What is it I'm hearing of a $10 russian version with grindable A/C?

[hnbdgr]

Does someone know more about this or is it just a rumor?

badger :salute:

[ChiefRedCloud]

This is a HOT topic over at the BoS forums but seriously, I hope it doesn't migrate here. I will post a link when I find it again.

My meager opinion? What they do with their product in other countries, is not my concern. I was interested in buying BoS so I payed what seemed like fair market value (along with everyone else) for my area. No I did not pay $100 (in the beginning) but I did buy the two additional aircraft so it amounts to the same thing ($100).

Chief

[hnbdgr]

I paid for the gold edition too... I don't know if this is true, I can't see the topic on the il2 forums.

One of my concerns is, that if that is true it, would mean the 2x compression maximum limit was put in place with this in mind. You could otherwise just buy a $10 version in russia and autogrind it at 16x (or 8x). I don't see how anyone would care if you let your computer grind "field unlocks" but grinding out $90 worth of stuff is a problem.

So then what it amounts to is that an artificial limitation was put on the players from the western market so that the publisher wouldn't loose revenue from future sales because of their (unconfirmed) future business model.

And it makes you think, why can't they just deactivate the AP when the enemy is near. Simple, easy, elegant and solves all problems...

[heinkill]

I paid for the gold edition too... I don't know if this is true, I can't see the topic on the il2 forums.

One of my concerns is, that if that is true it, would mean the 2x compression maximum limit was put in place with this in mind. You could otherwise just buy a $10 version in russia and autogrind it at 16x (or 8x). I don't see how anyone would care if you let your computer grind "field unlocks" but grinding out $90 worth of stuff is a problem.

So then what it amounts to is that an artificial limitation was put on the players from the western market so that the publisher wouldn't loose revenue from future sales because of their (unconfirmed) future business model.

And it makes you think, why can't they just deactivate the AP when the enemy is near. Simple, easy, elegant and solves all problems...

Yes a 500 rouble DVD version was released, in Russia only, with 2 planes and you can grind for the rest.

This was a 1C decision, for the market for which they hold rights. 777 holds the rights to Europe and the USA and they have decided not to do this.

H

[VO101_Tom]

Here is the link if you want buy it to support the developers :D
http://www.showgames.ru/product_5270.html
(450 rubel is 8.68$ today's exchange rate)

[hnbdgr]

well shiver me whiskers and soil me britches. :) I guess it's in Russian localization only though...?

[theOden]

Will be interesting to see what happens if/when they release a 2nd installment of BoS.
Personally I'm pretty sure we won't be able to label it a block-buster.
Not in the western hemisphere at least.
(still just my opinion for you who gets all hurt when someone is wrong on the internets)
But I might be wrong when all those free-to-players comes throwing $100 bills at them.

Oh well, back to c#dover.

[1lokos]

The only "problem" with this "Start" version is: with it can be fun grind for XP and unlocks, after all will win 6 free aircraft. :)

The SP (online) Campaign was designed for this version.

[VO101_Tom]

I guess it's in Russian localization only though...?
Of course. :devilish:

But it's not only the 777 or 1C decision, the clod also was much cheaper in Russia, they said the Russian law sets a maximum price of the games there (i don't know that this is true, and what is the limit). I think this could be the reason why cheaper so much, and why localized only in Russia...

[Revvin]

Regional prices differences are one thing but when they practically give away BoS for $12 and you can unlock EVERYTHING including the aircraft then I think they should at least unlock everything for those who paid $60 and $100. The only thing the $100 founders get is the 190 and La-5 that can't be unlocked in the Russian version. It shows how much disdain they have for their customers when their community manager Zak posts that its just a simple matter of maths that two planes = $15 hence the Russian version price. Don't be in a rush to complain though the official forums are on a ban fest right now clamping down on dissenting voices, apparently as customers we should "Either suck it up and get over it or be gone." (http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/13251-why-not-let-all-modifications-unlocked-mp/#entry208183)

[Tvrdi]

Of course. :devilish:

But it's not only the 777 or 1C decision, the clod also was much cheaper in Russia, they said the Russian law sets a maximum price of the games there (i don't know that this is true, and what is the limit). I think this could be the reason why cheaper so much, and why localized only in Russia...

hmm Warthunder example doesnt support this...

[hnbdgr]

Well at this point. I'm happy with them to have a cheaper version as long as:

- they have to grind for the actual planes long and hard :devilish:
- we can have 8x compression back among other things

But honestly, I think this is a great lesson for me not to buy another "Early Access" Again. Not BoS specific, just generally. Mea Culpa because I knew what I was spending the money on, but in all honesty I should have waited for a steam sale or something.

