Another Challenge?

[InvaderZim]

NEED FIGHTER PILOTS NOW!

As you know, last challenge saw RED team spoon feed BLUE teams a.. to them. :D RED team wants to know if we want to do it again. Well of course we don’t!

As you now know, RED team can muster the 71st, 69th and 20th into a dominating schwarm of Blennies and fighters. Over here on the BLUE side we are a loosly bound group of ATAGers, misc. group members and every day Joes who like to or can fly blue.

Red was able to muster in excess of 15 Blennies last time out. I need to know if Blue can put together a total of 15 JU88 and HE 111s plus fighter support into a cohesive unit that will stay together so we don’t get hammered the way we did last time.

If you can fly the Blue bombers, let me know. I will put a list together here to see if we can come up with a group that will be able to match the incredible Tommy force. IF we can get enough fighters now we are there. Red has agreed to make a time doable for the GMT time zones.

CHANGE IN TIME AND PLACE I CAN'T SAY IT BETTER: This from the red post

April 11th around 1300 PST/1600 EST/2000 GMT in the ATAG ***(SEE EDIT 2). The server will be reset just before mission time.
Flights and leads TBD. Briefing: 15 minutes before mission launch. Mission may last up to two hours.
All are welcome. Just let me know in here what you want to fly. If we can get enough interest in this we would like to try to run it every two weeks tm.
(EDIT* didn't include the time change)2100 BST and 2200 most western continental Europe
Edit 2 This will be in server 2 not the main.

This is still a first come first serve event! No need to register. If the server is full and a place opens on the server for you U-R-IN!

Fighter List:

DoubleStandards
JG27-Gaidin (tentative)
yotheguy
LBR=F.Stigler
Bubba_the_Punk
Redwulf__26
ATAG_Heavy (tentative)
JG25_Badger
ATAG_ Colander (tentative)

Bomber List:

III./ZG76_Saipan
ATAG_Dave
ATAG_Pantast
Volunteer
Wolverine
xvii-Hardegen
Peregrine
Godfather Actual
EG14_Marcast
72sq_Popale
22GCT_Aquila
ATAG_InvaderZim
BryanDraves
Beedo (tentative)
ATAG_StormBat
ATAG_Freya (tentative)
ATAG_DRock
ATAG_Mindle
ATAG_Paranoid

[III./ZG76_Saipan]

ill fly anything blue and german and as far as i know i am free that day

[ATAG_Flare]

Be prepared blue, we're gonna get even more this time! Prepare for the ULTIMATE ONSLAUGHT!

[Lucan]

Double post Sorry!

[Lucan]

As you know, last challenge saw RED team spoon feed BLUE teams a.. to them. :D RED team wants to know if we want to do it again. Well of course we don’t!

Red was able to muster in excess of 15 Blennies last time out. As much as I would like to say tell RED “SURE let’s do it”. I can’t. I need to know if Blue can put together a total of 15 JU88 and HE 111s plus fighter support into a cohesive unit that will stay together so we don’t get hammered the way we did last time.

Fighter List:

Bomber List:

It can be done Zim but requires a huge amount of organization ,secret planning and a map that does not funnel bombers down avenues .
Thanks to Tab-7-1 and other conditions present you have very limited options available for evasion from the enemy. Also the balance has to be right in aircraft numbers no point 50 Easyfires against 20 bombers,30 109s! The attacker is ment to have a numerical advantage and this will be extremely hard to achieve,
Lots of problems but none are insurmountable,Very well done in getting this type of night happening!!

Lucan.

-- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUusIUAbDm8

[ATAG_Dave]

Pantast and I will happily fly Blue for this event if it goes ahead to help the numbers. We would probably have to fly either stukas, 109s or 110s as required (ju88 etc not yet flown and not really my bag) and it will be pretty amateur stuff lol (no change there then...)

:salute:

[InvaderZim]

Pantast and I will happily fly Blue for this event if it goes ahead to help the numbers. We would probably have to fly either stukas, 109s or 110s as required (ju88 etc not yet flown and not really my bag) and it will be pretty amateur stuff lol (no change there then...)

:salute:


87s and 110s will probably make it into the mix.

Thanks!:salute:

[InvaderZim]

It can be done Zim but requires a huge amount of organization ,secret planning and a map that does not funnel bombers down avenues .
Thanks to Tab-7-1 and other conditions present you have very limited options available for evasion from the enemy. Also the balance has to be right in aircraft numbers no point 50 Easyfires against 20 bombers,30 109s! The attacker is ment to have a numerical advantage and this will be extremely hard to achieve,
Lots of problems but none are insurmountable,Very well done in getting this type of night happening!!

Lucan.

-- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUusIUAbDm8

So does this mean your in? Where, bomber or fighter? :recon:

[InvaderZim]

Be prepared blue, we're gonna get even more this time! Prepare for the ULTIMATE ONSLAUGHT!


