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III./ZG76_Keller
Mar-18-2012, 20:03
I think we need to adjust the difficulty of ground targets, as it stands right now it is far too easy for the Red team to complete all their ground objectives.

One Blenheim to each target with an accurate bomb drop will complete an objective, while tonight 2 Ju-87, 4 Bf-110 and 2 Ju-88 missions were unable to complete the Beaufighters at Ramsgate.

Dutch
Mar-18-2012, 21:06
One Blenheim to each target with an accurate bomb drop will complete an objective.

Hmm, I think you may be right as far as the map with the tanks and the 88s are concerned, the fuel depot takes a bit more pounding.
I've taken out both the 88s and the tanks with 2x250lb-ers each before today, but you've gotta get there through the flak barrage to do it.

The map with the supply depot and the moving ships is far harder IMO, and the flak is just monstrous!:laugh1.

However, I do know that a formation of bombers thins out the AAA hugely compared to a solo run.

On the other hand, when I flew a solo 88 over England the other day, there was no AAA to speak of anywhere over England by comparison, but I can't now remember which of the maps it was. I know I circled G7 twice without a single AAA shot being fired at me.

On yet another hand, every 109 that takes off could take a bomb with it couldn't it? (correct me if I'm wrong re availability), along with all the other bomb carriers the blue team has.

I think we have to take the target difficulty, the bomb carrying aircraft available, and the severity of anti-aircraft fire all together, rather than just target difficulty in isolation, but I've no idea how difficult that may be to balance in terms of mission design.

:salute:

Doc
Mar-18-2012, 21:43
No 109-B's on any mission now.

The flack is deadly over England also. I have only had one time where I was able to make more than one pass over the G-7 target that has the buildings clustered together. Keller was snipped at over 3000m in a 111 flying over it and just right before dropping his bombs. PK'd

It all depends on how many other enemy subjects have the attention of the AAA.

Last night 2 Ju-88's took out all the ships but 1. One of them just wont go down no matter what.

Then I did a Ju-88 over the G-7 buildings and from a dive starting a 4000m did a salvo and when my automatic pull-out engaged they PK'd me and my ventral gunner Porthos. I leveled off at 850m lights out.

So AAA density is subjective to a great extent. Go in large numbers and chances for survival are raised a bit. Go it alone and you will be Swiss cheese. :shocked:

Tonka
Mar-18-2012, 21:48
as it stands right now it is far too easy for the Red team to complete all their ground objectives.

:shocked:

You're kidding?

We only complete the objectives more often because we're constantly hitting them.

For a single Blenheim to hit and destroy a target he has to be VERY lucky. Getting home again needs a miracle. It is possible, but no way a regular occurrence. Also, we're not all as good as Dutch!

At least half of my attempts result in me being hit by flak and killed over France before i get to the target.

I welcome more and/or different targets, but be under no illusions that the blenny drivers have it easy!

I cant speak for the difficulty of the blue objectives, from your description it sounds fairly even, apart from the small matter of you being able to get 8 aircraft through the flak and into the target area.

Blue needs more practice i think! :hiding: :laugh:

:salute:

III./ZG76_Keller
Mar-18-2012, 22:22
:shocked:

You're kidding?

We only complete the objectives more often because we're constantly hitting them.

For a single Blenheim to hit and destroy a target he has to be VERY lucky. Getting home again needs a miracle. It is possible, but no way a regular occurrence. Also, we're not all as good as Dutch!

At least half of my attempts result in me being hit by flak and killed over France before i get to the target.

I welcome more and/or different targets, but be under no illusions that the blenny drivers have it easy!

I cant speak for the difficulty of the blue objectives, from your description it sounds fairly even, apart from the small matter of you being able to get 8 aircraft through the flak and into the target area.

Blue needs more practice i think! :hiding: :laugh:

:salute:

I think you need to try flying a Blue bombing mission to see what I mean. The Beaufighters at Ramsgate take at least 8 x 500Kg bombs to complete, tonight for instance we dropped 8 x 500's from 110's, 2 x 500's and 8 x 50's from Stukas and 28 x 50's from a Ju-88 and it did not complete. That's enough ordinance to take out every target in France and then some. The Beaufighters need to be almost 100% destroyed, including all the tents on the East side.

The mission with the British armory at G7 takes about 8 well placed large bombs to blow up the hangers, then we need to blow them up again to get what is inside. Then it takes several more bombs to get the tanks that are on the North side of the armory.

In the following image this armory target in G7 is only about 20% complete and that's with 32 x 50kg bombs from a He-111. The target was already damaged when I hit it. All those black dots inside the hangers are tanks that have to be blown up with another bomb run.

557

In this image, this is one bombload from a Blenheim, as you can see 2 maybe 3 Ju-88s are destroyed and the target is completed.

558

It's not so much the planes that are available it's the guys that are flying them, and now that there are a lot more guys flying Blenny's things need to be evened out a bit. Just a month or two ago there were only 2-3 guys flying Blenheims; these missions were designed with that in mind.

I'm not trying to take anything away from you guys, I think it's great that you've got so many guys flying Blenheims! I used to fly bombers all the time because I was bored of hunting AI bombers, and to be honest I'm not a very good fighter pilot. Now when I fly I have just as much fun hunting human piloted Blenheims as I do bombing and regularly alternate between the two types. Hell, I'd like to see so many people flying bombers that we wouldn't need the AI planes at all!

