Macchi 202 Folgore :)

[LuseKofte]

http://hyperscale.com/features/2002/images/c202ir_1.jpg

http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/13538-cosy-reading-room/

I am happy to see the ambitions still there :)

[ATAG_Lolsav]

So... they go Mediterrenean now? There wasnt Machis in Russia scenario, was there?

[hnbdgr]

My guess is this will come out at £14.99 and/or grindable. Maybe I'll get to it in a year or two:)

[1lokos]

So... they go Mediterrenean now? There wasnt Machis in Russia scenario, was there?

No, this one is for Stalingrad area (Wikipedia): ;)

http://i39.tinypic.com/264mcnb.jpg


In May 1942, the 22° Gruppo Caccia, that had reached its operational limit, was replaced by the newly formed 21° Gruppo Autonomo C.T. composed of 356ª, 382ª, 361ª and 386ª Squadriglia. This unit, commanded by Maggiore (Major) Ettore Foschini, brought new C.202s and 18 new Macchi C.200 fighters.[43] In August 1942, at the beginning of the Soviet offensive they were deployed at the Stalino, Lughansk, Kantemirovka and Millerovo airfields, fighting against the Red Army positions on the east Don river during October–November 1942. the fighters operated in adverse climate conditions (40° to 45° below zero and heavy snow storms) while under heavy Russian fighter-bomber harassment.[citation needed]Under these circumstances, 21° Gruppo - which had 17 C.202s on strength - was rather moderate in deploying the C.202s. Only a total of 17 missions were flown with Folgores on the Eastern Front during a four-month period.[44] The C.202s were forced to escort C.200s alongside Fiat BR.20Ms and Caproni Ca.311s in attacks against Soviet columns, while facing great numbers of new VVS' fighters. The C.202s also escorted CANT Z.1007bis in reconnaissance missions[citation needed] and German transport aircraft. One of these missions was the escort to Junkers Ju 52s flying to Stalingrad, on 11 December 1942, during which Tenente Pilota Gino Lionello was shot down and had to bail out from his Folgore.[44]

After the abandonment of advanced airfields between December 1942 - January 1943 at Voroshilovgrad, Stalino and Tscerkow, the Italian air units operated in defensive actions against a more potent Soviet air offensive, mainly using Ilyushin IL-2s Shturmoviks and Petlyakov Pe-2s. In March 1943, the Corpo Aereo Italiano was detached to Odessa airbase joining Reggiane Re. 2000 Héja I of the Hungarian MKHL 1 and 2/1 Vadászszázad and IAR 80C and Bf 109E/G of Romanian FARR 4 and 5 detached at same base and Saki (Crimea) in a holding action against the V-Vs armada of 2,000 aircraft, at a time when Axis air forces only countered with 300 operative aircraft with very small quantities of fuel, munitions and equipment.[citation needed]

The last effective operation of Corpo Aereo Italiano in Russia occurred on 17 January 1943, when one mixed formation of 25 surviving Macchi fighters (out of a remaining total of 30 C.200s and nine C.202s) attacked Red Army armored and motorized infantry columns to support German and Italian units encircled in Millerovo.



Sokol1

[ATAG_Colander]

I guess they do listen to some customer input:
http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/729-poll-what-non-german-fighter-would-you-see-il-2-bos/

[LuseKofte]

IF they gonna keep alive, they need to expand. Personally I hope for Kursk and a HS 129 and P-39

If the Folgore goes for money I buy it, I do not think I will use it too often. I simply consider fighter duty as a waist of time, but I am curious and the Macchi 202 and 205 is the most beautiful plane ever built

[LuseKofte]

So... they go Mediterrenean now? There wasnt Machis in Russia scenario, was there?

Personally I think COD is closer to a Mediterrenean theatre with its JU 88 , and Hurricane´s , and my hopes are it will. As many of you guys know I prefer Bos atm, but that does not mean I like cod less. I say med´s for cod and BOS for Russia

[Mudcat]

I guess they do listen to some customer input:
http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/729-poll-what-non-german-fighter-would-you-see-il-2-bos/

only when it coincides with exactly what they had planned anyway :-P

[ChiefRedCloud]

From BoS Forums ....

Chief

[LuseKofte]

only when it coincides with exactly what they had planned anyway :-P

They cannot win can they, no matter what they do, there will always be someone doing that, won´t it?