AHHHH, Herr 2000XXX, NEVER underestimate the power of the everyday, non squadron flyin, power of BLUE Team. We are the home of some of the best un-taged and taged flyers on the server. We aim to put "slaughter" in the onslaught!:salute::-P

[InvaderZim]

DANG! That Logan guy forced my hand! Post Title changed, Challenge accepted! :devilish: Unless you want to see 4 or 5 of us duke it out against 50, you folks could jump in any time here! :)

[JG27-Gaidin]

I'll be there Zim, but won't get there until almost 1900 eastern. Hope it's still going on then!

Salute,
Gaidin

P.S.
Sign me up for another tour with "Lolsav's Rejects"!

[Volunteer]

I am definitely interested with my trusty Stuka! :)

[InvaderZim]

Done! Thank you!

[Logan]

DANG! That Logan guy forced my hand! Post Title changed, Challenge accepted! :devilish: Unless you want to see 4 or 5 of us duke it out against 50, you folks could jump in any time here! :)
Lol Zim, whatever the numbers turn out to be.. it will be a fun night!

[ATAG_yotheguy]

I would be down to fly for the blue side on this one. Is there any way to get ATAG to plan a specific map so we could make a battle plan? If not should still be tons of fun. I would rather fly fighters, but if we need the numbers I could fly bombers. :salute:

[InvaderZim]

Ya got yourself a fighter! Thanks Yo!

And thanks for the map reminder.

Z

[ATAG_yotheguy]

Ya got yourself a fighter! Thanks Yo!

Thanks InvaderZim:salute:

16334

[Wolverine]

Count me in for sure with my Stuka-87 but I need to to know the eastern time of the event. :)

[InvaderZim]

Count me in for sure with my Stuka-87 but I need to to know the eastern time of the event. :)


Thanks! Added. :salute: April 11th around 1300 PST/1600 EST/2000 GMT in the ATAG #2 server.

[Bubba_the_Punk]

Count me in for escort duty!

[Peregrine]

Hey Zim,
Can't guarantee it due to schedule but if its at all possible, ill be there flying the 88:thumbsup:

[LBR=F.Stigler]

S!

BF109 escort.

<o_

[xvii-Hardegen]

Count me in!
Primary choice Bf 110 ( fighter or fighter-bomber version depending on orders )
Secondary: Bf 109 or Ju 88
Third choice: Stuka ( only if really needed cause I'm not an expert with it )

Horrido!

[InvaderZim]

Done, Done, Done! Thank you for supporting your local Blue.:thumbsup:

[InvaderZim]

Please see the update in the opening post above for the time, server, and date.

Z

[EG14_Marcast]

I'm with you. in order of preference: Ju88, He111, Bf110 C7, Stuka.

[xvii-Hardegen]

So just too be sure...
event on second ATAG server 22:00 CEST Saturday 11th April appointment about 15 minutes earlier correct?

[EG14_Marcast]

I'm with you. in order of preference: Ju88, He111, Bf110 C7, Stuka.

22GCT_Aquila and 72sq_Popale will be there as well, same aircrafts

[Godfather Actual]

Put me in for 88s!!

[InvaderZim]

So just too be sure...
event on second ATAG server 22:00 CEST Saturday 11th April appointment about 15 minutes earlier correct?

Yes. You have it sir. Depending on you my man.:)

[InvaderZim]

Put me in for 88s!!

YAY! Glad ya showed up, I was going to PM ya if ya didn't! Thanks GF, 88 it is.

[InvaderZim]

I'm with you. in order of preference: Ju88, He111, Bf110 C7, Stuka.

Thank you for coming! We will be up aginst a very determined and swift group of Blennies. So JU88. I realy need to get a solid group of 88s going. Thanks again.:salute:

ZIM

[InvaderZim]

Done and Done!

[xvii-Hardegen]

Yes. You have it sir. Depending on you my man.

Danke mein Herr! :salute:

[Redwulf__26]

Put me down for 109 escort.

Vorwärts und aufwärts

[InvaderZim]

Put me down for 109 escort.

Vorwärts und aufwärts

Done! Thank you.:salute:

[ATAG_Lolsav]

This time i would rather participate as a Bomber, to take part on a BIG german wing. Much more fun if we accomplish that. (numbers of bombers were a bit shy for blue last time)

[InvaderZim]

This time i would rather participate as a Bomber, to take part on a BIG german wing. Much more fun if we accomplish that. (numbers of bombers were a bit shy for blue last time)

AGREED! DONE! And thank you!

Z

[DoubleStandards]

As I have recently switched to Blue, you can count me in for escort duty.


DS

[xvii-Hardegen]

As I have recently switched to Blue, you can count me in for escort duty.


DS

Welcome to the dark side so! :salute:

[Logan]

I hear ya'll got cookies over there. We got punch and pie! :P

[InvaderZim]

Thank you twice DoubleStandards! :salute: We neeed escorts! DONE!

[InvaderZim]

I hear ya'll got cookies over there. We got punch and pie! :P

:roflmao: We got Bier and Fraus! :devilish:

[DoubleStandards]

I just got sick of washing down those nasty crumpets with tea. :faint:

DS

[JG4_sKylon]

We started a thread in our forum collecting volunteers for this event.
Someone will get you informed.

