"Spitfires are clown wagons"

[ATAG_Snapper]

OK, the guy is self-described as a noob and he doesn't give a lot of specifics as to where he performed his less-than-exhaustive testing to arrive at this conclusion. In fact, later in this thread Athos asks him for some specifics.

Nonetheless, I got a chuckle reading his post. Hope the OP, Gimpy, joins us on Teamspeak some night! :happy

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=31252

[Dutch]

Hope the OP, Gimpy, joins us on Teamspeak some night! :happy

Good Grief, I Don't! :hatchet :Grin:

[ATAG_Snapper]

Well, last night on ATAG I was flying my Ia (minding my own business, BTW) when I was jumped by two particularly nasty yellow noses. Now, to be honest, it never occurred to me to say, "whats energy again I've got pretty wings and a Merlin remember!"

Instead, I seem to remember bleating out over Teamspeak, "Help! Help! Help! Two 109's are on me!!!! :shocked: ". To repeated responses from my fellow Reds as to where, I replied, "On my 6 o'clock you bloody gits, where else?"

Happily, I was able to twist and turn in my clown-wagon until help arrived and drove them off, but I'd sure like to introduce gimpy117 to a number of you 109-jockeys. :thumbsup:

[Doc]

Don't think I've seen him on TS and really pay no attention to chat until someone points out something in particular.

[ATAG_Torian]

Had to chuckle at that whole thread on 1C. He hasn't been on when it's 2:1 blue v red with the Russians in feeding frenzy mode. Should post the link over at the Sukhoi forum. Let the Russians "educate" him next time they see him on.

[ATAG_Deacon]

My response at 1c:


Well...
Quote:
Also, I do fly on the Atag server. and against other planes


You currently stand at 29 "entries" on ATAG server, with 11 kills + 12 deaths.

I fly the Spit 1a a lot...a whole lot, I fly only on ATAG. Come fly the Spit 1a a bit more on ATAG as I am sure that your impression will change when you go against Mr. X, notafinger, Little D, vit unit, Recoilfx, etc. I could go on with names but it would be pointless.

As you said, you're new and inexperienced, go up vs. an Experten and they will OWN you in the Spit 1a. The only card you hold in the Spit 1a is turning...that's it. It's slow, can't climb to save itself, can't dive, can't do anything but turn.

It really sucks when you've got your throttle & pitch wide open and watch the 109's just climb away and not a damn thing you can do about it. Put your tail between your legs, dive, and start to turn because you're going to die as soon as they hammerhead your ass...

Given that, I have 3 words...YOU GOT LUCKY.

Be quite careful what you post and what kind of flame war you look to start.


:angrymob:

[335th_GRAthos]

Don't be too harsh on him guys, at least he said very early that he is a "newbe".


Besides, who knows, maybe he had found a better petrol station to fill up his Spitfire :runaway:

~S~

[Dutch]

You know it's funny, but I had a strange experience last night myself with a guy in a 109.

I was in the MkI two speed prop job (I know, I know, but I kinda like it!) up at 10,000 or so.

We spotted eachother when he was about 500ft below me on my 10 o'clock and heading 180 to my course. He immediately climbed and turned towards me. I turned into him and kept the height. He tightened and tightened his climbing turn to try to keep his nose pointed at me.
As soon as he was at my height and having lost loads of energy in the climbing turn he carried on trying to turn to get on my 6. Naturally the Spit was doing a better job of turning but he carried on trying to follow until he stalled out and spun down.

Being a total gentleman, I then dived and shot the shit out of him whilst he was spinning. :Grin:

None of the real 109 jocks would've done anything so, ahem..ill advised. I do wonder if he immediately jumped on 1C and complained about the FMs though.....:happy

[[FFCW]Urizen]

Well, last night on ATAG I was flying my Ia (minding my own business, BTW) when I was jumped by two particularly nasty yellow noses. Now, to be honest, it never occurred to me to say, "whats energy again I've got pretty wings and a Merlin remember!"

