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View Full Version : Unarmed Spitfires - is it possible using scripting and would anyone fly them?



III./ZG76_Ezzie
Oct-04-2014, 18:13
Busy working my way slowly through my MP mission. One thing I'm hoping to do is to include recon/recce mission objectives and have them contribute to (a) finding the strategic tgts for the bombers and (b) being one objectives input into rolling the map.

On the LW side these missions will be flown by -88s and -110s and in the case of -110s these were armed in RL, albeit with cannons removed it seems. On the RAF side Coastal Command Blennies did a lot of recce/recon but so did small numbers of unarmed Spits (including several - 4? - that were deployed to France before France fell).

Still to be worked out but I'm hoping to set it up so that if you fly within a certain radius of your tgts and are flying a designated recce aircraft you will get some sort of message letting you know you've taken imagery of the tgt (click click goes the camera perhaps) and then if you cover all your tgts in your assigned mission you will get a percentage of the total recce/recon percentage objective completed - you will have to land to get this though as the imagery needs to make it back to base for exploitation. Still to be worked out and might not be possible from a script perspective but this is what I have in mind.

I am thinking of trying to have unarmed Spits in my MP - they will fly from bases in the rear and either conduct high altitude sorties over tgts in southern England (where Blue has established themselves post SEALION) or low level high speed runs over more tactical tgts such as bridges and troop concentrations etc.

2 questions arise

(a) is it possible via scripting or some other means to make these Spitfires unarmed?

(b) And more broadly - would anyone be interested in flying these unarmed Spit recce/recon missions? (I know i would but that's a pretty small sample size and I'm interested in other's views at this stage).

I'm currently finalising the RAF bases for the mission and have set aside one base for RAF recce/recon Spits to operate from at this stage pending thoughts re above.

Ezzie

69th_Spiritus_Mortem
Oct-04-2014, 19:06
I for one like the idea but you might have trouble filling that roll in an online map (the unarmed recon). With that said, its your map so you are the boss.

The possibilities are really endless when it comes to scripting, its just a matter of knowing the how, why, what, where, when stuff. I'd suggest allowing the recon to be armed and maybe limit it to a certain type of aircraft. That way you get more people willing to do them and then they could defend themselves if need be.

Having them have to land to complete it is great and possible through scripting. You would just need to be able to store the aircraft ID so it knows that the same aircraft that just landed on base is the same one that took the photos. Easiest way for this would be to create a radius type trigger with a time out in the script (much like my SAR script) so the plane fly's around for X seconds (taking photos), then have the same type of trigger at a single base that will fire if the aircraft ID matches the one that fired the first trigger.... if that makes sense. This does force the recon plane to have to land at a certain base but I think its easier on you in the scripting process.

Can't the recon pilot just use his Iphone and text the pictures back? :D

EDIT: Yes, what :td2: said

bolox
Oct-04-2014, 19:11
I'm SP only but I think I can answer several questions


is it possible via scripting or some other means to make these Spitfires unarmed?
Well the easy way is just to give the particular plane an empty loadout?
you could of course use scripting to 'damage' the respective plane(s)- eg (this is SP - but principles are same)

public class Mission : maddox.game.campaign.Mission
{
AiAircraft PlayerPlane;
bool end = false;
int lnd = 0;

public override void OnTrigger(int missionNumber, string shortName, bool active)
{
base.OnTrigger(missionNumber, shortName, active);

if (("weapon".Equals(shortName) || "trigger02".Equals(shortName)) && active)
{
DoDamage();

}
GamePlay.gpGetTrigger(shortName).Enable = false;


if (GamePlay.gpGetTrigger("land").Active) {
lnd = ++lnd; //increment lnd counter

//GamePlay.gpHUDLogCenter("land:"+lnd);
}
if (GamePlay.gpGetTrigger("mis").Active) {
end = true;
//GamePlay.gpHUDLogCenter("!"); // define reached mission objective
}
}

private void DoDamage()
{
PlayerPlane = (AiAircraft)GamePlay.gpPlayer().Place();
PlayerPlane.hitNamed(part.NamedDamageTypes.Machine gun00Failure);
PlayerPlane.hitNamed(part.NamedDamageTypes.Machine gun01Failure);
PlayerPlane.hitNamed(part.NamedDamageTypes.Machine gun02Failure);
PlayerPlane.hitNamed(part.NamedDamageTypes.Machine gun03Failure);
//GamePlay.gpHUDLogCenter("!!");