[InvaderZim]

We started a thread in our forum collecting volunteers for this event.
Someone will get you informed.

JG4_sKylon,

Thank you! We are in "critical" need of escorts and and costal defense fighters. Escort duty "could" be exciting, Ideally I hope not! The costal defense mission will be most exciting for fighter pilots. During the last event, Reinhart reported that diving into a flight of 15 Blenheims and 15 escorts, all human flown, was "Terrifying" but fun. I expect more this time out.

You groups support is both needed and appreciated.


ZIM

[JG4_sKylon]

JG4_sKylon,

Thank you! We are in "critical" need of escorts and and costal defense fighters. Escort duty "could" be exciting, Ideally I hope not! The costal defense mission will be most exciting for fighter pilots. During the last event, Reinhart reported that diving into a flight of 15 Blenheims and 15 escorts, all human flown, was "Terrifying" but fun. I expect more this time out.

You groups support is both needed and appreciated.


ZIM


Victor!
I informed my mates about it, depending who / how much will take part we have to see which role we can play.

[DoubleStandards]

Come on Blue! We need more names on this list. As of this post Red has 19 bombers and 11 fighters committed. I imagine 71st and 20thBG will be fielding more pilots than what is currently listed. Blue currently has 5 fighter and 10 bombers committed. Right now on paper we are woefully outnumbered. Keep in mind, we need fighters for escort and to interdict Red bomber force.
If we get enough pilots, I suggest we try to field a hunter/destroyer group. We cant have our bomber escorts breaking off to respond to incoming Red bombers.

This should be a blast regardless of how it turns out. :)

DS

[InvaderZim]

Added 3 to the bomber list. Dropped 1.

[InvaderZim]

Come on Blue! We need more names on this list. As of this post Red has 19 bombers and 11 fighters committed. I imagine 71st and 20thBG will be fielding more pilots than what is currently listed. Blue currently has 5 fighter and 10 bombers committed. Right now on paper we are woefully outnumbered. Keep in mind, we need fighters for escort and to interdict Red bomber force.
If we get enough pilots, I suggest we try to field a hunter/destroyer group. We cant have our bomber escorts breaking off to respond to incoming Red bombers.

This should be a blast regardless of how it turns out. :)

DS

Agreed! What happened to all the fighter jocks looking to pad up the old score????????? This is the BIG oppertunity!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:devilish:

[JG27-Gaidin]

Come on Blue! We need more names on this list. As of this post Red has 19 bombers and 11 fighters committed. I imagine 71st and 20thBG will be fielding more pilots than what is currently listed. Blue currently has 5 fighter and 10 bombers committed. Right now on paper we are woefully outnumbered. Keep in mind, we need fighters for escort and to interdict Red bomber force.
If we get enough pilots, I suggest we try to field a hunter/destroyer group. We cant have our bomber escorts breaking off to respond to incoming Red bombers.

This should be a blast regardless of how it turns out. :)

DS

I feel guilty that I won't get there 'til 1900 eastern because of work.

Gaidin

[DoubleStandards]

I feel guilty that I won't get there 'til 1900 eastern because of work.

Gaidin

I don't think anyone will hold it against you. Real life comes first. :thumbsup:

[Logan]

:roflmao: We got Bier and Fraus! :devilish:
Cheers! :-P
http://i1024.photobucket.com/albums/y308/blackwolf_927/beer-domains_zpsa6050d2f.jpg

[InvaderZim]

JAAAAAAAAAA! LIKE THAT!:roflmao:

[InvaderZim]

Add 1 more fighter. Thanks JG25_Badger! Thanks Logan, Der Frau is workin!

[xvii-Hardegen]

Cheers! :-P
http://i1024.photobucket.com/albums/y308/blackwolf_927/beer-domains_zpsa6050d2f.jpg

It's really true that the beer...swells! :) Gosh if it swells! :)

[ATAG_NakedSquirrel]

How can you coordinate formation high altitude bombing with 88's and 111's doesn't that f-up the bomb loadouts?

[InvaderZim]

how can you coordinate formation high altitude bombing with 88's and 111's doesn't that f-up the bomb loadouts?

Nope! 2000Kg + is 2000Kg +.

[ATAG_Freya]

A disclaimer from the map maker:

This is an old version of "raiders" that was selected for this event. (It would be nice if we used 2.0 .....:D) There are some airfeild spawn points that may go buggy with too many players spawning in at one airfeild at the same time. Be prepared to use alternate airfields and set up a rally point in the case of a 'full' airfield producing such spawns. Hopefully, it won't be a problem, but make sure your team and your flight exercise some spawn-in discipline.

:salute:

PS. For future Bomber events, there is a dedicated map.

[InvaderZim]

How can you coordinate formation high altitude bombing with 88's and 111's doesn't that f-up the bomb loadouts?

Nope! 2000Kg + is 2000Kg +.


Come on over ad fly a sortie with us sometime. You will see how easy it is.

[InvaderZim]

A disclaimer from the map maker:

This is an old version of "raiders" that was selected for this event. (It would be nice if we used 2.0 .....:D) There are some airfeild spawn points that may go buggy with too many players spawning in at one airfeild at the same time. Be prepared to use alternate airfields and set up a rally point in the case of a 'full' airfield producing such spawns. Hopefully, it won't be a problem, but make sure your team and your flight exercise some spawn-in discipline.

:salute:

PS. For future Bomber events, there is a dedicated map.

Thanks Freya, I will add a final comment in the brief regarding spawn in.

Z

[JG4_sKylon]

10 - 12

S! Zim

[JAGER_Kugler]

i'll

Primary choice Bf 109
Secondary: stuka holy diver
Third choice: JU88

[CG_Justin]

I think I'm feeling "ill" so I don't think I'm going to work Saturday night *cough* *cough*:sick:

Sign me up for fighter escort, but please make it tentative. I work as a parts lead in the airline industry, so if something comes up overnight or during the day, there is pretty much no way I can get out of work.

I'm looking forward to my first event on the ATAG server.

I assume there will be people on TS who can help me with the ins outs of proper procedure for the event?

[Injerin]

I'll take a fighter if it is available

[Logan]

Wait, I have ATAG_Paranoid listed as a Red fighter? Did I miss a post about changing sides? I looked through the reds post but didn't see one.

[ATAG_Ezzie]

Hey Zim,

if there's still slots pls put me down for some 110 bomber destroyer action. I'll try and make the brief in case u want to use the 110 to go out and locate the bomber stream and report back re altitude etc.

i think I've done the time zone thing correctly - will be 0600 oz east coast time

Ezzie

[Goose]

JG4 comes with 15 Pilots

JG4_Goose

[xvii-Hardegen]

For European area players...
The event is this evening ( Saturday 11 April 2015 ) at 20:00 GMT. ( 22:00 CEST, 23:00 EEST, 21:00 BST ) ;)

[ATAG_NakedSquirrel]

Come on over ad fly a sortie with us sometime. You will see how easy it is.

Might do! I didn't realize both sides were doing bomber formations. I suppose it depends on how the sides look. I have some stick time in the He 111. I haven't really flown the Blennie or Ju 88 much.

[ATAG_Flare]

Wait, I have ATAG_Paranoid listed as a Red fighter? Did I miss a post about changing sides? I looked through the reds post but didn't see one.

Zim had a thread running in the private ATAG member forum section, Paranoid posted in there I think.

EDIT: Found it.


Ok put me down for a stuka- dave or pan can you pls spend 20 mins with me before Saturday for a bit of familiarisation?

ta

Flare

[Otherlank]

otherlank and Fox are in for fighter escort.

[InvaderZim]

I'll take a fighter if it is available

It's Available! Please take one Report to Dice or yotheguy.

[InvaderZim]

otherlank and Fox are in for fighter escort.

Report to yotheguy and thanks!

[InvaderZim]

JG4 comes with 15 Pilots

JG4_Goose

YAAAAAA Baby! Thanks to JG4!

ZIM

[InvaderZim]

Might do! I didn't realize both sides were doing bomber formations. I suppose it depends on how the sides look. I have some stick time in the He 111. I haven't really flown the Blennie or Ju 88 much.

Happy to have you. Please don't leave Blackwolf hanging tho.

[InvaderZim]

Hey Zim,

if there's still slots pls put me down for some 110 bomber destroyer action. I'll try and make the brief in case u want to use the 110 to go out and locate the bomber stream and report back re altitude etc.

i think I've done the time zone thing correctly - will be 0600 oz east coast time

Ezzie

Thanks EZZIE, Yes we need the Green flight. Talk to us in the brief.

Thanks,

Zim

[InvaderZim]

I think I'm feeling "ill" so I don't think I'm going to work Saturday night *cough* *cough*:sick:

Sign me up for fighter escort, but please make it tentative. I work as a parts lead in the airline industry, so if something comes up overnight or during the day, there is pretty much no way I can get out of work.

I'm looking forward to my first event on the ATAG server.

I assume there will be people on TS who can help me with the ins outs of proper procedure for the event?

Report to ATAG_DICE during check in.

Thanks!:salute:

[InvaderZim]

i'll

Primary choice Bf 109
Secondary: stuka holy diver
Third choice: JU88

Check in with Saipan in server 2 for assignment at game time. :salute:

[Gaudério]

Caça/Fighter

JÄGER_Gauder
BF109

[InvaderZim]

Wait, I have ATAG_Paranoid listed as a Red fighter? Did I miss a post about changing sides? I looked through the reds post but didn't see one.

Sorry, for the confusion, I will leave that up to him. It's getting hektic coming into game time. I had a power outage last nite and could not get to threads to respond until now.

Apologies.

Zim

[InvaderZim]

Caça/Fighter

JÄGER_Gauder
BF109

Check in with ATAG_Dice at game time. Server 2.


Thanks,

ZIM

[JG4_sKylon]

Any infos available about the map, targets, tactics ?

