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1lokos
Feb-01-2015, 13:27
VKB Gladiator

http://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/uploads/monthly_01_2015/post-979-0-98892700-1422699257.jpg
http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/14343-vkb-gladiator-joystick-project/#entry227060

Since the target is a "budget" (80-90$) joystick is not HOTAS, but all in one piece. The HOTAS format double the price.

8 axis
1 HAT
39 buttons - include 5 Encoders*
MaRS digital sensor in X,Y, rudder (twist) axis.
Potentiometer on other 5 axis (throttle, mixture, flaps...).

* Rotaries with encoder allow "trim on wheels" in certain WWII Combat Flight Game. :D
Or can be used to set DI, Course Setter, Bombsight, gunsight... in CLoD.

"Why WWII piston propeller plane style?
1) The market is already full of joysticks from leading brands, stylized as modern combat aircraft.
2) Most of virtual pilots to fly it on the pistons propeller planes.
3) I love piston aircraft of that era, and since the final decision to launch the project to take me, I quickly and without a doubt chose piston design and ergonomics. Here and so took office."

The grip with 3 buttons and HAT is based on Luftwaffe KG12 grip with some concessions, the pinkie button is located more high/accessible and the B-Knopf button is a HAT switch.

Sokol1

Fulcrum
Feb-01-2015, 13:41
VKB Gladiator

http://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/uploads/monthly_01_2015/post-979-0-98892700-1422699257.jpg
http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/14343-vkb-gladiator-joystick-project/#entry227060

Since the target is a "budget" (80-90$) joystick is not HOTAS, but all in one piece. The HOTAS format double the price.

8 axis
1 HAT
39 buttons - include 5 Encoders*
MaRS digital sensor in X,Y, rudder (twist) axis.
Potentiometer on other 5 axis (throttle, mixture, flaps...).

* Rotaries with encoder allow "trim on wheels" in certain WWII Combat Flight Game. :D
Or can be used to set DI, Course Setter, Bombsight, gunsight... in CLoD.

"Why WWII piston propeller plane style?
1) The market is already full of joysticks from leading brands, stylized as modern combat aircraft.
2) Most of virtual pilots to fly it on the pistons propeller planes.
3) I love piston aircraft of that era, and since the final decision to launch the project to take me, I quickly and without a doubt chose piston design and ergonomics. Here and so took office."

The grip with 3 buttons and HAT is based on Luftwaffe KG12 grip with some concessions, the pinkie button is located more high/accessible and the B-Knopf button is a HAT switch.

Sokol1

Love VKB. This will be purchased for my son when it finally is released.

Quality products...but because it's basically a hobby / part time business it takes them a while to get stuff out.

Soko1....have you seen any news on the KG12 Stick for the Mamba?

1lokos
Feb-01-2015, 20:40
No news for metal KG12 grip for Mamba production:

"KG12 slowed down. We do not have mega-corporations, limited resources. Priority was given to the development joystick Gladiator. We make a prototype, will be free. Then go back to KG12."

ATAG_Flare
Feb-01-2015, 23:28
AND . . . this just put my X52 purchase on hold for a while :D

Looks awesome!

Flare

hnbdgr
Feb-02-2015, 05:01
This looks awesome. I hope it does have at least 1 pov hat on the top though.

Also Sokol, do you know if VKB have any plans for a FFB joystick?

Osprey
Feb-02-2015, 06:56
The market is short of 'long throw' sticks, people have to make their own extensions and that is skilled work. I don't know why Saitek etc haven't figured a decent way to include a stick extension for floor mounting, be it a kit or whatever.

Black034
Feb-02-2015, 07:10
Totally buying this when it comes out!

By the looks of it, it has more buttons compared to a keyboard!
Excellent.

SorcererDave
Feb-02-2015, 07:15
Really like the look of this. Far more convenient than the setup I currently have, that's for damn sure.

1lokos
Feb-02-2015, 12:51
Also Sokol, do you know if VKB have any plans for a FFB joystick?

No, that's always asked for them, but Force Feedback involve "million dolar" patents, impracticable for VKB small production.

G940 is probable the "The Last of the Mohicans" of Force Feedback sticks.


The market is short of 'long throw' sticks, people have to make their own extensions and that is skilled work.

VKB offer a stick extension and strong springs for Mamba stick, compatible with Cougar/Warthog grip.

http://www.vkb-flightsimcontrols.com/zakaz/index_z.php

1lokos
Mar-06-2015, 23:26
Render of model send to prototype, now with removable palm rest.

http://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/uploads/monthly_03_2015/post-979-0-09266100-1425610323.jpg
http://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/uploads/monthly_03_2015/post-979-0-97754800-1425610339.jpg
http://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/uploads/monthly_03_2015/post-979-0-88167800-1425610357.jpg

hhttp://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/uploads/monthly_03_2015/post-979-0-83851300-1425620520.jpg
http://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/uploads/monthly_03_2015/post-979-0-32376600-1425620583.jpg
http://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/uploads/monthly_03_2015/post-979-0-86410500-1425620682.jpg
http://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/uploads/monthly_03_2015/post-979-0-09315700-1425620665.jpg

Roland
Mar-07-2015, 12:00
As Osprey says a long stick is a good thing and I would adore a manufacturer one for my stick. Also good would be a center mount for it.

1lokos
Mar-29-2015, 22:51
Pictures of pre-production prototype:

http://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/uploads/monthly_03_2015/post-15866-0-02340300-1427339919.jpg

http://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/uploads/monthly_03_2015/post-15866-0-89510300-1427339876.jpg

http://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/uploads/monthly_03_2015/post-15866-0-16836900-1427339901.jpg

http://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/uploads/monthly_03_2015/post-15866-0-75070600-1427339936.jpg

ATAG_Colander
Mar-29-2015, 22:56
Nice!!!!

Infinity
Mar-29-2015, 23:46
No, that's always asked for them, but Force Feedback involve "million dolar" patents, impracticable for VKB small production.


Great, we can't buy a decent FFB stick because some patent troll. Hopefully the patent expires soon.

ATAG_Flare
Mar-30-2015, 23:47
Pictures of pre-production prototype:

http://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/uploads/monthly_03_2015/post-15866-0-02340300-1427339919.jpg

Awesome! I'm going to be a customer for sure.

Flare

JG27-Gaidin
Mar-31-2015, 10:25
I could see me buying one!

Gaidin

Wing Walker
Apr-15-2015, 13:52
That is literally the perfect flight stick.

I don't know why Satek doesn't incorporate more wheels dials and slides. They enable perfect control.

The A-10 and high end ones are really over kill for what is out there for ww2 flight sims, which is nearly all.

Though, I would appreciate a high end version...

How many of you have had your favorite flight stick break or die? I had mine break and they don't make them anymore! That figures someone would make the perfect flight stick and it would be a cheap thing that would break after a few months, let alone if it was knocked on the floor or something.

Wish I could get an all steel construction one, that would be worth $400 to have it made practically indestructible.

farley
Apr-15-2015, 14:50
Wish I could get an all steel construction one, that would be worth $400 to have it made practically indestructible.


Something like this? I have never seen one, but know the name.

http://flightsimcontrols.com/store/joysticks/vkb-fat-black-mamba-for-non-eu/


The CH products are well made and middle of the price range. I'm very happy with mine.

There are lots of threads you can find here that talk about gear.

Emton
Apr-19-2015, 09:39
This stick looks so awesome, make it heavy with thick, dense and durable plastics.

1lokos
Apr-29-2015, 13:34
Attention, this drawings is only a study of "virpilov's" (Russian) feedback/wishes about Gladiator project, not confirmed changes in the design!

Gladiator STANDARD

http://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/uploads/monthly_04_2015/post-979-0-19916300-1430277504.jpg

Gladiator PRO

http://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/uploads/monthly_04_2015/post-979-0-24331400-1430277501.jpg

Gladiator EXPERT

http://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/uploads/monthly_04_2015/post-979-0-77690300-1430277498.jpg

hnbdgr
Apr-29-2015, 14:58
Pro is a nice compromise, though separate throttle would be much better. The panel in expert is just likely to obscure your vision. Other than that, nice concepts :thumbsup:

ATAG_Colander
Apr-29-2015, 15:07
Well, between the "expert" proposal and having it separate, is only one hacksaw away :)

3./JG51_Heiden
Apr-29-2015, 15:33
The throttle is WAY too close to the stick. That would be very uncomfortable for me. X52's solution is much better as I can keep the throttle far to the left for my left hand and the stick far to the right for my right hand.

Baffin
Apr-30-2015, 22:25
The throttle is WAY too close to the stick. That would be very uncomfortable for me. X52's solution is much better as I can keep the throttle far to the left for my left hand and the stick far to the right for my right hand.

I agree. Any HOTAS should have separate stick and throttle. This looks like a very nice video game controller... not a flight sim interface at all.

1lokos
Apr-30-2015, 23:24
I agree. Any HOTAS should have separate stick and throttle. This looks like a very nice video game controller... not a flight sim interface at all.

But the joystick producer approach seems similar to IL-2:BoS dev's approach (these planed - in their own words - a "flight game" and not a flight sim' ), they don't plan a HOTAS - the market already have this, with the "infinite" line of "F-16/A-10" - or Tie Fighter (http://www.saitek.com/uk/prod/x52.html)- like ones.

They plan a joystick for the casual gamer (playing a casual flight game like BoS or WT), that put the joystick in keyboard place, fly some time, remove the joystick - so the compact format is desirable - put the keyboard back and go type in Facebook. :D

I bet that we will see packs of this joystick sold together with BoS or WT.

Royraiden
May-01-2015, 10:01
Why go for an specific era joystick and then go for a gamer-type approach?Doesnt make sense to me, the way I see it, the people like us who would appreciate a WW2 era joystick enjoy the simulator approach and thus would prefer a sort of accurate(as much as possible) design, or at least something that resembles the joystick from that period.

1lokos
May-01-2015, 10:28
I think is due their Russian origin, seems the people there look at flight games more like a cyber sport, not with this "grognard flight simulator" vision like (some) us.

The guys from there like the Knüppelgriff KG-12/13 design - the "grandchildren" of this grip was used in some Eastern block planes until 60's (http://www.muzejrv.mod.gov.rs/pages_files/spolja_files/spoexpo_files/j21_files/j21.html) - but you see they asking for "dual triggers", HATS, twist rudder, more buttons, better ergonomics... things that don't fit in the original design.

One thing that the flight(game) sim market lacks is a standalone throttle that meet the needs of WWII planes (levers for pitch, mixture, super chargers, 3 trim wheels...).

F-16/F-18 throttles is good for... F-16/F-18. :)

Tvrdi
May-01-2015, 13:37
The throttle is WAY too close to the stick. That would be very uncomfortable for me. X52's solution is much better as I can keep the throttle far to the left for my left hand and the stick far to the right for my right hand.

Oddly enough, I never get used to hotas systems...the first solution will be perfect for me...

Emton
May-02-2015, 00:12
Are some of you confused about what HOTAS means? It's "hands on throttle and stick" you could have a 1 button twist joystick with a throttle and as long as you can bind every key you need to it, it's a HOTAS. Now I don't see the point of making different versions of the stick just make it so you can separate the throttle from the stick, each portion would need its own USB cable though. This would be cool for people that want to keep it compact or split it for use in a cockpit setup...

1lokos
May-02-2015, 11:44
Are some of you confused about what HOTAS means?

For most people HOTAS = F-16 controls. :D

1lokos
Jun-12-2015, 12:36
http://www.asian-games.com.tw/2015/JS-3601V/images/PaceWheel-140314.mp4

http://www.asian-games.com.tw/2015/JS-3601V/

Attila
Jun-13-2015, 07:35
For most people HOTAS = F-16 controls. :D

HOTAS= Hands On Throttle And Stick

5./JG26_Peete
Jun-15-2015, 13:13
17652
This is my pit... everything is were it was in the real 109... only not exact the same looks as in the real thing.... a well i came close !! [emoji61]

1lokos
Jun-15-2015, 13:23
HOTAS= Hands On Throttle And Stick

Since: :thumbsup:

17653

1lokos
Jul-01-2015, 12:05
Gladiator Light mockup update:

http://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/uploads/monthly_07_2015/post-979-0-91332500-1435734518.jpg
http://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/uploads/monthly_07_2015/post-979-0-56792000-1435734533.jpg
http://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/uploads/monthly_07_2015/post-979-0-59794200-1435734547.jpg

Back side connectors: In "PEDALS" can be connected a VKB T-Rudder (https://flightsimcontrols.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/c8a36d361bc48dc3ebf2bd6fe474cb4f.jpg) or RDR MKXXI (http://forum.vkb-sim.pro/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=1203) (no USB controller versions), in "SYS" a VKB "button box" (http://forum.vkb-sim.pro/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=878) or throttle.

