Looking around during dogfights

[alligatorlizard]

Hi,

Recently got ClOD set up and patched, was a fan of the original Il2 game, this is definitely even better - glad I skipped the initial release though!!

It's taken a while to figure out the online play, but now I'm starting to get used to it, how to navigate, where to go to find other planes etc (been using the main ATAG allies vs axis server - which seems to be the only one with a significant number of players?)

However I'm finding it hard to keep track of other planes during dogfights - am using the multi-directional switch thing on the top of my Saitek Cyborg to look around, have tried using both snap and pan, but it's just seems like a basically slow and clumsy way to look around - IRL you'd obviously just turn your head while continuing to concentrate on the controls. While playing the campaign missions, I used the external enemy view a lot to keep track of other planes - but with only cockpit view allowed in the sim, I'm just losing track of enemy planes all the time while IRL I'd be able to just glance to the side and see them.

So was just wondering if there are any tricks I'm missing - do a lot of people use track IR (or whatever it's called) to look around, or is there any better way to set up the "look around" controls? For example, in other sims, you can chose the speed at which the camera pans/snaps, can't find that option here. Also, in snap mode, you can't set the camera to look directly behind you, which would be a useful view! (and hence why I usually favour pan mode - but this just takes ages to scan all around, and in the the of a dogfight it's easy to accidentally push the directional hat up or down and lose orientation altogether.

Any tips much appreciated!

[RAF74_Buzzsaw]

Track IR, (or the free alternatives) is definitely an advantage.

If you don't have it, I would recommend snap views, which you need to customize.

These should snap back to forward view once you release the HAT switch.

Use the maximum wide view as your normal view... You should also have a closeup gunsight view programmed, which also when released, snaps back to wide view.

Some very talented pilots have success with snap views.

Good luck! :salute:


Hi,

Recently got ClOD set up and patched, was a fan of the original Il2 game, this is definitely even better - glad I skipped the initial release though!!

It's taken a while to figure out the online play, but now I'm starting to get used to it, how to navigate, where to go to find other planes etc (been using the main ATAG allies vs axis server - which seems to be the only one with a significant number of players?)

However I'm finding it hard to keep track of other planes during dogfights - am using the multi-directional switch thing on the top of my Saitek Cyborg to look around, have tried using both snap and pan, but it's just seems like a basically slow and clumsy way to look around - IRL you'd obviously just turn your head while continuing to concentrate on the controls. While playing the campaign missions, I used the external enemy view a lot to keep track of other planes - but with only cockpit view allowed in the sim, I'm just losing track of enemy planes all the time while IRL I'd be able to just glance to the side and see them.

So was just wondering if there are any tricks I'm missing - do a lot of people use track IR (or whatever it's called) to look around, or is there any better way to set up the "look around" controls? For example, in other sims, you can chose the speed at which the camera pans/snaps, can't find that option here. Also, in snap mode, you can't set the camera to look directly behind you, which would be a useful view! (and hence why I usually favour pan mode - but this just takes ages to scan all around, and in the the of a dogfight it's easy to accidentally push the directional hat up or down and lose orientation altogether.

Any tips much appreciated!

[ATAG_Lewis]

Welcome to the community and forums alligatorlizard....~S~

Checkout the 'Beginners Guide'...for info and tips...It should save you a heap of time in getting up to scratch.....and its a really fun learning curve anyway..

Beginners Guide Link Here (http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5058&p=52711)

Also try youtube for startup procedures on all the aircraft

As for tracking enemy aircraft I'd suggest biting the bullet and getting TrackIR.....If you are a WWII flight sim enthusiast and even if for some freak chance you don't get on with CLOD you'll still need TrackIR for the current and future WWII flight sims no question....It is the way forward until Oculus Rift is fully operational and on the market...

Bar my joystick TrackIR is the single most influential piece of hardware I have...If it broke it I'd buy another one...I, like you loved the original IL2...and helped run Skies of Fire on Hyperlobby througout the popular years...Strangely I bought a TrackIR and could not get on with it during those years...I decided to give it another go when I first got CLOD and something very weird happened..It was very natural and with in a couple weeks I had mastered it pretty much...since then I haven't looked back (Hehe)...I think the reason for this was due to the full real environment of the ATAG server...Without 'padlock enemy aircraft' options TrackIR is a must..

Also situation awareness and visibility are a massive part of this (and any WWII flight sim)..If you are under par in that area you will be at a big disadvantage...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtCoLqV4z-g

If money is an issue there are other options...ask in this thread for links if you need them..

Any questions then you've come to the right place....

Good to have you with us buddy...and remember its all about the Fun!!!

...lew...

[alligatorlizard]

Thanks for the tips and the welcome to the forum! Just watched the track IR video that's linked to in the (very useful) beginners guide, and was most impressed - I'd previously only been vaguely aware of track ir as a concept, wasn't sure how effective it was - however I think I will definitely have to invest in it at some point. Was pleased to see you can use also track IR with Race 07 & ARMA II, in fact a huge list of games. Anyone know how much it should cost in the UK? I'm seeing prices on google shopping from £80 to £160 - which always makes me wonder what the catch is with the vastly cheaper sellers...

