View Full Version : Battle of Stalingrad copies War Thunder gameplay
http://bobgamehub.blogspot.fr/
Good news for War Thunder fans who want to try a more challenging flight game with similar gameplay elements - the new Battle of Stalingrad flight game will feature many of the same gameplay elements that players have come to enjoy from War Thunder!
In fact it is downright copying the tech tree and weapons upgrade elements of War Thunder. Which means you will get a more authentic flight experience, but still with helpful graphic icons and help features such as aiming assist or cockpit free views, and War Thunder like gameplay.
Niiiiice.
For full details see the post below, copied with permission from SimHQ.
Tech tree
At launch the game will be sold in two versions either Standard (8 planes) or Premium (10 planes) but you won't have to wait too long before the developers 1C/777 release a FREE version with 2 planes.:satisfied: (FREE version with 2 planes thank you)
In the FREE version you will need to earn XP to move up the tech tree and earn new planes. So you start the game on the German side in a Bf109F, and following this single-engined plane tree you can earn the Ju87 dive bomber and then the awesome Bf109 Gustav.
Weapon and armour upgrades
Along the way, your XP will also unlock different 'field weapons mods' for each aircraft such as 30mm cannon pods instead of the default 20mm, and armour plate for the back of your pilot seat to help you avoid those instant pilot kills. These 'field mods' are actually historical, and were used by some units in the field on the Eastern front. You can also earn beautiful unique skins for your favourite machine.
Once you have unlocked these mods, you are entitled to use them online.
Of course you have to choose carefully what you equip: if you go into online multiplay for a dogfight mission with the Bf109 with 30mm cannon pods, it will have a slower rate of fire and shorter range than the 20mm. But then you will be able to take out your opponent with a single hit. Get in close before you fire! KABOOM! And tanks will of course be easy meat.
http://i39.servimg.com/u/f39/18/08/15/97/123.jpg (http://servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=516&u=18081597)
Battle of Stalingrad copies War Thunder gameplay roflmao
RAF74_Buzzsaw
Oct-03-2014, 16:11
From my perspective, any Flight Simmer, (gamer) is a good simmer... doesn't matter where they start. :thumbsup:
We get lots of people from War Thunder joining the CoD community when they get bored with that game.
It's all good. ;)
LBR=H.Ostermann
Oct-03-2014, 16:16
S!
:stunned:
:-P
Continu0
Oct-03-2014, 17:41
I really think there is something absolutely wrong in this article: You most probably will not be able to earn whole new planes trough collected XP...
ChiefRedCloud
Oct-03-2014, 18:10
Battle of Stalingrad copies War Thunder gameplay!
Good news for War Thunder fans who want to try a more challenging flight game with similar gameplay elements - the new Battle of Stalingrad flight game will feature many of the same gameplay elements that players have come to enjoy from War Thunder!
In fact it is downright copying the tech tree and weapons upgrade elements of War Thunder. Which means you will get a more authentic flight experience, but still with helpful graphic icons and help features such as aiming assist or cockpit free views, and War Thunder like gameplay.
Niiiiice.
For full details see the post below, copied with permission from SimHQ.
Tech tree
At launch the game will be sold in two versions either Standard (8 planes) or Premium (10 planes) but you won't have to wait too long before the developers 1C/777 release a FREE version with 2 planes.
In the FREE version you will need to earn XP to move up the tech tree and earn new planes. So you start the game on the German side in a Bf109F, and following this single-engined plane tree you can earn the Ju87 dive bomber and then the awesome Bf109 Gustav.
Weapon and armour upgrades
Along the way, your XP will also unlock different 'field weapons mods' for each aircraft such as 30mm cannon pods instead of the default 20mm, and armour plate for the back of your pilot seat to help you avoid those instant pilot kills. These 'field mods' are actually historical, and were used by some units in the field on the Eastern front. You can also earn beautiful unique skins for your favourite machine.
Once you have unlocked these mods, you are entitled to use them online.
Of course you have to choose carefully what you equip: if you go into online multiplay for a dogfight mission with the Bf109 with 30mm cannon pods, it will have a slower rate of fire and shorter range than the 20mm. But then you will be able to take out your opponent with a single hit. Get in close before you fire! KABOOM! And tanks will of course be easy meat.
Short and long missions
The game comes with short (15-30 minute) or long (up to 1 hour) missions. So if you just want a quick frag as in WT you can, but if you want to fly a machine from takeoff to landing for the full mission you can do that too!
Normal and Expert modes
Like WT there are different gameplay modes. If you play Normal mode, you have slightly simplified flight controls, aiming guides, icons labelling friend and foe and targets, and different views such as external, over the shoulder, and no-cockpit.
In Expert mode you have only cockpit view, no icons or GUI help, and you have to manage the aircraft controls and engine settings as in real life, adjusting propeller pitch, radiator settings, fuel mixture, trim etc etc.
What's not like War Thunder?
Needing to use XP/coin to repair your plane. There is no 'repair' element in the BoS gameplay, so players who don't like the way this sucks away your coin in War Thunder will enjoy the fact you can blow up your plane in one mission, and get straight into a nice shiny new one for the next mission!
Also there are not as many aircraft options on the tech tree. There are 10 aircraft in total at the moment. But the difference is each has an authentically modelled flight model and they are each very different to fly, according to their historical characteristics. If you are familiar with the simple flight models in War Thunder and ready for something more challenging, BoS seems like a good option.
Here is the full run down.
Battle of Stalingrad gameplay: SimHQ post by Heinkill
- The BoS single player game will feature five historical phases of the Battle for Stalingrad: 1) Days before counteroffensive 2) Uranus 3) Air bridge 4)Wintergewitter 5) The ring of death
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As taken from the site ..... I couldn't read the picture ...... I guess I could let my feathers be ruffled but why? We all have opinions and IF I end up enjoying BoS as I know I did not enjoy WT, then what the heck. WT, unless it has changed, was not even easy to set up. +10 for BoS. So selave and to each their own ..... IF you like WT and or BoS or what ever, more power to you if not ...... you have a wide selection of games you can play out there ...... Just not good flight sims like Cliffs of Dover ..... Too Few ..
Chief
Since the article are addressed for WT fans, what's wrong?
This (future) "FREE" version (a DEMO?) with only two planes available, to attract the "WT crowd" need offer what these people enjoy: FREE, XP, Unlocks... not wrong with this.
Enjoy? Buy the full version. :thumbsup:
Only the "earn new planes" seems xtrange, what the point in give all game contend for FREE?
EDIT - Anyway 777 denied this FREE version.
http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/4017711/Re:_Poll:_What_do_you_think_of#Post4017711
Sokol1
SorcererDave
Oct-03-2014, 22:45
I hate to take the role of the pessimist here, but having played War Thunder for around 2 years before coming here, the problem as I see it is that making a game free-to-play always, without exception, tends to drag the community downhill. War Thunder has an absolutely horrific community of frankly awful players, and it's really because any schmuck with a mouse, keyboard and internet connection can download the game and start teamkilling and yelling obscenities at people. I came to games like CloD, DCS and BoS to escape that.
It's my hope that the additional barrier to entry in the form of having to buy peripherals like a joystick, and having to learn how to fly an aircraft from the cockpit will filter out the prospective arseholes, but only time will tell I suppose.
LuseKofte
Oct-04-2014, 10:56
In general I hate arrogance, and the arrogance that hit cod when it was published are now thrown back at Bos.
To tell you the truth , I find life as a Bomber pilot more challenged in bos than here. the autopilot is much harder to adjust and despite the "simplified" bomb aim LOFTE it needs much better planning to get it right.
I have never flown war thunder , I came from hard core IL 2 modding to cod. Are you suggesting I am going to the "pesent" by spending time with BOS.
You might think so, but the funny thing is, it is actually many of us able to enjoy cod, bos and DCS at the same time.
I am just a little tired being told I am stupid for liking BOS
Chuck_Owl
Oct-04-2014, 11:14
Aaaaaand Eagle's Nest server is shut down. The biggest server in North America is no more. This debate on unlocks is taking a turn for the worst.
THANK YOU, 777. :grrr:
Continu0
Oct-04-2014, 11:27
I am just a little tired being told I am stupid for liking BOS
who said such a thing? I think many are disappointed, but I am happy for those who can enjoy BoS...
Aaaaaand Eagle's Nest server is shut down. The biggest server in North America is no more. This debate on unlocks is taking a turn for the worst.
THANK YOU, 777. :grrr:
Very sad news, and heck I currently am not even doing multiplayer - but I know it was one of the most popular servers. I had the best pings to it, and from what all I have read if I decided to get into multiplayer, it would have been with that server...
Does not bode well for BOS.
Kai Lae
Oct-04-2014, 11:57
Reading between the lines, it sounds like the admins for the server said some negative things about 777's unlock plan (which has sorta borked multiplayer) and forced them to shut it down. This is a big deal, because there were only 2 good servers - this one and syndicate, and syndicate is frequently full (and now it will be worse). It'd be like if ATAG was constantly full and there was enough population to have a second ATAG. Really interested on what happened.
