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Silver_Dragon
Jul-07-2014, 13:15
from ED forum:
http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2110895&postcount=1

Dear all,

In this July 2014 update, the primary news is in regards to the restructured backer rewards. After a careful review of the older system under RRG, we found it financially unattainable. However, the restructured system still provides an excellent value for your backing contribution. For example: each aircraft will retail at $49.99; however, you will receive the item instead at only $20.00. This is in addition to other items such as the Normandy map ($20 contribution and above) and other perks as the backing contribution level rises.

We also feel this new system dramatically reduces the chance of reward delivery confusion and delays.

As software deliverables (aircraft and map keys) are ready for release, keys will be sent to backers based on their contribution level. Physical items like shirts, hats, etc. will be sent when the entire DCS: World War II: Europe 1944 project is complete per deliverable items stated in the rewards list at the bottom of this update.

Per the update last week, we are pushing hard to deliver the originally planned aircraft and assets as fast as we can. Because we have additional staff assigned to this effort, this will accelerate the process and dramatically lessen the impact on our other projects (insert: “where is my Hornet?!” comments).

Our ultimate goal is to create a unique battlefield environment within DCS World that is specifically tailored to Second World War air combat. This is a combination of the period aircraft, maps, navigation, communications, and objects that creates a total experience. DCS World is designed to encompass multiple time period and locations, and we see this as a keystone endeavor for just one slice of DCS World.

As each part of DCS: World War II: Europe 1944 is created (aircraft and map), we will release it as a unique DCS World module (like we are currently preparing DCS: Fw 190 D-9 Dora for). Backers will get each part based on their contribution level. When all the pieces are done, we will create a bundle package that puts them all together in a single download / boxed purchase. In other words, there will be no separate installation that runs outside of DCS World. That would defeat the primary goal of DCS World.

As we get closer to the launch of DCS: Fw 190 D-9 Dora in August 2014, we are working on a mechanism to provide an Alpha copy to $40 and up contributors.

DCS World War II: Europe 1944 Backer Rewards:

$1-19
Bronze Backer credit in manuals

$20
Bronze Backer credit in manuals
DCS: P-51D Mustang and print-ready PDF manual
Normandy Map

$40
Bronze Backer credit in manuals
DCS: P-51D Mustang and print-ready PDF manual
Normandy Map
DCS: Fw 190 D-9 Dora, Alpha access, and print-ready PDF manual

$60
Silver Backer credit in manuals
DCS: P-51D Mustang and print-ready PDF manual
Normandy Map
DCS: Fw 190 D-9 Dora, Alpha access, and print-ready PDF manual
DCS: Bf-109K, Alpha access, and print-ready PDF manual

$80
Silver Backer credit in manuals
DCS: P-51D Mustang and print-ready PDF manual
Normandy Map
DCS: Fw 190 D-9 Dora, Alpha access, and print-ready PDF manual
DCS: Bf-109K, Alpha access, and print-ready PDF manual
DCS: Spitfire, Alpha access, and print-ready PDF manual

$100
Silver Backer credit in manuals
DCS: P-51D Mustang and print-ready PDF manual
Normandy Map
DCS: Fw 190 D-9 Dora, Alpha access, and print-ready PDF manual
DCS: Bf-109K, Alpha access, and print-ready PDF manual
DCS: Spitfire, Alpha access, and print-ready PDF manual
DCS: P-47D Thunderbolt, Alpha access, and print-ready PDF manual

$120
Gold Backer credit in manuals
DCS: P-51D Mustang and print-ready PDF manual
Normandy Map
DCS: Fw 190 D-9 Dora, Alpha access, and print-ready PDF manual
DCS: Bf-109K, Alpha access, and print-ready PDF manual
DCS: Spitfire, Alpha access, and print-ready PDF manual
DCS: P-47D Thunderbolt, Alpha access, and print-ready PDF manual
DCS: Me.262, Alpha access, and print-ready PDF manual

$140
Gold Backer credit in manuals
DCS: P-51D Mustang and print-ready PDF manual
Normandy Map
DCS: Fw 190 D-9 Dora, Alpha access, and print-ready PDF manual
DCS: Bf-109K, Alpha access, and print-ready PDF manual
DCS: Spitfire, Alpha access, and print-ready PDF manual
DCS: P-47D Thunderbolt, Alpha access, and print-ready PDF manual
DCS: Me.262, Alpha access, and print-ready PDF manual
Normandy Map Alpha access

