ILYA MUROMETS - New sim in the works?

[Chuck_Owl]

http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/7196-1cgs-announces-ilya-muromets-flight-sim-development/


1С Game Studios and the Russian Military Historical Society are excited to announce the development of ILYA MUROMETS, a new flight sim dedicated to
World War I.

ILYA MUROMETS covers the events of the air war on the Eastern Front during WWI and features the gigantic and legendary four-engine bomber of the Imperial Russian Air Force. This plane became the first large bomber in the history of aerial warfare and is the forefather of the multi-engine long-range strategic aviation of later conflicts.

ILYA MUROMETS will feature several additional fighter planes and attack planes from Russia, Germany and Austro-Hungary. A map covering a portion of the Eastern Front (territory of modern Ukraine) will be included in the game. This was an active theatre for the Ilya Muromets during the war where several famous missions took place. The game will include a set of challenging single-player mission scenarios along with a quick mission builder and multiplayer capability.

“We’re happy to work together with the Russian Military Historical Society on this project. This is a unique opportunity for us to put our knowledge about air battles of that period into practice,” comments Albert Zhiltsov ala LOFT, producer at 1C Game Studios. “World War I, especially the Eastern Front, is a topic that is not widely covered in video games. Our team has vast experience in creating flight simulations and we have a chance to use all of our technology including an advanced physics system, complex flight models and accurate ballistics to bring this legendary plane to life. This project is more than a game to us - it’s a great opportunity to introduce players to the history of Russian aviation and to further build interest in the flight-sim genre. To make it more accessible to newcomers we also plan to introduce a new control system in the upcoming game.”

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ILYA MUROMETS is scheduled to be released in Q4 2014 with the Early Access program starting August 1st.
Additional information about the game is available at www.ilyamuromets.net
More screenshots from ILYA MUROMETS are available at http://ilyamuromets.net/forum/topic/9-gallery/

[MoNtEzUmA]

Just saw the news on Historiagames.com
I'm not really excited by this project, I know nothing of Russian planes in WW1, plus RoF is aready a really fun and nice game. With a lot of planes, and a decent FM.
Don't get me wrong, it is always nice to see we are getting another Flight Sim. But I think there would be cooler stuff to do with korean combat jet era. Or theaters that haven't been explored yet in WW2 combat sim.
But then again, this game might be really good. I'll keep an eye on it.

[II/JG77_Con]

We need a combat sim like Vietnam era...props and jets , carrier Ops ,

[Kling]

By the looks of it is not a new game but more an addon to ROF. The pictures look like they are taken straight from ROF. ;)

[Continu0]

By the looks of it is not a new game but more an addon to ROF. The pictures look like they are taken straight from ROF. ;)

As they are implementing the mouse-control-option to this one, it will be a standalone and RoF-content will not be available in it.

[Mysticpuma]

Ironic it is called "Ilya"...I wonder if it will have as much luck as he did :(

I have no interest in this project at-all and I don't see why 777 are stretching themselves so thinly by continuing with new projects while still working on BoS. I can onyl see this meaning less resources spent on BoS and therefore more money will be needed to make sure it's development continues. Guess the price of add-ons just went up :recon:

[Chuck_Owl]

The setting and aircraft in this future title generate zero interest for me. I guess I'll just grab some popcorn and see how it goes.

[hnbdgr]

I can't name a single game that focuses on the eastern front in WW1, I would love to see a strategy game or similar from that period, but a flight sim might be a bit of a stretch. I'd be lying if i said I wasn't a tiny bit interested though. Who knows what they come up with, the only potential worry is delays for BOS buyers.

[SoW Reddog]

Guess they've burned through the cash raised for BoS now then...

[RAF74_Raptor]

Its 1C

Prehaps you are right about an Addon to ROF. Still though I too am hankering for a properly done Carrier Ops Pacific War Campaign.

[ChiefRedCloud]

Ironic it is called "Ilya"...I wonder if it will have as much luck as he did :(

I have no interest in this project at-all and I don't see why 777 are stretching themselves so thinly by continuing with new projects while still working on BoS. I can onyl see this meaning less resources spent on BoS and therefore more money will be needed to make sure it's development continues. Guess the price of add-ons just went up :recon:

MP in reading the article I saw no association with 777 only 1C. But I'm like you in wondering about this also.

Chief

Then again straight from the 777 forums and Jason Williams ....


Guys,

I will try to answer some of the basic questions you will have.

1.) Q: Why is this separate product and not part of ROF proper? Many users have expressed interest having an Eastern Front add-on for ROF. Why do they need to purchase something separate which can easily be added to ROF’s existing store and architecture?

A: This product is funded by the Russian WWI Historical Society and it makes sense to market such a product independently without requiring users to download and install a separate product not necessarily focusing on the Ilya Muromets which is the star of this product. Additionally, this product will include a new control scheme that would require a huge re-write of existing code for all planes in ROF since special work is needed to allow our planes to fly with a mouse, but still adhere to our engine’s realistic attributes. Adding that functionality to all ROF planes is expensive and time consuming. It would also no doubt be controversial for existing users who fly with traditional flight-controls. Ilya Morumets allows us to create this new control option without upsetting current ROF gameplay norms. It also allows us to utilize our experience gained making and selling BOS to better attract interested retailers and new customers.

2: Q: So is the team working simultaniously on BoS and this sim or are there different teams working on each?

A: No same team does both.

3: Can you for instance take a plane which you bought in RoF and fly it in this sim?

A: No they are separate products and cannot be mixed and matched.

[startrekmike]

The impression I am getting from reading the dev posts about the product indicate that this is very much a side project and not a lot of development resources are being used up in the making of it, in fact, it is being funded externally by a historical society which means that one of the conditions was probably ease of use and accessbility for users of all ages and backgrounds, this makes a lot of sense actually.

On top of that, I get the impression that a lot of already existing ROF assets are being used (with tweaking for optional mouse control), this means that development cost (in time) will be a lot lower.

They are not making this out to be ROF 2 at all, it is a side project that will help them raise awareness about WWI flight simming and hopefully that will lead to a much more fully featured project in the future.

[ATAG_Snapper]

I see this new sim in a very positive light. It's reaching out to a group of people who obviously have a strong interest in aviation, particularly WW1 air combat. This same group may not necessarily be into flight sims and have not invested in even a basic joystick.........but everyone who has a PC has a mouse. This new sim will almost certainly encourage trial by those otherwise not willing to invest beyond the retail sim price itself. And they will be hooked.

:devilish:

[Arthursmedley]

I don't see why 777 are stretching themselves so thinly by continuing with new projects while still working on BoS. I can onyl see this meaning less resources spent on BoS and therefore more money will be needed to make sure it's development continues. Guess the price of add-ons just went up :recon:





Guess they've burned through the cash raised for BoS now then...



You are both wrong. This will not eat into BoS development in any way. Why not have a quick google of "Russian Military Historical Society"? The chairman of the Russian Military Historical Society is also the Russian Minister of Culture!

Jason and Loft with the help of their well connected friends at 1C are cutting themselves a slice of the new funds Putin is making available to help rewrite Russian history. I wonder what else this "historical society" has backed with the Kremlin's money?

[RAF74_Buzzsaw]

If this Sim is designed to allow flying with a mouse, it is obviously aimed at the WAR THUNDER, arcade market.

FM's will by necessity, be dumbed down.

Still, I think any new Sim is good for the hobby, a percentage of the people who play arcade Flight Sims always graduate to the more hardcore sims like CoD. :thumbsup:

[Arthursmedley]

[QUOTE=RAF74_Buzzsaw;125265]

If this Sim is designed to allow flying with a mouse, it is obviously aimed at the WAR THUNDER, arcade market.

[QUOTE]

Actually it's aimed at all markets and no markets as this is a sim with a difference. This sim is being released not to make a monetary return for it's producers but to promote a message. You really want to have a look at the pronouncements of the Russian Military Historical Society. It's an instrument to promote Putin's revisionist history of modern Russia and in turn to help promote his new 'patriotic' agenda.

This agenda is currently to be seen at work in the Ukraine. I really wonder if Jason Williams over in So. Cal. really understands what he's taking 777 into here.

Or perhaps it's just a case of "bend over and think of the money"?

[startrekmike]

If this Sim is designed to allow flying with a mouse, it is obviously aimed at the WAR THUNDER, arcade market.

FM's will by necessity, be dumbed down.

Still, I think any new Sim is good for the hobby, a percentage of the people who play arcade Flight Sims always graduate to the more hardcore sims like CoD. :thumbsup:


Details have been hazy on the controls but it is my impression that the bulk of the project is really about adding mouse controls on top of what is already in ROF, the flight models, the physics and all that are staying the same, they are just adding the means to control it with a mouse for those without the hardware.

For those that do have the hardware, I have a hard time believing that they will actually remove functionality considering that this is essentially a repackaged Rise of flight with a different map, a new plane and mouse control as a option.