If that is the case, I find that very troubling... that unlock plan just plain sucks for the multiplayer guys especially ( again I do not fly MP). And they have to know it, based on all the opinions that have already been expressed on it over on their own forums.
LuseKofte
Oct-04-2014, 14:01
I guess the unlocks wont affect me that much, all tho I hate the very idea of not getting historical items and ordinance and have to "play" for it make me sick. To me I prefer offline gaming. AI how stupid they might be, behave more realistic than online players.
But time will tell, this might be their biggest mistake to date
ATAG_Bliss
Oct-04-2014, 14:15
Aaaaaand Eagle's Nest server is shut down. The biggest server in North America is no more. This debate on unlocks is taking a turn for the worst.
THANK YOU, 777. :grrr:
Judging by past dealings with how Jason deals with criticism, I would say they were given an ultimatum to essentially shut up or they won't have server access anymore. It seems like they decided they weren't going to tow that line anymore. Same thing happened to many beta testers in ROF that gave constructive criticism. What's better is when they start pulling server keys because of criticism. This is just one more reason why the real IL2 titles are just so much better. You can't be controlled on how you want to fly or be at the mercy of them to even have a server. I don't blame em one bit.
gavagai
Oct-04-2014, 14:20
Link for that? They took away server keys because why? That is just crazy if it is true.
ATAG_Bliss
Oct-04-2014, 14:28
Link for that? They took away server keys because why? That is just crazy if it is true.
I don't know for sure, but it's just a guess because the Eagle Nest people were complaining about the unlock stuff pretty hard core, then next thing you know they say because of their opinions/expression they are shutting down the server. It's on their server thread.
This is the same thing that happened to many beta testers for ROF who gave critical constructive criticism and were asked to tow the party line or leave. I was one that chose to leave. Obviously you're not doing your job as a beta tester if you just wear blinders, and I, along with many others, couldn't do that.
ATAG_Dave
Oct-04-2014, 15:22
I agree with the general sentiments above that all sims / simmers is all good - variety is the spice and all that and anything that gets people interested in this fun hobby is fine by me. I started out in War Thunder before coming here - I honestly dont think i would be playing clod now if it hadnt been for the much maligned WT.
I remember when WT introduced the whole upgrade your existing plane thing - it went down like a lead balloon and understandably so- you basically started with a clapped out version of whatever plane you were flying and gradually you earnt the right to bring it to full specification - the grind was no fun and IMO counter productive given one of their 'selling points' was the huge variety in aircraft available - why then make it a tedious chore to get access to them?? Oh yes I remember - you could always short cut it by buying premium fully specced planes - - free to play eh??? ;).
Sadly SorcererDave is bang on right about the community there - its the polar opposite of the community we enjoy here. I guess thats the price you pay for things that are 'free'....no free lunches and all that.
Anyway I have never played BOS - Im sure ill give it a whirl at some point in the future as I will DCS, but I still have a lot to learn here and the plane set / historical context for clod matches my preference spot on, so good luck to all these other games but for me - long live Clod. :thumbsup:
ATAG_Bliss
Oct-04-2014, 15:34
Link for that? They took away server keys because why? That is just crazy if it is true.
Looks like they 777 was paying for the server and decided to take it away after the criticism. You can't make this stuff up.
http://i.imgur.com/LIvqz70.png
Yeah I saw that, man that really sucks.
Look what those guys ( Hooves, Aborted Man, Chuck Owl) have done for BOS over the past several months.
Seriously, that is just way wrong;. I think I am done with BOS. Yeah they got my money so no big deal for them I guess.
What a bunch of &^^%$
Thank goodness for TF and Cliffs of Dover.
Is that the same guy that was banned from here? If so, lol.
Thing is with the devs, they don't care how much of a fan you have been in the past if you start criticising...
Is that the same guy that was banned from here? If so, lol.
Thing is with the devs, they don't care how much of a fan you have been in the past if you start criticising...
No I don't think so, those are really good guys.
LuseKofte
Oct-04-2014, 16:04
A I unlocked all planes by doing a simple tutorial. big deal. I give up this section
Chuck_Owl
Oct-04-2014, 16:06
Yeah I saw that, man that really sucks.
Look what those guys ( Hooves, Aborted Man, Chuck Owl) have done for BOS over the past several months.
Seriously, that is just way wrong;. I think I am done with BOS. Yeah they got my money so no big deal for them I guess.
What a bunch of &^^%$
Thank goodness for TF and Cliffs of Dover.
I find it quite disheartening as well, Burnette.
At least we're all among friends here. :thumbsup:
A I unlocked all planes by doing a simple tutorial. big deal. I give up this section
So we're not friends anymore? Now I'm sad... :ind:
The problem is not with unlocking "planes" (they are all available anyway). It's the fact that we have to grind through a SP campaign to unlock basic features as "blister turret", "23 mm guns" or "armored headrest" or "250 kg bombs" even for multiplayer that is infuriating.
There's just so much bull*BLEEP* I can put up with before I decide I've had enough.
LuseKofte
Oct-04-2014, 16:34
Personally I hate the very idea, This is a stupid childish prank they set up towards grown up men . For my sake I will spin thru the SP because I well like SP.
But I hope it turns into something more interesting than what I have done the last 10 minutes.
I desperately need a brake from clod, and I thought I had it last week. I was quite satisfied. But this, is plane stupid. We will see, the way WW2 combat sims evolve. Or the lack of such. I don't think I be flying for too much longer. COD is just not enough to keep my interest much longer. I was hoping these two would.
Only time will tell
gavagai
Oct-04-2014, 16:35
Ok, so this is what I gather:
DServer access is limited right now, i.e. you can't have a DServer just because you want to pay for one
777 was paying for this player-run DServer
777 stopped funding it and took away the keys, so the players cannot continue the DServer even if they pay for it themselves
Forgive the sexism, but it almost seems like 777 is run by a woman. Very thin skin combined with petty retribution is never pretty.
ATAG_Bliss
Oct-04-2014, 16:41
Ok, so this is what I gather:
DServer access is limited right now, i.e. you can't have a DServer just because you want to pay for one
777 was paying for this player-run DServer
777 stopped funding it and took away the keys, so the players cannot continue the DServer even if they pay for it themselves
Forgive the sexism, but it almost seems like 777 is run by a woman. Very thin skin combined with petty retribution is never pretty.
I was banned on the BoS forum for saying essentially my 1st reply to you in this thread on that forum. It seems like that's how they handle business, but just pointing it out is a bannable offense. It's all quite funny and sad at the same time.
I'll copy what I said in the other thread
" I did uninstall it without backing up controls as posted. Once I got it downloaded and found out I had to grind to get to MP I didn't bother to set up my controls and removed it from my Hard drive. I have issues with some in 777 management anyway. They got my 95 bucks, I take it as I "rented" the alpha/beta game for a year for that money. When I voiced my opinion I got a PM to "be nice" Basically STFU as I took it. So I did. Done with that warthunder type of game. Too bad it could have been a good mid level flight sim, not to hard but not arcade mmo either."
Sad, and following the dev log is entertaining now. the BOS police are all over it. I think we will see the first dev log locked here soon.
LuseKofte
Oct-04-2014, 17:24
I really enjoyed Syndicate server all last week, as fun and as demanding as cod, nothing like arcade at all, so that is a direct lie. But this unlock system is bullshit, I agree. But 90 % here are colored by everything else than the way it flies.
Right now I guess I am being banned in BOS forum, and If I said my real opinion here I will be banned here too. Because in this section no one are safe.
So I am in the middle of nothing.
Anyone want to buy a excellent flightsim gear kit?
heinkill
Oct-04-2014, 17:44
EDIT - Anyway 777 denied this FREE version.
http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/4017711/Re:_Poll:_What_do_you_think_of#Post4017711
Sokol1
Loved the tone of that post. 'Change your post Heinkill...'
The guy is a total 'fill in blank here'. I have told him I will correct the post when he clarifies what the version with two planes only, which Loft disclosed, will cost.
Rise of Flight version with two planes is free, so...
"Welcome to the Free2Play version of Rise of Flight! This version of Rise of Flight can be played for an unlimited time and features two flyable aircraft with full access to all their features" sounds familiar....
BTW that blog is now run by a War Thunder fan. Nice Irish guy. He agreed to keep my old download links and content there for a year.
Chuck_Owl
Oct-04-2014, 17:49
I really enjoyed Syndicate server all last week, as fun and as demanding as cod, nothing like arcade at all, so that is a direct lie. But this unlock system is bullshit, I agree. But 90 % here are colored by everything else than the way it flies.
Right now I guess I am being banned in BOS forum, and If I said my real opinion here I will be banned here too. Because in this section no one are safe.
So I am in the middle of nothing.
Anyone want to buy a excellent flightsim gear kit?
DUDE! We still love ya, mate... what are you sayin'? Why on earth would you get banned here?
C'm'ere... https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/4183829504/hCAAA8888/
The arrogance that has been displayed over on their forums today has been amazing, and totally turned me off.
I am very disappointed , and regret ever buying into their Early Access...
Dude why would you be banned here? I bet this is one of if not the only safe forums. Give Chuck a hug and I'll get you a beer and no worries!
Yeah you are fine here Luse, stick around - what a great group there is here.
Heck, I so love TF Modded Cliffs, and I still have all those DCS Modules I bought I have not even begun to delve into yet.
Lots of great flight simming fun to be had!!
Yeah you are fine here Luse, stick around - what a great group there is here.
Heck, I so love TF Modded Cliffs, and I still have all those DCS Modules I bought I have not even begun to delve into yet.
Lots of great flight simming fun to be had!!
DB, I'm going to shorten it and call it TFcliffs instead of Clod, COD ect. Thanks for the idea!:salute:
I have the DCS P-51 and FW190 and have only started to look at them. I still have a lot to go over and explore in TFcliffs first.
LuseKofte
Oct-04-2014, 18:41
Well as much as I hate this crappy unlock system, it took me less than a hour and much of it with autopilot to unlock most essential things.
So when you look at it in a distance it is not really a bother at all. But then I ask myself, when it is soooooo easy why bother at all.
wtf is going on, why ?
Why are you so burned out with CoD LuseKofte? I had a prolonged break due to illness and am having great fun flying it again.
Not sure if you are still in a squad but if not you should try the ACG campaign, which before too long will feature a 110 staffel ;)
Yeah, I have pretty much all the DCS Modules, have only started learning the A-10C, have gotten basic flight and nav down, need to learn the weapons systems now.
gavagai
Oct-04-2014, 19:02
If I said my real opinion here I will be banned here too. Because in this section no one are safe.
So I am in the middle of nothing.
The point of a forum like this one is that no one will get banned if what they say is backed up by reasonable argument and facts, no matter how unpopular their opinion.
Chuck_Owl
Oct-04-2014, 19:10
If you guys are starting on DCS... there are guides for the P-51 and FW190 here http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12399 and here http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12426
danperin
Oct-04-2014, 19:13
Come here, Luse... 11952
And don't you dare to discard that fantastic gear i saw in one of your posts: ( http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4645&page=5 )
Chuck you did it again. You had some great info for BOS in a PDF format and here too? Geez I think I need to hug you too.
If you guys are starting on DCS... there are guides for the P-51 and FW190 here http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12399 and here http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12426
Awesome, thanks for those and the heads up!!
ATAG_((dB))
Oct-04-2014, 20:23
I desperately need a brake from clod, and I thought I had it last week. I was quite satisfied. But this, is plane stupid. We will see, the way WW2 combat sims evolve. Or the lack of such. I don't think I be flying for too much longer. COD is just not enough to keep my interest much longer. I was hoping these two would.
Only time will tell
One word LuseKofte..Wellington :P CMON man
LuseKofte
Oct-04-2014, 21:16
Yeah I know, but this has been a thing for me since 1996, and a hobby since 2002, it kind of hit me today I might find a new one. WW2 combat sims was back in the days very good and had a huge community. Now there aint many left and the few there is are mostly at war against each other.
It does not bring big hopes
I have told him I will correct the post when he clarifies what the version with two planes only, which Loft disclosed, will cost.
My 0,02$ on this.
Although people praise this Dev Team as the best communicative in CFS (now CFG) development - what is true, specially if compared with a certain dismissed Team... :D - one can say that despite well "comunicative" they are somewhat poorly "informative".
What Loft faill in say in that video is: This plane unlock three dont apply to founders buyers - they have all planes available to start play in Campaing or in Multiplayer, they only need unlock weapons upgrades and skins - this simple phrase will avoid a bit of complaim, discussion, "fanboy wars"... in theyr forum in the the following week.
The plane unlock three is for those who purchase the game after the release.
Bf 109-F unlock Bf 109-G and Stuka that unlock He 111.
LaGG-3 unlock Yak-1 and Sturmovik that unlock Pe-2.
So - those buying after release - will have available to start the Campaing two planes and will need unlock six planes case buy the Standart Edition, if buy Premium Ediditon will have at start Bf 109-F, LaGG-3 plus La5 and Fw190 and too will need unlock other six planes.
So we can conclude that the cost of "two free planes" (free for play, not for get it) is... 59,95$. :)
Sokol1
ATAG_Bliss
Oct-04-2014, 23:30
The point of a forum like this one is that no one will get banned if what they say is backed up by reasonable argument and facts, no matter how unpopular their opinion.
Are we related? :D More truer words have never been spoken. You can always tell a BS artist and someone that actually knows what they are talking about when they are able to actually give examples and supply evidence for their arguments.
I was banned on the BoS forum today for speculating on the reason the Eagle's Nest server was shut down. I used a past history of knowledge with 777 to come to that conclusion on how they deal with criticism.
So sure enough, look what comes out. The exact same thing I said (though I said it much nicer and with a "probably what happened" situation). Wonder if he'll get banned for saying essentially the same thing I did as well?
http://i.imgur.com/6TJfjqv.png
I think he knew what was coming...
http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/4017773/No_longer_active_on_this_forum#Post4017773
Arthursmedley
Oct-05-2014, 06:28
Since I only have flight sims on my pc I really appreciate what Jason and 777Studios have done for the genre over the years.
I think I rather admire the guy in a lot of ways; it must have been a real, personal financial risk to buy into RoF five years ago and keep it going. Plus dealing with a dev. team several thousands of miles away with a much different language and culture.
I think what he's managed to do these last few years has been quite an achievement.
Every once in a while though - he really likes to shoot himself in the foot. Seems to have given himself a real knee-capping this time.
Continu0
Oct-05-2014, 06:43
This might bring me to hell, but in the given situation, Aborted Man`s name finally makes a lot of sense... XD
I think he knew what was coming...
http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/4017773/No_longer_active_on_this_forum#Post4017773
FYI, it was his SimHQ friends (Goud I think) who got me per ban on his demand just because I said something which wasnt in favour of ROf (and which was true btw). Jason lost his compass long ago and now it seams hes gone wild completely...hes now confronting even old Il2 46 crowd to defend his WT likegameplay ideas which was (now its obvious) targeted for WT crowd from the very beginning...
gavagai
Oct-05-2014, 09:51
FYI, it was his SimHQ friends (Goud I think) who got me per ban on his demand just because I said something which wasnt in favour of ROf (and which was true btw). Jason lost his compass long ago and now it seams hes gone wild completely...hes now confronting even old Il2 46 crowd to defend his WT likegameplay ideas which was (now its obvious) targeted for WT crowd from the very beginning...
It is a safe bet that going after WT was also 1C's idea. That is a long range strategic goal around which everything else is organized. It is the basis of the partnership.
Developers are wondering why flight sims are not big the way they used to be. Their conclusion is that flight sims became less fun as they became more complicated (and realistic), and that the way to make it big is to make it fun again. The unlocking thing is supposed to trigger the dopamine neuortransmitters in your brain. You grind away, earn the upgrade, and you feel like you've accomplished something. So you do it again.
Terrible businessman that he is, I think Luthier's idea was better. Flight sims are not too hard or complicated. Rather, they need to be more fun to learn. The typical flight sim training tutorial is f'ing terrible.
Developers are wondering why flight sims are not big the way they used to be. Their conclusion is that flight sims became less fun as they became more complicated (and realistic), and that the way to make it big is to make it fun again. The unlocking thing is supposed to trigger the dopamine neuortransmitters in your brain. You grind away, earn the upgrade, and you feel like you've accomplished something. So you do it again.
I am fairly confident, those exact words were spoken about MS Flight at it's release.
gavagai
Oct-05-2014, 10:10
http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/11234-getting-unlocking-over-fast-possible/
This thread outlines just how absurd the unlocking process is. People are letting the autopilot fly ground attack missions for them at 16x time compression.
And these comments are jaw-dropping:
Sharpexb:
Sounds like Autopilot needs to be removed from "Normal" settings.
It's sad that people are so obsessed with multiplayer that they can't enjoy the game 1CGC spent so much work making.
Mastiff:
yes some people have no respect... and the one who said I didn't pay for unlocks well you paid for the plane set.
Isn't it true that in WT you can earn your points in multiplayer? It seems like BOS has actually found a way to be less appealing to multiplayer pilots than WT.
Now 777s team members patronising in Jasons`s style..look at this omg haha
Posted Today, 13:30
apoll791, on 05 Oct 2014 - 13:28, said:
Mandatory completion of tutorials before getting to play properly?? Even for MP??
Zak (777), on 05 Oct 2014 - 14:30, said:
That's a good thing, I believe. What's not good is that it's bugged right now, but it is not going to last.
