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View Full Version : Tracers: yes or no?



9./JG52 Mindle
May-26-2014, 09:44
After seven months chucking it about the sky, i finally tried the Spit & hurri without tracers in my guns and i must say, after the initial strangeness passed, i found i was actually hitting better. :stunned:

I was forced to fly closer and wait... and wait for a good firing solution before letting rip to ensure decent hits, as opposed to a more hopeful approach i was probably taking before. Attacking flying has definitely improved and it feels more satisfying when you get a kill, also the fact the enemy does not enjoy the warning of tracers all around him on first pass certainly helps matters.

My convergence is down to 180/180 with a healthy amount of DeWilde ammo included for the flash (2:1:1 DW:AP:VII). I still use a tracer every three rounds in the Blenny wing gun (of course) and i am yet not confident enough of my ability in the 109 to go commando in the Blue fighters, but early days.

What are the thoughts of the more experienced flyers regarding tracers? :salute:

Roblex
May-26-2014, 09:49
Personally it is because I am so very bad at hitting the target with the first burst that I don't use tracers at all :-)

I will often take a shot at a sitting target and miss but because there were no tracers he keeps flying straight and I get a chance to try again and get it right the second time :D

It is probably as good thing for a newbie to use tracers at first so he can learn how much lead he needs to use and what effect shooting while pulling Gs has but once he has learned that he should turn them off.

GunnyMac
May-26-2014, 09:54
IMO, until the I'm taking damage sound is fixed we should all use tracers.

Catseye
May-26-2014, 11:30
I use white tracers every 6th spot in guns 4 & 5. The rest DeWilde.

I find that it is just enough of an aid without warning the bandit.

Cats . . .

ATAG_EvangelusE
May-26-2014, 11:32
I use tracers in SP practice missions to aquaint myself with different horizontal/vertical setups, etc. Other than that, in MP I don't use them other than in my residual Belt to signal I have only a couple of seconds of fire power left - when I see the tracers, its time to disengage and save whats left 'just in case'.

With a bit of practice in SP I don't find the need for them and, having tried various convergence settings, I find that I get the best results with my trusty 200/200 convergence.

Hubert Bigglesworth
May-26-2014, 11:39
Hi Mindle.

No tracer is definatly the way to go, your shooting will improve and you will make the most of your ammunition, as you will no longer have the temptation to chance a shot or walk your tracer on to target.

As you say a little strange at first, but you will soon get use to it and it becomes the norm. For new pilots best to use a little tracer to start off, maybe 1 in 5 tracer in the inner or outer pair of guns just to get a feel for the shooting, to learn the gunsight and get a feel for the angles,speeds,ranges etc. Then when comfortable drop the tracer and practice a lot in quick mission, different attacks, angles etc. It can be flustrating at first as you miss with no indication why, but it will force you to use the gunsight correctly for range estimation, it will force you to estimate the target speed and angle off quickly and accurately enough to obtain the correct sight picture for the situation and open fire at the correct time. It will also force you into thinking about your own planes movements and how steady your flying, is the plane well trimmed? are you ruddering or slipping? are you hauling back on the stick? These factors will all effect your calculated aim point to hit the target.
The above may seem like a lot to think about while pressing for a gun shot but with practice your brain will do it quite automatically and you will just fly to the range and sight picture required and pull the trigger. Should you miss, the target gets no warning.

I find shooting with no tracer in Spits, Hurris or even the Blenheim IVF your aim doesnt have to be pin point perfect as the large number of guns + high firing rates + dispersion + convergence/divergence allows you to sprinkle alot of shots on to target (fighters) in a very short time and this is very effective, like a big shotgun.

In the German machines, with MG's its almost as easy to get hits but you need to be a little more precise with your aim and hold it for longer to get the same amount of shots/damage on target due to less guns, With cannon i only fire at close ish range with low angles and aim well to be sure of hits. But again if you miss and your targets half asleep you may get a second chance.

