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View Full Version : ROF/BOS development time



Chivas
Dec-20-2014, 14:50
This was "ONE" of the major concerns I had when 777 Studios took over development of the IL-2 WW2 series. The development of new content, and features for ROF ended for all intense and purposes during the development of BOS. Now that a basic version of BOS has been released they are looking to turn their small team back toward developing content for ROF/ ILYA Muromets. Not only are they developing the new IL-2 series on IMHO a less capable game engine, but dividing their development time between their WW1 and WW2 sims.

ATAG_Colander
Dec-20-2014, 15:19
Personally I think them using the name IL2 in front of the game is like a Reggaeton guy calling him self Beethoven to sell more "music"

VO101_Tom
Dec-20-2014, 16:47
Personally I think them using the name IL2 in front of the game is like a Reggaeton guy calling him self Beethoven to sell more "music"

I use "Rise of Flight - Battle of Stanilngrad" shortcut on my PC :D
I'm not willing to use the il-2 sturmovik and BoS names together...

thee_oddball
Dec-20-2014, 18:33
Personally I think them using the name IL2 in front of the game is like a Reggaeton guy calling him self Beethoven to sell more "music"

Product rebranding is popular these days and i think that Jason using the IL2 franchise tag on his product was the biggest mistake he made, the bar and expectations are to high...."the little engine that could" can't is this regard even by jasons own admission he basically said what his engine does it does well....but not the massive battles we are used to....

BoS is not a continuation of IL2 but a continuation of RoF and had Jason just announced after the fall of CLoD that he intended to an expansion of RoF call BoS i think the expectations would have been on par with 777 franchise product.

What ever popularity and increased sales he has garnered by using the IL2 tag has now turned toxic IMHO, this is further evidenced by the on line scene being so dead...this is the 800 pound gorilla in the room that the Dev's don't want to talk about.

Revvin
Dec-20-2014, 18:46
I was a little disappointed when I heard 777 had done a deal with 1C to continue the IL-2 franchise. I hoped 777 might have been able to raise the funds to start their own WWII sim as I felt 1C's handling of CloD had tarnished the franchise. It does make me wonder if they can sustain two projects and what fixes we're likely to get for both sims or if they will now stop core development and just churn out content they can charge for.

Hood
Dec-20-2014, 19:15
The original IL2 was excellent but let's live in the present shall we. Nothing with IL2 in front of the name will match people's expectations and IMO those expectations are too high. BOS is actually a good successor to the original IL2 albeit with a smaller map choice and planeset. Higher fidelity = greater cost and development time and you won't get what you did in the past.

But back to the OP. It's clear they have a small team but you can switch people between projects if the timeline for each project allows it. I also cannot see anything that suggests a wholesale switch from BOS to ROF or that there is a demand for massive content. It's reassuring that they have listened to the ROF community about FM fixes though.

Following on a comment in another thread I'd agree the base game is about 80% done - I think JW said it was a commercial release version not final release.

Hood

Chivas
Dec-20-2014, 20:16
Best of luck to the BOS development who probably intended to carry on their version of the IL-2 tradition, but for many reasons, some beyond their control, they're moving in a different direction, while having to commit their limited resources to a WW1 sim as well. I believe most flight simmers, if they don't know already, will eventually realize that the very capable COD game engine has a development team dedicated too carrying on the IL-2 tradition. The COD 5.0 update has the potential to see the majority of IL-2'ers return, especially if their new theater is the long awaited MED. That said I think the majority of us will still support BOS, and other combat flight sims, as that's what most combat flight simmers do.

gavagai
Dec-20-2014, 22:58
The FM adjustments in RoF are as far away as possible from just churning out more content. I am very happy the WW1 sim received some attention.

Revvin
Dec-21-2014, 06:21
But those fixes as welcome and overdue as they were are packed with the release of DLC so will we only get fixes when the developers see fit to try and sell DLC?

vranac
Dec-21-2014, 07:45
Following on a comment in another thread I'd agree the base game is about 80% done - I think JW said it was a commercial release version not final release.

Hood

Hehe, % mantra is back :D

What do you expect ? You'll get Dserver and ME and thats it. In less than a month we will know are they continuing their work or not.
That will depend on sales.

Hood
Dec-21-2014, 08:22
Dserver and ME is around 15% for me then there are other fixes and increasing the server limit etc.

Good times ahead.

Hood

vranac
Dec-21-2014, 08:28
Some people already has that. Do you think they'll rewrite ME for a few months ? They will probably just improve GUI a bit and thats it.

Hood
Dec-21-2014, 10:03
Some people isn't everyone and they aren't part of the game as you can buy it. Personally I think they should have released both as they were but on the proviso that whoever used them wouldn't have developer support.

Hood

Tycoon
Dec-21-2014, 19:29
But those fixes as welcome and overdue as they were are packed with the release of DLC so will we only get fixes when the developers see fit to try and sell DLC?

The fm fixes weren't packed with anything they were free, as were the new maps.

LizLemon
Dec-21-2014, 19:41
Some people already has that. Do you think they'll rewrite ME for a few months ? They will probably just improve GUI a bit and thats it.

Jason said 90% chancd of getting the me this year. He explained that they just needed to get rid of a few hold overs from rof.

Revvin
Dec-22-2014, 03:02
The fm fixes weren't packed with anything they were free, as were the new maps.

I think you took my post too literally, what I was getting at was FM updates have been asked about for a long time and we only get them now they have DLC to sell. Looks a bit like the carrot and the stick, people might hold off buying content for a sim that has appeared all but dead so release a patch to enable the DLC and put some FM updates in there too to try and change the perception there is no development going on.

gavagai
Dec-22-2014, 08:29
I can't think of a major RoF patch that hasn't included new aircraft for purchase in the last 5+ years. Of course FM tweaks should have happened sooner, and they probably could have been made more carefully, but they happened. We might even have BoS rancor to thank for it. After all the complaints that they were not listening to customers, and being unable to satisfy BoS customers' wishes because of 1C, they needed a PR victory. I'm just glad that they finally saw it as in their interest to listen.

Revvin
Dec-22-2014, 13:18
I can't think of a major RoF patch that hasn't included new aircraft for purchase in the last 5+ years. Of course FM tweaks should have happened sooner, and they probably could have been made more carefully, but they happened. We might even have BoS rancor to thank for it. After all the complaints that they were not listening to customers, and being unable to satisfy BoS customers' wishes because of 1C, they needed a PR victory. I'm just glad that they finally saw it as in their interest to listen.

To quote Jason Williams:
ALL decisions are made by us, no mythical, evil 1C. We are 1CGS (1C-77 Ltd.). A very small group of managers and owners who are the devs. You guys really have the wrong impression of what 1C is.

Tycoon
Dec-22-2014, 14:30
I think you took my post too literally, what I was getting at was FM updates have been asked about for a long time and we only get them now they have DLC to sell. Looks a bit like the carrot and the stick, people might hold off buying content for a sim that has appeared all but dead so release a patch to enable the DLC and put some FM updates in there too to try and change the perception there is no development going on.

Revvin what you're saying would make sense if they hadn't released any DLC in the last couple of years, but they have, tons of it, all the while as people asked for the fixes we just got. And to the last part of your post, if they are updating and fixing the game isn't that proof by definition that there is development going on?

gavagai
Dec-22-2014, 16:53
To quote Jason Williams:

Mmmm-hmmmmm. And you've never fed someone bullshit to make your boss happy? Only a marketing idiot would continue with the BoS unlock thing at this point. It is killing their business. I suspect that Jason Williams can't do a thing about it.

Revvin
Dec-22-2014, 18:51
Revvin what you're saying would make sense if they hadn't released any DLC in the last couple of years, but they have, tons of it, all the while as people asked for the fixes we just got. And to the last part of your post, if they are updating and fixing the game isn't that proof by definition that there is development going on?

