 pics from OFFLINE shooting where you can see easy the damages...

9393

9394

[istruba]

Hello there people, first time posting on the forums.

Since .312 I've been experiencing the same problems as Yellow described, and my friends from =OKA= also noticed how hard it is to shoot down spitfires now. Dont know why, they simply soak too much cannon shells! Either that or the damage from cannons are too low.

On the other hand... a single .303 bullet is able to make a 109 out of action.

[31st_ff_yellow(26)]

welcome in club istruba ;)

btw... i try to shoot today only with the MG's and can shoot down a hurry with smoking engine...

i think there is a big lag problem with the guns...
its really boring...

[No.54 Ghost (KL-G)]

On the other hand... a single .303 bullet is able to make a 109 out of action.

yeah... if you hit the pilot. other than that it takes a lot more than "a single .303". also (and this has been brought up before many times) how do you know that you got a single hit when you have 8 MG´s firing at 1200 RPM? its just not very likely.

what 31st_ff_yellow(26) is bringing up might be a glitch and im sure its being looked at, but saying stuff like "one .303 bullet = kill" just makes the thread look unserious to me.

[trademe900]

how do you know that you got a single hit when you have 8 MG´s firing at 1200 RPM? its just not very likely.


It's overlooked much of the time, but 8 mgs can be seriously potent with that monstrous rate of fire able to shred an airframe head to tail with a quick rake of fire. If there are going to be any hits, the chances of just a couple are minimal.

[hnbdgr]

It's overlooked much of the time, but 8 mgs can be seriously potent with that monstrous rate of fire able to shred an airframe head to tail with a quick rake of fire. If there are going to be any hits, the chances of just a couple are minimal.

As posted above, it could be that we're not hearing all the bullets impacting. I get really frustrated when this happens to me:

perforated rads - perspective 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8AmOe8xCis&feature=youtu.be

perforated rads - perspective 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQi5pWkdwIo&feature=youtu.be

So a random perforated rad when all you heard was one *thud* or even didn't hear anything is frustrating.

Apart from the above, every time I let myself get caught it plays out like this:

First hit is usually at around 0.40 distance and most of the time its dewilde ammo that burns off a bit of my wing giving me a massive 20kph penalty. Then I get caught because I can't run away anymore and after a short series of evasive maneuvers always end up catching fire.

[No.54 Ghost (KL-G)]

As posted above, it could be that we're not hearing all the bullets impacting....

i think this is a solid theory.

[31st_ff_yellow(26)]

yeah... if you hit the pilot. other than that it takes a lot more than "a single .303". also (and this has been brought up before many times) how do you know that you got a single hit when you have 8 MG´s firing at 1200 RPM? its just not very likely.

what 31st_ff_yellow(26) is bringing up might be a glitch and im sure its being looked at, but saying stuff like "one .303 bullet = kill" just makes the thread look unserious to me.

and there is it again....

sounds like "yellow is a whiner"

that there is something very wrong since 4.312 is fact and i dont fly since yesterday, also i dont fly since CloD...


and its not only a PK what stop a 109 easy its only one burst of that puppy bullets called .303 with hearing only one hit and
your engine is deadly dead included the radiators, oil tanks and everything what can be broken in 1 secound...
but the 20mm dont take effect... only optically when you see the impact...

you dont look at the screens i uploaded ?!

and you dont read all the thread seriously ?!

so and for this i say it again...

it is a BIG different between Online and Offline DM or Ammo thing...
without a logical for me... i still dont understand where is the problem, i only see it and its not only me...

...soon DCS WWII will come out... this i can wait for and im very hopefully that there is not a problem like this...


BTW... i like what Team Fusion do everything with that Simulator !!! hands upand Big thanx for all that but if
something not 100% the peoples who play it, have to tell them that they know...

no talking = dont know = think everything is very the best and works fine...

[kaliber]

and there is it again....

sounds like "yellow is a whiner"

that there is something very wrong since 4.312 is fact and i dont fly since yesterday, also i dont fly since CloD...


and its not only a PK what stop a 109 easy its only one burst of that puppy bullets called .303 with hearing only one hit and
your engine is deadly dead included the radiators, oil tanks and everything what can be broken in 1 secound...
but the 20mm dont take effect... only optically when you see the impact...

you dont look at the screens i uploaded ?!

and you dont read all the thread seriously ?!

so and for this i say it again...

it is a BIG different between Online and Offline DM or Ammo thing...
without a logical for me... i still dont understand where is the problem, i only see it and its not only me...

...soon DCS WWII will come out... this i can wait for and im very hopefully that there is not a problem like this...


BTW... i like what Team Fusion do everything with that Simulator !!! hands upand Big thanx for all that but if
something not 100% the peoples who play it, have to tell them that they know...

no talking = dont know = think everything is very the best and works fine...

Nobody's calling you a whiner, we just don't see the same problems you describe. I fly both sides regularly and find it amusing that the old adage "grass is greener on the other side" applies here.

You also have to realize you only hurt your own evidence and arguments when you say stuff like you got hit by 1 bullet and it took out your engines, well people are less likely to listen to what you have to say when you make statements that are improbable and kinda ridiculous. I understand your frustration but you're just hurting your own cause.

[No.54 Ghost (KL-G)]

and there is it again....

sounds like "yellow is a whiner"

how did you get that from what i wrote???
if there is a problem im sure TF will look into it. bringing up stuff that might be wrong is NOT whining.
and never did i call you a whiner.
i only say that claiming one .303 will bring down a 109 is ridiculous since there is almost no way a single .303 will ever hit you. it will be followed by a lot of .303´s. and yes if a few of those hit your radiator you will go down eventually. nothing wrong with that in my opinion. the same goes for the spit and hurry.

please correct me if im wrong, but i think you will have something like 160 bullets coming out from the 8 mg´s every second. the likely hod of only one of them hitting you is rather small since the guy sending them does every thing he can to hit you.

[vranac]

I promise, I'll make more videos shooting down 3-4 spitty hurries in a quick succession even with Me109E3 :D

[31st_ff_yellow(26)]

i still sign out from this thread and save my time for better things...

if many peoples still have same problem as the thread are opened and write here than is something wrong but its not the pilote i can tell...

for me alone its not important that something is wrong have to be fixed...
i can fly offline also and i still can fly with the DCS p-51 by waiting for DCS WWII

~S!~

[Attila]

Maybe it has something to do with your Ping Yellow? Ballermann says he is hitting nothing on ATAG server, but we all knows that he is a real good sniper on Dogfight server (better Ping)!
:idea:

[Robo.]

It might be a lag / ping issue. On the other hand, if you see hits then you score hits - this sim's DM is client based. The only lag that happens is on the other guy's client, e.g. he will get black screen 1 second after you hit him. Sometimes though, when there is some packet loss, information about damage doesn't make it through. This is an issue in all online games and this is why offline differs from online. Lots of comms between client - server - client and back has to happen in very very short time. It is annoying but it's not a bug really, it's just what Internet is. You will get this in DCS as well when flown on a busy server.

Also, the things look quite differently if you sit in the plane that is being shot at. You might think there is nothing going on and he just keeps on flying, but from his perspective he's done for. Sometimes, a lucky short burst will do catastrophic damage and sometimes you hit him well, but he won't even leak. Many times I've been surprised to see the enemy bail out after what looked like minor damage and many times it's other way around. I quite like that about this sim, it's not like broken wings and explosions like in old 1946.

I don't know how to convince you, I only smile when someone says one bullet got me down. Not really, it was nice shower of .303 or fine deflection shot with dozen 20mm grenades when you didn't look. You hear bang / black and that's it. But it took more than one bullet or cannon shell to do that. And it was most likely your fault, not game engine's :thumbsup:

[hnbdgr]

I was wondering if Clod has client side detection for some time. It seems to be a good way of doing it. The nature of the game also means much less scope for surprise deaths than would be in a fast paced FPS - red orchestra 2 for instance. I found the ping on atag to be very acceptable even though it is US based. I have 150-200ms most of the time.