The above is only my way of shooting, there are plenty of excellent shooters (Blue and Red) on the forum who will chip in with good advice on this subject.

Keep practicing and good luck. S! Hub.

9./JG52 Mindle
May-27-2014, 06:48
cheers chaps! :thumbsup:

Gromit
May-27-2014, 15:15
I have two guns loaded with tracer only, I prefer this as I do a lot of deflection shooting rather than dead six!

RAF74_Buzzsaw
May-27-2014, 15:24
Never use tracers with British aircraft, and yes, I get extremely close and make sure I will definitely hit before shooting... usually a 1 second burst does the trick.

With German aircraft have to use tracers to get the ammo I want... but still wait till I am really close before firing, especially with 20mm.

Usually kill the pilot with my first 1 second burst with 20mm.

ATAG_Headshot
May-28-2014, 01:06
I have actually decided to put tracers back into my two outboard guns in the spits for a few reasons that are seldom mentioned. First off I am confident enough in my shooting that weather I have tracers or not, they will most likely be hurting after the first burst and not get a free warning anyways, so I am not as concerned with that. I like tracers because if I have a friendly plane with a bandit on his six a bit out of my range I can use tracers to scare him off. I know I most likely won't hit the bandit, but if I put a few tracers past his cockpit many pilots will break off their attack. This gives my friend a chance to get away, and most of the time the bandit pulls a maneuver that costs him speed and possibly pull him into my gun sight. The other good use for them that I've found is if you have a bandit out of your range flying away at speed you can sometimes do the same thing to trick him into turning/evading and losing speed so that you catch him. Fire a short burst past his canopy and watch him freak out and maneuver before checking to see where you are, then have him line himself up in your guns and slow down. The one other reason that I keep tracers is that it simply looks better for making movies IMO.

Foul Ole Ron
May-28-2014, 07:31
I gave up on using tracers recently and haven't had any issues - even with them I tended to only fire when I was pretty sure of the shot and no tracer is a definite advantage in case your first burst goes a little wild on an unsuspecting enemy. Now just have 4 guns loaded with AP and 4 with incendiary all set for 200/200 convergence.

No tracer should be the standard loadout for any shoulder shooter as well. The perfect crime...

DeXaÏ_☨
May-28-2014, 09:40
For the spitfire, I use them in G1/8 (White) and G4/5 (red) as those uses the most "extreme" convergence (H&V), thus, they delimit the lethality envelope for my setup.
I considered using some only for G2/7 or G3/6 to have the "average" trajectory but didn't like it (there is lot of personal choice here ;) )

I use those convergences (H top, V Bottom), which gives a reasonably spread pattern, efficient in the 60-300yd range (0.06-0.4s bullet time of flight).
G1 G2 G3 G4 G5 G6 G7 G8
218 189 166 150 150 166 189 218
565 525 470 350 430 500 545 590

You can check/modify/improve those with the F2.3 LOS calculator located in the "RAF Fighter Horizontal convergence" thread.

My loadout is the following:
B/DW/(tracG1/8)/AP/B/DW/(tracG4/5)

And I set the gunsight not to my average, but to my maximum distance of engagement (350yd).

After I set all that, I had noticed an continuous improvement in my efficiency, for a month (I'm now flying Blennies mostly). I rarely set blue player ablaze or pk, but rads get it almost all the time (+drag penalty). I don't finish them off, except if they remain belligerent toward reds or myself, are heading toward a red active airfield (risk of strafing friendlies + RR available) or close to their base (escape).

I use tracers because, IMO, the only advantage for not having them is to surprise an enemy, which very rarely occurs to me (<2% ?) as they tend to hear my engine or check their six.
Moreover, if he's asleep (or preparing a coffee) you should be able to trim and get a clear shot, so tracers would/might only wake him up for a very short time until you put him asleep, for good ;)
All the other reasons I can think off, are, to me, in favor of the use of tracers.

Good Hunting !