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BlueHeron
Aug-02-2014, 00:15
I'm having a difficult time with the early variant of the hurricane, the one with a two-speed propeller pitch. I seem to be able to only reach 220 Mph in cruise, and in a dive I'm not able to exceed 240 Mph. Is that normal?

When engaging a group of Ju88's, I simply can't catch them. They just fly away forever. :(

Am I missing something?

trademe900
Aug-02-2014, 03:02
Hey mate. First of all, what altitude are you taking this IAS reading from?

What do you mean exactly by 'exceed 240mph dive'? Do you mean before the airframe reaches it's physical limits, the motor blows, or when it just won't go faster? In any case, it is definitely faster than this.

Also another thing to keep in mind is that a Ju88 is a seriously fast airplane in level speed and can hold off Spitfires and Hurricanes for a good while if it's pushed. This also depends on another few things. If you are referring to online on the ATAG server then it is no surprise you are having a hard time because people will always push them hard. If you are talking about a single-player AI plane formation that you created with the Full Mission Builder then I would suggest you double check the speeds for the waypoints they are travelling because the AI planes can fly much faster than players. They can also fly very fast whilst holding perfect formation.

RAF74_Buzzsaw
Aug-02-2014, 14:11
I can tell you categorically the Hurricane I Rotol 100 octane is faster than the Ju-88A at all altitudes in level flight.

However, in a slight dive, a Ju-88A will be able to maintain nearly the same speed as a Hurricane.

And if the Hurricane is climbing up to catch the Ju-88a, the bomber will outrun it quite easily.

If you are flying a Hurricane DH5-20 100 octane, you will have more problems as this model climbs more slowly and accelerates slower. It is still faster than the Ju-88a at all heights.

You also need to be sure your aircraft is trimmed correctly and that you have your radiator set to optimum cooling/drag configuration.

The RAF historical pilot reports are full of comments about how fast the Ju-88a was, and how much difficulty they had in catching them.

You should be aware the RAF aircraft were all using 100 octane fuel during the BoB, none of the 87 octane versions were in use.

So if you are using an 87 octane variant, you do not have the correct matchup.

Regarding your speed readings, you should be aware, if you are at higher than sea level, the readings on your pilot instruments will not give you True Airspeed. (TAS) They give you Indicated Airspeed, (IAS) which has to be converted into TAS to get the actual speed of your aircraft.

Here is a site which will convert speeds for you:

http://www.csgnetwork.com/tasinfocalc.html

BlueHeron
Aug-02-2014, 14:15
Thanks for the info.

I've observed this anywhere between 2,000 and 10,000 feet. If I go into a dive, my IAS will never read more than 240mph and it doesn't feel like I'm picking up any speed. This is with the radiator nearly shut and the propeller pitch set to coarse.

The AI Ju88's I can't catch are in the No. 111 Squadron campaign of Desastersoft's Wick vs. Dundas. And I've found the same when setting up a quick mission. So if the Ju88's are that fast, it seems like the campaign mission is nearly impossible to beat.

I love the realism in these sims but man, sometimes it's hard! ;)

RAF74_Buzzsaw
Aug-02-2014, 14:49
Thanks for the info.

I've observed this anywhere between 2,000 and 10,000 feet. If I go into a dive, my IAS will never read more than 240mph and it doesn't feel like I'm picking up any speed. This is with the radiator nearly shut and the propeller pitch set to coarse.

The Hurricanes have their best speed advantage over the Ju-88's between 2000 - 10,000 ft which is where +12 boost cutout can be used. Are you using boost cutout? (not sure what this campaign has listed for the types available... but as I said they should be 100 octane types... you can edit the mission to insert the correct types if you need to)

Re your IAS speed readings: Are you sure you are not reversing your prop pitch? There is no way you should be limited to 240 mph in coarse pitch. There must be some error on your part.

BlueHeron
Aug-02-2014, 15:05
I'll try this again this weekend to see if which model I'm using in the campaign.

Osprey
Aug-02-2014, 15:06
I haven't seen those missions in the FMB but it is possible that the Ju88's are set too high. The Ju88 cruises @ 270kmph or so but the FMB will always default to 300kmph. It can be damn hard catching them if waypoints are at default, in my missions I always set correct waypoint speeds.