[SorcererDave]

I wonder if they'll add a Lend-lease Hurricane at somepoint. I'd love to see how it compares to our one in CloD. More likely they'll add a P-40 or P-39 for the American audience though.

[LuseKofte]

Personally I do not think so, I think they will go ahead in time. And they know that will only trigger another cod vs bos debate .

[Mudcat]

They cannot win can they, no matter what they do, there will always be someone doing that, won´t it?

Relax, it was a joke. I'm no 777 hater, If I was I probably wouldn't own every thing available in RoF, BoS and had gotten IM the first day it was available.

The other big question here, is that if they are going to do a 202 then what's coming on the Russian side, I-16 I guess?

[LuseKofte]

I actually understood it, I just had to point out what they are working against. I just forgot the smiley behind it.
I kind of like todays status here and over at bos site, the negative stuff are mostly objective and without aggression . There are no doubts still a long way ahead for this to be complete and in an acceptable final status.

[Mudcat]

aye, they do sorta bring it on themselves though a bit, sorta like the announcement for RoF United, no need to put in there that some people were jerks about it, just seemed like a pointless jab to me, but what do I know :recon:

I'm curious as to where they have the data for the plane. I could be wrong but I thought the Italians went to great lengths to make sure to destroy any 202's that might get captured.

Interesting short read on the 202 here.

http://airandspace.si.edu/collections/artifact.cfm?object=nasm_A19600332000

Reading through the long description there, makes it seems like it would be some guesswork to figure out what was in it at Stalingrad. They aren't even exactly sure what they have there...

Would actually enjoy flying that if/when it does get added

[LuseKofte]

I know, the 202 is tricky. But it is a user armed light powerful plane and suit well against the yak and LA-5. It is actually a fighter I might like. It is sure a beauty.
I think you can build a pretty accurate FM just by interviews of pilots , I am sure there are some out there.

[thee_oddball]

I guess they do listen to some customer input:
http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/729-poll-what-non-german-fighter-would-you-see-il-2-bos/

what-non-german-fighter-would-you-see-il-2-bos...and then you are only given 2 choices.....that's not what I call listening to customer "input"




They cannot win can they, no matter what they do, there will always be someone doing that, won´t it?

they cannot win when they keep shooting themselves in the foot....I love the 202/5 planes but in a list of priorities concerning aircraft that flew in the BoS the 202 should be almost the bottom....17 planes? and that is what 777 will be the next model?? do you know that the number of lend-lease aircraft from 42-44 number in the thousands which include bombers,transports and fighters...the next plane should be any Russian fight that was there in numbers or the hurricane,P40C/E and the P-39....


The 126th IAP was re-equipped with the P-40E in May 1942. Located in the deep rear after the Germans' retreat, it combined its training on the Kittyhawk with its air defense mission of Moscow and environs in the quiet situation until the end of August. At the end of August it was also tasked to provide escort to government aircraft flying along the route from Moscow to Arzamas to Kuybyshev .

Subsequently the regiment was transferred to a more dangerous sector of the front-near Stalingrad. The 126th IAP, formed on TOE 015/174, but having a total of 18 aircraft (NN 818-821, 830, 841, 842, 844, 979, 1014, 1018, 1027-32, and 1104 ) and 50 percent of its maintenance personnel strength, arrived at the 268th Fighter Air Division (IAD) on 28 August and was stationed at the Solodovka airfield.

The intensity of the aerial combat here was so fierce that even the experienced and well-trained regiment was burned up like a match in this hell in just a week. It was not so bad at first - on 29 August the pilots shot down a Bf-109, Ju-88, and FW-189 at the cost of a single P-40E; on 30 August-5 Bf-109Fs and 5 He-111s with the loss of 3 P-40Es; on the 31st-10 Bf-109Fs, 1 He-111, and 1 Ju-87 for 2 destroyed and 2 damaged P-40Es. But the crossover came on 5 September - it cost 4 Kittyhawks (two destroyed in combat and two in a mid-air collision) for 2 Bf-109Fs and 1 Ju-88. The regiment commander, Major V. M. Naydenko, was shot down and seriously wounded on this day. The four surviving aircraft were assigned to combat patrol over their own airfield.

