Bombsights, anybody tested them? Plus some other thoughs/observations on bombers

[Blackdog_kt]

Hey everybody. Seeing as we got new methods in the scripts to place objectives for level bombing, as well as the Ju88 now having a working directional gyro, i was wondering if they fixed the bombsights too.

I'll probably hop on the server tonight, so maybe we can do a test run or two if any of the other bomber pilots are around. In the meantime though, if anyone has tested the sights it would be good to know and save some time. Otherwise i'll probably just spawn, fly inland to be free of enemy fighters and do a low altitude run against an empty field in France to test it out.

Another thing i'm curious about is if the symbology on the sight is also corrected. What should happen is that adjusting alt and airspeed (possibly the angle/distance too) moves that carat marker around (the one on the "inside" of the scope circle). That is the calculated release point based on the parameters we input to the sight. Then, once engaging automation and the sight starts tracking the target, there is another carat (on the outside of the first one) that starts moving downwards. The idea is that when this "tracking" marker reaches the inner one, the bombs automatically release. You'll ask, what would we need it for if the sight drops correctly? Well, if the symbology is correct it lets you know when the bomb release is imminent. In other words, we need this functionality if we want to drop in formation: if the leader doesn't know when the bombs are about to drop, he can't accurately command his flight to release.

I assume that when all is corrected (if it isn't yet) that's the way we will probably be level bombing, a leader flying via autopilot through the bombsight and the rest flying on his wing and releasing on command. To take this further, the leader can also communicate his bombsight alt/speed settings to the rest of the flight. If you have the same alt/speed setting in the sight, you can take advantage of the bomb interval settings. These are not in seconds, but in meters between bomb impacts, meaning they are calculated by the bombsight based on the alt/speed you input. So, even if dropping manually on the lead bomber's command, you could input the same alt/speed settings as him and then the bombsight will correctly calculate the bomb intervals. This lets us drop in a suitable pattern depending on the target.

For example, against a rail yard or factory building we would probably use a tight spacing between bombs (no more than 5 meters or so), while against an airfield we could use a wider one. This could be done by dividing the airfield's approximate length on the axis we are approaching it from, by the number of bombs we carry. Then we could set that number as the bomb interval in meters, aim at one edge of the airfield and watch the bombs crater the whole thing all the way to the other edge :thumbsup:

I have also noticed a small change and a bug with the latest beta. The bug might be because i'm running slightly outdated drivers for my Ati, when looking through the scope of the Lofte (in "gunsight view") i don't get the black surrounding margin anynore. Instead, i get a semi-transparent one with clouds showing through it. Also, the water disappears and you can see the sand on the sea floor :D
In any case, it's still possible to see where the coast ends and where the targets are, because terra firma displays properly.

As for the change, it is now possible to adjust the sight with automation enabled. Previously, if you wanted to make corrections to your aim you would have to turn off automation, place the crosshairs on the target and re-engage it. With the latest beta patch it is possible to move the crosshairs without turning off automation. This makes it easier to fine tune your aim and calibrate your ground speed while the sight is tracking the target. You can immediately see the effects of our inputs and focus on getting the sight to track a point on the ground (by giving it the correct alt/airspeed values), then simply recenter the crosshairs on the target.

Finally, another question. What's the deal with wind drift? Le's say i'm drifting to the right of the target. Should i move the crosshairs left to keep them placed on the target, or should i move them right and maneuver the bomber left (with the autopilot) to realign with the target?


Thanks in advance, hope i'll see some of the regular bomber guys online tonight so we can further test things out.
If we get workable bombers and the new triggers in the mission script, we're one step closer to having a proper BoB scenario to fly on :thumbsup:

[Blackdog_kt]

I did a couple of tests tonight but i can't nail it down. I spawned in and took off from the 88 base, turned south to be away from the action and decided to bomb some arbitrary target in the French countryside.

I took the delayed fuses and deliberately stayed low, to minimize the IAS/TAS difference and be able to observe the bomb impacts from the rear facing gondola of the 88.
I was doing at most 330km/h at 1100m. Well, in order for the sight to track the aim point, i had to increase the bombsight speed upwards of 400km/h, which is quite excessive for the altitude i was flying at. TAS should be about 350-360km/h for my IAS and altitude, plus i know we certainly don't have 100km/h winds in the server missions, so 400km/h for ground speed is certainly pushing it :D
Naturally, the sight released early to account for the high speed value and the bombs impacted short of the target.

The good things thus far:
1) The autopilot in the 88 definitely works and the aircraft is a lot easier and more pleasant to fly than the 111. I was circling around today over the armory target (in G7 i think?) trying to find it, doing all my flying via autopilot. It's possible to make steeper turns with AP on in the 88 as well.

2) I don't get any more low-res textures in the cockpit, making it very easy to monitor my instruments without having to mouse over for the tooltips.

The not so good:
1) I don't know if anyone else is getting this, but it's the graphics bug i described in the previous post when looking through the bombsight. I discovered that all shallow water is replaced with sandbar/bank textures when looking through the sight. Going out to sea it displays fine just like pre-patch. Flying over land however, the water near the coast is replaced by sand and the rivers are replaced by lines of sandy textures, like the ones you would normally see displayed on the river banks. This makes navigation kind of difficult when looking through the sight.

2) The R22 (wings level) autopilot mode has the same problem in both the 111 and the 88. Apparently, the engines don't produce enough thrust to keep you from losing altitude when you engage it. It mostly stabilises after a while, but even so there is still a descent rate of about 0.5 m/sec at high power settings. This makes it hard for other people to formate on you because you have to be pushing nearly full power to maintain altitude through the bomb run.

I will probably slap together some rudimentary mission in the FMB today and do some more testing. Maybe i should try what we did in the previous patch, converting speed to mph and using that in the sight? Any ideas welcome :thumbsup:

[Warhound]

2) I don't get any more low-res textures in the cockpit, making it very easy to monitor my instruments without having to mouse over for the tooltips.

Have you tried dialling in one notch of flaps to help the autopilot keep height? Not realistic, but it was usefull in 1946 to keep some bombers from losing alt while on a bombingrun.

[III./ZG76_Keller]

I've done a few runs with the HE-111 and I still haven't nailed down the correct settings. It seems that I can do ok at around 3000m, but as I get higher my bombs fall shorter and shorter from the crosshair. The last 111 mission I flew I had Colander as an escort the entire way but we both had launcher crashes approx 15 seconds before bomb release. This is getting very frustrating.

[MajorBorris]

"If we get workable bombers and the new triggers in the mission script, we're one step closer to having a proper BoB scenario to fly on "

That is progress!

I cant wait to see what is done with the static targets!

:)

[Doc]

I think I have noticed something.

I am away from my rig to test it but...

I think if you open the bomb bay doors on the 88 and then drop the door start to close then come open again causing an extra long delay before the bombs drop.

I have been in the 88 ventral gunner and watched it and dropped without opening doors. The doors auto open now. Never seen that before.

Anyone seen this before this Beta?

Doc

[Blackdog_kt]

When testing the sights i also took a seat in the ventral gunner position to watch the impacts. I can confirm that once you release, the bomb bay doors start retracting.

This could be an issue if you plan on making multiple runs, dropping separately from externals, forward and rear bay. On the other hand, if they also open by themselves it won't cause a problem.
I also saw another player (can't remember who, i don't have any TS notifier type software installed yet to see who's talking :D) mistakenly release his entire payload as we were flying in formation, in salvo mode no less. I can confirm that his bomb bay doors were closed but the bombs released just fine.

What i don't know is if it works the same with series release and if it causes any accuracy problems. I mean, if the bombs are pushing the doors open, there could be a slight delay introduced, making it worthwhile to open them ahead of time manually.

Maybe they used both ways. Manual opening for level bombing and serial release (in order not to disrupt the intended pattern), automatic opening for salvo release in dive bombing. Mind you, i'm just going by in-game observations and reasonable assumptions here, i don't have any official document to draw extra information from.