I just want to stretch the missions out a bit because as is stands now 4-6 Blenheim pilots can end a mission in an hour or two if everything goes well. When the mission changes we end up losing a lot of population on the server and I'd rather stretch it out and keep people flying. I've seen Red complete the objectives with 5 Blenheims and then when the mission rotates none of them come back.

Tonka
Mar-18-2012, 23:11
I will get round to trying the blue bombers some-when, as long as someone can explain how to work them at the time. I will be able to speak more about the blue objectives then.

I was going to say the same to you, try flying the blenny with us one night and see for yourself how difficult things are. Without attempting to hit all the targets frequently its difficult to say if it's easy or not for other people.

I also wonder if there is something broken with the way objective completeness is measured. I have never seen the 88's destroyed at Oye Plage with as little damage as in your pic. On the one occasion i managed to complete that one, i did it with 2 x 250lb bombs that caused far more destruction than that, as two aircraft exploded from direct hits which took the others with them. That took a minute or two though, it certainly didn't say they were destroyed just a the last bombs exploded.

On some occasions a single aircraft can get the L.5.3 target on its own, i just made three attempts, delivered 9 bombs on target and the objective remains.

Overall, we're both arguing similar points for red and blue, which must be an indication that the objectives are even, apart from the lack of flak in your pic showing the G7 target.

Hooves
Mar-18-2012, 23:32
OMG I lol'd at this thread. Yo know what would make those targets even harder than it is already? Protecting them with fighters, But Id hate to disturb blue's obsession with vulching.

Hilarious, You cant vulch us out of Littelstone as often, so you cry that we are actually hitting targets now.................you sir are unbelievable.

Mind you, you have more than 1 place to take off bombers, all Bliss did was even up the ground starts. There are still just as many of us Blen Drivers about. We didn't magically multiply, we were just able to get off the ground for once and make it across the channel.

Doc
Mar-18-2012, 23:33
In response to Hooves all the ATAG guys combined equal far less vulch totals than the number 1 vulcher alone. Not really a good comparison.

But guys you need to just switch it up for a week. All blues need to fly red bombers and reds to blue.

We need to know how to do it for the day will come where we will need to all be able to help each other out.

Come on guys!

:trigger

:hpyclp:

Wolf
Mar-19-2012, 00:16
What are your thoughts to changing the objectives a little to be like this:



Blue destroy 10 Red ships for mission complete
Red destroy 6 Blue ships for mission complete

Hooves
Mar-19-2012, 04:42
In response to Hooves all the ATAG guys combined equal far less vulch totals than the number 1 vulcher alone. Not really a good comparison.

But guys you need to just switch it up for a week. All blues need to fly red bombers and reds to blue.

We need to know how to do it for the day will come where we will need to all be able to help each other out.

Come on guys!

:trigger

:hpyclp:

I never said ATAG blues, I just said BLUES. I could give 2 craps who on blue is vulching. I just find it hilarious that now that reds can get off the ground. The cries go out that its not fair. LOL pathetic.

9./JG52 Hans Gruber
Mar-19-2012, 07:51
I have no issue with more or larger targets being added to the missions but more flak would be really really bad. If anything I would say the amount of flak needs to be greatly reduced as it is incredibly frustrating to do bomber sorties. I have flown equal parts JU88 & Blenheim and my survival rate is probably about 10% being a victim to flak everytime, never to fighters. I have done a half dozen sorties in a JU88 against the G7 armory target and 3 different times the port engine has been destroyed. Not destroyed as in knocked out, destroyed as in ripped totally from the airframe. Once at 3500m and always on my first pass over the target. However, in Blenheims my first pass over the target usually results in one of my control lines being lost or a pilot kill. Incredibly frustrating to fly for 30+ minutes to target and then get sniped by uber AI flak doing what human fighters should be doing.

How I believe the missions could be improved.
- Move targets clear of operational airfields.
- Light flak over targets to force the fighters to protect targets. There might some early pain as the mission gets flipped often but players will learn the need to defend the targets.
- Max flak over operational airfields to discourage vulching and make it a highly dangerous business.
- Place ground start Blenheim base at Rochester or Canterbury.
- Remove the AI flights or if possible make them only appear when the server has fewer than 10 players. As it is now there are too many players who just sit at 15k and wait for the AI to show up, never getting involved in the real mission. Many times I've been on TS and going out in a bomber requested fighter cover but the moment "JU-88's spotted east of Calais at 14k" appears off everybody goes. I understand why they were added to begin with but as we are starting to see more active human piloted bombers the AI flights have become counter-productive.
- Add a few targets the fighters could complete on their own. (i.e. small truck convoy going from A to B or even static).

Those are just a few thoughts of mine and if there are guys who only fly blue or red I urge you to try the other side for a week just to see what it's like. Both sides are equally fun and until you fly both you can't rightly participate in any form of discussions on mission balance.

Doc
Mar-19-2012, 08:20
I never said ATAG blues, I just said BLUES. I could give 2 craps who on blue is vulching. I just find it hilarious that now that reds can get off the ground. The cries go out that its not fair. LOL pathetic.

Noted. Thank you. :hpyclp:

Doc
Mar-19-2012, 08:21
What are your thoughts to changing the objectives a little to be like this:



Blue destroy 10 Red ships for mission complete
Red destroy 6 Blue ships for mission complete

I like sinking ships!! More is better! Since more and more new faces are showing up more objectives is good!!!