Tutorial is to make sure that a person can fly a plane in BOS. To make sure that they at least finish the training.You know, there numerous players who throw rotten tomatos at us only because they suck as pilots. The formula is "I can't take off/land - the game's shit". By making a tutorial mandatory we try to minimise the ammount of such players.
Jaws2002, on 05 Oct 2014 - 16:14, said:
So basically the same patronizing attitude:
Our customers are too stupid to take off on their own, customers are too stupid to configure their graphics settings, customers are too stupid to know what game mode they want to play.
......
LuseKofte
Oct-05-2014, 10:34
I do not know what their reasons was doing it this way. I will in any case not do these unlocks for gaining points of any kind. I got all the experience needed to do those easy and rubbish offline campaigns.
In a single hit they ruined my one and only hope for continuing with this hobby. I see absolutely no reason what so ever to continue with WW2 combat simulators.
You lot might be fine with only cod, but for me the so called WT experience are here too. It is just one server operating , and 4 missions. Life is a miracle round , when you are finished do it over again.
While many here laugh of the fact that BOS failed, remember you also laugh of tha fall off combat sims. So please continue. When DCS is in a state calling itself a WW2 sim you will not find any simmers left with a joystick.
Luse, I really don't think anyone here is laughing at the current state of BOS.
I think those of us here commenting, like many over on the BOS forums, are just very passionate about our flight simming , and really that is a good thing. It is up to the developers whether they listen to us or not.
It is my hope, by us expressing our displeasure, they do listen at least to some of it, and make some changes.
Zak - even though he made some disparaging comments, even made a comment earlier today, which gave me at least a small amount of hope - to the effect of " yes we are listening, but you can't expect us to make changes over the weekend"...
I spent 95 bucks on day one, for the BOS Early Access. I have no desire to laugh at it should it fail, quite the contrary, I want more than anything for it to succeed, for the benefit of the future of WWII Combat flight simming. I am pretty sure that same sentiment is shared by most if not all here.
gavagai
Oct-05-2014, 11:04
When DCS is in a state calling itself a WW2 sim you will not find any simmers left with a joystick.
I don't understand the disdain? DCS is where I spend 95% of my flight sim time. With the appropriate map and ground vehicles it will be a WW2 sim and not just a warbird simulator. Plus, the average user can learn the ME, unlike RoF (and I predict BOS).
LuseKofte
Oct-05-2014, 11:10
Well I have really no interest flying circles in the skies with two fighters to choose from. The reason for my negative future prospects is the time it takes to develop the planes I am interested in. And they are not at all planned. I really don't fancy P-51 and FW 190 or any other single engined fighter , butI have no doubt at all it eventually will be the best sim ever.
I am glad you find pleasure with it tho
gavagai
Oct-05-2014, 11:33
Yes, slim pickings if you like twin-engine aircraft, I agree. With the 109, P-47, Spit and 262, some bombers and attack aircraft will be sorely missed. Maybe we'll see them as AI models first, and then later as flyables. With the potential of 3rd party developers there is no telling what will happen.
Want to sell my BoS right now... Just can't stand unlocking things after I bought the game... Even on MP server you have to play SP to unlock bombs, rockets, ammo for multiplayer sesion etc... :grrr::pcsux:
I hear ya, but you might have trouble finding a buyer at this time.
LuseKofte
Oct-05-2014, 11:57
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsPjn1L0elw
If only......
But seriously, I am gonna reinstall fsx and install this
My 2 cents on the unlock-topic: Not at all am I concerned about its impact on MP. For the simple reason that it only will be a matter of days until 777 will announce that they will skip their current idea that MP players have to unlock equipment through a SP process. On this one I would even bet that the announcement will not take longer until Tuesday. As result of the customer's feedback it probably is already made. But due to "personal", "emotional" reasons of one or two individuals the developers most likely will postpone the announcement until Tuesday.
Far away from being a SP pilot myself I feel more sorry for them. Looking back at the original statements BoS was supposed to be a "mainly SP game with MP features" (not the exact words) with some completely new campaign experience that somehow had the idea to merge the SP and MP worlds. I remember that this made even me curious about SP things to come. But I can't imagine that the current campaign mode - that in my opinion is only a sequence of advanced quick missions - has the potential to motivate SP pilots on a longer-term basis. The developers might introduce some more motivating aspects like promotions and medals but there surely will not be some sort of sophisticated campaign in a foreseeable future. With sophisticated I mean some sort of motivating dynamic and/or immersive story-driven campaign.
But as I said for MP pilots and squadrons the current status soon will only be a weird step in the development process. Something that "broke a lot of glass" but will not affect the MP experience.
To me much more of a risk for BoS MP future is the general attitude of the developers who seem to restrict everything as much as they can (i. e. the community servers like Eagle Nest, the graphic and realism options, the availability of the mission builder). In addition, I am concerned that the development of BoS will not be driven by the idea to improve the game (adjusting FM, DM,...) but mainly by publishling new, directly profit-generating content. But this is something that only time will tell...
Far away from being a SP pilot myself I feel more sorry for them. Looking back at the original statements BoS was supposed to be a "mainly SP game with MP features" (not the exact words) with some completely new campaign experience that somehow had the idea to merge the SP and MP worlds. I remember that this made even me curious about SP things to come. But I can't imagine that the current campaign mode - that in my opinion is only a sequence of advanced quick missions - has the potential to motivate SP pilots on a longer-term basis.
Well I can certainly say, as a SP pilot player only, I have 0 motivation to fly the campaign in it's current form.
Zak, on 05 Oct 2014 - 16:33, said:
The game design decision is the message from our studio, it speaks for itself.
Unlocks give you motivation, smth to keep flying for, something rewarding your success. How can it be bad when you're given a bonus every time you reach a certain amount of game experience?
I wish we gave you no unlocks in the first place, but we had to test them and we let you do that.
heinkill
Oct-05-2014, 12:53
My 2 cents on the unlock-topic: Not at all am I concerned about its impact on MP. For the simple reason that it only will be a matter of days until 777 will announce that they will skip their current idea that MP players have to unlock equipment through a SP process. On this one I would even bet that the announcement will not take longer until Tuesday. As result of the customer's feedback it probably is already made. But due to "personal", "emotional" reasons of one or two individuals the developers most likely will postpone the announcement until Tuesday.
For the sake of the title, the team, (and their families!) I hope you are right. Unfortunately the leadership there has a history of ignoring any criticism that doesn't fit their world view, which is obviously how decisions like this make it through in the first place - when you have a culture of attacking even fairly balanced critique.
It SHOULD be relatively easy for them to re-programme the game so that in MP all the mods are unlocked. If they did that - wupti - most of the angst and anger would evaporate. Then you would just be left with the single player community wanting more from the campaign, but they after all are used to being ignored ;)
H
gavagai
Oct-05-2014, 13:28
For the sake of the title, the team, (and their families!) I hope you are right. Unfortunately the leadership there has a history of ignoring any criticism that doesn't fit their world view, which is obviously how decisions like this make it through in the first place - when you have a culture of attacking even fairly balanced critique.
I would go further and say that the leadership has a history of cutting off its nose to spit its face. They will stick with something that's really bad if only to show their critics who is in charge. When the number of active players dwindle, they will blame the flight sim community in general for the misfortune: "it's niche; it's fickle; it has unrealistic expectations, etc."
LuseKofte
Oct-05-2014, 17:31
I have decided to ignore the stupidity of choices made by the devs and liking the game anyway. My future in WW2 combatsims depend on a second game to fly. I go la la la la la next time I see a topic like this and hide :recon: whaa in other words I :wf:
Isn't it true that in WT you can earn your points in multiplayer? It seems like BOS has actually found a way to be less appealing to multiplayer pilots than WT.
Yes, you earn points/xp in WT through Multiplayer, you can earn a little something from the single player stuff, but it's so minute that it is completely inconsequential. Basically the entire thing is MP. What I find the puzzling part, it wasn't like WT players were exactly happy when they added the various unlocks in, especially when you previously had a perfectly fine flying plane, now you needed to unlock all the bells and whistles just to get it up to standard. Why copy a system that people didn't like there to try and entice them to play BoS. Just baffles me.
Grinding to unlock stuff is one of the major gripes people have with WT, but of course even sillier to copy that kind of thing if you think about it because in all likelihood WT copied that bit of garbage to try and entice WoT players once they got tanks in game. I haven't really spent time with World of Tanks, but main complaint I heard from folks i knew playing there was about the grind... lol.
This of course is also ignoring the fact that those games are f2p and their money comes not from selling everything in one big chunk of content like BoS, but countless micro-transactions, mostly to speed up your progress. So there it is a way to earn money, for BoS? I have no idea what the goal there is.