Till then, I'll persevere with the snap views - also, I hadn't thought of using the the wide FOV view during combat, have only really used this so far while starting engine/taking off, will give it a go. One question regarding the snap views though, is it possible to set this to give a rear view? (eg like you can get in pan view by pressing left/rigth 4 times I think) In the settings I can only find options for 135/225 degrees.

Anyway, will definitely be spending more time on the atag server - have loved flight sims since Microsoft flight sim 4 (way back in 1995!) tho tbh I've not really "flown" much since finally getting a bit bored with Flight Sim X a few years back. However after upgrading to Windows 7 figured it was time to give Cliffs of Dover a try, and I'm hooked again. It has admittedly taken me several weeks just to get everything set up right and learn how to manage those damn engines... but all worth the effort!

[ATAG_Lewis]

A couple links might interest you...

The CEM setup I still use today...

Basic Easy Allied Fighters CEM for New Players

http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9111&highlight=easy


Age Poll

http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7744&highlight=poll

[jordan.montgomery87]

Another option would be pressing F10 to lock your mouse to your view. I'm currently using this until I get TrackIR and it works fairly decent. I just use the joystick in my right hand and use the mouse in my left to look around.

[vranac]

Hi, you can also try FreeTrack. It works exactly like TrackIR when you make a good model (clip or hat).
If you have a problem with soldering LEDs you can go with this camera that has LED's on it so you only need some reflective material on your model.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/A4-Tech-PK-333MB-Webcam-Mac/dp/B004RN8VYS/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1399105935&sr=8-1-fkmr0&keywords=a4tech+pk+333mb

Here you have them both, the first is cap model and the second is clip.

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z5/jperrox/TrackIR%203%20PRO/IMG_20120513_132930.jpg
http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z5/jperrox/TrackIR%203%20PRO/IMG_20120513_132852.jpg
http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z5/jperrox/TrackIR%203%20PRO/13022011081.jpg

[palker]

The main problem with mouse look and hat switch view is that angular velocity with which you can turn your head is limited. This makes sense in turret control but if you need to look around fast in cockpit, well it makes no sense at all. I do not know if there are same limits with TIR but the fact is i can turn my real head fully to the right and then left in fraction of a second while in CoD i move my mouse fast and then watch in game point of view moving at snail's pace in the direction i moved my mouse.
And to add more frustration if you start turning in one direction and then decide to turn the other way the game first finishes the recorded movement of the mouse and only after that it starts do do what you want. To see this effect in its full ridiculousness try controlling the 88mm cannon with a high sensitivity mouse.

[ATAG_Lewis]

In the original IL2 I use to use the mouse very effectivelly...I use to switch hands to use stick with left and right on mouse in the midst of a dogfight....I got pretty good at it and felt that I could fight as well as any one that used other methods...

I still can't state enough how TrackIR (and no I don't have shares in the company..hehe) or one of the free versons is a must for CLOD.....

[ATAG_Dave]

Thanks for the tips and the welcome to the forum! Just watched the track IR video that's linked to in the (very useful) beginners guide, and was most impressed - I'd previously only been vaguely aware of track ir as a concept, wasn't sure how effective it was - however I think I will definitely have to invest in it at some point. Was pleased to see you can use also track IR with Race 07 & ARMA II, in fact a huge list of games. Anyone know how much it should cost in the UK? I'm seeing prices on google shopping from £80 to £160 - which always makes me wonder what the catch is with the vastly cheaper sellers...


If you can get a track IR for £80 then snap (unintended pun...) it up. Typical ebay price second user is £100 or so. I think the retail typical price for a new one is £140ish,. Id echo Lewis's comments - some form of head tracking (TrackNoIR is a free option amongst others) is if not essential then highly desirable/advisable. It takes a while to get used to for some folk (it took me ages to get used to it) but once you do you wont ever choose to play without it.

Good luck and welcome to CloD :thumbsup:

[Incog]

I'm a stingy fellow so I don't have Track IR nor am I looking into getting for a while. I agree that the in-game pan view (both mouse and joystick) is a mess, it's so damn slow. However I've gotten used to using slow pan view and it's been working out for me. Not as good as good Track IR but it works well nonetheless.


I have one tip: map an easy to reach button on your joystick (preferably very close to the hat-switch) to "Reset view" in the "Camera" category. Just a hit of this button will center your view again, which is very useful for two things. One, it obviously centers your view when you've lost track of where you're going. It can be used as a mental reset. Two, it reduces the amount of actions you need to perform to go from looking towards the rear left to the rear right for example. Instead of hitting the hat switch to the right 6 times, you can hit the reset button once and then the hat switch 3 times to the right.

With some practice, the different combinations become fluent. The combo " reset + 2 hat switches up " will for example automatically have your camera viewing up and infront of the aircraft. The combo " reset + lean to gunsight " means you automatically go back to the gunsight after checking your tail. " reset + 1 hat switch down" will have you checking your instrument panel.

Overall the camera moves a bit slow but it's fluent. You can move your camera anywhere you want with minimal effort with just a little practice using this set up.