ATAG_Snapper
Mar-19-2012, 09:34
Hi everyone,

This is a good thread with some good thoughts & ideas coming through. I just want to remind everyone to keep all discussion at a respectful level to each other. Feel free to disagree and certainly say why you do. Please keep in mind how the manner you disagree will be perceived by the other person.

Thanks to you all and keep it rolling! :thumbsup:

Snapper

ATAG_Deacon
Mar-19-2012, 09:52
Remove the AI flights or if possible make them only appear when the server has fewer than 10 players. As it is now there are too many players who just sit at 15k and wait for the AI to show up, never getting involved in the real mission.

BTW, those initial flights of bombers that hit Lympne and Hawkinge happen to take out some of the AAA guns protecting the airfield, taking them out helps the mission. :thumbsup:

Additionally, for some of us there is no option at the moment. If I get low over the ships or a target area I get the dreaded launcher crash. If the airfield I spawn at is under attack my 'puter becomes a slideshow. I know there are others who have the same issue. :angry:

Hope the patch comes soon. Until then I will contribute to the best of my and my systems ability :hpyclp:

~S~ Deacon

Dutch
Mar-19-2012, 09:57
if there are guys who only fly blue or red I urge you to try the other side for a week just to see what it's like. Both sides are equally fun and until you fly both you can't rightly participate in any form of discussions on mission balance.

Very valid point here.

But.... I.......Just.......Can't!! :bgsmile:

ATAG_Knuckles
Mar-19-2012, 10:14
O.K. now let me say this ::::: ahhh ummmm hummm

never mind

Knuckles
who again is hiding under a rock

Slingn
Mar-19-2012, 10:35
I don't know about the flak, but the wall of 109's we put up around the ju 88 base sure put a damper on a few red bomb runs last night.


As far as the ships go. I'm in the more the merrier crowd too. Nothing like seeing ships go up in the low light of dawn. Maybe even add a second group, like one already at dock in a harbor or just moving in. And excuse my FMB noobness, but since we always seem to run into the unsinkable ship preventing the mission end trigger, is it possible to make it so a set % destroyed would trigger the completion?

Oh and one minor suggestion. I was watching bombers strike a target last night and they lined up to follow each other on their run. I was thinking it would be neat if the individual targets were a bit more spread out over the target area. Like say 2 groups of 88's on opposite ends of the base, each with their own destruction requirement. . Or two radio towers put 1/2 mile apart or so in g7. It would have been so cool to see them each dropping bombs simultaneously on separate targets in the same area, like they do on the ships at times. Not a big deal, just a random thought.


been having a blast, even with this "broken" game. Thanks again.

III./ZG76_Keller
Mar-19-2012, 11:00
OMG I lol'd at this thread. Yo know what would make those targets even harder than it is already? Protecting them with fighters, But Id hate to disturb blue's obsession with vulching.

Hilarious, You cant vulch us out of Littelstone as often, so you cry that we are actually hitting targets now.................you sir are unbelievable.

Mind you, you have more than 1 place to take off bombers, all Bliss did was even up the ground starts. There are still just as many of us Blen Drivers about. We didn't magically multiply, we were just able to get off the ground for once and make it across the channel.

Where to begin with this one.

Last night we had 4-6 fighters protecting the Ju-88 base at Oye-Plage as it was the last target remaining; Red was able to complete the objective. Maybe it was a well coordinated attack, maybe it was good timing? I wasn't on Red comms so I don't know. Either way they got it done, and good on them.

With regards to Blue bomber bases, we have one base for Ju-88's, one base for He-111 plus one air-start for He-111, 2 bases for Bf-110, and one base for Ju-87's. Most, if not all bombers fly out of one particular base that is a long way from the coast.

At this time very few people fly the He-111 due to it's messed up bombsight, and very few people fly the Ju-87. There are a handfull of Ju-88 pilots but there are rarely more than 2 or 3 flying at the same time. That leaves the Bf-110 as the primary bomber and even these do not get flown in great numbers.

Granted, the Luftwaffe does have many more options for delivering bombs but that was a decision made by the game developers based on the fact that it was primarily the Germans doing most of the bombing in the summer of 1940. It'd be nice if Red had the Beaufighter, but sadly they didn't make that a flyable aircraft.

There are some other things that affect Blue's ability to bomb targets, first off flying in formation with multi engine planes will cause a launcher crash; this applies to JU-88's, He-111's and Bf-110's. The other night I saw 3 Blenheims flying in formation with one fighter escort; this is not possible for Blue. We once attempted to fly 3 He-111's in formation and before the third plane was off the ground plane number two had already crashed to desktop and plane one's launcher crashed once plane three got in the air. In another situation, two Bf-110's and two 109's headed over to England together, with both the 109's launchers crashing before we were half way to the target.

Just so you understand, I don't care that Red successfully completes all their objectives. It's not like I'm losing money over this and it surely doesn't affect my ability to enjoy playing the game. What I am concerned with is the speed in which the mission can be completed and the fact that we have a serious drop off in population when the map rotation occurs. That's it, that's all.

Dutch
Mar-19-2012, 11:35
At this time very few people fly the He-111 due to it's messed up bombsight, and very few people fly the Ju-87. There are a handfull of Ju-88 pilots but there are rarely more than 2 or 3 flying at the same time. That leaves the Bf-110 as the primary bomber and even these do not get flown in great numbers.