I'm honestly surprised that they didn't quip back, "well would you rather have to pay for any extra on your plane like in RoF?" acting like they are doing us all a favor by allowing us to unlock them "for free!" they might have at this point, but i've stopped reading over there about it :-P
gavagai
Oct-07-2014, 20:53
I'm honestly surprised that they didn't quip back, "well would you rather have to pay for any extra on your plane like in RoF?" acting like they are doing us all a favor by allowing us to unlock them "for free!" they might have at this point, but i've stopped reading over there about it :-P
I would almost answer back "yes" were it not for the variety of weapon mods that never saw combat in RoF. Just wait. In two years you'll be able to arm your 109 with underwing Mk 103 gondolas. Yes, I said Mk 103, not Mk 108.
:doh:
BlitzPuppet
Oct-08-2014, 15:03
Uninstalled last night. Sad, I really wish I could get my money back but really doubt I would be able to after a year of "owning" it.
DCS and CloD it is!
ATAG_((dB))
Oct-08-2014, 15:25
I am not sure that is is a bad thing, War Thunder was a great school and recruitment tool for of and it just starting I might say. If BoS turn like that that makes more people here.
o7
implicit A
Oct-08-2014, 15:44
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsPjn1L0elw
If only......
But seriously, I am gonna reinstall fsx and install this
It's a nice Piece of Art !
A2A have good products
Unfact, for light planes as a fighter ( spit or P51) i prefer for far DCS now, because of FM and physics, i think for a heavy bomber like that, less sensitiv to ground effect and physics, FSX + A2A is a quite acceptable experience, (or a great nice experience in a study immersive product) . What a pity you wont be able to throw your bombs with that.
ATAG_((dB))
Oct-08-2014, 15:58
i think for a heavy bomber like that, less sensitiv to ground effect
The bigger to more ground effect you should have.
ATAG_Colander
Oct-08-2014, 16:06
The bigger to more ground effect you should have.
http://www.airlinereporter.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/58005.jpg
implicit A
Oct-08-2014, 16:16
:woohoo::glaughter:
oh !
sorry for my poor english , what i wanted to say is :
as fsx is not the best accurate Flight physics engine (compare to DCS for example) maybe it is less noticable with a big heavy plane ?
the ground effect wasn't the appropriate word sorry about that.
nice awesome aircraft !! Colander. but ... is it really something which can fly or just a high speed "boat" ? wing seems a bit short, aren't ? :salute:
ATAG_((dB))
Oct-08-2014, 16:22
:thumbsup:
implicit A
Oct-08-2014, 16:25
have a look on that : many BOSboys seems to install CLOD + TF for a try
http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/11237-il-2-original-or-new-release/page-2
great news...
ATAG_Colander
Oct-08-2014, 16:32
nice awesome aircraft !! Colander. but ... is it really something which can fly or just a high speed "boat" ? wing seems a bit short, aren't ? :salute:
It's a plane as long as it doesn't try to climb higher than a couple meters and loose the ground effect :)
A curious thing about BoS Campaign gameplay is:
At the same time that force the hardcore "sofa pilot" :D that choose EXPERT mode play with unlock, XP...
force the "casual player" that chosse NORMAL mode fly with complex mode (physics, FM, DM).
The major differences is the last have aids for:
- Engine management (auto radiators, PP, RPM limit...) - only need manage the throtle.
- Navigation - Waypoint ring in the sky, distance, icons, planes on map(radar/GPS).
- Aiming - impact point for bombs and rockets
And these aids can by turned off in mission, allowing the NORMAL mode fly with CEM and Externals (not available in EXPERT).
Only CUSTOM mode - not available in Campaign - allow simply physics.
LuseKofte
Oct-09-2014, 13:37
have a look on that : many BOSboys seems to install CLOD + TF for a try
http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/11237-il-2-original-or-new-release/page-2
great news...
There you go,I have said it all the time, box is perfect in-between sim that ultimately leads to cod. Hope this will mean more populated servers
Blade_Meister
Oct-10-2014, 15:18
I would encourage Pilots who have tried out BOS to go to Metacritic and register(it takes 2 minutes) and write a fair review of BOS. Right now the only positive reviews are all 10. I am not trying to sway anything, but consumers who are looking at purchasing BOS should know that it is a not a 10. Of course, if you think it is a 10, well then I have to disagree with you, but that is for another thread discussion.:D If you do critique it, please write a fair review, noting positives and negatives. Please don't just bash it. Thanks.:thumbsup:
http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/il...d/user-reviews
S!Blade<><
II/JG3~Siggi
Oct-11-2014, 11:42
I wonder why A2A and DCS don't collaborate.
Imagine their B17 in DCS!
II/JG3~Siggi
Oct-11-2014, 12:44
Imagine their B17 in DCS!
Aye. And their other WW2 rides. If they were ported over, DCS could go to work on mid-war stuff while A2A did more...mid-war stuff. Ach, I'm starting to drool.:D
IIJG27Rich
Oct-13-2014, 17:57
Well....DANG IT! I gave it a not bad review too. Well maybe it's a good thing. We wouldn't want a split. I think I would rather have one great sim where good pilots end up on their journey through the WWII combat sim world....This one
So as predicted they are starting to back off and probably will leave BOS even sooner then they did leave the ROF....They really believed the warthunder crap and arrogant attitude will sell more copies to il2 crowd?
http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/11666-user-reviews/
Zak wrote:
Pilots.
There’s quite a picturesque scene on our page at metacritic.com. Most of the comments left by players (there’s no proof that they actually played the game thou) are blankly negative. These people have a direct, vivid and purposeful intention to finish the very existence of IL-2 brand. They want this remarkable and world-renown flight sim franchise to die.
I’ve discussed the situation with Loft earlier today. So, if the user opinion shown by metacritic is what the community believes in, then we, as he says, will need to close the project this December. If their attitude prevails, if haters win and dominate over those who love IL-2 Sturmovik then the game is over - it’s out of the shelves, out of hard drives, out of memory.
If you want to shut down the series then just leave the situation as it is now, and let a bunch of trolls and haters finish it.
You want the game to live, to develop and to turn into the best WWII combat flight sim over time? You love it? Then speak it out. Tell you virtual and real friends, tell the new younger pilots, tell it to the group of 30 men who is not on the forum and whose days and nights are devoted to creating IL-2 for you.
So as predicted they are starting to back off and probably will leave BOS even sooner then they did leave the ROF....They really believed the warthunder crap and arrogant attitude will sell more copies to il2 crowd?
http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/11666-user-reviews/
Why would they want to continue when they are faced with the BS that gets put about by members of the "community"? What community I wonder.
Read their development blogs and then identify exactly where they have fallen behind on what they said. If it was predicted they leave, and there is then a concerted effort to destroy the product well duh I wonder what could happen.
Now what is also an interesting point is that a lot of CLOD supporters will say that part of the reason for CLOD failing is the way that the community dealt with CLOD on release. Now some of that "community" is out to get BoS. Not all, but some. How utterly stupid.
Hood
Well....DANG IT! I gave it a not bad review too. Well maybe it's a good thing. We wouldn't want a split. I think I would rather have one great sim where good pilots end up on their journey through the WWII combat sim world....This one
I reckon it'll be DCS but in the meantime I'm hoping for a rapid TF turnaround on new theatres and planes and for BoS to be a success that drives new theatres and planes in the IL2 franchise.
Hood
II/JG3~Siggi
Oct-14-2014, 09:08
So as predicted they are starting to back off and probably will leave BOS even sooner then they did leave the ROF....They really believed the warthunder crap and arrogant attitude will sell more copies to il2 crowd?
http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/11666-user-reviews/
Good grief. Now with a threat and a totally bent accusation that none of the critical reviews could be genuine, sincere or motivated by disappointment in a game they wanted to be good.
And "the best WWII combat flight sim over time"?! What has the guy been smoking?! It's not even in the same county as CloD, never mind ball-park, yet he has the brass neck to say "best WWII combat flight sim"?! It doesn't have the code there to be enhanced even if there were modders like TF to get at it and do the magic. It's an empty box.
The devs are responsible for its failure but that they would accuse the community of responsibility for that was entirely predictable and inevitable. The over-whelming reek of arrogance.
Why would they want to continue when they are faced with the BS that gets put about by members of the "community"? What community I wonder.
Read their development blogs and then identify exactly where they have fallen behind on what they said. If it was predicted they leave, and there is then a concerted effort to destroy the product well duh I wonder what could happen.
Now what is also an interesting point is that a lot of CLOD supporters will say that part of the reason for CLOD failing is the way that the community dealt with CLOD on release. Now some of that "community" is out to get BoS. Not all, but some. How utterly stupid.
Hood
You are right to a point. Witch hunts are no fun, even if a product is not as up to those standarts as they were expected initially.
IMHO they should never have used the IL2 brand name with all the emotions, memories and expectations attached to it, while in fact developing a RoF/Warthunder melange in concept. They shot their own foot with that one.
