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Bentracin
Dec-03-2014, 09:26
I own cliffs of dover but my comp. only will run it well when the graphics are turned way down. I was wondering, does BOS require a lot more comp. power or does it run similar to COD?

theOden
Dec-03-2014, 09:35
Install the free Rise Of Flight and it should give you a fair expectation (same game-engine and this should be labeled RoF1943 instead of IL2).

1lokos
Dec-03-2014, 10:06
Take a look in this thread, maybe you find some PC configuration similar with your computer.

http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/1069-bos-1920x1080-high-settings-hardware/page-1

Bucksnort
Dec-04-2014, 02:40
Be careful with the RoF test. RoF runs smooth as silk for me with graphics pretty much maxed out, but BoS is a stuttering mess that I can't play at all right now even on its lowest graphics settings (2 to 4 fps on the runway).

i5 2320 @ 3.0 GHz 12 GB Ram
AMD 7850 2GB

theOden
Dec-04-2014, 06:31
Be careful with the RoF test. RoF runs smooth as silk for me with graphics pretty much maxed out, but BoS is a stuttering mess that I can't play at all right now even on its lowest graphics settings (2 to 4 fps on the runway).

i5 2320 @ 3.0 GHz 12 GB Ram
AMD 7850 2GB

Ouch, that bad huh?
In that case I'll never recommend RoF test in future

Flanker35M
Dec-12-2014, 01:27
S!

Cliffs of Dover with TF mod runs far better than BoS, even if I use downsampling. And performance is better also online on Cliffs.

LuseKofte
Dec-12-2014, 03:59
Funny enough I had stutters when attacked before in cod, not anymore. But now I got it in BOS. Barely noticeable.
I find BOS from the start smoother, but now I find cod more stable. To me that make no sense.

COD need good GPU, I am not sure about BOS, maybe it need more CPU

I know lot of things changed in @bos graphic wise along the way. ROF are much more pc friendly than COD, so BOS should be the same.
But online COD are atm more stable, but the dev team are working on this. I have no problem with either worth mentioning with my i7 2800 680 gtx

ATAG_NakedSquirrel
Dec-12-2014, 04:03
Be careful with the RoF test. RoF runs smooth as silk for me with graphics pretty much maxed out, but BoS is a stuttering mess that I can't play at all right now even on its lowest graphics settings (2 to 4 fps on the runway).

i5 2320 @ 3.0 GHz 12 GB Ram
AMD 7850 2GB

Even on different graphics settings? (Granted that is a loaded question since BoS only has 4 "settings") BoS added a few features with terrain and clouds, but it added quite a bit of graphic improvement at lower FPS on my end. (I run Nvidia) It may have to do with poor AMD optimization? I think BoS would be a much more graphic friendly game if they gave you control over the features like RoF does, but someone on the project decided not to make them available.

CloD should run decently on lower end machines. Granted, you have to figure out which features to cut and keep. The biggest , easiest cut is the shadow detail. Removing cockpit shadows should give you a pretty good boost in FPS if you're lacking.

LuseKofte
Dec-12-2014, 07:45
I think BOS is sensitive to witch type of GPU you use. I would be careful giving advice against anything . I heard nvidia cards was best suited for cod and bos, and the latter in particular. nvidia updates are supporting BOS

Chivas
Dec-12-2014, 15:18
Nvidia cards have had fewer problems running flight sims for quite sometime. I know I haven't bought an AMD card for many years because of this.

ROF was released relatively finished and optimized, and ran fairly well on most systems. COD was released unfinished and optimized, so ran poorly on most systems, until Team Fusion optimized the game engine.

The new BOS sim has put greater demands on the ROF game engine, but the engine has been steadily optimized. Team Fusion has made even greater strides optimizing the COD game engine. The question is, has BOS made enough money to warrant further development/optimization of ROF/BOS game engine, and if not is there a group of modders willing and able to continue its development. Historically the ROF game engine has never had a large mod crowd, while Oleg's products have had strong mod communities, mostly because the ROF game engines FMB is hard to work with.

Lately on a Friday the first sim update I look for is team Fusions, as IMHO the COD game engine has more upside.

gavagai
Dec-12-2014, 17:56
Mods for the DN engine are limited because many things are encrypted in the exe. Only one (very clever) person succeeded at adjusting a flight model, and he explained that he had almost no idea what he was doing.

|450|Devil
Dec-12-2014, 20:02
In my opinion all flight sims have their pluses and minuses. I have Cliffs of Dover, BOS, ROF and all the DCS modules (and on my study bookcase shelf copies if such games as il2 1946, Pacific Fighters, MS Combat Flight Sim+ addons / etc etc) and get a level of enjoyment out of each. The only limiting factors that I experience are:

1. The limited time I have available to play these sims (real life is a bugger at times)

2. When in MP, the latency / bandwidth limitations of connecting to servers located halfway round the world from me (however, that is more than compensated by living "down under").

If you are looking at the value for money issue, then (after almost three decades of buying and playing computer flight sims) I think I am way way ahead in the "benefit" area.

thee_oddball
Dec-13-2014, 12:07
Nvidia cards have had fewer problems running flight sims for quite sometime. I know I haven't bought an AMD card for many years because of this.

ROF was released relatively finished and optimized, and ran fairly well on most systems. COD was released unfinished and optimized, so ran poorly on most systems, until Team Fusion optimized the game engine.

The new BOS sim has put greater demands on the ROF game engine, but the engine has been steadily optimized. Team Fusion has made even greater strides optimizing the COD game engine. The question is, has BOS made enough money to warrant further development/optimization of ROF/BOS game engine, and if not is there a group of modders willing and able to continue its development. Historically the ROF game engine has never had a large mod crowd, while Oleg's products have had strong mod communities, mostly because the ROF game engines FMB is hard to work with.

Lately on a Friday the first sim update I look for is team Fusions, as IMHO the COD game engine has more upside.


Their sales goal is 200.000 units, let say for argument sake that since the release they have only made 1/8 of there goal which would make 25,000 customers and per the devs %80 of them are off line players which leaves 5000 online players which you could make a conservative estimate of only seeing %5 of them at any given time would translate to me logging in at any given time and finding 250 people playing....as of this post there were 90 people online...

Take unlockGate and all bad PR and unpopular decisions they have made and collectively it has had a very negative impact which the devs seem unwilling to acknowledge. I suspect that once the ME,viewer and Dserver are released they will go into "coast" mode with no more major investment, just a "milking" stage were they will just start selling planes here and there and maps or what ever.

javelina
Dec-13-2014, 13:28
Nvidia cards have had fewer problems running flight sims for quite sometime. I know I haven't bought an AMD card for many years because of this.

ROF was released relatively finished and optimized, and ran fairly well on most systems. COD was released unfinished and optimized, so ran poorly on most systems, until Team Fusion optimized the game engine.

The new BOS sim has put greater demands on the ROF game engine, but the engine has been steadily optimized. Team Fusion has made even greater strides optimizing the COD game engine. The question is, has BOS made enough money to warrant further development/optimization of ROF/BOS game engine, and if not is there a group of modders willing and able to continue its development. Historically the ROF game engine has never had a large mod crowd, while Oleg's products have had strong mod communities, mostly because the ROF game engines FMB is hard to work with.

Lately on a Friday the first sim update I look for is team Fusions, as IMHO the COD game engine has more upside.

Win8.1 + nVidia + CloD (MP) = micro stutters
Win8.1 + nVidia + CloD (SP) = no issues, smooth
Win8.1 + AMD + CloD = no issues, smooth
Win8.1 + nVidia + DCS (all modules) = no issues, butter smooth!
Win8.1 + nVidia + BOS = no issues, smooth

My system specs, noted in my sig

vranac
Dec-13-2014, 15:56
Win8.1 + nVidia + CloD (MP) = micro stutters
Win8.1 + nVidia + CloD (SP) = no issues, smooth
Win8.1 + AMD + CloD = no issues, smooth
Win8.1 + nVidia + DCS (all modules) = no issues, butter smooth!
Win8.1 + nVidia + BOS = no issues, smooth

My system specs, noted in my sig

Win8.1 + nVidia 970 + CloD (MP) = micro stutters

Javelina, new arhitecture card, probably drivers needs to be tweaked more. Looky and Venom also have stutters with 970 and win8 even if card is huge overkill for CloD.
I bet you can run it with DSR 4 with that card.

javelina
Dec-13-2014, 16:04
Win8.1 + nVidia 970 + CloD (MP) = micro stutters

Javelina, new arhitecture card, probably drivers needs to be tweaked more. Looky and Venom also have stutters with 970 and win8 even if card is huge overkill for CloD.
I bet you can run it with DSR 4 with that card.

hey vranac!

I'll have to reach out to Looky and Venom...

I run ArmA3 & DCS with DSR, man does it look awesome!

But, I keep CloD at 1920 x 1080 on my 39" HDTV, because my eyes aren't that good. And I need to spot those "dots" as quickly as possible. :)

Catch you on the next campaign mission there buddy! :thumbsup:

-Jav

Bucksnort
Dec-14-2014, 03:22
Even on different graphics settings? (Granted that is a loaded question since BoS only has 4 "settings") BoS added a few features with terrain and clouds, but it added quite a bit of graphic improvement at lower FPS on my end. (I run Nvidia) It may have to do with poor AMD optimization? I think BoS would be a much more graphic friendly game if they gave you control over the features like RoF does, but someone on the project decided not to make them available.

CloD should run decently on lower end machines. Granted, you have to figure out which features to cut and keep. The biggest , easiest cut is the shadow detail. Removing cockpit shadows should give you a pretty good boost in FPS if you're lacking.

Yeah, I've tried absolutely everything. Been asking for help on the BoS forum and posting screenshots from MSI Afterburner for their gurus, but nothing helps. When they realized my GPU dropped to 35% the moment BoS launched they immediately stopped answering my posts. I'm no graphics performance expert, but some of the other guys on there figured out BoS is hugely underutilizing some AMD GPU's. Other AMD GPU's are fine. But its unique to BoS, as RoF is screaming fast for me. BoS is a slide show. There's another guy on SimHQ with a state of the art AMD CPU and GPU system who can't run BoS either, so its not just me. Both of us bit the dust for some reason when they eliminated Custom Graphics in BoS.

gavagai
Dec-14-2014, 07:35
What is your other hardware? There used to a be a bug in DCS where enabling ffb caused a fps drop. It sounds crazy, but it really happened. Have you tried removing your joystick, pedals, and everything to see if there is a difference?

thee_oddball
Dec-14-2014, 12:13
Yeah, I've tried absolutely everything. Been asking for help on the BoS forum and posting screenshots from MSI Afterburner for their gurus, but nothing helps. When they realized my GPU dropped to 35% the moment BoS launched they immediately stopped answering my posts. I'm no graphics performance expert, but some of the other guys on there figured out BoS is hugely underutilizing some AMD GPU's. Other AMD GPU's are fine. But its unique to BoS, as RoF is screaming fast for me. BoS is a slide show. There's another guy on SimHQ with a state of the art AMD CPU and GPU system who can't run BoS either, so its not just me. Both of us bit the dust for some reason when they eliminated Custom Graphics in BoS.

there was a bizarre issue with CLod when it was first released, people with ATI cards were getting really bad frames it was soon discovered that the intro video was locking their cards at 30fps , once the intro video was deleted all went back to normal.

does your CPU usage drop as well?

Bucksnort
Dec-14-2014, 19:30
What is your other hardware? There used to a be a bug in DCS where enabling ffb caused a fps drop. It sounds crazy, but it really happened. Have you tried removing your joystick, pedals, and everything to see if there is a difference?

Hi Gav,

My controllers are a Thrustmaster T.16000M twisty stick and a CH Pro Throttle (no pedals or ffb stick). But I'll run BoS with my controllers unplugged just to see what happens. Thanks!

Bucksnort
Dec-14-2014, 19:35
there was a bizarre issue with CLod when it was first released, people with ATI cards were getting really bad frames it was soon discovered that the intro video was locking their cards at 30fps , once the intro video was deleted all went back to normal.

does your CPU usage drop as well?

Hi Oddball,

I don't remember the numbers anymore, but they said my CPU was doing fine when BoS launched (i5 2320 @ 3.0 GHz). Plenty of excess RAM also (I've got 12GB - BoS used about 8GB and left 4GB for headroom). It was definitely the GPU that took a nose dive when BoS launched.

Dakpilot
Jan-06-2015, 08:51
May be of help to someone with similar specs, i5 3570 GTX770 2GB

http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/13916-best-graphicsperformance-nvidia/

Cheers Dakpilot

Fulcrum
Jan-06-2015, 09:37
I've found one of the best ways to remove micro-stutters is to either write a script that disables services and programs not needed when CLoD is running or (easier) use "game booster" software that does the same thing. I have some services and applications runing normally that will cause microstutter problems with my system when it ran with a GTX 670 and even now after upgrading to GTX 970...the graphic card wasn't the problem so much as the applications I ran in the background. The only way to remove the microstutters for me was to eliminate the programs which caused it (in my case, the application causing the biggest problems was Rainmeter).

hnbdgr
Jan-06-2015, 11:40
Mods for the DN engine are limited because many things are encrypted in the exe. Only one (very clever) person succeeded at adjusting a flight model, and he explained that he had almost no idea what he was doing.

Gavagai, any chance that clever person has found a way to restore custom graphic presets? that is one of my biggest gripes with BoS right now.

Foul Ole Ron
Jan-06-2015, 18:08
Gavagai, any chance that clever person has found a way to restore custom graphic presets? that is one of my biggest gripes with BoS right now.

Mine too - I've stopped playing because of it. I want to play on ultra but without that totally broken SSAO the devs implemented. I won't be buying anything more from them unless there's more options to turn this crap off. Graphic options are standard in every single PC game of any type. Bucking that trend is just lazy and not a good idea.

RAF74_Buzzsaw
Jan-06-2015, 18:59
Wow, this is the first time I've heard BoS eliminated custom graphics settings... :stunned:

Very strange, not something you'd think a game designer would do in the day and age. :signs6:

Fulcrum
Jan-06-2015, 19:30
Wow, this is the first time I've heard BoS eliminated custom graphics settings... :stunned:

Very strange, not something you'd think a game designer would do in the day and age. :signs6:

It was an odd decision....

Overall I like BOS....the unlock system kinda stinks and some of the developer decisions are definitely questionable but it's still a decent product. That said, CLOD with TF is better...at least for the things that matter to me....YMMV. Personally, I like choice. ...having more air combat games is better than no combat games and every game ever released has flaws....BOS is no different.

7./JG26_SMOKEJUMPER
Feb-11-2015, 01:57
For my PC and the for the clouds in Battle of Stalingrad my hats in the ring for BoS over Cliffs by a large margin.


4770K
GTX770
16gig ram
Maximus Hero VII mobo


I can run BoS on Ultra everything. I've tweaked the ini. file so my clear draw distance on terrain looks full real as much as a video game can.

I can play in a Russian server with 250 ping and be butter smooth.

I can not play Cliffs on all Max. I still can not get rid of the last bit of micro stutter.
It had broken the game for me until the other night when some TS advice helped greatly.

The clouds are not endless in Cliffs like they are in a spectacular fashion in BoS. Truely; BoS has got those clouds nailed better than any flight game I have ever played. So much so I bet its a huge factor in some gamers PC not being able to keep up. Cliffs clouds are pretty bad. They just pop into existence like some round cotton balls with more to simulate bad weather while it's always clear in the distance...... It ruins immersion somewhat and frustrated my buddy so bad aftger coming here from BoS he won't play it.. His PC is beast and Cliffs stutters for him.


For performance and refinement BoS kicks the crap out of Cliffs in every way. It should too it's 5 years newer.


Now if the flight models, damage and tracers where better and people actually played I'd be stoked. Oh and if it wasn't Russia. I find the theatre boring.


Over time as the game grows I'll play it but right now I'm not even logging in.


Why would I when Cliffs has people playing every day. Great crowd and its just plain fun. It's my favorite theatre too.


I wish the all the dudes at BoS would hire all of Team Fusion to fix their game.


Thanks Team Fusion even with the above bad comments your mod is fantastic. There is a shiny new toy out that got me into simming after war thunder entry that if it was a hard copy it would be gathering dust.

I play the better game.

Well done.

Tvrdi
Feb-11-2015, 04:18
Install the free Rise Of Flight and it should give you a fair expectation (same game-engine and this should be labeled RoF1943 instead of IL2).

In fact that is not true since BOs now has locked custom video setings and SSAO is built in all presets and has a huge impact on perfromance. My experience. When I owned BOs it would considerably slow down in MP even on med and CLOD runs great with tweaks from this forum and SweetFx instead of ingame AA.

hnbdgr
Feb-11-2015, 05:37
@SMOKEJUMPER - what LOD values do you use for the BoS ini file? I'd like to compare

@Tvrdi - Recently there's been light at the end of the tunnel :D I read that they are considering at least making SSAO optional in the future. This is a change from their previous "never and that's the end of it" stance. If people badger them with relevant requests long enough they will eventually give in. It's a pity that one has to do it in the first place... but at least they are moving in a positive direction now.

It's tough to compare the 2 games. AA in Cliffs has always been broken. The in-game (is it MSAA or FXAA..? someone please weigh in here..) works, but doesn't get rid of distant shimmering and the top horizontal bar in 109. After years or trying i settled on Sweetfx 2.0 FXAA+ingame AA on 2 + a little bit positive LOD bias in inspector. This makes it finaly fairly pleasant. BoS AA works out of the box.

Overall you can't deny that Cliffs takes a lot more patience and tweaking to get the best out of it.

ATAG_Lolsav
Feb-11-2015, 06:32
The clouds are not endless in Cliffs like they are in a spectacular fashion in BoS. Truely;

Maybe we can improve your experience with clouds. Question: Do you have this?

In "Documents\1C SoftClub\il-2 sturmovik cliffs of dover - MOD\confUser.ini"


[MOD]
ExtendCloudsDistance=yes

You might have to create that section. It came with patch 4.0 that section and it had to be manually edited. Its optional but it allows you to get clouds rendered farther.

No601_Swallow
Feb-11-2015, 06:51
Maybe we can improve your experience with clouds. Question: Do you have this?

In "Documents\1C SoftClub\il-2 sturmovik cliffs of dover - MOD\confUser.ini"


[MOD]
ExtendCloudsDistance=yes

You might have to create that section. It came with patch 4.0 that section and it had to be manually edited. Its optional but it allows you to get clouds rendered farther.

This confUser edit seems to cause a strange array of visual glitches for me and many in my squadron. The gunsight disappears, as do any tracers. Also, we seem to get FPS in single digits. CloD,eh!

[Tangmere boffins theorize that the FPS crash may have something to do with the number of objects in the mission. A well-populated mission seems unplayable with extended clouds. Grrr!]

But clouds and weather have never been a CloD highlight. No one comes to CloD if they want to experience "weather"!

7./JG26_SMOKEJUMPER
Feb-11-2015, 22:29
I agree swallow.

Also having them draw in farther puts me at a spotting disadvantage. They see me I see clouds.

heinkill
Feb-12-2015, 04:26
I think BOS is sensitive to witch type of GPU you use. I would be careful giving advice against anything . I heard nvidia cards was best suited for cod and bos, and the latter in particular. nvidia updates are supporting BOS

Certainly seems that way. I have always used NVidia cards and never had the problems people describe, with either CoD or BoS (or DCS, or anything else). Also, I try to get as much RAM on the GPU as I can afford, as that also seems to help.

CoD unmodded after the first patch (post epilepsy filter etc) ran at 30fps on medium settings except in smoke/clouds, even over London. Nowadays (2 year old ASUS G75V laptop, Core i7 2.4, 8GB RAM, GeForce GTX670m 4GB) the vanilla CoD after second patch runs at 40-60 fps but still slows down in smoke - better with the TF mod of course.

BoS runs in the 40-60 range for me, on high settings and little or no stutter and in my opinion it damn well should, considering there is no complex landscape to draw and very few aircraft or objects draining resources (never more than 30 kites in offline play, no animated water, 30 player limit and no AI aircraft online, few roads, objects only in a bubble around the flightpath).

Where I do occasionally get hiccups is online play, if the mission designer is pushing the limits of the RoF GFX engine by including eg a lot of tanks or ground vehicles to attack. Otherwise it runs smoothly.

H

ATAG_Lolsav
Feb-12-2015, 07:51
I agree swallow.

Also having them draw in farther puts me at a spotting disadvantage. They see me I see clouds.

What about if you spot the contact better against the cloud? Tought of that? :-P

ATAG_Endless
Feb-12-2015, 19:39
IF you look at the size comparison and object number of bos and clod there is no comparison really

The reason you can run BOS on ultra everything is because Bos hardly has even a 1/4 of the objects to render thus more performance

here is the reasons as to why cliffs has a harder performance hit over BOS

much larger landscape + colours to render = performance hit

thousands more buildings to render = performance hit

massive map size = performance hit

100 player limit = performance hit

detailed cockpit = performance hit

interactive cockpits = performance hit

driveable ground objects on some maps = performance hit

major cities to render with an array of colours = performance hit

shipping = performance hit

tens of thousands of trees = performance hit

modelled grass= performance hit

being able to man AAGuns=performance hit

It all adds up

with BOS being a relatively Small Map and without as many trees Buildings and colours to process the devs were given the freedom to add a lot more eye candy without the performance hit

No601_Swallow
Feb-12-2015, 20:45
BoS's map is pretty hefty. I don't have the dimensions to hand, but I think it's larger than CloD's. You'd expect collidable trees to cause a bit of a computational hit. You can argue also about the cities. Personally, I think Stalingrad has more detail than London, but that's just my opinion.

But both sims are of course different. Maybe CloD "spends" its resources on the gorgeous cockpits, while BoS goes for lighting, etc, etc. There's no need to assert one over the other. CloD is absolutely pants in some areas that BoS absolutely nails. On the other hand, BoS hasn't got a tenth of the ambition that CloD has built into its core.

(By the way, I've just had a go at Veteran's latest offline mission - it's a good-un, with the sort of great "multimedia" briefing that we all hoped CloD would support once upon a time.)

7./JG26_SMOKEJUMPER
Feb-13-2015, 00:56
IF you look at the size comparison and object number of bos and clod there is no comparison really

The reason you can run BOS on ultra everything is because Bos hardly has even a 1/4 of the objects to render thus more performance

here is the reasons as to why cliffs has a harder performance hit over BOS

much larger landscape + colours to render = performance hit

thousands more buildings to render = performance hit

massive map size = performance hit

100 player limit = performance hit

detailed cockpit = performance hit

interactive cockpits = performance hit

driveable ground objects on some maps = performance hit

major cities to render with an array of colours = performance hit

shipping = performance hit

tens of thousands of trees = performance hit

modelled grass= performance hit

being able to man AAGuns=performance hit

It all adds up

with BOS being a relatively Small Map and without as many trees Buildings and colours to process the devs were given the freedom to add a lot more eye candy without the performance hit



Sorry buddy, BoS has a HUGE map. It is very possibly larger than the CloD map and it is highly detailed. BoS has moving targets like trains and tanks as well.

If you hit BoS trees you die.

BoS graphically looks better. Stalingrad and every town and city around are there. The buildings are more highly detailed too.

65 players at the moment but I am sure it's supposed to go up. It's still new.


So far BoS is the most photo realistic SIM out right now. I have not played the modern aircraft games yet though. I won't either. WW2 is my bag so I may be a bit inaccurate with that statement.


That said Clod is the better and more fun choice right now. BoS needs a lot more work to be as playable as Clod is but when I do play I just play. I'm not messing with any settings other than figuring out how to push it farther.

CloD on a high end PC still lags a bit for many many people including myself.

Something is not optimized as well as it could be and has been done in BoS.

7./JG26_SMOKEJUMPER
Feb-13-2015, 00:59
BoS's map is pretty hefty. I don't have the dimensions to hand, but I think it's larger than CloD's. You'd expect collidable trees to cause a bit of a computational hit. You can argue also about the cities. Personally, I think Stalingrad has more detail than London, but that's just my opinion.

But both sims are of course different. Maybe CloD "spends" its resources on the gorgeous cockpits, while BoS goes for lighting, etc, etc. There's no need to assert one over the other. CloD is absolutely pants in some areas that BoS absolutely nails. On the other hand, BoS hasn't got a tenth of the ambition that CloD has built into its core.

(By the way, I've just had a go at Veteran's latest offline mission - it's a good-un, with the sort of great "multimedia" briefing that we all hoped CloD would support once upon a time.)




It's not your opinion. Buildings are far more highly detailed in BoS. I didn't find the detail in cockpits to be lax either.


Trying to convince me that a game half a decade older is more cutting edge than a brand new game with a custom purpose built engine is silly.

I am convinced that the old game is better. Otherwise I'd be posting in the BoS forum.

ATAG_Endless
Feb-13-2015, 01:52
Sorry buddy, BoS has a HUGE map. It is very possibly larger than the CloD map and it is highly detailed. BoS has moving targets like trains and tanks as well.

If you hit BoS trees you die.

BoS graphically looks better. Stalingrad and every town and city around are there. The buildings are more highly detailed too.

65 players at the moment but I am sure it's supposed to go up. It's still new.


So far BoS is the most photo realistic SIM out right now. I have not played the modern aircraft games yet though. I won't either. WW2 is my bag so I may be a bit inaccurate with that statement.


That said Clod is the better and more fun choice right now. BoS needs a lot more work to be as playable as Clod is but when I do play I just play. I'm not messing with any settings other than figuring out how to push it farther.

CloD on a high end PC still lags a bit for many many people including myself.

Something is not optimized as well as it could be and has been done in BoS.

Hey guys looks as if the map size was off they are actually quite close

BOS 82340 square kilometres
Clod 82944 square kilometres

Apologies for the miss information

The post wasn't supposed to be a witch is better it was to show hits on performance
the game was made in 2011 and they have come a long way with technology
They are two completely different game engines but beautiful in their own way
The only relatable thing would be having IL2 on it

hnbdgr
Feb-13-2015, 04:44
It's not your opinion. Buildings are far more highly detailed in BoS. I didn't find the detail in cockpits to be lax either.


Trying to convince me that a game half a decade older is more cutting edge than a brand new game with a custom purpose built engine is silly.

I am convinced that the old game is better. Otherwise I'd be posting in the BoS forum.

That's the thing, it is just more fun to play CloD, even with an engine that is slowly being outdated and a myriad of bugs. But that's "at the moment". I have hope that BoS will improve and provide and equally fun experience.

1lokos
Feb-13-2015, 10:18
It's not your opinion. Buildings are far more highly detailed in BoS.

:whacky: I think that my (BoS) game is bugged:

http://s16.postimg.org/68l96o0g1/Bo_SBuilding.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/68l96o0g1/)

:D

LizLemon
Feb-13-2015, 10:41
Yea, the buildings in clod have more polys and higher resolution textures then the ones in bos.

1lokos
Feb-13-2015, 11:02
I think Stalingrad has more detail than London,


True, one thing that kill CloD is the "lack" of details in London:

http://i62.tinypic.com/2e4xavc.gif

hnbdgr
Feb-13-2015, 12:32
just to play the devils advocate here... the buildings in CloD are more detailed, but that's little consolation if I have to run building amount on low and see them render as brown blocks 2km out to squeeze fps out.... so horses for courses, or was it pears for bears? :D

7./JG26_SMOKEJUMPER
Feb-13-2015, 17:14
That's the thing, it is just more fun to play CloD, even with an engine that is slowly being outdated and a myriad of bugs. But that's "at the moment". I have hope that BoS will improve and provide and equally fun experience.


Hell yes. I'm on 8.1 and getting micro stutters still.


This game is so fun I have ordered rudder pedals and I think I'm going to get a small SSD for Windows 7 and Clod only, seriously.

1lokos
Feb-13-2015, 18:13
CloD stutters, bugs... is one thing - details is another. :-P

For example, lack shade in the hands of that clock. :coolio:

But BoS villages (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CsQshuUhro) have dogs barking. ;-)

No601_Swallow
Feb-13-2015, 19:06
True, one thing that kill CloD is the "lack" of details in London:



Sokol, please. That's a pretty ropey parliament. And you can count the number of custom buildings for London on the fingers of, well actually two hands, but that's only because the map builders included several small statues in Trafalgar square, including the artistic achievement known as "The Fourth Plinth".

http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=15549&stc=1

Incidently, the fourth plinth (together with several of the other statues) isn't actually on the map - that screenie of Trafalgar Square - well it looks like a lot of things, but none of them are Trafalgar Square. Likewise, London in game looks nothing like any city I've ever seen. Given that the geography of the place is broadly correct, it's amazing how unlike London it actually is. But at least it's got Senate House. Who needs, oh I don't know, St Paul's Cathedral?

http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=15550&stc=1

At least Stalingrad - whatever you think of the 2-D style of the ruins - looks like the actual place, as you're flying over it.

I'll defend many aspects of CloD to the hilt. It's a work of genius. But the map remains absolute pants.

No601_Swallow
Feb-13-2015, 19:25
Here's the well-known residential area known as The Isle of Dogs and Rotherhithe.

http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=15551&stc=1

But wait! Was it residential? What's that I hear you say? Dock? London had docks?

http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=15552&stc=1

I suppose some might call the CloD screenie full of detail. Others might say it's a lazy random urban texture of nothingness. And I took away the beautiful pastel colouring.

1lokos
Feb-13-2015, 20:04
:coolio:

As I said previous, my (BoS) game must be bugged:

http://s10.postimg.org/bbhp5fvmx/bosd2.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/ga57jyzfp/full/)
photo hosting (http://postimage.org/)

No601_Swallow
Feb-13-2015, 20:52
http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=15555&stc=1

I know my CloD game is bugged...!

:-P

Cassius
Feb-16-2015, 13:13
Look at that. Seems Mr.X could to record a bug with the invisible aircraft - Stealth mode.
In the comments, he notes that stealth mode is switched off as soon as the plane starts to shoot.
From 1:30 in close view.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=La3VFDQmGrI
Nothing terrible ...it happened in early Clod but the contacts disappeared.
The main thing that the developers were able to fix it before they will be fully engaged in the project BoM. :)

No601_Swallow
Feb-16-2015, 14:55
I don't really want to reply to this, because I got a big kick out of Sokol's and my "exchange", and I'd like it to just be there unchanged, for me to smile about. But this is a forum! So.

For me, Sokol's like an old friend (I know he doesn't know me, but I've known about him for some years!) - I've read his stuff in many different forums and he's always seemed fun and fair and very knowledgeable, and I hope our little conversation was - the British English word is "banter" - friendly insults and sarcasm and verbal horse-play but never meant to hurt or insult.

However!

Look, in all seriousness, I don't think anyone intelligent would say that BoS is bug-free. Particularly in MP (online) games, there can be many different causes for graphical problems, some of them are not because of the game, but because of network connection, and so on.

in the same way,just last night my squadron had its weekly CloD "ops" mission, and the mission builder had the entire squadron (about 20 of us) escorting some Blenheims raiding Boulogne. The bombers were at 12000 ft, while my flight was top cover at 16-17000 feet. We had some high (AI) contacts contrailling. And the mission proceeded, and was great. The point is that in CloD, the contrails flicker in and out of vision more or less all the time, at least for us. One moment they're there, the next they're not. Then you move your head (TIR) and the contrails have reappeared again. And they always do. For all of us.

Normally, you'd say it's bugged to hell and CloD's a piece of crap software, hardly fit to be called a game, let alone a sim. However, this is CloD. Firstly, by CloD standards, this isn't bugged to hell. This is almost bug-free! Secondly, the beauty of the game, the gorgeousness of the cockpits, the insane level of detail, the stellar possibilities and the sheer bloody-minded - I'm gonna make this crock of shite work - attitude!!!!... Grrrr-CloD - all of this makes us, - compels us! - to test and push the game and get annoyed by (and stunned by) CloD week after week after week. CloD's brilliant.

Originally this thread was about BoS vs CloD framerates. Sokol and I (and many usual suspects) did the "my bug's bigger than your bug" dance. Which is great fun.

But noone would ever claim either game is perfect. And it'd be a brave simmer who'd say which game's smoother, which game's the Barry White and which game's the James Blunt.

ATAG_Lolsav
Feb-16-2015, 15:45
Very well put Swallow. This is how i like a friendly discussion, where the pros and cons can come up to surface and nobody dies... yet :devilish:

vranac
Feb-16-2015, 17:40
Swallow, Sokol only reacted on some claims that BoS has more detailed buildings and terrain than CloD. That is simply not true because BoS uses textures in a same resolution as old il2 did.
Everywhere, on planes, cockpits, houses, terrain. Even the old il2 has a possibility to use hi-res textures (mods).

And about contrailling disappearing, i have to say I never noticed that. they can warp a bit on a full server ( look like a zig zag lines) but they are not disappearing ( can you check the altitude of that AI's maybe they were set to fly at the border of contraills).
I saw you posts about clouds also and you said all of you have that, but none of my friends have that problems. You have to check your settings, I don't remember which one has to be set on some level to avoid those anomalies, but I can send you my conf.ini if you want to avoid those problems. I'm using pretty old graphic card gtx560 Ti with almost everything maxed out.

I'll tell you another thing, I follow the Russian side of BoS forums and there are multiple game killing bugs that are documented there, something like that one that Cassius posted. Posted by a experienced pilots like Mr.X.
Others are, plane behind you is pointing his nose 30* from you and hitting you, you don't hear any hits on your plane... and no one has ping higher than 100 ms, most of them are around 50 ms.
I fly on ATAG with 180 ms ping.

SorcererDave
Feb-16-2015, 20:26
I can confirm the contrail thing in CloD. I get the exact same problem with smoke trails from burning planes as well. They disappear when I get further away, and then when I get closer again, they reappear but warp from their last position to the current position so it looks kinda like this:

http://i.imgur.com/SJ7Q125.jpg

Donathin
Feb-16-2015, 22:31
Did I miss an aircraft damage modeling comparison between CloD and BoS or is that coming?

ATAG_Lolsav
Feb-16-2015, 23:03
Did I miss an aircraft damage modeling comparison between CloD and BoS or is that coming?

Is that a pot stir?

http://images.sodahead.com/polls/000180977/polls_012_StirThePot_0015_503090_answer_4_xlarge.j peg

:D

keeno
Feb-17-2015, 02:31
Lokos, Swallow,

Nice exchange, very well put. Normally I don't even read these CLoD v BoS debates but I like the way this one panned out. Now for me 2p worth, I've played both since they were first released and I love both like they were my own.

In a nutshell:

CLoD - Lack of weather and number of bugs is a pain but I always come back to playing it because I love the FM/DM and detail and I really hope one day it can become what it was meant to be, (thanks TF). Plus I think the ATAG forum is the best I think I've ever experienced.

BoS - Visually stunning, has the potential to be the future of virtual air combat but at the minute it is a bit thin for content but I'm sure with our support it will filll out nicely.

ok, both good but for different reasons.

Sorted.

No601_Swallow
Feb-17-2015, 03:28
Swallow, Sokol only reacted on some claims that BoS has more detailed buildings and terrain than CloD. That is simply not true because BoS uses textures in a same resolution as old il2 did.
Everywhere, on planes, cockpits, houses, terrain. Even the old il2 has a possibility to use hi-res textures (mods).

And about contrailling disappearing, i have to say I never noticed that. they can warp a bit on a full server ( look like a zig zag lines) but they are not disappearing ( can you check the altitude of that AI's maybe they were set to fly at the border of contraills).
I saw you posts about clouds also and you said all of you have that, but none of my friends have that problems. You have to check your settings, I don't remember which one has to be set on some level to avoid those anomalies, but I can send you my conf.ini if you want to avoid those problems. I'm using pretty old graphic card gtx560 Ti with almost everything maxed out.

I'll tell you another thing, I follow the Russian side of BoS forums and there are multiple game killing bugs that are documented there, something like that one that Cassius posted. Posted by a experienced pilots like Mr.X.
Others are, plane behind you is pointing his nose 30* from you and hitting you, you don't hear any hits on your plane... and no one has ping higher than 100 ms, most of them are around 50 ms.
I fly on ATAG with 180 ms ping.

All interesting stuff! Just like I hope TF keep on with the bug spray, I hope the BoS guys keep squashing BoS's bugs.

As for the buildings, maybe it's an aesthetics thing (which is of course just personal taste). There's something about the layout of CloD villages that doesn't look right to me. I've often wondered about the colour of CloD's roofs (! Yes, I'm that obsessive!) I'm really hoping that the retexturing of the English countryside in TF 5 will be a big leap forward. But don't underestimate the amount of detail in BoS terrain. I think the bump-mapping (Eeek! That's probably not the right word!) is really well done. The terrain is only very rarely flat, and hills and gullies look great at treetop height (Yowser! Trees! :D). The terrain.ini fix really brings this out. (And yes, I also lament the lack of easily adjustable graphics options in BoS. Grrr-BoS!)

I'd love to have a look at your conf.ini (and your confuser.ini). We really want to get the clouds working (we're trying to do Rhubarb/Circus missions in January and CloD summer skies don't really cut it!).

For the contrails, I think the altitudes are fine. Maybe there's something about the way our server's configured?

No601_Swallow
Feb-17-2015, 03:31
http://i.imgur.com/SJ7Q125.jpg

Sourcerer Dave: the Picasso of the new century! :D

Roland
Feb-17-2015, 06:12
For the contrails, I think the altitudes are fine. Maybe there's something about the way our server's configured?

Is CLOD is all. Same with clouds. Weather object look great but bad coding or something so bad fps. Will wait to see what more and more BOS features do to fps. Change gamma to 0.8 and terrain looks better.

Mastiff
Feb-17-2015, 18:02
Is CLOD is all. Same with clouds. Weather object look great but bad coding or something so bad fps. Will wait to see what more and more BOS features do to fps. Change gamma to 0.8 and terrain looks better.

in the Start.cfg file located in the Data folder, change the gamma from .8000 to .6000 and you will like it, also in the same start cfg change the sound from 32 bit to 124, and change true to false. you will much better sounds.

please use notepad++ it will help you by the numbers indicating where to make the changes. http://notepad-plus-plus.org/

follow these steps and you will be golden.

*you might have to do this every time when there is an update.

156141561515616

nacy
Apr-27-2015, 05:29
Bug dserver BOS
10 AI aircraft
4 aircraft Humans


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BB2GN_HkhA&feature=youtu.be

Kling
Apr-27-2015, 06:00
About the contrails in Clod. Contrails IRL usually start at -40°c, roughly 24 000 feet in a ISA condition atmosphere.

Currently contrails in Clod are 2D and not 3d. This can be easily changed to 3d and has been changed to 3d for trial. It looks beautiful! None of us would like to keep the 2d contrails although they look stunning from distance.

BUT

3d contrails eat A LOT more FPS than 2d contrails. Each 3d contrail of smoke, no matter if it is black from fire or white from radiator or exhaust contrails are made up with single sprites of smoke particles. The trick is to add many enough to make it look like a continues line of smoke and not like an intermittent line of separate smoke sprites.. The longer a contrail is the more smoke sprites you will need and the more FPS it will eat and we can all agree that contrails should be visible from far away, including the ground. So now we have a situation where contrails are long AND must be visble from far away, now add 10+ aircraft in formation at contrail height and you can see how much data the game engine suddenly must handle.

Now, if too many smoke effects are present at the same time the game starts acting weirdly and some things disappear or start flickering.
To increase the limit for availabe effects at the same time will be investigated if possible and the subject has been brought up eithin TF. Currently out best coder is busy with the new map ;)
BUT more smoke and better contrails is something TF as well as other players would like to see. This would for example add the possibility to add smoke over cities really far away. Imagine crossing the channel and still over England already see the dark smoke covering the whole sky over Dunkirk for example...

LuseKofte
Apr-27-2015, 06:04
Yes that is a bug! No question about the fact they struggle with their multiplayer and D server, it is one of by biggest concerns regarding this last franchise brand. I choose to ignore the concern and pre ordered BOM anyway. My second concern is their mumbling about not having mods in the game, that is a turnaround .
Have you reported this to BOS site?

nacy
Apr-27-2015, 06:11
Have you reported this to BOS site?

NO
Nacy French no Anglais

Roland
Apr-27-2015, 06:17
Bug dserver BOS
10 AI aircraft
4 aircraft Humans


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BB2GN_HkhA&feature=youtu.be


That would really annoy and give head ache.

I have seen it in old IL2 but only 1 person who had funny connection - always jittery like that.

Think as bug should report. use translate software or google/

LuseKofte
Apr-27-2015, 07:24
Nacy , they got a french forum there. But thank you for giving this as a info. I will see if I can send it further

72sq_Savinio
Apr-29-2015, 06:43
Bug dserver BOS
10 AI aircraft
4 aircraft Humans


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BB2GN_HkhA&feature=youtu.be

Sorry for the OFF TOPIC. :recon: :recon:

Is this video recorded in a mission made by you?

Mysticpuma
Apr-29-2015, 07:04
One of the previous WiP progress videos shows the contrails being tested in 3D at the 4m 56 seconds mark


https://vimeo.com/65968983



About the contrails in Clod. Contrails IRL usually start at -40°c, roughly 24 000 feet in a ISA condition atmosphere.

Currently contrails in Clod are 2D and not 3d. This can be easily changed to 3d and has been changed to 3d for trial. It looks beautiful! None of us would like to keep the 2d contrails although they look stunning from distance.

BUT

3d contrails eat A LOT more FPS than 2d contrails. Each 3d contrail of smoke, no matter if it is black from fire or white from radiator or exhaust contrails are made up with single sprites of smoke particles. The trick is to add many enough to make it look like a continues line of smoke and not like an intermittent line of separate smoke sprites.. The longer a contrail is the more smoke sprites you will need and the more FPS it will eat and we can all agree that contrails should be visible from far away, including the ground. So now we have a situation where contrails are long AND must be visble from far away, now add 10+ aircraft in formation at contrail height and you can see how much data the game engine suddenly must handle.

Now, if too many smoke effects are present at the same time the game starts acting weirdly and some things disappear or start flickering.
To increase the limit for availabe effects at the same time will be investigated if possible and the subject has been brought up eithin TF. Currently out best coder is busy with the new map ;)
BUT more smoke and better contrails is something TF as well as other players would like to see. This would for example add the possibility to add smoke over cities really far away. Imagine crossing the channel and still over England already see the dark smoke covering the whole sky over Dunkirk for example...

thee_oddball
Apr-29-2015, 17:54
Bug dserver BOS
10 AI aircraft
4 aircraft Humans


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BB2GN_HkhA&feature=youtu.be

that looks like a syncing issue, the AI has most likely been shuffled off to another core (like ARMA) and is stalling or the primary thread is choking.

LizLemon
Apr-29-2015, 22:37
that looks like a syncing issue, the AI has most likely been shuffled off to another core (like ARMA) and is stalling or the primary thread is choking.

That is online, I bet its packet loss or issues with the games lag correction. I've seen stuff exactly like that in tons of other games.

72sq_Savinio
Apr-30-2015, 05:47
Sorry for the OFF topic.
If it is a mission made by you try to check in mission TL on Object with editor. I'd the same issue online with our training Dserver hosting my mission(and only with 3player vs 3AI) . In my case it was a mistake in the building logic of AI spawner/activate, more TL on object than necessary. Resolved this and now 15 AI plane, 8-10 player and intense AAA fire (8 Flak 37) all in the same square and Dserver works smooth with a low cost ADSL connection (D:10mb U:800kb).

Now i need to write something in topic.. mmmmm

Well Clod is very nice for something (100player in MP, Cockpit, DM, TeamFusion work and dedition) and BoS for something else (Graphic, sensations during flying, and day after day the work of improvement of the developers). I play both and enjoy both and my personal mindset tells me that two simulators are better than one, always. :thumbsup:

1lokos
Apr-30-2015, 12:19
I play both and enjoy both and my personal mindset tells me that two simulators are better than one, always. :thumbsup:

Wise words. I even play the DCS WWII planes only as "Flight Simulator" - so don't bother with the "Vartundera" visual DM of these planes. :)

Emton
May-02-2015, 01:57
:coolio:

As I said previous, my (BoS) game must be bugged:

http://s10.postimg.org/bbhp5fvmx/bosd2.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/ga57jyzfp/full/)
photo hosting (http://postimage.org/)

I play that map in Red Orchestra 2!