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View Full Version : Convergens set to 75 Meter in Onlinegames



Little_D
Jul-24-2012, 09:31
Hi gents,

i hope this is not old!!!!

i had most of the time the problem, that i was closer than my convergenssettings, when i shot.
So i read the forums up and down and testet some things out and now my convergens is set to:

75Meters, horisontal and vertical. So now i have the right convergens when i am close and the deflectionshots are easyer now, more bullets hit in the right spot, even this damn 20mm :) .

go to:

1C SoftClub/il-2 sturmovik cliffs of dover/ and open the user.config. there you will finde the planes you fly, and there you can set your convergens at the distance you want/need.

on forums they say its only for offline playing, but works for online too.

Would be interessting what happens, when the spit/hurri aces get there 8 guns close together at a very close distanse, so they have full gunpower at very close distance and how mutch damage they do when they change there convergens to less than that what the game normaly allows.


Never touch your settings in the game or you need to set it in the user.config again

regards

Little_D

ATAG_Snapper
Jul-24-2012, 09:40
Interesting, Little_D. I alway figured the minimum convergence was set by the sim so that the inner guns wouldn't shoot within the propeller's arc.

Dutch
Jul-24-2012, 10:13
Interesting, Little_D. I alway figured the minimum convergence was set by the sim so that the inner guns wouldn't shoot within the propeller's arc.

Well it should be. But experience has shown me that the props in game are similar to the trees, i.e. no collision thingy modelled, so you could have convergence set within the props arc.

I don't agree with it at all though, and I'd have to draw a diagram to do the maths. I'm pretty sure that some pilots used a lot less than 150yds though. I'll look up some of those nasty 'anecdotes'. :)

Little_D
Jul-24-2012, 11:05
Hi Snapper, Hi Dutch,

normaly yes, like Dutch said, but when i look at the picture of both planes Spit/109 for me the inner guns are still out of the prop and 75 meter in front of the nose is maby some mm to turn the guns, i think you will never erver can turn the guns into the prop because of the space in the wing.
I read in some books, that some of the german aces had set there convergance to 75 Meter even in a Fw190 with 4 20mm guns.

regards

little_D

ATAG_Headshot
Jul-24-2012, 11:09
I remember reading somewhere a while back that at least the spits with the B wing and cannons I believe it was couldn't get the cannon convergence closer then 180m, not because of the prop arc but because of how the guns sat in the wings and not having enough space to turn them in more.

Dutch
Jul-24-2012, 11:24
Yep, the chaps are correct. Just looking at plan views of the Spit, it'd be physically impossible to toe the guns in to the extent that bullets hit the prop.

Question is; what was the minimum convergence possible?

Strangely, when I googled 'spitfire minimum gun convergence', all the links bar a couple were to ubi, 1C or 'The Air Tactical Assault Group' - whoever they are. :D

Little_D
Jul-24-2012, 13:54
What???!!!!!

the mighty RAF was not able to fire throu the propeller? I cant belive it. I mean they dit it back in WWI and the german dit it too, and in WWII. So i hope the RAF can do it also.

Space in the wings is the biggest problem i think. but still it must be possible to put the convergens from spits also to a minimum of maby 75 - 80 meters. i mean if you need to fire over 150 meters it becomes to pray and spray. we have no realy windturbulence, propturbulence, winddrift etc. in the game, so in real you need to get to this distance some how to get the enemy down.

There are 3 sentence i remamber, read them in a trainingsbook for fighter from the german air force:

1. If you think, your are close enough for the shot, go closer.
2. If you think, your have the enough for the shot, take a little bit more leed.
3. If you think, your six is clear, you are dead. You have to know it.

Bomber different story.

regards

Little_D

ATAG_Colander
Jul-24-2012, 15:19
1. If you think, your are close enough for the shot, go closer.

If you think, your are close enough for the shot is too late, the spit pilot with the cockpit open heard you coming 30 seconds ago.
:PP

Blackdog_kt
Jul-24-2012, 22:11
I remember reading somewhere a while back that at least the spits with the B wing and cannons I believe it was couldn't get the cannon convergence closer then 180m, not because of the prop arc but because of how the guns sat in the wings and not having enough space to turn them in more.

Exactly.

First of all, most wing guns were not synchronised. If a gun is supposed to fire outside the prop you don't install sync gear because it slows down the rate of fire. I think the only exception was the inboard cannons in the 190. If i'm not mistaken, these were already shooting through the prop and were synchronised, maybe that's why they could set their convergence so low. The outside guns were half way along the wing and wouldn't fire through the prop disc, assuming they even had space to turn that far inwards.