One also really has to say, the confrontational way the devs react to critique combined with all the self praise does not make an impression of confidence. Say what you want about Luthier (and for my taste he was way too rarely seen on the Banana forums) but when he answered, he did it with style and admittance, even in the face of all the community heat. You really got the feeling he took the opinions to heart, even though he was not able to live up to them.
Jason, on the other hand, strikes me as an utterly unlikeable person.
Im a sim lover from heart and every sim failure is "mine" too (in some twisted way). But the arrogance which Jason delivered to the team and they "honest" approach to matter plus warthunder crap will burn their sim alongside with their credentials for future projects.
Well at least we have CLOD and TF.
Another 90 bucks trashed. I feel ashamed I didnt donate this to ATAG server or to ppl who made CLOD live long....
NEXT.
LuseKofte
Oct-14-2014, 09:32
This I rather have one Sim , what about us that want more? It is a fact that we ruin the foundation we stand on..
The fact is after a year with clod, most reduce their time with it, and some leave, other Join acg campaign or sow and never goes on public server.
Ww2 combat Sim slowly dies caused by hate and dividing groups. Those tired of cod leave the genre all together.
But this way of thinking, from many is devastaiting. 777 studios got the responsebillity for shutting it down.
For my sake, this is the final blow for any interesting prospects of a living and breathing sim.
Cod simply is not enough
You might want to have a look at the latest thread over there from this morning Luse...
Fwiw, I love Cliffs, and it will be my main go to WWII combat flight sim for a long time, and I can't wait to see what TF does for it in their next mod release. But I am mainly a single player guy, and there are some great user made campaigns available for it.
I never believe 0/10 reviews, but then again never believe 10/10 reviews either. Saying that, a developer asking people to go and pad the reviews on a site whilst threatening to abandon ship if its not done strikes me as a little dishonest...
This one makes me sick and quite angry
Tree_uk Oct 8, 2014
0
Been so excited about this game since the demise of Cliffs of Dover. It had everything going for it, great graphics, devs who seemed to listen to the community, everyone was happy.
Now though, it seems it was all smoke and mirrors, once they had the money from the early access players they did a bait and switch just before release and turned it into an arcade 'shoot em up' with xp, unlocks in single player for multiplayer and developers who seem to be going out of their way to annoy their customers.
I was unhappy with Cliffs, and went out of my way to cause as much trouble as possible on the 1c forum at the time, I wanted that sim to die and got a great deal of satisfaction when it was cancelled by 1c. Now I realise what an idiot I was, as all we are left with is this arcade mess called BoS and developers who strung us along right until the end .
Come back Luthier all is forgiven :(
That bloke is scum. Him, AbortedMan and Hooves (same guy?) and co were on 1C doing their best to destroy COD. Really makes me sick.
If BOS goes under can we pool together some cash to buy the COD source code from 1C?
This one makes me sick and quite angry
Tree_uk Oct 8, 2014
0
Been so excited about this game since the demise of Cliffs of Dover. It had everything going for it, great graphics, devs who seemed to listen to the community, everyone was happy.
Now though, it seems it was all smoke and mirrors, once they had the money from the early access players they did a bait and switch just before release and turned it into an arcade 'shoot em up' with xp, unlocks in single player for multiplayer and developers who seem to be going out of their way to annoy their customers.
I was unhappy with Cliffs, and went out of my way to cause as much trouble as possible on the 1c forum at the time, I wanted that sim to die and got a great deal of satisfaction when it was cancelled by 1c. Now I realise what an idiot I was, as all we are left with is this arcade mess called BoS and developers who strung us along right until the end .
Come back Luthier all is forgiven :(
That bloke is scum. Him, AbortedMan and Hooves (same guy?) and co were on 1C doing their best to destroy COD. Really makes me sick.
If BOS goes under can we pool together some cash to buy the COD source code from 1C?
Osprey, also see this:
Real_TreeUK
Oct 10, 2014
8
You may have seen a review below by someone claiming to be me, i.e Tree_Uk, Obviously this guy is still hurt about me correctly predicting what a mess CLOD would be, anyhow, he is not Tree-UK because I am, so please ignore his pathetic attempt at rubbishing BOS. Did make me giggle though, like I would ever apologise for the mess that CLOD was on release.... some people eh!
Tree_UK was one of the very few that questioned CLOD pre-release and was proven correct. Nothing he said/did would have made me think he wanted the sim to die. Would be nice to find out which entry is the genuine one.
Hood
LuseKofte
Oct-14-2014, 10:49
I am not entirely sure they got it, but Luthier got a point.
I wonder if the source still excist
I wonder why Tree was not doing the same thing on the BoS forum...
I never believe 0/10 reviews, but then again never believe 10/10 reviews either. Saying that, a developer asking people to go and pad the reviews on a site whilst threatening to abandon ship if its not done strikes me as a little dishonest...
Read that request again - nothing dishonest about openly asking people that love a game to leave a review about it. It's no justification, but ask yourselves how many 0/10 reviews were left because people were pissed at the direction the sim took, despite that direction being stated publicly for months? How many are genuinely objective reviews?
So it's ok to leave a BS review because you're annoyed, but not allowed to give a good review when you think it deserves on?
Now, leaving a 10/10 review just to counter a 0/10 review is just silly - asking for that would be dishonest. Better to leave a genuine review in all cases I'd say. For me, based on what it is right now as an almost-release beta I'd say it's around 8/10.
Hood
Hood, I see.
But Tree was, and is, an arsehole, and even if it wasn't him who wrote it, it still speaks the truth. What has COD's release in 2011 got to do with his comments anyway? He was wrong in his actions, always, and it's indefensible.
This I rather have one Sim , what about us that want more? It is a fact that we ruin the foundation we stand on..
The fact is after a year with clod, most reduce their time with it, and some leave, other Join acg campaign or sow and never goes on public server.
Ww2 combat Sim slowly dies caused by hate and dividing groups. Those tired of cod leave the genre all together.
But this way of thinking, from many is devastaiting. 777 studios got the responsebillity for shutting it down.
For my sake, this is the final blow for any interesting prospects of a living and breathing sim.
Cod simply is not enough
I agree with you except for the bit about ACG not going on public servers. By running our campaigns we keep our members interested in COD and they do fly on public servers at other times. We can't open our campaign to the public because we already have 70+ pilots flying in it each week - there is simply no room.
Now, leaving a 10/10 review just to counter a 0/10 review is just silly
Hood
But this is exactly what is now happening, which makes the whole review process invalid does it not?
Would they really cancel the whole game in December just because of some negative reviews on an obscure website? I call bullshit on that.
What bugs me immensly about this whole metacritc affair is that it showcases the attitudes of the developers. If that attitude also applies towards other aspects of the game and their look on the community....I'd rather stay away for this reason alone. IMHO this kinda stuff is immensly immature. You feel like being in a Western movie with Ranchers employing dirty tricks to get their land. This is no business culture, this is rotten capitalism to the extreme.
Since I only have flight sims on my pc I really appreciate what Jason and 777Studios have done for the genre over the years.
I think I rather admire the guy in a lot of ways; it must have been a real, personal financial risk to buy into RoF five years ago and keep it going. Plus dealing with a dev. team several thousands of miles away with a much different language and culture.
I think what he's managed to do these last few years has been quite an achievement.
You make it sound like a service. I disagree, I think he went in eyes open to pull the rug from under Luthier and take the game to 777, then bait the crowd for cash with the intention of making a big crowd game. I told him this after he complained to me that I slagged off BOS on Gamespot, although I pointed out it was because they claimed that they made 'the most realistic flight sim ever' and I disagreed with that. He denied the way it all happened though, but deep down I don't believe it, but I do believe that 1C were looking for a way out because Luthier's project management sucked.
But when I see this kind of review it fuels that thought once more.
max_powers Oct 9, 2014
0
As a long time simmer I think I should clear some things up.
BoS is the game that killed the I2 series. Jason Williams literally came to 1c and convinced them to cancel development on Il2; Battle of Moscow. The true successor to the Il2 series made by Il2 developers. Jason Williams is someone with no background in flight sims, someone who worked for a hardware manufacturer and saw an opportunity in buying NeoGB - a company that made a WW1 flight sim.
Under Jasons brilliant guidance, the renamed NeoGB started making DLC the likes of which that would make bethesda with their horse armor envious. He managed to milk the ww1 flight sim fans, at east the fanatic ones, for all they were worth. And in the process drove off all the hard core simmers, thanks to his complete disregard for historically accurate performance.
Now this Jason Williams is tainting the Il2 name, one of the most esteemed in all of combat flight simming, by making a game that follows the lead of Rise of Flight. One filled with micro-transactions, with little care given to historical flight performance and no care given to the machines used at stalingrad. This is a game where the 190 is given free reign over stalingrad, even though it never served there. While the iconic Ju-52, which played a vital role at stalingrad is simply absent... I think some of this has to do with what planes will sell to the "light sim" audience 777 is targeting.