1lokos
Jul-25-2015, 12:41
VKB now have a US retailer, the Stratojet:

http://www.gostratojet.com/TRudderPedals/index.html

For now available the T-Rudder -one axis rudder pedal, perfect for Spitfire. :thumbsup:

ATAG_Flare
Jul-25-2015, 13:35
will this new stick be available to buy from the US site? Any news on a release date?

Cybermat47
Jul-26-2015, 08:45
Forgive my ignorance, but what are HAT and HOTAS?

1lokos
Jul-26-2015, 12:08
HAT - From computer simulator point of view "HAT" in joystick became acronym for the "Point of View Switch" (the one used to change camera angles, if the virtual pilot dont use headtrack device: TrackIr, Freetrack...),
because the most common format used in this switch is the "China Hat" (similar the rural Asiatic hat (https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3036/2955093140_8a6a7a8bf4_z.jpg?zz=1)). Other name is "Coolie Hat" (the people that use this kind of hat) but the "coolie (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coolie)" word has derogatory connotation and became less used.

In real planes this switch (HAT) is introduced in the 50's for control the trim (http://electromechanicalcomponents.guardian-electric.com/Asset/B7%20Switch%20Positions.png), since for the "camera" the pilot use his neck. :D

Sample of "China Hat" in Otto G-2 (B-8) grip: http://www.ottoexcellence.com/assets/item/regular/Cobra21.jpg

In F-16/A-10 grip the various "HAT" are informally called - based on his format:

China
Castle
Valley
Boat (not sure...)

Spider Web and Reversed China Hat on TQS

HOTAS - (as posted above) is acronym for Hands On Throttle and Stick - in military use means that the most
important controls for combat situations are accessible for the pilot without need move the hands from throttle and stick.

In computer simulation this acronym was corrupted for what I call "HOTAS & FOBO": Hands On Throttle and Stick & Fingers On Buttons Only,
because "virpilovs" want map all controls in stick and throttle, including things like start the engine, landing gear, flaps, things the real pilot
control in panel and not in HOTAS.

If you look at ED forum will see that many people don't want the controls like are in the real plane, but in the way that they can map in their "HOTAS & FOBO" (typical the Warthog).

A good example of controversy is Mig-21 controls, in this plane for raise the Landing Gear is need:

- Raise the gear lever lock (without this is not possible raise the gear lever) - by clicking with mouse, press a key or joy' button.
- Raise the gear lever
- Lower the gear lever for neutral position - if you dont do this the air compressed can vent and the gear is not lowered when need. :thumbsup:
- Lower the gear lever lock
- Lower the gear lever for lower the gear

Probable to make things easy for cockpit builders, the LSN people assign one key/button for each of this functions, winch left the "HOTAS & FOBO" people mad. :devilish: :)

BTW - All this above is from "virpilov" "Point of View". :)

invictus84
Aug-05-2015, 00:11
I own a VKB Black Mamba joystick and the Mk. I T-Rudder pedals and can honestly say they are the best "hobby" investments I've made.

The T-Rudder pedals are easily the best I've ever owned...and I've owned a lot (e.g. CH, Saitek, Logitech G940, the old Thrustmaster RCS and Elite). I miss not having toe brakes but you get used to it after a while. Once the US distributor comes online it will make getting them so much easier.

The Black Mamba is great, especially when combined with the Thrustmaster Warthog handle. I'm personally looking forward to VKB's KG-12 bf109 handle for the Mamba...hopefully the U.S. distributor will carry these but if not I'm happy to wire money to those guys. Great stuff and good support!

M_Klimek
Aug-28-2015, 09:48
Hi Gents,

So do we know if this project is still going and if these will become available for purchase any time soon? I'm liking the look of the unit and am looking forward to parting with my $$$.

I'm looking at getting a proper HOTAS setup, at the moment I have the Cyborg Fly 5, although great joystick for good cheap and cheerful price, I'd like more separation between the stick and the throttle so I can position it in a more realistic fashion.

1lokos
Aug-28-2015, 11:02
The last post in Russian forum say that first batch of Gladiator Light (without the "console" for throttle) for test will be make in September. Regular production "latter".

If you are satisfied with this Fly5 stick, buy a standalone throttle, the options are
CH PRO Throttle
Gametrix ECS (https://flightsimcontrols.com/store/available/gametrix-ecs-throttle/)
Saitek Pro Flight Throttle Quadrant

7./JG26_SMOKEJUMPER
Aug-28-2015, 16:47
I'm glad there are guys making toys for us flight simmers.

Pretty cool to have stuff sent all the way from Russia too.

ATAG_Flare
Aug-30-2015, 12:25
Still waiting on this to come out. I really need to replace my logitech and I want this stick! But I can only wait so long . . .

Flare

ATAG_Flare
Sep-21-2015, 15:13
Any news?

1lokos
Sep-21-2015, 18:26
No, only than molds for injection are ready.

ATAG_Colander
Sep-21-2015, 20:16
No, only than molds for injection are ready.

That is the most complicated part and 1/2 the total production costs

invictus84
Sep-21-2015, 20:28
I have the following VKB products and can do nothing except praise the quality and support:

https://flightsimcontrols.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/T-rudder_3.jpeg

https://flightsimcontrols.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/black-mamba-fat-02-853x1024.jpg

I use the joystick handle from my Thrustmaster Warthog with the VKB Black Mamba Joystick. Once the KG-12 control stick handle is released for the Mamba I may sell the Warthog stick....Thrustmaster quality is pretty good but their support ticks me off to no end.

invictus84
Sep-22-2015, 11:35
*sigh* I just realized I posted previously in this thread about my owning the Mamba and T-Rudder pedals. :doh:


Sorry guys. I blame age induced memory loss! http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-QJXjXBxDVrU/TucNp57PU1I/AAAAAAAAAFM/LlZfZMrlm9s/s1600/old-01.gif

1lokos
Sep-24-2015, 12:19
Gladiator first prototype (not mock'up as previous showed) is in test.

http://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/uploads/monthly_09_2015/post-979-0-05896800-1443095980.jpg

Suggestion for default profile, oriented for IL-2:BoS. The configuration can be changed and stored in joystick memory, with 3 selectable "modes".

http://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/uploads/monthly_09_2015/post-979-0-18976000-1443091114.jpg

I use my stick in CloD and DCS Mig's in similar way, the trigger - under modifier button - is the brake, and besides fire guns can fire rockets (DCS).

1lokos
Sep-27-2015, 01:51
New prototype after 20 modifications.

http://s8.postimg.org/s9jpqx4mp/post_979_0_06893000_1443326528.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/s9jpqx4mp/)

"When we created this joystick, we did not want to just make a joystick.
We really wanted to create a joystick with a "special aura".
Do not just give to the joystick good technical characteristics.
And this feeling give to Gladiator a different touch.
This joystick is not just a piece of "plastered" buttons.
Feel like thousands of pilots of World War II, sitting in the cramped cockpit of his Yak or Messerschmitt fought until death.
We assume the risk of bringing to mass market this model of joystick whose grip is not just a piece of plastic.
Many people will don't take into account this device to its modern games.
But we are sure that fans of the World War II era Aviation will appreciate our work and support us."

:thumbsup:

kosmoface
Oct-03-2015, 16:14
But we are sure that fans of the World War II era Aviation will appreciate our work and support us.

Oh I certainly will. Such a pity that the Plus Version is connected with the throttle, but I will buy the Light Controller as soon as it is available.

Great project!:thumbsup:

1lokos
Oct-06-2015, 11:38
Gladiator PRO: metal gimbal with 12 ball bearings, no twist rudder (connection for T-rudder), detachable grip, the base accept Tm grips (Cougar, Warthog...)

VKB/Stratojet announcement: http://www.gostratojet.com/Marketing/VKB_Stratojet_Press_Release_Final.pdf

LuseKofte
Oct-10-2015, 06:50
For me the long stick Gunfighter is the way to go

fgrunseich
Nov-14-2015, 19:15
Wow this is something I would want completely.

isaydefy
Nov-25-2015, 01:58
That Gladiator looks amazing. I can't wait to get my hands on one.

1lokos
Nov-25-2015, 11:36
Gladiator is now in T5 (test prototype nr.5 - in China is common start the production after the T2).
In Russian forum a guy propose that when they reach the T800 change the name of the project for "Terminator". :D

1lokos
Nov-30-2015, 12:40
VKB: "HOORAY! Sample tests "Gladiator T5" finished.
We run production.This week will be an official announcement."

sw1ive
Nov-30-2015, 13:17
we are waiting for...

ATAG_Flare
Dec-01-2015, 00:11
Awesome! Maybe for Christmas?

1lokos
Dec-14-2015, 12:12
19868

1lokos
Jan-07-2016, 11:49
Gladiator "Bourgeois" version. :D

http://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/uploads/monthly_01_2016/post-979-0-64098900-1452156726.jpg

Jeast
Jan-07-2016, 13:49
Wow! Very nice! Engineeringasm..

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

invictus84
Jan-07-2016, 23:37
Gladiator "Bourgeois" version. :D

http://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/uploads/monthly_01_2016/post-979-0-64098900-1452156726.jpg

Looks like the same gimble in the new Mamba. Sweet.

I ordered the gimble upgrade for my Mamba so I am hoping they release it soon.

ATAG_Flare
Jan-14-2016, 13:25
When will this be available?

Any news?

ATAG_Flare
Jan-25-2016, 11:19
Bump

1lokos
Jan-25-2016, 12:18
Probable only in end of Q1 2016... and Stratojet forbidden VKB show any new pictures.

Small "teaser" of VKB throttle:

"Great is the throttle. Iron. Stylish. Trastmaster will cry."

Will be customized and optimized for WWII planes, not just other DéJa vù "F-something" replica.

1lokos
Jan-28-2016, 10:50
"The first model of the (throttle) will be stylized aircraft of WWII.

This is not a copy of the (real) throttle. Design style close to the Fw-190 and Mustang."


:thumbsup::-)

1lokos
Feb-14-2016, 10:12
As pictures are forbidden (be commercial partner), a supposedly sketch of the throttle - suitable for "prop planes, jets and spacecrafts"). :D

http://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/uploads/monthly_02_2016/post-6112-0-82672000-1455392215_thumb.gif

1lokos
Mar-14-2016, 11:54
http://s15.postimg.org/xja7pjpbv/Gladiator_Sample_2.jpg (http://postimage.org/)
how to take a screen shot (http://postimage.org/app.php)

rel4y
Mar-15-2016, 13:17
Is the trigger made out of metal? That and the metal gimbal system of the Pro would make this little critter pretty awesome. Too bad VKB designed it to only have a range of +-20° (?). Do you know if the floor mounted stick has the same gimbal system as the short one?

1lokos
Mar-15-2016, 14:26
No, the trigger in Gladiator is plastic.

But owners of T-Rudder MK.III can use a metal trigger (the gift key chain with KG-12B metal trigger). :thumbsup:

http://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/uploads/monthly_02_2016/post-6112-0-27690500-1455994413.jpg
http://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/uploads/monthly_02_2016/post-6112-0-77256000-1455994332.jpg

The gimbal will be the same, but extended version will use different CAM profile and springs.

ATAG_Colander
Mar-15-2016, 15:07
A cat ready to dogfight? :)

Fritz Wolf
Mar-16-2016, 10:54
I'm part of the 10% of humans that are left handed...
It would be impossible for me to use that!

Ambidextrous variant should be in mind of every designer all the time.

