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MajorBorris
May-14-2012, 14:45
Well it seems a little momentum has been built for a bomber meet on the weekend since the alpha's multi engine ctd fix, if would be nice if we can come up with a time for the euro's and americas and name.

We had "Bomber Night" for bit with cool mission objectives laid out till the multi engine ctd killed us all but it would be a good time to try somthing like that again.

Maybe we can start a new Thread @1c for an official ATAG Event? Or not, it could be as simple as "lets all meet at this time for some epic bomber sorties" if you like that sort of thing.

I'm interested in your input, what do you guys think, strategy, planes type's, bomber mission parameters, squad size, flight leaders, markings, before mission should we have a brief with alt and bearings and target from our flight leader, ideas....?

Anything we can think of to help create that epic feeling of coordinated massed bombers escorted to a heavily defended target, ending in Reds capitulation of course :Grin:

ATAG_Septic
May-14-2012, 15:22
This is a great endeavor Doc.

I wonder whether any mission would need to be more complex than simply one side of bombers attacks, whilst another side of fighters defend. I suspect it would all go pear-shaped when the sides meet. Would it be possible for there to be a big target for one side to bomb, necessitating a big formation, which is what many of us want to try. Then, other smaller and spread-out targets for the other side to bomb. This way both sides could have some choice and there would need to be some tactics.

I've just read this back to myself and doing so confirms my belief I haven't a clue about mission building or organising (in English it's an s not a z).

I think all I can do is turn up :-)

Septic.

Doc
May-14-2012, 15:23
Lets discuss this. Meeting time for the discussion?? We need to set the ground work for this and get the word out to all pilots that will be available to lead their groups on both sides.

Doc
May-14-2012, 15:25
Septic perhaps we can have 2 large objectives that need to be taken out in a certain time or the blue loses. That puts RAF strictly what they were doing then anyway. Defense!!

III./ZG76_Keller
May-14-2012, 15:34
Call me Mr. Negative, but I still get a slideshow when there are multiple aircraft in my vicinity.

Last night at the Ramsgate Beaufighters there were 7 planes within 1 km of me and I had 1-2 fps until I left the area; other pilots on comms stated the same.

I want to try large formation flying but I fear the same low framerates will occur.

MajorBorris
May-14-2012, 16:08
Call me Mr. Negative, but I still get a slideshow when there are multiple aircraft in my vicinity.

Last night at the Ramsgate Beaufighters there were 7 planes within 1 km of me and I had 1-2 fps until I left the area; other pilots on comms stated the same.

I want to try large formation flying but I fear the same low framerates will occur.

We have to fix that, your system should be ok I would think. One of the game settings is bottlenecking the cpu or gpu or vram maybe.

Going on formation? kill the trees/grass/AA....we will figure it out by testing with you Keller, others will encounter the same then maybe we can:help:

MajorBorris
May-14-2012, 16:14
This is a great endeavor Doc.

I wonder whether any mission would need to be more complex than simply one side of bombers attacks, whilst another side of fighters defend. I suspect it would all go pear-shaped when the sides meet. Would it be possible for there to be a big target for one side to bomb, necessitating a big formation, which is what many of us want to try. Then, other smaller and spread-out targets for the other side to bomb. This way both sides could have some choice and there would need to be some tactics.

I've just read this back to myself and doing so confirms my belief I haven't a clue about mission building or organising (in English it's an s not a z).

I think all I can do is turn up :-)

Septic.

A big industrial area would be cool, wall to wall factories:coolio:

III./ZG76_Keller
May-14-2012, 16:25
We have to fix that, your system should be ok I would think. One of the game settings is bottlenecking the cpu or gpu or vram maybe.

Going on formation? kill the trees/grass/AA....we will figure it out by testing with you Keller, others will encounter the same then maybe we can:help:

ATAG_Keller (Resident Guinea Pig) reporting for duty! :salute:

Doc
May-14-2012, 16:28
Keller we need to get it sorted out asap.

If you place fuel trucks in and around the objective the size of the G7 with the 17 ships it would be helpful since they would really light up when hit. Unless its one of them stupid it works in FMB but doesn't work on server.

But you can light up nicely them fuel trucks if you place them around these big buildings.

MajorBorris
May-14-2012, 16:30
Lets discuss this. Meeting time for the discussion?? We need to set the ground work for this and get the word out to all pilots that will be available to lead their groups on both sides.

For sure, every night/day this week that we can chat with the ATAG guys and see what everyone thinks.:thumbsup:

Ill be on @6pm cst

Doc
May-14-2012, 16:32
This is not a democracy. They take their orders and execute them.

:bgsmile:

P.S. Or they'll end up on the eastern front!!

P.S.S. Whenever that comes out.

III./ZG76_Keller
May-14-2012, 16:41
I'm always looking for practice in formation flying, anyone want to give it a go a couple nights this week in preparation?