[PanTast]

It´s Freyas Winter map with Boulogne in english hand.

Raiders

Targets: bomb everything and shoot everyone :)

[ATAG_Snapper]

I'll be around as a Red fighter pilot if numbers permit, but will gladly bow out if Server 2 capacity is reached.:D

[ATAG_Freya]

Any infos available about the map, targets, tactics ?

JUST A REMINDER:

Be careful with spawning in. Be prepared to use more than one airbase for your flight and have a rally point. This map was never intended for large events, so be patient and please no one try to kill me when this is all over....:D

[Gaudério]

JÄGER and LBR squadron do not speak english. We are brazilians. We will fly together (LBR squadron and JAGER squadron). Perhaps ATAG_Lolsav can act as an interlocutor if he flying in the blue team. We understand just the basics in english, but enough to understand some instructions. As far as i understood, the takeoff will be at 18:00 Brasília time (Brazil time). We will be there and will give all necessary support to the bombers.

Sorry my english.

JÄGER_Gauder

[JAGER_Batz]

Caça/Fighter

JAGER_Batz
Bf-109

[Gaudério]

Server down.
I recorded the mission, but when i use the ATAG track editor, appears this message:


Working on track file...
Error, track not processed
Sorry. Not an ATAG Server Track

works only on tracks recorded on server 1.
Is there any way to get the external view in the server 2 track recorded ?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hVv9_PfMFgk

[InvaderZim]

JÄGER and LBR squadron do not speak english. We are brazilians. We will fly together (LBR squadron and JAGER squadron). Perhaps ATAG_Lolsav can act as an interlocutor if he flying in the blue team. We understand just the basics in english, but enough to understand some instructions. As far as i understood, the takeoff will be at 18:00 Brasília time (Brazil time). We will be there and will give all necessary support to the bombers.

Sorry my english.

JÄGER_Gauder

Thank you for participating, sorry the server didn't hold up. Please make a habit of showing up for the events. Every was going according to plan until the server crashed. You are welcome here!:thumbsup::)

[InvaderZim]

Server down.
I recorded the mission, but when i use the ATAG track editor, appears this message:


Working on track file...
Error, track not processed
Sorry. Not an ATAG Server Track

works only on tracks recorded on server 1.
Is there any way to get the external view in the server 2 track recorded ?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hVv9_PfMFgk

I have not seen this message before. Perhaps someone else has. Sorry.

[InvaderZim]

Server down.
I recorded the mission, but when i use the ATAG track editor, appears this message:


Working on track file...
Error, track not processed
Sorry. Not an ATAG Server Track

works only on tracks recorded on server 1.
Is there any way to get the external view in the server 2 track recorded ?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hVv9_PfMFgk

Thanks for the view. It would have been so good with out the stupid server crash!

[Logan]

Steam sucks! Do we retry a re-do in the next two weeks or what?

[ATAG_Flare]

I'd vote for next week or in three weeks since I'm away two weekends from now. But do the event when you choose. I would suggest something different. For future events, we should only have one side bombing, the other defending. I think your is a good idea because it means the teams don't have to concentrate on defending and attacking, and we'd need less players to have a good event. I nominate blue to have a chance at bombing next time since us Reds have beaten them the past two times. I can volunteer to help organise for Red side next event. What do you guys think?

Flare

[Logan]

Thats a good idea Flare, but the main point of this event is for both sides to bomb and have the fighters either stop us/them or not. Bombers do not get the glory in most games... but we roll the maps :) Limiting one side to fighters would not be a good idea, IMO. The Bomber fights is just that, a way for us mud movers to duke it out. A bomber furball is well.. like this.."Hey look I bombed your airfield".."Yeah well I bombed yours too, good luck landing there".

[InvaderZim]

Sure, I am asking some technical stuff to keep the server crashes from happening (if we even can). As soon as we have some answers we can make plans to make things run smoother and have a better experience next time out. A lot of our folks left after the 2nd server crash. Some of our folks went to your side to balance things out after people started leaving after the first server crash.

As far as different scenarios, we are working on that. We will see how all that works out in the future. We can have more than 1 scenario, eventually we will see how well they work out by the attendance numbers.

Right now it looks like it was so successful, we killed the server. :)

If its a time vs steam issue perhaps we can work around that.

There will be more to come. Much more!:)

[ATAG_Freya]

I hate to disagree, but I think alternating defense/offense is a better way to go. It simplifies things, and gives each side a chance to have large bomber formations, and each side a chance to rally their defense. Therefore it would be 2 events/month possibly. If it's decided that we do this, I already have a map and a system 90% complete for it. Also that way we can control plane types, airfeilds, targets, and even keep a cap aircraft types and on player numbers per side, so that it's not 70 vs 30 etc. This would require input from team leaders to choose airfeilds and plane types needed/wanted for each mission, prior to the event. It could be done such that the defending side doesn't know the targets, just the general area (ie: north half/south half/east/west of map, whatever, but always with a channel crossing of course). It may also help ease the mass confusion when players jump in 2 minutes before the mission start and ask what to do, not to mention perhaps ease some strain on the server. Just a thought... I'll happily go with what the majority of players would like to do!