$160
Gold Backer credit in manuals
DCS: P-51D Mustang and print-ready PDF manual
Normandy Map
DCS: Fw 190 D-9 Dora, Alpha access, and print-ready PDF manual
DCS: Bf-109K, Alpha access, and print-ready PDF manual
DCS: Spitfire, Alpha access, and print-ready PDF manual
DCS: P-47D Thunderbolt, Alpha access, and print-ready PDF manual
DCS: Me.262, Alpha access, and print-ready PDF manual
Normandy Map Alpha access
Copy of any DCS product

$180
Platinum Backer credit in manuals
DCS: P-51D Mustang and print-ready PDF manual
Normandy Map
DCS: Fw 190 D-9 Dora, Alpha access, and print-ready PDF manual
DCS: Bf-109K, Alpha access, and print-ready PDF manual
DCS: Spitfire, Alpha access, and print-ready PDF manual
DCS: P-47D Thunderbolt, Alpha access, and print-ready PDF manual
DCS: Me.262, Alpha access, and print-ready PDF manual
Normandy Map Alpha access
Copy of any DCS product
TFC Polo Shirt

$200
Platinum Backer credit in manuals
DCS: P-51D Mustang and print-ready PDF manual
Normandy Map
DCS: Fw 190 D-9 Dora, Alpha access, and print-ready PDF manual
DCS: Bf-109K, Alpha access, and print-ready PDF manual
DCS: Spitfire, Alpha access, and print-ready PDF manual
DCS: P-47D Thunderbolt, Alpha access, and print-ready PDF manual
DCS: Me.262, Alpha access, and print-ready PDF manual
Normandy Map Alpha access
Copy of any DCS product
TFC Polo Shirt
TFC hat and calendar

$250
Platinum Backer credit in manuals
DCS: P-51D Mustang and print-ready PDF manual
Normandy Map
DCS: Fw 190 D-9 Dora, Alpha access, and print-ready PDF manual
DCS: Bf-109K, Alpha access, and print-ready PDF manual
DCS: Spitfire, Alpha access, and print-ready PDF manual
DCS: P-47D Thunderbolt, Alpha access, and print-ready PDF manual
DCS: Me.262, Alpha access, and print-ready PDF manual
Normandy Map Alpha access
Copy of any DCS product
TFC Polo Shirt
TFC hat and calendar
Two keys for each aircraft

$500
Diamond Backer credit in manuals
DCS: P-51D Mustang and print-ready PDF manual
Normandy Map
DCS: Fw 190 D-9 Dora, Alpha access, and print-ready PDF manual
DCS: Bf-109K, Alpha access, and print-ready PDF manual
DCS: Spitfire, Alpha access, and print-ready PDF manual
DCS: P-47D Thunderbolt, Alpha access, and print-ready PDF manual
DCS: Me.262, Alpha access, and print-ready PDF manual
Normandy Map Alpha access
Copy of any DCS product
TFC Polo Shirt
TFC hat and calendar
Two keys for each aircraft
One existing aircraft skin with your name below the canopy

$1,000
Diamond Backer credit in manuals
DCS: P-51D Mustang and print-ready PDF manual
Normandy Map
DCS: Fw 190 D-9 Dora, Alpha access, and print-ready PDF manual
DCS: Bf-109K, Alpha access, and print-ready PDF manual
DCS: Spitfire, Alpha access, and print-ready PDF manual
DCS: P-47D Thunderbolt, Alpha access, and print-ready PDF manual
DCS: Me.262, Alpha access, and print-ready PDF manual
Normandy Map Alpha access
Copy of any DCS product
TFC Polo Shirt
TFC hat and calendar
Two keys for each aircraft
One existing aircraft skin with your name below the canopy
One custom paint scheme for the aircraft of your choice

$2,000
Diamond Backer credit in manuals
DCS: P-51D Mustang and print-ready PDF manual
Normandy Map
DCS: Fw 190 D-9 Dora, Alpha access, and print-ready PDF manual
DCS: Bf-109K, Alpha access, and print-ready PDF manual
DCS: Spitfire, Alpha access, and print-ready PDF manual
DCS: P-47D Thunderbolt, Alpha access, and print-ready PDF manual
DCS: Me.262, Alpha access, and print-ready PDF manual
Normandy Map Alpha access
Copy of any DCS product
TFC Polo Shirt
TFC hat and calendar
Two keys for each aircraft
One existing aircraft skin with your name below the canopy
One custom paint scheme for the aircraft of your choice
Your face on the pilot model of your plane of choice

J-HAT
Jul-07-2014, 13:59
Thank you!