MajorBorris
May-14-2012, 17:10
This is a great endeavor Doc.

I wonder whether any mission would need to be more complex than simply one side of bombers attacks, whilst another side of fighters defend. I suspect it would all go pear-shaped when the sides meet. Would it be possible for there to be a big target for one side to bomb, necessitating a big formation, which is what many of us want to try. Then, other smaller and spread-out targets for the other side to bomb. This way both sides could have some choice and there would need to be some tactics.

I've just read this back to myself and doing so confirms my belief I haven't a clue about mission building or organising (in English it's an s not a z).

I think all I can do is turn up :-)

Septic.

Great stuff Septic,

Maybe a series of missions that give red and blue a chance to fly the other mission type with out switching color.

First mission blue attack main target.

Second mission Red attack main target.

Third mission Blue/Red both have targets for a tie breaker...

We should all bounce ideas off each other on coms asap

MajorBorris
May-14-2012, 17:10
I'm always looking for practice in formation flying, anyone want to give it a go a couple nights this week in preparation?

I will:thumbsup:

ATAG_Septic
May-14-2012, 17:16
I will:thumbsup:

Count me in! If I can keep my eyes open :-)

Septic

Doc
May-14-2012, 19:02
I think there should be a mission crafted just for this.

A date / time set.

And nothing else.

Blues to get on 2 hours before on a special comms channel to get briefing.

Then at zero hour it starts.

But mission should be kept secret until mission day.

III./ZG76_Keller
May-14-2012, 23:21
Doc, Boris and I had a great night flying bombers. We do need some practice though, as we found out shortly after this picture was taken.

:bgsmile:

725

Doc
May-15-2012, 00:07
Sweet pic! Going to get a small frame for my desk at work. Will be a ton a questions!

ATAG_EvangelusE
May-15-2012, 00:50
Certainly up for that! I hope the bombers are going to try their high altitude bomb sight skills for a bit of added realism and some fighter to fighter altitude confrontations.......:thumbsup:

ATAG_Knuckles
May-15-2012, 08:59
I'd like in on this. Actually this is where I hope ATAG goes, networking group missions that all can be involved in.

I know you are talking to a "Blue" bomber group , perhaps I can be of assistance on the Red side to organize things. i.e. fighter groups at specified airfields,

let me know , as I am open all day/night Pacific time zone

ATAG_Septic
May-15-2012, 09:07
I'd like in on this. Actually this is where I hope ATAG goes, networking group missions that all can be involved in.

I know you are talking to a "Blue" bomber group , perhaps I can be of assistance on the Red side to organize things. i.e. fighter groups at specified airfields,

let me know , as I am open all day/night Pacific time zone

Thanks Knuckles, I'm on GMT + 1 so might not be around when you are? Anyhoo, I'm always happy to fly either-side's bombers so can do a small amount to help balance if necessary. Although I'm sure I've seen more Blenheims on recently, maybe because they're not quite so eager to overheat. :-)

Septic.

Marmus
May-15-2012, 12:11
Just a bit of encouragement for this idea! Bombers Nights can be a lot of fun.

I miss the Bomber Nights over at Spits vs 109s for IL-2:1946 prior to CloD tearing apart the community into 2 divisions....some of my best memories from those Friday Nights.

MajorBorris
May-15-2012, 12:25
Doc, Boris and I had a great night flying bombers. We do need some practice though, as we found out shortly after this picture was taken.

:bgsmile:

725

Great shot, only this time the before looks better then the after lol:blush!:

III./ZG76_Keller
May-15-2012, 12:30
Great shot, only this time the before looks better then the after lol:blush!:

Damnit, how did I spell your name wrong??? :blush!:

ATAG_Knuckles
May-15-2012, 12:33
Damnit, how did I spell your name wrong??? :blush!:

But isn't "Boris" the German spelling ???? :hpyclp:

III./ZG76_Keller
May-15-2012, 12:52
But isn't "Boris" the German spelling ???? :hpyclp:

Good point. Borris, I demand you change your name to match my picture. :bgsmile:

MajorBorris
May-15-2012, 13:07
Saddly, I entered the world a common man not unlike many of us.

Then one day over a decade ago a sim was born and in that sim I wanted to be just like the heroes of yesteryear.

Lacking any real imagination of my own and yearning for historical acuracy I decided to dedicate my il2 siming career to a man, an ace, a hero of his homeland.

Plus I thought his name sounded kewl:Grin:

http://www.luftwaffe.cz/borris.html

http://www.defendingarnhem.com/borris.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Borris

Dont worry though, Borris I am assured, sounds just like Boris...in German;)

ATAG_Knuckles
May-15-2012, 13:27
Borris: thats about the coolest idea I have ever seen, really !. sometimes I wonder where people get those absolutely goofy names, ( a thread I sometimes wish to start, but know better) Often also wonder why we just dont use our real names. Unless of course your real name happens to be something like "Charles Manson"

Personally it would be really cool if all of us could take the name of someone we revere or admire, simply out of respect.