[SoW Reddog]

You are both wrong. This will not eat into BoS development in any way. Why not have a quick google of "Russian Military Historical Society"? The chairman of the Russian Military Historical Society is also the Russian Minister of Culture!

Jason and Loft with the help of their well connected friends at 1C are cutting themselves a slice of the new funds Putin is making available to help rewrite Russian history. I wonder what else this "historical society" has backed with the Kremlin's money?

And what do they need those funds for??? Political agenda aside, they wouldn't be getting into another concurrent side project which adds nothing to their existing one if it weren't necessary for one reason or another. Now it might be to gain some credit politically for BoS, or it might be purely monetary.

[Busso]

Well seeing as BoS is looking like it will be more sim-lite than even War Thunder, I'm not surprised with this latest development. Have to feel sorry for the Rise of Flight community who will no doubt see their sim even more neglected.

[startrekmike]

Well seeing as BoS is looking like it will be more sim-lite than even War Thunder, I'm not surprised with this latest development. Have to feel sorry for the Rise of Flight community who will no doubt see their sim even more neglected.

I won't get into the BoS/War thunder thing as I don't really think that is accurate (that is a debate for another time I suppose) but I will say that as someone who has put some hours into the early access and some hours in War thunder, I can't agree, War thunder is built for a casual audience, even the sim mode is pretty light on realism, BoS is a proper sim, it may not be as detailed as CloD in some ways but it is still a proper sim in a lot of key ways.

As a long-time Rise of flight player, I do feel that ROF has been somewhat neglected but at the same time, it has been pretty clear for a while that the market for WWI flight sims is pretty much already playing it, I don't often see new blood on the forums and the servers are pretty light on players, I think it is safe to say that Rise of flight has grown as much as it can and it probably is time for them to cease putting a lot of money into it.

Don't get me wrong, it breaks my heart to see that it never really got the fanbase it probably deserved but perhaps we might see another WWI sim from them in the future with a business model that is not so upsetting to some people (though I thought it made sense).

Even if this project never happened, I don't think Rise of flight has much longer to go, Jason even said on the forums that after the release of the Hanriot aircraft, they were going to evaluate the future of ROF and see if it really can go on any longer.

[Busso]

I won't get into the BoS/War thunder thing as I don't really think that is accurate (that is a debate for another time I suppose) but I will say that as someone who has put some hours into the early access and some hours in War thunder, I can't agree, War thunder is built for a casual audience, even the sim mode is pretty light on realism, BoS is a proper sim, it may not be as detailed as CloD in some ways but it is still a proper sim in a lot of key ways.

As a long-time Rise of flight player, I do feel that ROF has been somewhat neglected but at the same time, it has been pretty clear for a while that the market for WWI flight sims is pretty much already playing it, I don't often see new blood on the forums and the servers are pretty light on players, I think it is safe to say that Rise of flight has grown as much as it can and it probably is time for them to cease putting a lot of money into it.

Don't get me wrong, it breaks my heart to see that it never really got the fanbase it probably deserved but perhaps we might see another WWI sim from them in the future with a business model that is not so upsetting to some people (though I thought it made sense).

Even if this project never happened, I don't think Rise of flight has much longer to go, Jason even said on the forums that after the release of the Hanriot aircraft, they were going to evaluate the future of ROF and see if it really can go on any longer.

You have a point and perhaps I took it a little too far with the War Thunder comparison. But I do believe that Jason is underestimating his customers and that BoS will die an early death once all the major plane types have been released. RoF had great potential but ultimately it was disappointing once it became apparent that the issues it had would never be addressed. I wonder if people would have been so keen to buy the all the aircraft if they knew development was going to all but stop so soon and the end result is a sim that looks nice but feels, well... empty. Now there is talk of RoF2 which is crazy, I know I won't be buying all the aircraft a second time round. I understand it costs a lot of money to develop flightsims but they need to show that there is a proper long term vision for BoS and that it will offer more than just catering for multi-player furballs (which is really what War Thunder does).

So I have to disagree about RoF simply growing as far as it can. Look at Wings Over Flanders Fields, RoF could have been so much more than it is. I fear it's going to be much the same way for BoS.

[ATAG_Colander]

WWI planes in Clod engine? :devilish:


JK. I doubt that will happen :)

[startrekmike]

You have a point and perhaps I took it a little too far with the War Thunder comparison. But I do believe that Jason is underestimating his customers and that BoS will die an early death once all the major plane types have been released. RoF had great potential but ultimately it was disappointing once it became apparent that the issues it had would never be addressed. I wonder if people would have been so keen to buy the all the aircraft if they knew development was going to all but stop so soon and the end result is a sim that looks nice but feels, well... empty. Now there is talk of RoF2 which is crazy, I know I won't be buying all the aircraft a second time round. I understand it costs a lot of money to develop flightsims but they need to show that there is a proper long term vision for BoS and that it will offer more than just catering for multi-player furballs (which is really what War Thunder does).

