Frustrated spitfire pilot

[Avronut]

Hi everyone,

I've been flying online in spitfires for about two weeks now and have had some very helpful advice on TS. During the last week I've started to feel more comfortable with general flying although I'm still very much learning. My dogfighting skills are however completely abysmal and I've not as yet been able to shoot down a 109. Please tell me I'm not alone with this!

It basically takes me forever to identify contacts and by then I normally have a 109 on my tail. I try to look around all the time but I find it difficult because the area I want to look at is always between two points when panning with my joystick's hat switch. I can't afford Trackir and wouldn't know where to start when it comes to making one.

Once I get a 109 on my tail I can never shake them off or even get them into my sights. Most of my sorties end without me even firing my guns because I just get outmaneuvered.

If anyone can point me in the direction of helpful threads about dogfighting or can give me tips I'd appreciate it. I'm struggling to understand loadouts as well so the same goes for that.

Cheers,

Mike

PS I have shot down a two or three 110s so at least I've made a small contribution to the allied war effort! :)

[No.54 Ghost (KL-G)]

i think you just need practice.
outmaneuvering a 109 in a spit should not be a problem once you learn how to handle your aircraft. they have a tendency to attack with height and speed so a hard turn should throw most of the 109´s behind you off.
identifying targets also gets easier with time. and i can assure you we have all been there. nobody started out as an "ace" in this game.
dont give up, and try to fly with someone on TS. they might help you spotting targets.

[ATAG_Colander]

Hi Avronut,

Take a look at "freetrack". Is the cheap version (DIY) of trackir.
Basically, all you need is a used camera and some inexpensive leds.

Colander.

[ATAG_Snapper]

Hi Avronut,

As a Clod Spittie pilot myself, I feel your pain, mate! Although we have a 5 hour time difference (I'm near Toronto), if I spot you online and on Teamspeak I'd be pleased to pull you down to an empty TS channel so we can fly a sortie or two together with one-on-one discussion. Also, be sure to post in the ATAG Flight School as there are a number of your fellow Brits around who can do the same.

In the meantime, think on how the 109's got the best of you, then how to avoid a repeat situation. If they bounced you if meant they got higher than you and in position to boom and zoom you.

Avoid taking off from the coastal airfields like the plague. Instead, pick an inland airfield and climb to 20 angels as you make your way to the action area (monitor the TS conversations for this).

With practice you will be able to pick out the dots weaving around in a dogfight. You will also get a feel of which dot is being chased by flak, which one climbs highest vertically, etc.

Get very familiar with the zoom-in feature to make a positive ID before initiating your attack. Learn the dive characteristics of the Spitfire. They shed parts very quickly if you dive vertically at full throttle.

Learn to keep the sun at your back when attacking. After your attack, extend. Don't squander your energy in a turn fight -- you will get picked off by his wingmate.

Climb away and set up for your next attack.

Practice shooting to your convergence. Set your gunsight accordingly. A 109's wingspan is 32 feet. Try a convergence (for starters) of 200 yards on your gunsight (= 180 meters on the ingame GUI, both vertically and horizontally). Discipline yourself to shoot when your 109 opponent's wing tips touch the tips of the two horizontal bars as you approach from behind.

Don't "spray and pray". You only have 14.7 seconds worth of ammo. Use your zoom-in view to place your shots precisely. A one-second burst accurately placed will beat 14 seconds of not-quite-precise shooting.

Offline give yourself unlimited ammo and practise deflection shooting on friendly bombers (they don't shoot back). Same for friendly fighters, except they're constantly trying to form up on you -- good flying practice trying to get on their sixes! LOL

Hope this helps a bit. See you online! :salute:

[Doozy]

Outstanding post Snapper :thumbsup:

That will probably help a lot of folks , If I had teachers explain stuff like that when I was
in school I might not be such a baffoon today !


Doozy

[ATAG_Dave]

Hi everyone,

I've been flying online in spitfires for about two weeks now and have had some very helpful advice on TS. During the last week I've started to feel more comfortable with general flying although I'm still very much learning. My dogfighting skills are however completely abysmal and I've not as yet been able to shoot down a 109. Please tell me I'm not alone with this!