Development all but stopped, don't take my word for it look at the threads around them net, look at the disgruntled users on their own forums who felt the product was sidelined for BoS. They are a small team and this is why the thread came up to start with but now they have two groups of fans who will both want the attention of the developers so.


Mmmm-hmmmmm. And you've never fed someone bullshit to make your boss happy? Only a marketing idiot would continue with the BoS unlock thing at this point. It is killing their business. I suspect that Jason Williams can't do a thing about it.

You really think the billionaire who owns 1C really cares what a few flight sim fans think, enough to tell Jason to make up some story to cast him in a good light? Really? The unlock's are key to their business, it helps them monetise the game and release cheaper versions to suit particular markets and I wouldn't be surprised if in another year they don't do a free version like they did with RoF. Unlock's seem so embedded in that plan they can't them out but what I would like to see is a tiered system where those who bought the premium versions had all the items unlocked. I think that would go a long way to appeasing those who hate having to do the XP grind.

thee_oddball
Dec-22-2014, 19:09
You really think the billionaire who owns 1C really cares what a few flight sim fans think, enough to tell Jason to make up some story to cast him in a good light? Really? The unlock's are key to their business, it helps them monetise the game and release cheaper versions to suit particular markets and I wouldn't be surprised if in another year they don't do a free version like they did with RoF. Unlock's seem so embedded in that plan they can't them out but what I would like to see is a tiered system where those who bought the premium versions had all the items unlocked. I think that would go a long way to appeasing those who hate having to do the XP grind.

Don't hold you breath...


Jason Williams:
ALL decisions are made by us, no mythical, evil 1C. We are 1CGS (1C-77 Ltd.). A very small group of managers and owners who are the devs. You guys really have the wrong impression of what 1C is.

and yet a few weeks ago jason said the russian market was out of his control and had control over only the NA market....
add the above crap to the latest thorazine induced brainstorm the folgore and you have conformation the inmates are infact overseeing the daily activites of the asylum.

Tycoon
Dec-22-2014, 20:05
The unlock's are key to their business

Then why haven't they done it with ROF instead of giving us the stuff we wanted?

LizLemon
Dec-22-2014, 22:29
Didn't some of aborted man's "leaked" emails have a reply from Jason where he claims that unlocks were a decision made in Russia that he can't change/influence?

Foul Ole Ron
Dec-23-2014, 05:11
They're Loft's decisions afaik when it comes to the Russian market. So things like unlocks, no custom graphic settings, etc. are all down to Loft in the end. Unfortunately us non-Russians get screwed over by these Russian decisions as well. I'm sure that Jason wouldn't have agreed with either of those decisions as they're obviously bad and he could see that it would damage the game's perception. Just hope Loft isn't allowed the same latitude in any future iterations of BOS (if there are any) as he's made some bad calls that so easily could have been avoided. While I like BOS well enough I've stopped playing and won't be buying anything in the future unless they change their approach.

Revvin
Dec-23-2014, 06:00
and yet a few weeks ago jason said the russian market was out of his control and had control over only the NA market....
add the above crap to the latest thorazine induced brainstorm the folgore and you have conformation the inmates are infact overseeing the daily activites of the asylum.

That may just be a split in duties with another manager who has better contacts inside Russia


Then why haven't they done it with ROF instead of giving us the stuff we wanted?

Because RoF was designed over 5 years ago when that design suited what they wanted to do back then over 5 years ago, times change and they must have seen other games like War Thunder and World of Tanks and thought that was a model to follow.


They're Loft's decisions afaik when it comes to the Russian market. So things like unlocks, no custom graphic settings, etc. are all down to Loft in the end. Unfortunately us non-Russians get screwed over by these Russian decisions as well. I'm sure that Jason wouldn't have agreed with either of those decisions as they're obviously bad and he could see that it would damage the game's perception. Just hope Loft isn't allowed the same latitude in any future iterations of BOS (if there are any) as he's made some bad calls that so easily could have been avoided. While I like BOS well enough I've stopped playing and won't be buying anything in the future unless they change their approach.

