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ATAG_Snapper
Jan-23-2012, 01:48
Ribbs asked me an interesting question tonight on Teamspeak: What is the scale of the map we fly on the ATAG Server? I had always assumed the scale was 1:1, but he felt that we are flying over the Channel much too quickly for that. Other sims he's flown the maps were 3/4 scale or some such.

Does anyone know the actual scale of the server map?

Jimbop
Jan-23-2012, 02:35
Good question. Narrowest channel width is 21 miles at the Straight of Dover so should take 6 minutes at 210 mph. Seems about right to me but will time it next time I'm online if no-one does it first.

ATAG_Bliss
Jan-23-2012, 02:37
I've always assumed it was 1:1. But I'm not 100% positive on that.

ATAG_Torian
Jan-23-2012, 06:45
Watching a documentary a few nites ago on the bob where they took u on a tour
of RAF Hawkinge war museum (wrecks of over 600 planes there). They said
Hawkinge was known as "hellfire corner" as it was only a few minutes flying time
from France which is about what it is on the server map. Appears 1:1 to me but
can't say for sure.

Furious
Jan-23-2012, 08:13
Got a feeling its 1:2 map.

ATAG_EvangelusE
Jan-23-2012, 08:17
Seems close to 1:1 as far as I can tell. Cannons Channel Map for IL2 was a reduced scaling and you could tell (great map contribution non the less). As mentioned, Dover to Calais is only 21 miles - it's a bloody good job that there was no Channel Tunnel linking France and the UK back then - we wouldn't have a BoB sim if there had of been........the sods would have driven in..........:)

ATAG_Snapper
Jan-23-2012, 08:28
The Chunnel Authority would've just doubled the fare and bankrupted the invading Nazis. Marching up Whitehall would be out of the question on an empty stomach -- no money for tea 'n crumpets! Could there possibly be any other outcome?

Dutch
Jan-23-2012, 09:39
Hah. We'd've just blown the silly tunnel up beforehand. Come to that, maybe we still should.

ATAG_Colander
Jan-23-2012, 11:44
Maybe this would help (thanks to Google maps).

424

ATAG_Snapper
Jan-23-2012, 11:56
It does! Advanced math on a Monday hurts my head, but I figure if I fly my Spit at a steady 200 mph when I cross low over the English coast as indicated and keep a heading of (roughly) 315 degrees (- 10 degrees magnetic.....or is it +10??? Nevermind - not critical): I should hit the French coast at precisely 7.5 hours later.

(Just checking to see if you're paying attention, ol' chap) :Grin:

ATAG_Colander
Jan-23-2012, 12:36
200 mph = 321.8 kph
Diagonal in the map above = 40 Km

40 Km / 321.8 Kph = 0.1243 Hours
0.1243 Hours = 7.45 Minutes

We need to time this on the game but 7.5 minutes @ 200mph (321.8kph) sounds about right.

Colander

Doc
Jan-23-2012, 12:43
I think map is to scale. Think it's the fuel efficiency that is incorrect.

Watch this of Galland


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5XG0LYz5B4

Galland states "we had maybe 5 to 7 minutes over London then we had to turn back.

This means...

We have fighter bases along the coast of France where historically their weren't any and they came from some other location deeper inside France.

Or

They did and didn't take a full load of fuel for their mission - can't think of a reason not to so it's only my theory.

Or

We are getting a lot better fuel efficiency than what plane of that period actually got in real life.

The last is what I am betting is the case.

ATAG_Colander
Jan-23-2012, 13:05
Caffiers to London:
110Miles = 177Kilometers

Two way trip:
220 Miles = 354 Kilometers

Plane Speed:
200 mph = 321.8 kph

This gives us above 1 hour flying by which time a 109 is very low on fuel on the game.

Again, We will need to time this flight in game.

Doc
Jan-23-2012, 13:27
Caffiers to London:
110Miles = 177Kilometers

Two way trip:
220 Miles = 354 Kilometers

Plane Speed:
200 mph = 321.8 kph

This gives us above 1 hour flying by which time a 109 is very low on fuel on the game.

Again, We will need to time this flight in game.

:no I bet the guys that fly red are not interested in blue testing that out lol at best we'll end up having a few holes in the tanks and run out before the hour is up.

Dutch
Jan-23-2012, 13:44
It's the same channel map online or offline isn't it?

Easy enough to test offline.

The pre-release hype always said it was full scale, so I'll give it a whirl.:)

Doc
Jan-23-2012, 13:49
It's the same channel map online or offline isn't it?

Easy enough to test offline.

The pre-release hype always said it was full scale, so I'll give it a whirl.:)


Thanks!

I'd do it off line and still would be looking for contacts. Paranoid

ATAG_Snapper
Jan-23-2012, 14:23
OK, here's what I got:

I changed the route slightly to give me better landmarks to aim at: the tip of the "English point" (near Dungeness) to the tip of the "French point" (near Wissant). The in-game map tools shows it to be exactly 26 miles point-to-point, which is in agreement, IMHO, with the 25 mile distance you provided for the slightly different start/stop points you selected via google maps.

Holding 200 mph at approx 500 feet altitude, my time was 7:25, my calculator says it should've been 7:48. Pretty darn close considering the slight course corrections, plus trim and boost corrections. For those interested, I took a Rotol with 100% fuel (can't be too stingy on gas here), boost was mainly 0 lbs, rpms set to 2500, radiator half closed.