I agree about the server rotation losing players, but there could be simple real issues going on there, such as food, drink, wife, kids etc, and map rotation time is a good time to go address those things when you know there are 6 hours to go in the new mission.

The bit about lack of bomber pilots is a concern though. I had a fantastic time defending Ramsgate in a Hurri the other night, when Borris, Doc, Fastfed and I think yourself were making a huge effort in some 88s/110s. That's how it should be IMO, with Red defending against manned bombers more than attacking AI formations or dogfighting 109s.

Sounds like we need to run a Blue Bomber recruitment drive somehow, and I know you've made a huge effort already with the Stuka school etc. Hmmm.....

ATAG_Knuckles
Mar-19-2012, 11:42
Just waiting on my new rudder pedals and I'm gonna help out with Blue

See ya need toe brakes with them thar german type plane (which is how i discovered my pedals were broke)

Doc
Mar-19-2012, 11:47
I just ordered my SIMPED-F16/USB

So Bliss you can contact Mr. Hoffman he's expecting your order lolol.

Had to get that plug in there.

Blue bomber guys need to fly red and red bomber guys to Blue. It will be a blast!!! LETS GO!!!!

III./ZG76_Keller
Mar-19-2012, 12:16
I agree about the server rotation losing players, but there could be simple real issues going on there, such as food, drink, wife, kids etc, and map rotation time is a good time to go address those things when you know there are 6 hours to go in the new mission.

The bit about lack of bomber pilots is a concern though. I had a fantastic time defending Ramsgate in a Hurri the other night, when Borris, Doc, Fastfed and I think yourself were making a huge effort in some 88s/110s. That's how it should be IMO, with Red defending against manned bombers more than attacking AI formations or dogfighting 109s.

Sounds like we need to run a Blue Bomber recruitment drive somehow, and I know you've made a huge effort already with the Stuka school etc. Hmmm.....

I see what you're saying about "real life" getting in the way, it's just unfortunate that the map change becomes an excuse to leave instead of players slowly dropping off as required.

I don't know what more we can do with regards to recruiting bomber pilots, the Stuka school idea really flopped. Hopefully if/when we get the new patch there will be a flood of people coming in; this might be the best time to really push the recruitment.

I really hope this thread doesn't make me sound like I'm whining, when Blue was having great success completing objectives I was asking for things to be more difficult.


A post from this thread: http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/showthread.php?1010-Server1-mission-objectives

Post #9 01-14-12 11:47




ATAG_Keller
Re: Server1 mission objectives



Sorry for the thread hijack, wasn't sure if this deserved its own.

Bliss, what are the chances of adding more objectives for both sides on the current mission? I've found that with an organized group of 3-4 pilots the objectives can be completed in just a couple sorties. We've had a running joke the last week or so of feigning anger towards the guy that completes the final objective and forces the mission to restart.

As it stands right now I can usually destroy the communications HQ with a single drop from a Stuka, and the radar stations take one large bomb for the towers, and a few 50kg bombs and some ground strafing to complete. It'd be cool to have say an airfield with several bombers spread out as well as buildings and fuel/ammo dumps to destroy. Having one big objective that requires multiple visits or multiple planes to complete might stretch out the mission a bit and provide some incentive for defending planes to loiter in the area.

I'm assuming that the vehicles in the buildings are there to be triggers because the buildings themselves are unable to trigger a completed objective. Where do fuel/ammo objects fit in to this? Are they considered buildings or are they objects that can have triggers attached to them?

Dutch
Mar-19-2012, 12:37
How about being brazen about it, and put up a thread on the main board at 1C? Wanted - Blue Bomber Pilots, explaining that the ATAG server attracts plenty of 109experten, but what we need in addition are etc, etc. Can't do any harm.

Edit: Just saw your edit! Don't worry, I know you're looking for fairness!

Doc
Mar-19-2012, 12:42
Where the heck is Jawzzy??? Haven't seen him on in a while he flew blue bombers a lot.

What frustrates me in some kind of order is:

Flyers not on comms. Or they are only another TS possibly. They are not part of this mission at all and or care less.
Next we have them on comms but not coordinating they just rove and call out contacts in random locations.
Next we have them on comms and kinda sorta coordinating but they end up over at mansgate looking for low hanging fruit. But they just want to say hello to everyone on comms and check in anyway.
The winner is having the one and only red objective left and someone new joins comms, checks in and ask what the mission status is then after being informed there is only one objective left they say oh cool...glad you got it under control...I will be at mansgate and see what I can get into. Hit me up if I can be of any assistance.

:bgsmile:


Snapper impressed me this weekend. I pulled another all night shift this weekend and flew red in the spit IIa (what a blast that thing is to fly - taunting 109's by not shooting just sticking to them forever) but later that afternoon someone got on red flight channel and started a conversation with him and he replied "busy" and that ended that. You see he didn't know that just 60 seconds before that Snapper called out that he was over the ships and had a bunch of 109's out there and he was alone. But when he was done moved the talker to another channel for their chat. Very impressive! :hpyclp:

III./ZG76_Keller
Mar-19-2012, 12:54
Where the heck is Jawzzy??? Haven't seen him on in a while he flew blue bombers a lot.

Jaws was on last night, I think he came in right after you left. It was the first time I'd seen him in weeks, let's hope he's back for a little while.