// GamePlay.gpGetTrigger(shortName).Enable = false;
}
public override bool IsMissionListener(int missionNumber) {
return true;
}

private void checkLanded(AiAircraft aircraft) {
if (GamePlay.gpPlayer().Place() != aircraft)
return;
if ((end = true) && (lnd > 1)) // check landed, flown out of france and returned, reached mission objective
{

Campaign.battleSuccess = true;

GamePlay.gpHUDLogCenter("GUT GEMACHT!");
}
}
public override void OnAircraftLanded(int missionNumber, string shortName, AiAircraft aircraft) {
checkLanded(aircraft);
}

public override void OnAircraftCrashLanded(int missionNumber, string shortName, AiAircraft aircraft) {
checkLanded(aircraft);
}
}




will have to land to get this though as the imagery needs to make it back to base for exploitation. Still to be worked out and might not be possible from a script perspective but this is what I have in mind.

Is possible- I use it for nearly all my campaign missions - see also above for one way (land trigger is AC base and is triggered every time player plane lands within it and thus increments the lnd counter. Adding the condition of triggering the other trigger (recon point= end) - mission success)

III./ZG76_Ezzie
Oct-04-2014, 19:41
I for one like the idea but you might have trouble filling that roll in an online map (the unarmed recon). With that said, its your map so you are the boss.

The possibilities are really endless when it comes to scripting, its just a matter of knowing the how, why, what, where, when stuff. I'd suggest allowing the recon to be armed and maybe limit it to a certain type of aircraft. That way you get more people willing to do them and then they could defend themselves if need be.

Having them have to land to complete it is great and possible through scripting. You would just need to be able to store the aircraft ID so it knows that the same aircraft that just landed on base is the same one that took the photos. Easiest way for this would be to create a radius type trigger with a time out in the script (much like my SAR script) so the plane fly's around for X seconds (taking photos), then have the same type of trigger at a single base that will fire if the aircraft ID matches the one that fired the first trigger.... if that makes sense. This does force the recon plane to have to land at a certain base but I think its easier on you in the scripting process.

Can't the recon pilot just use his Iphone and text the pictures back? :D

EDIT: Yes, what :td2: said

Thanks SM - agree re possibly few willing to fly. For me the challenges would be to maximise the high altitude max speed of the unarmed a/c to avoid being engaged, accurate navigation (the trigger radius might be reasonably small to ensure accurate nav - will have to experiment to ensure its not too hard though) and then decision making (ie i see 2 contrails coming up toward me what do i do? Keep going on my run and use high speed/initial alt advantage to avoid or abort mission and run for home).

And for the defenders they will have the challenge of intercepting a high speed / high altitude tgt - they will prob get a message tipping them when recon aircraft are inbound so they can decide if they want to chase them and given them a bit of time prior to the recon a/c overflying its recon tgts.

re unarmed - my initial preference is to remove the ammo to remove the option of self defence (at least for the spits - the -110s will have this though) as this makes the decison making a bit more trickier perhaps and its more historically correct (in a non-historical mission mind you...). But point taken and i'll see if there are any other views before i decide - thanks.

re iphone - nice one. But kinda relevant. For the strategic tgts (tank parks and inbound convoys) the intent is for the recce pilot to broadcast the location via TS/Chat once he/she sees the tgt with their own eyes. This will then hopefully enable the bombers to go after the tgt before the recce pilot lands - sorta like the recce pilot being given permission to break radio silence and broadcast in the clear the tgt location given its significance. And this will then trigger a message to the defending side - who are monitoring his comms (Y-service / Horchdients) - that the tgt has been discovered and this might enable the defenders to regroup accordingly and await the inbound bombers. Thats the plan at this stage and thus far it seems do-able re scripting from what you and others have been saying - thanks.

Ezzie

III./ZG76_Ezzie
Oct-04-2014, 19:43
I'm SP only but I think I can answer several questions


Well the easy way is just to give the particular plane an empty loadout?
you could of course use scripting to 'damage' the respective plane(s)- eg (this is SP - but principles are same)

public class Mission : maddox.game.campaign.Mission
{
AiAircraft PlayerPlane;
bool end = false;
int lnd = 0;

public override void OnTrigger(int missionNumber, string shortName, bool active)
{
base.OnTrigger(missionNumber, shortName, active);

if (("weapon".Equals(shortName) || "trigger02".Equals(shortName)) && active)
{
DoDamage();

}
GamePlay.gpGetTrigger(shortName).Enable = false;


if (GamePlay.gpGetTrigger("land").Active) {
lnd = ++lnd; //increment lnd counter

//GamePlay.gpHUDLogCenter("land:"+lnd);
}
if (GamePlay.gpGetTrigger("mis").Active) {
end = true;
//GamePlay.gpHUDLogCenter("!"); // define reached mission objective
}
}

private void DoDamage()
{
PlayerPlane = (AiAircraft)GamePlay.gpPlayer().Place();
PlayerPlane.hitNamed(part.NamedDamageTypes.Machine gun00Failure);
PlayerPlane.hitNamed(part.NamedDamageTypes.Machine gun01Failure);
PlayerPlane.hitNamed(part.NamedDamageTypes.Machine gun02Failure);
PlayerPlane.hitNamed(part.NamedDamageTypes.Machine gun03Failure);
//GamePlay.gpHUDLogCenter("!!");



// GamePlay.gpGetTrigger(shortName).Enable = false;
}
public override bool IsMissionListener(int missionNumber) {
return true;
}

private void checkLanded(AiAircraft aircraft) {
if (GamePlay.gpPlayer().Place() != aircraft)
return;
if ((end = true) && (lnd > 1)) // check landed, flown out of france and returned, reached mission objective
{

Campaign.battleSuccess = true;

GamePlay.gpHUDLogCenter("GUT GEMACHT!");
}
}
public override void OnAircraftLanded(int missionNumber, string shortName, AiAircraft aircraft) {
checkLanded(aircraft);
}

public override void OnAircraftCrashLanded(int missionNumber, string shortName, AiAircraft aircraft) {
checkLanded(aircraft);
}
}





Is possible- I use it for nearly all my campaign missions - see also above for one way (land trigger is AC base and is triggered every time player plane lands within it and thus increments the lnd counter. Adding the condition of triggering the other trigger (recon point= end) - mission success)

Thanks Bolox - very very useful to know its possible and for posting the example script (C# and not C++ as i was thinking up until very recently - duoh......) - thanks for the reply.

Ezzie

III./ZG76_Keller
Oct-04-2014, 20:40
Would these target areas for the Recon planes change every time the mission plays? Otherwise once the targets are found once everybody will know where to go and where to bomb.

RAF74_Buzzsaw
Oct-04-2014, 20:42
We could create Photo Recon Spit I's, they would be quite different than the combat versions.

PRU Spit I had a top speed of 390 mph. Obviously it had no guns or ammunition, no armour or bullet proof glass.

The issue is whether people would actually fly them.

They are likely only of interest for those flying single player campaigns.

Perhaps sometime in the far distant future, when the demands for combat types slackens off we might consider it. :salute:

III./ZG76_Ezzie
Oct-04-2014, 23:28
Would these target areas for the Recon planes change every time the mission plays? Otherwise once the targets are found once everybody will know where to go and where to bomb.

Thanks Keller.

My intent -subject to it being feasible re scripting -is to have at least 4 different locations for some of the tgts and use scripting / sub missions to randomly load one of the 4 tgt locations each time the mission is flown on the server. So while people will know after a while where the 4 tgts are with time they will still have to work out which location is used for the current mission. And if this works and goes down well then updated versions could change these locations and add more variability.

The scenario will be along the lines that our (blue) intel has DF'd the location of 4 suspected strategic tank storage parks within a xx km radius of x, y, z etc locations. The dastardly reds have employed radio deception measures and only one of these is the true location. Recon job is to find the real one and relay info back to bombers who will attack. If enough bombers can attack the tank park at the same time then blue wins the map there and then.

Reds will have a similar scenario involving the convoy coming from France carrying a bunch of panzers to be used for the upcoming offensive. The location of the ships will be varied as per the above.

Hopefully that provides enough randomness?

Ezzie

9./JG52 Hans Gruber
Oct-04-2014, 23:31
is it possible via scripting or some other means to make these Spitfires unarmed?


You can do this in the FMB. Select the spawn point, the view object, then select the aircraft tab. Select the aircraft from the available list and then click weapons. An * next to the weapon indicates the player will be able to select that weapon. Double click to remove the *.

III./ZG76_Ezzie
Oct-04-2014, 23:35
We could create Photo Recon Spit I's, they would be quite different than the combat versions.

PRU Spit I had a top speed of 390 mph. Obviously it had no guns or ammunition, no armour or bullet proof glass.

The issue is whether people would actually fly them.

They are likely only of interest for those flying single player campaigns.

Perhaps sometime in the far distant future, when the demands for combat types slackens off we might consider it. :salute:

Thanks Buzz. I'd fly one but only 1 flyer is probably not worth your while. Perhaps we could use my MP campaign as a guide ie if i implement this recon thing we could perhaps see how many people fly it? If there's a bunch of people who like it then that might justify developing a pru version down track. If no one flys it then there's your answer, for online anyway

For me combat flight simming is more than just shooting /bombing stuff and this is something that appeals to me - as does a Lysander campaign (ala We landed by Moonlight) but that's a topic for another day. I'm thinking there might be others but only time will tell.

Spies in the Sky (Taylor Downing) is a good read for anyone wanting to learn more about RAF WW2 PRU activites etc btw.

Ezzie

III./ZG76_Ezzie
Oct-04-2014, 23:36
You can do this in the FMB. Select the spawn point, the view object, then select the aircraft tab. Select the aircraft from the available list and then click weapons. An * next to the weapon indicates the player will be able to select that weapon. Double click to remove the *.

Perfect -thanks Gruber.

Ezzie

1lokos
Oct-05-2014, 01:14
b) And more broadly - would anyone be interested in flying these unarmed Spit recce/recon missions? (I know i would but that's a pretty small sample size and I'm interested in other's views at this stage).

In the same way as a bomber pilot feels motivated to make a bombing mission, if you set a interesting "target" for RECON Pilot you can find volunteers.

Need by something that make worth this fly.

A photo RECON mission can be done with game screenshot feature, the pilot fly above - maybe at low altitude - take a screenshot and after the RTB upload this picture for some Web site and other players, e.g. bomber pilots access then in game through STEAM Browser. But what kind of target will make a picture essential for bomber pilots find/attack this?

Or what other kind of action a RECON flight can trigger to change the mission course?

SG1_Lud
Oct-05-2014, 06:01
Hi

In HRCODWAR (http://www.halconesrojos.com/hrcodwar/en/home) events, we spend a lot of time doing reckons on the enemy positions. These include airbases, factories, shipyards, hydroelectric centrals etc.
So yes a fast unarmed Spitfire and a fast unarmed 109 would be of high interest for us.

S!

Continu0
Oct-05-2014, 06:20
@OP: Cool idea, would love recon-planes!

@LUD: Is HR-CloD-War still runing?

SG1_Lud
Oct-05-2014, 07:37
@OP: Cool idea, would love recon-planes!

@LUD: Is HR-CloD-War still runing?


Hi Continu0.

HRCODWAR III started last wednesday. Any squad with a dedicated server and a good inet broadband connection can host one. One instance of this campaigns might take 2-3 months or more. HRCODWAR II started in jan 14 and finished just before the summer holidays.

This edition is hosted by SG1 squadron. The war zone this time comprises from Caen to TheVille and the first mission was flown by 52 pilots organized in 3 red squads and 3 blue squads. . You can check it here: http://sg1.es/hrcodwarweb/en/home to see some stats and at the footer of the webpage you can see a video-resume of the ground ops in the 20 weeks that it took to won the last campaign (II).

