Time To Take A Deep Breath.....

[ATAG_Snapper]

This is probably most appropriate for me to post. This morning Black Six (1C Community Manager) posted the Hurricane Ia (Rotol) and Spitfire Ia performance charts for both present and upcoming-patched flight models. Obviously this has caused a great deal of concern amongst many of us since the charts clearly show a significant detuning of the current Rotol flight model, and a hard-to-fathom adjustment of the current Ia model favouring high altitude performance at the expense of low altitude performance. Exacerbating this concern was Black Six's admission, when pressed, was that the 1C devs never had "official" flight performance data below 3000 meters -- where most of the ATAG Server dogfight action occurs. This is on top of earlier information that the IIa's performance will be substantially reduced while the 109's performance will be tweaked upwards in terms of reducing all-out weight.

Phew.

I sounded off both here and at 1C. Predictably, not well received over there. Sadly, I don't give a rat's ass anymore. Plain fed up, is why. That said, what's done is done. Everyone has a right to his opinion, and to express it in a non-inflammatory way. What I DO ask of every forum member is to keep everything in perspective. This is, after all, just a game. A game many of us are passionate about, but just a game, nonetheless. Everyone please keep in mind that tempers are a little frayed right now. We are all adults, so I ask EVERYONE to take the higher road both here and on the ATAG Server. We're all here to have fun and enjoy shooting each other -virtually - down in flames!

[Robo.]

Dude, I've been reading your posts over at 1c and I assure you you didn't over react or anything. In fact, what you wrote was pretty reasonable but sort of lost and buried in the heated debate.

I don't know what to say, it's obviously not very fair but that's the way it is. I fly for the RAF because I find little pleasure in having success in a superior aircraft. With the new FM (whatever they will be, I am not gonna comment on that until I try) it will be even more difficult, but one thing is for sure - .303 bullets still fly faster tna 109s :thumbsup:

The data is available, it should not be too difficult for the devs to get this right within historical accurate ballpark +- margin. But this is a bit too off for my taste. Luthier admitting he didn't know about the operation of 2-pitch propeller on Spitfires is funny but does not add to my confidence in their competence. :Grin: (I mean if I know this stuff, being simpleton and humble enthusiast, then a company making and selling a sim should know better I guess - this era is so well researched). This 100 octane parade is a disgrace with both sides pushing too hard (funny thing is the main guys don't even fly the sim).

Pity, I share your frustration, I think is pretty much understandable, but on the other hand, it's just a game. At the end of the day, it's still the pilot who wins fights.

[ATAG_Torian]

This is on top of earlier information that the IIa's performance will be substantially reduced while the 109's performance will be tweaked upwards in terms of reducing all-out weight.

A worthwhile vent Snapper. While we're in vent mode, along with the toning down of the IIa we still have to contend with the Russian modders (read hackers) with their magic pilot seeking bullets and nitro charged 109s. They are running exploits guys and no one gives a rats about that either, we just praise their expert "abilities". Kick me out of ATAG if u want but these guys get no respect from me.
The game may well get sorted somewhere down the track but I'm not as starry eyed about it as I 1st was. And there are always servers to fly on where the Russians aren't. Even with the toned down Brit planes it is still a fun game if u can fly where there are no modded planes.

[Dutch]

Deep breath taken, along with a good night's kip.

Yep it's just a game, with three combat a/c modelled for red - Spit, Hurri, Blen; and seven combat a/c modelled for Blue, six of which can carry bombs.

And now.....(fanfare) the 109E4 performs better than reality at 3-5000m, whereas the Spit Ia performs worse than 87 octane reality everywhere, but has an edge up where no-one flies.

I've said this before, but they should've named the game 'Kanalkampf' or 'Adler Tag'.

After six years of waiting for 1C to produce a Battle of Britain simulation, what we've got is a wet dream for the Luftwaffe fans.

The saddest thing is that there is no real choice of an alternative WWII combat flight sim, so they can do what they like and we'll carry on buying their products.

Talk about being stuck between a rock and a hard place.

Yours,

Still Pissed Off of Stelling Minnis.

[ATAG_EvangelusE]

I welcome the revisions if the relative performance of the allied fighters is better than what we currently have. In my last post on the 1c forum I made the point that it may well be that the Spit2a revisions bring it closer to the performance we expect from a mK1a, it will probably be the best of the allied plane set and should be more acceptable to blue players.

I have every confidence that the ATAG admins will do their best to balance play with what we have been given rather than what is historically correct regards plane sets - thats is not their fault - it has been imposed upon them.

It could also be possible to have some of the axis bombers set at altitudes where escorts and interceptors are forced into altitudes where the FM is 'less questionable'.

Unless there is a change of hearts with the devs, I expect to see little progress regards the issues raised regards the proposed changes or the inclusion of 100 octane fuel for CloD. We are stuck with what we get and will just have to continue doing what we do best - adapt!

[ATAG_Septic]

Hi Evangaluse,

It's good to read your positive spirit, adapt or die, it is the only way. I admire the pilots, red and blue, who pit their skills in an uneven fight with a superior flight model. :-)

With all due respect though, you are an accomplished flyer who can use comparatively very advanced skills to mine. I remember your being hampered by fps issues at low altitude but your victories still far outweighed defeats.

I wish I could fly red more but I'm easy meat in anything other that the IIa and I'm fast food for many in that! I know this is a defeatist attitude but I just don't enjoy the learning curve sufficiently to persevere and I'm only in this for enjoyment. My lack of determination is also illustrated by my reticence to pick a 109/110 for instance, unless I'm in a big gang when the IIa's are on! I tend to pick an 87 because at least I know I can turn, dive, deliberately stall and recover and generally enjoy a couple of minutes of combat and panic before bail out or the black screen :-)

I'm disheartened that much better players than me see little hope. I believe good games are those able to balance effort and reward and keep the learning curve just the right side of frustrating. I need to believe I have at least a defensive tactic that might work sometimes in any plane, red or blue. Without this I suspect the sim will fail as a multiplayer title so I hope more balance will be achieved in time.

(I do hope you are right about the IIa being at least competitive post the Beta patch and that it is therefore included more).

Cheers old chap.

[ATAG_Snapper]

Lots of interesting points made here.

@Torian: If this patch provides the optimized code that 1C claims, then Steam VAC should finally be enabled for CoD -- it's vital we get confirmation on this. That would put paid into any question of hacked FM's being used on our server.


@Septic: if you fly the Red side I'd be proud to fly as your wingman, mate. We could do some serious damage as a team!

I'm hoping that there has been enough outcry from BOTH sides over the projected patched FM's that the devs will feel FORCED to re-examine the issue and adjust accordingly. If not for historical reasons, but for gameplay. They want to sell CoD and the upcoming sequel. They've spent a ton of money & resources to get this far. They need good press now. Whether they have some kind of agenda, or just lackadaisical over this whole FM issue, if the game plays like shyte as a result, word will get out and THAT will cost them. Hopefully they're "smelling the coffee" right now!

[ATAG_JTDawg]

we still have to contend with the Russian modders (read hackers) with their magic pilot seeking bullets and nitro charged 109s. They are running exploits guys and no one gives a rats about that either, we just praise their expert "abilities". Kick me out of ATAG if u want but these guys get no respect from me.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Torian salute, I understand perfectly what you are saying,but out of respect for ATAG, we shut our mouths to the scammers in this game, I understand why atag dosn't [not really] boot them !!! But you are right we praise them ,let them upload vids and say great job! :hpyclp: I'm into fairplay. An we do give a rats ass ! It really bothers us guys that put 100s of hours in, to be beat by 30 mins of coding . But you are not the only one crying foul. :pouting: But i have been told till the next patch suck it up, which i we do mostly anyway,and i hope if we ever get the almost here patch , these probs will get resolved!! I have listened to you on ts helping the younger kids get up to speed you are amazing to listen to, your Patience :hpyclp: when explaining over an over again . i've lost alot of faith in this game, but it started in 46 when the hacks came out,so waited for clod hoping they could put out a game to stop the hackers, And here we are !!! P.S. This game from conception has been biased to the axis side but as a average hurri pilot, [red player ] waiting to go to the vet an get newtered again, Just seems to be anouther slap in the face, SALUTE ATAG an to all that have helped me ,keep my mouth shut.

[Dutch]

Hiya Dawg,

Your 'three lies' gave me a chuckle on 1C yesterday, particularly lie no.3! :bgsmile:

[ATAG_JTDawg]

:blush!: it's true!!! my bud sent me this link please watch if you need a laugh http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zs56Mr9iFqQ spit coffee on my new key board

[ATAG_Knuckles]

I have seen that video, gosh many months ago, but every time I watch it its gets funnier, probably because as time goes by it becomes more pertinent . :hpyclp:

[ATAG_Torian]

I know Downfall gets used an awful lot for this sort of stuff but that movie has
gotta be one of my alltime favourites. The guy who played Hitler deserved a Best
Actor Oscar for that portrayal. He had Hitler down to a tee in that role.