Il-2:BOS Air Combat AI

[Donathin]

In DD #36 there is a lengthy description of AI air combat algorithms scheduled for BOS. How did that all work out? There is very limited mention in the posts I have read.

[1lokos]

For the first planes created, LaGG-3, BF109, AI do good combat, without "smart" tricks like the rools sequence of il-2'46/CloD.

Stuka tends dogfight like a fighter...if you dont run away will end "kicked". :)

Fw190 AI is completed dumb, with skill bellow ace have "lawn dart" tendency, and in ace rarely shoot at player, and when do is head on, is little more than a "aerial target".

Consider AI a work in progress, they have problems to fly in formation with player and dont execute some orders like attack grounds target.

[Donathin]

For the first planes created, LaGG-3, BF109, AI do good combat, without "smart" tricks like the rools sequence of il-2'46/CloD.

Stuka tends dogfight like a fighter...if you dont run away will end "kicked". :)

Fw190 AI is completed dumb, with skill bellow ace have "lawn dart" tendency, and in ace rarely shoot at player, and when do is head on, is little more than a "aerial target".

Consider AI a work in progress, they have problems to fly in formation with player and dont execute some orders like attack grounds target.

When you mention Il-2: 1946 are you referring to the game with TD mods installed?

[1lokos]

When you mention Il-2: 1946 are you referring to the game with TD mods installed?

No, the original, without TD MOD's.

Sokol1

[heinkill]

For the first planes created, LaGG-3, BF109, AI do good combat, without "smart" tricks like the rools sequence of il-2'46/CloD.

Stuka tends dogfight like a fighter...if you dont run away will end "kicked". :)

Fw190 AI is completed dumb, with skill bellow ace have "lawn dart" tendency, and in ace rarely shoot at player, and when do is head on, is little more than a "aerial target".

Consider AI a work in progress, they have problems to fly in formation with player and dont execute some orders like attack grounds target.

Good summary. But in general I suffer the same frustration with BoS AI as I do with COD AI, namely that the AI rarely if ever is able to get you on the defensive. The only sim able to do that, realistically, was BoBII and I don't understand why it should be so hard, it's just a whole bunch of IF-THEN coding with some random numbers thrown in, right?

:)

H

[ATAG_Colander]

Is a one liner:

IF Pilot_Name = "heinkil" THEN Do_Not_Engage_and_Run_Away

:)

[Donathin]

Good summary. But in general I suffer the same frustration with BoS AI as I do with COD AI, namely that the AI rarely if ever is able to get you on the defensive. The only sim able to do that, realistically, was BoBII and I don't understand why it should be so hard, it's just a whole bunch of IF-THEN coding with some random numbers thrown in, right?

:)

H

Wish it were possible to have person(s) who did AI for BoBII bdg team evaluate Il-2:BOS Air combat AI in depth.

[heinkill]

Wish it were possible to have person(s) who did AI for BoBII bdg team evaluate Il-2:BOS Air combat AI in depth.

That was a great Texan gentlemen with handle 'Buddye' but he is no longer active in flight simming anymore.

Ironically, he did offer his help, voluntarily, to the 1C Maddox team just after CoD launched, and they not only refused him, they told him they did not accept help from 'amateurs'. That crew deserved what happened to them I believe.

H

[SorcererDave]

It's odd really. RoF had some of the best AI I've witnessed in a flight sim. One of many things that didn't translate over to BoS it seems. As a side note a lot of people hold up 1946's AI as being perfect but that's rubbish, frankly. Sure it was hard to beat, but half of that was because it could shoot you with laser accuracy from 600 meters at high deflection. Which is insane. I liked RoF's AI because while it was very challenging at Ace level, it was still capable of making mistakes like occasionally going into a death-spin in the Sopwith Camel, just as many Camel pilots did in real life. Neither did it have the Terminator accuracy of 1946.

[LuseKofte]

BOS 109 AI fly smart against LAGG, if you got them from behind, IL 2 patched up got best ever ai . almost impossible to beat

[Hood]

Haven't flown much against BOS AI but the latest IL2 1946 iteration is good fun albeit cock up even slightly and you're in trouble. No human error element present in some planes.

Hood

[Donathin]

Sounds like the consensus is that BOS Air combat AI implementation does not represent a new benchmark warranting in depth review.

[LuseKofte]

I think BOS AI is different and new experience , AI in other games fly FM less planes it is the planes that are coded to do what they do. They can in many cases over rev and overheat and still fly.
In BOS the AI is the pilot of a plane and has to deal with the same factors as we do, so the pilot is coded to do things with the plane it flies, I have seen several times they flatten out when close to stall, and do not attempt to push any limits.

[Hood]

Sounds like the consensus is that BOS Air combat AI implementation does not represent a new benchmark warranting in depth review.

It's WIP at present I believe. Try it and see what you think - I haven't really had a go at SP yet save for getting unlocks so can't really comment.

Hood

[Donathin]

I think BOS AI is different and new experience , AI in other games fly FM less planes it is the planes that are coded to do what they do. They can in many cases over rev and overheat and still fly.
In BOS the AI is the pilot of a plane and has to deal with the same factors as we do, so the pilot is coded to do things with the plane it flies, I have seen several times they flatten out when close to stall, and do not attempt to push any limits.

So BOS air combat AI implementation represents a new benchmark against which all other flight games must now be measured? I am thinking that some clarity is needed here since I have seen scant mention of the BOS air combat AI implementation in either forum posts or in reviews to date. When I first read DD #36 I figured it was possibly fluff or hype to build interest in EA. In view of subsequent limited comment on AI I thought it appropriate to call attention to that DD entry.

[SorcererDave]

Let's hold our horses for a minute and remember that it took many, many years for the original IL-2 to get competent AI. Not saying BoS's AI will improve, just that it might, given enough time.

[Donathin]

It's WIP at present I believe. Try it and see what you think - I haven't really had a go at SP yet save for getting unlocks so can't really comment.

Hood

There is no demo or "free" trial to date and I cannot bring myself to knowingly provide corporate welfare to a provider who holds me in contempt.

[Donathin]

Let's hold our horses for a minute and remember that it took many, many years for the original IL-2 to get competent AI. Not saying BoS's AI will improve, just that it might, given enough time.

TY

[1lokos]

.... AI implementation represents a new benchmark...

Take as example, I set a QM 2 Yak-1 against 4 He 111 (ACE).

At start of mission, on the merge, the He 111 engage a "combat mode", spreads and became fly like seagulls trying to outmaneuver the player...
The acclaimed "AI use the same FM as player" make AI fly ugly, is as if he needed "flapping wings" to say on air.
Your wingman AI fly for yourself and generally ending "parked" at one bomber six and has its engine damaged...

After some time the bombers engage a "ignore player mode" and resume his target route, when they fly in more convincing bomber formation (with luck with 3 planes), in this phase they don't try more avoid player attacks.

After release bombs they start circulate indefinitely over target area... I think because QM have only 2 or 3 waypoint.

For some reason He 111 (ACE) gunners dont fire in Il-2...

Again the best to say is "Ai is WiP" and hope they invest more time on this...
Although for "casual players" make planes "go boom" the actual AI is more than enough...

The "benchmark" for AI in CFS probably will be forever BoB: WoW, OFF... MOD's. What probable the most players don't know what is.

Sokol1

[Donathin]

Thanks for your input. I am much interested in QM AI implementation since many times that is what I use when time is limited. Il-2:1946 with TD mods is much improved over the original. I do ok 1v1 vs "ace" AI but losing visual on the bogey even for an instant is usually fatal for me.

[Hood]

I cannot bring myself to knowingly provide corporate welfare to a provider who holds me in contempt.

Ah.

You're probably better off sticking to IL2 1946 with HSFX.

Hood

[ChiefRedCloud]

Please correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't there some comments about the rear AI gunners being excellent/sharpshooter gunners but that when the plane was flown by Humans then the AI gunners were sound asleep for the most part?

Chief

[LuseKofte]

Well Donation that is entirely yur choise :)
fr me I can't pass on any ww2 simulator, and that fact made people calling me erhm "not hardcore" I am not sure they are bad people at all. Their reaction might come off unprofessional but by far better than much that came from the community.
Anyway, I only deem a sim for the sim, I really do not have to like anyone. I do not think this community shows itself pleasant when disagreeing, so I really do not expect them to be in any other way.
AI is far from finished, the flyers complain and they try to fix it, by doing so they messed up something else, this is nothing new, it took 12 years to get there in IL 2

[heinkill]

Please correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't there some comments about the rear AI gunners being excellent/sharpshooter gunners but that when the plane was flown by Humans then the AI gunners were sound asleep for the most part?

Chief

Fixed in the last patch. Now you have a couple of commands to wake them up.

- Gunners, fire at will (they will also attack eg ground targets if you are low enough) (r-Alt 1)
- Gunners, return fire at attacking aircraft (r-Alt 2)

Pretty stupid if you ask me - your gunner doesn't fire at the aircraft on your six unless you give him the order? They must have had a problem with gunners attacking friendly AI who happened to accidentally hit blue on blue.

Anyway, now r-Alt 1) has become a part of my takeoff routine in the IL2...wheels up, trim rudder, wake up the gunner...

H

[1lokos]

AI gunners being excellent/sharpshooter gunners

The gunners are sometimes "snipers" but not a il-2'46 level.

- The player need be close < 300 meters.
- Flying straight, like the classical "parked at bomber six".

- The Skuka gunners seems more deadly than others

- The gunners have a slow "ratio of fire", fire a burst then the gun "jam" so the next burst take a time.


- Gunners, fire at will (they will also attack eg ground targets if you are low enough) (r-Alt 1)

That's funny, me IL-2 gunner hit and damage a truck on convoy. :D

EDIT - For one searching easy kills: the Il-2 Sturmovik are "stealth" for (He 111, Sutka, Pe-2) gunners .