It basically takes me forever to identify contacts and by then I normally have a 109 on my tail. I try to look around all the time but I find it difficult because the area I want to look at is always between two points when panning with my joystick's hat switch. I can't afford Trackir and wouldn't know where to start when it comes to making one.

Once I get a 109 on my tail I can never shake them off or even get them into my sights. Most of my sorties end without me even firing my guns because I just get outmaneuvered.

If anyone can point me in the direction of helpful threads about dogfighting or can give me tips I'd appreciate it. I'm struggling to understand loadouts as well so the same goes for that.

Cheers,

Mike

PS I have shot down a two or three 110s so at least I've made a small contribution to the allied war effort! :)

Some excellent advice from Snapper and id second the comment above about head tracking - you can do this for just a few pounds or if you dont want to make your own hat clip seach for delan-clip on ebay they are £25 or so and work very well. You can in fact use a free programme called track NoIR which will track your face removing the need for IR lights (tho i found this worked slightly less well).

Dont give up - this is a very steep learning curve and everyone struggles when starting out. If you have some kills already you are clearly doing something right!

Im GMT based so If you see me online / on TS feel free to give me a shout ill happily wing up with you - im no ace by any means but ive recently been through what you are experiencing. Id also recommend the ATAG flight school - you will learn loads and its great fun too!

Anyway Good luck and dont give up :thumbsup:

[Avronut]

Thanks for all the advice everyone. Torian kindly spent some time with me today helping me with loadouts and convergence. I'll look out for you online Sapper and Dave, thanks for the offers.

Mike

[Avronut]

Tonight I claimed a joint kill on a Bf109 and then I managed to evade another Bf109 that got on my tail as I returned to base. Even though the 109 was an AI I still feel quite pleased. Thanks again for the advice and offers of teaming up online.

Mike

[ATAG_Dave]

Tonight I claimed a joint kill on a Bf109 and then I managed to evade another Bf109 that got on my tail as I returned to base. Even though the 109 was an AI I still feel quite pleased. Thanks again for the advice and offers of teaming up online.

Mike

Mike, there are no AI planes on the main ATAG server - it just means the player bailed out (he then gets replaced by a nominal AI pilot who goes down with the plane as it were...). The kill / part kill you got was another (human) player :thumbsup:

Dave

[Avronut]

Even better :thumbsup:

[DeXaÏ_☨]

Hey Avro,

Snapper advices are very good indeed.

Don't hesitate poking me next time you're on TS and we can fly together. It is really helping and supportive to be with someone else.

And no worries, you're not alone : When I started (~5 months ago) I was terrible :
I couldn't spot contacts,
I was mixing up my altitude reading,
Blew up the engine on a regular basis,
IDed contacts way too late,
Takeoffs were quite... original (when not deadly, and it was before the 4.312 patch)
Landings same (well, there were far less landings than takeoffs anyway)
Orientation was a disaster ("Calais angel 18, contact heading west... correction... Dunkirk angel 8, heading east... Ok, forget it, that's a boat").
Was chasing flak over France (which was directed at me...)
... and so on...

Now I laugh about it, but I felt a bit frustrated as well ;)

[Avronut]

Thanks Dex, your post made me chuckle.

I enjoyed escorting the trio of Blennies that you were in over to France last night. Although I lost you all after the first drop I shot down two 109s before getting shot down myself. :thumbsup:

Mike

[Pirabee]

Avro, Dex, Snapper, Ghost & co,

You guys are all a good howl. I thoroughly enjoyed reading up again on what rang like my very own early days. Almost like de javu. Except no one mentioned friendly kills. Ouch! Those used to hurt. Three have so far blighted my records. But no more....! Phew!

But I need to mention that the feeling of being a newb never entirely disappears. At least, not for me. Each time the spinners begin to rotate, my heart begins to tick away in subtle apprehension of what is waiting up there. I fairly suspect that's the feeling that keeps me coming back.

Pirabee.

[92 Sqn. Philstyle (QJ-P)]

Each time the spinners begin to rotate, my heart begins to tick away in subtle apprehension of what is waiting up there. I fairly suspect that's the feeling that keeps me coming back.


yes! well said.