Seems fair. At least at my level ($120).

Marmus
Jul-07-2014, 14:08
I am happy. I always thought the original level of gifts was crazy unsustainable anyway.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

Mysticpuma
Jul-07-2014, 14:17
Well I backed at $110 but added $10 for posting and packaging of the manuals....does that make me a $120 backer?

AKA_Recon
Jul-07-2014, 14:22
I lost the p47 out of this new restructure and get 2 planes I might never fly...

ATAG_Headshot
Jul-07-2014, 14:28
One of the big reasons that I put in as much as I did was to get the physical manuals. Now it's down to just a PDF. Not thrilled but I am still lookin forward to the aircraft, though now it looks like I won't get the ME-262 anymore either....

ATAG_Snapper
Jul-07-2014, 14:33
I lost the p47 out of this new restructure and get 2 planes I might never fly...

I hear ya, Recon. I'm in the same boat since I already own the P51D (paid full retail) and was looking forward to the Spit IX and the Jug. That said, I'm just glad the project is still going ahead and not abandoned altogether. We'll see what the future holds, I'm sure ED is not happy at having to do this restructuring.

TWC_SLAG
Jul-07-2014, 14:35
Since we will not be getting as many planes as before, we should have a choice of which ones we do get. I already have the P-51, so I left it off my choices. Now, I get a second copy of it I don't need/want, without getting what I do want.

If I qualify for two, I want to choose them, not get the ones they are willing to give me.

badfinger

AKA_Recon
Jul-07-2014, 14:42
A 'pick 3 of 5' at 'level x' would have been a better solution.

ATAG_Snapper
Jul-07-2014, 14:55
I'm hoping they may sell us the previously-promised planes at a discount from the full retail price. Who knows?

:-)

Catseye
Jul-07-2014, 14:58
I'm hoping they may sell us the previously-promised planes at a discount from the full retail price. Who knows?

:-)

Hi Snapper,
Is this what you mean?

"In this July 2014 update, the primary news is in regards to the restructured backer rewards. After a careful review of the older system under RRG, we found it financially unattainable. However, the restructured system still provides an excellent value for your backing contribution. For example: each aircraft will retail at $49.99; however, you will receive the item instead at only $20.00. This is in addition to other items such as the Normandy map ($20 contribution and above) and other perks as the backing contribution level rises."

Cats . . .

RAF74_Buzzsaw
Jul-07-2014, 14:59
While I understand the original offer to supporters with lower contributions to give them all the aircraft is likely unsustainable, I don't like the way the aircraft choices are awarded.

I am fortunate in having made a larger contribution and receive all the choices, but what if I didn't?

I happen to be most interested in the P-47 and the Spitfire IX... but if I only contributed $40, I would receive neither.

Why is this the requirement?

I think people with a lower level of contribution should have the choice of any two aircraft.

For those who didn't contribute as much money, having to accept only the earlier choices of the P-51 and 190D does not strike me as reasonable.

I think some people would be perfectly prepared to wait for the other later build aircraft choices to become available.

DCS already has these player's money, why the requirement their choices be restricted?

Sorry, I don't like this solution... It is not fair in my opinion. :thmbdwn:

vranac
Jul-07-2014, 15:07
Now is somehow clearer why Ilya isn't there anymore.

Vlerkies
Jul-07-2014, 15:16
Any solution that offers 'something' is better than nothing, which is exactly where the kickstarter left everyone that backed before ED stepped in.

Marmus
Jul-07-2014, 15:17
While I understand the original offer to supporters with lower contributions to give them all the aircraft is likely unsustainable, I don't like the way the aircraft choices are awarded.

I am fortunate in having made a larger contribution and receive all the choices, but what if I didn't?

I happen to be most interested in the P-47 and the Spitfire IX... but if I only contributed $40, I would receive neither.

Why is this the requirement?

