Bf-109 Introduction to Navigation (narrated)

[3./JG51_Heiden]

This is a narrated introduction to basic navigation while flying the Bf-109. If anyone would like more detailed instruction please respond here or contact me on the ATAG forums. Enjoy and I hope you find this useful!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGDUC5lTvJY&list=UUouxqbVLTQRue1omZ-INlag

[keeno]

Heiden,

Thanks for the video, it was really well done and clearly explained also plenty of useful tips when using the CloD map.

I'm off to check out more of your vids.


great stuff and cheers.

[3./JG51_Heiden]

I'm glad you liked it! If you would like some instruction on something I have yet to cover, just let me know. I can make a new video or give you personalized instruction by appointment.

[trademe900]

Great work.

[3./JG51_Heiden]

Great work.

Thanks Trade, means a lot coming from a pilot of your calibre!

[ChiefRedCloud]

Very nice and very helpful ..... thanks

Chief

[Donnerschlag]

Awesome! Thank you for your clear instruction. Finally I'll find my way home!:)

[3./JG51_Heiden]

Glad I can be of service! Don't forget this command:

TAB --> 7 --> 2

This will give you a vector back to the base. Simply fly that course and it'll take you to your starting airfield. Now that you can read the compass you should have no trouble getting back.

[Donnerschlag]

Thanks pal!!!:)

[Stab/JG1_Britchot]

Great description of the basics in simple terms. I learned quite a few things about the map, myself.

I posted this on the Youtube channel but I'll put it up here for pilots that may not go there to watch the video. The magnetic compass is accurately modeled in CloD so you have to compensate for the lag and acceleration. Here's a short video that describes UNOS (Undershoot North, Overshoot South) as well as ANDS (Accelerate North, Decelerate South).


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAMnzB_7K-k

[3./JG51_Heiden]

Thanks for the additional information, Brichot. Should answer some questions for those who wanted to know more about the compass lag.

[blackshark]

I'm glad you liked it! If you would like some instruction on something I have yet to cover, just let me know. I can make a new video or give you personalized instruction by appointment.

hi, very good job

i would appreciate a tutorial on the use of CEM on the 109 E1-E3 ...; well i know all the concepts about prop pitch etc, but i would like more know how about the "combination" of ata/throttle/prop pitch ... for example: is it better to have a throttle at 80% and use prop pitch to go slower or faster, or is it better to have a 11:00 prop pitch and use throttle to go faster/slower ... and how to better exploit radiator to be faster etc, those kind of tips.

i would like to have live tutor online, but i am not native english so better to have it narrated/recorded so i can listen it twice to understand everything (otherwise you should have to repeat everything one or two times :stunned:)

[3./JG51_Heiden]

I think I can put together something that can help. Give me a couple days.

[Authentix]

Thanks for all of your help Heiden, it's greatly appreciated! :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

Hoping to get my first 109 points today :).

[jester_]

Oh Man, I was all over the place trying to figure out how to navigate in these prop planes. I didn't realize how much I relied on the HSD and HUD waypoint indicators in Falcon BMS to get me to where I needed to go. Thanks for this awesome guide Heiden, I've been watching a ton of your videos to help me in my conversion training (F-16 is waaaaaaaay different than the 109, who knew?) and I appreciate them all. Thanks man!

[klu.peete]

Hi Heiden.. KLu peete here. Even I did goth lost some time's.. in clod. Haha.. so i watched how you did it. It all came back to me. Setting course etc.. only one thing you forgot. The WIND.. and in clod this is a hard one now en then.. so you have to set youre cource to the wind factor to. But I know its then more divercult..
2. Find you're way is also a learning error in clod ... why .? .. well in ww2 you first flew with youre mate's a lot in youre airfield earia..you know the marking points more and more.. you speak together over ,,le havre" or dover or Manston... but now the new pilots come in, , here a spitfire warning or me109".. and off they gooo... in to the bleu... in to the shit,, waer am I.. ?? Mostly folowed by shit hits on me a... german goth.me HELP
... were are you ..i dont know... !!! Helpp...
3. So i say lets take these pilots and learn them were they are wile we fly in groeppe nach die Spits und Hurricane.. !! So i say we have to start in 1 airfield and teach the guys.. wat we know.. also.
Saluut and cu in the sky..
KLu Peete.