[LuseKofte]

Well I am a lousy dogfighter myself, but I had great success flying wingman or lead with BF-110 mostly.
What you are experiencing is a no no during BOB, none fought on if they had a chance to rtb alone. There are several books about it among them alone you are nothing and two your an army.
It is highly historical not being able to survive alone. So join TS and join some fellow pilots, this way you will have help identifying and you will get a easier chance to get a shot. I am personally completely useless alone, because I am too impatient to wait for a battle, I seek it and find myself in a possession that is highly disfavor my chances for survival.
This is one of the reasons I fly mostly bombers with our fixed guns

[Bait]

Avronut, you are not alone. I have been in here about a week. No kills. Lots of bails and crashes and death. I have been in three different battles where I met enemy planes, and have only fired on an enemy once. Since you have a kill, your a step above me. I probably have about as much experience in CLoD as a real Spit pilot had when he was given a plane. About 8 hours. And chances are, I would be listed as low on the ability ladder. Actually, I have been killed far too many times to even be considered at that level. I am the equivalent of 20-30 green pilots that have been killed on Takeoffs and landings. I am sure the Server AI logic has decided to only give me really worn old planes that are on the edge of being scrapped due to my lack of ability.

I am a warm body putting a plane in the air. So until the server AI decides to replace me with a better pilot (which could be any moment from my ability) I am going to keep flying.

[AKA_Recon]

My advise:

1. always fly on comms with others
2. don't fly alone on your sortie. learn to fly wing. and be on comms with your lead. Many eyes are always better than one set eyes. If you don't know anyone, ask if anyone is spawning in, and if you can fly with them.
3. along with #1, work on mission objectives. ie. ask if any Blennies need escort. Believe me, it pays off. Often times the enemy will come to you :)
4. I recommend you join a squadron to enhance items #1 and #2 above.

Give it time. When I first joined CloD, they had AI bombers coming across the channel. My fellow AKA squad member would form up and take me bomber hunting. It was good to learn the ropes on engine management, helping me get setup with good loadouts, learning the map, and it's points of interest, and lastly, hitting bombers helped me learn more about my range.

As you see, much of my advise it to fly together with others as a team.

[Gromit]

First and only rule, get off the deck, the amount of players who waltz around at sea level is astonishing, get up, minimum of 15k before entering the hot zones, better 22-24k ft, if your getting bounced all the time, your too low!

Up there it's much easier to see someone coming, if they are higher , they contrail, if co alt they are easy to see, if they are lower they don't blend in with the ground clutter like they do at sea level, get up and stay up, if your in trouble dive away then climb back up well away, anything else and your a sitting duck!

[ATAG_Paranoid_Glitch]

Hi Avronut

I recognise you from TS

I'm in the UK- next time we are both on I will happily go down a channel and wing up.

Or even better pm me a time that is convenient for you and if I can also make it we can arrange to meet up on one of the TS flight channels and wing up.

I've only been flying for 6 months but it would be a pleasure to assist as best I can.

I'm around tomorrow - pm me if you want to fly tomorrow

cheers

Paranoid

[9./JG52 Mindle]

I will also be happy to fly with you, although you may pick up some bad habits!! :)

[Vlerkies]

First and only rule, get off the deck, the amount of players who waltz around at sea level is astonishing, get up

Its like Xmas everyday lurking off the English coast over the channel at Alt and seeing a lone Spitfire or Hurricane blasting across to France just above the waves.
It never gets old bouncing them.
Horrido!!! :)

[Avronut]

Thanks for all the advice and offers :)

Life has been pretty hectic recently so I've not been online very much. I hope to fly tonight so if I see any of you I'll see if you want to team up.

Last night was my first game for a while and just when I got to the end of the runway the phone rang. I was hoping to escort a huge squadron of Blennies but when I got off the phone I found a burst radiator instead... d'oh! Overall I do feel as though I'm improving and I shot down 2 109s last night. One of them was picking on another Spitty so that felt particularly good.

Again thanks for the help,

Mike

[Gromit]

Keep at it, your starting to get your head round it! :salute: