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InvaderZim
Feb-01-2015, 14:50
I have noticed more bomber pilots on blue side in recent weeks. Starting to make rolling maps more routine and rewarding for everyone. Flights of four to six are more common. Please keep up the interest. Here are a few screennies I have grabbed from different nights to inspire more of the same (I hope).

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bryandraves
Feb-01-2015, 19:20
Raid last night. We need more bomber pilots!

III./ZG76_Saipan
Feb-01-2015, 21:32
we need 109 s..too few escorts....i dont like 1 way trips

RebelSqurl
Feb-01-2015, 22:00
Red can say the same thing! Though we have several pretty dedicated Blennie pilots, it's sometimes hard to all get together for effective raids. It's great when we can -- though we need escorts to get past your dastardly 109s, 110s, etc. ;-)

InvaderZim
Feb-01-2015, 22:55
I have to say, I see and am the benefactor of more players realizing the importance of escorting. I am grateful to those who make that choice. I do agree there is still not enough of them yet either. You would think that fighter pilots looking for a scrap would realize already that bombers are like magnets for enemy fighters. They come like moths to a flame........ Also volunteering for diversions or airbase suppression is also a good recipe for a scrap. No hunting involved.

bryandraves
Feb-02-2015, 12:16
I agree, escort paid off yesterday in a caen raid. Thanks drock 1v2 and he kicked ass! Need more!

III./ZG76_Saipan
Feb-02-2015, 12:32
yes, but how can we convince the masses of the 109s to enjoy a 30-40min flight where they may have action or they may not. requesting escort isnt enough. a change in mentality is required.

InvaderZim
Feb-02-2015, 13:00
A very good point Saipan, Perhaps we need to modify our requests to be somthnig like "Request X number escorts at or location and deversionary attacks (at area we know have high probability of providing interest to the more ravanous fliers.) at Canterbury". For the more excitable fighter types it seems a good furball developing someplace is attractive. So perhaps we can get some of the 109ers to start one. In effect, play to a partcular mentality and work toward the team goal? Dunno!

Perhaps occassional reminders throuout the mission, to all, that there is a team goal?

I will say that 7 out of 10 bombing runs I go on get bounced at some point. I also admitt that if we pull the bomb run off correctly, it could be uneventful for fighters but I hope that eventualy, truly good players will realize that an uneventfull bomb run equals a sucessfull bomb run for all participants. If we put our heads together perhaps we can cobbel a stratagy together that will satisfy most tendencies.

I also agree that cultivting a mentality of teamwork to actually roll maps as a part of a team effort is difficult. Especially when not all players are on coms and the effort is basically adhoc. Perhaps we as bomber pilots have to develop our skills at using the "Friendly Chat" window to pull in the players not on TS? This is another chore but one that could pay off.

Just thinking out loud......

DRock
Feb-02-2015, 13:22
I agree, escort paid off yesterday in a caen raid. Thanks drock 1v2 and he kicked ass! Need more!

cheers.:thumbsup:


I enjoy bombing, but my favorite thing to do is escort. I like the mission aspect, and the sense of responsibility for the bombers well being.

I have often asked for air support on the chat bar and gotten good support.

"110s requesting air support @ Calais in 5 minutes". Works pretty good.

People have to be willing to wait for their comrades to RTB or respawn.

And of course, TeamSpeak.

5./JG11_Rain
Feb-02-2015, 14:41
yes, but how can we convince the masses of the 109s to enjoy a 30-40min flight where they may have action or they may not. requesting escort isnt enough. a change in mentality is required.

~S Saipan,

We are tasked and trained to provide sturmbock protection, and we know how to bring enemy bomber pulks down, thats what 5./JG11 was doing. So if you are going to do a level bombing in He-111 or Ju-88 we would really enjoy giving you proper fighter protection. I was planning/thinking to assemble a small bomber-fighter Kampfgruppe, and carry out an attack to knock-out RAF airfields. The mission would include propper rendezvous with fighter and bomber formation, planned routes, formation structure, commitment and discipline.

Why am I suggesting He-111 or Ju-88 and level bombing? Because its less chaotic and more organized then skip bombing in other planes. So we would sweep the planned targets in an organized and structured way, Fighters would be able to cover Bombers before & after they drop their payload, everyone will have its dedicated position and most importantly we will come home with minimum to no casualties.

I'm glad I saw your post, we can plan everything on Private messages. Date of operation if you agree would be this Friday or Saturday, or during the next week when we agree/plan everything out.