I think people with a lower level of contribution should have the choice of any two aircraft.

For those who didn't contribute as much money, having to accept only the earlier choices of the P-51 and 190D does not strike me as reasonable.

I think some people would be perfectly prepared to wait for the other later build aircraft choices to become available.

DCS already has these player's money, why the requirement their choices be restricted?

Sorry, I don't like this solution... It is not fair in my opinion. :thmbdwn:

While I agree it is unfair, every piece of paper, no matter how thin, has two sides. I assume there is a financial reason....like most of the work on the 190 was already done and is out of another budget, or something like that. Good thing we don't have to deal with beancounters!

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

ATAG_Monkeynut
Jul-07-2014, 15:18
I lost the p47 out of this new restructure and get 2 planes I might never fly...

Similar here, I only backed it for the spit, but unless p and p is included I just missed out.

ATAG_Snapper
Jul-07-2014, 15:26
Hi Snapper,
Is this what you mean?

"In this July 2014 update, the primary news is in regards to the restructured backer rewards. After a careful review of the older system under RRG, we found it financially unattainable. However, the restructured system still provides an excellent value for your backing contribution. For example: each aircraft will retail at $49.99; however, you will receive the item instead at only $20.00. This is in addition to other items such as the Normandy map ($20 contribution and above) and other perks as the backing contribution level rises."

Cats . . .

That's EXACTLY what I was thinking of. Hey, I'm a fast reader. It just takes a day or two to be assimilated.....

Thanks, Cats!


:)

ATAG_Monkeynut
Jul-07-2014, 16:15
That's EXACTLY what I was thinking of. Hey, I'm a fast reader. It just takes a day or two to be assimilated.....

Thanks, Cats!


:)

I have a feeling they mean that the restructured reward tiers mean we are getting an aircraft for each 20 bucks we pledged, plus the map, not that we'll get additional aircraft for 20 each as backers, rather than paying retail. Hope I'm wrong, it's not worded well, but that's how I read it. So my pledge now means I get an aircraft I already paid full price for, two I probably won't use, and missed the one I actually want by $8 and will have to pay $49.99 for it. :(

ATAG_Colander
Jul-07-2014, 17:12
Don't know but, I'm not getting the 262 because of the exchange rate cutting a few bucks bellow their new mark :(

Bounder!
Jul-07-2014, 17:34
I hear ya, Recon. I'm in the same boat since I already own the P51D (paid full retail) and was looking forward to the Spit IX and the Jug. That said, I'm just glad the project is still going ahead and not abandoned altogether. We'll see what the future holds, I'm sure ED is not happy at having to do this restructuring.

^^ This. It's not an ideal solution but the KS failed, I'm just glad ED are still making the content. I backed to support the project, not primarily for freebies and whilst it is a shame people aren't getting all they had hoped, at least we are getting something. That said it would be nice if people could pick their free a/c rather than the new system where many of the lower tier backers will end up with duplicate P51 keys and miss out on an a/c they really wanted but I do understand why they are doing it this way.

TWC_SLAG
Jul-07-2014, 18:17
I, for one, don't understand why they are doing it this way. How will giving me a choice "break the bank", if the planes are all the same price?

Could it be that the P-51 has, by now, no incremental cost to them, since the development costs have been covered by sales? If so, that's really small of them.

badfinger



^^ This. It's not an ideal solution but the KS failed, I'm just glad ED are still making the content. I backed to support the project, not primarily for freebies and whilst it is a shame people aren't getting all they had hoped, at least we are getting something. That said it would be nice if people could pick their free a/c rather than the new system where many of the lower tier backers will end up with duplicate P51 keys and miss out on an a/c they really wanted but I do understand why they are doing it this way.

ATAG_Freya
Jul-07-2014, 20:14
I don't get it either. I am glad to support this project, like many, and am grateful for any and all who contribute to the flight sim genre, and I understand that business is business and the almighty dollar rules us, but still I'm quite cheesed that all I get now is a key to a plane I already have plus another that I don't really want. I want a jug dammit! I hope things change and we can at least pick the a/c what we want. I'm just a measly peasant who coughed up a lowly 40 hard earned bucks, so I'm glad I didn't sell a kidney or something! Now... where did I put my pitchfork and my torch? I feel like going for a little walk... :grrr:

ATAG_Monkeynut
Jul-08-2014, 02:46
Maybe you should have sold a kidney Freya, then you'd be a diamond backer! :)

I can see why they have done it, my guess is they know that most if not all backers already have the p51 and that the higher tiered aircraft are likely to be the highest sellers. Feels like we have been tossed a bone, but by giving us a choice of aircraft they would be seriously denting potential earnings from the project. I can understand why they have done it, but I wish we could have a choice, I would swap my 3 for a spit ix!

Hood
Jul-08-2014, 03:44
I kinda get this as the KS funds probably only allowed the making of 1 plane or the map or not even that. The timescale for release of the other planes (i.e. not the P51 or D9) and the map is long-term(ish) and they'd run out of money if they couldn't sell other aircraft along the way.

August 2014 – Fw 190 D-9 Dora
October 2014 - BF-109K
December 2014- Spitfire IX
March 2015 - P-47D-30
May 2015 - Normandy Map with period AI units
Other features like the Me.262A-1 and AI-only B-17G are also in development we but do not have a delivery data estimate at this time until these other features are further along.

Personally I'd rather have the map and choice of 2 aircraft (D9 and Spit for me) but it is what it is and thankfully it is moving forward despite the absolute frustration we all must feel.

I'm assuming everyone has to pay full price for new aircraft after the D9, though backers get the map as well.

Hood

AKA_Recon
Jul-08-2014, 08:50
Maybe you should have sold a kidney Freya, then you'd be a diamond backer! :)

I can see why they have done it, my guess is they know that most if not all backers already have the p51 and that the higher tiered aircraft are likely to be the highest sellers. Feels like we have been tossed a bone, but by giving us a choice of aircraft they would be seriously denting potential earnings from the project. I can understand why they have done it, but I wish we could have a choice, I would swap my 3 for a spit ix!

Confused... How does having a p47 instead of Dora and 109k lose them money?

I contributed $85 - you'd think that would be enough ?

It's not like I've received keys already

AKA_Recon
Jul-08-2014, 08:53
Then to add, when I'm ready to get those, they will make money on it

IMO they will do well if the map and online play is good - but if not I suspect the excitement will wear down fast.

Also I think online play will suffer without any ground attck/bombers

AKA_Recon
Jul-08-2014, 08:54
I'm also not sure the ww2 market is good for them.

I think they should have stuck with jets.

I'd contribute KS money for them to churn out new jets/ maps for current setup

Uwe
Jul-08-2014, 23:35
Christ I'm glad they didn't. I don't give a hootin' holler in hell for anything past the F86. I wouldn't have given them a penny, but now I'll practically write them a blank check.

Hood
Jul-09-2014, 08:11
They only need to add A8s, G10s and Typhoons plus a host of ground objects then it'll be good for multiplayer. As it is the game experience aka fun will be short lived for me - I'm more action orientated than click every single control.

Maybe if it takes off we'll have a full on experience in a couple of years. The cost puts BOS into perspective though.

Hood

Falco
Jul-09-2014, 10:12
Don't know but, I'm not getting the 262 because of the exchange rate cutting a few bucks bellow their new mark :(
Same here, I put in 110.00, now I'm short 10.00 bucks of getting the 262:sobbing:

ATAG_Colander
Jul-09-2014, 10:23
Christ I'm glad they didn't. I don't give a hootin' holler in hell for anything past the F86.
+1

SoW Reddog
Jul-09-2014, 11:32
If you're not getting what you want can you not get a refund, and just buy the module full price when it comes out?

9./JG52 Hans Gruber
Jul-09-2014, 13:55
If you're not getting what you want can you not get a refund, and just buy the module full price when it comes out?

No refunds. The money is spent. RRG is out of business. My question is how can there not be any announcement on Kickstarter that the project has in fact failed? If ED is picking up the pieces and everything we get now is goodwill on their part there should be some recognition on Kickstarter that everything pledged by RRG is now null and void. Legally this seems a little iffy to me.

Foul Ole Ron
Jul-09-2014, 14:02
Same here, I put in 110.00, now I'm short 10.00 bucks of getting the 262:sobbing:

You have the Mustang already right? 100 bucks gives you the opportunity to pick 5 planes so you can go with the 190, 109, Spit IX, P47 & 262. This has been confirmed by Sithspawn.