For everyone who is reading about this game and might be thinking "this is a sequel to Il2" - it is not. This is a cash grab by a developer who has shown a clear disdain for its community time and time again. A developer who cares more about making 1.99 off of colored scarves rather then updating the flight models of aircraft that are clearly inaccurate (they said it was too hard to do and their engine made changing fms impossible, but they added altimeters for money!
<snip>
This is a game made by a man wanting money, with no love or care for aviation, let alone ww2. Don't give opportunists like this your money.
ATAG_Colander
Oct-14-2014, 12:14
Luthier's project management sucked.
I'm not so sure about this. Everyone assumes that as a fact but you have to remember that he took over when Oleg left because of what appears to be pressure to release an unfinished product.
I'm not so sure about this. Everyone assumes that as a fact but you have to remember that he took over when Oleg left because of what appears to be pressure to release an unfinished product.
I'D really like to hear the whole story one day because, frankly, there are enough rumors floating around to fill a book, without any definites.
ATAG_Colander
Oct-14-2014, 12:21
I'D really like to hear the whole story one day because, frankly, there are enough rumors floating around to fill a book, without any definites.
I have the feeling the full story could make a movie with the quote "You can't handle the truth" :)
I'm not so sure about this. Everyone assumes that as a fact but you have to remember that he took over when Oleg left because of what appears to be pressure to release an unfinished product.
I'm going by both IL2 and DCS, he appears to underestimate badly. COD for it's greatness also wasted a lot of time on pointless features, largely from poor research. For example, building the Fw-200, Bf108, lack of 100 octanes and CPS which came as a surprise to Luthier. Maybe they were over resourced in some areas compared with others, but proper allocation of resources in the right direction may have got them over the line.
I don't know what the situation is with the source code and how modifiable it is or who has access to what but it would be nice to know what limitations are there. I also wonder now, if BOS does collapse, what the odds are of a crowd fund to buy the source from 1C - surely they never deleted it. In fact, would it even be helpful?
From this post from Loft you can see how he as the developer sees the gameplay.
Question that Zak and him answered was about when stats will be finished.
Zak, on Oct 10 2014 - 19:16, said:
After the release, after a month or two. Loft better answer about the timing, or just say - six months. )
Well, not half of a year. But there is a process. First we need to make a universal server ranks, I mean the interesting missions because there won't be many of them and the regulations.
Then fix it and then transferred to the statistics because we collect it only for ourselves. Ie, we will need some time. You can help. You have Zeus who uses our tools very well and ideas will come.
Conditions are as follows:
There shouldn't be many missions in the rotation. For the first half of the year no more than 10. It's desirable that they are on a small map, because we shall perhaps optimize more
but now saturated online at Stalingrad map will not work well with weaker computers .
All missions must have the same meaning. And may be different in the weather,wind, the location of airfields and goals. Game rules are universal. Airfields covered by anti-aircraft guns. Have the same equivalent quantity of targets for both teams. Ie 20 machines here and there, the train here and there, the tanks here and there. Ie whatever amount of points for a ground targets for both teams coincide.
It is desirable to have different goals, including the 1st super goal, a good AA cover, which can be destroyed only by heavy aircraft or several sturmoviks. The successful destruction of such targets provides an initial 50% to win for one of the teams. Accordingly, the fighters of both teams have 2 goals, cover your bombers or intercept the enemy. Within a 30-minute session there is a macro task. Or, you can of course crab or just DF arround. The message is clear, do not die,your death give the other team points.
The mission time is 30 minutes. Recovery time for a ground units I suggest 10 minutes. Ie time to revive 1 or 2 times per session. Well, you understand me, who understands you can now make it, do a mission,, we will than test it.
http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=ru&tl=en&u=http://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/topic/2002-obsuzhdenie-82-j-chasti-dnevnikov-razrabotchika/page-2&usg=ALkJrhgddDkjS_dR8WZl37x4BulY8t4www#entry213094
Disclaimer: I'm sure that there will be different servers with different missions but there is a strong feeling that those servers will not be incorporated into the statistics.
Loft was talking about that earlier but not in detail.
There are many pilots asking for a longer mission times, especially bomber pilots, they asked for minimun 45 min but Loft said that's enough on a smaller map.
The metacritic thread was removed while I was reading it! :( anyone know if it's was saved somewhere. Was a good read while commuting.
PFT_Endy
Oct-14-2014, 13:12
Haha, same here :) Their response was typical though, can't deal with responses in a thread? Delete!
I'm still waiting for Loft to get a banjo out. Until that happens he'll never match Luthier (who I met once, with Oleg. Nice guys.)
Wow, they wiped the whole thread, after getting everyone to post 10/10 scores? Thats low.
omg Jason deleted ALL the topics with threads (1 giant) which were connected to the Zak`s post I linked....and he even deleted that post of Zak and replaced it with his "less dramatic" post but still asks for positive reviews at metacritics and hes again barking at "haters" as he call them.
ChiefRedCloud
Oct-14-2014, 13:22
I'm going to stick my neck out here and most likely get it bit. But, I've read most all the comments here, and I have respect for all comments. And many of the comments by those such as Bliss do make sense, keeping in mind that it is a little over my head. Now to my opinion. I have no problem with disagreeing with something, i.e. parts of BoS, or pointing out facts such as Bliss did, but whether the Devs there listen or not or whether they go their own way, most of our comments will be of little avail so I suspect.
But if we answer our consciousness we must speak up and try to be heard. Why? Because we care. We care about this very small hobby of our, Flight Simming. We see, in our minds, what something could have been or should have been and this distresses us. And after a time it often comes out in the form of anger. And as we most all know, there is little to be gained from anger past a small temporary feeling of relief. I've never understood "Blind" anything. In example, a person reads about a game and just goes out and buys it. No research no investigation, no nothing. Then they find out, HEY, it wont run on my machine, Hey, it runs but it looks like Crap. Etc., etc .... Buyer beware for you are quickly rewarded for your ignorance.
I say all this to try and say, that we here or in other forums, RoF, BoS etc, are not enemies, except in Sim Combat. But yet here we sit taking sides, seemingly anyway, against each other when in fact we ALL want the very same thing. A great Flight Sim to fly. And yet we are regulated to watching those with the resources, i.e. 1C and/or 777 making a sim in a way that we may not agree with. While those of you with the expertise sit back and wonder at the audacity of the way things are be handled while not being able to do anything about it. Dedicated enthusiast like those of Team Fusion have to walk a fine line of copyrights while reverse engineering or creating things from scratch. Which has to be twice as hard as perhaps creating it from scratch if you had the time and resources.
I have to use the term I used in one of my posts over in the RoF forums to describe myself. I am an Eternal Novice Pilot who though I may never amount to anything near an ACE online, have a damed great time flying amongst those such as your selves. I'm sort of like the village idiot that it doesn't take much to entertain me or frustrate me. But I am smart enough to regret seeing the Flight Community render itself apart over some things that we can not directly control. All we can do is give our inputs where applicable and live with our frustrations if we are not listened to.
No I'm not a Harry Carishener or such and no I don't want to lead a chant of Combowa or what ever. Perhaps I should just sit back and say nothing till this blows over. But I felt I had to say something.
Chief
II/JG3~Siggi
Oct-14-2014, 13:24
I'm sure this is the first time ever a games company has resorted to a public threat of fraud (removing the purchased game from player access) in order to falsify a review score. I suspect a good Metacritic score is a condition insisted upon by their investors.
These cowboys really need to be sacked en-masse. Disgusting behaviour.
This one makes me sick and quite angry
Tree_uk Oct 8, 2014
0
Been so excited about this game since the demise of Cliffs of Dover. It had everything going for it, great graphics, devs who seemed to listen to the community, everyone was happy.
Now though, it seems it was all smoke and mirrors, once they had the money from the early access players they did a bait and switch just before release and turned it into an arcade 'shoot em up' with xp, unlocks in single player for multiplayer and developers who seem to be going out of their way to annoy their customers.
I was unhappy with Cliffs, and went out of my way to cause as much trouble as possible on the 1c forum at the time, I wanted that sim to die and got a great deal of satisfaction when it was cancelled by 1c. Now I realise what an idiot I was, as all we are left with is this arcade mess called BoS and developers who strung us along right until the end .
Come back Luthier all is forgiven :(
That bloke is scum. Him, AbortedMan and Hooves (same guy?) and co were on 1C doing their best to destroy COD. Really makes me sick.
If BOS goes under can we pool together some cash to buy the COD source code from 1C?
well Hello there Osprey. While this thread looks like the "who's who of 777 and Jason Williams haters. I will actually attempt to explain my end of the story.
First of all it was my choice to leave the relationship with 777 on the table. Some recent personal issues happen to coincide with the drama of the campaign debacle. For which id like to say Im not a fan of and i openly state that. I have decided to take a complete break from any computer related activity in favor of spending quality time with my family.