ATAG_Knuckles
Mar-19-2012, 13:08
Time to chirp in now
@ Keller: No I dont see you whinning at all. This whole "Mission" thing will always be a work in progress so I for one want to know what others like and dislike.

Now i always though blue had gaggles of bombers as i would always see anywhere from 4 to 6 people in the blue bomber channel. Was actually kinda jealous cause at the time I couldn't pay anyone to tackle the Blenheim. Its just lately that we have had bunches.

and none of us want easy targets, would be absolutely no fun. Personally I have NEVER triggered a target by my self, (I do know several have)

So all good info to me gang ! lets just keep plugging

III./ZG76_Keller
Mar-19-2012, 13:35
...Now i always though blue had gaggles of bombers as i would always see anywhere from 4 to 6 people in the blue bomber channel. Was actually kinda jealous cause at the time I couldn't pay anyone to tackle the Blenheim. Its just lately that we have had bunches...

The bomber channel is usually bombers + fighters that wish to escort.

Oops, I've said too much!

Doc
Mar-19-2012, 14:29
The bomber channel is usually bombers + fighters that wish to escort.

Oops, I've said too much!

:bgsmile:

Dutch
Mar-19-2012, 15:18
How about being brazen about it, and put up a thread on the main board at 1C?

Forget I said that Keller, the place is just ridiculous at the moment.

III./ZG76_Keller
Mar-19-2012, 17:49
Forget I said that Keller, the place is just ridiculous at the moment.

Yeah, I thought about posting on the 1C Forums, but do we really want some of the trolls on there flying ATAG?

ATAG_Knuckles
Mar-19-2012, 17:52
Yeah, I thought about posting on the 1C Forums, but do we really want some of the trolls on there flying ATAG?



hate to be stingy but good call there Keller !!!!

although i think we already have a few :hiding:

ATAG_Snapper
Mar-19-2012, 17:56
You guys make my job easy! :thumbsup:

MajorBorris
Mar-19-2012, 19:13
I have had similar experience with the flack as well Doc.:dazed:

It seems to get the 88 pretty good though as I am always limping back home untill those pesky fighters finaly find me but I like it to be hard.

Well at least we have a fight on our hands against red:thumbsup:




COOL PEDALS Doc!

MajorBorris
Mar-19-2012, 19:35
Regarding blue bomber recruits,if we look at the stats for bombing we can see the guys that bomb and arent in a squad yet and are on coms(familiar names) we should start with them?

I still plan on doing a video for the 88 and hope to have it out by this weekend rl permiting. Maybe Keller can do one for the 111 then we can start doing some training, after that we should see an increase in atag blue bomber recruits:thumbsup:. We can post the training on the yellow forum and invite them as they show interest in flying with us?

Ideas anyone?

ATAG_Knuckles
Mar-19-2012, 20:01
Borris I for one would love a video on the 88, Should be ready later this week

III./ZG76_Keller
Mar-19-2012, 23:50
Regarding blue bomber recruits,if we look at the stats for bombing we can see the guys that bomb and arent in a squad yet and are on coms(familiar names) we should start with them?

I still plan on doing a video for the 88 and hope to have it out by this weekend rl permiting. Maybe Keller can do one for the 111 then we can start doing some training, after that we should see an increase in atag blue bomber recruits:thumbsup:. We can post the training on the yellow forum and invite them as they show interest in flying with us?

Ideas anyone?

I'm considering doing this but my free copy of Fraps will only let me shoot 30 seconds of video at a time.

Uther
Mar-20-2012, 05:50
put up a thread on the main board at 1C? Can't do any harm
!

Hahahahahaha... :hpyclp: :hpyclp:

Back on topic.When i fly on the server, reds seem much more organised than blue, but thats probably historically accurate!

Dutch
Mar-20-2012, 07:19
I'm considering doing this but my free copy of Fraps will only let me shoot 30 seconds of video at a time.

You could use MSI Afterburner, it's a free download and includes a video capture feature. Last time I tried it, it wouldn't capture sound, but they were working on a beta for this which may be live by now. Worth a look if you don't want to buy Fraps.

@Uther, yes I realised the folly of my suggestion, see above! :Grin:

ATAG_Knuckles
Mar-20-2012, 08:41
I'm considering doing this but my free copy of Fraps will only let me shoot 30 seconds of video at a time.


should we make a special donation page so Keller can buy a copy of FRAPS

whats the price 25 Bucks !!!!!

III./ZG76_Keller
Mar-20-2012, 08:41
Hahahahahaha... :hpyclp: :hpyclp:

Back on topic.When i fly on the server, reds seem much more organised than blue, but thats probably historically accurate!

Agreed, there always seems to be twice the number of Reds on comms than there is on Blue.

Slingn
Mar-20-2012, 08:57
Bombing is fun. Think I've got the flying part down, so tonight (if they don't send me out of town) i might actually learn how to hit something with the bombs. Thanks for all the help in getting airborne.

Dutch
Mar-20-2012, 09:00
Agreed, there always seems to be twice the number of Reds on comms than there is on Blue.

Yeah, but don't be fooled by just numbers!

'There's a 109!'

'Where?'

'Over the Water!' :laugh1

ATAG_Snapper
Mar-20-2012, 09:52
Yeah, but don't be fooled by just numbers!

'There's a 109!'

'Where?'

