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ATAG_NakedSquirrel
May-07-2012, 04:43
The patch has changed the German bombsights quite a bit. Level bombing is more manageable now.

Here is a quick overview on level bombing:

Loadout: Always take the He111-H2 (Not the P2) You need to select a bomb load out with high altitude bombs (>1km). I prefer the larger 250kg bombs because they do not tend to spread out as much as the 50kg ones.

Autopilot: You need to engage either course autopilot or Mode 22. Course autopilot basically lets the plane control your rudder to keep you on a set heading. Mode 22 removes all of your controls to keep you on a set heading. (One issue with mode 22 is it tends to dive your plane down a 1000m or so before it levels out. You can use flaps to adjust for this) Both modes use your gyroscopic compass to find your heading. Simply match the compass up to the direction you want to head and engage one of the autopilots. (The black compass on the bottom is the course set (IE the direction you want to head) The top gyroscopic compass is the direction you are facing. Try not to make adjustments greater than 5-10 degrees at a time otherwise the course autopilot might try to over-correct and send you into a spin

Bombsight: Once you're in the bomb sight simply input your IAS (Indicated air speed) and your altitude. Adjust the plane so that the bombsight is on target The bombsight will mark where the last bomb in your string is going to hit, so you want to aim slightly behind your target. You will generally want to drop your entire payload, so set your series to maximum, also you will generally want to set your distribution to 0 meter when you are flying above 3000m. The bombs have enough spread as it is, you do not need to spread them out any further. Arm your bombs, open the bomb bay, and enable bombsight automation. Unfortunately the automation is not in sync yet, so you will constantly have to lower the bombsight to keep the bombsight on target.

The drop: Bombs will drop automatically and you will not get any sound, shudder, or any information telling you your bombs have dropped. In general, your bombs will drop anywhere between the 30-40 degree mark. (30 degrees is around 5000m, 40 degrees is around 3000m) It is best to follow through and keep the sight on target well past 30 degrees just in case.

As far as accuracy, The bombs seem to have a lot of spread, especially at high altitude. It's possible to hit something the size of a city block at 5000m. 3000m is a little more manageable. It really has nothing to do with the bombsight. The bombs flutter around and spread out quite a bit as they fall. So there usually isn't a very pretty line pattern when you drop, Instead, it looks more like a shotgun.

335th_GRAthos
May-07-2012, 07:48
Nice! Thanks for sharing!

Please tell me that the course autopilot on the JU-88 is also working...

~S~

III./ZG76_Keller
May-07-2012, 09:02
I'm going to have to try this again tonight. Last night I did exactly as you said above and overshot the target by about 1 Km. The bombs seem to release much later now than they used to.

Blackdog_kt
May-16-2012, 21:34
Has anyone tested things with the alpha patch and hotfix in case something changed for the better? I know the gyro in the 88 doesn't work still, but i haven't tried level bombing in the 111 yet.

335th_GRAthos
May-17-2012, 05:00
I know the gyro in the 88 doesn't work


:!sad!:

335th_GRAthos
May-20-2012, 16:07
Something that will probably be very useful ;)

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=32268

How to give control of your gunners back to the AI

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As evidenced by this thread: http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthr...861#post427861

a player can only be assigned two positions on a multi-crewed aircraft.

Which means, that it keeps the two positions you selected last.

Now, all gunners seem to count as position of type "gunner", while the bombardier and pilot each count as a separate type (according to the net stats overlay at least).

In other words, if you want to give gun control back to the AI in your bomber, just cycle once between pilot and bombardier.

In aircraft like the Stuka and 110 that don't have a third position type (they only have "pilot" and "gunner") this will not work, but then again the visibility to the rear is adequate to take evasive action and let the AI gunner do the shooting.

For bombers however like the Blenheim, Ju88, etc, it is very useful. You can hop to your rear gunner, check your six and maybe take a couple of potshots at the target, then switch back to the front to take evasive action and the gunner will keep shooting.

AKA_Recon
Aug-31-2013, 08:12
anyone know of a video (tutorial) showing level bombing steps with team fusion mod?

III./ZG76_Keller
Aug-31-2013, 14:33
anyone know of a video (tutorial) showing level bombing steps with team fusion mod?

Nothing has changed really with regards to level bombing and the Team Fusion mod.

If you see me online Recon all you have to do is ask and I'll have you bombing from 5800m in a few flights.

Roblex
Sep-01-2013, 02:40
Nice! Thanks for sharing!

Please tell me that the course autopilot on the JU-88 is also working...

~S~

What is the problem with the JU88 then? I fly it occasionally and use all modes of autopilot but have never noticed any problems.

AKA_Recon
Sep-02-2013, 23:33
Nothing has changed really with regards to level bombing and the Team Fusion mod.

If you see me online Recon all you have to do is ask and I'll have you bombing from 5800m in a few flights.

sounds good - thanks !

AKA_Recon
Sep-03-2013, 15:39
meanwhile, if you guys don't mind me asking... ( I haven't even tried to bomb in it yet, just trying to make sure I get all the details here before I go try - which is a different topic - is there an offline mission anyone has that could start out airborne to do bombing practice runs by chance ?)

on the autolevel. In IL2:1946, you just engage it and it flies straight - I see here, you have to setup a compass. Is there not just a autolevel ability, or everytime I make an adjustment I have to set a gauge ? (I typically make lots of adjustments, this would be very painful to have to set a gauge everytime I turn is why I ask!!!)

AKA_Recon
Sep-03-2013, 15:50
one other item. In IL2:1946, I have used the bombsight automation. But also and more typically, once we new the degree angle to drop at a particular altitude and speed, we'd just do it manually and have a set of numbers to go by.

ie. with fuel loadout at 20%, 250kg bombs, at 5800m, speed 300khm, 30 degrees (we'd make minor adjustments for elevation from map to map, but in this case, seems easier since just one map to deal with!)

Found it easier to just climb up to the target altitude, align to target, keep speed constant and manually drop

Anyone else do this ?

bolox
Sep-03-2013, 16:09
is there an offline mission anyone has that could start out airborne to do bombing practice runs by chance ?)


http://www.mediafire.com/?jlc0bd07mvh95zy

several missions at various heights- loadout is default (no bombs) so you need to save some presets. Or do you want them done with specific loadouts?
Also are they too close to aiming point (Buckingham Palace) to 'settle' ???
all is easy to change

1lokos
Sep-03-2013, 21:21
on the autolevel. In IL2:1946, you just engage it and it flies straight - I see here, you have to setup a compass. Is there not just a autolevel ability, or everytime I make an adjustment I have to set a gauge ? (I typically make lots of adjustments, this would be very painful to have to set a gauge everytime I turn is why I ask!!!)

In il-2 CloD the "magic" autolevel hold your actual course and altitude (if plane are properly trimmed), and you can make small course corrections with rudder trim.

In il-2CloD in German bombers you use the more sophisticated autopilot, that hold a programed course, and allow make yaw corrections.

This BF 110 game manual cover the autopilot (Automatische Kurssteuerung) procedures in detail:

http://www.raafsquad.com/cliffs/bf110/bf110Training.pdf

This Ju 88 game manual cover autopilot/bombsight.

http://www.raafsquad.com/cliffs/ju88/JU-88A-1%20Tech%20Brief.pdf

Bombsight automation is similar to il-2 1946 one, just dont require angle input, that is calculated by (Lotfe) bombsight based in altitude (over target) and TAS.
Dont forget to arm bombs, set delay, salvo, and open bomb bay doors (no "auto" bomb bay doors of il-2 1946, ,we for my taste came with too much "auto"...)

Sokol1

III./ZG76_Keller
Sep-03-2013, 22:51
Is there not just a autolevel ability, or everytime I make an adjustment I have to set a gauge ? (I typically make lots of adjustments, this would be very painful to have to set a gauge everytime I turn is why I ask!!!)


"Course Mode 22" will hold course and altitude in the 111, you just have to climb to ~500m above your desired altitude. When you engage mode 22 the plane's nose will dive to pick up speed, after a few minutes the up and down tilting will settle out and you'll be flying level. Just make sure to make any course adjustments very minor and it'll hold level as it adjusts. You'll want to be at least 15 minutes from target when you engage Mode 22, and make sure you're only a few degrees off of your target bearing.

Also, watch your ATA and your U/M as the plane dives; you'll need to constantly make adjustments to throttle and pitch until it settles out. I've found that at ~5700m the best ATA and U/M settings for level bombing are 1.1 ATA and 2050 U/M.

AKA_Recon
Sep-08-2013, 08:05
update: I've begun my journey last night - I have the takeoff procedure down and learning the course adjustments :)

I have found a set of videos that have really helped - so I want to pass them along to others. I've been taking notes and experimenting:

CloD He-111 Tutorial Part1 Start
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QoAkNtBXOcM

CloD He-111 Tutorial Part2 Level Flight and Autopilot
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EEot-4ELnQo

CloD He-111 Tutorial Part3 Bomb Run
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJBqQ6wj09U

CloD He-111 Tutorial Part4 Return and Landing
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsDYS9F0EUo

I have high hopes - and I will say, I'm used to shooting these guys down, I didn't realize up close how beautiful this plane looks both outside and the cockpit itself - crazy good!!!

Wish me luck :thumbsup:

AKA_Recon
Sep-10-2013, 16:50
Did my first successful run today - successful drop at 4500m :)

It is possible :) and really I found it better than IL2:1946 - there is just a learning curve but quite fascinating.

Anyone have any good offline missions to recommend ?

Bear Pilot
Sep-10-2013, 18:17
Did my first successful run today - successful drop at 4500m :)

It is possible :) and really I found it better than IL2:1946 - there is just a learning curve but quite fascinating.

Anyone have any good offline missions to recommend ?

Awesome news!!!

If you think that feels good, just wait until you can take out a tank column from 6000m! Although I must admit, I don't do attempt such a small target from so high anymore, it's just too inefficient but definitely something to cross off the bucket list haha.

I can't imagine what it would be like if you manage to get more of your squadron to fly blue bombers on homeplate for instance. It might make for an awkward encounter for the fighter pilots of AKA :stunned:

Anyways great job, there can never be enough bomber pilots. And good ones at that :thumbsup:

:salute:

AKA_Recon
Sep-10-2013, 18:47
thanks! yes, I have some things to work on, but this time, it was a much smoother ride going in.

I set my fuel to 20%, does that sound about right?

I was working on using some flaps to try to prevent such a drop with Mode22.

Do we have wind on ATAG server, and is it mentioned by chance the speed and direction if so ?

Any idea what some of the elevations are - is there a way to find that out ?


(And sorry for asking about missions twice- I see that was answered above)

As far as the other AKA, this is hard - as we have some that would love to fly German, but some just fly Allied because if they didn't in our timezone it would be sparse enemy to shoot down. But meanwhile, I am enjoying destroying ships in the Blenheim - but not quite as intense as this He111 bombing :)

Thanks for everyones input and help here too - fantastic group here on this forum!

235 Sqn. Coldstreamer (QJ-X)
Sep-10-2013, 19:10
i wish they'd have given us a better indication that your bombs have gone. ie rumble of the bombs leaving or hoist/bomb rack snaps opening or even better a change in bomber flight attitude. i never seem to see bomb impacts which gets me wondering did they go or not.

Bear Pilot
Sep-11-2013, 10:41
thanks! yes, I have some things to work on, but this time, it was a much smoother ride going in.

I set my fuel to 20%, does that sound about right?

I was working on using some flaps to try to prevent such a drop with Mode22.

Do we have wind on ATAG server, and is it mentioned by chance the speed and direction if so ?

Any idea what some of the elevations are - is there a way to find that out ?


(And sorry for asking about missions twice- I see that was answered above)

As far as the other AKA, this is hard - as we have some that would love to fly German, but some just fly Allied because if they didn't in our timezone it would be sparse enemy to shoot down. But meanwhile, I am enjoying destroying ships in the Blenheim - but not quite as intense as this He111 bombing :)

Thanks for everyones input and help here too - fantastic group here on this forum!

Yep 20-30% should be sufficient for just about anything at the moment.

Haven't tried the flaps thing, let us know if you get good results! I just do the typical ~500m above desired elevation and if it doesn't drop that low then it's a bonus.

There is no wind in the TF 3.01 I believe, others may know otherwise.

http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1981

That link should explain it all. Actually I've found elevation isn't quite as important as speed when inputting into the bomb sight, but that's just me. On a mission like homeplate I often get them both as close as I can until about 10 seconds to drop and then hop into the rear gunner's seat to watch the bombs drop. I never get tired of it. Of course an airfield is large enough it doesn't require the laser-guided missile accuracy that smaller targets do. Of course that's in an 88, the 111's ventral gunner is behind the bomb bay.

I hear ya. More numbers on servers is the real answer to many of our problems.

Bear Pilot
Sep-11-2013, 10:46
i wish they'd have given us a better indication that your bombs have gone. ie rumble of the bombs leaving or hoist/bomb rack snaps opening or even better a change in bomber flight attitude. i never seem to see bomb impacts which gets me wondering did they go or not.

If you're flying blue bombers, make sure you're arming the bombs. Even in the 110 and 109/B's

AKA_Recon
Sep-11-2013, 11:38
i wish they'd have given us a better indication that your bombs have gone. ie rumble of the bombs leaving or hoist/bomb rack snaps opening or even better a change in bomber flight attitude. i never seem to see bomb impacts which gets me wondering did they go or not.

I use the bombsite indicator - you see it start to descend quickly to know it's going to drop and the automation disengages after it drops.

As far as knowing if it was a success - what isn't in the game, which I've been constantly lobbying for, is some sort of indication you have hit - whether by seeing a 'ground destroyed' message - at least with Operation Homeplate, you can see the airfield % indicator go up so you can tell it hit.

I should be able to hit 'S' and see '5 targets destroyed' - same goes for ships.

AKA_Recon
Sep-11-2013, 11:39
Yep 20-30% should be sufficient for just about anything at the moment.

Haven't tried the flaps thing, let us know if you get good results! I just do the typical ~500m above desired elevation and if it doesn't drop that low then it's a bonus.

There is no wind in the TF 3.01 I believe, others may know otherwise.

http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1981

That link should explain it all. Actually I've found elevation isn't quite as important as speed when inputting into the bomb sight, but that's just me. On a mission like homeplate I often get them both as close as I can until about 10 seconds to drop and then hop into the rear gunner's seat to watch the bombs drop. I never get tired of it. Of course an airfield is large enough it doesn't require the laser-guided missile accuracy that smaller targets do. Of course that's in an 88, the 111's ventral gunner is behind the bomb bay.

I hear ya. More numbers on servers is the real answer to many of our problems.

good advice! Thanks

AKA_Recon
Oct-06-2013, 11:50
Question: why not the p-2 in OP ?

(I have only flown the h-2)

ATAG_NakedSquirrel
Oct-06-2013, 14:49
Use Colander's bombsight utility to get elevations:

http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/utils/lotfe7.html

I remember there was something wrong with the P-2, but I'm not sure what it was exactly. It's either engine power or something wrong with the bomb controls. It might be fixed now, but I haven't heard anything.

Did the bomber's FM change with the TF update? I haven't tried to fly to the service ceiling in a long time.

Torric270
Oct-07-2013, 12:58
Use Colander's bombsight utility to get elevations:

http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/utils/lotfe7.html

I remember there was something wrong with the P-2, but I'm not sure what it was exactly. It's either engine power or something wrong with the bomb controls. It might be fixed now, but I haven't heard anything.

Did the bomber's FM change with the TF update? I haven't tried to fly to the service ceiling in a long time.

The P is fine, just a little slower. The only difference from the H is one less nose gunner, different engines, different paint job.

kg55_Kaiser
Oct-10-2013, 13:06
i wish they'd have given us a better indication that your bombs have gone. ie rumble of the bombs leaving or hoist/bomb rack snaps opening or even better a change in bomber flight attitude. i never seem to see bomb impacts which gets me wondering did they go or not.

Bombardier watched start bombs the indicating lamps on the right side Lotfe,
green, bombs in compartment of
red, bombs have gone

Indeed, it is very inconvenient to lacking this feature the indicating in the game,
especially when it is necessary cancel the start of bombs at the last moment,
and not you know, bombs unloaded or not.

P.S.

I want to draw your attention that the above presented sight Lotfe 7C, and He111 H-2 was used bombsight Lotfe 3D,
on which I could not find an exact description.

kg55_Kaiser
Oct-10-2013, 13:38
If you see me online Recon all you have to do is ask and I'll have you bombing from 5800m in a few flights.

Unfortunately you can not show the bombing of a 7000 meters because the scale height Lotfe in the game is designed for 6,000 m
but in real life it was designed for 10,000 m

Marmus
Nov-02-2013, 09:21
Maybe a bit off-topic, but does the supercharger work on He-111? I can't seem to engage it.

Those are some great videos!

Torric270
Nov-02-2013, 11:32
Maybe a bit off-topic, but does the supercharger work on He-111? I can't seem to engage it.

Those are some great videos!

On the P there is no control for it just like 110s, on the H you have manual control that kicks in at 3700 m

VII.Racetrack
Oct-05-2015, 04:04
Guyz, the Mode 22 doesn't need to drop 1.000 altitude to be engaged or to stabilize the plane.....

Just engage Mode 22 after gaining at least 300 km/h, if you do at that speed the plane will not drop nothing :)

The mode 22 just need the plane speed to be 300 or more, so if your speed is lower, the plane drop itself to gain that speed.

VII.Racetrack
Oct-15-2015, 02:26
Guys I have a problem..

It's since a couple of weeks that I'm trying to Bomb using the He111-H2 without the AUTOdrop sistem.

I get 6k then I drop until I reach 300 km/h and I engage R22, and all go fine till I meet the Targets.

Now I use the Coolander App to get correct Altitude and and TAS and I insert this data in the Bombsight.

And here is my big problem, what's the Angle????
I'm using the old Il2 Bombsight Table inserting the Alt and the TAS but it seems to be something wrong because the angle that the Table tells me made my bombs go wrong..

Any idea? Any new App to get the angle?

Torric270
Oct-15-2015, 11:10
Guys I have a problem..

It's since a couple of weeks that I'm trying to Bomb using the He111-H2 without the AUTOdrop sistem.

I get 6k then I drop until I reach 300 km/h and I engage R22, and all go fine till I meet the Targets.

Now I use the Coolander App to get correct Altitude and and TAS and I insert this data in the Bombsight.

And here is my big problem, what's the Angle????
I'm using the old Il2 Bombsight Table inserting the Alt and the TAS but it seems to be something wrong because the angle that the Table tells me made my bombs go wrong..

Any idea? Any new App to get the angle?

No app that I know of, but at 6k the angle is ~ 22 deg. If you made your ending alt 6k then this would give you starting point for trial and error testing by keeping alt and and airspeed a constant as my speed and my series delay may give different results then you are expecting.

Set up a mission in FMB to bomb a target/airfield, that way you can do alot of testing in a short amount of time.

VII.Racetrack
Oct-15-2015, 13:33
How can you know the correct angle if you don't know speed?
You Angle is correct because I tried 5 second ago i scored many hits... But How do you know?

I'm stuck :( :( Somebody heeelp meee eheheh

III./ZG76_Saipan
Oct-15-2015, 13:47
practice and keeps records i guess if you do manual drops. alot of work i think. i dont get why you wouldnt know the speed. the 22 degrees at 6k or higher is based on experience i bet. the sight max alt is 6k.

1lokos
Oct-15-2015, 14:41
UAI_Shkrab put a angle table - relative to plane speed there:

http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14236

Torric270
Oct-15-2015, 14:46
How can you know the correct angle if you don't know speed?
You Angle is correct because I tried 5 second ago i scored many hits... But How do you know?

I'm stuck :( :( Somebody heeelp meee eheheh

i use 400 TAS as a starting point for both the 88 and 111. Speed varies a little on each mission depending on how long in mode 22 and how well it has levelled out. Once i hit the auto, i adjust the speed until the crosshairs stop moving.

The bombsights are not perfectly calibrated so there is this method or the other is to enter your exact current numbers, say 280 IAS/390 TAS for 5900m. Hit auto and crosshairs will not be steady, you then have to. manually adjust up/down to keep the crosshairs on target.

So, i know the speed i am usually at that ~22 degs works for, but your speed may be different depending on engine settings, that's why i suggested the trial and error.

VII.Racetrack
Oct-16-2015, 02:35
UAI_Shkrab put a angle table - relative to plane speed there:

http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14236

You mean this?

Vпр. Угол

160 9
170 10
180 11
190 12
200 13
210 14
220 15
230 16
240 17
250 18
260 19
270 20
280 21
290 22
300 23
310 24
320 25
330 26
340 27

InvaderZim
Oct-19-2015, 15:28
I use the method Torric mentions here:

"The bombsights are not perfectly calibrated so there is this method or the other is to enter your exact current numbers, say 280 IAS/390 TAS for 5900m. Hit auto and crosshairs will not be steady, you then have to. manually adjust up/down to keep the crosshairs on target."

VII.Racetrack
Oct-21-2015, 09:18
I use the method Torric mentions here:

"The bombsights are not perfectly calibrated so there is this method or the other is to enter your exact current numbers, say 280 IAS/390 TAS for 5900m. Hit auto and crosshairs will not be steady, you then have to. manually adjust up/down to keep the crosshairs on target."


Yes but I don't like that method... It kills immersion for me, I prefer to do the math myself and then Drop manually on the Target....
It seems that the correct Angle of drop is about 10 degrees minus from the old "Il2 Bombsight Table" that were used on Il2-46. (For 32Kg bombs have to subtract 2 more degres)
I keep trying and trying and trying at different Altitude and Speed in my own server...
Hope I'll find the Solution...