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Flack_Bait
Apr-10-2015, 14:12
I'm still new, but I have come to discover that I am a terrible combat pilot. I can never seem to close on any aircraft, much less try to shoot them. I can't even get close enough to tell if it's friendly or hostile.

I'm 100% sure I'm doing something wrong on the engine management and/or flying technique, but I don't know what. I spent 30 min flying around in a dogfight on the ATAG server the other day without managing to get near another plane. No one even tried to shoot me down! Eventually I got hit by some flack, so at least the computer was giving me some love.

I tried playing single player to get the hang of things, but I can't keep up with the rest of my flight.

I'm flying spits and hurricanes, sub 6000 feet altitude, with 100% throttle, coarse pitch, rad at 60%, and boost cutout on (extra boost)

Anyone willing to meet me online some time and teach me how to fly/shoot something?

ATAG_Dave
Apr-10-2015, 14:22
Have you tried getting onto TS? That's a good way to get info on where the enemy is and also people will be happy to wing up with you.

If you see me or ATAG_Pantast online flying red come and say hi and we'll happily fly with you

As for your settings, assuming you are flying the spit mk1a(100) or the rotol Hurricane you shouldn't be flying with coarse pitch all the time - that setting is good for a general cruise or when diving but not combat.

A good set and forget setting once airborne in those two planes at the altitude you are flying would be Throttle 100% (6lb boost), Prop Pitch 85% (2850 rpm) Radiator 75%. Alternatively try 110% Throttle (Boost cut out override - 12lb boost), 80 to 85% prop pitch (2750 to 2850 rpm) and 100% radiator. Either will give you good speed and be suitable for combat. As ever if you do lots of hard climbs or slow manouvering you will have to keep an eye on your temps and adjust accordingly

Good luck :salute:

PS - Its always best to be higher than your enemy whenever possible. 6000ft is pretty low altitude. Try to take of from a rear base, take the time to climb up to 20k+ feet before you get to the likely combat areas. Predator is more fun than being prey..... :devilish:

Flack_Bait
Apr-10-2015, 14:32
Thanks for the quick reply. I'll adjust my settings and see if I can catch anything. I have been using TS, but my general lack of skill has made it a bit difficult getting into places where I can get tips.

The other day I was still learning take off/landing and kept crashing spits all over the airfield. Someone accused me (jokingly, I hope) of being an undercover German bomber! In their defense, I'm pretty sure I had done more damage to the field than the ACTUAL Germans...

ATAG_Dave
Apr-10-2015, 14:45
Thanks for the quick reply. I'll adjust my settings and see if I can catch anything. I have been using TS, but my general lack of skill has made it a bit difficult getting into places where I can get tips.

The other day I was still learning take off/landing and kept crashing spits all over the airfield. Someone accused me (jokingly, I hope) of being an undercover German bomber! In their defense, I'm pretty sure I had done more damage to the field than the ACTUAL Germans...

No worries - keep at it and don't lose heart. Everyone here was new once. CloD has a very steep learning curve so finding it a real challenge is completely normal. There are no short cuts im afraid but your effort will be rewarded - your first clean kill will be something you remember for a long long time.

Do some research here on the forum into a good loadout and convergence setting for your chosen planes - its a topic that everyone has their own opinion on and its a case of finding a set up that works for you. In general terms in those planes set your loadout up in each of the 8 guns with a mix of Dewilde, AP, Ball and tracers if you like tracers. A decent starting point for your convergence would be to set it to 200 yards horizontal and 200 yards vertical. This means that your bullets from all 8 guns will all converge on a point 200 yards dead ahead. Having done that each time you get in the plane adjust your gunsight to 200 yards with the upper ring and 32feet with the lower ring. The horizontal gap between the while lines that will then be seen in your gunsight will exactly match a 109 (wingspan 32ft) who is 200 yards in front of your plane (assuming you can find one who is conveniently flying along nice and level in front of you of course lol). Its not perfect but it will gradually give you a sense of when the 109 is in range and so when to fire and importantly when not to....

When setting convergence in the game menu bear in mind the numbers you enter are in metres - so for 200yards you need to set it to 183 metres. The gunsight works in yards.

EDIT: When setting loadouts up do it when online not in single player otherwise the game wont save your settings

:salute:

Otyg
Apr-10-2015, 14:48
Whats your timezone mate? I can jump in a spit and fly wing for you.
I'll be on Sunday evening euro-time if the kids allows...
Date?

ATAG_Colander
Apr-10-2015, 14:52
I have come to discover that I am a terrible combat pilot.

Me too! :)

RAF74_Buzzsaw
Apr-10-2015, 15:23
I'm flying spits and hurricanes, sub 6000 feet altitude, with 100% throttle, coarse pitch, rad at 60%, and boost cutout on (extra boost)


It sounds like you are flying a two pitch Hurricane or Spitfire... which are very difficult to succeed in, especially at lower altitudes which, when you are in coarse pitch, deliver poor performance. (but don't use fine pitch)

I would recommend you start in a Spit IIA, with constant speed prop. Set your rpms to 2850, set throttle to 100%, rad to 75%. Use those as your standard settings. When you are in combat, you can go to +12 boost, and in extreme situations, go to 3000 rpm and 100% radiator.