So I have to disagree about RoF simply growing as far as it can. Look at Wings Over Flanders Fields, RoF could have been so much more than it is. I fear it's going to be much the same way for BoS.

I don't know, I mean, ROF never was a huge hit, it never got the following it really needed to support itself and the fact that it lasted as long as it did was a testament to the dedication of 777 serve the WWI flight sim market, it sucks that it did not have the legs that some other flight sims did but it had a hard time from the beginning in terms of profit.

If I had to do it all again, I would still buy all the content for ROF that I did, I still play it, I still enjoy it a great deal and it is still the best WWI flight simulation around (even with it's lack of a good campaign), as such, it pains me to see development potentially end very soon but I also have to keep in mind that it had it's time and while there are still some issues that I think should have been fixed long ago, it still had a decent run considering that it never had the playerbase that it needed to be profitable.

Also, there is no official talk of ROF2, it is just a thing that they hope can happen someday but no official word is out on it, more of a passing forum post than anything else at this stage.

As far as ROF being empty, I suppose that if you look at it through the lens of the ATAG server, yeah, it can't really compete on that level because it does have it's strict object limits but with those limits in mind, you can still have some pretty lively missions if you scale it all appropriately, the ROF engine's strengths come into play when you focus on smaller missions with more defined goals for a smaller group of players, it can't do a sandbox like you get with ATAG's server but it can give you very good co-op missions that are very realistic.

You are right however that like ROF before it, BoS's public servers will probably focus on low altitude furballs, it sucks but it is also not so much the fault of the sim itself, it is the fault of the mission makers and players, there are never really any missions on the ROF public server list that really play to ROF's strengths (the tight, smaller scale co-op missions I was talking about earlier) and because of that, it has a reputation for being air quake.

Sadly, since BoS will use the same editor that not enough people really explored, we will see yet more air-quake servers, it does not mean that one could not make a really good and very realistic mission if they really wanted to, it is just that I think the whole mindset of most multiplayer mission builders is more focused on a mission that you can hop in and out of easily as well as allowing as many players to play as possible, this works in ATAG but since ROF/BoS's engine favors smaller, more focused missions, we tend not to see the missions that really highlight what it does well.

[RAF74_Buzzsaw]

Overall I enjoyed RoF, it was a good try at a WWI Flight Sim. :thumbsup:

It was limited by the mission builder and the small potential for numbers of ground units or aircraft in online campaigns or SP.

The other issue was the flight models... they never did fix the Albatros's as well as quite a number of other aircraft such as the DH2. For a while I really thought they would address the problems... they did fix the Nieuport 17, its revised FM was actually very well done. But the other aircraft were left with their issues.

In my opinion they could have continued to develop the game further, filling out the early war planeset, and I think this would have improved its popularity.

The final negative issue in my opinion was the emphasis on silly things like pilot revolvers, scarfs, etc.... all requiring pay to get 'unlockable' content... this led to ahistorical armament options becoming standard on the servers... as for example twin guns on the Sopwith Triplane or a 20mm rear gun on the DFW. If you had the money you got a better aircraft. I don't like that kind of structure.

Still I bought almost all the aircraft, and did have many fun hours although as mentioned, felt like I was getting taken a lot of the time.

[startrekmike]

Overall I enjoyed RoF, it was a good try at a WWI Flight Sim. :thumbsup:

It was limited by the mission builder and the small potential for numbers of ground units or aircraft in online campaigns or SP.

The other issue was the flight models... they never did fix the Albatros's as well as quite a number of other aircraft such as the DH2. For a while I really thought they would address the problems... they did fix the Nieuport 17, its revised FM was actually very well done. But the other aircraft were left with their issues.

In my opinion they could have continued to develop the game further, filling out the early war planeset, and I think this would have improved its popularity.

The final negative issue in my opinion was the emphasis on silly things like pilot revolvers, scarfs, etc.... all requiring pay to get 'unlockable' content... this led to ahistorical armament options becoming standard on the servers... as for example twin guns on the Sopwith Triplane or a 20mm rear gun on the DFW. If you had the money you got a better aircraft. I don't like that kind of structure.

Still I bought almost all the aircraft, and did have many fun hours although as mentioned, felt like I was getting taken a lot of the time.