The regiment flew a total of 194 aircraft sorties by 13 September 1942, all of which (rare occasion!) were combat sorties that involved engagement with the enemy. The greater share (163 combat sorties) was to escort Il-2 Shturmoviks. The pilots of 126 IAP conducted 29 group and 24 individual aerial engagements in which 36 enemy aircraft were destroyed (23 Bf-109F, 6 He-111, 3 Ju-88, 1 Bf-110, 1 Ju-87, 1 Hs-123, and 1 FW-189). The regiment lost 13 aircraft, 7 pilots did not return from combat missions, and 5 were wounded. After withdrawal to the rear on 18 September 1942, 126 IAP was re-equipped with the La-5 and subsequently fought only in Soviet-manufactured aircraft.

The employment of the Tomahawk and Kittyhawk in the PVO role grew continuously both in numbers and in geographical distribution. The 768th IAP (122d IAD PVO) began combat air patrols over Murmansk in April 1942, the 481st IAP PVO over Baku in November, 102d IAD PVO over Stalingrad, and the total number of P-40Es reached 70 and Tomahawks 33.


It is a little known fact that the Tomahawks and Kittyhawks with red stars participated in all the decisive battles: the battle for Moscow, at Stalingrad, the defense of Leningrad, in the Kuban, at the Kursk bulge, and beyond to the liberation of eastern Prussia. It is true that nowhere (except in the far north) did their numbers achieve a critical level (as a rule, not more than 1-2 regiments in an air army) and therefore they did not have a deciding influence on the outcome of any battle (as did the Airacobra, for example).

http://lend-lease.airforce.ru/english/articles/romanenko/p-40/


In early June 1942 a whole fighter division equipped entirely with Hurricanes, 235 IAD became part of 8 VA (8th Air Army). The unit was commanded by Lt. Col. I. D. Podgomiy. It comprised 46, 191, and 436 IAP. On 25 June it was joined by 180 IAP equipped with 20 Hurricanes. All those regiments, apart from 191 IAP, have been trained at Ivanovo. In order to facilitate rapid conversion to the British equipment, 3 British pilots and 16 fitters were present at Ivanovo. When moving to the front line, the division was largely equipped with aircraft fitted with the Soviet armament, or Mk IIC aircraft. It entered combat north of Kharkov. During the first five days of fighting the entire unit claimed 29 aircraft shot down. The largest number of victories was claimed by 436 IAP (20 kills). it was commanded by Major A. B. Panov. Apart from air combats and air defence, the regiments were also tasked with ground attack duties. During these missions Hurricane caused substantial losses among the enemy, as well as sustaining severe losses themselves. On 16 July 12 Hurricanes of 191 IAP destroyed a motorised column on the road Velikiy Burluk?Noviy Oskol. In heavy fighting, with constantly changing unprepared landing grounds, the Hurricanes started to wear out rapidly. For example 436 IAP changed airfields no less than 12 times within 2 months. On 22 July 1942 two surviving Hurricanes of 191 IAP were handed over to a neighbouring unit. Two days later also 46 and 180 IAP were sent back for replenishment at Ivanovo. All the surviving and serviceable aircraft were assembled in 436 IAP. On 1 August 1942 8 VA had a total of 11 Hurricanes, of which only 3 combat-ready. During the rapid retreat of the Russians, all remaining Hurricanes were destroyed by own ground personnel at Kalch-on-Don airfield. Between 13 June and 30 July 1942 pilots of 235 IAD claimed 69 enemy aircraft destroyed. During that period the regiments lost 54 Hurricanes in combat and in accidents.

[Bearcat]

I wonder if they'll add a Lend-lease Hurricane at somepoint. I'd love to see how it compares to our one in CloD. More likely they'll add a P-40 or P-39 for the American audience though.

I'd love to see any one of those planes under the BoS engine. I'd really like to see the Hurri... just to compare it to CoD's.. but either of the planes you mentioned would be a welcome edition.. I am wondering if we will see a rash of upgraded models that we have to grind for. 109K La-5N, Yak-3 etc..

[Bucksnort]

I can't believe 1CGS is expending resources on building more planes when they should have their nose in a book trying to figure out how to build a decent SP campaign!

[Dakpilot]

There was also a poll by Dev's for which lend lease A/C between Hurricane and P-40 which the P-40 won convincingly, The 202 was part of Axis non German A/C poll

Whist there are many places for BoS Dev's to use recourses the 3D modellers need to be kept busy and I don't think they would have much impact on changing/adding to new campaign features

Cheers Dakpilot

[Bucksnort]

Sure they can. I assume they can read and write. They could be doing the background research and handing it off to someone else to write the code. I doubt 1CGS has become suddenly incapable of writing code.

I just retired as a systems integration manager and came up as an assembler language programmer. We often had to wear many hats to meet team goals. I can't believe that 1CGS is suddenly unable to create a real campaign. They're playing possum if they claim they can't.

[LuseKofte]

what-non-german-fighter-would-you-see-il-2-bos...and then you are only given 2 choices.....that's not what I call listening to customer "input"





they cannot win when they keep shooting themselves in the foot....I love the 202/5 planes but in a list of priorities concerning aircraft that flew in the BoS the 202 should be almost the bottom....17 planes? and that is what 777 will be the next model?? do you know that the number of lend-lease aircraft from 42-44 number in the thousands which include bombers,transports and fighters...the next plane should be any Russian fight that was there in numbers or the hurricane,P40C/E and the P-39....



http://lend-lease.airforce.ru/english/articles/romanenko/p-40/

You got serious issues with a game??? do not involve me . I am just in it for the fun

[SorcererDave]

There was also a poll by Dev's for which lend lease A/C between Hurricane and P-40 which the P-40 won convincingly

Yeah I'm not surprised. Though to be fair, flying a Hurricane against 109Gs and Fw190s is probably not everyone's idea of fun.

[Jaws]

They cannot win can they, no matter what they do, there will always be someone doing that, won´t it?


Actually what Colander meant was that in that Poll they posted themselves, the Macchi 202 lost and they decided to model the macchi anyway. There are two polls, one in the international forum and one in the Russian forum. The IAR-80 always had the lead, simply because was used at Stalingrad in numbers, while macchi 202 was parked far away.

Here are the results of the polls right now, after almost 1500 players voted:

international forum: http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/729-poll-what-non-german-fighter-would-you-see-il-2-bos/
IAR 80 (365 votes [45.85%])
Macchi C.202 Folgore (431 votes [54.15%])

Russian forum: http://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/topic/409-kakoj-istrebitel-iz-stran-osi-interesen/
IAR 80 (389 голосов [57.29%])
Macchi C.202 Folgore (290 голосов [42.71%])

Combined results:

IAR 80 ------754 votes
Macchi c202--721votes


So why post this poll, where the IAR dominated from the start, when they didn't care about results? making it look like they care? ....it sure looks like right now.

[thee_oddball]

You got serious issues with a game??? do not involve me . I am just in it for the fun

Don't try and take the high road after you strapped the devs to the cross and pointed at them crying victim! after your can't win no matter what they do comment.

As for the game, I shelved it nor do I go to the forum anymore, the online scene is indicative of a game in the throws of death not! a new release, they have fucked up 6 ways to Sunday since the start of unlockgate with their illogical, dismissive and sometimes insulting actions and showing the folgore displays an intense need for this trend to continue.

Bos needs support not cheerleaders who get upset eveytime someone calls BS on their decisions and fails to toe the party line.

[RAF74_Buzzsaw]

Hurricane II's were very common on the southern front during the period of Stalingrad's envelopment... but they were mostly well used retreads from the desert.

In addition, because the Soviets only had 87 octane fuel at the time, they could not use +12 or +16 boost, were forced to operate at +6... which meant their performance was very poor, far below that of properly maintained, fresh aircraft used by the RAF.

[heinkill]

On the topic of whether they would go to the Med

Isn't it interesting that the He111, 109F and 190 in BoS all come with desert skins?

H

[thee_oddball]

On the topic of whether they would go to the Med

Isn't it interesting that the He111, 109F and 190 in BoS all come with desert skins?

H

jason already said they are not going to the med.

[thee_oddball]

I poked my head in over at the asylum (BoS forum) and one of Jason's faithful (SYN) has questioned the logic of doing the Folgore, when your Zealots start to question your path perhaps it's time to rethink it.....will that happen?..of course not.

[knightgames]

I don't think posting images of the Macchi means that it's the only plane they are working on. It's probably the most complete image to share so they went with that.