:salute:

[Logan]

Hi Freya,
Thanks for all your hard work, map making and everything else you do. But I can say from just my point of view if its a blue bomber vs red fighter or red bomber vs blue fighter type of thing for one map, I will bow out for that one. I can fly a fighter but not so well and find no enjoyment in it. And don't want to be just another target if I can help it.
My thought was the bomber fights, if we were to do it as an event every two weeks or so would be more about the bombers and getting to target. Bombers job.. get to target. Fighters jobs, stop us or protect us. Either side bombs. I can't see changing to a red fighter only map or a blue fighter only map, thats not the point of this at all. Sorry, rant off :D

[ATAG_NakedSquirrel]

I remember some of the "Bomber night" missions in 1946 would have bombers on one side. They were pretty fun.

Sorry I couldn't make it to this one.

[Logan]

Was that the "Target for tonight" event?( I think..I forget in my old age)
In '46 everytime we had a bomber one side.. fighter the other side mission it ended in the bombers just being cannon fodder for the fighters. Not fun for us, so the bombers just stopped doing it.
I missed most of it tonight NakedSquirrel. I heard Red won again! I wish I could have been there. I'm cursing steam and my ISP!

[Chuck_Owl]

I do think the Fighter + Bomber vs Fighter + Bomber idea is more practical. If we do 2 events per month, it means that if one guy who flies only a red or only a blue bomber only gets to fly only ONCE per month (since the other event will feature bombers from the other side). I think bomber boys should get as much time in the air as possible. A big wing of 20 bombers or a big wing of 30 bombers doesn't make a whole lot of difference.

Just look at the way people responded to this event. The "competition" between both sides helps generate more interest. Having just one side go bombers feels like it's gonna be much more of a turkey shoot for fighters (and it usually is). Let's not forget that most people only fly one side or the other (especially in bombers).

Oh and yes, there should definitely be a password for the next event. There was a discussion about the time of event and the possible issues that could be run into, and as far as I know by reading on the forums I was bang on the money. :D

[ATAG_Freya]

Fair enough all, it was just a thought. (*crumples up hours of work and throws it in the trash) Also it seems like you guys are forgetting about fighter escorts...surely you don't think I mean to put ONLy bombers on the attacking side, that would be nuts... I'm down with whatever, this is a great event, and I'll add my thanks to the organizers!

:salute:

[9./JG52 Hans Gruber]

It would be really nice to have a working ground observer system for both sides.

[InvaderZim]

Fair enough all, it was just a thought. (*crumples up hours of work and throws it in the trash) Also it seems like you guys are forgetting about fighter escorts...surely you don't think I mean to put ONLy bombers on the attacking side, that would be nuts... I'm down with whatever, this is a great event, and I'll add my thanks to the organizers!

:salute:

Right, I was thinking of the scenario the way Freya is presenting it. The side that is bombing is not without escort. That would be crazy. As a bomber guy I like the idea of one massive target and trying to get a formation to a massive target. Seems to me to be the more realistic scenario.

Also as a normally dedicated bomber guy, I still like to hop in a fighter every now and then. Even if I ain't the top gun of clod, I still like to see if I can poke a couple of holes in a rad or 2 before I go down in flames.

Further, I would rather do it, see how it goes over and then make the decision as to axe it or not. We should let the entire community decide by playing it or not playing it rather than let a few opinions cause the effort to die on the table.

Personally I am for it because it adds more variety to the server and may appeal to both fighter and bomber types. As far as not participating if you don't like it, that is what the point is, If ya don't like it, don' fly it. After a while we will see how it pans out.

I gotta tell ya, Y'all aint gotta lot of map makers! It is time consuming and very few want to pursue it. There is discussions going on almost constantly in the background to provide you folks with maps and other features. This, by a very tiny few willing to do it! Every time you step on one of those few, it sends a message to those that lurk behind the scene the the effort is unappreciated and just not worth it!

Is that the message you want to send?

If you have a better idea start a map making thread and discuss what you want with those that provide it to you. It does no good for any one in this community to criticize the
efforts of these guys who make this possible. Keep doing that and there won't be any!

Better to start a thread and tell them what you want rather than crush their efforts to provide you and this community with more variety. Remember, many of the maps your flying on are coming from guys like Freya.

So there is MY rant!

ZIM

[InvaderZim]

I vote to UN-crumple the effort!!!!!!

[JG27-Gaidin]

I hate to disagree, but I think alternating defense/offense is a better way to go. It simplifies things, and gives each side a chance to have large bomber formations, and each side a chance to rally their defense. Therefore it would be 2 events/month possibly. If it's decided that we do this, I already have a map and a system 90% complete for it. Also that way we can control plane types, airfeilds, targets, and even keep a cap aircraft types and on player numbers per side, so that it's not 70 vs 30 etc. This would require input from team leaders to choose airfeilds and plane types needed/wanted for each mission, prior to the event. It could be done such that the defending side doesn't know the targets, just the general area (ie: north half/south half/east/west of map, whatever, but always with a channel crossing of course). It may also help ease the mass confusion when players jump in 2 minutes before the mission start and ask what to do, not to mention perhaps ease some strain on the server. Just a thought... I'll happily go with what the majority of players would like to do!