Too late for me: Here is where "Knuckles" Came from

727

Yep just my goofy dog !!

Doc
May-15-2012, 13:29
borris: Thats about the coolest idea i have ever seen, really !. Sometimes i wonder where people get those absolutely goofy names, ( a thread i sometimes wish to start, but know better) often also wonder why we just dont use our real names. Unless of course your real name happens to be something like "charles manson"

personally it would be really cool if all of us could take the name of someone we revere or admire, simply out of respect.

Too late for me: Here is where "knuckles" came from

727

yep just my goofy dog !!

lol!

This K9 has personality.

MajorBorris
May-15-2012, 13:42
I also have a rule regarding timelines and names.

Rule #1) No name I choose may be outside of a givin era.

For instance, in ww2 sim I may not name myself Lightsaber, or other tech related names that just dont make sence for the period.

Rule#2) My name may not contain numbers, kewl spellings or clever puns, sorry, if Rommel is taken to bad for me.

General Ramen59 anyone? ;)

Blackdog_kt
May-15-2012, 15:28
Hey there. I took the plunge and decided to register since i'm flying somewhat often on your server.

About the bomber night, if its a weekend event i'm interested.

What i can do regarding bombers:

I can fly the Blenheim comfortably. Especially now that the excessive yaw to the right is corrected, new CEM and partial flap extension is available, taking off is not a problem even at 100% fuel and a full bombload.

I've been flying the Ju88 on the server last couple of sessions and i can make a one hour sortie or longer without blowing up engines. I don't think i've optimized everything, but nothing breaks throughout the most strenuous phase (take-off and climb).
I can take off with a full bomb load and 50% fuel easily, i'm comfortable with trimming it for level flight or climb and i can divebomb with some accuracy (actually my aim is good, the dive procedure and choice of point where i roll into the dive is what needs a bit of work). So i can easily use that one too.

We can't level bomb solo in the 88 because of the bugged gyrocompass which prevents us from engaging autopilot, but if one is multi-crewed the bombardier could guide the pilot through the bomb run and the rest of the flight could drop on the lead bomber's signal. The disadvantage is that losing the lead bomber will mean the whole flight can't level bomb. The workaround is to take a delayed fuse loadout and revert to a diving attack if this happens.

About the 111, i haven't flown it in a while but i was really comfortable with it pre-patch in terms of take-off, climb out, cruise and use of the autopilot. What concerns me is the state of the bombsight. Do we still need to convert km/h to mph in order for it to calculate a correct release point to hit the aim point? If this has been corrected, the 111 will be the easiest option for blue because it currently climbs/higher better than the 88 and we can have full autopilot functionality. This lets us have back-up lead bombers in case one of them goes down.

The Br.20 i know almost nothing about :bgsmile:


What i can't do:

Lead a raid. I can navigate well enough in the part of the map we mostly use in the missions running on the server, but i'm having a bit of trouble finding targets sometimes because of my reduced graphics settings. Same goes for navigating over unfamiliar terrain or areas with a lot of rivers (like some portions of France).
For example, a day or two ago i made 3-4 attempts before i managed to find the armory target in G7, circling in my 88.

Coupled with a few other technical difficulties, i would be more of a liability than an asset if i was to lead. My mouse wheel is spiking so i get erratic map zoom control and my freetrack setup is not very good, so my situational awareness is compromised sometimes. However, i can answer some of the easy "how to" questions that people who are new to bombers might have and i can calculate flight plans: getting true heading from the map and obtaining a heading to fly through magnetic/true conversion, calculating TAS, calculating estimated flight time for each leg. I could do this during the pre-flight briefing, if the leader gave me the waypoints i could give the flight a list of headings to fly and ETAs for each one.



I would be all for a briefing and a bit of organization, we could even do this by circulating a text document (or even a plaintext forum post) here and on the 1c forums when/if the event is announced. This document could contain all a pilot would need to know for each team, apart from the actual flightplan and target selection. Doing so would save time from explaining everything on TS, but to cover all possibilities a briefing recap could be held on TS once everyone has joined, about 30-45 minutes before mission start, where the target and waypoints could also be discussed.

What to cover? Here's two i can think of, by all means chip in to expand the list :)

Brief operating instructions for each bomber: start up/taxi, take-off, climb, cruise, landing, along with respective CEM settings. This would be just the cliff notes.

Brief description of bombsight operation, as well as autopilots where applicable.

Maybe a bit on formation flying and how to merge with one while the flight is circling the field to form up.




All of this doesn't have to be super-precise and scientific i think. Just enough to nudge people to give it a try in case they are missing some information, but not too in-depth to discourage them. We'll be having leaders anyway, as well as people who have flown bombers before to talk them through it if they need help.