RAF74_Buzzsaw
Aug-02-2014, 17:27
Don't forget to check to make sure your flaps are not deployed or your cockpit isn't open.

Both will slow you down considerably.

BlueHeron
Aug-02-2014, 19:12
Yep, I'm definitely flying a clean ship.

RAF74_Buzzsaw
Aug-03-2014, 00:08
Ok, I just took a break from creating the new Flight Models for the Tiger Moth to test the Hurricane DH5-20 100 octane version.

Using Quick Mission, in a dive from 6000 ft, I was able to achieve 380 mph at my pullout at sea level, using Coarse pitch and +12 boost.

In level flight at 8000 ft, using +12 boost, Coarse pitch and 3/4 open radiator I was able to achieve 260 mph IAS which translates to approx. 301 mph TAS. I could have gone faster if I closed down the radiator a little more, my temperatures were rock steady on 110 degrees with 3/4 rad.

I also noticed (once again) that the speedometer gauge on the Hurricane and Spitfire has two needles and two readouts in the same gauge. One inside, one outside.

The outside needle goes from 0 mph to 240 mph. It stops at 240 mph.

Then the speed is taken up with the inside needle which goes up to max. speed.

Are you perhaps confused by the outside needle stopping at 240 mph?

Osprey
Aug-04-2014, 09:49
Good thinking Buzz, reckon that's it. Yeah Blue Heron, the 'big hand' stops at 240 and the 'little hand' takes over on the inner ring. You must be reading that. As for not catching them once you hit 260mph+ then that's probably the mission builder. Open up the mission in the FMB and check the speeds for each waypoint. I'll wager they are 300kmph+

ATAG_Snapper
Aug-04-2014, 10:37
A little tip I took from Buzzsaw is to try the airplane in Single Player and go to No Cockpit View (what we call the "Wonder Woman View" :D) but have instruments "on". These instruments are not exactly like the authentic instruments modelled in the ATAG Server, they're a little more straightforward and much easier to read with precision. Excellent for testing purposes.

It was here that I was able to see that the Spitfire 1a 100 octane could indeed reach 310 mph IAS on the deck (110% throttle = 12 lbs boost, 2950 rpms = 89% pitch, radiator open 50%) and, as the glycol (water) needle gradually crawls towards 120 C you get *about* 6.5 minutes before your radiator "perforates". If you can live with 307 mph just drop your rpms down to 84% and you can go 15+ minutes.....good for a quick cross-Channel scamper home with no ammo. Been there, done it many times! :D

(The Spitfire 2a is not quite as fast as the 1a 100 octane, but it's no slouch, plus it's cooling system is much more robust. This is a good feature in the excitement of a dogfight. Plus it's my Spittie of choice at 25+ angels where I live...).

I'd be the first to say the Ju88 is very, very fast as it was historically.) If it has a good lead and I'm co-altitude or lower I won't bother chasing it home. It's likely a chase I won't return from. Similarly if I'm intercepting a Ju88 I want a lot of height to start with. The Clod virtual Ju88 pilots are getting very good at taking over its AI rear gunner, so a slow closing speed from behind is a good way to get hit. Also, the stop watch is running when you attack ANY LW bomber. Every second it takes to engage a bomber is one more second for a 109 to line you up.

1. Start from height.

2. Get in and get out quickly

3. Learn abeam attacks and deflection shooting

4. Get in close before shooting

5. Don't get target-fixated -- break off and avoid temptation of "getting that extra half second burst in"

6. ALWAYS check 6 and your temps before each firing pass.

Now I just need to follow my own advice.

:)

BlueHeron
Aug-04-2014, 17:35
Blimey! What hope is there if I can't even read the airspeed indicator correctly? Indeed I wasn't looking at the little needle but now I see I can reach speeds well over 240Mph. And with the help of the boost cut-off, I can now catch up with the Ju88's and send a couple of them into the channel!

Thanks, all.

RAF74_Buzzsaw
Aug-04-2014, 17:43
...The Spitfire 2a is not quite as fast as the 1a 100 octane...

Spit IIa is faster than IA at altitudes over 10,000 ft.