:salute:

Salute and Howdy All!

I like this idea, too! Would like to see this scenario one night.

Gaidin

[InvaderZim]

One last thing. When I heard this scenario, it reminded me of B-17 - The Mighty Eight Th, where one would wind their way over the channel push through flack and fighters to make a target. Not all would return, if any!

As difficult as it was, I liked it!

[JG27-Gaidin]

One last thing. When I heard this scenario, it reminded me of B-17 - The Mighty Eight Th, where one would wind their way over the channel push through flack and fighters to make a target. Not all would return, if any!

As difficult as it was, I liked it!

Logged a few hours in that game, too.


Gaidin

[Chuck_Owl]

Right, I was thinking of the scenario the way Freya is presenting it. The side that is bombing is not without escort. That would be crazy. As a bomber guy I like the idea of one massive target and trying to get a formation to a massive target. Seems to me to be the more realistic scenario.

Also as a normally dedicated bomber guy, I still like to hop in a fighter every now and then. Even if I ain't the top gun of clod, I still like to see if I can poke a couple of holes in a rad or 2 before I go down in flames.

Further, I would rather do it, see how it goes over and then make the decision as to axe it or not. We should let the entire community decide by playing it or not playing it rather than let a few opinions cause the effort to die on the table.

Personally I am for it because it adds more variety to the server and may appeal to both fighter and bomber types. As far as not participating if you don't like it, that is what the point is, If ya don't like it, don' fly it. After a while we will see how it pans out.

I gotta tell ya, Y'all aint gotta lot of map makers! It is time consuming and very few want to pursue it. There is discussions going on almost constantly in the background to provide you folks with maps and other features. This, by a very tiny few willing to do it! Every time you step on one of those few, it sends a message to those that lurk behind the scene the the effort is unappreciated and just not worth it!

Is that the message you want to send?

If you have a better idea start a map making thread and discuss what you want with those that provide it to you. It does no good for any one in this community to criticize the
efforts of these guys who make this possible. Keep doing that and there won't be any!

Better to start a thread and tell them what you want rather than crush their efforts to provide you and this community with more variety. Remember, many of the maps your flying on are coming from guys like Freya.

So there is MY rant!

ZIM

1) Please don't make me say things that I didn't say. I never said that Freya's concept had to be scrapped. I just said that the concept of bomber + escort vs intercept is IMPRACTICAL in the current format proposed.
2) For the kind of event you want to do, I stand by my argument. You say you want to involve EVERYONE in the community in these events. Ok, if one side bombs and the other flies fighters only, but what about the guys who want to fly bombers on the other side? They have to wait a whole bloody month, that's what I mean. The bomber event is a celebration of the bomber spirit: fighters should take a secondary role, and bombers from ALL sides should take part in the event. Maybe for you it's self-evident that anybody can fly either red or blue, but it just doesn't work that way. Some reds will not fly with blue under any circumstance and vice-versa... for a number of reasons that are better left to the imagination. Blue bombers might not realize it, but it's really not that long ago that the reds started having some sort of coordination between their bombers. The blue bombers have the choice between 3 bombers (BR20, He-111, Ju-88) + the Stuka and the Bf.110. The reds have the Blennie. If there is a bomber event occuring on a regular basis on ATAG, I don't want to be given the possibility to fly a Blennie once a month. Simple as that.
3) Remember when you did this big blue bomber wing? On the very first sortie, you guys got massacred because the intercept fighters were just waiting for you to dip a toe on the Channel. I saw how these kind of events turn out to be. I have also been on both the giving and the receiving end many times... and it is just not fun. It's not a question of numbers here. If you have a force of 30 fighters converging on, say, 50 bombers escorted by 20 fighters... I can guarantee you with complete certainty that the 30 fighters are gonna have a field day and that the majority of the bombers will be shot down in a matter of minutes the very second they pop up on the radar.
4) You can picture a bomber event like you want it to be, but please allow me to picture it how I want it as well without resorting to accusations as if I didn't fully appreciate the efforts of the mission makers. I don't need to be given a lecture on the importance of mission-making. I worked on some missions for DCS and I helped some mission-makers test theirs as well.
5) I organized bomber events before as well. I wasn't taking wild guesses when I told you how I thought last Saturday's event would go. And (unfortunately) as it turned out I was kind of bang on the money. I experienced these issues myself, so I'm not telling you what I don't like your ideas or Freya's for that matter... I'm just stating facts about what works, what could work and what doesn't work... so you folks don't waste your valuable time and effort.

[ATAG_Freya]

It would be really nice to have a working ground observer system for both sides.

I wanted to do that for another mission I was working on some time ago. Any idea on the scripting for that? I never could work out how to give blue any sort of radar functionality, or how to bend the script to include it with red radar...(just inquiring for the sake of learning - not necesarily for these missions..). Anyone with such info - feel free to PM me!

:salute:


PS - Re; the Bombers event - don't sweat it guys, we'll get it sorted eventually. Things have to be made to incorporate smooth, un-interupted, enjoyable gameplay. IMHO, that is most important, whichever way we decide to do it. I think we can all agree on that!

[♣_Spiritus_♣]

Whats the difference between this and every other map if both sides have targets? Nothing. I figured the point of these was to funnel the type of game play and make it a special event, which means its less predictable and features a virtually new map each time.

This is why I prefer the one side on offense, the other on defense, then flip that for the next event. This also should encourage people to learn other aircraft types and systems. If you only fly bombers then switch sides and learn the other sides planes. An hour in a new aircraft isn't much time away from the your normal aircraft and you might just end up liking it. Thats how I got into the Blenny and my next is the 88.

With a wing of 20 bombers plus 20 escorts going up against 40 defenders or whatever seems like it would be great, plus the defense wouldn't know exactly where the target was. Maybe have it set that the mission is only 1 hour, giving basically one try at destroying the target. Then you could perhaps switch the sides the same night, so the next hour of game play the other side is on the offensive with one try at the target.

[LuseKofte]

I meet up in GMT +1 and I saw no one in the server. found no one in TS. We have switched to summertime in Norway , might I have misunderstood the time?
Anyway I am in as a bomber pilot next time if it happens within 2 and a half week

[Chuck_Owl]

Whats the difference between this and every other map if both sides have targets? Nothing.

That's the entire point. Originally, the goal of the event was simply to get people to fly bombers in a coordinated way. We didn't ask for new missions, new objectives... The idea was to make it simple and accessible. Personally, I don't care what I have to bomb... just as long as I get to do it with other bombers. ATAG pub server has typically 5-10 bombers per side tops and the rest is made up of fighters doing their own thing. Flipping the map was hard enough as it was, but that's the only thing we needed to be happy.


This also should encourage people to learn other aircraft types and systems. If you only fly bombers then switch sides and learn the other sides planes. An hour in a new aircraft isn't much time away from the your normal aircraft and you might just end up liking it.

With all due respect, you know as well as I do that it's not as simple as that. Most people fly only one of two airframes tops. You can't just "learn" an aircraft in an hour, and like i said many people fly exclusively one side. Such discussions already happened on the why and how in these forums, and they ended up nasty.


With a wing of 20 bombers plus 20 escorts going up against 40 defenders or whatever seems like it would be great, plus the defense wouldn't know exactly where the target was. Maybe have it set that the mission is only 1 hour, giving basically one try at destroying the target. Then you could perhaps switch the sides the same night, so the next hour of game play the other side is on the offensive with one try at the target.

The minute a bomber pops up on the gaydar radar, you can bet that these 40 fighters will mow down the bombers in a matter of minutes with ratios like these. Nobody wants a Turkey shoot.

[ATAG_Dave]

Despite the technical issues yesterday I still had fun so thanks to all involved for organising it :salute:

I flew a stuka and was diving on my [classfified information] target just as the first server crash happened. Then i was told blue outnumbered red vastly so upon server re start i jumped in a spit climbed to 25 angels over [classified] airfield and the server crashed. so i went to server 1. jumped in a spit climbed to 10 angels and the server crashed.....:doh:

so I gave server 2 another go - blue were outnumbered so back into the stuka and along with Pantast, Steve, Mindle and Kev in a mix of 110s and 87s we sunk 3 ships bombed two bridges and an artillery target and shot some spits down. I was diving on the 1 remaining ship (someone else got another) as the dreaded 'Red Win' message came up. We had fun...

Im sure whatever is served up next time will be an improvement (Rome wasnt built in a day) and count me in for it if there is a space.

FWIW My thoughts are
- make sure the team number maximums are equal
- force a maximum number of specific aircraft types on each team so that it remains a predominantly bomber focused event, but enabling fighter escort
- password protect the server
- remove custom skins
- remember its a game and to have fun :thumbsup:

[Logan]

Chuck said it best but I'll add to it.

This is why I prefer the one side on offense, the other on defense, then flip that for the next event. This also should encourage people to learn other aircraft types and systems. If you only fly bombers then switch sides and learn the other sides planes. An hour in a new aircraft isn't much time away from the your normal aircraft and you might just end up liking it. Thats how I got into the Blenny and my next is the 88.

I fly Red, I don't want to fly Blue at all. I have no interest in that. Just as I have no interest in flying fighters. Its not my cup of tea. So if a event forces me to fly outside of my Red bomber, I'll pass. Or if the bombers are stacked against a side of fighters only...I'll pass again. Thats one turkey shoot I don't want to be in. Nothing about or against the map makers at all. The maps that are up are fine as they are. Just getting to fly with other bomber pilots who you may not get to work with during the course of a mission/ squad night and being able to coordinate tactics and learn from one or another is what it is all about.