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69th_Turn
Apr-13-2015, 15:36
The intention of this thread is to have a place for feedback and suggestions about how to improve the next Bomber Challenge event. Some posts are being scattered around, so I thought it would be a good idea to have them all in one place.

The spirit is not to criticize, but to offer, based on experience, what might work better for next time to increase the success and enjoyment for everyone.

To get started, and in no particular order, here's what I've seen so far:


make sure the team number maximums are equal. Instead of a 100 total player cap, make it 50 Blues and 50 Reds. It's up to each side to fill their quota. If they can't, then too bad. I think we'd rather see only 80 people playing 50 vs. 30 than 100 people in a lopsided 70 vs. 30 event.
force a maximum number of specific aircraft types on each team so that it remains a predominantly bomber focused event, but enabling fighter escort
Password protect the server. Folks really look forward to these special events and it would be nice to respect those who are committed enough to sign up in advance.
remove custom skins
assembly time at T-30 minutes instead of T-15. 15 minutes is barely enough time to get TS sorted out by 50 excited people, let alone organize flights and attack schedules.
set time/day if week to minimize Steam issues, yet compromise somewhat for best attendance too.

InvaderZim
Apr-13-2015, 20:54
Turn,

These are the kind of things we are currently discussing. I will monitor this thread for outside suggestions. We will announce when we have it sorted out. Thank you for you suggestions. An open thread is a great place for ideas that we can sort through. I assure you ATAG takes these issues seriously and we are working hard to reach a resolution before the next event. :smash:


The intention of this thread is to have a place for feedback and suggestions about how to improve the next Bomber Challenge event. Some posts are being scattered around, so I thought it would be a good idea to have them all in one place.

The spirit is not to criticize, but to offer, based on experience, what might work better for next time to increase the success and enjoyment for everyone.

To get started, and in no particular order, here's what I've seen so far:


make sure the team number maximums are equal. Instead of a 100 total player cap, make it 50 Blues and 50 Reds. It's up to each side to fill their quota. If they can't, then too bad. I think we'd rather see only 80 people playing 50 vs. 30 than 100 people in a lopsided 70 vs. 30 event.
force a maximum number of specific aircraft types on each team so that it remains a predominantly bomber focused event, but enabling fighter escort
Password protect the server. Folks really look forward to these special events and it would be nice to respect those who are committed enough to sign up in advance.
remove custom skins
assembly time at T-30 minutes instead of T-15. 15 minutes is barely enough time to get TS sorted out by 50 excited people, let alone organize flights and attack schedules.
set time/day if week to minimize Steam issues, yet compromise somewhat for best attendance too.

3./JG51_Heiden
Apr-13-2015, 21:40
Yup. Map was a total sausage fest. More 109s on the map than bombers and escorts combined. Also, there were blue players flying bombers as well, like a counter-bomber night. If the reds want a bomber night, they deserve to get it. Allocate 2/3 of the available slots to them. They barely had enough players to man 10 bombers all said and done.

III./ZG76_Saipan
Apr-13-2015, 22:56
Yup. Map was a total sausage fest. More 109s on the map than bombers and escorts combined. Also, there were blue players flying bombers as well, like a counter-bomber night. If the reds want a bomber night, they deserve to get it. Allocate 2/3 of the available slots to them. They barely had enough players to man 10 bombers all said and done.

i stuck around for the first 2 crashes....red was doing very well....almost 2 targets down.

LuseKofte
Apr-14-2015, 07:47
Well I failed to be there , It should have been 21:00 at my local time and I was there. But I must have got the time wrong. Sorry, hope to be there next time
@@i personally do not mind that much if mission fails, to me it is the team work and formation flying

69th_Turn
Apr-30-2015, 17:08
ATAG is internally working to improve things for the next challenge. How about us on the outside? Do we have any positive and constructive suggestions we can offer? This is the place for them.

I'm really looking forward to the next event! How about you? It's been 19 days. I'm having withdrawals!

ATAG_Snapper
Apr-30-2015, 17:43
ATAG is internally working to improve things for the next challenge. How about us on the outside? Do we have any positive and constructive suggestions we can offer? This is the place for them.