We are now in the phase of identifying enemy positions so that the commanders can plan the correct strategies and tactics. We lost several planes in reckon (almost suicidal) missions, and the OP idea would be an amazing one to have.

xvii-Dietrich
Oct-05-2014, 11:08
The idea of reconnoitre missions is fantastic! I know the original post was about the Spitfire, but give me something to look for and I'd gladly take an empty Ju 88 out on reconnaissance. Also, I should point out that Ju 88 had multiple purely-recon versions:


Ju 88 C-4
Ju 88 D-1, D-2, D-3, D-4 and D-5
Ju 88 H-1 and H3
Ju 88 T-1 and T-3

Also, Lentolaivue-44 used the Ju 88 A-4 for reconnaissance during the Lapland War.

I wonder if some of these might be an easy addition for a future Team Fusion patch?

In any case, unarmed (or minimally-armed) aircraft are a great idea. (And I would certainly love to fly recon for Blue)

9./JG52 Hans Gruber
Oct-05-2014, 11:13
Would these target areas for the Recon planes change every time the mission plays? Otherwise once the targets are found once everybody will know where to go and where to bomb.

It could be scripted as such that the targets do not spawn in until a specific type of aircraft enters the objective area.

xvii-Dietrich
Oct-05-2014, 12:13
It could be scripted as such that the targets do not spawn in until a specific type of aircraft enters the objective area.

Good idea. Also, if there are several versions of the mission, all of which are identical apart from the location of the hidden units, it would force multiple recon sorties to find them (rather than just a single recon sortie to a known location).

Regarding multiple nearly-identical missions, would we need to have an equal number of multiple copies of each map? E.g. if we have 4 copies of a recon mission, would we need 4 copies of each non-recon mission to prevent the recon mission coming up 4 times more often?

SorcererDave
Oct-05-2014, 12:49
I'd absolutely fly recon Spits in a scenario like this. I love doing the weirder, more unorthodox roles like that. Heck I'd probably download a few pink and blue recon skins just for flying on that mission. Would having the Spits unarmed affect their flight modelling at all? One would hope that without those 8 .303s you might be able to get an extra few miles per hour which could save your arse if spotted by enemy fighters.

9./JG52 Mindle
Oct-05-2014, 17:32
Yeah, I saw something on TV last night. A spit mk V I think with no cannons or guns. Nothing in the air at the time could catch it.

danperin
Oct-05-2014, 17:56
This thread makes me remember this documentary:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ie3SrjLlcUY"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ie3SrjLlcUY

III./ZG76_Ezzie
Oct-05-2014, 18:29
Thanks for the positive feedback everyone. I'll keep going with my plan to include blue and red recon. Not sure yet how I will implement it re scripting /triggers but it seems very doable.

My intent is to set it up so that the tgts are not in the same position each time the mission is run (maybe 4 different locations using sub missions to load one position each time the mission is on the server).

Ala http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=50

And definitely a -88 recce Dietrich. Following Grubers idea I might be able to set it up so u dont have bombs only guns. Might have to have a specific recce base to do that though. Will investigate today.

I'll hopefully buy a c# for uber dummies today and start to educate myself on that side of things.

Ezzie

xvii-Dietrich
Oct-05-2014, 23:27
I've been thinking about this recon idea, and had read up on the Ju 88 D-2, which came into service in 1940 and had cameras mounted in the rear bomb bay.

Then, this evening, I was practising high-level (8000m) bombing, and was dropping single bombs on RAF airfields. If the airfield had not been touched, it would be hit by a single SC50 and then report "Eastchurch is 0% destroyed" or whichever airfield it was.

That gave me an idea for a future TF patch. Imagine an imaginary "0,001 kg" bomb called "film canister". It does effectively no damage, but the game mechanism would still register it. You could probably tweak the parameters of it so it fell instantly. It would also have no 3-D model (it is invisible). If you flew over an airfield and "dropped" it, you would be simulating a photo shoot on that target. The C# script would detect damage, but that there was no change to the amount of damage compared to what was there before. Hence, it was a recon mission.