J-HAT
Jul-09-2014, 14:47
Now that makes more sense. Thanks FOR.

Mysticpuma
Jul-09-2014, 14:54
I'm in for $122 :)

All planes and Map. To be honest I only really want the Spitfire and P-47.....so be on the lookout for the 109, Dora and Me-262 for competition prizes at a later date :)

Cheers, MP

Falco
Jul-09-2014, 16:14
You have the Mustang already right? 100 bucks gives you the opportunity to pick 5 planes so you can go with the 190, 109, Spit IX, P47 & 262. This has been confirmed by Sithspawn.

thanks I did not see that,:woohoo:

major_setback
Jul-10-2014, 04:37
I will never back a flight sim again.
I only pledged my money because I wanted printed manuals, and the certain content that was offered for the amount I pledged. I can't see why people aren't outraged by this.
You pledge a certain amount on the understanding you will recieve certain items. Isn't that a contract between two parties? One party can't just decide to give less than agreed upon. What if they decide next that it is all too expensive and we will instead recieve 1 plane for one year and after that need to pay by the month?
I will never do any further transactions with this company. You would never know what you would end up recieving.

Cheers, Setback

92 Sqn. Philstyle (QJ-P)
Jul-10-2014, 06:06
I will never back a flight sim again.
I only pledged my money because I wanted printed manuals, and the certain content that was offered for the amount I pledged. I can't see why people aren't outraged by this.
You pledge a certain amount on the understanding you will recieve certain items. Isn't that a contract between two parties? One party can't just decide to give less than agreed upon. What if they decide next that it is all too expensive and we will instead recieve 1 plane for one year and after that need to pay by the month?
I will never do any further transactions with this company. You would never know what you would end up recieving.
Cheers, Setback

Well, they never committed to supply - no contract. In fact the kick starter conditions probably give them recourse to deliver whatever they like.
What "Backers" have done, is essentially the role of investors. However, they've not been given any shares in the project or company. The whole concept is a subversion of a decent consumer model where the supplier and consumer agree to a specific service or good in exchange for an agreed price. Outside of that arrangement, the alternative should be some kind of ownership in the company or project.

Kick-starter is there for FANs, not for consumers or investors. The concept of the paying FAN would hardly have been possible 20 years ago. Not because of technology, but because people didn't used to think of goods and services with club-like (or even religious-like) attachment they way that brands are designed to operate now. Customer loyalty has gone to this bizarre extreme of taking money from consumers before any kind of product is even produced.. it's really quite strange when you think about it, in historical economic terms....

It's also interesting what kinds of sums of money people are paying for games now too. Although, I can understand this when games have many hundreds of hours of re-play ability.
I've had around 1500 hours of entertainment from CloD so fay - so I guess, even if I HAD paid $100 for it, the per-minute value is vastly superior to many other forms of entertainment.

Ctrl e
Jul-10-2014, 06:39
Ww2 flight sims is hardly a booming industry. These changes mean we will likely get something rather than nothing.

If you're going to have a sulk over the lack of printed manuals you're doomed to suffer a lot of disappointment in this game!

Continu0
Jul-10-2014, 07:09
@setback: you donated / backed rrg-studios, which does no longer exist. In fact, it's only because of DCS that you will recieve anything at all. I for one am greatfull towards DCS for saving this project. the one that I will never back again is Luthier.

and +1 to phil!

major_setback
Jul-10-2014, 13:46
DCS have a moral obligation (not a legal one) to honour backers' pledges.
This is not about a couple of printed manuals, quite obviously. It's about honouring agreements, whether made directly by the company or as a part of agreements made with earlier partners.
People have been nice enough to show faith in this product and endorsed that faith with monetary assurances when asked and begged to do so. And there was a lot of begging. DCS are making a mistake if they fail to invest in those who backed the early development of their game. Those die-hard enthusiasts are their future.

Hood
Jul-10-2014, 14:05
DCS have a moral obligation (not a legal one) to honour backers' pledges.


That may be why we're getting something rather than nothing. After all did they have to make the DCS FW190D-9 available to backers? That will cost them a fair bit in lost revenue. Maybe they'll make money in the WWII franchise but not if it's in its current still-born phase.

You can always just go via KS to try and get your money back. No this isn't a serious suggestion but it isn't intended to be a dismissive/insulting one.