I find this cold war rhetoric kind of odd, like an Amercian could not possibly agree with such a business model? Jason is a businessman, he's in this to make money - and that's not meant as a slight its just a fact that he wants and needs to make money so why not go along with it if he thinks it will make money like War Thunder or World of Tanks?

Foul Ole Ron
Dec-23-2014, 08:26
I find this cold war rhetoric kind of odd, like an Amercian could not possibly agree with such a business model? Jason is a businessman, he's in this to make money - and that's not meant as a slight its just a fact that he wants and needs to make money so why not go along with it if he thinks it will make money like War Thunder or World of Tanks?

It's not cold war rhetoric. Jason, whatever about his faults, did clearly seem to see how this unlock model was not going to be well received if we're going by that email he sent to AM.

In any case they didn't even implement something like WT if you look at what they ended up putting in. The point of WT is to make you pay a premium to unlock stuff more quickly. BOS business model makes you pay a premium and you still have to unlock everything. It's completely illogical and nothing like the WT model. Also it doesn't generate more money having them there as we've all paid full whack already. The only place for unlocks is in the cheap Russian version which was always planned but they kept on the QT. They make sense there just about. They make no sense in full price version but Loft plowed ahead with it anyway which makes me wonder if he really thought this through properly as anybody could have foreseen the fiasco coming.

gavagai
Dec-23-2014, 09:37
Didn't some of aborted man's "leaked" emails have a reply from Jason where he claims that unlocks were a decision made in Russia that he can't change/influence?

Precisely. The way I read the situation is that 777 has been contracted to make a game for 1C, and this venture is called 1CGS. 1C holds the purse and the 777 staff do the work.

And complaining down the chain of command is unacceptable in any company or business I've ever worked for. Complaining about your boss to your customer is even worse. The complaint we saw in AM's email was intended for AM's eyes only. It was a moment of personal sincerity that we will probably not see again.

Tycoon
Dec-23-2014, 11:36
So 1C messed up COD, now they are messing up BOS I guess, BUT they aren't messing up ROF lol.

Revvin
Dec-23-2014, 16:06
It's not cold war rhetoric. Jason, whatever about his faults, did clearly seem to see how this unlock model was not going to be well received if we're going by that email he sent to AM.

The only place for unlocks is in the cheap Russian version which was always planned but they kept on the QT.

To be fair it wasn't just your post I was referring to as I've seen a similar sentiment expressed on other forums, its like nobody could believe a good ole American boy could come up with such a dastardly idea so it must be the work of those nasty Russians, reds under the bed and all that stuff. Jason is a businessman and he would do what he has to do to make money, I see him just as complicit in all this which was shown in his recent post that I quoted above.


The way I read the situation is that 777 has been contracted to make a game for 1C, and this venture is called 1CGS. 1C holds the purse and the 777 staff do the work.

And yet that contradicts what Jason Williams actually said in his most recent comment on the whole "who are we, who are 1C" etc. where he said:


Jason Williams: ALL decisions are made by us, no mythical, evil 1C. We are 1CGS (1C-77 Ltd.). A very small group of managers and owners who are the devs. You guys really have the wrong impression of what 1C is.


So 1C messed up COD, now they are messing up BOS I guess, BUT they aren't messing up ROF lol.

Once again:
Jason Williams: ALL decisions are made by us, no mythical, evil 1C. We are 1CGS (1C-77 Ltd.). A very small group of managers and owners who are the devs. You guys really have the wrong impression of what 1C is.

So do we go back to the email months ago where he said in private something that may have just been said to sooth the bad feeling one of the respondents who he paid to shill for him and sounded like he had started thinking he had backed the wrong horse or do we go with his more recent public statement on who does what and who is responsible for the decisions made?

Revvin
Dec-23-2014, 16:09
If the unlock thing was a part of the cheap version only as a way for them to monetise and create a cheaper version for other markets I don't have an issue but having paid a premium price I'd like to see all content unlocked. I never had an issue with the free version of Rise of Flight either even though I'd paid full price for the boxed version.