Of course, the problem here is that technically you'd need to get back to base to have the film developed, so it might not be feasible. But I'm just thinking outside the box a bit, and perhaps it might give someone else some ideas.

danperin
Oct-05-2014, 23:47
I've been thinking about this recon idea, and had read up on the Ju 88 D-2, which came into service in 1940 and had cameras mounted in the rear bomb bay.

Then, this evening, I was practising high-level (8000m) bombing, and was dropping single bombs on RAF airfields. If the airfield had not been touched, it would be hit by a single SC50 and then report "Eastchurch is 0% destroyed" or whichever airfield it was.

That gave me an idea for a future TF patch. Imagine an imaginary "0,001 kg" bomb called "film canister". It does effectively no damage, but the game mechanism would still register it. You could probably tweak the parameters of it so it fell instantly. It would also have no 3-D model (it is invisible). If you flew over an airfield and "dropped" it, you would be simulating a photo shoot on that target. The C# script would detect damage, but that there was no change to the amount of damage compared to what was there before. Hence, it was a recon mission.

Of course, the problem here is that technically you'd need to get back to base to have the film developed, so it might not be feasible. But I'm just thinking outside the box a bit, and perhaps it might give someone else some ideas.

I think this is a great idea, Dietrich. We could push the button to drop bombs (piloting a bomber/fighter adapted to this 'invisible bomb') and the game could respond in the screen, something like "photo taken".

Just receiving a response from the game that "something happened" after i had to push a button would be great for me. :D

I've actually made a recon mission like this once, but you receive the confirmation of the photo taken just for flying over a specific point over the map.

Here: http://airwarfare.com/sow/index.php/downloads/viewdownload/7-single-player-missions/545-blenheim-reconnaissance

RAF74_Buzzsaw
Oct-05-2014, 23:59
There is a simpler way to do this, although it would require code work.

Basically there would be a designated command which when activated by the player, would register his aircraft's map position and altitude. Should be easy enough to do with the game's systems.

If the aircraft position aligns within 500 meters with the map coordinates of mission pre-designated photographic targets, and the aircraft is at the altitude required, the game registers a 'hit'.

For the player's own satisfaction, the command activation process would be implemented by taking a photograph through the aircraft camera's. The photograph would be saved as an image.

All of this would require code work, plus the 3D remodeling of aircraft to have them match the historical types.

As mentioned, at this point in time, our code/3D guys are focused on things like new maps and aircraft/objects, so there is no time for this type of thing, but who knows in the future?

1lokos
Oct-06-2014, 00:02
The "fly through" script dont can be used for this, register that RECON flight overfly the target and trigger some action, or dont work for MP?

III./ZG76_Saipan
Oct-06-2014, 00:18
not to derail the thread but ghost skies had something like this for airborne drops. a certain grid, alt and speed and time limit. They used the wing smoke that IL2 had as an indicator. if you get it to work ezzie we can do agent insertions, radio set drops....

III./ZG76_Ezzie
Oct-06-2014, 06:25
not to derail the thread but ghost skies had something like this for airborne drops. a certain grid, alt and speed and time limit. They used the wing smoke that IL2 had as an indicator. if you get it to work ezzie we can do agent insertions, radio set drops....

Interesting - thanks Saipan.

Thanks everyone else for the ideas and discussion - hopefully this week I'll sit down and work out what I'm trying to achieve exactly with the recce side of things and then start seeing if i can make it work. I bought a C# for dummies book today so am aiming to try and get going on the code thing.

Just finished all the RAF and LW airfields today (still some tidying up to do re the circle and cross hairs symbol that is displayed in the server screen) and have allocated 10 x bridge targets for each side to (a) recon and (b) destroy (only a percentage of these will be required to achieve the bridge recon/destruction objective) tonight. These plus bomber airfields and train stations will be the static tgs - the random tgts will come next once i work out how to do the sub-mission thing.

Ezzie

SoW Reddog
Oct-06-2014, 06:56
Recce flights will be an integral part of Storm of War campaigns. I was going to tie BDA to a recce flight subsequent to the attack, rather than to find the target prior. Without a successful recce, the target is assumed to still be active, even if it was destroyed.

EAF51_Jimmi
Oct-07-2014, 18:50
Fighter pilot here, but would be interesting to fly recce form time to time!

i red a lot of good ideas here!