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View Full Version : Whats the preferred plane, if any, to learn to fly in?



Blue-lph
Feb-01-2015, 00:40
Hi guys,
I was just wondering if there is a specific aircraft one learns to fly in, whether it's allied or axis and if there's a particular time when there are instructors available?
Thanks

klu.peete
Feb-01-2015, 02:06
Take the tigermoth.. its fun to fly.. when I am on team speak call out.. i wil help you geth in the air. Greets Klu peete

Blue-lph
Feb-01-2015, 02:16
Thanks klu.peete for the offer. I should've been more specific. I fly almost every day on one of the sims I have as well as COD but have trouble with a few things such as navigating the map (I have trouble with land marks), start up on the Hurricane (won't start easily), formation flying and basic dog fighting skills. I can take off and land easily enough. Is there a better plane to learn on or still the tiger moth?

Thank you

Avronut
Feb-01-2015, 04:18
Hi Blue,

I'm happy to go through stuff with you. I'm online most days and should be flying this afternoon. Just give me a shout.

We can start up the hurri and then jump in a spit and I can show you what I know about dogfighting and formation flying although I'm no expert. As we fly I'll point out some landmarks.

Mike

klu.peete
Feb-01-2015, 04:53
I touk the hurricane yesterday and this is a good learning plane also.. but.. the basics you hafe to do in the real learning plane the raf has.. and i think its the tigermoth. Also you can see lots of video's on youtube from apeoftheyear.. heiden. And karaya. Those pilots made very good torturials in diverend planes. !!!! Also navigation. Heiden made that one...
greets peete

Gromit
Feb-01-2015, 06:16
Stukas the best, when did you ever forget to raise or lower your undercarriage on a Stuka :-)

Black034
Feb-01-2015, 07:48
Personally, the 109 was the first thing I hopped into.
It teaches patience, awareness and has a reasonable workload.
Teamwork and communication comes with it.

Fly it wrong and you're done for.

ATAG_DRock
Feb-01-2015, 08:05
Hello Blue.

I agree with Gromit, the Stuka would be the easiest plane to learn how to fly.

It's easy to take off and land with.


~S~

ATAG_((dB))
Feb-01-2015, 08:35
Stukas the best, when did you ever forget to raise or lower your undercarriage on a Stuka :-)

Ahh that explain why you where flying your Hurricane with your well down the other day:-P

xvii-Dietrich
Feb-01-2015, 10:10
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1lokos
Feb-01-2015, 12:35
Tiger Moth only will teach you patience, and have the worst ground handling of the planes in the game.

The ideal is Hurricane. Easy to takeoff and landing.

But the "better" training will be in Fiat G-50, has all CEM controls (PP, mixture, radiator...) and is difficult to taxi, takeoff and landing, if you master in them the others became easy. :D

Otyg
Feb-01-2015, 13:13
109. Teaches you how to energy fight and not turn. So if you learn that in the beginning you will be imortal in any red plane you pick later on.

Or just take the one you think looks the best ;)

InvaderZim
Feb-01-2015, 13:29
Another vote for the Stuka. Engine management skills come easier as the gauges are in the right place to see while others talk you through the engine management stuff. + all the other Stuka stuff already said. It all translates into the other aircraft. All the terrain association stuff comes naturally as you get more missions undr your belt. Just ask other folks what they mean when they say something like 109 over English Point. Ask for the grid for English point and for some landmark details. After a while the coastal features become easy. The inland maps get a bit harder depending on size. Again, it is just repetition on a map that becomes the best teacher.

ATAG_Flare
Feb-01-2015, 13:39
I'd go for the Hurricane. Easy to takeoff, land, fly, but still puts up a good fight against germans for when you want to learn combat.

Flare

Gromit
Feb-01-2015, 13:40
Ahh that explain why you where flying your Hurricane with your well down the other day:-P

I was impersonating a Duck landing, but Ducks climb faster than Hurricanes! :goofy

klu.peete
Feb-01-2015, 18:30
HO HO HOOO..... guys you all have ideers but.. this man bleu. .. wants to learn to fly!!! Tigermoth is feulcock open and go.. it handles like a dream. Is easy to fly everything is slow and so right for a student. The RAF did not trough the students in a hurricane or stucka.. first the basics of flyth I say.. Did one of you when you touk your plane did a stall check first? first one with wheels out then with wheels in wat is de stal speed etc... witch wing fal first !! Dit you do a spin and recover? I think not.. sorry to say.. well i did. So my advice still stands. Greets Klu peete.

GeekyFatKid
Feb-01-2015, 22:59
I vote the one you think looks the coolest. If you crash on takeoff or landing all you have to do is respawn and try again. why waste time flying a crate you wouldnt touch with a 10 foot pole. although to be perfectly honest i suck a big one so maybe my advice on learning should be avoided like the plague and you should pick the ugliest crap plane you can find. One thing I know for sure is you should pick whatever team im not on so theres at least one plane you can easily beat in a dog fight. i am here to help the other team gain confidence and i do my job well.

S~
GeekyFatKid

ATAG_((dB))
Feb-02-2015, 00:14
See Blue you have to fly them all, you are stuck with us for a while :-)

Zisi
Feb-02-2015, 01:22
I would say the Spitfire.

1. It's competitive with all the other aircraft and in a wider envelope than any other aircraft in the game.
2. It has the best visibility in the cockpit of all the other aircraft.
3. Best glide ratio for making it back to base when your engine is shot out.
4. It's a great brawler, so while you can boom and zoom pretty well, if you get in a turning fight then you are at an advantage.
5. Rotol prop is easier to manage than pitch in the 109, the radiator also responds quickly and by % rather than having to look at the stick on the wing / timing it / or keeping track of the wheel position.
6. Can fly with the canopy open or closed, while learning to spot targets this can be more valuable than one might imagine.

All of these points make the spit more forgiving and easier to learn than any other fighter in the game imo. The other aircraft have various advantages, but only in certain envelopes, the hurricane has more stable guns and a tighter convergence, but it's horrible energy conservation means you need to be extra mindful of energy tactics being used against you, and it's wings like to get shot off by cannons. The 109 has better energy conservation, however has poor turning, and its easy for a new pilot to get into an unrecoverable dive, the 109 doesn't connect well with a new pilots preconceptions about dogfighting and therefore can have a bit more of a learning curve.

3./JG51_Heiden
Feb-02-2015, 02:03
The 109 has a high learning curve. I prefer high learning curves because it prepares you for anything later on. If you would like personalized lessons in the 109 send me a PM and I will gladly show you the ropes.

klu.peete
Feb-02-2015, 04:21
Are you still with us new pilot Bleu ..?

hnbdgr
Feb-02-2015, 05:40
109. Teaches you how to energy fight and not turn. So if you learn that in the beginning you will be imortal in any red plane you pick later on.



It does teach you a lot about energy fighting and whilst you can apply some of it to red planes, it would be a mistake to fly a spit like a 109 at all times.

Sometimes people say: if only the spit pilots flew their spits like a 109....I always thought that was a bit of a fallacy. I fly both and whilst I can do very well in the 109 (when I don't act abruptly) - flying a red plane "like a 109" just can't be done the same way. You can try high yoyo's and b'n'zing but because you'll be flying against the 109 - the calculus will be different.

In a 109 you can outclimb the spit with a relatively small E difference especially at high angles and you can outrun the spit. In a spit you can't do that - The 109 starts running - if you give chase, soon your E states will be equal. If you start doing yoyo's - your roll rate is abysmal compared to the 109 at top of the yoyo. This gives the 109 time to escape. Exception to this is when you already have an E and altitude advantage and the 109 is on the deck - low and slow

So whilst there are times where you can utilize your height or E and successfully carry out a B'n'Z or high yoyo - the spit is much less suited for this when flying against the 109. Things change when facing the stuka or the G50.

Spit is predominantly a good turner and preserves energy well. But it's not a good runner or climber. When I'm in a 109 the spits that escape my guns are the ones turning, not the ones doing yoyo's. Likewise the spit that shoots me down is the one that turns and then goes headon last few seconds (I hate those!:recon:) - and then there's the spit that I didn't see of course :) - If you can, try to be that spit :thumbsup: (but not when I'm flying a 109 :P)

DoubleStandards
Feb-03-2015, 12:05
The 109 has a high learning curve. I prefer high learning curves because it prepares you for anything later on. If you would like personalized lessons in the 109 send me a PM and I will gladly show you the ropes.


+1
I pretty much fly red now, but started learning to fly with to BF-109. I had very little flight sim experience before I jumped into Cliffs of Dover a few months ago, so starting out with the 109 was pretty rough. Once I got proficient with the 109 I decided to jump into the Spitfire and fell in love. I don't fly bombers, so I cant speak about those.

The key is to get a feel for planes from both sides in order to better understand what capabilities/drawbacks each sides machines have. Because I learned the 109, I know better how to handle going up against one in a Spitfire.

3./JG51_Heiden
Feb-03-2015, 13:17
The key is to get a feel for planes from both sides in order to better understand what capabilities/drawbacks each sides machines have. Because I learned the 109, I know better how to handle going up against one in a Spitfire.

I'm not sure that I necessarily agree. In all my time flying CoD, I have only flown the Spitfire 1 time. I flew it long enough to realize that I absolutely hated everything about it and didn't care to fly it any more. The 30 minutes I spent flying it were enough for me to realize it wasn't anything I wanted to know. So, in essence, I have never really flown the British planes for any beneficial length of time. Despite it, I seem to do alright basically not knowing their true strengths. If you learn the plane you want, and learn it to its maximum potential, then in theory you shouldn't even need to know how the enemy plane performs. Just my opinion, not really supported by fact!

hnbdgr
Feb-03-2015, 13:26
I'm not sure that I necessarily agree. In all my time flying CoD, I have only flown the Spitfire 1 time. I flew it long enough to realize that I absolutely hated everything about it and didn't care to fly it any more. The 30 minutes I spent flying it were enough for me to realize it wasn't anything I wanted to know. So, in essence, I have never really flown the British planes for any beneficial length of time. Despite it, I seem to do alright basically not knowing their true strengths. If you learn the plane you want, and learn it to its maximum potential, then in theory you shouldn't even need to know how the enemy plane performs. Just my opinion, not really supported by fact!

It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle.

https://westernrifleshooters.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/sun-tzu.gif

DoubleStandards
Feb-03-2015, 15:58
I'm not sure that I necessarily agree. In all my time flying CoD, I have only flown the Spitfire 1 time. I flew it long enough to realize that I absolutely hated everything about it and didn't care to fly it any more. The 30 minutes I spent flying it were enough for me to realize it wasn't anything I wanted to know. So, in essence, I have never really flown the British planes for any beneficial length of time. Despite it, I seem to do alright basically not knowing their true strengths. If you learn the plane you want, and learn it to its maximum potential, then in theory you shouldn't even need to know how the enemy plane performs. Just my opinion, not really supported by fact!

But the point is, you jumped in the Spitfire and hated it for a reason. You saw that the Spit is a good turn fighter but has poorish climb and dive rates, were the 109 excels and climb and dive, but cant match a Spitfires turn. You are in the 109 because it suits your flying style, but you have a knowledge of what the Spit you are going up against capabilities are, although in your case Heiden, yours is but a token knowledge if you only spent 30mins in the machine.

There is a reason why during WW2 armies tested captured enemy equipment. Not only for R&D purposes, but to give life saving info to the front line troops.

I do agree, what ever plane you want to make your "go to machine" you should master. Just because a plane is capable of doing something does not mean the pilot is.

Zisi
Feb-04-2015, 16:34
..... You saw that the Spit is a good turn fighter but has poorish climb and dive rates. ....

I have mostly been flying the 109 lately. That said, I wouldn't say the spit has poorish climb or dive rates, it's slightly worse than the 109, however its much easier and faster to adjust the spitfire to its optimal flight configuration than it is on the 109. A spit which has its radiator and pitch set optimally, will outperform a 109 that does not, and we aren't really talking about large amounts of speed here. There have been numerous occasions in which I have caught up to a 109 in a Co-E dive, and also in a long Co-E climb.

Black034
Feb-04-2015, 17:12
I have mostly been flying the 109 lately. That said, I wouldn't say the spit has poorish climb or dive rates, it's slightly worse than the 109, however its much easier and faster to adjust the spitfire to its optimal flight configuration than it is on the 109. A spit which has its radiator and pitch set optimally, will outperform a 109 that does not, and we aren't really talking about large amounts of speed here. There have been numerous occasions in which I have caught up to a 109 in a Co-E dive, and also in a long Co-E climb.


Then he isn't flying his plane right.. to put it simply.. :)

Oh shi- that dislike was not on purpose!!
I can't change it now, ehhh...

9./JG52 Ziegler
Feb-05-2015, 08:04
I would say the Spitfire.

1. It's competitive with all the other aircraft and in a wider envelope than any other aircraft in the game.
2. It has the best visibility in the cockpit of all the other aircraft.
3. Best glide ratio for making it back to base when your engine is shot out.
4. It's a great brawler, so while you can boom and zoom pretty well, if you get in a turning fight then you are at an advantage.
5. Rotol prop is easier to manage than pitch in the 109, the radiator also responds quickly and by % rather than having to look at the stick on the wing / timing it / or keeping track of the wheel position.
6. Can fly with the canopy open or closed, while learning to spot targets this can be more valuable than one might imagine.

All of these points make the spit more forgiving and easier to learn than any other fighter in the game imo. The other aircraft have various advantages, but only in certain envelopes, the hurricane has more stable guns and a tighter convergence, but it's horrible energy conservation means you need to be extra mindful of energy tactics being used against you, and it's wings like to get shot off by cannons. The 109 has better energy conservation, however has poor turning, and its easy for a new pilot to get into an unrecoverable dive, the 109 doesn't connect well with a new pilots preconceptions about dogfighting and therefore can have a bit more of a learning curve.

#6! :) I rest my case.

SorcererDave
Feb-05-2015, 09:39
I've often found it funny how people get so attached to one aircraft in the game that they refuse to fly all others. Even in real life after the war Adolf Galland was keen to have a go in the Spitfire and likewise guys like Bader and Bob Tuck relished the opportunity to try out a 109. Broaden your horizons, guys. I love flying the Hurri, Spit and 109 in equal measure, and I love flying bombers too. I want to experience what the BoB was like for both sides, and all their different aircrews, and I've found it's only strengthened my piloting skills rather than detracting from them. It means I'm not constantly left in the dust when I fly my Hurri, and it means I'm not rendered totally helpless and forced to dive away when attacked by an equal energy Spitfire in the 109.

Dragon
Feb-08-2015, 05:25
My brief experience, even with using Mission Builder to make a take off scenario, is that learning to take off and land at ATAG server realism settings the Spitfire has been easy while the BF 109 has been quite difficult.

I have edited this post to incorporate information I received below. There is an excellent way to practice take offs offline with any aircraft. Go to the "Extras" selection from the main screen then got to the Mission Builder then create a single mission where you are on the ground. For the BF 109 I used the Quick Mission Free Flight over France scenario as the basis of the mission, but placed the plane on the ground at Caen Carpiquet to practice taking off.
The Quick Mission Free Flight over France scenario has been great for practicing landings at Le Havre Octeville which is visible 2 o'clock low at the mission start.

SorcererDave
Feb-08-2015, 08:43
Heiden did an absolutely brilliant video on landing the 109 properly. Got me to stop bursting my tires and breaking my landing gear no problem. If I manage to track it down I'll post it here. Or maybe he will if he's reading this thread.

ElGringo
Feb-08-2015, 10:40
You should use the Full Mission Builder to make yourself the training mission you need Dragon. It is not very hard to use, and that way you could set your aircraft as you want.

Dragon
Feb-08-2015, 13:00
You should use the Full Mission Builder to make yourself the training mission you need Dragon. It is not very hard to use, and that way you could set your aircraft as you want.

Thank you. I was not aware there was one. I had not looked at the Extras menu before. :doh: Now I will learn to use the Mission Builder to create the take off mission for the BF 109. I want to fly this plane.

Sorceror Dave, I would never have completely successfully landed the BF 109 without Heiden's great videos. If not for his Flight School playlist on YouTube, I may never have attempted to fly the BF 109 at all. In retrospect, curse you, Heiden! ;;)

This is such an awesome community!

Update, took off no sweat first try on custom mission. :)