Instead, I seem to remember bleating out over Teamspeak, "Help! Help! Help! Two 109's are on me!!!! :shocked: ". To repeated responses from my fellow Reds as to where, I replied, "On my 6 o'clock you bloody gits, where else?"

Happily, I was able to twist and turn in my clown-wagon until help arrived and drove them off, but I'd sure like to introduce gimpy117 to a number of you 109-jockeys. :thumbsup:

thatґs my usual reaction too :bgsmile:

[MOHAWK]

Man --I cant wait to use this on the server ? "" Clown Wagons at 3 oclock Low "" all just in fun of course , don't go getting mad when i use it , atleast just one time lem me use it ???

[Fried]

He's back, noticed him on server 1 last night when he commented in in-chat "same BS spitfires". Was just having a quick browse through the banana forums and noticed his latest "opinions" about the spit :Grin:

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=32212

and again

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=32210

Must have a real problem killing spits :bgsmile:

[ATAG_Snapper]

Seems when he tried flying Spits he couldn't even get one off the ground, so it would seem! :bgsmile:

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=32138

[Dutch]

I'm beginning to wonder why this bloke flies the sim at all.

He hates 'vulchers' when he's flying a Spit for red , he hates Spits (clown wagons) when he's flying for blue, he wants ATAG to kick people for 'vulching' at an airfield he doesn't know the name of even though he's just spawned there...........

And the list is growing.

Strikes me that the guy just doesn't like to lose, but when he does it's everyone and everything's fault but his.

I know a few chaps like that IRL. :trigger

[ATAG_Snapper]

Brings to mind that old expression: "Better to let everyone think you're a fool rather than open your mouth and remove all doubt.'. :bgsmile:

[Doc]

I'm beginning to wonder why this bloke flies the sim at all.

He hates 'vulchers' when he's flying a Spit for red , he hates Spits (clown wagons) when he's flying for blue, he wants ATAG to kick people for 'vulching' at an airfield he doesn't know the name of even though he's just spawned there...........

And the list is growing.

Strikes me that the guy just doesn't like to lose, but when he does it's everyone and everything's fault but his.

I know a few chaps like that IRL. :trigger

It's because he's 13 years old.

[ATAG_Knuckles]

I learned my lesson about the Banana forums last week, when for the first time I posted a reply, good lord I'll never do that again (I actually know better)

There fun to read (comics) but I'll keep my opinions over here, where everybody already loves and respects me :bgsmile:

Wouldn't it b e great if on the ATAG server we could change the name of the Spit to "Clown Wagon" ohhhh know what I have an idea for a skin :hpyclp:

[MOHAWK]

Hey Knuckles can you mod your skin so that when the plane takes hits from flak or bullets , that little clown heads pop out of the holes and wave at you ? and make the wheels Big clown shoes with the struts running like legs on takeoff and landindgs, and of course the pilot head will have to have yellow hair and a big red clown nose ?? --just a thought -- or --it might be one of those flash backs you heard about in the 60s-70s ??--- Oh " and lets not forget a couple of big Squeez Horns on the side , for when the canopy is open ??--- Man I think im gonna get in trouble for this one ??.

[Dutch]

It's because he's 13 years old.

Well, If that's true I'll let him off. The onset of the acne years is a terrible thing. :bgsmile:

[Doc]

I really don't know that but it fits. So he gets to wear the shoe.

[ATAG_Knuckles]

@ Mohawk :thumbsup:

BTW you can only get away with that kinda stuff here on ATAG, We know how to tease and have a good time without stepping on toes.


P.S.. I love the "squeeze Horn idea"

[MOHAWK]

Thanks Knuckles :Thats very Good; because No Insult of any kind was or ever or will be (Intened)--I have the utmost Respect for all Planes / Pilots Red or Blue on this server, (Life is to Short to take shit too seriously) to the spit drivers--when flying my 110 ,I Cringe at the sight of you guys......on a side note: I just got my new trackIR5 setup today , and i like it ,worth the move, smoother tracking and a wider tracking capture angle...

[Dutch]

Gimpy again;

Whats with the Spit E retention?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

'What does it take to bounce this aircraft? I bounced a Spit attacking a 110 with a 5000+ ft. E advantage, and he did the old spitfire loop on me and immediately had lead. Lets face it, He entered the same maneuver I followed with, and from a lower energy state ended up in a higher energy state. I wasn't worried about turn fighting with him, because c'mon it's the G.50!...but it seems this isn't isolated. I had a Spit on the edge of stall (actually he did go for a swim later, but i think he just didn't see the water) with his flaps down, yet he was still able to do loops and the like, something I could scarcely follow. I know I have less horsepower, yet I'm about 1,000 pounds or so lighter.

I'm just confused here...and I've noticed this flying the spit myself...what does it take to bleed serious energy from this craft? I've only found myself once stalling other than that pulling off hard turns is a baby frolic.'

Can anyone tell me what the 'old spitfire loop' is please? :bgsmile:

[ATAG_Knuckles]

ya know at this point I cant even come up with something"witty"

Mohawk: your turn :thumbsup:

[ATAG_Deacon]

I think he means HORIZONTAL turn, because there isn't a Spit anywhere on this sim that will do a VERTICAL LOOP :bgsmile:

[Catseye]

I think he means HORIZONTAL turn, because there isn't a Spit anywhere on this sim that will do a VERTICAL LOOP :bgsmile:

Au contraire mon ami.

[ATAG_Deacon]

Au contraire mon ami.

If you can do it from level flight, the way gimpy suggest, I'd love to see it.

[ATAG_EvangelusE]

Beggars belief what some people post! "Anyone who is experienced should be ashamed to fly a Spit" is a cracker, the poster goes on with some reference to such Spit jockeys having a 'boys and boobs' fetish - dear oh dear!

Anyway, I'm puzzled when you say the Spit cannot do a vertical loop unless I have misunderstood what you mean regards the context in doing them.

'Loop and roll off the top' was part of every RAF pilots training but a 'clean roll off the top' is difficult in CloD due to the neg G carb modelling.

[[FFCW]Urizen]

Me luvs me clownwagon. Me na doing impossible sissyfire vertical loops on a dime.
And sissyfire sissy fire .303 uber bullets into tha mighty 109.
Whereґs me pills, yu wanna have one too, tommy?

:angrymob:

[ATAG_Snapper]

There are some disturbing opinions and perspectives increasingly to be found about Spits, Hurries, and 109's at the 1C Forum. Things that fly in the face of literally a half-century of related reading and informal research I've done on the Battle of Britain. Dare to question any of it and you have all sorts of charts, graphs, and yellowed documents thrown at you, professional credentials stated to belittle anyone else's amateur enthusiast stature, quickly followed by the challenge to spend your fine summer days researching your own yellowed tomes to locate and scan that which you already know to be a fact.

To top it off, some of these guys don't even OWN Cliffs of Dover, much less fly it. (Correction: one of these "experts" admitted to having just bought it, flew it for 14 minutes -- long enough to discredit the Spitfire's flight modelling in a dive :uhoh )

Trouble is, these "experts" seem to be getting their voices heard. Note the recent down tuning of the RAF fighters in the latest patch, yet failure to model 12 lbs boost/100 octane in the Spitfire and Hurricane Mark 1's. Note their input, as well, in the "Bug Tracker Report".

It's a shame. Cliffs of Dover has such excellent potential to be such a ground-breaking simulation of The Battle of Britain. But it won't be. Not if these clowns have their way. And they ARE getting it!

[ATAG_Knuckles]

Funny that you mention all this: I really dont recall this type of heated arguments in other sims. Aces High, Fighter Ace, Micro FS X

Question: did this happen in IL II or 1946, \

Funny I had IL II and all the after add on's but never went multiplayer, dont know why?

[Dutch]

Funny that you mention all this: I really dont recall this type of heated arguments in other sims. Aces High, Fighter Ace, Micro FS X

Question: did this happen in IL II or 1946?