Go onto teamspeak and ask for help, there are many out there who will volunteer their time and fly with you.

Don't forget to check the TF Wiki page for Pilot Manuals:

http://www.theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/wiki/doku.php?id=start

sw1ive
Apr-10-2015, 15:25
no1 use Team Speak 3

no2 never fly alone (wait-fly over friendly airfield, and find to folow a friendly plane) (wingman is your life.. no wingman, no life)

no3 in chat press Tab - 7 - 1 and read the text (bomber 330 degrees 25 Km)

no4 set on joystick keys zoom in and zoom out -or- field of view 30 and field of view 90

no5 fly at 3km alt from Calay city to Dover city (if you do not find enemy, so, enemy will find you)

no6 ask everythink and every time in ATAG forum (this forum will be ever beside of you)

no7 if you are beginer pilot just think. I have to stay alive, I do not need to join in dogfights every time.

have a nice day in ATAG server

C . U. sw1ive...

ATAG_Ezzie
Apr-10-2015, 18:44
I would recommend the BF110. Easy to fly and comes with cool leather flying gear which the fräuleins really dig. And you have company every time you fly and he talks only when required so its easy on the ears.

Not so easy in combat though...... ( but very rewarding when you work out its strengths nd limitations)

Ezzie

ATAG_Lewis
Apr-10-2015, 18:54
no4 set on joystick keys zoom in and zoom out -or- field of view 30 and field of view 90



+1

This is the one that will help you spot what the contacts are....

Flack_Bait
Apr-10-2015, 18:58
How do I get credit for landing? I flew a couple runs today and the server stats only has me landing once... I landed at the air field and taxied off the runway, but this field didn't have any hangers etc, so I just parked next to the AA

ATAG_Ezzie
Apr-10-2015, 19:05
I think u might have to land at a spawn able airfield to get the landing counted. I've only heard this from others and haven't tested it (but will do so in response to another thread stated by Hardegen) so it might not be correct.

Did u shut down the aircraft before exiting or before using alt-f2?

Eziie

ATAG_Dave
Apr-10-2015, 19:08
you should get a message in the chat window in-game along the lines of "Flack_Bait landed in friendly territory" if you landed at a valid airfield.

Flack_Bait
Apr-10-2015, 19:59
I definitely didn't get a landing notification, but I was at the field I spawned at. Plane was off. I'm sure I'm missing something that I'll figure out eventually :)

ATAG_Dave
Apr-10-2015, 20:11
sounds odd. but there are a few glitched here and there - all part of the fun. The stats here are not always 100% reliable either. You know you landed and thats what counts :thumbsup:

ATAG_Endless
Apr-11-2015, 21:32
Don't worry about the AI in single player the AI always has faster planes than you I think it has something to do with the way it manages it's engine

thee_oddball
Apr-12-2015, 18:24
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjsM77NPpfc

sw1ive
Apr-12-2015, 20:03
LINK
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8vBp97auu0&list=PL469062277AEA72BF

this is a link with 16 videos...

turtorial videos... for the Basic Flight Maneuvers... how to do this... text with guide

it was very helpfull for me, time ago...

GloriousRuse
Apr-12-2015, 23:06
Been a bit since I got behind the stick, but here's my top tips:

1. Gunnery. You suck at it, because everyone sucks at it at first, aside from a few freaks of nature. How to not suck comes in two varieties:

A. Shoot only when you'er sure you're close enough. If you don't know, you're not. One day close enough will be farther than it is now.

B. Practice. Practicing gunnery by flying ATAG is like practicing shooting on goal by playing full length games. Take 5 minutes before you log on to fly a quick mission where you have the advantage, and you'll be getting twice as much trigger time in one tenth of the flight time.

2. Beware the urge to flounce about the sky when not in a fight. Turning costs E. This is fine when locked in with another plane (not really, you should try to avoid it, but that can't always be helped). If you turn this way and that to snap at every thing you see, you'll never catch those planes doing 300MPH.

3. Altitude goes a long way. Really.

4. TS.

busdriver
Apr-14-2015, 13:13
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjsM77NPpfc

That is a 1960 training film emphasizing the "fighting wing" tactics used successfully in Korea, and then much to the USAF's chagrin, was proven to be a very poor technique over North Vietnam. The point being the wingman can only fly formation and cannot effectively scan for threats. And the Leader gives ZERO visual mutual support to his wingman. It was only after the Vietnam war that the USAF tacitly acknowledged the deficiencies with "fighting wing," and embraced the superior tactical formations employed by the USN and the Luftwaffe.

Bottom line...watch the video for entertainment value ONLY!

jester_
Apr-16-2015, 04:55
How do I get credit for landing? I flew a couple runs today and the server stats only has me landing once... I landed at the air field and taxied off the runway, but this field didn't have any hangers etc, so I just parked next to the AA

I can fight, but I can't land ;)

I fly the 109, if you ever want to practice or play with your setup to get a feel for things, send me a pm and we'll do some brawling :D

ATAG_NakedSquirrel
Apr-19-2015, 05:14
That is a 1960 training film emphasizing the "fighting wing" tactics used successfully in Korea, and then much to the USAF's chagrin, was proven to be a very poor technique over North Vietnam. The point being the wingman can only fly formation and cannot effectively scan for threats. And the Leader gives ZERO visual mutual support to his wingman. It was only after the Vietnam war that the USAF tacitly acknowledged the deficiencies with "fighting wing," and embraced the superior tactical formations employed by the USN and the Luftwaffe.

Bottom line...watch the video for entertainment value ONLY!


Yeah, air combat was a lost art by the 1960s. Of all the videos out there, I think this USN video is much better at describing air tactics, and it's actually applicable in game.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_iW1T3yg80

Mutt
May-08-2015, 21:41
Here's something else

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCFMX5z-ed4

I found some of the info about offensive and defensive turning useful and explained why I end up in certain (bad) positions frequently. Be warned there's talk about missiles, but I think it's worth enduring for the odd useful eureka moments. On top of which there's the hilarious independent lifeform attached to the host's upper lip, pervy jumpsuit and dreadful lip sync - if you think CLOD can be laggy...!

I've realised some of my problem is being unable to see the enemy clearly enough, not only to identify, but to follow subtle (and obvious) attitude changes. I've had people coming at me head on when I've thought I was on their 6. The spray of tracer that gives it away in the end is of little consolation.

busdriver
May-08-2015, 22:08
On top of which there's the hilarious independent lifeform attached to the host's upper lip, pervy jumpsuit and dreadful lip sync - if you think CLOD can be laggy...!

That's Pete Bonani...he was a very sharp F-16 IP. I'm not sure what his callsign was, but I'd guess it was something associated with a porn star because of his moustache. In the space of a couple months in 1986 he twice managed to save his jet after a large bird had the nerve to fly into the intake. "Pervy jumpsuit?" We called it a "bag." As in, Pete's wearing a bag or, the IG Team is making us have an Open Ranks inspection on Saturday morning...in our bags (this really happened).

7./JG26_SMOKEJUMPER
May-08-2015, 22:38
Been a bit since I got behind the stick, but here's my top tips:

1. Gunnery. You suck at it, because everyone sucks at it at first, aside from a few freaks of nature. How to not suck comes in two varieties:

A. Shoot only when you'er sure you're close enough. If you don't know, you're not. One day close enough will be farther than it is now.

B. Practice. Practicing gunnery by flying ATAG is like practicing shooting on goal by playing full length games. Take 5 minutes before you log on to fly a quick mission where you have the advantage, and you'll be getting twice as much trigger time in one tenth of the flight time.

2. Beware the urge to flounce about the sky when not in a fight. Turning costs E. This is fine when locked in with another plane (not really, you should try to avoid it, but that can't always be helped). If you turn this way and that to snap at every thing you see, you'll never catch those planes doing 300MPH.

3. Altitude goes a long way. Really.

4. TS.


This post is all win. As usual fellas great to see everyone being kind and welcoming to the new fella.


Flak Bait, welcome. Great group here.

PASSION_KILLER87
May-09-2015, 08:03
It helped me to view the elevator as speed control and the throttle as altitude control. Height is the key, you can trade it for speed and speed for height. Stay above the Bosch and you will have the advantage. Don't think that pushing the throttle and prop pitch past the gate will see you race up behind the enemy it won't. This is the mistake I made when when I started. But pushing the nose down with a height advantage will see you zoom past. No advice on gunnery as would struggle to hit England from more than a thousand feet up lol.

Otyg
May-09-2015, 09:57
No advice on gunnery as would struggle to hit England from more than a thousand feet up lol.

A well trimmed plane is a plane hitting stuff.
Get as close as you feel comfortable with and then get even closer before opening fire.
Shoot earlier in turns than you think you should.
also a good convergence will make a difference.
Ammo is free your stats are not! :devilish:

Practice in quick mission, there is a mission where you start high 6 on a bandit just set 1 spit and 1 109 and do the dive over and over and over.

Good luck! :salute:

thee_oddball
May-24-2015, 14:32
That is a 1960 training film emphasizing the "fighting wing" tactics used successfully in Korea, and then much to the USAF's chagrin, was proven to be a very poor technique over North Vietnam. The point being the wingman can only fly formation and cannot effectively scan for threats. And the Leader gives ZERO visual mutual support to his wingman. It was only after the Vietnam war that the USAF tacitly acknowledged the deficiencies with "fighting wing," and embraced the superior tactical formations employed by the USN and the Luftwaffe.

Bottom line...watch the video for entertainment value ONLY!

learn something new everyday, thnx for the info.