I'm really looking forward to the next event! How about you? It's been 19 days. I'm having withdrawals!

You nailed it, Turn! :salute:

Just working a few kinks out. Stay tuned! :)

69th_Turn
May-27-2015, 12:05
Some additional thoughts inspired by my last two bomber challenges:


study the target areas before the event. In the air! Things look very different in the air compared to a 2D map. Get on ATAG, or LeadFarm, or a Single Player mission.
learn more planes and bombers. If you currently only fly the Ju88, learn the Blenheim too. If you only fly Blennies today, sign-up for one of the upcoming Ju88 or Br20 classes (soon to be announced in Flight School)!
master Teamspeak. Learn about whisper lists and practice using them (before the campaign).
Lead, Follow, or Get Out of the Way. To me, this means: Let the flight leader lead. If he's brave enough to volunteer for this roll, support him in it and give him the chance to do so. Let him make mistakes, even. That's how we learn. The most important thing is not necessarily being right. Also, second guessing the flight leader creates chaos and discourages leadership practice. [NOTE: a polite reminder he accidentally chose a Tiger Moth instead of Blenheim would surely be appreciated, though :)
Participate! These events should all be 'waiting list only', IMO. So much fun! If you weren't at Stuka Storm...why not?

ATAG_Flare
May-28-2015, 01:11
Some additional thoughts inspired by my last two bomber challenges:


master Teamspeak. Learn about whisper lists and practice using them (before the campaign).
Lead, Follow, or Get Out of the Way. To me, this means: Let the flight leader lead. If he's brave enough to volunteer for this roll, support him in it and give him the chance to do so. Let him make mistakes, even. That's how we learn. The most important thing is not necessarily being right.


These two pieces I can not stress more. Teamspeak is a key to coordination between flights, and it's very important for flight leads to be able to communicate without the rest of the flight getting in the way or hearing unnecessary stuff. In my opinion, ALL FLIGHT LEADS SHOULD HAVE WHISPER WITH EVERY OTHER FLIGHT LEAD. This means that every time lead A hits his whisper key, leader B and C will BOTH hear him. In Stuka Storm whenever I talked, Rasty and Biggs could hear me, but whenever one of them talked to me, the other guy couldn't hear, which caused confusion. The other important Teamspeak thing to remember is BREVITY. Whenever you hear the flight lead's voice, that means stop talking and listen. It's hard for a flight leader to direct his own squad and communicate with two other squads at the same time. Keep chatter to a minimum. I don't want to seem like that S/L from "Battle of Britain" in command of the polish squadron, but it's actually a lot of work to communicate effectively with three different flights.

Turn, your second point is equally important. This isn't the real RAF or Luftwaffe, but listen to your lead's orders. Suggestions can be okay if you think something's totally wrong, but 95% of the time the lead knows (or pretends to know) what he is doing. Make sure you don't think it's okay to take control of a flight because it causes confusion, and that causes more enemies to get through and/or more of us to be shot down.

TL; DR: Go easy on the flight leads, stay quiet in TS if you can, and stick to the lead's plan.

Flare

S! Turn - your bomber school initiative is a great idea - good luck!

busdriver
Jun-01-2015, 01:35
Some very good points. I'm not a multi-engine guy...yet.

But it might help if one of you bomber gurus put together a brief PDF covering the mission basics. Get the Amazing Chuck Owl to polish it for distribution. I'm not talking about his excellent guide or other's gouge on how to fly a particular airplane. Just some basics of assembling a formation (how to give wingmen turning room and a power advantage for the rejoin), basic power settings, climbout airpseed, enroute planned altitude and airspeed. Establish this gouge as "Standard" meaning something Flight Leads and potential Flight Leads can practice and wingmen can study ahead of time. Flight Leaders can practice the standards climbing to altitude (getting an idea how long it takes to form up a flight of 8+) before coasting out. Perhaps the "Standards" would state a rule of thumb on how long it takes to get to cruise altitude with the formation assembled. I'm not suggesting RL attention to detail, but some simple gouge to help potential Flight Leads in assembling a combat force rather than feeling like they're herding cats.