At the risk of sounding like I am obnoxiously trying to defend 777 here (I am not, it is just that I enjoy this discussion I suppose), I do think that after years of debate on the ROF forums (and others I am sure), it is easy get focused a bit on the negatives when it comes to the flight model, I mean, by and large, Rise of flight has a fantastic flight model and even more, it has a really good atmospheric modeling system that produces a pretty impressive "feeling" of flight.

Still, you are indeed correct that Rise of flight had a few glaring issues when it came to aircraft performance, mostly tied to aircraft having the wrong engine power or the wrong engines entirely, the only flight model that I can really say that feels very wrong to me is the Nieuport 28, it is the only case I can personally perceive where the aircraft engine is not the issue and instead it is the overall feel of it that is wrong (or seems wrong based on what I have read).

It is sad that 777 did not listen to us on the forums when we said that instead of selling us scarves, they could have sold engine upgrade packs, some of us were more than willing to pay and that probably would have solved a lot of the complaints or at least made a meaningful dent in them.

As far as the scarves and other stuff, I think it was sadly unavoidable, as I have said before, it was never a sim that made a ton of money and those packages seemed like ways to try and find ways to finance work in order to keep the content coming, at this stage however, there is so much extra content that it is probably time for them to simply start packaging it all up as one title, it would probably look more lucrative in the steam store instead of scaring customers away with a list of planes. (to be very fair, DCS World has this problem as well, mostly because potential customers don't know that each "DLC" is actually it's own product so they whine and moan about how "overpriced" the DLC is).

As far as the weapon mods, this was something that got debated in circles on the ROF forums and I will say here what I said there, if there is even ONE photo of a plane with a particular weapon modification on it, it is valid, you don't have to use it, the server can restrict the use of weapon mods or one could even try to start making missions where the use of such weapon mods is impractical (in other words, there needs to be more co-op missions in ROF with actual mission structure so that people who load two Vickers on a Triplane will quickly learn not to do that when they can't climb as fast or keep up with the rest of the flight).

In any case, I have always felt that the weapon mods reflected the very nature of Rise of flight, it is a WWI air combat simulator that does not cast you in any particular role, you are not playing as a specific pilot that is flying a specific plane in a specific squadron on a specific year, the star of the sim is the planes themselves, even the theater of war is somewhat secondary, it is all about WWI air combat in all it's forms and variations.

Think of it like this, you are reading 'The great war in the air' (a fantastic book BTW) and you read about a specific pilot using a specific modification. You think to yourself "I would love to try that actually, it sounds interesting!" and in some cases, ROF actually lets you do that, it is a means to explore and experiment, to try out "what if?" scenarios where things do not go exactly as they did in the real air war.

This is why I just did not get bent out of shape like others did on the ROF forums about the weapon mods, 777 was (to my knowledge) able to provide photographic proof of each mod's existence (though I imagine there might have been exceptions) and since I am not playing as a specific pilot who had a specific story, specific aircraft used with specific loadouts, I feel free to experiment, to try out things when I deem it appropriate, not always but enough to justify buying all the weapon and field mods.


The object limit thing is harder to discuss because I personally feel that Rise of flight did not suffer as much from those limitations, at least not as much as BoS will.

See, my personal feelings about the ROF object limit are based on two major factors.

1.) The air to ground combat component of the WWI air war was pretty sparse, there was plenty of bombing but it was not Kursk or anything like that, as such, while it does make large ATAG style sandbox like missions difficult, it does make more focused, smaller and still extremely realistic missions entirely possible.

2.) While this is based more on my personal taste, I find that larger sandbox style missions have a lot to offer someone looking for a "jump in and play" online experience (where you just join a server, pick a plane and there is always something to do) but for me, I am looking for smaller, more intimate mission structure where you get less players but more detailed mission structure, to put it simply, I prefer straight up co-op missions or even team based missions that are only centered around one specific engagement and for that kind of thing, ROF works perfectly.

I mean, I won't deny the appeal of the ATAG mission structure, it works really well and satisfies a lot of players but it is the same reason I don't really spend a lot of time on public servers for DCS, they use big missions that might have something like 10 or so A-10's doing one mission where you would really only see a couple of groups of two over a battlefield, as such, I make my own missions in DCS that are much smaler, much more dense and focused because I only build it around a single mission with a single flight (or more if other types of aircraft are also doing supporting missions).

I suppose what I am saying (very, very badly I might add) is that the object limit in ROF becomes a problem when you want to make big missions, I have come to kinda accept that and build missions that play on ROF's strengths and while they may be smaller in scale and player number, they are very fun and very historical.