[spartan18a]

Thanks. Excellent vídeo :)

[klu.peete]

This is a narrated introduction to basic navigation while flying the Bf-109. If anyone would like more detailed instruction please respond here or contact me on the ATAG forums. Enjoy and I hope you find this useful!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGDUC5lTvJY&list=UUouxqbVLTQRue1omZ-INlag
Hi Heiden were can i join a german squadron or youre squodron? Do they fly sunday evening missions to ??
Saluut Klu_peete.

[junneh]

Thank you, as a new player and bf109 pilot this video came in very handy.

[bixelplik]

Thanks for the video -- very informative; and it's a lot easier to learn navigation when you can see the compass/gyro.

Speaking of which: Would anyone mind answering two questions about the more confounded configuration in the Spitfire and Hurricane?

1) When I'm flying a single mission offline, I start in the air usually, my gyro is completely off, and I absolutely can not get the course setter aligned right because I can't keep the plane straight enough; I don't think the Hurricane has any aileron trim. Is my trackir (freetrack) setup just not fine tuned enough to peak around the stick? One thing that works is to move the stick out of the way -- but that introduces more problems. I've been thinking of half-assing it and setting the gyro the best I can through terrain recognition.

Is there some magic way to get a heading from the course setter in flight?


2) If we're setting the gyro by the compass -- and readjusting it via the compass -- what is the point of the gyro? Why not just fly by the magnetic compass? There is a complicated answer on Wikipedia about the benefit of the gyro at high altitude, but it still leaves the problem of adjusting the gyro based on the supposedly faulty magnetic compass.

Thanks!

[Infinity]

Thanks for the video -- very informative; and it's a lot easier to learn navigation when you can see the compass/gyro.

Speaking of which: Would anyone mind answering two questions about the more confounded configuration in the Spitfire and Hurricane?

1) When I'm flying a single mission offline, I start in the air usually, my gyro is completely off, and I absolutely can not get the course setter aligned right because I can't keep the plane straight enough; I don't think the Hurricane has any aileron trim. Is my trackir (freetrack) setup just not fine tuned enough to peak around the stick? One thing that works is to move the stick out of the way -- but that introduces more problems. I've been thinking of half-assing it and setting the gyro the best I can through terrain recognition.

Is there some magic way to get a heading from the course setter in flight?


2) If we're setting the gyro by the compass -- and readjusting it via the compass -- what is the point of the gyro? Why not just fly by the magnetic compass? There is a complicated answer on Wikipedia about the benefit of the gyro at high altitude, but it still leaves the problem of adjusting the gyro based on the supposedly faulty magnetic compass.

Thanks!

Well, for one thing the magnetic compass isn't accurate unless you're flying straight and level. If you bank, the compass swings in the opposite direction. I think that's the main advantage of a gyro.

[bixelplik]

Well, for one thing the magnetic compass isn't accurate unless you're flying straight and level. If you bank, the compass swings in the opposite direction. I think that's the main advantage of a gyro.

Ah, yes, that is exactly the "complicated" answer from Wikipedia, which is actually quite simple but became more complicated the more I forgot what it was:


The primary means of establishing the heading in most small aircraft is the magnetic compass, which, however, suffers from several types of errors, including that created by the "dip" or downward slope of the Earth's magnetic field. Dip error causes the magnetic compass to read incorrectly whenever the aircraft is in a bank, or during acceleration, making it difficult to use in any flight condition other than perfectly straight and level. To remedy this, the pilot will typically maneuver the airplane with reference to the heading indicator, as the gyroscopic heading indicator is unaffected by dip and acceleration errors. The pilot will periodically reset the heading indicator to the heading shown on the magnetic compass.

I also found this confirmation (http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=32289) that it just ain't easy to get a good look at the course setter in spitfires -- I may even have to open the canopy...

Thanks.

[TWC_Piranha]

This is a narrated introduction to basic navigation while flying the Bf-109. If anyone would like more detailed instruction please respond here or contact me on the ATAG forums. Enjoy and I hope you find this useful!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGDUC5lTvJY&list=UUouxqbVLTQRue1omZ-INlag

Hello Heiden,
You video is a great help. When I use the protractor the map gives me exactly 180 deg opposite directions.
Do you know why this is happening? Maybe I have some setting adjusted incorrectly?
Thanks for any help.

[9./JG52 Savage]

Hello Heiden,
You video is a great help. When I use the protractor the map gives me exactly 180 deg opposite directions.
Do you know why this is happening? Maybe I have some setting adjusted incorrectly?
Thanks for any help.