Give guys that want to be Flight Leads, navigation missions they can practice offline (or allow access to ATAG Server 2 for practice) to hone their skill getting airborne from the home field, flying a lazy climbing orbit (simulating the flight/squadron rejoining) and navigating to a real/potential target at mission airspeed. Access to Server #2 would let guys practice formation flying and bombing. The key IMO is to allow potential Flight Leads practice getting to a real target, take care of some jitters come Bomber Night.

A simple digital Mission Package for the bomber pilots. An hour or two prior to mission email bomber pilots a JPEG (or screenshot or URL) of the mission map with a suggested route of flight. Give Flight Leads early access so they can practice the navigation if they want. This map would have a circle over the home field, with a line connecting to a circled prominent turn point (say coasting out feet wet) and a line to a circled prominent turn point going feet dry and finally a line into the target (which has a triangle around it). Complete that map with a basic egress plan. Include in the package screenshots of the target taken from altitude (simulating pre-strike reconnaissance photos).

As far as guys not letting the Flight Lead do his or her thing...well perhaps ask them to respawn at another bomber base and let them go their merry way. Not to p*ss them off, but simply to allow them the freedom to play. It might sound like it defeats the purpose of Bomber Night, but letting them go lone wolf or small package might get them to observe (hear) others having fun. And tactically (hopefully) they might get ahead of the strike force and soak up the enemy fighters.
:devilish:

Scenario builders could make a catalogue (portfolio?) of mission packages. Save them in the Download section to let potential bomber pilots have access. I'm willing to help, but lack the skills to make pretty mission packages. I can give some RL pointers and draw mission maps that somebody could polish.

Flare makes some excellent points about TeamSpeak technique.

69th_Turn
Jul-07-2015, 02:49
Here's another suggestion:

Attend one of the many bomber classes offered on the ATAG Flight School. InvaderZim and others offer several each month.

July sign-up schedule HERE (http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17842), for example.

Become one of them fancy bomber guys flying up front in the formation who know how to operate the bombsite ;-)


Suggestion #2:

If you're a bomber guy living in the UK or OZ, volunteer to join our Bomber school as an instructor! Lots of guys who live near you would love to join the fun, but just need a helping hand up. And, think of it this way...eventually these same guys will then be flying with you!

Gh0st
Jul-16-2015, 19:25
Limit the number of available skins to a standard set of skins to visually identify squads.
Promote team work by encouraging mix squads with other squads and loners.
Have everyone sign on blood that the mission comes first!?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

Cybermat47
Jul-16-2015, 23:14
remove custom skins

What's wrong with custom skins?

69th_Turn
Jul-17-2015, 01:08
What's wrong with custom skins?

I'm not sure who suggested that (wasn't I).

I think the idea surfaced after the March event where people were experiencing stutters at the airfield where there were 20+ planes assembling (??)

Maybe somebody else can chime in as to the rationale...

Gh0st
Jul-17-2015, 10:16
This suggestion is about game play, organization and cooperation.
Distinct skins for each flight group.
Examples
Flight 1 - pink nose
Flight 2- red nose
Flight 3 - green nose
Flight 4 custom skin

If flight 1 is assigned high cover and it us deep in the trees; then they are referred to invictus for proper corrective measures.

Skin performance is a different topic but it is important.


Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

Combat Wombat
Jul-17-2015, 18:50
:goofy pink nose !! good lord man Your talking spitfires here :) wheres my service weapon :grrr:

Cybermat47
Jul-17-2015, 19:25
This suggestion is about game play, organization and cooperation.
Distinct skins for each flight group.
Examples
Flight 1 - pink nose
Flight 2- red nose
Flight 3 - green nose
Flight 4 custom skin


Good idea, but I'd change it to:

Flight 1 - green nose
Flight 2 - white nose
Flight 3 - red nose
Flight 4 - yellow nose

So that it's based on the Luftwaffe's squadron identification.

Gh0st
Jul-18-2015, 11:27
:)