It's a pretty poor situation all round but it seems we have an outcome that leaves everyone a bit annoyed, but not as disappointed as if it had been canned altogether.

Hood

major_setback
Jul-10-2014, 16:12
It would not cost them a penny in revenue if they gave me an aircraft or two or three. It would only be a loss for them if I would have had any intention of paying for these aircraft in the future.

Continu0
Jul-10-2014, 16:36
It would not cost them a penny in revenue if they gave me an aircraft or two or three. It would only be a loss for them if I would have had any intention of paying for these aircraft in the future.

which can be assumed for many of the backers... I for one would have bought the Dora had there been a kickstarter or not.

Setback, I totally understand your disapointment, but still I think that it was RRG`s fault and not the one of DCS, so I for one am greatful for the clear statement of DCS for the project. Sure, I would have loved those printed manuals, but after all it`s the virtual aircraft that I am going to love even more...

Hood
Jul-10-2014, 19:41
It would not cost them a penny in revenue if they gave me an aircraft or two or three. It would only be a loss for them if I would have had any intention of paying for these aircraft in the future.

So if you have no intention it is no loss to you if you get nothing.

Fair enough so what's the problem?

Question is, did ED/DCS get any if the Kickstarter money or not. I don't know but if they didn't then they could have cancelled everything, bought the software development as is then sold it later as pure DCS modules. Then you'd have lost everything.

It seems to me that your ire shouldn't be directed at DCS but RRG or Luthier or whatever he'll call himself now.

Hood

Skoshi_Tiger
Jul-10-2014, 23:08
I only pledged my money because I wanted printed manuals, and the certain content that was offered for the amount I pledged. I can't see why people aren't outraged by this.

The printed manuals were also the major reason I chose the level I did and I am also very disappointed. Because of where I live I also had to pay a premium of about $12US (IIRC) to get the physical rewards delivered- that's almost another flyable just there.

It sux rather badly, though I am grateful that DCS is salvaging the project. Now they just have to get the thing happening.

All-in-all I'm fairly disappointed in all the my recent funding and pre-purchase decisions (Star Citizen, WWII, BOS). None of them are living up to the hype.

Thank God for you guys at Team Fusion keeping CoD alive!

RAF74_Buzzsaw
Jul-11-2014, 00:29
All-in-all I'm fairly disappointed in all the my recent funding and pre-purchase decisions (Star Citizen, WWII, BOS). None of them are living up to the hype.

Well, actually I think we will see a very good product from DCS. I am convinced their new WWII aircraft will be up to the standards of the existing P-51.

Those aircraft may be a bit more expensive to purchase than originally expected, but I think RRG was guilty of promising more than they could deliver for the original price.

Skoshi_Tiger
Jul-11-2014, 02:20
Well, actually I think we will see a very good product from DCS. I am convinced their new WWII aircraft will be up to the standards of the existing P-51.

Those aircraft may be a bit more expensive to purchase than originally expected, but I think RRG was guilty of promising more than they could deliver for the original price.

Your right Buzzsaw.

DCS WWII is a funny one because I've liked everything I've seen of it. My disappointment is mainly with what happened in it's development. I'm sure I'll get back on the band wagon when I get to fly the Mustang or the Spitfire on a period map.

Cheers!

1lokos
Jul-11-2014, 13:21
I only pledged my money because I wanted printed manuals

I pledge and pay more because these printed manuals.

But after lurk at (WiP one for Fw 190 and knowing that:

"Luthier was contracted to continue work on helping with some of the manuals."

And remembering the ridiculous CLoD manual "If some (AI) shoot you down, take control or his plane and crash then..." :-P
I dont care more, better that postage value add to plane keys.

:thumbsup:

Sokol1

Tempered
Jul-11-2014, 23:03
So, at the $75 backer level, I'm getting shafted out of a few planes and a printed manual. I'm certainly not happy about it, and I do hope that DCS has the good grace of letting us choose which planes we want.

As far as Luthier goes, I'm pretty sure that the kickstarter agreement states that anyone running a kickstarter is contractually obligated to deliver on the rewards. DCS allowed their name to be plastered all over the kickstarter page as being a partner, which probably makes them some what liable as well. Lets face it, how many would have backed Luthier if he did not have DCS behind him. Not that any of the legal BS means anything. Who in their right mind would try to sue Luthier or DCS.