[ATAG_Colander]

Well at this point. I'm happy with them to have a cheaper version as long as:

- they have to grind for the actual planes long and hard :devilish:
- we can have 8x compression back among other things

But honestly, I think this is a great lesson for me not to buy another "Early Access" Again. Not BoS specific, just generally. Mea Culpa because I knew what I was spending the money on, but in all honesty I should have waited for a steam sale or something.

Too bad. TF will start selling early 5.0 access for xmass ;)





PS: Just in case, I'm just kidding

[ATAG_Lolsav]

PS: Just in case, I'm just kidding

Just in case for the ones with eagle eyes :-P

[heinkill]

I read somewhere that a Russian Historical Society part finded the project. Bringing cultural history to the masses through a PC game...hence the single player campaign focus.

As investors, if they then want to make the game even more accessible to Russian audiences as part of this goal, good luck to them, say I.

Unless their secret goal was to foster Russian nationalism...

H

[hnbdgr]

I read somewhere that a Russian Historical Society part finded the project. Bringing cultural history to the masses through a PC game...hence the single player campaign focus.

As investors, if they then want to make the game even more accessible to Russian audiences as part of this goal, good luck to them, say I.

Unless their secret goal was to foster Russian nationalism...

H

I think that's Ilya Muromets you're refering to.

http://ilyamuromets.net/

BoS isn't focused on SP at all. Not from a historical or gameplay/enjoyment perspective. Rather SP in BoS is a vehicle for unlocks and a showcase for planes and the FM/DF. that's the way I perceive it.

[hnbdgr]

Too bad. TF will start selling early 5.0 access for xmass ;)

PS: Just in case, I'm just kidding

:) I would make an exception to my newly imposed rule for that! :thumbsup:

[ATAG_Lolsav]

I read somewhere that a Russian Historical Society part finded the project.

http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20121208115833/deusex/en/images/8/8e/All_seeing_eye.jpg

[hnbdgr]

http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20121208115833/deusex/en/images/8/8e/All_seeing_eye.jpg

not quite :) this is them:

13735

http://histrf.ru/ru/rvio

From watching the front page videos with my limited understanding of the russian language, I see a lot of nationalistic, military themes.

[LizLemon]

iirc Russian ministry of culture helped WT in some way too. Might explain the developers love of using the "top secret docs" defense for their fms.

[Bearcat]

I paid for the gold edition too... I don't know if this is true, I can't see the topic on the il2 forums.

One of my concerns is, that if that is true it, would mean the 2x compression maximum limit was put in place with this in mind. You could otherwise just buy a $10 version in russia and autogrind it at 16x (or 8x). I don't see how anyone would care if you let your computer grind "field unlocks" but grinding out $90 worth of stuff is a problem.

So then what it amounts to is that an artificial limitation was put on the players from the western market so that the publisher wouldn't loose revenue from future sales because of their (unconfirmed) future business model.

And it makes you think, why can't they just deactivate the AP when the enemy is near. Simple, easy, elegant and solves all problems...

Hmmm that actually makes a lot of sense.

[Revvin]

I wonder if they are anywhere close to their sales targets? Loft's rant about Metacritic and the notion that the product could be cancelled in December if scores didn't improve and that the developers have said they will talk more about the future of BoS in December makes you wonder if 1C have already told them they will not finance the project further? Hopefully the Russian version will bolster sales enough for them to get the Dserver and FMB out though if the plug did get pulled I wonder how long the master server would stay up to allow us to log in and use the game?

[SorcererDave]

Games being cheaper/having free to play versions in other regions like Russia, eastern Europe, India, South America etc. is nothing new and is established practice in the games industry. In case y'all didn't know that.

[hnbdgr]

Games being cheaper/having free to play versions in other regions like Russia, eastern Europe, India, South America etc. is nothing new and is established practice in the games industry. In case y'all didn't know that.

Yes that's ok with me. Although not strictly true in Europe. Slovakia for instance has a much lower average wage and game prices are pretty much on par with the rest of europe.

My worry is that (leaving the price out of equasion) artificial limitations have been placed on the ones that bought into the game early, because of the company's business model. Of course that is just speculation but it looks to be that way.

[Foul Ole Ron]

Games being cheaper/having free to play versions in other regions like Russia, eastern Europe, India, South America etc. is nothing new and is established practice in the games industry. In case y'all didn't know that.

Nothing particularly wrong with different prices in different markets. Is standard enough. The problem with BOS is that those who spent full whack still have to grind out just about everything the same as those who get the cheap version. That's just not right. If you pay a premium you should be exempt from all that nonsense - especially in a flight sim where unlocks make zero sense to begin with and only get everybody riled up. Another of Comrade Loft's genius ideas

http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/06/06bee24d247c4d7785bc41ea6ba908115c84a7493567d9d2c4 a8924884990b4d.jpg

[Hood]

Does anyone actually know what amount of grinding has to be done to get the planes? Do they then have to grind the rest of the unlocks? Do they have to pay for the FW and La5? Lots of comments flying around and I'm curious as to the actual facts of it.

I don't begrudge anyone a $12 game if they have to spend a lot of time unlocking planes etc. If the current unlocks hadn't been so easy to get I'd probably have paid for them if I could have. Mind you I'm guessing things are quite tough in Russia right now and people just don't have the cash to throw at a game.

Hood

[1lokos]

Does anyone actually know what amount of grinding has to be done to get the planes? Do they then have to grind the rest of the unlocks? Do they have to pay for the FW and La5? Lots of comments flying around and I'm curious as to the actual facts of it.


I guess that half of XP points possible for LaGG-3 unlock the IL-2, based on unlock tree show in DD 85 (?) video.

http://i1320.photobucket.com/albums/u534/bigfattfreddy/BoS/planecard_zps5033a30e.jpg

Field mods, weapons and skins need be unlock.

Premium planes - Fw190 and La5 - is only available for buying, 20$ each.

[Bearcat]

Nothing particularly wrong with different prices in different markets. Is standard enough. The problem with BOS is that those who spent full whack still have to grind out just about everything the same as those who get the cheap version. That's just not right. If you pay a premium you should be exempt from all that nonsense - especially in a flight sim where unlocks make zero sense to begin with and only get everybody riled up. Another of Comrade Loft's genius ideas

http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/06/06bee24d247c4d7785bc41ea6ba908115c84a7493567d9d2c4 a8924884990b4d.jpg

That is just not true. I don't have to grind out a 190.. or an La-5.. or a Stka.. or a Pe-2... or an F-4.. or a Yak.... It is therfe from the jump... From myh understamdinmg that is not the case with the cheap version.

[Foul Ole Ron]

If you want the weapon / skin unlocks you're basically going to be doing the same unlock process as somebody who bought the cheap version. They will get the planes unlocked as a natural process of that while you start with all the planes already unlocked but with no weapon / skins unlocked. The only difference is that they won't get the 190 and La-5. Like I said I don't mind differential market pricing as it's normal but if they're going to adopt a WTish model those who pay a premium shouldn't be forced to wade through a dull campaign to unlock stuff the same way those who pay for the cheaper version do as well. The current approach is just completely illogical and it's no surprise it's caused so much angst. Anybody could have seen it coming and, like custom graphic options, was a bump in the road that could have been avoided so easily but Loft decided to plow right into it at high speed. Major poor design decisions have major ramifications. Their only hope now is to reassess things before it's too late.

[hnbdgr]

If you want the weapon / skin unlocks you're basically going to be doing the same unlock process as somebody who bought the cheap version. They will get the planes unlocked as a natural process of that while you start with all the planes already unlocked but with no weapon / skins unlocked. The only difference is that they won't get the 190 and La-5. Like I said I don't mind differential market pricing as it's normal but if they're going to adopt a WTish model those who pay a premium shouldn't be forced to wade through a dull campaign to unlock stuff the same way those who pay for the cheaper version do as well. The current approach is just completely illogical and it's no surprise it's caused so much angst. Anybody could have seen it coming and, like custom graphic options, was a bump in the road that could have been avoided so easily but Loft decided to plow right into it at high speed. Major poor design decisions have major ramifications. Their only hope now is to reassess things before it's too late.

+1

I just don't understand why? why have the features that are so beneficial have been taken out at release(compression, presets) and the unlocks put in. I could live with the unlocks if there was an immersive campaign with it to make it fun. But what they're doing now (And I gotta laugh through tears here) They are getting paying customers to create immersive campaigns for free for them. Then it's paraded in the update like it's a major addition. It's not - as good as custom campaigns will be they are the work of the community, not something the company made.

So many aspects of this don't make any sense.

[Revvin]

That is just not true. I don't have to grind out a 190.. or an La-5.. or a Stka.. or a Pe-2... or an F-4.. or a Yak.... It is therfe from the jump... From myh understamdinmg that is not the case with the cheap version.

Come on Bearcat are you are being deliberately obtuse? players will already be grinding to get the unlocks and along the way unlock aircraft for free that others paid for.

In my opinion the developers missed an open goal to really create some good feeling with their customers. They could have released the cheap Russian version with the XP grind and then taken away the XP grind for those who paid for the silver or gold versions and created a tiered system. Either that or at least reduce the number of planes unlockable by grinding in the Russian version.

[Foul Ole Ron]

They could have released the cheap Russian version with the XP grind and then taken away the XP grind for those who paid for the silver or gold versions and created a tiered system. Either that or at least reduce the number of planes unlockable by grinding in the Russian version.

Nah they needed the premium payers to bug test the unlocks first after the game went live before and go through the charming experience of repeating dull campaign missions over and over to see if this time the XP was recorded for them. Once those issues were fixed up the $12 guys got to play the bug free version.

[LuseKofte]

The unlock system is there for getting BF3 and other fps players to the game. It is a failure and bad idea. Basically everybody agree on that. But it is also a issue beaten to death and back again. The reason for many tolerating it is simply because there is no alternative. There are no usable WW2 sim out there nor will there be any .
Just tried the 109 K in DCS and boy , either is my install fucked up or the model.

Back to the cheap russian 2 plane deal. It is explained before, they unlock all planes but the 190 and LA-5. And I think it is fair, most Russians do not have the salary western countries have, and hacked games is very common there. I think they want to give a alternative to that

[bongodriver]

Must be your install because the DCS Kurfurst is pretty dam good, so is the Dora and so is the Mustang, I expect nothing less form the Spitfire, thunderbolt and 262, as far as alternative WWII sims goes CloD makes BOS look like a cheap plastic toy.

[LuseKofte]

The Dora works perfectly but the 109 is rubbish, I might take a new go at the control setting and see if I missed something. I like to fly around in those planes

[ATAG_NakedSquirrel]

A quick disclaimer that this post is just a shameless grumpy rant.

1c charged a similar "Russian" price with CloD. I remember I bought the Russian version of CloD for about 10-15 dollars just for the couple months of early access. I remember bitching at Bliss because he sent me to some sketchy Russian site. I thought it was going to be a hoax and they'd just steal my money lol. I wound up buying the English version when it came out on Steam later on. Most of their games are cheaper in general. I remember buying one of the Call of Duty games for around the same price when I lived in the region.

So it's most likely a marketing thing, and the only way they can boost sales in the region.

In my honest opinion though, their marketing/planning team is terrible. They add grinding to the game, but they don't put any thought or effort into it. They just see that other games have grinding, and other games make money, so obviously: grinding = people want play game

Games like Warthunder and World of Tanks put a lot of time and effort into their statistics and cues for grinding for content. They add a lot of bells and whistles that are all very purposeful to keep you grinding and keep you tempted with buying their micro transactions. If you want to watch a really disgusting video on it, check this out (Or just watch the SouthPark Episode Freemium isn't Free):


http://vimeo.com/32161327

It's pretty sick to see a game developer discuss developing a new game and not mention "Fun" as one of the key points. Instead he mentions... acceptable pain? WTF...

Anyhow, my point is that games like Warthunder put time and effort into their grinding system. Heck, the guy making facebook apps puts more thought into how grinding effects his game than BoS. To be fair though... it's a little unfair to compare it BoS to Warthunder, because they are probably shooting for something along the lines of Call of Duty or Battlefield, where you unlock planes and skins instead of guns and perks (I don't think they'll ever add the Warthunder type economy to the game). But either way, all of these other games put thought, time and effort into it. BoS just adds it because... well other games have it... so that's obviously why they play them.

I mean, you wonder why there are more people on 1 CloD server than all of the MP servers in BoS. Why do people pay so much for one plane in DCS? And why do so many people still play Il2 1946?

Grinding obviously. :doh:

[LuseKofte]

The war thunder guys aint too happy about the unlocks either , says those reading their forums. To be honest , 777 have to realize that we are all they got and they need to be a little humble about it. Their effort to get new people into simming has utterly failed, and made them fail getting people already interested with them.

But as I see it, it is there. Take it or leave it. Atm I take it, since public flying in cod do not rock my boat anymore, DCS is little more than a test flying arena, I take the little I can left

[hnbdgr]

A quick disclaimer that this post is just a shameless grumpy rant.

1c charged a similar "Russian" price with CloD. I remember I bought the Russian version of CloD for about 10-15 dollars just for the couple months of early access. I remember bitching at Bliss because he sent me to some sketchy Russian site. I thought it was going to be a hoax and they'd just steal my money lol. I wound up buying the English version when it came out on Steam later on. Most of their games are cheaper in general. I remember buying one of the Call of Duty games for around the same price when I lived in the region.

So it's most likely a marketing thing, and the only way they can boost sales in the region.

In my honest opinion though, their marketing/planning team is terrible. They add grinding to the game, but they don't put any thought or effort into it. They just see that other games have grinding, and other games make money, so obviously: grinding = people want play game

Games like Warthunder and World of Tanks put a lot of time and effort into their statistics and cues for grinding for content. They add a lot of bells and whistles that are all very purposeful to keep you grinding and keep you tempted with buying their micro transactions. If you want to watch a really disgusting video on it, check this out (Or just watch the SouthPark Episode Freemium isn't Free):


http://vimeo.com/32161327

It's pretty sick to see a game developer discuss developing a new game and not mention "Fun" as one of the key points. Instead he mentions... acceptable pain? WTF...

Anyhow, my point is that games like Warthunder put time and effort into their grinding system. Heck, the guy making facebook apps puts more thought into how grinding effects his game than BoS. To be fair though... it's a little unfair to compare it BoS to Warthunder, because they are probably shooting for something along the lines of Call of Duty or Battlefield, where you unlock planes and skins instead of guns and perks (I don't think they'll ever add the Warthunder type economy to the game). But either way, all of these other games put thought, time and effort into it. BoS just adds it because... well other games have it... so that's obviously why they play them.

I mean, you wonder why there are more people on 1 CloD server than all of the MP servers in BoS. Why do people pay so much for one plane in DCS? And why do so many people still play Il2 1946?

Grinding obviously. :doh:

This video made me realize how much we can thank TF and other modders out there for trying to make games fun and not ripping people off.

[Revvin]

The war thunder guys aint too happy about the unlocks either , says those reading their forums. To be honest , 777 have to realize that we are all they got and they need to be a little humble about it. Their effort to get new people into simming has utterly failed, and made them fail getting people already interested with them.

But as I see it, it is there. Take it or leave it. Atm I take it, since public flying in cod do not rock my boat anymore, DCS is little more than a test flying arena, I take the little I can left

I don't think they know how to be humble or admit they made a mistake. The more time has passed and the more criticism they faced instead of thinking "hang on a minute guys are we going down the wrong path here" they just think anyone criticising is a 'hater' and wants them to fail. Instead of listening they silence critics with overbearing and harsh moderation on the forums and attempting to influence metacritic scores with threats of closing down the project.

[bongodriver]

They have taken it too far with all that behaviour now anyway, there is no turning back and being humble for them.

[1lokos]

A curiosity, on BoS Russian forum does not have many posts against Unlocks...

[Injerin]

There shouldn't be grinding or unlocking ANYTHING.<----------------- See the period? especially for a WW2 so called Sim IMO. BOS was structured around a market target such as COD, and WOW, although they are different genre's its still the same market strategy. this is exactly what happens when this type of game structure is introduced.

[thee_oddball]

A curiosity, on BoS Russian forum does not have many posts against Unlocks...

I am not sure if you are being cheeky but out of 1000 people polled only %7.5 said they like the unlocks...
http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/11694-campaign-system-unlocks/

[Injerin]

A quick disclaimer that this post is just a shameless grumpy rant.

1c charged a similar "Russian" price with CloD. I remember I bought the Russian version of CloD for about 10-15 dollars just for the couple months of early access. I remember bitching at Bliss because he sent me to some sketchy Russian site. I thought it was going to be a hoax and they'd just steal my money lol. I wound up buying the English version when it came out on Steam later on. Most of their games are cheaper in general. I remember buying one of the Call of Duty games for around the same price when I lived in the region.

So it's most likely a marketing thing, and the only way they can boost sales in the region.

In my honest opinion though, their marketing/planning team is terrible. They add grinding to the game, but they don't put any thought or effort into it. They just see that other games have grinding, and other games make money, so obviously: grinding = people want play game

Games like Warthunder and World of Tanks put a lot of time and effort into their statistics and cues for grinding for content. They add a lot of bells and whistles that are all very purposeful to keep you grinding and keep you tempted with buying their micro transactions. If you want to watch a really disgusting video on it, check this out (Or just watch the SouthPark Episode Freemium isn't Free):


http://vimeo.com/32161327

It's pretty sick to see a game developer discuss developing a new game and not mention "Fun" as one of the key points. Instead he mentions... acceptable pain? WTF...

Anyhow, my point is that games like Warthunder put time and effort into their grinding system. Heck, the guy making facebook apps puts more thought into how grinding effects his game than BoS. To be fair though... it's a little unfair to compare it BoS to Warthunder, because they are probably shooting for something along the lines of Call of Duty or Battlefield, where you unlock planes and skins instead of guns and perks (I don't think they'll ever add the Warthunder type economy to the game). But either way, all of these other games put thought, time and effort into it. BoS just adds it because... well other games have it... so that's obviously why they play them.

I mean, you wonder why there are more people on 1 CloD server than all of the MP servers in BoS. Why do people pay so much for one plane in DCS? And why do so many people still play Il2 1946?

Grinding obviously. :doh:

Holy.... we finally agree :)

[LuseKofte]

To me I no longer care, I have unlocked the weapon I need for the planes I fly both sides. I use clean white skin and those are the first you unlock. The fuzz it got is based mostly on principles not real problem.
In my point of view Syndicate server entertain several serious flyers and just as dedicated as in cod mp servers

[1lokos]

I am not sure if you are being cheeky but out of 1000 people polled only %7.5 said they like the unlocks...
http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/11694-campaign-system-unlocks/

I mean the Russian community, they did not make a poll on the subject or post complaint. Which does not mean they have enjoyed ... :D

http://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/forum/21-oprosy/

Sokol1

[ATAG_NakedSquirrel]

The war thunder guys aint too happy about the unlocks either , says those reading their forums. To be honest , 777 have to realize that we are all they got and they need to be a little humble about it. Their effort to get new people into simming has utterly failed, and made them fail getting people already interested with them.

But as I see it, it is there. Take it or leave it. Atm I take it, since public flying in cod do not rock my boat anymore, DCS is little more than a test flying arena, I take the little I can left

Well they completely forget how sucessful they were getting new people into RoF by making two of the planes free. Try it, fly it, and people who enjoy will buy more planes, ect. It's also what gets so many people into Warthunder. It's free! Sure, you're going to have a certain ammount of customers who dont spend a dime on the game, but the game is out and available to more far people than would have bothered trying it in the first place just because it's free.

I feel where RoF really failed in sales was charing so much for content. Especially for essential content like maps. They should have made it easier for new customers to buy into the game as time went on. I dont know how many people I've heard looked at the store pricing and decided not to bother with it.

I feel they could have made a lot more money had they made it cheaper and more available to new customers. Instead, you only have the 1% left playing who are hardcore fans.

[Hood]

So much angst over a game.

On Friday there were more playing BOS than on CLOD. I know as I switched from Storm of War to DED expert.

I have no idea why people, me included, buy the DCS planes. At a guess its so that when there is finally a proper environment for it that we have the planes already. As it is I have the D9 and P51 and will get the IX from kickstarter, but it's going to be a long wait until multiplayer is worth playing. DCS sales are key.

I also don't know why people still play IL2:1946. The AI is bitchin' but the rest feels like such a backwards step from CLOD or BOS. Mind you, neither of those games have got some basics right like GUI and settings etc.

For the rest, it's community whinge whinge whinge then they get shouted out and throw their dummies out of their pram. Unlocks? PITA sure, but don't whinge abut it just set the AI at 2x and in 10 hours you have all unlocks for 4 aircraft. All the rest, either suck it up and get on with it or just leave. Or leave like some do but still hang around to voice their opinion. Must be an ego thing.

And for those that are interested, reducing gamma to 0.80 really makes the landscape look nicer.

Hood

[bongodriver]

So much angst over a game.

only this time it justified, they really are making a steaming pile out of BOS and it will be a nail in the coffin for our genre.


On Friday there were more playing BOS than on CLOD. I know as I switched from Storm of War to DED expert.

Friday......I guess all the CloD players went out for the night.


I have no idea why people, me included, buy the DCS planes. At a guess its so that when there is finally a proper environment for it that we have the planes already. As it is I have the D9 and P51 and will get the IX from kickstarter, but it's going to be a long wait until multiplayer is worth playing. DCS sales are key.

Most buy it because they are simulation enthusiasts, more fascinated with the machinery than fantasy historical role play, for me as a real life pilot the full systems modelling is of interest and the terrain is there to provide a horizon, I couldn't give a rats ass if I can crash into a tree or hear a dog barking.


I also don't know why people still play IL2:1946. The AI is bitchin' but the rest feels like such a backwards step from CLOD or BOS. Mind you, neither of those games have got some basics right like GUI and settings etc.

Then I doubt you are any form of flight sim enthusiast, Legacy IL-2 is the benchmark for WWII combat simulation.


For the rest, it's community whinge whinge whinge then they get shouted out and throw their dummies out of their pram. Unlocks? PITA sure, but don't whinge abut it just set the AI at 2x and in 10 hours you have all unlocks for 4 aircraft. All the rest, either suck it up and get on with it or just leave. Or leave like some do but still hang around to voice their opinion. Must be an ego thing.

Subjective and biased, the whingeing is done by the BOS fanatics who cry like babies everytime somebody is less than ecstatic with BOS and the moderators have to do a lot of babysitting over there, 10 hours worth of wasted electricity letting your computer play a game for you is a bit.....pointless.
I think the obligation is only to leave the game....not the internet, no ego thing about it.


And for those that are interested, reducing gamma to 0.80 really makes the landscape look nicer.

Lipstick on a pig.

[gavagai]

I have no idea why people, me included, buy the DCS planes. At a guess its so that when there is finally a proper environment for it that we have the planes already. As it is I have the D9 and P51 and will get the IX from kickstarter, but it's going to be a long wait until multiplayer is worth playing. DCS sales are key.


WTF? Dogfighting with the DCS warbirds is great! DCS is the only WW2 sim with top-notch ffb support, so it's a no-brainer for me (and that is why I rarely fly Cliffs).

[LuseKofte]

Personally I have no interest in P-51, 109 , Spits and such. Turning in circles and try to shoot down each other o without any other goal is in my mind pointless, but I respect the fact that somebody like it . I have bought DCS just to see what it is about , I can afford it and make me being able to sustain objectivity in discussions like this.
BOS is a good sim , regardless of what Bongo and anyone else say, simply because it is. Like cod and DCS it attract some people and looses others.
I fly all 3 + some others, right now I enjoy SOW cod campaign most and random BOS mp sessions second, I am almost never in ATAG server when high altitude spits are present in numbers, you cannot survive in a bomber and I got other things to do but boosting theirs tally.
DCS is only for air race, air acrobatics and dogfights. They all get flaws, and we all like one or two of them.
But yelling out pile of shit to any of them make me smile , this is simply misguided passion and secondary agenda, with personal crap I have no interest in what so ever.
To me this is why my respect to any of these communities are pretty low.

[bongodriver]

DCS is only for air race, air acrobatics and dogfights

yet their principle module does none of those.

[ATAG_Snapper]

i have no idea why people, me included, buy the dcs planes. At a guess its so that when there is finally a proper environment for it that we have the planes already. As it is i have the d9 and p51 and will get the ix from kickstarter, but it's going to be a long wait until multiplayer is worth playing. Dcs sales are key.

In comparison I have A2A's excellent Wings of Power 3 Spitfire MK I/II. As an add on it was reasonably priced, even with the addition cost of their Accusim Upgrade. But I also had to purchase FSX, then the myriad of add-ons ($$$ + $$$) for better ground texture, objects, clouds, weather, mapping, mushrooms, and green peppers. All the levers and buttons work, and performance-wise it flies by the numbers. It made me a Spitfire Authority overnight. :D I find the control assignments with my peripherals a bit wonky, but workable. TrackIR support isn't good, although another $30 or so gets you yet another addon utility that helps it.

Then there's DCS. Everything works. It looks good, runs fine, great with TrackIR. And it has guns. :devilish:

[Hood]

only this time it justified, they really are making a steaming pile out of BOS and it will be a nail in the coffin for our genre.

Friday......I guess all the CloD players went out for the night.

Most buy it because they are simulation enthusiasts, more fascinated with the machinery than fantasy historical role play...

Then I doubt you are any form of flight sim enthusiast, Legacy IL-2 is the benchmark for WWII combat simulation.

... the whingeing is done by the BOS fanatics who cry like babies everytime somebody is less than ecstatic with BOS and the moderators have to do a lot of babysitting over there, 10 hours worth of wasted electricity letting your computer play a game for you is a bit.....pointless.

I think the obligation is only to leave the game....not the internet, no ego thing about it.

Lipstick on a pig.


Folks playing BOS obviously never go out on a Friday.

I can understand people buying the DCS WWII modules to simulate flight simulation, but not the combat element as that is fantasy/historical at the moment.

Legacy is the key word here. It doesn't mean better. IL2 has more variety, superb AI and weather, but for MP purposes everything else is better.

Doubt away though, as playing flight sims 3 nights a week since 2001 doesn't qualify me as an enthusiast.

Now who is being subjective? You got a refund but are still whinging. A few voluble babies = much moderation.

I agree the 10 hours thing is pointless - I had great fun without unlocking stuff. I would much rather not do the unlocks but it seems easier to deal with it than whinge. It opens up possibilities though and it gave me an opportunity to get through Band of Brothers.

Thanks for proving my theory about the ego thing.

Hood

[Hood]

@ Snapper

Guns are important. And bombs. And stuff to blow up or shoot down.

I keep repeating the mantra

"DCS 2.0 and North France, Mark IX and XIV, P47 and Typppphhhhhooooon."

Their map gives me hope that far more possibilities will exist - Rhubarbs, shipping strikes, pre-D-day raids and then all of the ground attack possibilities after that.

I really hope someone develops the G6 onwards plus the A6 and A8. Add in some twin engines stuff and we'll all be in heaven.

Hood

[bongodriver]

I got a refund but wont be contributing on the BOS forums, so there should be less whingeing from the faithful.



Thanks for proving my theory about the ego thing.

No need to thank me, you replied all by yourself.

[Hood]

No need to thank me, you replied all by yourself.

I couldn't have done it without you.

Hood

[bongodriver]

I couldn't have done it without you.

Hood

OK, you are right, without me we wouldn't know how big your ego is.....but I really don't want any credit for it.

[Hood]

OK, you are right, without me we wouldn't know how big your ego is.....but I really don't want any credit for it.

I was only standing on the shoulder of a giant. Ill try and keep your involvement quiet, but folks will probably know where the credit truly lies.

Thanks again.

Hood

[LuseKofte]

I urge you both to remember that you both are passion about the sim genre and what said here only lock a topic.
But it is still a very good example on how the combat sim community works.
Everyone fight each other , rather than get together to a united group and make developers make us a sim we all can agree upon. Instead we are tiny little fragments looking for issues to s´disagree upon

[bongodriver]

I was only standing on the shoulder of a giant. Ill try and keep your involvement quiet, but folks will probably know where the credit truly lies.

Thanks again.

Hood


Just like BOS tries to sit on the shoulders of IL2, yes must keep it hush where the credit really lays, but most people will see straight through it

[Hood]

The only things in common are the name and the accessibility i.e. it works without hassle. I understand why they used the brand name but that made it too easy to expect too much.

IL2 was a phenomenal series that with today's expectations of graphical and FM fidelity just can't be matched nowadays without huge expense.

For better or worse BOS is closest to the original IL2 of any existing games. I hope it'll grow to be a worthy successor but with the community having so much experience I think folks will move to the additional complexity provided by DCS, much like people moved from the Wonder Woman view to full difficulty.

That's my opinion anyway.

Hood

[bongodriver]

Actually I see plenty of threads where people have hassle with constant crashes and bad frame rates.

[Hood]

There are always people with crashes and poor fps. Maybe hardware, maybe software conflicts, maybe driver or software issues etc.

Maybe there are bugs too, like someone I know who couldn't use escape to end flight. I fired up IL2 HSFX 7.1.2 (I think it was) about 3 months ago and had terrible frame rates but I have no idea why.

Hood

[ATAG_NakedSquirrel]

Well my angst comes from my low expectations for BoS not being met.

I didn't have the dreamy expectation it would be the best flight sim since sliced bread, better than 46, CoD, and DCS combined...

The crew is mostly the same as the RoF team, so I expected them to carry on with a similar (but slightly improved) game engine. The FMs are charming, and have a neat feel, but a little twitchy (although they've worked on that considerably since release).

I'm mainly annoyed with the title because they have cut or nerfed features that exist in RoF. Mainly the FMB, Dserver (And servers over 32 players), graphics settings, Mods, Skins. And with their new engine they fail to adress old rendering issues for aircraft skins, distant rendering smoke and other large textures/objects, and of coarse the resource hungry AI and netcode hungry "Master Server".

And they credit the reason for cutting some of these existing features (FMB and Graphics settings in particular) to "The players can't handle it." And maybe they're right because turning off antiailiasing will melt my small squirrel brain. I'll be eating out of a tube and crapping in Depends for the rest of my miserable life after trying to change that mind-boggling crap.

Then, of coarse, they put up a poll on the forums about having SP unlocks part of multiplayer, and regardless of the overwhelming response of "No" from the community, they keep it in the game anyways.

So... my initial though is whatever, maybe these are WIP since this is still pre-alpha (Although somehow also post final release... whatever). I want to try out the new BoS campaign anyways... and I heard they worked on the AI quite a bit so I spool it up and see this cool intro movie. I think to myself "Sweet... this is might actually be pretty cool!"

Mission 1: Fly to this big dumb icon. Realism settings are fixed on Arcade.

Ok whatever, it's the first mission I get it, they need to give you some tutorial missions

Mission 2: Take off and fly to this big dumb icon, or land under another big icon.

Ok x2 speed, I'll get through these pretty quick

Mission 3: (Still can't change realisim settings) Fly to this big icon and shoot down a plane that flies straight and doesn't shoot back.

uhg... x2, x4, x8, x16.... wait why doesn't this thing go past x2?!

Mission 4: Still can't turn off icon or change realism settings. Skip the briefing, big icon...

Alt-F4

....

What happened to the guys who developed the RoF campaign? And who's the programmer with the icon fetish that replaced them?

[thee_oddball]

What happened to the guys who developed the RoF campaign? And who's the programmer with the icon fetish that replaced them?

I believe their new target audience has a rather....short attention span.