Other than a little bit of flak near Wissant, no one bothered me in this otherwise "hot" combat zone with 13 109's and a 110 swanning about. LOL

I think I can tell Ribbs the map is 1:1 as far as our travel time based on cockpit instruments is concerned.

Doc
Jan-23-2012, 15:00
Awesome Snapper :thumbsup: Thanks for testing this.

III./ZG76_Keller
Jan-23-2012, 15:07
Galland states "we had maybe 5 to 7 minutes over London then we had to turn back.

This means...

We have fighter bases along the coast of France where historically their weren't any and they came from some other location deeper inside France.

Or

They did and didn't take a full load of fuel for their mission - can't think of a reason not to so it's only my theory.

Or

We are getting a lot better fuel efficiency than what plane of that period actually got in real life.

The last is what I am betting is the case.

I forget where I read it but someone noted in a similar topic that there was a considerable amount of time spent climbing, forming up, and waiting for bombers before even turning for England. Unlike CLOD, fighters mostly went to England to protect the bombers, not just to mix it up with other fighters.

Dutch
Jan-23-2012, 16:00
Here you go gents. Not timed to the second but near enough.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyEtSxmP5to

A lot quicker than the ferry anyway. :Grin:

Dutch
Jan-23-2012, 16:10
I forget where I read it but someone noted in a similar topic that there was a considerable amount of time spent climbing, forming up, and waiting for bombers before even turning for England. Unlike CLOD, fighters mostly went to England to protect the bombers, not just to mix it up with other fighters.

Yep, plus they'd need to get back with a minimum reserve of fuel in hand as always in any a/c.

Anyone know what this was?

LG1.Farber
Jan-23-2012, 16:11
The map is 1:1.

The fuel is fine. as some one else said they were hanging around, climbing and forming up...

If you ever want to measure something like that again use this handy method!
FMB, Place an aircraft, set the speed between the two waypoints the same, ie 200/300 what ever... see what the time says, ie 12:07. So you know its 7 mins at 200mph. Use Speed = distance over time. :Grin:

O and dont forget when you trying to find time you will get a decimal of an hour. So you need to 100/60=0.6

So 0.6 times your answer...

Doc
Jan-23-2012, 17:06
The map is 1:1.

The fuel is fine. as some one else said they were hanging around, climbing and forming up...

If you ever want to measure something like that again use this handy method!
FMB, Place an aircraft, set the speed between the two waypoints the same, ie 200/300 what ever... see what the time says, ie 12:07. So you know its 7 mins at 200mph. Use Speed = distance over time. :Grin:

O and dont forget when you trying to find time you will get a decimal of an hour. So you need to 100/60=0.6

So 0.6 times your answer...


LOL

Why didn't I think of this? Good call!

ATAG_Snapper
Jan-23-2012, 17:23
Aw, c'mon, Farber's way is far too easy and accurate! LOL

Well, now back to checking if the photocopier got all the numbers right on that spreadsheet I xerox'd.........


BTW Thanks, Farber! :)

LG1.Farber
Jan-24-2012, 13:51
Ive made far too many missions in FMB (old IL2).

Ive just recently revamped our training information on Navigation. Navigation is pretty hardcore. :eek:

ATAG_Snapper
Jan-24-2012, 14:30
Thanks again for the FMB tip, Farber. I hope I didn't come off as rude by being flippant.

That little hop across the Channel was an eye-opener. Took quite a few aborted attempts before I could even say "Good enough" -- so many parameters to go out of whack so easily while trying to fly precisely.

LG1.Farber
Jan-25-2012, 14:23
Your alright by me Snapper. I saw the sarcasim/humour.

Yea we have been doing three point navigation exercises this week based mostly on instruments. Its very easy to come off course and to keep your speed exact. The good thing about my tip is the AI will fly at that exact speed and trimmed out, never deviating.

O and about the decimal of an hour, Its only true if you are after minutes. For example if it says 1.5 its 1 hour thirty, 1:25 is 1 hour 15 minutes. Another thing the FMB rounds up to the nearest minute! So if you are working out many way points you could be out by up to 1 minute per waypoint.

S!

Doc
Jan-25-2012, 14:27
Oh man thanks for the advice from both of you. I learn something new every day about this. But then again I probably forget something about it every day to!

LG1.Farber
Jan-25-2012, 14:28
Wanna know how wide France is East to West? 60 German Panzer hours! :laugh1

Robo.
Jan-26-2012, 05:11
Good thread chaps - the part of the channel we're fighting at is really that narrow, jeez.

This is a pic I took while flying home from Heathrow - looks familiar ey?? :thumbsup:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/10668862/misc/IMG_4663.JPG

ATAG_Snapper
Jan-26-2012, 09:45
Robo, that is cool! :dthumb:

Doc
Jan-26-2012, 10:10
Radar station at G7 :thumbsup:

ATAG_Colander
Jan-26-2012, 14:00
That pic was missing something...

434

Jimbop
Jan-26-2012, 16:59
Nice addition. What airfield were you flying into, Robo?

Doc
Jan-26-2012, 17:09
That pic was missing something...

434

I predict a photoshop contest now. Let me get a 109 and slide that in behind that spitty and post it lol

Robo.
Jan-27-2012, 06:13
Ahh :dthumb:

@jimbop - Vienna (Schwechat)

Jimbop
Jan-27-2012, 16:36
Makes sense - I did the same flight last year and had a similar view. I just saw your location was Nottingham and thought your pilot must have been lost!

ATAG_Ribbs
Jan-27-2012, 23:00
Im just wondering where hes been hiding those CANNONS! heh :eek: My Spitty dosent look like that! :no