More people who would like to join and fit into this style of flying are more than welcome to join us. We could make this flight an awesome experience,

5./JG11_Rain

PhilipWebb
Feb-02-2015, 15:34
Hello gents;
I too have noted the increased bomber raids. I fly both Red and Blue bombers. One thing that I have is that bombers en-massed can take the target down very quickly. I was providing close escort to three JU-88s and a single 109 that hit Lymph yesterday. Close escort will keep bomber losses low, and "other methods" I believe we lost one JU-88 and a 109 (mine). I intercepted the formation bout half way over the channel and tagged along. Kept the Spittys busy for a bit lol, while the raiders got away. After a long flight like that, it is very rewarding to land at the aerodrome.

Single bombers always get bounced long before the IP, traveling in a group with one or two escorts is the ticket. Fighters should really stay away for strafing until the all powdered eggs have popped. They have a habit of putting holes in the water works of one's plane.

All the escort type mission(s) do require a bit of planning if bomber side wants to all come "home" (talking to the chore here and yes I am quite long winded at times)

Sometimes I'm amazed that Blue doesn't "roll the map" with the assets they have airborne and the player numbers.

Thanks for the read...

Turkey One on Blue
von Webber on Red

3./JG51_Heiden
Feb-02-2015, 15:44
I like when bombers fly in groups or 2 or more. It makes finding them much easier and allows for multiple kills at one sitting. Let's definitely get more formations going!

bryandraves
Feb-02-2015, 16:02
I am definitely down for the planning. Willing to help as well. We just need to start with a talley of people who are interested. Rather than just jumping in the game and asking for help. Have a proper preflight plan and then go. Less "on the fly" if you will. I was in the 88 raid and got shot down but we took that airbase out in one run. Want to see more than that.

III./ZG76_Saipan
Feb-02-2015, 16:26
with so many timezones and depending on the map it might be tough to do a specifics so maybe this...

High Alt Bombing Focus Saturday Feb.7

Tramecourt will be the main spawn point. Flights depart at :00 and :30 (top of the hour and bottom of the hour) mission time. this way we can have max numbers and not have 1 plane leaving all alone.

Bomberpilots use the bomber channel...escorts flight 3 channel???

I dont think we need a sign up or anything...perhaps people will do 1-2 flights and then go off on a free hunt or whatever. If everyone knows the departure times then they can plan accordingly.

changes? input?

bryandraves
Feb-02-2015, 23:09
Sounds good except the different channels. 9 times out of ten we have to give the fighters bearings and contacts to avoid Friendly's unannounced to the bombers getting moved in on. but otherwise I'm good. Zim and I just did a successful run into littlestone tonight and the fighters were of great help. Maybe we can get this thread moved to a more visible area so more people can get the word? Any help with that ATAG guys?

III./ZG76_Saipan
Feb-02-2015, 23:26
Sounds good except the different channels. 9 times out of ten we have to give the fighters bearings and contacts to avoid Friendly's unannounced to the bombers getting moved in on. but otherwise I'm good. Zim and I just did a successful run into littlestone tonight and the fighters were of great help. Maybe we can get this thread moved to a more visible area so more people can get the word? Any help with that ATAG guys?

we can always do whispers, we'll see how populated they get...

III./ZG76_Saipan
Feb-03-2015, 11:28
bump..

InvaderZim
Feb-03-2015, 12:34
I agree with Sipan that the real deamon is time zone. If we can establish a time that fits most of us I AM IN and looking forward to it!

Please empasize that we would like folks in for the entire time it takes to roll at least one map. I hate days we have 2 goood raids, take out two primary targets and then everybody bails out and runs off to do their own thing leaving only 2 or three bombers and a couple of escorts the tough job of trying to close out the rest of the targets against a bunch of teed off reds looking to even things up.

If the first map rolls quickly~ or < 2hr, a 2 map commitment would be nice. I hate to see a good roll spoiled if we are actually able to pull this adhoc campagian off. Cooridianated raids are the funnest and most rewarding experience to take part in.

Because we don't know which map will be up, I will volenteer to start planning on a Scalion and Hellfire Cornor waypoint/AC need if sombody will help with the time between targets.

It would be advisable to have somebody work on a nightfighter seneio.

We can ask Drock for his London Ruft map senerio, I know he has somthing he might share already penciled for that map.

InvaderZim
Feb-03-2015, 12:59
Or if its London Ruft, we just agree to let Drock lead it (Bombers). Same for other planners and Fighter leaders working with the respective planners lead fighter effort.

Volunteers? Need a Radiers and Dynamo senerio planner. Dosen't have to be to detailed.

PM Coordinator?

InvaderZim
Feb-03-2015, 13:12
I also suggest this Saturday for first strike consideraton (strike while the iron is hot :) )

III./ZG76_Saipan
Feb-03-2015, 14:06
Or if its Raiders, we just agree to let Drock lead it (Bombers). Same for other planners and Fighter leaders working with the respective planners lead fighter effort.

Volunteers?

PM Coordinator?

alot of variables..we wont know the map, we wont know the numbers. hopefully with a standard takeoff time i am sure a consensus will produce a FL which will produce a target and course.

this saturday sounds perfect....

5./JG11_Rain
Feb-03-2015, 14:16
~Salute Gentlemen :salute:

I have already plotted courses for the mission on the map. I will send it to everybody over private messages because if the RAF pilots see what we are doing, and where we are going, we are going to have a tough time. Let them use Radar to try and vector into our position. I am going to open a new thread after we complete a mission, where I will reveal everything we did in detail, like an after-action report.
We can use my plots on 2 missions right after each other, "Operation Sealion" and "Hellfire Corner" on ATAG server, targets & plots are compatible with these missions.

So what is the bomber you are going to use guys, He-111 or Ju-88?

As of now if this is final confirmed list of people that will fly with us I wouldn't divide us into channels. But if this number grows the best way to do it is to split bombers and fighters into dedicated channels, and assign gruppe leaders. Bomber Leader would use whisper button to contact the leader of fighter gruppe and vice versa.


Pilot list:
Fighter escort pilots:
-> 5./JG11 could bring 3 escort pilots this weekend on 7th February: Ulrich, Bappy, Rain (not more unfortunately)
-> ATAG_DRock (confirm?), PhilipWebb (confirm?)

Bomber pilots:
-> III./ZG76_Saipan, InvaderZim, bryandraves, III./ZG76_Ezzie, Volunteer

Planned mission time: GMT 21:00 (InvaderZim, Rain, Saipan, Ezzie)

Mission map plots and briefing sent to: bryandraves, III./ZG76_Saipan, InvaderZim, III./ZG76_Ezzie

Tell me if I assigned you in the wrong role and please confirm.

Its going to be loads of fun, lets just commit to the roles we are assigned :thumbsup:

5./JG11_Rain

InvaderZim
Feb-03-2015, 14:30
I table the following time GMT and equavilent in other areas on Saturday 7 Feb:

GMT= 1900 hrs
USA PAC= 1100 hrs
Centra US= 1300 hrs
US East= 1400 hrs
Central EU= 2000 hrs
OZ Melbourne= 0600 hrs

Did I forget anybody?

InvaderZim
Feb-03-2015, 14:35
ZIM=JU88 Primary, HE111 Secondary, and any bomber tetriary

5./JG11_Rain
Feb-03-2015, 14:56
GMT 21:00 would be ideal for JG11, is it good for the rest of you guys?

InvaderZim
Feb-03-2015, 15:02
Good here.

InvaderZim
Feb-03-2015, 15:07
I like when bombers fly in groups or 2 or more. It makes finding them much easier and allows for multiple kills at one sitting. Let's definitely get more formations going!

GET READY! We gonna BRING IT!:)

ATAG_Ezzie
Feb-03-2015, 15:31
Sounds good - I should be able to make it in a 110.

Will be Sunday morning the 8th at 0600 east coast daylight saving time for any other Aussies reading this thread and thinking about participating who may not be 100% sure re time zones etc.

Ezzie

III./ZG76_Saipan
Feb-03-2015, 16:15
Sounds good - I should be able to make it in a 110.

Will be Sunday morning the 8th at 0600 east coast daylight saving time for any other Aussies reading this thread and thinking about participating who may not be 100% sure re time zones etc.

Ezzie

sounds good ezzie, thats why its 24hrs and standard launch times...should allow all to participate regardless of time zone and schedule.

5./JG11_Rain
Feb-03-2015, 16:29
Viktor III./ZG76_Ezzie, Welcome to our "humble" Kampfgruppe. :salute:

Guys please think about level bombing (He-111 & Ju-88) vs. dive bombing (Bf-110) it would be great if bomber pilots do level bombing, because they will be covered by our fighters all the time. And if the bomber formation is kept, the crossfire from the bomber gunners will make RAF think twice.

Please check, my post above, I will edit it as we plan things out. Plotted maps with briefing will be sent over private messages to all KG pilots. Before we go on a mission on 7th Feb everything will be briefed again.

InvaderZim
Feb-03-2015, 17:55
I see DRock and Bryan training bomber pilots today. If we can get new folks comfortable with the twins we should be good for 88s or 111s. We may want to mix it up a bit depending on the target and how long the map runs.

Tell yer Blue fighter buds to join in folks. Escorts and Bombers wanted!

InvaderZim
Feb-04-2015, 00:47
Here are target screen shots for Canterbury rail yard on Sealion and Caen Rail yard on Night-fighters for those bombers who don't know what they look like.
CAEN
15420154211542215423

Must get the 2 factories cross the river from the rail yard

Canterbury rail yard
15424154251542615427

Caen Bomb footage Not completely taken out on this side.


http://youtu.be/lbWzLucpdJw

bryandraves
Feb-04-2015, 08:54
I am in for 1400 on Saturday (est) ju88 primary, he111 Secondary

bryandraves
Feb-04-2015, 09:07
I agree with Sipan that the real deamon is time zone. If we can establish a time that fits most of us I AM IN and looking forward to it!

Please empasize that we would like folks in for the entire time it takes to roll at least one map. I hate days we have 2 goood raids, take out two primary targets and then everybody bails out and runs off to do their own thing leaving only 2 or three bombers and a couple of escorts the tough job of trying to close out the rest of the targets against a bunch of teed off reds looking to even things up.

If the first map rolls quickly~ or < 2hr, a 2 map commitment would be nice. I hate to see a good roll spoiled if we are actually able to pull this adhoc campagian off. Cooridianated raids are the funnest and most rewarding experience to take part in.

Because we don't know which map will be up, I will volenteer to start planning on a Scalion and Hellfire Cornor waypoint/AC need if sombody will help with the time between targets.

It would be advisable to have somebody work on a nightfighter seneio.

We can ask Drock for his London Ruft map senerio, I know he has somthing he might share already penciled for that map.

Zim,

I can help with whatever we need to get done. My navigation skills are a bit behind but I'm getting there as you know. But yes any way I can be of help just email me.

Also seeing as we have 4 bombers as of now and it's better to level bomb vice low level or dive, then may I suggest a diamond formation with all bombers dropping on #1's lead so we get all our bombs on or close to target. Thoughts?

Thirdly,
If any newer players would like some training on bombers so as to become proficient just send me a pm and I can teach you what you need to know and get you started. Not a problem at all.

Bryan

InvaderZim
Feb-04-2015, 11:50
Bryan,

Just finishing the sealion script today. Yes we can bomb off the lead bomber as long as the lead keeps his speed down to about 300 Kph. This way new bomber pilots are not struggeling to keep up. Lower lead speed also allows the other bomber pilots to tuck in close on the lead tail.

bryandraves
Feb-04-2015, 12:10
Can you email it over when you're done so I can give it a review before we send it out?

Volunteer
Feb-04-2015, 13:05
Gents, though I am a rookie JU87 driver I'd be interested in training up for JU88 or HE111 if you are willing to tutor me. :)

To get into the action I would enjoy multicrewing as a pilot's gunner if nothing else! :shoot:

bryandraves
Feb-04-2015, 13:35
Volunteer,
pm me

InvaderZim
Feb-04-2015, 14:32
If Bryan don't get to ya, I will. Thanks for stepping up!:salute:

InvaderZim
Feb-04-2015, 14:33
can you email it over when you're done so i can give it a review before we send it out?

rgr wilco

bryandraves
Feb-05-2015, 21:52
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78n4rCbkn6g&feature=youtu.be Here's a little taste of the action we're talking about.

9./JG52 Ziegler
Feb-06-2015, 07:44
It doesn't hurt to still request escort on chat (for your side). Our Squad will almost always escort a bomber group when requested. We like it and are trained for it. So if you see any of us in our TS3 channel feel free to request escort help.

xvii-Hardegen
Feb-06-2015, 23:16
I'll try to contribute with my little Bf 110 C-7 when available and with the C-4 when no fighter bomber version it's at disposal! :salute:

InvaderZim
Feb-07-2015, 03:29
Gents, though I am a rookie JU87 driver I'd be interested in training up for JU88 or HE111 if you are willing to tutor me. :)

To get into the action I would enjoy multicrewing as a pilot's gunner if nothing else! :shoot:

Please be there!

bryandraves
Feb-08-2015, 20:56
Hey guys,

I need my bomber flight lead qualification signed off.

Bryan
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQU1rZt8_8A&feature=youtu.be

InvaderZim
Feb-08-2015, 21:13
Perfect! A wee bit more of in game bomb sight elaboration and we have a training video. AS for you Kamerad - Lead Qualification = CHECK!:salute:

PhilipWebb
Feb-12-2015, 10:57
I have to say, I see and am the benefactor of more players realizing the importance of escorting. I am grateful to those who make that choice. I do agree there is still not enough of them yet either. You would think that fighter pilots looking for a scrap would realize already that bombers are like magnets for enemy fighters. They come like moths to a flame........ Also volunteering for diversions or airbase suppression is also a good recipe for a scrap. No hunting involved.

Just call me, I'll do diversionary raids. The Manston raid is just a great example of timing so the high level bombers bombed the target while the CAP was at low level
I believe Bryan toggled his bombs in less than 15 minutes after my raid - just good timing and confused defenses