'Over the Water!' :laugh1

:bgsmile::bgsmile::bgsmile:

ATAG_Deacon
Mar-20-2012, 09:59
'There's a 109!'

'Where?'

'Over the Water!'

Dutch,

It's more like:

'There's a 109!'

'Where?'

'Behind me, can anybody get him off?'


'Where'

'Behind me :eek:'

'WHERE :confused!:'

'Oh nevermind, I'm going in....':eek:

'UGH...:scream:

ATAG_Snapper
Mar-20-2012, 10:57
^ :hugesmiley: :FS:

III./ZG76_Keller
Mar-20-2012, 11:44
I'm considering doing this but my free copy of Fraps will only let me shoot 30 seconds of video at a time.


should we make a special donation page so Keller can buy a copy of FRAPS

whats the price 25 Bucks !!!!!

I think it's more like $50.

I appreciate the offer but that's not necessary, I'm just hesitant to get Fraps as I'm not sold on the notion that it's the best software out there for doing this sort of thing. I'm going to do more research and maybe attempt to do this with the in-game track recorder.

Tonka
Mar-20-2012, 12:40
+1 For MSI Afterburner. There is a beta now available that records sound too.

This is the only video i have made with it so far;

http://youtu.be/vUQzskhR5T4

Its easy to use though, worth a look if you don't want to buy Fraps.

III./ZG76_Keller
Mar-20-2012, 13:19
+1 For MSI Afterburner. There is a beta now available that records sound too.

This is the only video i have made with it so far;

http://youtu.be/vUQzskhR5T4

Its easy to use though, worth a look if you don't want to buy Fraps.

Does it require that you have an MSI card or ATI/AMD card?

Dutch
Mar-20-2012, 13:22
Does it require that you have an MSI card or ATI/AMD card?

No, not at all, mines a EVGA GTX570. Afterburner works fine. :thumbsup:

III./ZG76_Keller
Mar-20-2012, 13:29
No, not at all, mines a EVGA GTX570. Afterburner works fine. :thumbsup:

Awesome, I'll download and try it out tonight. Thanks for the info Dutch and Tonka.

Catseye
Mar-20-2012, 15:06
S! Gentlemen:
Very interesting thread.
As a recent convert to flying the Blenheim I find that most of the flight I'm paying attention to ensuring that the finicky stuff the Blennie throws at me is at a minimum.

I have only once made it back after a bombing mission. The flak is the issue for me. In my mind the fuel depot is a suicide mission because of it. Not having flown blue I can't draw a comparison although what I've read above makes me think it is just as bad over some UK targets.

My impression is that not all targets are treated equally when it comes to flak.
That there could be more flak inland on both sides to annoy pilots who take deep routes to targets and at least allow fighters to be aware of incoming from a different direction. (make it light but there if you pop up)

I would like to see targets much further inland as well. There is nothing like flying nap of the earth down river valleys, along RR tracks, behind hills to get to a deeper target. Some strategically light flack along common corridors might be interesting to both sides.

My suggestion is not to play around weighting the size or amount of targets because one side or the other has a different number of bombers being flown. This is artificial and can't control the variables each night. (how many bombers are being flown at a given time) I would rather see an equal set of targets with equal ground defences spread out over both maps and may the better team win at any point in time. More complexity to get to a target is good. Adding more flak to kill bombers that make it is not. Heck, the bombers still have to run the gauntlet to get home in one piece.

Good work guys overall - but please adjust with caution.

Regards,
Catseye

Biggus
Mar-24-2012, 10:19
I think there definitely needs to be a change made, but I'm not really sure of how you'd best go about it. I just closed out the map more or less solo. A couple of other Blens turned up sporadically, and I don't think they were hitting much. Took me roughly 7 sorties to hit the targets, and would have taken less if I'd been better at hitting ground targets instead of ships.

I think intensifying the flak around the red targets isn't the right way to go about remedying the situation. The only thing that will change (in my limited experience) is that bombers will get shot down post-bombing run, but those targets will still be hit just as they have been up until now. I don't know about you guys, but flak will kill me about 10% whilst running in, and about 40% after I've dropped my load and am bugging out. Perhaps the best thing to do is to have shipping targets that spawn in random locations. That'd make it worth taking off with more than 15% of my fuel load, because I'd actively need to seek out those boats. That would take up a fair bit of time, and make it exponentially harder for Red to win.

Tonight, I made three runs at the last target. On the first, I missed my target and was killed by the flak. The second, I was shot down by notafinger, and on the last, flak killed me immediately after I dropped the bombs. I actually died before the bombs went off and completed the objective. The flak as it stands right now is extremely effective. If you're looking as more flak as being an option, I'd suggest that you could put a couple of those sniper-like minelaying boats along the French coast, but I certainly wouldn't encourage more flak around targets.

What isn't very effective is the Blue defence of the single remaining target. One Luftwaffe fighter I encountered on three sorties. One. There must have been at least 10 on the server at the time. So unless you can give those guys an incentive that is better than simply not losing the map, not much will change.

III./ZG76_Keller
Mar-24-2012, 11:46
I think there definitely needs to be a change made, but I'm not really sure of how you'd best go about it. I just closed out the map more or less solo. A couple of other Blens turned up sporadically, and I don't think they were hitting much. Took me roughly 7 sorties to hit the targets, and would have taken less if I'd been better at hitting ground targets instead of ships.