I think the idea is to give off a vibe of "it's doable" and get them involved, then learn as we go. Don't let my organisational tone fool you, i fully expect a healthy dose of hilarity during the first few runs :bgsmile:

I think we're going to have a great time either way :thumbsup:

ATAG_Septic
May-15-2012, 16:32
Welcome to the forum old chap!

Septic.

klaw123
May-24-2012, 13:32
Whatto chaps, I have been reading about your plans for a bomber night, I must say Im interested too, breifing before flight etc, all adding to the anticipation, ready for the off. I am new to this sim and still honing my skills, I prefer the 110 at the moment and look forward to completing my mission as best I can. My navigation isnt great, so would not be able to lead, but can form up, and do the business with a couple of 250lb bombs.

I too have had a bit of a slide show when 2/3 a/c are in my area, hopefully this can be fixed. An observation from my IL2 Sturmovick mission building days, too many fires/objects used really do the fps no good at all, I'm not sure if this is any better in Clod.

I am in GMT+1 time zone, so I guess it would be early am here when the mission started? That could be good, I play in a rock band and have several Saturdays booked, but should be home in time to meet up and fly.

Cheers chaps, see you in the skies soon.

ATAG_Knuckles
May-24-2012, 13:57
Another Musician :blush!:

Klaw, so what do you play, what do you have, what music do you like, ahhh what else oh yeah influences ??

and dont be shy most of us here favor some pretty hard stuff !!!!

Peaveywolf
May-24-2012, 15:10
We never have really talked about our fav bands, or influences that made us take the guitar up in the first place

III./ZG76_Keller
May-24-2012, 18:15
We never have really talked about our fav bands, or influences that made us take the guitar up in the first place

You should start a new thread on that one, it'd be very interesting.

Doc
May-24-2012, 19:10
Yes start a new thread please! This is a gold topic.

Atreides
May-24-2012, 19:24
Will the bomber missions include flying a Ju 88 through a hangar?

klaw123
May-25-2012, 08:47
As requested, new topic started....for all the muso's in ATAG land.

Atreides
May-28-2012, 23:31
If I may put my two eurocents in:

Attack mission for blue:
Targets on the London docks. Red bases to include Biggin Hill.

Attack mission for red:
Targets in or near Caen or Cherbourg.

The stability of the new patch has allowed us to fly 10 bf 110s close to each other last week without anyone CTD'ing. Sometimes there are as many as 80 people on the server. Big targets over great distances with a direct line to that target from their bases over enemy airfields can make for some interesting gameplay.

Doc
May-28-2012, 23:50
If I may put my two eurocents in:

Attack mission for blue:
Targets on the London docks. Red bases to include Biggin Hill.

Attack mission for red:
Targets in or near Caen or Cherbourg.

The stability of the new patch has allowed us to fly 10 bf 110s close to each other last week without anyone CTD'ing. Sometimes there are as many as 80 people on the server. Big targets over great distances with a direct line to that target from their bases over enemy airfields can make for some interesting gameplay.

I agree with that. That old bomber weekend mission that was done long time ago was great. That would be perfect!

MajorBorris
May-29-2012, 07:48
Will the bomber missions include flying a Ju 88 through a hangar?

I hope so lol

MajorBorris
May-29-2012, 07:53
Hey there. I took the plunge and decided to register since i'm flying somewhat often on your server.

About the bomber night, if its a weekend event i'm interested.

What i can do regarding bombers:

I can fly the Blenheim comfortably. Especially now that the excessive yaw to the right is corrected, new CEM and partial flap extension is available, taking off is not a problem even at 100% fuel and a full bombload.

I've been flying the Ju88 on the server last couple of sessions and i can make a one hour sortie or longer without blowing up engines. I don't think i've optimized everything, but nothing breaks throughout the most strenuous phase (take-off and climb).
I can take off with a full bomb load and 50% fuel easily, i'm comfortable with trimming it for level flight or climb and i can divebomb with some accuracy (actually my aim is good, the dive procedure and choice of point where i roll into the dive is what needs a bit of work). So i can easily use that one too.

We can't level bomb solo in the 88 because of the bugged gyrocompass which prevents us from engaging autopilot, but if one is multi-crewed the bombardier could guide the pilot through the bomb run and the rest of the flight could drop on the lead bomber's signal. The disadvantage is that losing the lead bomber will mean the whole flight can't level bomb. The workaround is to take a delayed fuse loadout and revert to a diving attack if this happens.

About the 111, i haven't flown it in a while but i was really comfortable with it pre-patch in terms of take-off, climb out, cruise and use of the autopilot. What concerns me is the state of the bombsight. Do we still need to convert km/h to mph in order for it to calculate a correct release point to hit the aim point? If this has been corrected, the 111 will be the easiest option for blue because it currently climbs/higher better than the 88 and we can have full autopilot functionality. This lets us have back-up lead bombers in case one of them goes down.

The Br.20 i know almost nothing about :bgsmile:


What i can't do:

Lead a raid. I can navigate well enough in the part of the map we mostly use in the missions running on the server, but i'm having a bit of trouble finding targets sometimes because of my reduced graphics settings. Same goes for navigating over unfamiliar terrain or areas with a lot of rivers (like some portions of France).
For example, a day or two ago i made 3-4 attempts before i managed to find the armory target in G7, circling in my 88.

Coupled with a few other technical difficulties, i would be more of a liability than an asset if i was to lead. My mouse wheel is spiking so i get erratic map zoom control and my freetrack setup is not very good, so my situational awareness is compromised sometimes. However, i can answer some of the easy "how to" questions that people who are new to bombers might have and i can calculate flight plans: getting true heading from the map and obtaining a heading to fly through magnetic/true conversion, calculating TAS, calculating estimated flight time for each leg. I could do this during the pre-flight briefing, if the leader gave me the waypoints i could give the flight a list of headings to fly and ETAs for each one.



I would be all for a briefing and a bit of organization, we could even do this by circulating a text document (or even a plaintext forum post) here and on the 1c forums when/if the event is announced. This document could contain all a pilot would need to know for each team, apart from the actual flightplan and target selection. Doing so would save time from explaining everything on TS, but to cover all possibilities a briefing recap could be held on TS once everyone has joined, about 30-45 minutes before mission start, where the target and waypoints could also be discussed.

What to cover? Here's two i can think of, by all means chip in to expand the list :)

Brief operating instructions for each bomber: start up/taxi, take-off, climb, cruise, landing, along with respective CEM settings. This would be just the cliff notes.

Brief description of bombsight operation, as well as autopilots where applicable.

Maybe a bit on formation flying and how to merge with one while the flight is circling the field to form up.




All of this doesn't have to be super-precise and scientific i think. Just enough to nudge people to give it a try in case they are missing some information, but not too in-depth to discourage them. We'll be having leaders anyway, as well as people who have flown bombers before to talk them through it if they need help.

I think the idea is to give off a vibe of "it's doable" and get them involved, then learn as we go. Don't let my organisational tone fool you, i fully expect a healthy dose of hilarity during the first few runs :bgsmile:

I think we're going to have a great time either way :thumbsup:

Great points Blackdog:thumbsup:

Marmus
Aug-04-2012, 12:43
Bump.

Can the Bomber Night idea get revived? Latest patch will make things better.

I miss bomber nights in Il-2:1946 on Spits vs 109s.....some great memories.

Build it.....and they will come.

Doc
Aug-04-2012, 15:56
I'm always up for a large and well organized formation of bombers any mission.

Atreides
Aug-07-2012, 11:09
With the new patches bomber flights of 5 or more escorted by 109-pilots who happen to be on ts seem to happen regularly and are great fun. No more CTD's. Remember when you had to restart your game every 40 mins or so and keep distance from twin engined planes. Those times seem to be the past. Regular evenings with big bomber flights would attract a lot of people (including reds yearning to take some of those BFB's down).

ATAG_Knuckles
Aug-07-2012, 11:17
NOW !! all you Belnheim pilots can come out from under the rocks you have been hiding under::::::::: Weenies !!!!!:geek:

ATAG_Septic
Aug-07-2012, 11:37
NOW !! all you Belnheim pilots can come out from under the rocks you have been hiding under Weenies !!!!!:geek:

In all honesty I find the Blenheim too vulnerable to fly solo. The 110 is similar but you can multi-role it. I'm not complaining but it's a loooong flight only to get pinged. I'd say the Blenheim demands teamwork, two or three allied aircraft over a target seems to dramatically increase survivability.

Septic.

ATAG_Knuckles
Aug-07-2012, 11:49
In all honesty I find the Blenheim too vulnerable to fly solo. The 110 is similar but you can multi-role it. I'm not complaining but it's a loooong flight only to get pinged. I'd say the Blenheim demands teamwork, two or three allied aircraft over a target seems to dramatically increase survivability.

Septic.


Absolutely true Septic:: Solo Blenheim is a waste of time, Probably why I haven't been in it for a while; Hopefully some of those old time Blenny pilots will surface so we can get back to the 4 to 5 bomber formation: That was a hoot !!!!!

Dutch
Aug-07-2012, 12:58
If they'd just remove the 10 ton truck the Blenny is towing I'd be there!

Ah me, those were the days eh Knuckles? Seems aaaaages ago now.

ATAG_Colander
Aug-07-2012, 14:36
If they'd just remove the 10 ton truck the Blenny is towing I'd be there!

Drop the bombs after takeoff, it will be lighter! :D

ATAG_Deacon
Aug-07-2012, 14:43
In all honesty I find the Blenheim too vulnerable to fly solo. The 110 is similar but you can multi-role it. I'm not complaining but it's a loooong flight only to get pinged. I'd say the Blenheim demands teamwork, two or three allied aircraft over a target seems to dramatically increase survivability.

Septic.

Let me know when you're ready to go...I'm happy to escort in a Spitty :thumbsup: I'm no good with those big, multi-engine things...

Marmus
Aug-07-2012, 14:59
Bump.

Can the Bomber Night idea get revived? Latest patch will make things better.

I miss bomber nights in Il-2:1946 on Spits vs 109s.....some great memories.

Build it.....and they will come.

To clarify my request idea....

...Spits vs 109 server used to run (and still does in IL-2:1946) a different special mission every Friday night at 10:00pm EST US time, specially designed for bomber missions. Usually one sided, e.i. one week Blue bombers, next week Red bombers, Fighter pilots were still needed to escort the bombers and defend the objective. Primary and Secondary targets were give.

It was a nice sight to see 20+ bombers spawn at one base, organize on taxi ways and take off, then group together at rally area then head to target area and head home to land.

Just and idea....

ATAG_Septic
Aug-07-2012, 15:02
To clarify my request idea....

...Spits vs 109 server used to run (and still does in IL-2:1946) a different special mission every Friday night at 10:00pm EST US time, specially designed for bomber missions. Usually one sided, e.i. one week Blue bombers, next week Red bombers, Fighter pilots were still needed to escort the bombers and defend the objective. Primary and Secondary targets were give.

It was a nice sight to see 20+ bombers spawn at one base, organize on taxi ways and take off, then group together at rally area then head to target area and head home to land.

Just and idea....

A great one too, maybe soon it will be possible :)

Doc
Aug-07-2012, 16:15
I wouldn't venture out in a Blen alone now days.

I wish more Blen pilots would fly sorties and have more escorts. I haven't seen an organized Blen formation with fighter escort in many months.

It's a shame that many run their TS server when you could easily get on coms for the mission at hand.

Many times I have seen Snapper in coms all by himself and there are 10 red planes on the server. We blue guys have dragged him down to our channel just to keep him company. :)

I don't understand the "we want to wall off ours from everyone else" and screw you thing.

Never see that on blue.

I guess this is why blues will keep dominating.

Wolf
Aug-10-2012, 00:17
I have a new mission idea for Bomber night. It is almost completed (80%). Would you like me to build a dedicated "(No AI)" or "AI fighter intercept ONLY " Bomber Mission ? (take 1 week to do)


There would be 1 or 2 airfields to take of from on each side. You use the menu to call up a random High level Bomber mission (40+ different targets). Or call up 1 of 10 Carpet bomb targets. The missions involve navigating flack and hitting large targets and you would be attacked by multiple AI Intercepts (of different strength) along the way. Friendly fighter support would be limited to 1-3 Human fighters.

:recon:

As a second stage to this. I can add that a Recon flight (1-2 fighters from forward base) must preceed the Bombers to identify the targets as a recon flight (in a specific time or trigger recon). Again navigate flack and interceptors?

Any takers? Or should I abandon build? :doh:



Ok so I have too much time at work. Mission ready. I will call it Bomber Command. I think i have a theme.

The coding is complete. All I will do no is look at adding more diverse missions. And when I get home I will adjust the .mis file to remove all but 2 Runways.

Announcing Bomber Command:

Slimmer version of the Online Slim version of Channel Command.

For people who want to Blow shit up!

Features:
Coop Style Bombing missions
• Full menu as in Channel Command.
• Call up Random Bombing Missions
• Small, medium , large (carpet bomb) and high altitude bombing missions
• Human fighter support limited to 2 aircraft
• Staged difficulty. The more targets you succeed in bombing the harder it will get. Enemy Defence will get harder.
• Random intercept flights from enemy AI.
• Air Balloon defence wires now cut your plane.
• Complete scoring (Make it home bonus)
• 40+ Random and hidden bombing objectives
• 20+ random missions (never fly the same mission each night).
• Supported: Send in your Target to me to be added to the missions as a specific called mission list. (Top 8 stay in game each week).


These are Human Bombing missions only. No AI Bombers spawned. It is intended for Bomber nights where people who like flying bombers can fly in big groups as a collective.

Go Live next week.


To do: it can wait, but will program in the Recon flights from forward base also. if you think you would like it.

ATAG_Knuckles
Aug-10-2012, 09:21
Thats right up my alley: Spits are getting a little too cramped anyway

Thanks Wolf

Marmus
Aug-10-2012, 09:27
Build it and they will come!!

Warhound
Aug-10-2012, 14:44
Whenever there is a bombernight I'll do my best to be present.
Just like Marmus I loved the fridaynight bomberevents in 1946 and my comments below are thus based on my experience there.

A few thoughts from my side :

-Preferably pick a peakhour for the server to ensure a good turnout. Think this is usually 8 to 10PM UTC or 1 to 3am UTC on a friday, saturday or sunday?

-If possible hold a few advertised training events per week. This is especially helpful early on to get willing bomberpilots up to speed, practise formation flying(powersettings for climb,cruise, holding formation in turns etc) as well as discussing tactics, loadouts and safe routes. This can be done whenever on the regular server.

-To start out I'd keep the events easy, what I mean by this is not making the first event a He-111 Bombing mission over London at 6k height.
Start with fe. a Ju-87 event, then a 110 event, a skipbombing blenheim one, then a divebombing Ju-88 mission, and only then go for the levelbombing missions.
This allows pilots to get accustomed to formation flying, accustomed to their plane(s) and gives them time to join the training events (or train on their own/with friends) and learn the ins and outs of levelbombing beforehand.

-Personally I'm not a big fan of AI during bombernights at all. As a bomber I want both my escorts and attackers to be humans.
Maybe a single, smallish AI bomber formation as diversion?

-I don't think recon flights would add much, they were usually done a good while in advance and if it fails you would have 10-20 frustrated bombers in the air with no target to hit.

-As it's a bombernight, accommodations should be made to help the bombers. To me this means limited interceptors(max 10?) and unlimited bombers and escorts.
With 3 escorts the bombers likely won't ever reach their target, never mind make it back home. At first contact 1 escort will be shot down, one will stray and hunt an enemy for 15minutes and the other will run out of fuel.
Then with no escorts remaining the leftover bombers will be cleaned up easily by a few interceptors.
Don't forget interceptors can quickly rejoin the fight as they start ahead of the formation and you often see the same guy attacking a single formation 3-4x with a new plane, while escorts need to start way back and catch up again.
Maybe even reduce the range and frequency of radar detection so they don't know our location the second we take off.

-Make one map for Red bombernights and one for Blue. This ensures people are focused on the event and it doesn't turn into a regular dogfight night with a few bombers present.
Aditionally make the missions mirror real raids, even if this means adding a Blemheim raid from '43 orso. It enhances immersion and always feels fun to reenact events that really happened.

-Add as much black flak around the targets as performance allows, flying a formation of bombers through a flak curtain is part of the fun.
It might need balancing regarding accuracy though as compared to 1946, in CLOD minor damage already takes a bomber out of the fight.

-2 or 3 bomber bases aren't a luxury, with just one base the 2nd and following flights will be strafed to oblivion if there is only 1 airbase..heck fast interceptors can even get to that base before all bombers are warmed up and on the runway for the first takeoff (this often takes 15-20minutes).
Fighter bases a bit forward from the bomber bases would allow escorts to more easily intercept base attackers.

-The event should be winnable in 2-3 successful attacks, as a single flight can take 2+ hours already and most people have limited time and patience.



Guess that's all, hope there is something useful in there.
And whatever you end up making, I'll be present to help screw things up.
Who doesn't like a big midair collision that takes out 5 planes. :talk: :guilty:

ATAG_Colander
Aug-10-2012, 15:34
-As it's a bombernight, accommodations should be made to help the bombers. To me this means limited interceptors(max 10?) and unlimited bombers and escorts.
With 3 escorts the bombers likely won't ever reach their target, never mind make it back home. At first contact 1 escort will be shot down, one will stray and hunt an enemy for 15minutes and the other will run out of fuel.
Then with no escorts remaining the leftover bombers will be cleaned up easily by a few interceptors.
Don't forget interceptors can quickly rejoin the fight as they start ahead of the formation and you often see the same guy attacking a single formation 3-4x with a new plane, while escorts need to start way back and catch up again.
Maybe even reduce the range and frequency of radar detection so they don't know our location the second we take off.


I like this... how about making the defending spawn points far from the targets? this way it would take a while for a fighter to intercept. For example:
http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=913&d=1344627204
X = Target
A = Bomber Spawn
B = Escort Spawn
C = Interceptor Spawn




913

ATAG_Bliss
Aug-10-2012, 17:49
Whenever there is a bombernight I'll do my best to be present.
Just like Marmus I loved the fridaynight bomberevents in 1946 and my comments below are thus based on my experience there.

A few thoughts from my side :

-Preferably pick a peakhour for the server to ensure a good turnout. Think this is usually 8 to 10PM UTC or 1 to 3am UTC on a friday, saturday or sunday?

-If possible hold a few advertised training events per week. This is especially helpful early on to get willing bomberpilots up to speed, practise formation flying(powersettings for climb,cruise, holding formation in turns etc) as well as discussing tactics, loadouts and safe routes. This can be done whenever on the regular server.