It sure did. To a ridiculous extent. The result of which was all the different 'modpacks' that were available for old IL2, not many of which could fly online with eachother, Ultrapack, AAA, HSFX et al.

I gave up trying to make sense of it all and stuck with 'vanilla' IL2 1946 with the Daedelus team's 'official' update patches in the end.

These kind of FM arguments can end up being very destructive, IMO.

[ATAG_Septic]

There are some disturbing opinions and perspectives increasingly to be found about Spits, Hurries, and 109's at the 1C Forum. Things that fly in the face of literally a half-century of related reading and informal research I've done on the Battle of Britain. Dare to question any of it and you have all sorts of charts, graphs, and yellowed documents thrown at you, professional credentials stated to belittle anyone else's amateur enthusiast stature, quickly followed by the challenge to spend your fine summer days researching your own yellowed tomes to locate and scan that which you already know to be a fact.

To top it off, some of these guys don't even OWN Cliffs of Dover, much less fly it. (Correction: one of these "experts" admitted to having just bought it, flew it for 14 minutes -- long enough to discredit the Spitfire's flight modelling in a dive :uhoh )

Trouble is, these "experts" seem to be getting their voices heard. Note the recent down tuning of the RAF fighters in the latest patch, yet failure to model 12 lbs boost/100 octane in the Spitfire and Hurricane Mark 1's. Note their input, as well, in the "Bug Tracker Report".

It's a shame. Cliffs of Dover has such excellent potential to be such a ground-breaking simulation of The Battle of Britain. But it won't be. Not if these clowns have their way. And they ARE getting it!

My thoughts entirely old chum. You summarise well the horrible atmosphere at 1c and depressingly the outcome.

It would be great to post this at 1c but atmosphere tends to dominate the attitude and I fear it would not be received well. Shame.

Cheers,

Septic.

[MADDMANN]

I have been seeing this thread for a while about the glory and might the "clown wagon" has........ :)

I put forth a challenge (to be accepted at your will)
To all and any skinners who are in this forum who find this thread (a good jab)
Lets see the best "clown wagon" skin you can create!!!

Red nose and all gents, scary or old school. What do you say gents? A nice "Clown" skin for the "dreaded" Spitfire!!!

I cant skin for the life of me but i do know a silly idea when i think it up.

I await your reply.
~S~

[ATAG_Snapper]

Hahaha! Love the idea. I won't pick up the challenge, but I'd love to see the skins. :bgsmile:

[ATAG_Knuckles]

Beat ya to it with the skins, look at posts 16,17 Mohawk's got it down

[Fried]

That would be great fun and I would happily fly around with it on, especially if he turned up on ATAG again :bgsmile:

[Dutch]

This is Knuckles;

741

This is me;

742

What a pair! :bgsmile:

[ATAG_Knuckles]

Speaking of "Full Goose Bozo" you know we have milked this subject all day long,

sorry Bliss is missing all this he would be SO PROUD :hiding:

where's Septic anyway ??????

[Dutch]

where's Septic anyway ??????

If he's got any sense, he's in bed. It's 2.00am over here. I of course have no sense at all, so I'm still up.:blush!:

[ATAG_Knuckles]

you know whats funny, just went to 1C and Gimpy's thread now has 11 pages and it all serious arguments

Now thats funny: they dont have any idea what were doing over here do they ?:hpyclp:

[Dutch]

Honestly mate, I approach that forum like I'd approach a geyser that's about to blow, but you're not quite sure when.

You know, someone challenges you to actually look down the hole, and you go 'OK!', so you run in, look down the hole, run away and then say to your Mrs. 'So what's for tea, my dearest?', have you seen anything you'd like to buy lately?'

Terrible place, I do declare. :happy

[Dutch]

I was wrong! Septic is still up!

His middle name is erm.... nosferatu. :Grin:

[[FFCW]Urizen]

This particular VIP canґt even admit, that he must have clearly mad a mistake somewhere, i mean, seriously, he canґt even catch a hurri :shocked: ? A totally nerfed down Hurricane :shocked: :shocked: ?
I guess dutch is right, he should pick some other game :thumbsup: .

