Which accelerates faster?

[Recoilfx]

So which accelerates faster? 109 or a Rotol Hurri? I switched to Brit last night and I had a horrible time staying alive with the 109s (granted it was 4 109 vs 1 brit).

[ATAG_Snapper]

I would say the 109 in most co-energy circumstances in this sim, assuming equal pilot skill.

I say this only based on recent personal experience -- I was on the deck in a scissoring knife fight with the 109. We were co-e, I was at a possible disadvantage in flying with full fuel load while it's likely the 109 was low on fuel. I had just taken off from Manston and he was heading back home. He had just disengaged with another Rotol and was streaming different coloured smoke -- white, grey, and brown.

Figuring him to be easy meat I throttled down to finish him off. My mistake -- a big one. Suddenly the fluid streaming stopped, and he accelerated into a curving climb above me. I was caught like a noob. We scissored a few times, he flew better than me and finally got a firing solution on me. My controls were hit, engine hit, and cockpit went red, then black. It was over.

Just my observation, others may disagree. But I saw what I saw. :happy

[Recoilfx]

Sounds like brits are doomed against good 109 drivers.

My experience has been that Spit Ias run like turtles while Hurricanes turn like turtles. Gunnery is easier (better tracers), but it's rather impossible to win against 109 pilot who knows how to retain/gain his energy.

[ATAG_Snapper]

Unfortunately, I haven't run into many BAD 109 drivers! :bgsmile:

Seriously, most that I've encountered are very, very good. In level flight I'd say the Rotol and 109 are pretty evenly matched (fuel loadouts being equivalent, I guess) with possibly an edge to the 109 over a long distance. I can get an honest 260 mph IAS at sea level (6.5 lbs overboost, 2500 rpms, radiator 50%). I have to fly the Rotol like a fast car on ice with summer tires -- very easy to enter an accelerated stall with too much stick input. Care must be taken in a dive with the Rotol or it will shed its ailerons, then tail control surfaces. The Spitfire 1a seems more robust in a dive, and can be hauled around in a turn better than the Rotol.

The Rotol does hold a steadier aim than the Spit (in my experience anywsy, others may disagree). The Rotol can certainly be deadly when the right things are done: get altitude, use the sun behind you, look for opportunity below, keep your e state up, don't get sucked into a disadvantage (like I did above).

Like anything else, the Hurri, Spit, or 109 pilot has to fly and fight SMART or the tables can turn quickly.

And then there's the sharp turning Stukas.......LOL

[ATAG_Colander]

And then there's the sharp turning Stukas.......LOL

That would be Keller's expertise. :bgsmile:

[Recoilfx]

260mph overboost? That's ~418kmph ... Just slightly slower than 1.4 ata 109... I think we can push 450kmph... I thought rotol hurris are faster than 109s.

[ATAG_Snapper]

Heh, can't tell you how many times I've made a run for home across the Channel at wavetop height, low on fuel, throttle on full overboost, tweaking the CSP pitch control, fully trimmed out, etc. 260 mph at wavetop is tops. Others may claim more, but I'd love to see a video of it in a prolonged run (ie no energy from a shallow dive beforehand -- true level flight).

The Spit IIa, OTOH.....280 easily at full boost (8+ lbs boost -- gauge scale maxes at 8 lbs). I believe I had it to 290/295 full out, but you can blow the engine after a short while.

[ATAG_Snapper]

That would be Keller's expertise. :bgsmile:

DEFINITELY!!!! (and he's been training others.....:shocked: )

[Ohms]

I think it really comes down to who has the advantage early in the fight.I don't want to say better pilot because that would imply if you get shot down your crap(so to speak) which is not true, the other guy just took advantage of the opportunity presented to him.I'm pretty good in a Hurri but cannot for the life of me fight or fly a 109 or Spit always get my rear end handed to me.AS for acceleration i think snapper hit the nail on the head.

[Doc]

When server 2 was testing the new mission and the Spitfire IIa was there I saddled up a IIa and met Keller some place. We spent a little more than an hour turning, climbing and racing. Now I know this isn't the Hurri and I have less than 1 hour with any of these machines in actual combat. But ask Keller what happened. All I heard was keep that boost needle on that diamond as much as possible and you're good to go!! So I did my best. :thumbsup: Once the Spit gets close enough to the 109 to read the serial number its all over. You just cannot allow that to enter your mind. You have to keep almost every advantage and bug out when you don't. And by all means if you're the lone 109 then you're looking for trouble.