As far as opinion that i was " in league with 777" to kill cod is not only hilariously false. Its paranoid. I ( up until my self imposed hiatus from gaming) still enjoyed the occasional clod session with the 401 group on a server i helped setup for wolverine. (To his credit he has done amazing things there which should be applauded).
Aborted Man and myself are decidely different people and to suggest other wise further points to a paranoid rational seen here.
My Metacritic review of BoS. Was posted before the campaign release and would have been effected by that decision. Up until that point, BoS development was doing fantastic. The unwillingness to change the unlock system imho will hinder their success.
Finally, your statement that people who tried to "kill clod" (again absurd) makes you sick. Well hello pot, im kettle, your black. Ive monitored your ACG forums to see what the haters of BoS have been saying and you and a few of your squadmates have been on a crusade ever since BoS was announced.
In the end. I hope you see that this is a game, on a computer screen, there are far more precious things to be experienced and i hope that everryone in this thread, these forums, on the BoS forums and any other place that discusses these games can temporarily take a step back look around, and appreciate the ones around them. I for one will be teaching my 3 year old to ride his new bike for the next few months.
Regards, Hooves
P.S. were all fans of flight. Lets act accordingly eh?
well Hello there Osprey. While this thread looks like the "who's who of 777 and Jason Williams haters. I will actually attempt to explain my end of the story.
First of all it was my choice to leave the relationship with 777 on the table. Some recent personal issues happen to coincide with the drama of the campaign debacle. For which id like to say Im not a fan of and i openly state that. I have decided to take a complete break from any computer related activity in favor of spending quality time with my family.
As far as opinion that i was " in league with 777" to kill cod is not only hilariously false. Its paranoid. I ( up until my self imposed hiatus from gaming) still enjoyed the occasional clod session with the 401 group on a server i helped setup for wolverine. (To his credit he has done amazing things there which should be applauded).
Aborted Man and myself are decidely different people and to suggest other wise further points to a paranoid rational seen here.
My Metacritic review of BoS. Was posted before the campaign release and would have been effected by that decision. Up until that point, BoS development was doing fantastic. The unwillingness to change the unlock system imho will hinder their success.
Finally, your statement that people who tried to "kill clod" (again absurd) makes you sick. Well hello pot, im kettle, your black. Ive monitored your ACG forums to see what the haters of BoS have been saying and you and a few of your squadmates have been on a crusade ever since BoS was announced.
In the end. I hope you see that this is a game, on a computer screen, there are far more precious things to be experienced and i hope that everryone in this thread, these forums, on the BoS forums and any other place that discusses these games can temporarily take a step back look around, and appreciate the ones around them. I for one will be teaching my 3 year old to ride his new bike for the next few months.
Regards, Hooves
P.S. were all fans of flight. Lets act accordingly eh?
Well Hooves, you was acting like an arsehole and blinded superfan sometimes. But lets say its all about our hotheads and passion for sims. Im not an exception. In fact I sometimes say things to ppl which are not ok even though maybe they deserved.
Back to Jason and 777 CO. I know guys simce they were neqb, chatted with main fm guy, and with Han who wasnt so arrogant then....when Jason and his style of communicating with critics appeared on the sim scene, everything went to hell....
tell me now, how do you read Zaks post where he explains that they will probably kill BOS further development in december if metacritic will be negative. Isnt that aletdown of customers and sim fans? Tell me why Jason deleted Zac's topic? Or better why he deleted all the topics aboit it? Why thers such censorship there? What they want to hide? You know very well that only Jasons greed led to decison to transform BOS into bloody Warthunder 2....
777 always advertize the selves as a team which listen thier customers and then they introduce the unlock shite and back into the time when few of the ROF core beta testers reported bugs in FM the answer was that thers no time (that was on rofs beta forum and about s snipe). Mig and few of us persuaded them with facts and tests that n17 fm is crappy. It was obviois anyway. And after that they just didnt care for fm anymore. Work on BOS already started in secrecy. Btw all that their mantra about BOS as the best sim on the market....they treat their customers like morons....Im done with them.
Chuck_Owl
Oct-14-2014, 16:55
Well Hooves, you was acting like an arsehole and blinded superfan sometimes.
Good lord what's up with the agressivity in this forum?
Good lord what's up with the agressivity in this forum?
Dunno. Weird though ain't it. Also strange that people who are done with a game/developer keep coming back to "have a go".
Hood
Black034
Oct-14-2014, 17:13
Another 90 bucks trashed. I feel ashamed I didnt donate this to ATAG server or to ppl who made CLOD live long....
NEXT.
This is the truth yo.
Seriously, I bought BoS right before it gave me the cold shoulder.. realised it was too arcady for my tastes and bought CLOD after someone on their forum recommended it to me.
I haven't even touched BoS since.
Great textures and lighting but it lacks in so many places where it could have stood out.
I got fooled by the "IL2" brand.
They would be better off calling it Rise of Flight: Stalingrad or something and not try to use the IL2 name to mislead people looking for a bloody sim!
~
I really hope BoS has some sales though, maybe it'll pull more arcade aviation players in AND THEN leaving them begging for more detail and authenticity!
Good lord what's up with the agressivity in this forum?
Firstly I wasnt aggresive at all. Secondly you didnt quote entire part of my post where Im talking to Hooves. So it would have a completely different tonality then. So dont pick something out of context, its pathetic. I dont think hes a bad guy at all. He was just a bit blinded with diehard fanboism with 777. No he somehow opened his eyes...a bit.
@Hood - hello BOS hardcore "fan". Send my regards to Jason next time you see him...
Finally, your statement that people who tried to "kill clod" (again absurd) makes you sick. Well hello pot, im kettle, your black. Ive monitored your ACG forums to see what the haters of BoS have been saying and you and a few of your squadmates have been on a crusade ever since BoS was announced.
No I haven't, but I have paid $90, and I have put across my opinion on my forums. I've said very little about the game itself, I've said more about what 777 claims, and alerted JW's personal attention when I disagreed with one of the claims on Gamespot. That's not a crusade at all - If I thought it was good I would say so. It's also a bit ridiculous to suggest that other ACG guys who have also posted negative reviews are somehow under my control, they have their own opinions and they are entitled to them.
ATAG_Colander
Oct-14-2014, 17:37
Once people cools off we might re-open this thread.
ATAG_Colander
Oct-14-2014, 20:05
Thread re-opened.
Please keep it nice.
Hi Colander, I asked about the position of development on COD earlier, are you able to enlighten us?
Re, the suggestion from Hooves, I went back and had a read of my 'timeline' of posts on ACG forums about BOS and it was quite amusing, certainly not the hate campaign alluded to. Starts off with "High hopes for this", goes to "looking good but some textures aren't good" then "first flight, not impressed but give it time", then "Oh dear", eventually to "this sucks" basically lol So no, I've just gradually learned what it's about, there was always hope at the start.
Hi Colander, I asked about the position of development on COD earlier, are you able to enlighten us?
+1 I would pitch in for that. If a fundraiser is done it would be great. Who has the code - physically? and who owns copyright to it? I don't suppose Mr. Schevchenko could help us out in some way? :)
Continu0
Oct-15-2014, 07:16
1C has the code, and a part of the bos-contract with 777 was to lock the code away. That is at least what I read on this forum already...
1C has the code, and a part of the bos-contract with 777 was to lock the code away. That is at least what I read on this forum already...
For that we need a lawyer or a ninja, preferably a ninja lawyer.
II/JG3~Siggi
Oct-15-2014, 07:36
1C has no moral right to retain the code. It dumped the game in an unplayable state and that amounted to fraud. It should be made publically free so that groups like TF can continue to fix and improve it.
But I doubt we'll ever see that kind of moral integrity from the likes of 1C, they've already shown what they're all about.
For that we need a lawyer or a ninja, preferably a ninja lawyer.
Cross border contractual arrangements are not my field unfortunately.
@ Siggi - they don't need moral rights as they have intellectual property rights. As it is you can still play via Steam and they haven't shut TF down.
Hood
II/JG3~Siggi
Oct-15-2014, 08:47
Yes, I know they have every legal right to bury the code. So they can give a clear road to dreck like BoS. But morally they have no right to it at all. They didn't give us a functional game after they had our money. They didn't fix it and make it playable. They dumped it. And I am of the firm belief a company should be liable to prosecution for that kind of fraud and theft.
But failing that it should be possible for a court to force them to hand over the code to the purchasers they defrauded.
For that we need a lawyer or a ninja, preferably a ninja lawyer.
A ninja lawyer with c# skills would be even better ;)
Mysticpuma
Oct-15-2014, 09:35
I don't see this thread going anywhere or helping anyone? Just turning into a I said/you said thread :(
ATAG_Snapper
Oct-15-2014, 09:50
I don't see this thread going anywhere or helping anyone? Just turning into a I said/you said thread :(
Agree.
There was a lot of good info in this thread, but unfortunately it resembled a banana free-for-all at times. Nonetheless, thanks to everyone for contributing. :salute:
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