1lokos
Mar-21-2016, 12:13
http://www.gostratojet.com/Marketing/Gladiator_Box_1.jpg

"The Gladiator will have an MSRP of $99.99 in North America and will be sold through Stratojet and select online retailers such as Amazon.com."

ETA is more ~8/10 weeks.

Karaya
Apr-08-2016, 20:44
Looking at the base of the Gladiator:

How do they keep the joystick from sliding around the table? Doesnt look like it has rubber pads underneath to keep it in place!?

1lokos
Apr-09-2016, 09:59
Don't know... but in Cobra M-5 (VKB project for Defender) the base plate is ~3mm metal to add weight to joystick:

http://avia-sim.ru/forum/download/file.php?id=4147

jcenzano
May-06-2016, 00:04
Looking at the base of the Gladiator:

How do they keep the joystick from sliding around the table? Doesnt look like it has rubber pads underneath to keep it in place!?
It might not be very stylish, but I will give you the best solution
BLU-TAC

I have a force sensing mod of cougar fixed with some big chunks of bluetac to the desk and it does not move a mili.

EmRaptor
May-06-2016, 10:43
So there is going to be a seperate throttle? If so I'm sold.

1lokos
May-16-2016, 17:45
OK folks. Gladiator and Gladitator PRO is ready to pre-order. :D

Delivery for June (2016).



FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

T-Rudder Mk.IV Pedals, Gladiator and Gladiator Pro Joystick Pre-Order Launch

(Shenzhen, China / Riverside, CA USA) - May 17, 2016 - VKB Industries and Stratojet Flight Controllers are proud to announce the opening of pre-orders for their new T-Rudder Mk.IV pedals, Gladiator and Gladiator Pro joysticks.

T-Rudder Mk.IV

VKB engineers have further refined the hugely popular T-Rudder pedals and they are shipping soon. The T-Rudder Mk.IV pedals offer a new heel pad design that makes adjustment even easier and more stable than before. Virtual Toe-Brakes will also be available via software allowing users maximum functionality. This penultimate design will serve flight-simmers of all stripes for years to come. Pre-Orders are now available through Stratojet. MSRP is $249.99 USD in North America. Pre-orders will also be available soon from FSC VKB Europe.

22749

Gladiator Joystick

Our Gladiator joystick is now available for pre-order. The Gladiator will be a perfect fit for those pilots who want an excellent stick with high build quality, immersive design and precise handling - all for a reasonable price. The Gladiator will be available in North America from Stratojet. MSRP is $99.99 USD.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-34A6In5t8


227502275122752

Gladiator Pro Joystick

And finally the Gladiator Pro joystick is also available for pre-order at Stratojet. The Gladiator Pro is the same form factor as the Gladiator, but it will include our all-metal next-generation gimbal with changeable cams. The Gladiator Pro does not include the twist function. The Gladiator Pro is designed for the discerning flight simmer who values extra precision and extremely rugged internals. Both the Gladiator and Gladiator Pro have inputs for VKB brand rudder pedals allowing the stick and pedals to be seen as a single device by your PC. MSRP is $249.99 USD.


227532275422755

Up, Up and Away!

This announcement ends the first phase of expansion of VKB Industries. However, it signals the beginning of an even greater expansion of VKB's product line and operations on a global scale. It will take some time, but VKB Industries and her partners are committed to bringing flight-simmers and gamers the best controllers for their favorite titles. Please join the Facebook page for both VKB Sim and Stratojet to stay on top of all the latest VKB news and information throughout 2016 and beyond.

Please visit the official VKB forum at http://forum.vkb-sim.pro to keep up to date on production and availability news for our upcoming products. Make sure to notice our new English language section managed by Stratojet. A new English language version of the official VKB website (http://vkb-sim.pro) will be coming soon.

The VKB and Stratojet Teams



BTW - Stratojet deal only with American and Canada market...

Barone
May-16-2016, 17:53
And for europe (not Russia)?
The gladiator pro will be also compatibile with the stick of the warthog?

Inviato dal mio GT-I9300 utilizzando Tapatalk

Karaya
May-16-2016, 18:22
Yea, any news on European preorder sale?

1lokos
May-16-2016, 18:33
And for europe (not Russia)?

What I know for Europe is that other brand will sold a renamed version of Gladiator (basic model only), with "simplifications" (ready: dumb down...

For Asia, Europe and Latin America markets VKB dont will sold the basic Gladiator - these markets are reserved for their partnership Asian-Games, that will sold the
Cobra V6 - a Gladiator with some simplifications in electronics...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sM2q_GjRc2A

At least the USB controller is ARM 32 bits based, rest know if the sensor will be the same VKB MaRS in digital mode. (1)

Fligthsimcontrols can sold VKB Gladiator PRO for Europe, not the basic version.

EDIT - (1) I ask for UIV (VKB) and their (usual slippery) answer indicates the same MaRS sensor of Gladiator in "Cobra V6".



Q - This Cobra V6 for Europe, Latin American ... markets will use the same MaRS sensors of Gladiator in X, Y axis or a dumb down version?

A- Difference:
1) Cobra V6 use potentiometer for twist (rudder). Gladiator - MaRS (in twist rudder).
2) Firmware for Cobra V6 is simple (only calibration, deadzones and precision functions).


Firmware simplifications is not issue for ~90% of users, they barrely can assign controls in game GUI, no way to deal with the powerful and obscure VKB Configurator for firmware of NJoy32 PRO, this thing is more complicated than BoS Mission Editor. :D

And "twist rudder", mehhh :-P

LuseKofte
May-28-2016, 07:07
http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/x~sAAOSwxN5WVe0o/s-l1600.jpg

When WW2 turned late 42 in East front and the russians started to take over German equipment they sent it for evaluation. During the war they adapted some of the Germans ideas and used it. Like the KG 12- 13 stick.

I did not know they stuck with that design up to the MIG 15 -17

http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/23QAAOSwt6ZWVe07/s-l1600.jpg

If things had been different for me, if I had not invested in another authentic stick already and in new MGF rudder pedals I would have bought this.
At first glimse this might seem expensive. But it is equivalent with a warthog and MGF rudder pedal

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Soviet-Aircraft-MIG-15-MIG-17-CONTROL-STICK-JOYSTICK-WAS-FED-Air-Force-RUSSIAN/191880042838?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%2 6asc%3D36892%26meid%3D257458e646e44fb2b4a0a3cbc647 d2b9%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D5%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D2619 41244576]eBay

1lokos
May-28-2016, 10:44
http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/x~sAAOSwxN5WVe0o/s-l1600.jpg

When WW2 turned late 42 in East front and the russians started to take over German equipment they sent it for evaluation. During the war they adapted some of the Germans ideas and used it. Like the KG 12- 13 stick.

I did not know they stuck with that design up to the MIG 15 -17



Kg-12/13* based stick grip remain in use in Eastern block trainers up to 60/70's. E. Soko G-2 Galeb (http://flymefriendly.com/gallery/d/242-1/YU-YEA-SokoG-2A-Galeb-cockpit1.jpg).

* 12 or 13 versions are the same stick, the difference in number refer to the manufacturer (eg. Hersteller: Bruhn).

BTW - For rich grognards, museum quality replicas of KG-13 stick, adaptable for joystick use, is available:

http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/4255604/Luftwaffe_controls_for_simmers#Post4255604

Curiosity, BF 109-E exported to Swiss don't use KG-12/13 grips, but the spade version KG-11.

22936

LuseKofte
May-28-2016, 16:29
I have been looking for such a thing for years, That KG 13 is awesome

MalteHess1997
May-29-2016, 14:29
VKB Gladiator

http://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/uploads/monthly_01_2015/post-979-0-98892700-1422699257.jpg
http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/14343-vkb-gladiator-joystick-project/#entry227060

Since the target is a "budget" (80-90$) joystick is not HOTAS, but all in one piece. The HOTAS format double the price.

8 axis
1 HAT
39 buttons - include 5 Encoders*
MaRS digital sensor in X,Y, rudder (twist) axis.
Potentiometer on other 5 axis (throttle, mixture, flaps...).

* Rotaries with encoder allow "trim on wheels" in certain WWII Combat Flight Game. :D
Or can be used to set DI, Course Setter, Bombsight, gunsight... in CLoD.

"Why WWII piston propeller plane style?
1) The market is already full of joysticks from leading brands, stylized as modern combat aircraft.
2) Most of virtual pilots to fly it on the pistons propeller planes.
3) I love piston aircraft of that era, and since the final decision to launch the project to take me, I quickly and without a doubt chose piston design and ergonomics. Here and so took office."

The grip with 3 buttons and HAT is based on Luftwaffe KG12 grip with some concessions, the pinkie button is located more high/accessible and the B-Knopf button is a HAT switch.

Sokol1 That is nice!

1lokos
Jun-04-2016, 12:44
23000

1lokos
Jun-15-2016, 13:23
Gladiator PRO "review" by Nerd Tech.

http://nerdtechy.com/vkb-sim-gladiator-pro-joystick-review

Notice that this blog is sponsored (http://nerdtechy.com/disclosure) by Amazon, that accept Gladiator's pre-order. :)

T-Rudder Mk. IV review.

http://nerdtechy.com/vkb-sim-t-rudder-mk-iv-flight-simulator-pedals-review

EDIT - Accord VKB this guy did their "review" only with pictures from the Web.

1lokos
Jun-28-2016, 18:51
Some info about sales of VKB Gladiator, Gladiator PRO and T-Rudder Mk.IV by VKB PR.

http://forum.vkb-sim.pro/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=2243

Now listed on Amazon (not available yet):

https://www.amazon.com/Gladiator-Joystick-Flight-Simulator-Controller-Stick/dp/B01G6GT49O/ref=redir_mobile_desktop?ie=UTF8&dpID=31KPUt%2Bzv1L&dpPl=1&keywords=VKB%20Sim.&pi=SX200_QL40&qid=1466315173&ref=plSrch&ref_=mp_s_a_1_1&sr=8-1

https://www.amazon.com/Gladiator-Joystick-Flight-Simulator-Controller-Stick/dp/B01G6GT3BI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1467154329&sr=8-1&keywords=gladiator+pro

https://www.amazon.com/T-Rudder-Mk-IV-Flight-Simulator-Pedals-Linux/dp/B01G6GT4A8/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1467154371&sr=8-1&keywords=t-rudder

1lokos
Jul-01-2016, 12:34
Stratojet is now shipping the first pre-order Gladiator for USA market.

http://forum.vkb-sim.pro/viewtopic.php?f=28&p=22177#p22177

Gizz
Jul-04-2016, 10:56
im not sure weather to grab this when it comes up for sale in Europe or wait on the gunfighter...i like the look of the gunfighter better and it will have the better gimbals and the full metal grip, but i need something now damnit! my x52p stick is driving me nuts, working fine but... meh...

i actually quite like the x52 throttle but i need a new stick... if they would give us a damn date and price i would be happy:grrr:

1lokos
Jul-04-2016, 13:17
im not sure weather to grab this when it comes up for sale in Europe or wait on the gunfighter...i like the look of the gunfighter better and it will have the better gimbals and the full metal grip, but i need something now damnit!


Some clarifications - for not frustrate their expectations after:

VKB Gladiator will be not sold in Europe, in this place will be sold a simplified version under other brand (business agreements... see previous posts).

Gunfighter gimbal will be the same used on Gladiator PRO, the difference is that their case will be in metal.
They don't come with "full metal grip" *, come with the same plastic KG12 grip of Gladiator/Gladiator PRO.

* A KG12 like "full metal grip" will be sold (later, their molds depends on Gladiator market success for financing) as optional for Gunfighter, for around ~190$.

BTW - You can use your Saitek X-52 throttle, if still working OK, together with this joysticks.

1lokos
Jul-12-2016, 10:23
"Plan start sending Gladiators Pro next week."

1lokos
Jul-16-2016, 13:25
Additional information about Gladiator (translated using GT :D ):

EDIT - Official English version posted in VKB forum: http://forum.vkb-sim.pro/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=2282



Since the idea of ​​a Gladiator to its appearance in the form of finished product took two years.

http://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/uploads/monthly_07_2016/post-979-0-08244800-1468644564.jpg

We did not make Gladiator development a secret and share information about the creation of this joystick with virtual pilots community.
We are very pleased that our development has caused quite a lot of interest on your part.
In this topic we will briefly explain what in the end we have got and what a Gladiator.
The format "question and answer" most suited for the occasion.
So, let's begin.

Question: Why was chosen design in the style of aircraft of World War II?

Answer: There are several reasons.
Firstly, the WKB team prefers simulators with piston engines aircraft's (warbirds) and early jet's.
WWII - a part of our history that should not be forgotten.
Second, the market is not saturated with joysticks with this design.
There is only Saitek Aviator and there is fierce competition (in "jet's/spaceships" joystick design).
But developing this model, we tried to put a functional joystick, sufficient not only for the simulation of WWII.
Fortunately, the capabilities of our controllers permit.

Question: What is the mechanism of loading (gimbal) located inside the joystick Gladiator?

Answer: WKB was one of the main developers of Defender Cobra M5 joystick.
For 5 years of production and operation of this joystick, we studied the strengths and weaknesses of its design.
We made a number of improvements and improved design of the loading mechanism (gimbal).

http://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/uploads/monthly_07_2016/post-979-0-23647900-1468644678.jpghttp://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/uploads/monthly_07_2016/post-979-0-37463600-1468644625.jpg

Replaced plastic material. Now loading mechanism (gimbal) is made of glass fiber reinforced plastic, which is sturdier.
On the gimbal axes are made grooves for the lubrication of this axes.
Grease is not squeezed out of the holes and running uniformly over its entire surface.
We used a thick damping grease, which makes the course knob "viscous".
We also improved the mold for casting, trying to fit as much as possible the details of each other.
It was finalized finalized twist (rudder) mechanism.
Gladiator twist is reinforced and has a stiffer spring.
This video demonstrates the difference between the behavior of the Gladiator loading mechanism (gimbal) from its predecessor - Defender Cobra M5.

J7L_AmneTuU

Question: Why the central position of Gladiator handle Gladiator has an area of ​​very soft run with virtually no resistance.
This is backlash?

Answer: No, we did it on purpose.
Analysis of virtual pilots preferences showed that many prefer sticks with a very soft behavior at the center.
The strong "step" (of other joysticks), which holds the handle in the center prevents accurate aiming.
To deflect the grip a very small angle it is necessary to make an effort to overcome this "step". In one way this makes feel the center "step" on joystick axis, but on other way prevents precise control in approximately central position.
What is important is balance. And we have tried to implement it. To give priority to the soft behavior handle in the middle, rather than clear and hard to return to the center.
Appointment damper grease - remove the "emptiness" of the movement handle in a near-central zone.
We understand pilots like of such behavior, whose plane hangs "on the handle."
And for the pilots with little experience this can cause problems.
In this case, we recommend to increase the pitch and roll axes dead zone using WIZZO utility.
In the (default) factory settings, it has a very small value.
Again, we did it on purpose to give the fullest possible axes control zone roll and pitch.

Question: Why in joystick factory (default) settings is a fairly large value of the dead zone put the on twist axis (rudder)?

Answer: This is done to parry "parasitic" twist deviations when the pilot operates only on the roll\pitch axes. You can change "twist" deadzone by using WIZZO program.

Question: Why the joystick grip in the center position is rotated by a small angle counterclockwise.

Answer: This is related to ergonomics. It is much easier to keep the grip when she has a little twist counterclockwise. In many real-world aircraft the grip set just so, with a little twist.

Question: Is it possible to connected control additional devices to Gladiator?

Answer: Yes.

http://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/uploads/monthly_07_2016/post-979-0-61219100-1468644697.jpghttp://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/uploads/monthly_07_2016/post-979-0-80307200-1468644644.jpg


In the panel in front of Gladiator is located two connectors.
In "Pedals" connector can be connected the rudder pedals VKB T-Rudder and WKB-Mk18-Mk21 pedals.
"SYS" connector is for connecting control devices that still in development - throttle and additional multifunction panel.

Q: What options are available to upgrade Gladiator?

Answer: Gladiator laid enough rich features upgrade.
You can replace the joystick gimbal with all metal (CAM) centering mechanism, making your joystick a Gladiator Pro.

http://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/uploads/monthly_07_2016/post-979-0-59080900-1468647776.jpg

Gladiator PRO all metal centering mechanism (gimbal) has a detachable rod for grip.
With a adapter you can install the grip of Defender Cobra M5 or Trustmaster Warthog (Cougar) joysticks.
WKB is also developing a new multi-function grip for lovers of modern combat aircraft or space simulators.
Gladiator controller allows you to connect additional axes and buttons. Controller PCB is marked with the appropriate space for additional sealing connectors.

Q: What controller is installed in the Gladiator joystick?
Answer: Gladiator (controller) is based on platform of our own development - NJoy32.

http://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/uploads/monthly_07_2016/post-979-0-37773300-1468644607.jpg

It is a powerful 32-bit ARM-controller. The controller operates at the USB-protocol. The main principle of the controller - software and driver independence.
This means that for normal operation of the device does not need install third-party drivers and software.
The controller has the ability to upgrade firmware via USB.
In Gladiator KG12 grip is set another microcontroller.
It collects information of twist axis (rudder) and button pressing on grip and sends it to the main controller via a digital protocol using a three-wire interface.

Question: What sensors are used?
A: Roll and pitch axis use separate non-contact magnetic sensors MaRS (Magneto Resistive Sensor).

http://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/uploads/monthly_07_2016/post-979-0-10955400-1468644845.jpg

The concept of "one sensor for each axis" helps to eliminate parasitic influence of one axis to the other in case of wear joystick boot mechanism.
Total operating MaRS sensors showed his best side. High accuracy, linearity and stability - a "calling card" of MaRS probes.
MaRS sensor is also mounted on joystick twist axis (rudder).

http://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/uploads/monthly_07_2016/post-979-0-54513300-1468644664.jpg

In 2004 WKB became one of the first to use MARS sensors in pedals and joysticks.
Currently, we are the first to use high-precision non-contact sensor for the twist (rudder) in our first mass joystick.
Rudder axis just is important for aircraft operation as well was pitch and roll axes!
In addition to high-precision, non-contact twist (rudder) design greatly extends the life of the joystick.

Q: What is WIZZO?

Answer: WIZZO - is a utility designed to configure the joystick controller.

http://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/uploads/monthly_07_2016/post-979-0-90692300-1468646771.jpg

WIZZO has a simple and intuitive interface and currently implements the following functionality: calibration of the joystick axes, setting "dead zones", the reverse axes.
The utility has the ability to load and save profiles of axes and joystick buttons.
Also, using this tool, you can enter the joystick in firmware update mode.
WIZZO program is not necessary for the operation of the joystick.
She only writes data to controller memory.
Suffice it once to write the data and then never run the program WIZZO.
Due saved settings in its own non-volatile memory, the Gladiator will work the same on different computers and operating systems and does not require re-configuration and calibration.

WIZZO is available for download here http://ftp.vkb-sim.pro/Programms/

Question: Why WIZZO?

The answer: a Weapon Systems Officer ( "WSO", in English is pronounced "wizzo").
As called the weapons operator in airplanes and helicopters.
And also it's a great name for joystick configuration utility :-)

Question: Is it possible configure Gladiator via VKB Device Config program?
Answer: Yes, you can.

http://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/uploads/monthly_07_2016/post-979-0-28690800-1468646881.jpg

A most complete joystick customization joystick is done with this program.
But VKB Device Config utility requires knowledge for working with her.
We recommend the use of this utility only for advanced users who are familiar with other products WKB.
Profiles configured in VKB Device Config program can be used in WIZZO.
In the near future we will prepare profiles that implement different functions for buttons and joystick axes.
It will be enough to select the appropriate profile and upload it to the controller Gladiator.
We started to develop the tool WIZZO PRO, which later will replaced VKB Device Config.

Q: Do I need calibrate the joystick in the Windows Control Panel?
Answer: Absolutely not!

http://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/uploads/monthly_07_2016/post-979-0-13521300-1468644721.jpg
Text in the balloon: "For what?"

This joystick has its own calibration and produces ready-calibrated data to the operating system.


BTW - Here a Gladiator profile (done with VKB Device Config software) that allow joystick 15 physical buttons - not counting the pinkie button used as "shift" - and HAT execute 50 functions.

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2843296&postcount=13

1lokos
Jul-28-2016, 11:12
Screwdriver "review":

http://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/topic/2579-gladiator-novyj-byudzhetnyj-dzhoj-ot-vkb/page-68#entry434372
http://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/topic/2579-gladiator-novyj-byudzhetnyj-dzhoj-ot-vkb/page-68#entry434385

User made video - trigger flip @ 2:24:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gyK6wGUPvXQ

Obs - in this model was installed the metal grip from keychain gift for some pre-orders.

Karaya
Jul-29-2016, 05:51
I'm really interested in the Gladiator Pro version. Is there info on how much it's going to cost in Europe? I know the US version retails at ~250$ but I'm fairly sure that the EU version will cost at least the same in € if not a tad more.

1lokos
Jul-29-2016, 10:13
There a section for Europe costumers in VKB forum, but the know seller in the area dont talk much.

http://forum.vkb-sim.pro/viewforum.php?f=29

IMO - My guess is, until now he don't receive the news products, and as the past history is delay after delays, don't left much to say...

And this... "incident" give a impression that for VKB PR, the commercial world for VKB is composed only by USA and your "backyard" Canada. :)

http://forum.vkb-sim.pro/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=2292

1lokos
Jul-29-2016, 11:49
In Amazon users review someone complain that Gladiator is "loose" in center, more in Y axis, as in this video:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l91bvfoHfD0

UIV (VKB) explain this backlash (GT :whacky4: )



Gladiator is a budget joystick completely made ​​of plastic.
Any plastic joystick has backlash. Only a metal gimbal made ​​on high-precision CNC machines, all axes on bearings can provide a backlash "free" mechanism.
Gladiator PRO has this metal gimbal option.

In plastic gimbal mechanims we tried make the backlash minimum.
Manufacturers of plastic joysticks "hide" the backlash in different ways.

Set non adjustable deadzones in the controller (firmware), "overload" the gimbal using strong springs or even using a "cone lock" - Saitek joysticks use both.

It all boils down to the fact that in the center position the joystick handle is very inconvenient to work.

The high strength of the pushing handle to the place makes precise aiming and "steer" not comfortable.

Our goal was make Gladiator with a very soft center.
In the loading mechanism of Gladiator, a set of trade-offs between casting precision parts, contact area, materials and lubricant.

In the development process has been made ​​and tested a lot of different options.
Owners of joystick Cobra M-5 that compare the work of their loading mechanism with Gladiator, will feel the difference immediately.

Explain more why in the middle of pitch is more than in roll.

First, Gladiator was designed for maneuvering air combat (dogfights), and not for "Kosmosimov"*.

How we manage the joystick during the fight? First working on roll to rotate the plane of the plane to the desired angle, but the anticipation when shooting we set working pen on the pitch. Pulling or pushing the handle. More than a mild stroke in the middle of the pitch will give a more comfortable choice of preemption.
A damping grease to handle return mechanism just gives a "tough" course of the handle in the middle, removing the "emptiness" of its movement.

We understood the majority of joysticks on the market is "hard" in the center.
And some "virpilots" may dont like of Gladiator. But we are not afraid of changes, our task is to give a good control device, not a "cut down" money for a new design of the new joystick. Joystick market is not crowded and the new models come out is not very often.


* Opera resume: For fly "Kosmosimov" or "F-XY fly-by-wire" Gladiator may not the best option. :joystick: ;)

vranac
Jul-29-2016, 11:57
I'm really interested in the Gladiator Pro version. Is there info on how much it's going to cost in Europe? I know the US version retails at ~250$ but I'm fairly sure that the EU version will cost at least the same in € if not a tad more.

Uiv said that the price will be the same everywhere, in Russia, Asia and in America. He didn't mention Europe but I think he just missed it.

http://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/topic/4607-gladiator-v-voprosah-i-otvetah/#entry432397

At the Russian VKB shop the price is 220$.

http://shop.vkb-sim.pro/items/gladiator-pro/

ATAG_Knuckles
Jul-29-2016, 14:20
I received the Gladiator pro from the first batch sent, unfortunately I wont be able to use it as the buttons are on the bottom (which I didnt pay attention to at first)
so !!! its up for grabs, I live in Arizona so shipping out of country could be an issue

PM if interested

PhoenixCNE
Jul-29-2016, 18:55
I have 2 questions before I start hassling Knuckles for that stick :) Do you know when the gladiator plus pro is coming out? and will they be making an adapter to attach warthog stick?

1lokos
Jul-29-2016, 19:16
Do you know when the gladiator plus pro is coming out? and will they be making an adapter to attach warthog stick?

If you mean the "HOTAS/console" (http://vkb-sim.pro/project/gladiator-plus/) version with integrated throttle, this was postponed for redesign and they are not sure if the market want this.

Adapter for Warthog/Cougar/Cobra M-5 grips for Gladiator PRO and the incoming Gunfighter will be available soon - probable in September together with Gunfighter.

BTW - Although Gladiator KG-12 grip has only two buttons on top, his usability is equals, for example, T.1600M 4 buttons,
because the pinkie button set as "shift" double their functions, so is 2 physical + 2 virtual buttons, usable with only one hand,
same number of functions than T.16000M grip.
This in MODE 1, in MODE 2 they can be set of different functions, e.g. the trigger can be used as brake for Spit/Hurri/Yak.

PhoenixCNE
Jul-29-2016, 20:13
If you mean the "HOTAS/console" (http://vkb-sim.pro/project/gladiator-plus/) version with integrated throttle, this was postponed for redesign and they are not sure if the market want this.

Adapter for Warthog/Cougar/Cobra M-5 grips for Gladiator PRO and the incoming Gunfighter will be available soon - probable in September together with Gunfighter.

BTW - Although Gladiator KG-12 grip has only two buttons on top, his usability is equals, for example, T.1600M 4 buttons,
because the pinkie button set as "shift" double their functions, so is 2 physical + 2 virtual buttons, usable with only one hand,
same number of functions than T.16000M grip.
This in MODE 1, in MODE 2 they can be set of different functions, e.g. the trigger can be used as brake for Spit/Hurri/Yak.

Thanks for the quick response, its a shame they may scrap the throttle idea I was looking for something a bit more with the era than the warthog throttle I am currently using. I suppose I will just grab a couple Saitek throttle quadrants once they are available again and be happy with it. I love the KG-12 grip, it definitely wouldn't end up in a drawer but I do like flying DCS as well and the warthog stick+gladiator base would be very nice. I really shouldn't even be asking, I still have 1 new warthog stick I need to sell, but I love the gladiator pro gimbal and would like to convert my current warthog base to a friction/non return to center setup for the bit of helicopter flying I have been attempting.

** On a side note .. any chance you know if there are ANY future plans for them to make a flight yoke that isn't junk? I would really like one for the bomber flying (not that its necessary but I think it would be fun) but everything that is out atm is either super expensive or looks to be junk

1lokos
Jul-29-2016, 21:03
They have on design stage two standalone throttles, one for modern/spacial planes/"kosmoplanes" and one suitable for WWII planes with levers for pop pitch, mixture... but this only for 2017.

1lokos
Jul-30-2016, 18:37
https://s32.postimg.org/jqp2knrs5/Joy_Tester2_Gladiator.png


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhlZHE4ZY-I#t=10

1lokos
Jul-31-2016, 13:35
AIRROW Flight Stick by Speedlink - OEM version of VKB Gladiator for Europe market:

24019

https://www.data4u.ch/packshot/PCZ/PEX0HW73667/PEX0HW73667_1.jpg

http://www.speedlink.com/?p=2&cat=214&pid=39315&paus=1

Is a "budget" version of VKB Gladiator, differences:

- Ordinary potentiometer in twist rudder axis, instead the contactless sensor used in Gladiator (In X,Y axis the contactless sensor is used).

- No input/support for T-Rudder or other VKB future controllers (throttle, button panels).

- Simplified firmware without support for load custom profiles.

Pre-order in one Eurore seller - it seems that these "simplifications" have not reflected in the price...

https://www.exlibris.ch/fr/jeux/pc/accessoires/speedlink-airrow-flightstick-black/id/4027301432244

ATAG_Highseas
Jul-31-2016, 15:44
AIRROW Flight Stick by Speedlink - OEM version of VKB Gladiator for Europe market:

24019

https://www.data4u.ch/packshot/PCZ/PEX0HW73667/PEX0HW73667_1.jpg

http://www.speedlink.com/?p=2&cat=214&pid=39315&paus=1

Is a "budget" version of VKB Gladiator, differences:

- Ordinary potentiometer in twist rudder axis, instead the contactless sensor used in Gladiator (In X,Y axis the contactless sensor is used).

- No input/support for T-Rudder or other VKB future controllers (throttle, button panels).

- Simplified firmware without support for load custom profiles.

Pre-order in one Eurore seller - it seems that these "simplifications" have not reflected in the price...

https://www.exlibris.ch/fr/jeux/pc/accessoires/speedlink-airrow-flightstick-black/id/4027301432244

It'a full metal gimbal gunfighter for me or nothing at all !

Cheers for the heads up though !


EDIT:

actually... that particular stick looks pretty erm...

man.. like a massive let down.

Budget or not...

I don't get it.

:dazed:

Neither would I buy it.

1lokos
Jul-31-2016, 16:09
LOL.

Be look only, between the two in above linked video I pick the one from right side without think twice (and I have the one in the left side), I am curious in test this "soft center" in WWII planes dogfight.

https://youtu.be/GhlZHE4ZY-I

BOO
Jul-31-2016, 17:14
Shame but hey ho

in the spirit of that comparison why dont we compare a 1982 ford fiesta door shutting with a brand new bmw 5 series.........i mean, the poor TM is even sellotaped together!!! :-)

1lokos
Jul-31-2016, 17:34
But the natural concurrent Gladiator need beat is T16000M, they are the ones with similar characteristics - contactless sensor - in the 50-100$ price range, and Tm model have advantage in price. USA seller inflate the Gladiator initially planed price (70/80).

Price wise will be fair compare Gladiator with X-52 too and this have advantage in functions number.

Well looks that Gladiator "fight" will be not easy. :D

dburne
Jul-31-2016, 17:37
I too am anxiously keeping an eye out for the all metal Gunfighter.

It would take a lot for me to replace my Warthog with extension, but that one has me tempted.

PhoenixCNE
Jul-31-2016, 22:25
I too am anxiously keeping an eye out for the all metal Gunfighter.

It would take a lot for me to replace my Warthog with extension, but that one has me tempted.

The main thing that had me excited was the talk from VKB of an adapter so one could swap the warthog grip onto the metal gimbal :D ** I know this has been available before but getting a mamba is kinda out of the question.

dburne
Aug-01-2016, 07:03
The main thing that had me excited was the talk from VKB of an adapter so one could swap the warthog grip onto the metal gimbal :D ** I know this has been available before but getting a mamba is kinda out of the question.

Agreed, that has me very interested as well.

ATAG_Highseas
Aug-01-2016, 07:11
Agreed, that has me very interested as well.

Well that makes three of us.

The Gunfighter looks like the last stick you would ever need to buy. (Assuming that doesn't end up getting the plastic fantastic treatment as well... )


In fact... if someone just made a decent metal gimbal for the Warthog I'd be more than happy.

Bit surprised nobody has.

1lokos
Aug-01-2016, 09:21
The Gunfighter looks like the last stick you would ever need to buy. (Assuming that doesn't end up getting the plastic fantastic treatment as well... )


I know that you mean a bolt on replacement gimbal - what is not available, from time to time someone show a prototype (http://i.imgur.com/ksscSns.jpg) but end only in this...

BAUR make a suitable all metal and bearings CAM gimbal (he is the guy who "invent" CAM for commercial joystick gimbal).

http://avia-sim.ru/forum/download/file.php?id=7497

But his gimbal geometry require different type of contact less sensor than the "3D" used in Warthog, and thus a new compatible USB controller for X,Y axis - so if the user want continues use TARGET for that "press joy button to send keyboard keypress" this mean make Warthog two sticks for Windows/Games, with new controller for X,Y axis and the original controller for the rest (buttons, HAT's). :whacky4: If not, end with a new PnP HID controller.

From this point of view VKB Gunfighter will the the ideal option, buy this stick, remove the plastic KG-12 grip (and sell for me :D ) attach Warthog grip and voilà. :joystick:

Most of one do with TARGET can be done with VKB Config Soft and in a more intelligent way, is not need program running in games background, profiles is stored in joystick controller EPROM memory. :thumbsup:

dburne
Aug-01-2016, 10:56
Most of one do with TARGET can be done with VKB Config Soft and in a more intelligent way, is not need program running in games background, profiles is stored in joystick controller EPROM memory. :thumbsup:

Does the EPROM memory support saving several different joystick input profiles?

While yes the TARGET software does require to be running , it is not that big a footprint and the depth one can program with it, especially with the script editor, is very good.

1lokos
Aug-01-2016, 12:21
AFAIK one profile per time, if want use a different profile than the actual run VKB Config Software and load then.

Profiles can be saved as text file (.cfg) in some computer folder.

ATAG_Highseas
Aug-01-2016, 13:09
From this point of view VKB Gunfighter will the the ideal option, buy this stick, remove the plastic KG-12 grip (and sell for me :D ) attach Warthog grip and voilà. :joystick:

Most of one do with TARGET can be done with VKB Config Soft and in a more intelligent way, is not need program running in games background, profiles is stored in joystick controller EPROM memory. :thumbsup:

Thast the plan !

ATAG_Highseas
Aug-01-2016, 13:46
Soooo...

How come nobody else is making decent joysticks... ?

Rudder pedals have had some love...

From people like Milan (crosswinds), and Slaw (Slawdevice)

Never tried crosswinds... but I did go a bit mad though and bought some Slaw pedals... and man... they are SOLID. Cam centering bf109 which i shamelessly use to fly Red

I'm really glad I went a bit mad with that too. Took me a while to rebalance the books here at Highseas HQ. Luckily Mrs Highseas knows just how important pretending to be flying a plane for the RAF in 1940 really is.

She really is great !!


... but yeah... You could club 109's out of the sky with the Slaws. Kind of a pity I have to use them as rudders really as I'm terrible at flying planes...

hahah !!

I'd spend that kind of money again though... for a REALLY GOOD joystick. and the Warthog, good as it can be... really ain't good enough. The innards are just not up to it.

It's not the last stick I will ever buy.



Really hoping the VKB gunfighter is actually going to come to fruition.

Dont think I've ever spent so much money on equipment... for a "game"...

no regrets on spending what I have mind... for this one game I think its fair to say I'm searching for perfection.


Last I heard from VKB (Europe) was that they expected the gunfighter to be available no earlier than september

really hope they don't cheap out on it. I don't want any more plastic short cuts.

ATAG_Flare
Aug-02-2016, 01:19
I hope the gunfighter or gladiator ends up being a good choice. I bought a Cobra M5, with the contact less sensors (I think - perhaps Sokol1 would know if it has them or not) but the rudder pot always got off centre. I did fix it after taking it all apart but I'm still not 100% happy with it. One thing is it squeaks like a deranged duck.

The problem with getting a Gladiator or Gunfighter is I just got a new stick this spring, and if I got one of those I'd have to get rudder pedals and maybe a track IR. Not sure if the new stick (probably worth it by itself) is worth getting if I need to get other peripherals as well.

ATAG_Highseas
Aug-02-2016, 04:17
If I got one of those I'd have to get rudder pedals and maybe a track IR. Not sure if the new stick (probably worth it by itself) is worth getting if I need to get other peripherals as well.

Yeah...


It definatley depends what peripherals you already have !


for me (probaby for all of us) stuff like this has got to be bought bit by bit if at all !!...

I started out at the cheaper (and mainly second hand) end of the market. Needing to buy a full setup pretty much all at once it was absolutely the only way to start.


I've been progresively upgrading my stuff along the way. Trading up bit by bit as it were using eBay to sell the old stuff.


So far so good...

Kinda lucky that the game only cost £9 and the updates are free really !

1lokos
Aug-02-2016, 12:38
I bought a Cobra M5, with the contact less sensors (I think - perhaps Sokol1 would know if it has them or not) but the rudder pot always got off centre. I did fix it after taking it all apart but I'm still not 100% happy with it. One thing is it squeaks like a deranged duck.


The Cobra M5 you bough is the "V3" (3rd revision) of this stick - in what VKB electronics was replaced with cheap generic ones for increase manufacturer profit margins, but at least retain the use o contact less sensor in X,Y axis, although no more VKB MaRS.

The issue with twist rudder is due use o low cost potentiometer - Gladiator (VKB, not the EU version) is the 1st stick to use contactless sensor in twist rudder.

The use of potentiometer is common to all low cost (and no so low, e.g. X-52, X-55) joysticks. In my T.16000M the twist work OK for ~6 mounts of moderated use, not issue because I have T-Rudder pedal.

You can buy for example the new Tm TFRP (https://www.amazon.com/Thrustmaster-Flight-Rudder-Pedals-Playstation-4/dp/B015PII6YI) rudder pedals for ~90$, but this pedal use the same kind of potentiometer used in twist rudder in sticks (see all Saitek pedals pot' "dramas" around).

If you have some DIY skill (e.g. know how and have tool for make solder) can easily replace the twist rudder pot by HALL sensor, e.g. Honeywell SS495A1, "MOD" that cost little.

This posts is in Russian but for the purpose are readable under Google Translator, with fix's for Cobra M5 issues.

http://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/topic/3457-kobra-m5-3-ya-seriya-mehanika-ustranenie-lyuftov-st/

But the best "fix" for Cobra M5 is BAUR gimbal/electronics update, all metal, bearings CAM gimbal that cost less than VKB "Next-Gen" gimbal (BAUR is the guy that "invented" CAM gimbal for commercial domestic sticks).

http://avia-sim.ru/forum/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=882

Replacing the twist rudder potentiometer with HALL sensor.

http://forum.warthunder.ru/index.php?/topic/145218-%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%B1%D1%80%D0%B0-%D0%BC5-3-%D1%8F-%D1%81%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B8%D1%8F-%D0%B7%D0%B0%D0%BC%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%B0-%D1%80%D0%B5%D0%B7%D0%B8%D1%81%D1%82%D0%BE%D1%80%D 0%B0-%D1%82%D0%B2%D0%B8%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B0-%D0%BD%D0%B0-%D0%B4%D0%B0%D1%82%D1%87%D0%B8%D0%BA-%D1%85%D0%BE%D0%BB%D0%BB%D0%B0/

1lokos
Sep-06-2016, 13:04
Gladiator PRO CAM "dance":


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrmAwMtniWk

ATAG_Highseas
Sep-06-2016, 13:15
Gladiator PRO CAM "dance":



Want! Want gunfighter.... Want!

LuseKofte
Sep-06-2016, 13:46
I would like to say, the gunfighter will be expensive , it will have a all metal box and I am pretty sure it going to compete in the high end floor mounted sticks witch starts at 800$ and up. But as I got one already you need to ask if you wish for a self centering or non centering one.
Both get their own advantage. I be very surprised if I am wrong about the price

1lokos
Sep-06-2016, 19:58
Curiosity, why joystick CAM have this "exotic" - asymmetric profile?

The basic answer is in the "Involute of a Circle". :D

https://s22.postimg.org/tcp6o9m5d/CAM_Evolvente.jpg

FluxCapacitance
Sep-06-2016, 23:22
I like how the VKB guy cam'd it. Looks nice...but if you really want awesomeness (I'm getting a little crazy here), there's this guy (http://simhardware.org/page6.html) that built a spitfire sim pit that can handle feedback forces of up to 400 lbs!

I'm working on a Spitfire sim pit that's a bit on the shelf now. I have part of the sheet-metal structure for the rudder/stick area done and currently plowing through the gazillion pieces on frame 8. I'm not looking at making it airworthy by any means (starting with -O and heat treating to -T42 etc), so I'm hoping just to spend about $150 for the sheet-metal side.....and several thousand hours. lol
24612

ATAG_Highseas
Sep-07-2016, 06:16
and I am pretty sure it going to compete in the high end floor mounted sticks witch starts at 800$ and up.

I recon it will be about the £350 mark....

but I'm guessing... it may be more...


It's going to be more isn't it?


Still surprised nobody has made a propper metal cam gimbal base as a direct replacement for the Thrustmaster Warthog plastic ball / dog toy gizmo.

That design is.... well....

ATAG_Highseas
Sep-07-2016, 06:19
Curiosity, why joystick CAM have this "exotic" - asymmetric profile?

The basic answer is in the "Involute of a Circle". :D



I was just about to say that....


"Involute" I was going to say...

just like that... ;)

1lokos
Sep-07-2016, 11:42
Still surprised nobody has made a propper metal cam gimbal base as a direct replacement for the Thrustmaster Warthog plastic ball / dog toy gizmo.


Problem is the cost for make this outside of China.
In early 2000's Cougar gimbal mods, ex. EvenStrain, NN_Dan, UberNXT cost ~400$.
Now VKB sold (end of 2015) their gimbal "Next Gen" as upgrade for Black Mamba for 160$.

But I thin VKB are "missing the boat" in not sell a base upgrade only for Warthog - instead force people buy their joysticks for use their gimbal "Next Gen".
Based on serial database on DCSW forum are more than 50k of Warthog around.
In the same way they are loosing potential buyers by not make a adapter for CH grips - what in practical "dogfight game" use is more convenient than the ~1Kg of Warthog grip.

ATAG_Highseas
Sep-07-2016, 12:22
Problem is the cost for make this outside of China.
In early 2000's Cougar gimbal mods, ex. EvenStrain, NN_Dan, UberNXT cost ~400$.
Now VKB sold (end of 2015) their gimbal "Next Gen" as upgrade for Black Mamba for 160$.

But I thin VKB are "missing the boat" in not sell a base upgrade only for Warthog - instead force people buy their joysticks for use their gimbal "Next Gen".
Based on serial database on DCSW forum are more than 50k of Warthog around.
In the same way they are loosing potential buyers by not make a adapter for CH grips - what in practical "dogfight game" use is more convenient than the ~1Kg of Warthog grip.

Yeah..... It's a market nobody seems to want to tap into!

Maybe VKB just aren't geared up for that level of production.

Which seems likely.....

But given that you can get bespoke rudders and so forth..... very odd that nobody has jumped in there.

FluxCapacitance
Sep-08-2016, 20:41
These guys do a pretty nice job. Link here. (http://spitfiresite.com/2010/04/spitsim-spitfire-cockpit-simulator-product-review.html)

Bolting on force feedback motors would be nice for feeling airspeed. Seems like energy management is my biggest issue right now.

1lokos
Sep-08-2016, 21:47
IMO - This (expensive) RL like control models is good for the "Feel Simulator" but not for win online dogfights in CFS. :D

Pirato
Sep-09-2016, 09:40
Yes,you are propably right. But still I would love to own something like that :D

ATAG_Highseas
Sep-09-2016, 11:27
Yes,you are propably right. But still I would love to own something like that :D

Well for a mere four grand you can !

http://www.spitsim.co.uk/#/prices-combinations/4553425287


I'd love one... but.... I'd also like a pet mermaid....

Pirato
Sep-09-2016, 17:48
Allright, I will just have to sell a kidney... no problem lol

Seriously, that whole thing looks realy cool.

1lokos
Sep-09-2016, 18:39
I hope the gunfighter or gladiator ends up being a good choice. I bought a Cobra M5, with the contact less sensors (I think - perhaps Sokol1 would know if it has them or not) but the rudder pot always got off centre. I did fix it after taking it all apart but I'm still not 100% happy with it. One thing is it squeaks like a deranged duck.


Yes, Cobra M5 V3 use contactless magnet resistance sensor (KMZ41) analog in X, Y axis. Is not good like VKB MaRS usede in V2 but better than any Saitek/Logitech entry level.

Their twist rudder use potentiometer, and the only real improvement is use external rudder pedals. :D

But you can upgrade this joystick with Baur (Russia) "mechanics": Metal, bearings CAM gimbal.

http://avia-sim.ru/forum/download/file.php?id=7497
http://avia-sim.ru/forum/download/file.php?id=7498
http://avia-sim.ru/forum/download/file.php?id=7499

This gimbal option erase the "twist rudder". Cost around 85$ plus shipping.

And even replace the electronics, controller/sensors (X,Y).

http://avia-sim.ru/forum/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=897

Less expensive fixes for this joystick:

http://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/topic/3457-kobra-m5-3-ya-seriya-mehanika-ustranenie-lyuftov-st/

FluxCapacitance
Sep-11-2016, 02:14
Here's a Blennie focused design. Does IL2 do fairly well at recognizing 2 joystick controllers in parallel?

24646

1lokos
Sep-11-2016, 11:27
Does IL2 do fairly well at recognizing 2 joystick controllers in parallel?

I am not sure what you mean with this "in parallel". :S

Modern CFS games - post il-2:46, recognize multiples controllers (joystick, throttle, pedal, quadrant, button box), each with your limit, iL-2:46 is (4), CloD seems (9), they just enumerate different controllers as Joy0, Joy1, Joy2... etc.

Windows allow use up to (8) axis per controller and 32 buttons, more can be used through keyboard emulation, but DCSW allow use 128 buttons directly and IL-2 Bo"X" series up to 64 (you don't seem this buttons in Windows Games controllers, but this games see).

Notice that you don't have control over what controller will be Joy1 or Joy2... Windows have, base in VID and PID numbers in controller firmware.

Other consideration, in CloD although you can assign endless keys or joy buttons for each command in "Keys', in "Axis" you are limited to one - in each "Category".

Means that one axis can do one command in Camera and other Aircraft for example, but not two commands in Aircraft.

This will prevent (or rather difficult *) for example - a rare possibility -one use a dual control "cockpit" in same computer, i.e. 2 Joystick instructor and student.

BTW - Nice design. :thumbsup:

* Will be need wire both joystick in same (electronic controller) in parallel or through a selector.

FluxCapacitance
Sep-11-2016, 12:07
Nice! Thanks for the reply 1lokos. With that info, it looks like I'll be able to get it to work.

I'm looking at 2 (32 button, 8 axis) leo bodnar boards (http://www.leobodnar.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=94&products_id=180) each with their own PID. They're very pricey, but the installation is compact and elegant -hardware/software-wise. They just plug in as a joystick without drivers. I thought about the Teensy++2 as well since it's cheaper, but it's more of a hack. I can always yank the modules out in the future for other projects or plug them right back in years later. No processing/arduino software interfacing hacks every time a new game comes out.

Regards!

LuseKofte
Sep-11-2016, 12:31
These guys do a pretty nice job. Link here. (http://spitfiresite.com/2010/04/spitsim-spitfire-cockpit-simulator-product-review.html)

Bolting on force feedback motors would be nice for feeling airspeed. Seems like energy management is my biggest issue right now.

SPITSIM (http://www.spitsim.co.uk)

This is their new site, They are expensive and they would work in any environment. You will have no problem dogfighting in it in any game. But it duplicate the real thing So they are expensive +++

1lokos
Sep-11-2016, 17:02
I'm looking at 2 (32 button, 8 axis) leo bodnar boards (http://www.leobodnar.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=94&products_id=180) each with their own PID. They're very pricey, but the installation is compact and elegant -hardware/software-wise. They just plug in as a joystick without drivers. I thought about the Teensy++2 as well since it's cheaper, but it's more of a hack. I can always yank the modules out in the future for other projects or plug them right back in years later. No processing/arduino software interfacing hacks every time a new game comes out.


BU0836 boards are nice hardware, but features wise was somewhat surpassed by DIY MMJoy2 (A Arduino PRO Micro, Teensy 2.0... with Mega_MOZG firmware).

MMjoy2 is easy to set - basically the firmware upload. After became PnP Game Control device using Windows HID drivers, like BU0836 do.
No need any kind of "hack" - maybe others Arduino firmware need.

Their firmware was done by Flight Simmer, who support/add new features frequently.

Has the basic joystick function like BU0836 (axis, POV HAT, buttons), but allow more things like set axis curves, use toggle switches (latched) without external keyboard emulation, encoders... Support Tm F22PRO, Cougar, Cobra M-5, grips without need to re-wiring.

And better, can cost less than 10$. :D

But you are not wrong with BU0836 - I already use four of this boards, all easy to work and with "bullet proof" operation. :thumbsup:

DSB boards are good option for DIY too, has free shipping.

http://www.derekspearedesigns.com/circuits.html

FluxCapacitance
Sep-11-2016, 23:48
Thanks for the DSB link. Much better option for me.

Though I'm a little intrigued now by being able to calibrate curves on mmjoy. hmm

Looks like you did some crazy footwork on those other forums, which never seemed to pop up on my searches...or those DSB boards for that matter. I'll try not to derail this thread much more for now. Might pop back in later. Thanks 1lokos!

Kendy for the State
Sep-14-2016, 18:02
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B01A7A3ME8/

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

1lokos
Oct-06-2016, 11:41
Double post. :)

1lokos
Oct-06-2016, 11:45
Another OEM version (of Gladiator) for European market, RavCore - Polish hardware distributor brand - Javelin.

http://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/uploads/monthly_09_2016/post-12288-0-96336300-1475147389.jpg
Picture from Slaw (Slaw Pedals) "screwdriver" (http://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/uploads/monthly_09_2016/post-12288-0-12922100-1475149128.jpg) review posted in IL-2 forum(ru).

http://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/uploads/monthly_09_2016/post-12288-0-32948300-1475149126.jpg
http://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/uploads/monthly_09_2016/post-12288-0-58965200-1475148692.jpg
http://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/uploads/monthly_09_2016/post-12288-0-41868000-1475149129.jpg

Product page: https://www.ravcore.com/produkty/javelin/
Manual and configuration softare available at end of this page.

Relatively to AIRROW version, Javelin configuration utility has two options more.

https://s16.postimg.org/c24do146t/OEM_Javelin.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/6qph3bi41/)upload an image (https://postimage.org/)

- Can integrated T-Rudder or a MaRS based 3 axis rudder pedal in their base, though the RJ45 Rudder connector. For now is not know if this option has practical use.

- Has bootloader mode - what mean possibility to upgrade firmware, but notice that this upgrade need be provide by RavCore, VKB versions is not compatible (different VID/PID), so for now is not know if this option will have practical use, if the brand has interest in offer this - probably not, as will mean costs.

OEM Javelin version is offered at a lower value, around 67 dollars, what is more consistent with OEM version who lost contacless MaRS sensor in twist rudder, replaced for low cost potentiometer and have restrict firmware options.

OEM AIRROW have a less option in their config software, no bootloader mode, no option for integrate T-Rudder although maintain the connectors in base, and their price in Europe is practically the same of VKB Gladiator in Amazon.com.

Around simulations forums are suspicions that OEM versions came with different internals from Gladiator or are counterfeit copies.

OEM are produced by same factory who made Gladiator for VKB (and Cobra M5 for Defender), based on agreement of share development (explained in other topics there), so the products are identical, with same mechanical, e.g. the gimbal with damper grease - and electronics parts (MaRS), minus:

- Potentiometer in twist ruder instead contactless MaRS (X,Y axis use MaRS).
- Restrict firmware options, basically calibration/deadzone, no new buttons profile is possible.
- Pads under joystick base is in rubber, in Gladiator is silicone.
- OEM versions QC control is done by factory Chinese personal. For Gladiator done by VKB.

Notice that RavCore advertisement say "HALL sensor" technology (https://www.ravcore.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/javelin_1.jpg), but the sensors are MaRS, more advanced. Happen that for Chinese MaRS is meaningless, and advertising as "HALL" they are taking advantage of Thrustmaster H.E.A.R.T. HALL "hype". :cool:
If decide purchase is important take in mind, although OEM versions are the same joystick - with above exceptions - they are OEM products, not VKB product. :grrr:
Will be pointless go complain about OEM versions in VKB forum. :)

Comparing this OEM versions with the market, in similar price range/features the nearest options are Thrustmaster T.1600M and Defender Cobra M5 (low availability) - who use generic electronics in his V3 version - make this OEM versions, price/features/ergonomics and even look, better option... if that famous QC control had no "collateral effects". :D

ATAG_Highseas
Oct-06-2016, 11:50
Keep 'em coming 1lokos.

I like this particular newsreel !

Bonditaria
Oct-06-2016, 16:02
Got got one of the new Gladiator Pro's today! Flies real smooth!

ATAG_Highseas
Oct-06-2016, 18:07
Got got one of the new Gladiator Pro's today! Flies real smooth!

Great news Bondi !!

I'm really interested in the Gunfighter... when that eventually becomes a reality...

glad to hear the Gladiators gimbal is fit for purpose !

Very glad !

PenGun
Oct-06-2016, 23:38
Got my Gladiator today as well. Flies much better than the keys. ;)

I have much to do to set it up, and get a bit of time in. This whole 'rudder' thing obviously requires some study. Sure is a lot of simulation in this ... sim. The stick is gonna help a lot, apart from just direction, the 'mode' switch allows two complete control setups, combat and navigation, are in the manual as an example.

As well my PS3 Eye arrived and my IR LEDs should be along in a day or two.

So much to do, and vaguely understand. Exactly what I was looking for. ;)

9./JG52 Sturm
Oct-09-2016, 09:30
the 'mode' switch allows two complete control setups, combat and navigation, are in the manual as an example.


Have you got the 'mode' switch to work in CloD? Currently mine will perform both actions assigned to the button, regardless of what mode it is set to.

1lokos
Oct-09-2016, 12:41
MODE switch - in the default profile - change only grip top buttons and POV HAT, but not affect base buttons:

https://pp.vk.me/c629221/v629221733/41bcd/BKUa-aedCrg.jpg
Manual http://ftp.vkb-sim.pro/Documentations/Gladiator_User_Manual.pdf

The functions ahead buttons names - e.g. trigger "BRAKE" in MODE2, is suggestion, for work in that way is need assign this button, in MODE2 for "wheel brakes", if don't want use this for brake, assign for other desired function, or for the same in MODE1 and MODE2 (in default profile POV HAT functions is same in both MODE, only changing if "shift" is pressed) or leave unassigned, as your choice.

- This "shift" allow that the 2 buttons on top of Gladiator grip execute the same functions of, for example Tn T.1600M 4 buttons, and using MODE2 double, this, allowing assign 8 functions in this 2 buttons. A way to deal with Luftwaffe KG12-B grip small quantity of buttons.

Is in the same way for "Shift" button, the one under "pinky" finger, they don't change base buttons.

But this can be changed loading a new button profile - or changing the existent with VKB Config Software - until now is not available documentation in English for this software - adding MODE2 for base buttons the available buttons increase for around 50.

- For load new profiles, first update the firmware, using WIZZO or VKB Config Software and ZBootloader-C, all available here:

http://ftp.vkb-sim.pro/Programms/

Firmware:

http://ftp.vkb-sim.pro/Firmware/Gladiator/

Different profiles for Gladiator/Gladiator PRO:

http://ftp.vkb-sim.pro/Profiles/Gladiator/

In some profiles the "pinky" button is just a "button" (can be "shift" an button simultaneous), in others the HAT is only 4 buttons, etc... as is "normal" in "virpilot's world" everyone want things in different way. :D

VKB support forum (English):

http://forum.vkb-sim.pro/viewforum.php?f=25

Bonditaria
Oct-09-2016, 14:41
Thanks for keeping us updated 1lokos. The configuration possibilities of this device are very interesting, hopefully there will be some English documentaion, because I'm finding the interface of VKBDevCfg-C.exe totally baffling. The mode and shift business was a bit non-obvious as well. I initially expected the mode and shift to work on all the buttons, and even when I knew 29 buttons was the number, I still couldn't find them.

Flashed with firmware v1.80.8 my Gladiator Pro shows all 29 buttons in CloD, although the four 'diagonal' buttons (45°, 135°, etc) on the POV hat seem to be momentary switches and will not stick in the settings, so I get effectively 25 buttons.

This thing feels like a control device for industrial machinery. Flying with it is pure joy. It feels like quality in the same way my MFG Crosswind's impressed instantly me with their quality. My pedals are now 13 months in daily use to fly and as a footrest under my desk, and are operating no differently now than on the day they were installed, always accurate, always returning to centre, sending no signal when at rest, no spiking, just a little bit dustier. The Gladiator Pro today feels similarly accurate and of good quality materials and excellent design. Crisp positive button clicks, smooth control around the centre, push/pull on the y axis and the x axis doesn't even twitch. Of course it is very much too early to say if it has the longevity expected of it.

Next year before Christmas I would like to install a WW II style throttle with at least as many rotaries, axes etc as the Logitech X-55 throttle, but with the quality of the MFG/VKB kit!

https://s20.postimg.org/bhtctkbcr/Clo_D_controllers.jpg

9./JG52 Sturm
Oct-09-2016, 17:44
Thanks lokos, you prove to be a font of knowledge for many things 'flight sim' across a number of different forums.

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk

1lokos
Oct-09-2016, 20:35
The mode and shift business was a bit non-obvious as well. I initially expected the mode and shift to work on all the buttons, and even when I knew 29 buttons was the number, I still couldn't find them.


The fact that in default profile MODE2 is not applicable to base buttons is due Windows DInput limitation of 32 buttons.

If the standard profile add MODE2 to base buttons, the joystick number of buttons will be above 32, and most of games don't see this - exceptions DCWS 128, Rof/IL2:Bo' 64 - and will lead uninformed buyers complain that buttons in MODE2 are "DOA".* :D

Fortunately for VKB Gladiator this can be changed through new buttons profiles, but the "lucky" European buyers of OEM versions will be limited to have a almost useless MODE button.

* Of course this buttons above 32 can be used through keymapper like SVMapper, Joy2Key, Xpadder, but for OEM versions this will means post sales support, what OEM distributors don't want do.

BTW- Nice setup you have, congratulations. :thumbsup:

ATAG_Highseas
Oct-10-2016, 04:57
Thanks for keeping us updated 1lokos. The configuration possibilities of this device are very interesting, hopefully there will be some English documentaion, because I'm finding the interface of VKBDevCfg-C.exe totally baffling. The mode and shift business was a bit non-obvious as well. I initially expected the mode and shift to work on all the buttons, and even when I knew 29 buttons was the number, I still couldn't find them.

Flashed with firmware v1.80.8 my Gladiator Pro shows all 29 buttons in CloD, although the four 'diagonal' buttons (45°, 135°, etc) on the POV hat seem to be momentary switches and will not stick in the settings, so I get effectively 25 buttons.

This thing feels like a control device for industrial machinery. Flying with it is pure joy. It feels like quality in the same way my MFG Crosswind's impressed instantly me with their quality. My pedals are now 13 months in daily use to fly and as a footrest under my desk, and are operating no differently now than on the day they were installed, always accurate, always returning to centre, sending no signal when at rest, no spiking, just a little bit dustier. The Gladiator Pro today feels similarly accurate and of good quality materials and excellent design. Crisp positive button clicks, smooth control around the centre, push/pull on the y axis and the x axis doesn't even twitch. Of course it is very much too early to say if it has the longevity expected of it.

Next year before Christmas I would like to install a WW II style throttle with at least as many rotaries, axes etc as the Logitech X-55 throttle, but with the quality of the MFG/VKB kit!

https://s20.postimg.org/bhtctkbcr/Clo_D_controllers.jpg

Sounds really positive Bondi.

I'm using Slaw pedals... And they are similarly instantly impressive.

A stick to match that quality is definitely what I'm after next. Waiting for the gunfighter...... Waiting..... Waiting.......

Warthog throttle will stay in play.....

Grip will as well..... But that base on the warthog throttle.... It's just screaming out for better.

Bonditaria
Oct-10-2016, 08:52
The fact that in default profile MODE2 is not applicable to base buttons is due Windows DInput limitation of 32 buttons.

Ah ha right that makes sense.


If the standard profile add MODE2 to base buttons, the joystick number of buttons will be above 32, and most of games don't see this - exceptions DCWS 128, Rof/IL2:Bo' 64 - and will lead uninformed buyers complain that buttons in MODE2 are "DOA".* :D

Fortunately for VKB Gladiator this can be changed through new buttons profiles, but the "lucky" European buyers of OEM versions will be limited to have a almost useless MODE button.

* Of course this buttons above 32 can be used through keymapper like SVMapper, Joy2Key, Xpadder, but for OEM versions this will means post sales support, what OEM distributors don't want do.

Light! This hole is deep!


BTW- Nice setup you have, congratulations. :thumbsup:

Yep, and you know its always cheaper than other old-man hobbies like cars casinos and cathouses!

Bonditaria
Oct-10-2016, 09:25
Sounds really positive Bondi.

I'm using Slaw pedals... And they are similarly instantly impressive.

A stick to match that quality is definitely what I'm after next. Waiting for the gunfighter...... Waiting..... Waiting.......

Warthog throttle will stay in play.....

Grip will as well..... But that base on the warthog throttle.... It's just screaming out for better.

Those Slaw pedals are astonishing things.

Years ago I kicked to death a set of a CH Pro Pedals which, viewed with 20/20 hindsight, must have been remarkably sophisticated devices, if you look at the lengths folks have to go to nowadays to recreate that simple functionality...

I nearly clicked to buy a Warthog stick so many times, after sessions with the sloppy inaccurate twisty X-55 joystick, but now I'm glad I waited for VKB to deliver.

My objection to metal pedals is the cold. Where I live it feels like winter nine months of the year to me anyway, and putting my socked feet on cold metal would not work for me. I prefer my house at a low temperature! The MFG Crosswind's temperature feels the same as the chipboard in this room, and warmer than the wooden furniture. Another thing I chose the Crosswind for is the full foot rest, it just suits me better.

And all this to support a €10 software! Thanks to Team Fusion who made this investment seem worthwhile!

ATAG_Highseas
Oct-10-2016, 09:50
My objection to metal pedals is the cold. Where I live it feels like winter nine months of the year to me anyway, and putting my socked feet on cold metal would not work for me. I prefer my house at a low temperature! The MFG Crosswind's temperature feels the same as the chipboard in this room, and warmer than the wooden furniture. Another thing I chose the Crosswind for is the full foot rest, it just suits me better.



Just been playing in bare feet... and yeah...

I need to put some socks on !!

The 109 pedals are full feet by the way.

24905

stock photo... my ones have attachments for a steering damper... doesn't really need one though...


Just heard today from Vamps that Slaw isn't doing the BF 109 cam centring pedals now...

Apparently he's upgraded and gone with cam centring on the toe brakes as well ! I forget now which aircraft the new pedals are based on...

BOO
Oct-10-2016, 13:07
Thanks for keeping us updated 1lokos. The configuration possibilities of this device are very interesting, hopefully there will be some English documentaion, because I'm finding the interface of VKBDevCfg-C.exe totally baffling. The mode and shift business was a bit non-obvious as well. I initially expected the mode and shift to work on all the buttons, and even when I knew 29 buttons was the number, I still couldn't find them.

Flashed with firmware v1.80.8 my Gladiator Pro shows all 29 buttons in CloD, although the four 'diagonal' buttons (45°, 135°, etc) on the POV hat seem to be momentary switches and will not stick in the settings, so I get effectively 25 buttons.

This thing feels like a control device for industrial machinery. Flying with it is pure joy. It feels like quality in the same way my MFG Crosswind's impressed instantly me with their quality. My pedals are now 13 months in daily use to fly and as a footrest under my desk, and are operating no differently now than on the day they were installed, always accurate, always returning to centre, sending no signal when at rest, no spiking, just a little bit dustier. The Gladiator Pro today feels similarly accurate and of good quality materials and excellent design. Crisp positive button clicks, smooth control around the centre, push/pull on the y axis and the x axis doesn't even twitch. Of course it is very much too early to say if it has the longevity expected of it.

Next year before Christmas I would like to install a WW II style throttle with at least as many rotaries, axes etc as the Logitech X-55 throttle, but with the quality of the MFG/VKB kit!

https://s20.postimg.org/bhtctkbcr/Clo_D_controllers.jpg

No dust around the pots and switches - impressive!! :-)

Bonditaria
Oct-10-2016, 14:53
No dust around the pots and switches - impressive!! :-)

Boo it's a beauty-shot, don't think of of it as a picture of reality. Dust is removable in post-processing :D

lil_head
Oct-11-2016, 06:31
Another OEM version (of Gladiator) for European market, RavCore - Polish hardware distributor brand - Javelin.

http://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/uploads/monthly_09_2016/post-12288-0-96336300-1475147389.jpg
Picture from Slaw (Slaw Pedals) "screwdriver" (http://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/uploads/monthly_09_2016/post-12288-0-12922100-1475149128.jpg) review posted in IL-2 forum(ru).

http://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/uploads/monthly_09_2016/post-12288-0-32948300-1475149126.jpg
http://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/uploads/monthly_09_2016/post-12288-0-58965200-1475148692.jpg
http://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/uploads/monthly_09_2016/post-12288-0-41868000-1475149129.jpg

Product page: https://www.ravcore.com/produkty/javelin/
Manual and configuration softare available at end of this page.

Relatively to AIRROW version, Javelin configuration utility has two options more.

https://s16.postimg.org/c24do146t/OEM_Javelin.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/6qph3bi41/)upload an image (https://postimage.org/)

- Can integrated T-Rudder or a MaRS based 3 axis rudder pedal in their base, though the RJ45 Rudder connector. For now is not know if this option has practical use.

- Has bootloader mode - what mean possibility to upgrade firmware, but notice that this upgrade need be provide by RavCore, VKB versions is not compatible (different VID/PID), so for now is not know if this option will have practical use, if the brand has interest in offer this - probably not, as will mean costs.

OEM Javelin version is offered at a lower value, around 67 dollars, what is more consistent with OEM version who lost contacless MaRS sensor in twist rudder, replaced for low cost potentiometer and have restrict firmware options.

OEM AIRROW have a less option in their config software, no bootloader mode, no option for integrate T-Rudder although maintain the connectors in base, and their price in Europe is practically the same of VKB Gladiator in Amazon.com.

Around simulations forums are suspicions that OEM versions came with different internals from Gladiator or are counterfeit copies.

OEM are produced by same factory who made Gladiator for VKB (and Cobra M5 for Defender), based on agreement of share development (explained in other topics there), so the products are identical, with same mechanical, e.g. the gimbal with damper grease - and electronics parts (MaRS), minus:

- Potentiometer in twist ruder instead contactless MaRS (X,Y axis use MaRS).
- Restrict firmware options, basically calibration/deadzone, no new buttons profile is possible.
- Pads under joystick base is in rubber, in Gladiator is silicone.
- OEM versions QC control is done by factory Chinese personal. For Gladiator done by VKB.

Notice that RavCore advertisement say "HALL sensor" technology (https://www.ravcore.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/javelin_1.jpg), but the sensors are MaRS, more advanced. Happen that for Chinese MaRS is meaningless, and advertising as "HALL" they are taking advantage of Thrustmaster H.E.A.R.T. HALL "hype". :cool:
If decide purchase is important take in mind, although OEM versions are the same joystick - with above exceptions - they are OEM products, not VKB product. :grrr:
Will be pointless go complain about OEM versions in VKB forum. :)

Comparing this OEM versions with the market, in similar price range/features the nearest options are Thrustmaster T.1600M and Defender Cobra M5 (low availability) - who use generic electronics in his V3 version - make this OEM versions, price/features/ergonomics and even look, better option... if that famous QC control had no "collateral effects". :D

Comes with a bottle opener. I'm sold!! :)

ATAG_Highseas
Oct-11-2016, 07:15
Comes with a bottle opener. I'm sold!! :)

It's all in the detail !

TWC_Ragoo
Oct-19-2016, 23:18
Is it possible too get these VKB sticks shipped to Australia?

1lokos
Oct-19-2016, 23:41
Check on Amazom.com - they send for Australia or with VKB sales@vkb-sim.pro - in this case is send from China.

AFAIK the production was sold out, the next batch is for end of year or early in the next.

sw1ive
Oct-20-2016, 09:54
Can I have a link shiping to south Europe ? Greece (Hellas)

Thanks...

Bonditaria
Oct-20-2016, 10:01
https://flightsimcontrols.com/ sold me mine, I think they ship inside all europe, you can ask on the website.

9./JG52 Sturm
Oct-20-2016, 14:24
Can I have a link shiping to south Europe ? Greece (Hellas)

Thanks...

Got mine (in Europe) from Amazon.com, shipping, tax etc. was reasonable.

PhoenixCNE
Oct-20-2016, 18:57
I hope there are still plans for some sort of warthog stick adapter .... really want the vkb gimbal but love the functionality of the warthog (especially in dcs)

ATAG_Highseas
Nov-01-2016, 16:50
Little update on the Gunfighter, following an email to VKB Europe:


"We plan to produce Gunfighter in Q2 next year. Warthog adaptor for Gunfighter flightstick will be available next year as well.

Warthog adapter for Gladiator Pro is available and will be in stock in our store soon."


I guess that means Easter at the earliest.

If anyone sees and action on the Russian do feel free to HOLLER at me !

1lokos
Dec-04-2016, 09:49
VKB Warthog adapter for Gladiator PRO:

http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/25191-vkb-gunfighter-leakage/#entry416258

Bonditaria
Nov-30-2019, 04:43
https://flightsimcontrols.com/product/modern-combat-grip-mcg-mamba/?attribute_base-type=Vintage+Mamba%2FGladiator+Pro+Mk.+I

MODERN COMBAT GRIP PRO FOR MAMBA BASE (5-PIN)

Compatible Bases (5-pin connector only):

Black Mamba Mk.II and Mk.III
Fat Black Mamba Mk.II and Mk.III
Vintage Mamba
Gladiator Pro Mk.I
---------------

Does anyone here have any experience using this grip on a Gladiator Pro Mk.I?

ATAG_Noofy
Nov-30-2019, 07:23
New haircut, Bondi? :D

Bonditaria
Nov-30-2019, 07:57
New haircut, Bondi? :D

Whole new avatar, not just a haircut! :thumbsup:

1lokos
Nov-30-2019, 08:55
https://flightsimcontrols.com/product/modern-combat-grip-mcg-mamba/?attribute_base-type=Vintage+Mamba%2FGladiator+Pro+Mk.+I

MODERN COMBAT GRIP PRO FOR MAMBA BASE (5-PIN)

Does anyone here have any experience using this grip on a Gladiator Pro Mk.I?

I don't see any user testimony or review of this combination, but since now include Gladiator "vanilla" can use SCG/MCG grip (with extra adapter) an MCG in Gladiator PRO will be "bolt-and-play". Well, is fact is nee load new firmware.

An downside is that MCG on Gladiator PRO base result too tall for desktop use, with less than desirable ergonomics.

For this desktop use SGC is more recommended - since was projected for this use, but SCG grip don't has analog brake lever, instead twist rudder (contact less sensor), but for now this version don't have 5 pins connector version.

Bonditaria
Nov-30-2019, 09:48
I don't see any user testimony or review of this combination, but since now include Gladiator "vanilla" can use SCG/MCG grip (with extra adapter) an MCG in Gladiator PRO will be "bolt-and-play". Well, is fact is nee load new firmware.

An downside is that MCG on Gladiator PRO base result too tall for desktop use, with less than desirable ergonomics.

For this desktop use SGC is more recommended - since was projected for this use, but SCG grip don't has analog brake lever, instead twist rudder (contact less sensor), but for now this version don't have 5 pins connector version.

Thanks, that was enough, I will not buy this thing. Three years ago VKB said they'd only develop it with 5-pin connection if enough people made an indication they would buy one - I did that, but times change. My Gladiator Pro mark 1 is running fine, with no springs on the roll axis. Cheers.