[ATAG_Torian]

I think ur right about the full tank of fuel Snapper. U would have been much less
agile with all that onboard. Even having said that u are always in a pickle in a 1v1
against a good 109 pilot in a Hurri if u don't hit him in the 1st pass (I mean "u" in
the collective sense). A 109 will also out-dive a Hurri and then use that e to out-
climb as well (as it will against a Spit 1a too). At least u have half a chance in a
Spit 1a in a turn fight but not many good 109 pilots are gonna buy into that.
What Doc and Keller did in the 2nd server is a good idea. Get a friend and go find
out what u can and can't do in each respective plane or better still create ur own
server with outside views enabled so u can have full views of what ur planes are
doing.

[335th_GRAthos]

So which accelerates faster? 109 or a Rotol Hurri?

If I remember correctly (I may be wrong though...) wingload is one of the main parameters that affect acceleration (the other being thrust-to-weight ratio).
The Bf109 has higher wingload thus accelerates much faster when you dip the nose.

The thrust to weight ratio should not have major impact for the time being among these planes I think.
At least not as long you do not have 100oct fuel (says Athos, running for cover :hiding:)


I switched to Brit last night and I had a horrible time staying alive with the 109s (granted it was 4 109 vs 1 brit).

There are old pilots and there are bold pilots.
But there are no old bold pilots... ;)


~S~

[ATAG_JTDawg]

109 every time, in a rotol i can get up to 280, if a newer 109 pilot.( not good with prop pitch) i can catch up might take a ride accross channel but can be done ,e4 cant even come close to catch up with, in dive climb what ever ,but i think once you know your rotol you can out turn most 109s. P.S. I go up with no more than 50% fuel, normally 45 . normally about 3rd time around your on their 6. :shocked: You just have to remember the hurri dosn't like fast jerking movement normally coused by finding a 109 on your tale. So start turn then pull harder till almost blacked out. not a spit pilot so can't say much on them,

[ATAG_NakedSquirrel]

The Rotol we have in game right now goes just a hair slower than the 109 (When they use WEP).

I am always watching Rotol pilots bleed off way too much E in those things. You can't yank on the stick like a play-toy. Let the 109 make its tight turns, just climb up and keep an eye on him. Once he's done wasting all of his E thinking he's out turning you, dive back down and have a hay-day.

Also, when a 109 Climbs, don't stall out with him. Take your shot and keep your speed. Let him stall out and then take another pass.

As long as you maintain E you can easily crawl up the tailpipe of a 109.

The main difference is that the 109 has fuel injection so that it can stall on the prop without losing its engine. This is something a lot of Russian pilots like to do. You'll see them climb vertically into the sun and stall out. It's not an impossible move to counter, you can easily climb up with them and even take a shot on the way up, but the difference is you need to know when your plane is going to stall. If you hang too long and stall out, it will take your engine a good 2-3 seconds to start back up. So take your shot and bank into a normal climb. Just because he's climbing at a steep angle doesn't mean he'll actually out climb you in the long run. Once he runs out of E, that 109 will come falling down like a brick.

Don't think you have to be on someone's 6 o'clock all of the time. Altitude and Speed are powerful tools.

I don't know how this thing is going to handle after the patch. Right now the chart they released shows it to be the same speed as the Spit 1a, but I can get the Rotol going a lot faster than the 1a with proper prop pitch.

I guess historically it is supposed to be slower than the Spit, but right now it's the fastest bird on the red side (beside the SpitII). I've tried taking up the DH-20 to get a feel for how the Rotol might handle after the patch. The DH-20 is definitely outclassed. I was able to rack up a couple of kills in it, so it's not completely useless, but I don't think it's very pleasant to fly in combat. If you're fighting with someone who has half an idea of what they're doing, your toast. Who really knows what the new performance will be like until we actually get a patch.

Red won't get any quick birds until the Mustang, Typhoon, or Aircobra are out (I think those are all 1941 birds) though they'll have to deal with the Fw-190. I don't know how fast the early 190's went.

[Robo.]

This is very good post, NakedSquirrel :thumbsup: Still, the 109 accelerates faster if it comes to gaining speed after you both slow down for whatever reason. The 109 driver must know his RPM lever, of course.

Very good points regarding vertical fights vs. 109, 100% agreed. Funnily enough, some Russian pilots will say it was only luck that you shot them down anyway :Grin::Grin:

And just as you say, this will be thing of the past once the new patch comes out I am afraid. Never mind, we'll figure out something else. :hpyclp: