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ATAG_Deacon
Mar-28-2012, 10:32
From here:

http://www.spitfireperformance.com/spitfire-I.html




Royal Aircraft Establishment at Farnborough
June 1940
Spitfire IA K.9791 with Rotol constant speed propeller
Me 109E-3 Werk-Nr 1304

Comparitive trials between the Me 109E-3 and "Rotol" Spitfire IA


1. The trial commenced with the two aircraft taking off together, with the Spitfire slightly behind and using +6 1/4 lb boost and 3,000 rpm.

2. When fully airborne, the pilot of the Spitfire reduced his revolutions to 2,650 rpm and was then able to overtake and outclimb the Me 109. :bgsmile: At 4,000 ft, the Spitfire pilot was 1,000 feet above the Me 109, from which position he was able to get on its tail, and remain there within effective range despite all efforts of the pilot of the Me 109 to shake him off.

3. The Spitfire then allowed the Me 109 to get on to his tail and attempted to shake him off this he found quite easy owing to the superior manoeuvrability of his aircraft, particularly in the looping plane and at low speeds between 100 and 140 mph. By executing a steep turn just above stalling speed, he ultimately got back into a position on the tail of the Me 109.

4. Another effective form of evasion with the Spitfire was found to be a steep, climbing spiral at 120 mph, using +6 1/4 boost and 2,650 rpm; in this manoeuvre, the Spitfire gained rapidly on the ME 109, eventually allowing the pilot to execute a half roll, on to the tail of his opponent.

5. Comparitive speed trials were then carried out, and the Spitfire proved to be considerably the faster of the two, both in acceleration and straight and level flight, without having to make use of the emergency +12 boost. During diving trials, the Spitfire pilot found that, by engageing fully coarse pitch and using -2lbs boost, his aircraft was superior to the Me 109.:angry:


I say funny because NONE of this is even possible in CloD! I know, I know...beating a dead horse. :runaway:


It just get so tiring attempting the things that happened in real life and being constantly out climbed, out run, out turned, etc...:banghead:

Sigh...

ATAG_Snapper
Mar-28-2012, 10:38
If this is so funny, then why am I crying like a little girl? :blush!:


I DARE you to post this in the banana forum. In fact, I DOUBLE DOG DARE YOU!!!!

Then RUN!!!!!! :runaway:

:bgsmile:

ChiefRedCloud
Mar-28-2012, 10:40
I hear you and feel your woes even if I don't understand all of it. Basically it looks like, at least on the surface, 1C either did not do their homework or they had other reasons for not completing the planes as they should be.

As for the reason, well we could speculate, discuss, and generally raise our collective blood pressures, but to what end. Oh well ..... I guess we enjoy what we have and make the best of it here in a great server and server community, ATAG, huh? :thumbsup:

ATAG_Deacon
Mar-28-2012, 10:53
If this is so funny, then why am I crying like a little girl? :blush!:


I DARE you to post this in the banana forum. In fact, I DOUBLE DOG DARE YOU!!!!

Then RUN!!!!!! :runaway:

:bgsmile:


I would be happy to, unfortunately I do not have access to that site while at work :pouting:...plus it would just be some of this: :hpyclp: a ton of that: :angry: more of this: :shocked: and I would have to do this: :runaway::angrymob:


All in all it really wouldn't be worth the effort over there. Over here where mature adults can have a discussion on things it would be like:

red: :hpyclp:
blue: :angry:

:talk:


:argue:

Box::stupid::TS::shoot::huh:


then:

:FS::lolol::go::pff:

and we'll all be like, let's just go fly:

:rodeo:


LOL

ATAG_Snapper
Mar-28-2012, 11:03
Very true, Chief. As an exclusively Red fighter pilot, obviously I have a bias towards the positive results (for the Spitfire) in this testing. I'm sure the testing was done as objectively as realistically possible. But these results were garnered from a presumably captured E3, set up and maintained by RAF technicians/mechanics using what tools came best at hand, and flown by a no-doubt highly skilled RAF or staff test pilot.

I tend to view the results in that light. Put a LW experten in a freshly-maintained E3 by LW-trained mechanics using their own specialized tools and the picture may be a little different. Or even a LOT different.

It was a good read, nonetheless.

To back Torian's long held position, it would be interesting to have a mission on rotation that allowed unlimited access to all aircraft, including IIa's and E4's. Would the Blues be swept from the skies? I doubt it very much. The Blues' flying skills when going pilot vs pilot would be too high to allow this to happen. But gameplay would be radically changed as both sides adapt to the changed dynamic.

ATAG_Deacon
Mar-28-2012, 11:06
To back Torian's long held position, it would be interesting to have a mission on rotation that allowed unlimited access to all aircraft, including IIa's and E4's. Would the Blues be swept from the skies? I doubt it very much. The Blues' flying skills when going pilot vs pilot would be too high to allow this to happen. But gameplay would be radically changed as both sides adapt to the changed dynamic.

It would be FUN! That's the first thought that popped into my head. Just plain old fun to fly and fight with the best available to both sides...

Robo.
Mar-28-2012, 11:12
Well, to be honest, these trials were on the optimistic side of things to say the least. The E-3 is W.Nr. 1340, crashlanded in France, been evaluated and tested extensively by the French, and then sent to Britain eventually. The history makes interesting reading, but it will become obvious that the machine was not in the best shape, it was using different coolant etc etc etc.

Also they couldn't just say ''Oi pilots listen up! So we've got this Hun figher 'ere, we tested it and it can youtrun, outclimb and outshoot you most of the times. But nothing to worry about.''

I love the early Spitfires, I fly for the RAF 95% of the time, but it is quite undeniable that the 109 was better performer in the Summer '40. The gap shouldn't be as ridiculous as it is now, I'd expect Spitfire to climb like Hurricane Mk.I (Rotol) and have it's top speed while keeping the maneuvrability as it is. Oh yes and the +12lbs. please but give the E-4 correct top speed, too which would pretty much equalize the gap anyway. I know the website and I like the contents but the actual events (especially from the war diaries and pilot's log books) are rather anecdotical and don't really take the initial position in account. That's how you're supposed to do it anyway - dive in, keep your speed up and you'll catch him. There is no way Mk.I pilots could have catched the 109 at co alt co E situations in real life - no way.

Same with the dive - point five in the report. Simply impossible I am afraid, the lad driving the 109 was doing something wrong, something trained LW pilot would not do I suppose.

Just my 2 pence (+VAT as they're hot)

Recoilfx
Mar-28-2012, 11:35
We need to know more about the condition of that captured/crashed 109 and the condition it flew.

I agree that Spit Ia's FM is definitely porked in this game and need to be updated, but the same goes with the 109s not running the best. The gap should be closed, with slight level speed advantage going towards Spit Ias at +12lb boost.

MajorBorris
Mar-28-2012, 11:41
On the other hand I have seen (on tv lol)reports that have the 109 at a decided advantage in combat (speed, guns) with the disadvantge being tactics(raf) endurance(loiter time over the London) Organization(the first modern air defence network)

Im sure it all comes down to the chosen reference materials with some posible game balance(speculation)

Was'nt the RAF mauled when they tried daylight operations over enemy teritory as well?

Of course with no first hand knowledge its bound to be debated by simers forever;)

Peaveywolf
Mar-28-2012, 12:04
Aye, by the sound of it they would have had to replace the broken bits with what they thought to be a similar piece of equipment. It isn't ideal lab testing really.

Doc
Mar-28-2012, 12:18
Spitfire is a terror weapon. :bgsmile: