Fighting the 109

[Cybermat47]

Hey guys, I'm hoping you can help me out. Whenever I go up in a Spit or Hurri, 109s almost always get the better of me. Even if they don't shoot me down, they can usually stay far away enough to avoid my fire, thanks to their superior speed. They never want to get into turning fights. How do I start taking them down?. And don't worry, I know to target vital areas with the .303 rounds.

[ATAG_((dB))]

Serve them with their own medicine, stay high boom and zoom them. Stay fast and extend. If you have one above you stay in his low six and don't let your speed drop too low and stall keep it around 160 MPH unless you're sure to have some good hit's on him. Lot's of them too often dive away, the very good one will extract every once of E and loop back on you or stay in the fight, this is why you need to keep your speed, if he does loop back on you turn toward him or split S or a combination of both. Make sure if you follow him in the dive don't follow him to the deck unless you are sure to kill him, stay above so you can welcome him when he climb back.

It is rare to have an easy kill, so if you feel or think it's gonna be a easy shot, there's a big chance your getting bag and drag

o7

[DoubleStandards]

Hey guys, I'm hoping you can help me out. Whenever I go up in a Spit or Hurri, 109s almost always get the better of me. Even if they don't shoot me down, they can usually stay far away enough to avoid my fire, thanks to their superior speed. They never want to get into turning fights. How do I start taking them down?. And don't worry, I know to target vital areas with the .303 rounds.

Just look for me, should be an easy kill for ya! :stunned:

In all seriousness though, dB is speaking truth, BUT don't fall into the trap of thinking because a 109 dives away that he is not a good pilot. Some of the best pilots will only press a fight if they know they can win it. This includes in-game and real life fighter aces.

DS

[RAF74_Buzzsaw]

Unless you are fighting a noobie... which there are not many left... you will have a tough time vs a 109 one on one as they will keep their altitude and run when they are in trouble.

Best thing to do is what the 109's do themselves... fight in teams... get a wingman or better yet, work with two pairs.

First friendly is out front, and when into the fight is low... second friendly arrives high after the 109 commits himself and therefore has the advantage and the surprise... this is Poryshkin's "Pendulum Flight" tactic.

If you are solo, keep your altitude and try to bounce lower 109's, when attacked by higher aircraft, drag the 109 low to your best fighting altitude.... which for the Spit I and Hurri I is approx. 5000 ft. If the 109 follows you down there, he is vulnerable to late arriving friendlies.

[ATAG_Endless]

most times I get shot down by spits is from being bounced from higher alt . Most 109 pilots are looking down not up they don't expect spits to be higher if you think you are high enough go higher

there will be times where you wont see much but your survivability will be greatly increased . When I fly my 109 solo I never enter the channel less than 5000 m ill takeoff spiral climb over friendly territory and then proceed to England

so many times I have bounced spits climbing to alt low and slow mid channel
If you catch a 109 co alt and relatively same speed you will find the 109 will most likely already be in a defensive mood

and practice practice practice this is key don't give up if you get shot down start again. Also record your sorties and replay them after the fights to see where you went wrong

[Continu0]

Guys, I think Cybermat is offliner... so the Situation might be a little different...

[ATAG_Dave]

Guys, I think Cybermat is offliner... so the Situation might be a little different...

he has 7 sorties in stats :salute:

[ATAG_Lewis]

I often fly alone...so I have devised a way that works as a lone wolf pretty much through trial and error and desperation but it seems to work ok..

First...THERE IS NO SUBSTITUTE FOR SITUATION AWARENESS....Knowing where every contact is around you means you get to react to it at the same time or importantly before your enemy does...That's a massive advantage in CLOD...You get to pick when to run or chase...

Given that your post asks about not getting shot by the enemy then you need tobe able to defend before you can kill...Sometimes the whole map seems like you are on the backfoot and running but if you stick with it and fly defensively opportunities will come your way...its just important that you don't get despondent and concentrate on defensive flying first...then take your kills as and when they offer themselves to you...

So densive flying.... l always get alt first and then keep an eye on the horizon and above...I fly high enough that I can make it home in a shallow dive...Anything below that is the danger area as a 109 will catch you in the dive so you need a head start...If a 109 or pair come for you then fly home in wide side to side sweeps while looking at your 6 constantly...thats what I do and works pretty well...I've learned to fly home looking backwards...lol...yeah seriously..all the way...drag them down low and in your home territory if you get desperate...ALWAYS know which home airstrip is the busiest because that's where you need to dive toward when you get chased...and if you do get hit make sure they have worked for it and you have dragged them low and home where they don't want to be...

Learn how to evade diving 109s...Its all timing....Once you know you are being stalked dive to get speed whilst looking at your opponent on your 6..then as he comes in pull hard back on the stick and as he reaches his solution do a slight corkscrew..This will throw his aim totally and you get to live for another 20 seconds..you need to be able to do this whilst looking at him....so head for home again and wash and repeat...until you get home or a team mate helps you out...Once you have mastered this you will see aircraft dive on you 2 or 3 times and then go looking for an easier target...or they get frustrated and make a mistake..and then you may get your chance.

To get the kills I look for 109s that have committed to other lower E/A and use speed to catch them slow at the top of their climb...You need to practice this and soon you will know when it will work or not before you have even started your move...I will always check the surrounding horizon before commiting this move...The threat is ALWAYS more important than the kill so if you see a high contact or co-alt contact then check it out before you commit to the kill...and if it turns out to be enemy forget your kill and go defensive again...

Also don't follow the enemy to the deck if you can help it...vent them and then move on....most of the time they try to go home and either get ambushed by lower friendlies or they ditch..so don't be in a rush to kill all the time..we don't have the advantage of cannons so a vent is a good result...If you are lucky you'll get a PK or a burner but I personally can't aim for anything like that in a dogfight..I don't know how folks do...just to get a solution is key for me whilst they are trying to evade...try to hit a gnats testicle at 100 yrds on a moving target..forget it!...just get guns on the aircraft..anywhere on it

Flying alone is very risky...and I have to fly like a frightened rabbit 90% of the time...but it can be done...and you can clock up the kills too...

I don't know how other folks fly but this works for me...like tonight...I haven't flown for a few months and had a good night on my own tonight...I got 13.48 with no deaths and I got hit twice during the session which I managed to land...both by aircraft I didn't see...So even with my defensive style I still don't see everything...and also depends what mood I'm in...or how much whisky I've had..hehe


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtCoLqV4z-g

[Cybermat47]

he has 7 sorties in stats :salute:

Well, most of the time I'm an offliner, I only really play online for bomber nights.

But still, I can easily adapt a lot of this stuff to singleplayer, and it'll come in handy if I fly a Spit or Hurri in MP.

[ATAG_Lewis]

Man!...Get yourself in the ATAG MP server..There's nothing like it...Fighting real players...Its difficult but is very rewarding when you get it right...and its mission based..You don't need to be on TS as I pointed out in my post above...Fly it like single player with the added bonus that the enemy are unpredictable a lot of the time..Give it a try..you might like it.!

[69th_SunDog]

I only fly online, but this is what I've learned in the last couple months on ATAG's server....

-Be active on Teamspeak, have a wingman if at all possible. [or 2 or 5 or 12]
-Climb, climb, and climb some more. [altitude is life]
-I habitually check my position, and try to keep an idea of where North is, then check six, then instruments, and repeart.... [I have a touchscreen tablet with the map loaded] If you spot enemy or get bounced, tell everyone about it; plane type & numbers, altitude, course, etc.
-Use all available info to fix the enemies position; tab-7-1, tab-4-1, teamspeak, flak, etc....
-Be aware of the enemies advantages, their A/C's capabilities. [Spitfire's out-turn 109's well, Stukas not so much]

When in contact with a 109 with no help available;
-if he is experienced, he will boom and zoom; when he booms, he is generally easy to dodge because of his high speed. When he zooms, climb with him, under him. This restricts his manouvering room, and gets you close where you out-turn him. Every time he zooms you might be able to climb another 1000+ ft.
If he gets bored he may try turning with you, or present you with a target. If he is all business, he will continue climbing, booming and zooming; but the longer you live, the better chance of him making a mistake.
With help available;
-drag and bag him.

[ATAG_Lewis]

I still say TS is a great benefit and help but you don't need it to play the ATAG server and be competitive....I rarely fly with a wingman or on TS.....and a lot of folks who fly single player fly it because they don't want to use TS or fly in a group...Lets face it single players fly on their own for a reason and its not all because they enjoy the missions...It may be that they fly in a busy household or don't want to wake kids...could be any reason...but I would just like to make it clear that multiplayer doesn't have to be a social activity as such...You can still fly missions and not fly with anyone and get a great enjoyment out of it...My only communication a lot of the time is the chat bar..

[69th_SunDog]

I still say TS is a great benefit and help but you don't need it to play the ATAG server and be competitive....I rarely fly with a wingman or on TS.....and a lot of folks who fly single player fly it because they don't want to use TS or fly in a group...Lets face it single players fly on their own for a reason and its not all because they enjoy the missions...It may be that they fly in a busy household or don't want to wake kids...could be any reason...but I would just like to make it clear that multiplayer doesn't have to be a social activity as such...You can still fly missions and not fly with anyone and get a great enjoyment out of it...My only communication a lot of the time is the chat bar..

Good point; I prefer to fly with TS but its not a must have.
Chat bar works fine, if you care to use it.
I do fly without chatting sometimes, but still usually have teamspeak on just for the enemy call outs.

[Biggs]

Out of all these excellent tips I have to say what's helped me the most is situational awareness and communication. These two things go hand in hand and and increase not only your combat effectiveness but the rest of your teams'.

Communicating your possision and what you see when you see it helps piece together a larger picture of the battle space for everyone to benifit from. It allows you to make the most efficient use of your aircraft in a given situation. Relaying and receiving enemy positions can save you so much time when it comes to getting into a position for attacking. Without it you are left to stay away and act more cautious for longer periods of time... more time climbing and wondering where the enemy is less time setting up ambushes and sending 109s down in flames.

Another benifit to becoming a good communicator is you naturally become a good wingman. Being able to give a warning out to a fellow pilot and save him from a bounce is almost as satisfying as getting a kill! I know ive received my fair share of calls to BREAK!!.. and I'm extremely grateful for each one.

Master these things and your score will go up without question.

[ATAG_Snapper]

Wow! Some excellent advice here! I can only add some minor points. I fly both lone wolf (mostly) and with others using TS. After a full day at work I'm frequently "talked out" and just want to fly quietly on my own AND KILL SOMETHING!!!! :devilish:

To that end:

1) Never spawn in at a coastal airfield. Unless you're feeling very lucky. :D

2) Never climb to altitude in unfriendly skies. A corollary to (1) actually. I always spawn well inland and climb to 20+ angels before I'm even near the battle area. Just as the real BoB pilots did, I trim for climb and check my email for the 15 minutes (or so) that it takes.

3) Make a conscious note where the sun is located and where it should be when you're running for home screaming like a little girl with two 109's potting away at you. Bad time to set your compass Direction Finder and Gyro Compass completely disoriented and cannon tracer zipping past your canopy.

4) As others have said, keep an eye behind you. I estimate that I spend 80+% of my flight time looking behind me.

5) Never fly in a straight line. Fly in extended S-curves to keep a better eye on your otherwise-blind spot behind and beneath you.

6) If a 109 seems to be tantalisingly just out of range of your guns, immediately kick rudder and "throw everything into the corner of the cockpit". Guaran-damn-teed his mate is lining you up from behind.

:)