-To start out I'd keep the events easy, what I mean by this is not making the first event a He-111 Bombing mission over London at 6k height.
Start with fe. a Ju-87 event, then a 110 event, a skipbombing blenheim one, then a divebombing Ju-88 mission, and only then go for the levelbombing missions.
This allows pilots to get accustomed to formation flying, accustomed to their plane(s) and gives them time to join the training events (or train on their own/with friends) and learn the ins and outs of levelbombing beforehand.

-Personally I'm not a big fan of AI during bombernights at all. As a bomber I want both my escorts and attackers to be humans.
Maybe a single, smallish AI bomber formation as diversion?

-I don't think recon flights would add much, they were usually done a good while in advance and if it fails you would have 10-20 frustrated bombers in the air with no target to hit.

-As it's a bombernight, accommodations should be made to help the bombers. To me this means limited interceptors(max 10?) and unlimited bombers and escorts.
With 3 escorts the bombers likely won't ever reach their target, never mind make it back home. At first contact 1 escort will be shot down, one will stray and hunt an enemy for 15minutes and the other will run out of fuel.
Then with no escorts remaining the leftover bombers will be cleaned up easily by a few interceptors.
Don't forget interceptors can quickly rejoin the fight as they start ahead of the formation and you often see the same guy attacking a single formation 3-4x with a new plane, while escorts need to start way back and catch up again.
Maybe even reduce the range and frequency of radar detection so they don't know our location the second we take off.

-Make one map for Red bombernights and one for Blue. This ensures people are focused on the event and it doesn't turn into a regular dogfight night with a few bombers present.
Aditionally make the missions mirror real raids, even if this means adding a Blemheim raid from '43 orso. It enhances immersion and always feels fun to reenact events that really happened.

-Add as much black flak around the targets as performance allows, flying a formation of bombers through a flak curtain is part of the fun.
It might need balancing regarding accuracy though as compared to 1946, in CLOD minor damage already takes a bomber out of the fight.

-2 or 3 bomber bases aren't a luxury, with just one base the 2nd and following flights will be strafed to oblivion if there is only 1 airbase..heck fast interceptors can even get to that base before all bombers are warmed up and on the runway for the first takeoff (this often takes 15-20minutes).
Fighter bases a bit forward from the bomber bases would allow escorts to more easily intercept base attackers.

-The event should be winnable in 2-3 successful attacks, as a single flight can take 2+ hours already and most people have limited time and patience.



Guess that's all, hope there is something useful in there.
And whatever you end up making, I'll be present to help screw things up.
Who doesn't like a big midair collision that takes out 5 planes. :talk: :guilty:

Warhound - my thoughts exactly! :thumbsup:

Spits vs 109's way of doing Bomber night is perfect. This should definitely be left as the KISS method.

There should be 0 AI. And one side's objectives should be bombing 2-4 objectives and completing them while the other side's are to try and defend their targets / attack the bombers and their escorts.

I also agree about starting off easier. Say the 1st one includes stukas dive bombing etc. With no other bomber types. Maybe 110's as well? Then work up from there in later versions. But either way both sides should know the target area's they are attacking and/or defending right from the briefing screen. The simpler the better. As the whole sophistication in these types of missions should be human coordination and teamwork.

My .02c :)

MOHAWK
Aug-10-2012, 20:24
Man ! I sure do like the sound of these Bomber Knights , most likely you will have them on Fri or Sat nights ? just asking that once in awile you have them on a Mon or Tues Night for us poor Bastard's who dont have weekends off and have to work second shift , 25 years with the company and only way to hold weekends is Midnight shift , been there , done that, Not doing that again unless its (to keep the job) ----or even Bomber knights Sundays would allow me 2 join in's per month. ==just thought i would throw this out there for purely selfish reasons.==Thanks :recon::recon:: just lookin around to see if anyone gonna throw rocks at me ? first time i used one of these Do Hickey things , Hell, I'll even fly (The RedCoats ) Fighter for these, had to use the (RedCoats) in this post to counter the ever prevalent ( Colonials) I see from time to time .(Sep___ ) ?

Dutch
Aug-12-2012, 07:50
had to use the (RedCoats) in this post to counter the ever prevalent ( Colonials) I see from time to time .(Sep___ ) ?

I have no objection whatsoever to any Colonial referring to us as Redcoats. Quite a complement I'd say.

Here's a vid of me and my mates after six pints at my local the other day. :D


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_KeeKs1SnE&feature=related

MOHAWK
Aug-12-2012, 10:23
By Dutch = " I have no objection whatsoever to any Colonial referring to us as Redcoats " ----- Thats Good to hear Dutch , No Slight was meant , Nice Vid clip of your group there , Which one are you ? ----The Old Guy ????

Dutch
Aug-12-2012, 10:34
Yep, I'm the ugly fat one at the back who can't sing. But I was a bit pissed.......:D


So anyway, bomber nights, yes please! :)