I think intensifying the flak around the red targets isn't the right way to go about remedying the situation. The only thing that will change (in my limited experience) is that bombers will get shot down post-bombing run, but those targets will still be hit just as they have been up until now. I don't know about you guys, but flak will kill me about 10% whilst running in, and about 40% after I've dropped my load and am bugging out. Perhaps the best thing to do is to have shipping targets that spawn in random locations. That'd make it worth taking off with more than 15% of my fuel load, because I'd actively need to seek out those boats. That would take up a fair bit of time, and make it exponentially harder for Red to win.

Tonight, I made three runs at the last target. On the first, I missed my target and was killed by the flak. The second, I was shot down by notafinger, and on the last, flak killed me immediately after I dropped the bombs. I actually died before the bombs went off and completed the objective. The flak as it stands right now is extremely effective. If you're looking as more flak as being an option, I'd suggest that you could put a couple of those sniper-like minelaying boats along the French coast, but I certainly wouldn't encourage more flak around targets.

What isn't very effective is the Blue defence of the single remaining target. One Luftwaffe fighter I encountered on three sorties. One. There must have been at least 10 on the server at the time. So unless you can give those guys an incentive that is better than simply not losing the map, not much will change.

All good points Biggus.

With regards to the fighter defense of the targets, I think it's safe to say that a good portion of the people flying on the server have no interest in either bombing or defending targets. If there are 24 people flying on a side, and only 10 of them are on Teamspeak, I think it's fair to say that the majority that aren't on TS aren't putting the missions objectives high on their list of priorities.

ATAG_Knuckles
Mar-24-2012, 12:14
All good points Biggus.

With regards to the fighter defense of the targets, I think it's safe to say that a good portion of the people flying on the server have no interest in either bombing or defending targets. If there are 24 people flying on a side, and only 10 of them are on Teamspeak, I think it's fair to say that the majority that aren't on TS aren't putting the missions objectives high on their list of priorities.

Be interesting to see what would happen is T/S was a requirement to log into the server. ????? and interning you would have to choose an objective and not just fly around looking for something to kill ??

9./JG52 Hans Gruber
Mar-24-2012, 23:50
Nice work today Biggus. I was waiting for you to come back but I took some damage and was limping back across the channel when you knocked out the final target. It's too bad you don't get to return home often from successful bomb runs like that due to flak. I very much wish it wasn't that way. Fighters should be protecting the targets with the flak indicating when an enemy is present, not as the primary means of defense.

Actually, if you think about it, the flak is probably causing the targets to get hit twice as often. It doesn't often prevent the bomber from dropping their payload but will usually force them down shortly after. That just puts the player in a new bomber and back over the target in half the time as they rarely have the chance to return to base.

I still believe the AI flights are causing too much of a distraction to the fighters. Their arrival announced in huge letters in the middle of the screen, their flight path, target, and altitude always the same is just too juicy for most of the fighters to resist. Their own targets being destroyed while they chase AI bombers that do no harm. Tonight I was flying red while blue was mauling our convoy in the channel with 12+ guys on TS but only a handful of red over the convoys. Those of us who attempted to defend the convoy are fighting for our lives against 109's while 110's wipe out the fleet yet I see in the server window AI JU-88's going down to some skilled pilots who could have been of great help defending the convoy.

Doc
Mar-25-2012, 00:19
I hope we don't remove the AI bombers because they are liked by a lot of people plus when no one is on you have something to do.

There are people in here that don't want to mix it up with you brutes because it can be intimidating.

Just today someone (who will remain nameless) had setup a "shoot down Doc's Blen at all cost taskforce" on blue flight channel 2. They even offered cash bounties for shooting me down in general chat. That can be rather intimidating for new people!!

I am all for allowing anyone at any level find their spot on the server.

Some day when this sim is fixed and squads are busting at the seams with members we all will be able to have closed server matches now and then and everyone will have a job to do and no AI will be in the way.

:xwing

III./ZG76_Keller
Mar-25-2012, 00:50
...Just today someone (who will remain nameless) had setup a "shoot down Doc's Blen at all cost taskforce" on blue flight channel 2. They even offered cash bounties for shooting me down in general chat...

Someone offered a hundred Reichsmarks to shoot you down? Who would do such a thing???

On a side note, look what I didn't have to give away today! :Grin:

580

Doc
Mar-25-2012, 00:53
:hugesmiley:

I have to admit that I felt like rudolph hess when he defected!! :bgsmile:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/18/Rudolf_Hess_-_Bf_110D_Werk_Nr_3869_-_Wreckage_-_Bonnyton_Moor.jpg

MajorBorris
Mar-26-2012, 13:23
S! Gentlemen:
Very interesting thread.
As a recent convert to flying the Blenheim I find that most of the flight I'm paying attention to ensuring that the finicky stuff the Blennie throws at me is at a minimum.

I have only once made it back after a bombing mission. The flak is the issue for me. In my mind the fuel depot is a suicide mission because of it. Not having flown blue I can't draw a comparison although what I've read above makes me think it is just as bad over some UK targets.

My impression is that not all targets are treated equally when it comes to flak.
That there could be more flak inland on both sides to annoy pilots who take deep routes to targets and at least allow fighters to be aware of incoming from a different direction. (make it light but there if you pop up)

I would like to see targets much further inland as well. There is nothing like flying nap of the earth down river valleys, along RR tracks, behind hills to get to a deeper target. Some strategically light flack along common corridors might be interesting to both sides.