I get the same issue ocassionally. I'm not positive but I believe it has something to do with the direction you drag your fist line. You can see Heiden drag it up in the video. I think that affects the heading indicated on your track line and that's why you get the reciprocal instead. This isn't gospel, just best guess.

Luckily, it's only really useful on long cross country trips where you have no intention of changing your heading. Once you get to know the map and its various landmarks, finding your way around is rather easy. Unless you're bombing, in which case, a detailed plan is a fantastic idea!

[Seafar]

Thanks Heiden,very good and easy to understand, i struggle with that stuff , but your video helped a lot thanks again.

[Baffin]

removed

[HerrBaron]

Heiden, I've seen your video, and it's a great introduction. That said, am I missing something in my use of the protractor? I never get a course readout in the lower-or upper right quadrant. I'd love some further instruction on this "tool".

Many thanks,
HerrBaron

[Gramps]

This was Great got a lot out of this will be looking at it again Thanks !

[uranor]

This is a narrated introduction to basic navigation while flying the Bf-109. If anyone would like more detailed instruction please respond here or contact me on the ATAG forums. Enjoy and I hope you find this useful!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGDUC5lTvJY&list=UUouxqbVLTQRue1omZ-INlag

Thank you for the video, especially the part on using the Protractor, I could not figure out how it worked: I guess it has been designed this way to allow one to calculate relative bearings, but not the most user friendly way and how often does one need relative bearings while flying a combat mission?! :stunned: It would have been easier if it always assumed the first line to be North-South and just give the True Course (then you have to adjust for Magnetic Variation). Anyway, another case of the developers drinking too much vodka while coding.

Since you mention in the video that you did not know why the Compass appears to work the "opposite way" in a turn here is a quick explanation. The compass is always pointing North. The little device could not care less about which direction we hapless pilots would like to go. It stubbornly always points North. Now, some outstanding german engineer attached a round dial to the North pointing needle and wrote on it a bunch of numbers representing directions. When the aircraft is turning, the stubborn compass actually tries to maintain the same orientation as before (assuming said engineer provided a nearly frictionless bearing), so, actually, the airplane is rotating around the compass and not the compass rotating to center the desired course. The practical result of this arrangement is that the compass appears to work backward, but in reality it is us pilots that think backward with respect to how the device works. A working mental model to quickly tell which way to turn is "Drag the compass heading you want toward the lubber line;" the direction in which said numbers must be "dragged" on the dial is the direction in which one must turn to center that heading. (Note: the lubber line is that line in the middle of the compass window).
Then there is the matter of the North-South lag in turns. Note that turns to East and West work just fine (unless you are accelerating/decelerating... but that is yet another issue). We'll talk about these in another lesson, I guess.

Gyros are another matter entirely. The hapless Gyro is spinning, literally like a spin top. This poor device has no sense whatsoever about where North might be. It does, however, have a great resiliency to any perturbation and keeps rotating about its axis not caring about anything else. If mounted on a gymbal it always points in the same direction in 3D space. With approriate mounting, a dial then indicates the direction of the turn, assuming that the pilot took the trouble to initialize the device to a heading that matches the actual direction of the aircraft (hence the Course Setter of British fighters). The practical result is that the gyro tells us in which direction to turn for the heading we want, without "inversion." That is if you initialized it correctly, otherwise it will happily send you on a wild goose chase in a random direction.

There is more to the story and will gladly provide more info if requested.

Thanks for the video! Please do more.

~S
Uranor

[Trooper117]

Good video thanks!

[1lokos]

: I guess it has been designed this way to allow one to calculate relative bearings, but not the most user friendly way and how often does one need relative bearings while flying a combat mission?!

A fighter pilot don't need use Map Tools, specially during combat mission, this Tools is useful for bomber pilots use - before start flight.

Fighter pilots only need know this "Rule of the thumb": England is at North and France at South. :)

Maps Tools is another good idea that in CloD is implemented unfinished - lack ability to draw more than one line (waypoints legs) over map.

Place this attached "Wind Rose"(1.tga) as dashboard picture, help with bearings and reciprocals.

I am not sure, but think that internal scales is considering Magnetic Deviation, one for short distances, one for long distances and reflect the Magnetic Deviation in "Dr.WH'Oleg" world and not the value of real world in 1940.

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