Even if you can set a short convergence without hitting the prop, there's a rectangular box in the wings housing your guns. This box has limited dimensions and limits their amount of travel.

No offence to anybody, but i think it shouldn't be possible and it's a bit "gaming the game" to me. It should be a bug report probably: the game should check the settings before spawning and if you have anything below the minimum possible convergence in the .ini files, it should return it to the shortest allowable convergence, whatever that is.

Little_D
Jul-25-2012, 09:31
Hi gents,

you are right Blackdog_kt, there is not enough space in the wing to set the guns in the wing to shot through the prob.
But to bring them at 70 - 80 meters together. As far i know and read from books there where german aces or very good pilots that put the convergens into this distance to get the max. hitpower at close distance. Me 109 E-series as no sync gear, but was not needed, guns are far enough away from the prop. The Me 109 F-series up to the K-series had sync gear installed to shot through the prob.
And as you said right the inner MG 151/20 and the MG 17 from the FW190 where installed with sync gear.

The limit is the game and it is like in old 1946, 100 Meters is the END, but it the same like the spit is not fast enough, turn is to ... , 109 Rudder, Speed etc. they dont get it right. So i can fix it without cheating, because they did it in WWII and put there convergens in this distance. And normaly the game must give us this option.
About Spits, Hurri`s`, Mustang`s etc. i cant say a word, but i dont think the Mustang or late Spit`s where not able to put the convergens less 100 meters.

Some other thing, for me the guns dont have enough power, both red and blue. Do you see what for power the guns have offline?
Even the 8 MG`s Snowballcanon have lots of power when hitting in convergens. We need online the same damage as offline for all guns.
Because online we all fight till the last and die. Start again and so on. Bad Pilots more often, good Pilots less on both sides. More damage and we have to bail earlyer, return home earlyer, when get hit in water, oil and engin, etc., to get it little bit more Fuell Real.

In WWII all Pilots had the same intention when getting badly hit ore in importent systems, lets get out of this plane as fastes as possible.

@ATAG_Colander


If you think, your are close enough for the shot is too late, the spit pilot with the cockpit open heard you coming 30 seconds ago. :PP my answer :

Flying with open canopy, (without a penalty, limit of the game) and use this limit as an advantage to heare the enemy to get an advantage this is cheating.
But this is not the normal thing on ATAG most dont do it and i get enough kills without my enemy heare or see me. :PP :)

So if sombody needs this advantage to win a fight or to survive a flight he maby go back to online-computer-flyingscool.

So a BIG SALUT to all close canopy flyers on the red side. :thumbsup: :ilike: :salute:

regards

ATAG_Snapper
Jul-25-2012, 12:22
Oh yeah? Well just wait 'til the RAF fighters get their proper FM's. The LW fighters and bombers will be swept from the British skies like a DEVINE WIND!!!


Oh, wait a minute....wrong metaphor. Sorry about that! Carry on, everyone! Nothing to see here!

(Maybe it's something about sunny uplands I was thinking about, or some such.....)

Robo.
Jul-25-2012, 16:02
Snapper LOLz.

Good find Little_D. :thumbsup:

To be honest I am quite happy with the guns, maybe the DMs could be better but it's still being worked on I guess, at least I hope it's some kind of WIP. :recon: Same with FMs - radiator drag has been implemented already, maybe they'll fix the canopy drag, too. I personally have no warning of 109s, I can sometimes hear the supercharger whine when they are in front of me or when we pass in head-on (canopy onep or closed, main difference is the wind sound to me, which is very loud and I can't hear people swearing on the TS). But I know some guys can hear them from miles away... not cheating really, just gaming the game like flying through the trees or keeping on flying after your fuel tank exploded. I don't do that because it's silly.

Now Snapper me old pal, how was the trick with adding silver bullets into your gun belt? :whacky:

9./JG52 Jamz Dackel
Jul-25-2012, 16:34
Snapper has redesigned said pea shooterz :P

Robo.
Jul-26-2012, 16:27
So a BIG SALUT to all close canopy flyers on the red side. :thumbsup: :ilike: :salute:

Oh and I almost forgot - equally big salut to all Blue pilots having something else than 100% Minengeschoss in their cannon belts :goofy

ATAG_Snapper
Jul-27-2012, 07:34
Snapper has redesigned said pea shooterz :P

Hahaha! I cracked up when I saw that! Hey, sometimes I feel like I've got EIGHT of those things in my Spittie! :D

9./JG52 Jamz Dackel
Jul-27-2012, 07:48
:)
Hahaha! I cracked up when I saw that! Hey, sometimes I feel like I've got EIGHT of those things in my Spittie! :D

Little_D
Jul-27-2012, 14:52
Hi Robo,

you mean something like this?

M-Geschoss
M-Geschoss
Brand
Brandspreng
.
.
.
.


regards

ATAG_Colander
Jul-27-2012, 16:09
Hey, some times I fly the E1, however, those spits some times take 3 E4's to go down! :)

9./JG52 Jamz Dackel
Jul-27-2012, 16:44
Wait until we get the F....this is the leaked image of nose cannon

886

Jugdriver
Aug-04-2012, 10:53
So a BIG SALUT to all close canopy flyers on the red side. :thumbsup: :ilike: :salute:

regards

When the 109 does not have firewall, boost it and forget about it engine management then I will start closing my canopy.

JD
AKA_MattE

9./JG52 Jamz Dackel
Aug-04-2012, 12:05
When the 109 does not have firewall, boost it and forget about it engine management then I will start closing my canopy.

JD
AKA_MattE

oh dear...

ATAG_Snapper
Aug-04-2012, 12:34
Heh, before things start getting nasty here, let's be realistic. On the ATAG server there are no rules (other than no swearing, abuse of another player(s), deliberately shooting at someone on the same team). IMHO, if the Server or the MG devs don't provide limits on gameplay, including engine performance, cockpit setup, ammo loadouts, terrain setup (ie trees), then all's fair. It's war, after all. To expect anyone to deliberately handicap themselves for "realism sake" when fully knowing he faces opponents that are fully exploiting advantages that are NOT based on realism -- that's asking a bit much, IMHO.

Please take these concerns to the devs to accurately model these currently inaccurate gameplay aspects:

ie. non-collision trees, RAF "sonar", LW "WEP", pooched FM's (both sides), etc. etc. etc.

Catseye
Aug-04-2012, 12:35
Hi gents,

my answer :

Flying with open canopy, (without a penalty, limit of the game) and use this limit as an advantage to heare the enemy to get an advantage this is cheating.
But this is not the normal thing on ATAG most dont do it and i get enough kills without my enemy heare or see me. :PP :)

So if sombody needs this advantage to win a fight or to survive a flight he maby go back to online-computer-flyingscool.

So a BIG SALUT to all close canopy flyers on the red side. :thumbsup: :ilike: :salute:

regards

I take great exception to your use of the word cheating! I really hope that it is a language barrier in this case. I for one DO NOT CHEAT!! Unlike others tweaking power settings who shall not be named but haven't been seen on the sim in a while. That is cheating. Flying with the canopy open is taking advantage of a situation that is IN THE SIM and do-able. No code has been changed. For me, it helps me for vision reasons not for listening reasons. I look to my six continually. The folks here on ATAG know me for how I fly.

Also, your comments about conversion settings are out of line in some respects regarding distance. You need to do more reading on the allied side before offering your opinion.

You've managed to tick me off lad!!

Doc
Aug-04-2012, 16:12
I take great exception to your use of the word cheating! I really hope that it is a language barrier in this case. I for one DO NOT CHEAT!! Unlike others tweaking power settings who shall not be named but haven't been seen on the sim in a while. That is cheating. Flying with the canopy open is taking advantage of a situation that is IN THE SIM and do-able. No code has been changed. For me, it helps me for vision reasons not for listening reasons. I look to my six continually. The folks here on ATAG know me for how I fly.

Also, your comments about conversion settings are out of line in some respects regarding distance. You need to do more reading on the allied side before offering your opinion.

You've managed to tick me off lad!!

He's telling the truth or he can't hear. I slid in behind him last night without him even knowing it and shot him up. S! Cats:PP

ATAG_Snapper
Aug-04-2012, 16:27
Some dastardly 109 pilots have taken to throttling back their engines when diving for the kill, making their approach virtually silent. Terribly unsporting of them, I must say! :flying:

Doc
Aug-05-2012, 23:34
Some dastardly 109 pilots have taken to throttling back their engines when diving for the kill, making their approach virtually silent. Terribly unsporting of them, I must say! :flying:

:PP :devilish:

[FFCW]Urizen
Aug-06-2012, 14:11
Hi Robo,

you mean something like this?

M-Geschoss
M-Geschoss
Brand
Brandspreng
.
.
.
.


regards

Nope he meant something like this:

M-Geschoss
M-Geschoss
M-Geschoss
ad infinitum