[ATAG_Deacon]

Urizen;13016']This particular VIP canґt even admit, that he must have clearly mad a mistake somewhere, i mean, seriously, he canґt even catch a hurri :shocked: ? A totally nerfed down Hurricane :shocked: :shocked: ?
I guess dutch is right, he should pick some other game :thumbsup: .

I've not seen that particular Frenchman on ATAG for quite some time...hmmmm. ;)

[[FFCW]Urizen]

idr which server it was, ravenhost or repka, i just heard on comms "he again, here starts the flamewar" :bgsmile: :runaway:

[Catseye]

If you can do it from level flight, the way gimpy suggest, I'd love to see it.

Hi Deacon,
I didn't see the circumstance of gimpy's loop but here's a trk file of 2.

Cheers

[ATAG_Deacon]

Thanks Cat!

In my minds eye, the way Gimpy is describing a "loop" is following a hard defensive turn when bounced...I cannot get a Spit to loop after being bounced, you bleed too much speed in the defensive turn.

Sequence:

Gimpy bounces Spit...

Spit turns hard to avoid Gimpy

Gimpy climbs away after unsuccessful bounce

Spit climbs above & loops in behind Gimpy shooting the hapless Gimpy down. (according to Gimpy)

Sorry to say, the Spit just will not do that. Can the Spit loop, yes so long as it has the energy to do so. Will it loop in the scenario above, no way.

The only way Gimpy gets caught in the above scenario is if he turns with the Spit bleeding his energy built up from the bounce...and I am afraid that is what is going on. He is not flying the 109 properly or to it's BnZ advantage. Instead of owning up to this the Spit becomes a "clown wagon".

I guess my thoughts were not clear on the subject.

[ATAG_Snapper]

Who knows?

Based on his earlier posts, I can't give Gimpy a whole lot of credence to whatever he says. There's a whole lot of "alternate history" going on in some of the 1C threads right now -- and Gimpy is right in the thick of it.

[Herr-B]

It's because he's 13 years old.

He's actually 21 next Monday (28 May).

But that'll be his parents fault for having sex 21ѕ years ago.

If I die I know it's because I cocked up, whether it's because I've spun too close to the ground (likely), horrendous landing (just as likely), shot down (less likely but still happens), run out of fuel (err, probably the most likely), or a mid-air collision (only once and thought I'd just missed until I noticed a lack of starboard wing!) I know that there is always something different I could have done, should have done, but probably won't do next time either.745

[Catseye]

Thanks Cat!

In my minds eye, the way Gimpy is describing a "loop" is following a hard defensive turn when bounced...I cannot get a Spit to loop after being bounced, you bleed too much speed in the defensive turn.

Sequence:

Gimpy bounces Spit...

Spit turns hard to avoid Gimpy

Gimpy climbs away after unsuccessful bounce

Spit climbs above & loops in behind Gimpy shooting the hapless Gimpy down. (according to Gimpy)

Sorry to say, the Spit just will not do that. Can the Spit loop, yes so long as it has the energy to do so. Will it loop in the scenario above, no way.

The only way Gimpy gets caught in the above scenario is if he turns with the Spit bleeding his energy built up from the bounce...and I am afraid that is what is going on. He is not flying the 109 properly or to it's BnZ advantage. Instead of owning up to this the Spit becomes a "clown wagon".

I guess my thoughts were not clear on the subject.

Ok, got it.
Some things come to mind if the Spit did what Gimpy stated:
Gimpy did not have a lot of E.
Gimpy gave up his E during the closure.
Spitfire didn't bleed too much E at the break. If it was moving at 300 mph took a quick snap break and immediate climb and barrel role I could see that. The question I have is - Does he really mean "Loop" or is he speaking of "barrel roll"?

I think the barrel roll is very do-able with the right conditions.

Too many variables and not enough specifics added to a noob makes this all conjecture. :)

Cheers.