PDA

View Full Version : Discussion: What makes stats interesting - how to structure stats



JG51_Szyporyn
Jun-18-2014, 08:07
S!

EDIT: Since people are very interested in running down what kind of stats also, I thought I would create this fully open google spreadsheet for us to have a brainstorm in - I kicked it off just to show what I mean (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1f1_idhiRaSMkXOzv27l32_9Hd7uGpO-q00qCPQi_kE4/edit?usp=sharing)


Thought a discussion about the data foundation for stats would be a good thing to kick off.

What is the structure of stats, and to a lesser degree (and later on) what is interesting to have of stats.

In my opinion the following would be a good structure to start from.

Table: player
Fields:
token (I do not use ID, I use "token" when describing)
name
squad (token for squad table if we go that way)
etc...

Table: sortie
Fields:
token,
player (token),
start AF (just a filler, have no bias on what stats we want in here - data for now is irrelevant, structure is not)
end AF (same)
etc....

Table: encounter (all damage done and recieved between you and a foe, really cool option here is a composite key made of foe and player tokens, as in "give me all encounters between player A and player B", and player/squad rivalry is a good thing)
Fields:
token
sortie (token)
player (token)
foe (token),
"stats"...

If we are really sneaky we will have yet another table for actual damage output/input (in lack of better words) with timestamps, that would open up for some real nifty features such as maybe a player with yours and your foes rides side by side, and then the damages done would paint over time on the planes.

So as you can see there are LOADS to discuss before even programming as much as a single line of code - or even before thinking about stuff like "ohh ohh ohh and I want stats about how much time I have flying with gear down" - thats just filler.

Mysticpuma
Jun-18-2014, 09:11
Everything T.A.R.G.E.T stats used to have as mentioned here:

http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8548&highlight=warclouds

Cheers, MP

JG51_Szyporyn
Jun-18-2014, 09:54
Have to say I love the purple color you guys picked for MODs, is it a coincidence that it is the color of "epic"? :)

JG4_sKylon
Jun-18-2014, 11:49
It´s the color of TF members, not forum moderators.:salute:

ATAG_Snapper
Jun-18-2014, 12:29
it´s the color of tf members, not forum moderators.:salute:


huh? :-)

:)

JG51_Szyporyn
Jun-18-2014, 13:13
It´s the color of TF members, not forum moderators.:salute:

Actually meant game MODs :)

JG51_Szyporyn
Jun-18-2014, 13:15
huh? :-)

:)

10230

JG51_Szyporyn
Jun-18-2014, 13:17
Everything T.A.R.G.E.T stats used to have as mentioned here:

http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8548&highlight=warclouds

Cheers, MP

Noted, and bookmarked.

However I am not as much talking about what types of stats (for now) - but more the data structure.

For instance that (IMO) it would be nice to have a table for sorties as well as encounters - and not just one table with your combined flat stats (as in you killed this amount of planes since day 1), because then you would also be able to check sortie for sortie and each encounter you have had during those sorties as well as you would be able to get the flat combined stats

Also we would have to talk about how to store those data, and what data could be stored locally (well there seems to be a recorder in the game already now, otherwise that would be my example for locally stored stats data).
As well as how/when/how often to synch off those data against the database, and when to do it (to not stress the server whilst others wants its full attention as an example) - but thats another thread I guess.

AKA_Recon
Jun-18-2014, 15:45
I don't think stats need to be real time.

Personally I'd write the events to a queue then have the queue reader pick them up and make writes to the database.

Or I'd write to my own log in a format I want then after the mission ends parse the log, collect the results and write them to the database.

ATAG_Colander
Jun-18-2014, 15:58
I don't think stats need to be real time.

Personally I'd write the events to a queue then have the queue reader pick them up and make writes to the database.

Or I'd write to my own log in a format I want then after the mission ends parse the log, collect the results and write them to the database.

That's basically why I made the ATAG stats write to an MDB per mission.
Initially I thought I didn't want to strain the game by writing stats (although you have to be very careful not to hang the server) but now that we have more experience with it I would say there's no much need to save CPU or disk access unless the box where is running is a slow one or is already stressed.

Is still a good idea though to write raw data from the game and process it separately to a human readable form.

Salmo
Jun-18-2014, 18:25
Zyphon,
You may want to look at the data structures used by FBDj for Il2-1946

ATAG_Lewis
Jun-18-2014, 18:41
As far as I can see there is no actual Kill to Death ratio...K/D ratio..

I used to follow the K/D ratio in IL2 1946....and try to beat my last months score...Really enjoyable

The other stat would be getting points for bomber objectives in the server....Its less incentive at the moment because there is no points system for the bombers ingame..

JG51_Szyporyn
Jun-19-2014, 05:42
As far as I can see there is no actual Kill to Death ratio...K/D ratio..

I used to follow the K/D ratio in IL2 1946....and try to beat my last months score...Really enjoyable

The other stat would be getting points for bomber objectives in the server....Its less incentive at the moment because there is no points system for the bombers ingame..

Nope, the game delivers only base stats from which you can create extended stats - this makes sense.

Like it would be possible with that model to get a stats on how many times you have crash landed within 2km of your AF - which would not make sense to have as an actual game stats.

Same with kill/death ratio - you have kills, you have deaths, but not the K/D ratio - which is a GOOD thing because they do not make decisions on our behalf (maybe you would like it so a downed/ruined aircraft - that did not generate a "kill" also constituted a kill.

Kling
Jun-19-2014, 05:54
Nope, the game delivers only base stats from which you can create extended stats - this makes sense.

Like it would be possible with that model to get a stats on how many times you have crash landed within 2km of your AF - which would not make sense to have as an actual game stats.

Same with kill/death ratio - you have kills, you have deaths, but not the K/D ratio - which is a GOOD thing because they do not make decisions on our behalf (maybe you would like it so a downed/ruined aircraft - that did not generate a "kill" also constituted a kill.

Well that is a good point because if I get shot down, and ditch my plane on a field even if the plane is recoverable, i am STILL shot down and the other pilot should be rewarded a victory and I should be given a "shot down" in my stats.
Now IF a system could be made where If i managed to bring my plane back to within say 2km of my base he should not be given a victory nor should I get a shot down in my status.

This would encourage people to always try to make it back to a friendly base if they want to have good stats.

I think player stats are waaaay underestimated!!
Some people say that they never look for stats, well they still dont have to only because a detailed stat system is implented.
A page where people can compare their skills vs other pilots on the server and also the squads skills vs other squads is very much needed! :)

hnbdgr
Jun-19-2014, 07:48
Oh looks like I'm late to the party... :( I've spent some time today devising a stat system (theory only) and posting a thread about it without seeing this one.....

For what it's worth, here it is: http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11479

there is a publicly editable spreadsheet and a poll about stats. If any of you want to have a quick peek it would be much appreciated...:salute:

JG51_Szyporyn
Jun-19-2014, 09:50
Oh looks like I'm late to the party... :( I've spent some time today devising a stat system (theory only) and posting a thread about it without seeing this one.....

For what it's worth, here it is: http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11479

there is a publicly editable spreadsheet and a poll about stats. If any of you want to have a quick peek it would be much appreciated...:salute:

Would not say you are late, would say you are right on time and you come prepared.

Nothing - absolutely NOTHING (at least from my part) has been decided at all - I am very much about laying the ground work first, and doing it proper.

So from my point of view you just contributed a whole lot.

Nor is there (again from my part) not one guy who can do this - then you just get a stats system that one guy will like a lot.

All the how's should be decided upon by a group, and in the end as representatives of the community (for instance squads should be allowed to be heard first as well)

The my way or the high way (not saying anyone has said that this is the case, just pointing out as example) is not a viable solution for a community

And if you are not in a squad, then you should seriously think about these guys (with your name and all I mean) http://forums.badgersquad.eu (yeah yeah - its my squad)

hnbdgr
Jun-19-2014, 12:28
Would not say you are late, would say you are right on time and you come prepared.

Nothing - absolutely NOTHING (at least from my part) has been decided at all - I am very much about laying the ground work first, and doing it proper.

So from my point of view you just contributed a whole lot.

Nor is there (again from my part) not one guy who can do this - then you just get a stats system that one guy will like a lot.

All the how's should be decided upon by a group, and in the end as representatives of the community (for instance squads should be allowed to be heard first as well)

The my way or the high way (not saying anyone has said that this is the case, just pointing out as example) is not a viable solution for a community

And if you are not in a squad, then you should seriously think about these guys (with your name and all I mean) http://forums.badgersquad.eu (yeah yeah - its my squad)

Thanks Szyporyn! I hear you code well, maybe you could do some test on a private game? I'd be happy to contribute (flying, testing etc., not coding :/)

As for the squad, never say never :D I'll have a look at your website :thumbsup:

JG51_Szyporyn
Jun-19-2014, 13:31
Thanks Szyporyn! I hear you code well, maybe you could do some test on a private game? I'd be happy to contribute (flying, testing etc., not coding :/)

As for the squad, never say never :D I'll have a look at your website :thumbsup:

Yes that is the plan - just to familiarize myself with it, and having an extra hand would be awesome indeed.

How good a coder I will be in C# is still something that needs to be proven - but I do rather well in my normal field (or so I think at least - front end development) and have (again... or so do I think at least hehe) a pretty good understanding on how data should be structured and know that good planning yields good code and vice versa - as well as some experience in UX.

You are more than welcome to join our little attempt at a social gaming group (we are not tied up on one game, and we are not tied up on our own squad identity per se - for instance to join CloD we joined JG51 and are a part of them in CloD regi - so you could easily be a part of another squad at the same time in some other game.

JG51_Szyporyn
Jun-20-2014, 14:33
BUMP - read up top for a link to a quick stats brainstorm, seeing as I get a lot of "we should have this in the stats" - which is cool enough but thought I would funnel it over a to a google spreadsheet

(link here also (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1f1_idhiRaSMkXOzv27l32_9Hd7uGpO-q00qCPQi_kE4/edit?usp=sharing))