My suggestion is not to play around weighting the size or amount of targets because one side or the other has a different number of bombers being flown. This is artificial and can't control the variables each night. (how many bombers are being flown at a given time) I would rather see an equal set of targets with equal ground defences spread out over both maps and may the better team win at any point in time. More complexity to get to a target is good. Adding more flak to kill bombers that make it is not. Heck, the bombers still have to run the gauntlet to get home in one piece.

Good work guys overall - but please adjust with caution.

Regards,
Catseye

The objectives are kind of suicide if attacked alone. When there are a couple fighters and another bomber not so much in my experience. In fact the main target for blue the Armory must have at least 7 flak groups that are deadly...but if it wasnt dangerous it might not be as fun!;)

as a side note: as far as tactics I try and attack the AAA first.

ATAG_Bliss
Mar-26-2012, 19:46
Trust me, I'm trying to absorb all of this. Wolf has come up with a pretty cool script that will make bombers worth something / an objective. With that said it'll be a little bit before I can manage to change it all. Very time consuming stuff :angry:

ATAG_Knuckles
Mar-26-2012, 20:05
Trust me, I'm trying to absorb all of this. Wolf has come up with a pretty cool script that will make bombers worth something / an objective. With that said it'll be a little bit before I can manage to change it all. Very time consuming stuff :angry:

Oh O.K. so Keller's gonna start earning points when he shoots me down ?

Cool !!!!!! I think???:runaway:

ATAG_Bliss
Mar-26-2012, 20:38
No no no :)

I'm talking about the AI groups that people get messages to protect / destroy. It's good fun getting into a high alt tangle with a whole group of planes :thumbsup:

ATAG_Septic
Mar-26-2012, 20:46
Trust me, I'm trying to absorb all of this. Wolf has come up with a pretty cool script that will make bombers worth something / an objective. With that said it'll be a little bit before I can manage to change it all. Very time consuming stuff :angry:

This sounds very interesting, it could create all sorts of fun, and maybe take some of the heat off us bomber pilots too!

Wish I could help with the coding :-(

Septic.

III./ZG76_Keller
Mar-26-2012, 22:38
Don't worry Knuckles, if I start getting points for AI bombers it still won't be enough incentive to leave you alone. :Grin:

9./JG52 Hans Gruber
Mar-26-2012, 23:23
If the AI flights are here to stay it would be nice to see some randomness with them. Different altitudes, flight paths, targets, formation size, etc. Not sure if that is possible at the moment but a low level DO-17 attack on Manston would be pretty cool and would probably get a good fight going.

ATAG_Knuckles
Mar-27-2012, 09:33
Don't worry Knuckles, if I start getting points for AI bombers it still won't be enough incentive to leave you alone. :Grin:


:hiding:

Wolf
Mar-28-2012, 04:29
:hiding:

As it so happens I have just completed a new ATAG mission for the Server that has low attacks, grouped objectives, moving objectives, points for every object in the game and lots more.

I am uploading to Test server tonight for testing so hope to see something in the main server soon or intime for the new patch.

ATAG_Deacon
Mar-28-2012, 05:29
intime for the new patch.


So about two weeks, right? :angrymob:



Sorry, I could....not.....resist....:hiding:

Dutch
Mar-28-2012, 09:10
As it so happens I have just completed a new ATAG mission for the Server that has low attacks, grouped objectives, moving objectives, points for every object in the game and lots more.

I am uploading to Test server tonight for testing so hope to see something in the main server soon or intime for the new patch.

That sounds fantastic mate. As you're in Australia, do you mean tonight as in now, or tonight as in well, tonight? On server 2?

Cheers!

Doc
Mar-28-2012, 09:49
Sweet!

MajorBorris
Mar-28-2012, 13:44
As it so happens I have just completed a new ATAG mission for the Server that has low attacks, grouped objectives, moving objectives, points for every object in the game and lots more.

I am uploading to Test server tonight for testing so hope to see something in the main server soon or intime for the new patch.

Thanks Wolf! :hpyclp:

ATAG_Bliss
Mar-28-2012, 15:07
As it so happens I have just completed a new ATAG mission for the Server that has low attacks, grouped objectives, moving objectives, points for every object in the game and lots more.

I am uploading to Test server tonight for testing so hope to see something in the main server soon or intime for the new patch.

Sweet :)

Gonna work on some testing right now.

The code, omg the code :shocked:..

I thought it was complex before :) Looks like I'll get to do some more learning!

Sounds great Wolf - Thanks for your hard work. :thumbsup:

9./JG52 Lopp
Mar-28-2012, 15:24
Thank you, Wolf:salute:

Dutch
Mar-28-2012, 19:12
I am uploading to Test server tonight for testing so hope to see something in the main server soon or intime for the new patch.


Hopped onto server 2 earlier for a look around in a Spit MkIIa (yay!).

No-one else there but me.

I flew down to Canterbury from Manston and saw the 'factory complex' with a convoy of vehicles which hadn't started moving as far as I could see. Also noticed a railway junction somewhere near Manston that I don't recall having seen before. Saw some friendly Blennies heading inland at fairly low alt, (thought they were the Hun until I saw the roundels!) Didn't see anything to shoot down, but looks very promising!

What are the chances of us getting organised and giving this a workout then?

ATAG_Knuckles
Mar-28-2012, 19:33
Yeah what he said :thumbsup: