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ATAG_Snapper
Aug-06-2012, 19:03
IvanK just posted this over at 1C:

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showpost.php?p=452221&postcount=7



Spit IIA Oil cooling/temp rise versus Pilots notes limits is currently porked in this patch. This came with the New (correct) true +9Lbs Boost availability with Full throttle. Note the Boost gauge scale only goes to +8.

Has been reported directly to Devs with all documentation sent. Suggested as High Priority fix.

Oil Temp rise is just way to quick on Spit IIA that results in engine damage. Oil Temp indication is Inlet Temp. Spit MKIIA Oil temp Combat limit is 5 mins at 105C, Normal Climb limit is 90C. A Climb all the way to 30,000ft at +9/2850RPM should be possible without any real issues with Oil Temp rise. Attached JPG of RAE Climb Oil cooling test trials illustrates this. Devs have this info.

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e215/zulu64/Spit2Oiltemponclimb.jpg

Hurri info attached here as well. As you can see Hurris is not even a remote issue with Oil Temp rise. I guess a better Oil cooler I guess coupled with being in the radiator bath so rad flap area has a greater influence in cooling.

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e215/zulu64/Hurri1oiltempclb.jpg

Tip for the moment. Forget the MKIIA. Use the MKIA You can easily climb +6/2850 Rad open all the way to 14,000ft with Oil temp only just getting up to 95C.
Note for the record IRL Spit IA Climb limit Oil temp is meant to be 90C at +6/2600 with a 5min combat limit of 95C.

(On a side note there was an issue with Classic IL2 in that the cockpit gauges showed Inlet temp whilst the FM/EM used outlet temp so conversion was required to get usable cockpit indications when the cooling routine was re done in ver 4.10. I am not sure if this is a similar situation in COD)

Dutch
Aug-06-2012, 19:32
Hmmmmmm.................

I feel a gathering of momentum on a few things.:devilish:

ATAG_Snapper
Aug-06-2012, 19:47
As you noted in another thread over at 1C....IvanK actually PLAYS the game. It shows, eh?

Dutch
Aug-06-2012, 19:49
:)

Dutch
Aug-06-2012, 20:09
As you noted in another thread over at 1C....IvanK actually PLAYS the game. It shows, eh?

I was flying online a couple of nights ago when IvanK was flying a 109. I happened to mention in chat that the negative 'G' cutout behaviour in the Brit planes seemed improved in the new patch. Ivan asked me to repeat, so I said; 'It's less sensitive, i.e. better'.

I could almost see him scribbling notes down from the other side of the world. Nice moment. :)

ATAG_Snapper
Aug-06-2012, 20:17
And you didn't have to provide reams of documents to back up your statement! :)

The small adjustment in neg g sensitivity is much appreciated. The 109 can still bunt into a dive as an advantage (as it should be able to), but at least our engines aren't cutting out repeatedly during very mild maneuvres it seems.

ATAG_Deacon
Aug-06-2012, 21:52
And you didn't have to provide reams of documents to back up your statement! :)

The small adjustment in neg g sensitivity is much appreciated. The 109 can still bunt into a dive as an advantage (as it should be able to), but at least our engines aren't cutting out repeatedly during very mild maneuvres it seems.

No, however if you listen on comms, almost all Reds are having fits with the engine temps...makes for extremely cautious flying.

[FFCW]Urizen
Aug-06-2012, 22:53
the funny thing with engine temps is, that one plane stays cool, even if you abuse the engine and the next plane is hotter than the sun.
Houston, we have a problem.

Dutch
Aug-06-2012, 23:10
Hmmph.

The only problems I've had have been in combat when I've forgotten to keep an eye on temps and I've shoved the throttle against the firewall and then forgotten about it. Of course the engine's going to blow in these circumstances.

This patch feels real to me so far. It'd be nice to know if the Blue chaps have these kind of difficulties though.

[FFCW]Urizen
Aug-06-2012, 23:21
i just pretend the planeґs been used, works for me :geek:

ATAG_Snapper
Aug-07-2012, 00:06
Well, I tried climbing the Ia 100 octane at 2850/6 lbs boost.....blew the engine at 11,000 feet. It was a long glide back.


On another sortie I lifted off from Manston and saw flak over Ramsgate -- a 109 strafing the Beaufighters. I snuck up behind him undetected as he began to head south. My convergence was set at 180 yds and I estimated him to be about 250 yds in front. Try as I might, I couldn't match his climb -- blew my engine going all out to get within firing range. Once more, turned away for a long glide back....the 109 carried on completely unaware of the easy target dropping away behind him......


We need faster Spitfires, gentlemen.

Dutch
Aug-07-2012, 09:26
Well, I tried climbing the Ia at 2850/6 lbs boost.....blew the engine at 11,000 feet.

Was this the 100oct or the 'normal' one?

I'm not having any problems with blown engines, unless I'm panicked and forget as I said above. Mind you, I usually leave it at 2500-2650rpm and +5 boost until I get into a combat/chase situation.

However, I'm beginning to wonder if my initial good impressions of relative performance were from flying against below par pilots in the 109s.

Co-alt/co-E situations seemed ok. They can't just run away now as they did before. But again, it may have been the pilots. The 109s should have a small climb advantage, but it shouldn't really be an easy thing to do, unless they have more energy to begin with.

What would be useful is if the ATAG 109 pilots could do a few comparitive tests with us on the server sometime, without shooting the crap out of eachother that is. :D

MiK_684
Aug-07-2012, 10:02
I have done some test fights against a teammate (Gravit)

U can't catch the 109's if he is aware of his power settings and flight path. We started at same height and speed, and all i've to do in the 109 is to release the Kraken...eehh... push the throttle forward. And if its not enough i use the wep , which i can spam so often i like. I didnt want to say thats unrealistic but in fact that the red side hasnt the power, climb rate, missing top speed and overheating issue it feels damn wrong.

I fly for both side's, actually more on the red side but with this patch it isnt fun anymore.

Had a fight with a 109 which had lost one third of his left wing, cause of aa damage, which was flying away to france... i thought by myself...well let him and tried to fly wing to wing but first i had to catch him. I flew with a Spit 1a one mile behind the 109 heading low level to france. All i can reach was 260 mph and i couldnt catch him...as i asked in the chat who that 109 pilot was and which speed he is doing, he responded and tell me 440 km/h ( 273.4 mph).
Its possible i missmanaged my powersettings and could reach some mph more but whenever i've done this before my temps raise and an engine failure occurs.


If u doing some test flights and fights i would join in.

ATAG_Septic
Aug-07-2012, 10:08
Was this the 100oct or the 'normal' one?

I'm not having any problems with blown engines, unless I'm panicked and forget as I said above. Mind you, I usually leave it at 2500-2650rpm and +5 boost until I get into a combat/chase situation.

However, I'm beginning to wonder if my initial good impressions of relative performance were from flying against below par pilots in the 109s.

Co-alt/co-E situations seemed ok. They can't just run away now as they did before. But again, it may have been the pilots. The 109s should have a small climb advantage, but it shouldn't really be an easy thing to do, unless they have more energy to begin with.

What would be useful is if the ATAG 109 pilots could do a few comparitive tests with us on the server sometime, without shooting the crap out of eachother that is. :D

I'd like to contribute to such tests if I can be on the server at the same time. I'm fairly impartial although I currently fly red fighters, largely for the engine management, I have no prejudice either way.

Septic.

I also remain on-standby for tyre pressure checking duties as required. (Do the colonials spell tyre differently too?)

Septic.

Dutch
Aug-07-2012, 10:11
all i've to do in the 109 is to release the Kraken...

:)

That's useful info MiK, thanks.

Hmmm..........I'm going to do a bit more testing.

Dutch
Aug-07-2012, 10:28
I'd like to contribute to such tests if I can be on the server at the same time. I'm fairly impartial although I currently fly red fighters, largely for the engine management, I have no prejudice either way.

I also remain on-standby for tyre pressure checking duties as required. (Do the colonials spell tyre differently too?)

Septic.

Sounds good Septic. Yes they do, I believe. :D

Ohms
Aug-07-2012, 11:14
I'd like to contribute to such tests if I can be on the server at the same time. I'm fairly impartial although I currently fly red fighters, largely for the engine management, I have no prejudice either way.

Septic.

I also remain on-standby for tyre pressure checking duties as required. (Do the colonials spell tyre differently too?)

Septic.

Sad to say but we do spell tyre(tire) wrong but we have been able to keep the u in colour.

Ohmie

Fried
Aug-07-2012, 12:03
Urizen;16537']the funny thing with engine temps is, that one plane stays cool, even if you abuse the engine and the next plane is hotter than the sun.
Houston, we have a problem.

+1

Last night I got my usual Spit II and went for a spin, I had decided to keep fairly low as the previous evening my engine blew every time I went high, yes I could control it to a degree but as soon as you had to stress it...bang, well on my sortie last night I kept the throttle full open at 100% and adjusted my prop to give me 2500 rpm, that engine just kept going and going, temps kept low, below 100 on the water and below 90 on the oil gauge. It just seems sometimes no matter what you do it will blow and other times its fine but definately lasted well at low level last night, more testing needed I guess.

Whilst on the subject of engine management, does the 109 suffer like the spit, for the first time in my Clod history I have had a few sorties on the blue side due to seeing large differences in team numbers, so I jumped in a bf109 e4 to even out the numbers a little, but also because I wanted to learn the art of adjusting the prop for the various situations and also to have the benefit of the auto prop whilst trying other stuff out, from what I have seen you can just fly around full throttle and using the afterburner whenever you like and not have a problem, well that's what it seemed like to me on the very sorties I had. Does CEM not affect the blue side as much or was I just a lucky noob.

ATAG_Septic
Aug-07-2012, 12:19
+1

Last night I got my usual Spit II and went for a spin, I had decided to keep fairly low as the previous evening my engine blew every time I went high, yes I could control it to a degree but as soon as you had to stress it...bang, well on my sortie last night I kept the throttle full open at 100% and adjusted my prop to give me 2500 rpm, that engine just kept going and going, temps kept low, below 100 on the water and below 90 on the oil gauge. It just seems sometimes no matter what you do it will blow and other times its fine but definately lasted well at low level last night, more testing needed I guess.

Whilst on the subject of engine management, does the 109 suffer like the spit, for the first time in my Clod history I have had a few sorties on the blue side due to seeing large differences in team numbers, so I jumped in a bf109 e4 to even out the numbers a little, but also because I wanted to learn the art of adjusting the prop for the various situations and also to have the benefit of the auto prop whilst trying other stuff out, from what I have seen you can just fly around full throttle and using the afterburner whenever you like and not have a problem, well that's what it seemed like to me on the very sorties I had. Does CEM not affect the blue side as much or was I just a lucky noob.


I think you're bang-on. Prop pitch and boost is where I control both engine temps and speed. I just lean a little under boost but otherwise it's +5% boost out of combat, full boost with BCO in short bursts in combat. and The 109s are too easy in terms of CEM for me although Krupi asserted recently somewhere that you can blow the engine I think you have to work at it :)

ATAG_Snapper
Aug-07-2012, 12:22
Was this the 100oct or the 'normal' one?

I'm not having any problems with blown engines, unless I'm panicked and forget as I said above. Mind you, I usually leave it at 2500-2650rpm and +5 boost until I get into a combat/chase situation.

However, I'm beginning to wonder if my initial good impressions of relative performance were from flying against below par pilots in the 109s.

Co-alt/co-E situations seemed ok. They can't just run away now as they did before. But again, it may have been the pilots. The 109s should have a small climb advantage, but it shouldn't really be an easy thing to do, unless they have more energy to begin with.

What would be useful is if the ATAG 109 pilots could do a few comparitive tests with us on the server sometime, without shooting the crap out of eachother that is. :D

It was the 100-octane Spitfire Ia. I edited my post above to clarify that. I was trying IvanK's recommendation of 2850 rpms/6.2 lbs thrust he recommended above in the original post. No joy to that, I regret.

re the 109 over Ramsgate. Since I speedily closed on him as he was finishing his strafing run I can only assume that I was in a superior energy state at co-alt. He didn't perform any evasive maneuvers other than a steady climbout (ie. not a zoom) and holding a steady course Southwards. I found at 2600 rpms/6.2 lbs that not only was I no longer gaining on him, but I was now dropping back. Increasing my settings to 2850/12 lbs boost/auto-lean mixture did not lessen the distance. The 109 was still apparently unaware of my presence since he was not evading with me directly behind and slightly below. When my engine gave out at these elevated settings I fell away and he didn't turn to the attack. I could easily have announced my presence behind him by opening fire, but since I was too far out of range (~250 yds distance, but my convergence was only 180 yds) my tracers speeding past him would only alert him to me. I would've been easy meat with a blown engine. In great frustration I limped back to Manston and the 109 continued on completely oblivious. I have to admit, this kinda takes the wind out of my sails -- it's so rare to have a juicy target served up on a platter only to have it slowly taken from your grasp.

For the sake of challenging gameplay for both sides, I can't for the life of me understand why the devs can't pull their thumbs out of their collective asses and at least punch in accurate speeds for Spits, Hurries, 109's, and 110's. The data has been given them by IvanK, but 1.5 years later all they can do is progressively pooch the FM's with each successive "patch" (I use the term loosely). One thing I resolved last night is that I will no longer fly CoD online while this utterly stupid situation persists. As we all agree, this is just a video game and for me, life is too short to be so exasperated each time I play. It ain't fun for me, anymore.

[FFCW]Urizen
Aug-07-2012, 12:31
...although Krupi asserted recently somewhere that you can blow the engine I think you have to work at it :)

I have yet to blow a engine in a 109 due to overheating and i abused them, i literally raped them and nothing happened, not even a slight loss of power.
If i would do that in a spit, she would eat my intestines for breakfast.

Dutch
Aug-07-2012, 12:36
It ain't fun for me, anymore.

Understand fully. That's why I went off flying biplanes and ugly jets for a while. Not to mention sci-fi mechanical suit thingies.

My enthusiasm returned with this patch, and a few 109 victories, although I'm pretty convinced that the 88's damage model has been toughened up.........

On the other hand, it's quite possible that time away has skewed my judgement of the FMs/DMs completely. :joystick:

ATAG_Snapper
Aug-07-2012, 13:28
No worries, I'll just crumple a few squirrelly P51's on takeoff and proclaim my disgust over at the DCS board. Then I'll do the same over at ROF. Hopefully by that time we'll have a new patch and I can start all over! :)

ATAG_Septic
Aug-07-2012, 13:38
It was the 100-octane Spitfire Ia. I edited my post above to clarify that. I was trying IvanK's recommendation of 2850 rpms/6.2 lbs thrust he recommended above in the original post. No joy to that, I regret.

re the 109 over Ramsgate. Since I speedily closed on him as he was finishing his strafing run I can only assume that I was in a superior energy state at co-alt. He didn't perform any evasive maneuvers other than a steady climbout (ie. not a zoom) and holding a steady course Southwards. I found at 2600 rpms/6.2 lbs that not only was I no longer gaining on him, but I was now dropping back. Increasing my settings to 2850/12 lbs boost/auto-lean mixture did not lessen the distance. The 109 was still apparently unaware of my presence since he was not evading with me directly behind and slightly below. When my engine gave out at these elevated settings I fell away and he didn't turn to the attack. I could easily have announced my presence behind him by opening fire, but since I was too far out of range (~250 yds distance, but my convergence was only 180 yds) my tracers speeding past him would only alert him to me. I would've been easy meat with a blown engine. In great frustration I limped back to Manston and the 109 continued on completely oblivious. I have to admit, this kinda takes the wind out of my sails -- it's so rare to have a juicy target served up on a platter only to have it slowly taken from your grasp.

For the sake of challenging gameplay for both sides, I can't for the life of me understand why the devs can't pull their thumbs out of their collective asses and at least punch in accurate speeds for Spits, Hurries, 109's, and 110's. The data has been given them by IvanK, but 1.5 years later all they can do is progressively pooch the FM's with each successive "patch" (I use the term loosely). One thing I resolved last night is that I will no longer fly CoD online while this utterly stupid situation persists. As we all agree, this is just a video game and for me, life is too short to be so exasperated each time I play. It ain't fun for me, anymore.

I still have a perhaps forlorn hope that the 100oct 1a is more competitive in this beta as long as you keep your revs down. I've managed to hit a couple of 109s in climbing fights recently, it could have been entirely luck but I clutch at straws.

Septic.

ATAG_JTDawg
Aug-07-2012, 13:44
This new patch has givin me ctd's again , (always on 6 of bad guy) i find myself watching the gauges when i should be checking my 6 , with boost pushed , Snappers on the money , I'm fine with complex engine stuff but come on :grrr: the joy is almost gone as the game is so lop sided any more , i think snoopy"s dog house is probally better than all RAF Planes. Just thinking out loud here = let's all go blue, i can taste the puke in my mouth as i said that :stunned: the 100oct is a sugar pill ,that will leave ya walking home everytime !! speeds way down watching e4s turn an walk away with inpunity, is getting old fast :( , it is not the game keeping me around it's the players .Watching Drinkins last night was about all i could chew last night as Macro an i were escorting bombers we were 3000 feet up on him dived screaming at him as surly an easy kill we have E As he took out the first bomber, even after getting hits on him, an doing are best to catch him, for some 20 or more mins, with him flying like he didnt look at us with so much as a flinch, any way after he took out each bomber down to the last one, then typed in chat YOU CAN'T PROTECT YOUR BOMBERS , What a joke this game has become, THE FUN IS GONE ITS NOT THE PILOT ITS THE FING GAME, I want my nuts back!!!!!!

MiK_684
Aug-07-2012, 14:31
Well in my opinion every blue Pilot has to fly ones a time for the red side and otherwise just to see whats going on.

I dont want to blame the 109 Jockey's or the Power of the 109, cause its seems okay, its the lack of power of the Spitfires/ Hurris.

With this patch the coughing with negative G is way better, even so is the acceleration, but with that we get the overheating issue... its just..dunno.

Maybe we should use special tactics and the most red players should fly in pink Tiger Moth, so the 109 will slow down or turn a lot more :devilish:

I guess we've all made the same experience for getting a kill.
- Dive on the enemy
- enemy turns
-enemy climbs up to you but you have enough energy to make a chandelle and can roll on him, or can shot at the climbing 109 from a dive
- he didnt see u on his 6 and after a "loong" time you are in convergence distance :goofy
-ah forgot he made a high AoA deflection shot and stalled /spinned :)


The thing is...we are frustrated because we see, know the potencial of CLOD... and still i am not at the point where i want to give up.

Keep it up.... red is the underdog but let the spit and hurri get their potencial, you could pay all back :devilish:

ATAG_Septic
Aug-07-2012, 14:38
Maybe we should use special tactics and the most red players should fly in pink Tiger Moth, so the 109 will slow down or turn a lot more :devilish:



I'd seriously give that a try, if it had guns :)

Septic.

[FFCW]Urizen
Aug-07-2012, 14:45
M-M-M-M-M-M-M-M-M-anouverkill!!!! :PP

ATAG_JTDawg
Aug-07-2012, 14:53
I'd seriously give that a try, if it had guns :)

Septic.

roflmao OHMIE AN I said that last night , an i didn't say i was going anywhere ! like i said it's the players that keep this going not the devs , an besides that who would keep Snapper typing like a collage kid getting his term paper ready :geek:

ATAG_Septic
Aug-07-2012, 15:01
roflmao OHMIE AN I said that last night , an i didn't say i was going anywhere ! like i said it's the players that keep this going not the devs , an besides that who would keep Snapper typing like a collage kid getting his term paper ready :geek:

I think I witnessed your frustrating chase of that 109 through chat, it made me smile at the time but so frustrating. I've a wishful suspicion the Spit1a climbs well and performs well enough at low revs in this Beta, I'm just not experienced enough in the fighters to prove it to myself and was hoping someone such as yourself could provide some encouragement, or am I flogging a dead horse and it's wait till next patch?

Septic.

ATAG_JTDawg
Aug-07-2012, 15:24
Nope we are working on a secret weapon as we speak (shhhh) an our tactics have to change with every patch ( cool it keeps ya on your toe's ) we our also developing that 2 wingy thing (moth) with a pork chop tied to the tail :hypnotized:,(who could resist a pork chop) then we bring in the DH 20-5 TO Clip thier tail feathers :recon: . then as fast as lightning we screen shot the event , an threaten to show his buddies if he dont fly strait an level the next time we meet :PP BTW i slept in a holiday inn express last night

[FFCW]Urizen
Aug-07-2012, 15:39
not by any chance with a tiger in a moth costume, have ya :bedlove: :hide:

Catseye
Aug-07-2012, 17:20
Snip . . . . .
For the sake of challenging gameplay for both sides, I can't for the life of me understand why the devs can't pull their thumbs out of their collective asses and at least punch in accurate speeds for Spits, Hurries, 109's, and 110's. The data has been given them by IvanK, but 1.5 years later all they can do is progressively pooch the FM's with each successive "patch" (I use the term loosely). One thing I resolved last night is that I will no longer fly CoD online while this utterly stupid situation persists. As we all agree, this is just a video game and for me, life is too short to be so exasperated each time I play. It ain't fun for me, anymore.

Yup, gotta go along with that.
Seems 2500 or less with full boost works under 10,000 ft. Shame a fellow has to play with settings to offset long standing programming deficiencies and then have to go through a complete work up on the next patch to figure out how to keep the aircraft flying.

Just thinking about your convergence settings. At 180 yds., you can still hit him up to 360 yds. but not at the sweet spot.

Cheers.

ATAG_Snapper
Aug-07-2012, 17:29
Yup, gotta go along with that.
Seems 2500 or less with full boost works under 10,000 ft. Shame a fellow has to play with settings to offset long standing programming deficiencies and then have to go through a complete work up on the next patch to figure out how to keep the aircraft flying.

Just thinking about your convergence settings. At 180 yds., you can still hit him up to 360 yds. but not at the sweet spot.

Cheers.

Re convergence: agreed, to be sure. My own woeful experience has been that if I don't nail Mr 109 right on the numbers from below.....it's kinda like hitting a grizzly bear uphill with a BB gun. That equates to a mighty big "uh oh!" LOL (Yeah, I might get lucky and hit his elevator, but my name is Snapper, not "Got Lucky Last Night" Catseye...... hehehehe)

Jugdriver
Aug-07-2012, 20:03
Well, I tried climbing the Ia 100 octane at 2850/6 lbs boost.....blew the engine at 11,000 feet. It was a long glide back.

.

I have been able to climb the Spit IA 100 oct to over 11K at 2850 and 6.2 boost without overheat (below 91 on the oil and 110 on the water), but it will not do it every time… The engine management is inconsistent from sortie to sortie for some reason. I am also getting at least 10 mph less at 14K than I was before the patch. Seems like the Spit 1A 100 oct now climbs better under 12K (if you get one that will not overheat) but then goes back to the lack of power over 14K we had with the other Spits a couple of patches ago.

JD
AKA_MattE

ATAG_Snapper
Aug-07-2012, 21:01
Hmm, all else being equal, the other factor playing a major role is the Rate of Climb. I don't have a bunch of charts to copy&paste here, but possibly I was trying to climb too fast without getting enough air through the rad. ie a sustained climb of 2500 ft/min @ 130 mph IAS is harder on engine cooling than, say, 170 mph IAS @ 2000 fpm -- all at the same engine settings of 2850 rpms/6.2 lbs boost.

Jugdriver
Aug-07-2012, 21:14
I think it is the engine management model, for some reason it is not doing the same thing each flight.


JD
AKA_MattE

ATAG_JTDawg
Aug-08-2012, 00:23
OK i have to agree, my findings = plane seems to pop if i do not warm up long enough 60c on oil , i can rush a take off at 50c even 40c an 15 to 20 mins. into flight, that dreaded shake. an always with Boost on . By leaving Boost off an doing a proper warm up it doesn't seem to happen. Tested time an time again , in differant combination With same results , Where is Snapper i posted some funny stuff an no comment , is he mad at me. SNAPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPER TALK TO ME :( .ps If Snapper asks i'll give ya my amazing climb rates an temps an speeds

Ivank
Aug-10-2012, 01:22
Ref the inconsistent engine damage I think JTDawg is on to something with Rad temp before advancing the throttle. It seems to me that if you EVER rattle the engine on the ground during warm up by prematurely advancing the the throttle you have set the seed for an engine issue. This I think is the "randomness" event. We do it but dont even recall all it or link it with the damage that later comes.

What works consistently for me as posted on 1C:

Before start Prop pitch 3 blips back from full fine ... will give you 2850 in the climb.

1. After start Smooth idle Rad Closed till 60C Coolant. (no increase in throttle at all till 60C RAD)
2. At 60C Rad Full open.
3. Get airborne ASAP get to Climb IAS (160 ASAP)
4. Climb +9/2850 (Spit II) +6/2850 Spit MKI at 160MPH
5. Eyes on Oil Temp and Rad
6. Dont exceed 95C Oil, 120 Rad
7. If Oil temp at 95C Set RPM 2400 (or less) till Oil temp under control (94C is ok)
8. If Rad temp 120 set Boost +6(Spit MKII) +4 Spit MKI immediately (Aim for max 110C in the climb)

If >120C Rad you WILL get engine damage almost instantly.
if > 95C Oil Temp you most likely will get engine damage.
Oil temp main variable is RPM
Rad Temp main variable is Boost.
Dont exceed 2850RPM at any time.

Using these techniques in a spit MKII you can climb all the way to 17,000ft without issue. With perhaps a single
adjustment to RPM and Boost.

Even so The CLOD Merlin is overly critical in the climb with Oil and Rad Temps especially in the Spit MKII IMO and has been raised directly with the devs.

ATAG_JTDawg
Aug-10-2012, 01:37
:( Really me ahh thanks man :) But i like to fly :salute: BTW i we can climb the spit 1 at 2.5 to to 3.0 at 170 to 190 mph to 10,000 then go to stage 2 on prop. 50% mix ( the lever is wrong ,scared they fix it bad ) continue at 2.0 to2.5 till about 16.000 ft then back out of climb to 1.0 to 20.000 or 22,000 ft 110 on temp maybe backing out throttle 10% which then will drop to about 98 to 102 oil 88 to 90 i'll remember more l8ter salute

ATAG_Snapper
Aug-10-2012, 05:56
Here I am late for the party once again!

First, welcome to the Forum, IvanK! We all very much appreciate your input, especially those of us that are finding the currently-modelled Spits a bit of a challenge right now. :salute:

Dawg -- thanks again for your excellent tutorage on the Mark I the other night. Along with IvanK's input, the 71st's/Macro's findings on the Mark I all breathe new life -- or at least, FUN -- for some of us easily-discouraged types trying to play Cliffs of Dover. :D

Here's my input on flying the Mark I for a couple of hours yesterday afternoon. I posted this over in the ATAG private executive lounge, but finished my Crown Royal Manhattan(s) and stumbled over here to repost my infinite words of wisdom below:

Hi chaps,

The mixture lever was fixed in the latest patch for the Spit 1a, 1a - 100 octane, and the IIa, but strangely NOT in the 2-speed Spit I. Makes it a bit awkward for startups and verrrry long warmups due to the throttle/mixture lever interlock, since these two procedures are done in Full Lean -- which is incorrect.

Once your oil temp reaches 60 C (or your son moves back home -- whichever comes first), for taxiing and take off you have to push the mixture lever forward as you advance the throttle. Very weird.

As the 71st very kindly shared with yours truly (thanks Macro, Ohmie, and JTDawg), climb out is very good at 160 mph, 3000 rpms, and 6.2 lbs boost, and between 2500 - 3000 (tel:2500%20-%203000) fpm in Fine Pitch. Oil temp will stay at 90 - 95 and water at about 100. As pointed out by same, at around 10 angels, pull the pitch lever back to Coarse and pull the mixture lever back about 40% (ie. 60% Rich) and continue climbing. The rpms immediately drop to about 2400, but keep throttle on full and watch oil & water temps. If they start getting too high, relax throttle a bit and level off your climb to allow speed to build up -- the temps will come down quickly. (The A2A Spitfire MK 1 has the 2-speed prop modelled as a variable speed. The Accusim people claim that the BoB pilots found that by careful movement of the 2-speed pitch control lever, these pilots could actually dial in intermediate pitch settings to great advantage. Not a true Constant Speed though; the prop pitch had to be constantly monitored & adjusted with changes in engine boost, plane altitude & attitude, etc. this is NOT modelled in CoD).

As Macro et al have found and passed on, this Spit 1 really finds its own above 20 angels. As they said, too, it really holds it speed well in a dive. Watch the dive speed though and stay throttled back in an extended dive. I didn't note the speed when I dove on a marauding Ju88 far below and lost my ailerons and rudder. I managed to make a crash landing on the beach at English Point using just elevator control and engine torque (for rudder/aileron!).

I had to completely rethink my whole tactics in flying this Spit 1 to use the energy retention capability of this Mark. I made the mistake of going to Fine pitch/high revs in a 10K turning dogfight with a 109 and squandered my e advantage. Make no mistake, the 109 still has horsepower in spades over the Spitfire MK I at low - intermediate altitudes. I lost that one! However, I fought another 109 to a stalemate low over the Channel near the French Coast. I used Fine pitch/high revs to out turn him to thwart his diving passes but then extended out using Coarse pitch and about 80% Rich mixture to gain a little more level speed to set up for the next turn -- there's no outrunning a 109 at low altitudes. I had several excellent deflection shot opportunities that my lousy marksmanship didn't exploit -- I actually saw hits on him that the .303 peashooters didn't really phase him; I suffered no hits at all AFAIK. Our prolonged dogfight carried us feet dry over France and the crafty 109 tried to draw me over an airfield. I also saw a couple of dots in the distance and I decided to break off and run home like a little girl. No one pursued and I landed safely at Hawkinge.

I share the 71st's opinion that the Spit I is the way to go at present (I haven't tried the Hurri 2-speed yet). The patched Ia and IIa are both pooched, as are their 100-octane counterparts. ALL the Spits are too slow compared to RL Spits, but as Macro found, the current MK 1 2-speed at least keeps us in the game under certain combat conditions until the devs can actually deliver on a future patch.

A real eye-opener: fly the A2A Wings of Power 3 Spitfire Mark I, Ia, or IIa. You will freaking GASP -- I guaran-damn-tee it. It flies exactly like you would think a Spitfire should (Crumpp's excepted, of course). Sweet, powerful, like a thorobred racehorse. With no guns, of course. But it's a fantastic learning experience with EVERY system modelled (sans guns).

Thanks again to the 71st for putting some cajones back into our Sissyfires. Special thanks to Ohmie for giving me a heads up, and JTDawg running through the cockpit drill with me the other night -- we had fun!


-- Snapper

ATAG_Septic
Aug-10-2012, 06:23
Best post my response here too then :)

Quote Originally Posted by ATAG_Snapper View Post
Hi chaps,


Once your oil temp reaches 60 C (or your son moves back home -- whichever comes first)

First laugh of the day!

I've been trying the 100oct Spit using the prop-pitch more like a two speed. Lots of low gear (coarse pitch) when able keeps the engine cool enough for quick bursts of high revs and boost. What I've discovered is that it makes absolutely no difference whatsoever to my chances of survival, but unfortunately, the type I'm flying never helps much anyway.

Cheers, Septic.

Ivank
Aug-10-2012, 07:46
RAF Mixture setups are still bugged. The interlink is now correct (Ver1.08) on all types, i.e. pulling the throttle back will always drag the mixture lever back. What is still wrong is that the mixture levers have variable movement. They shouldn't they are IRL (BOB period) 2 position only Back for AUTO RICH, forward for AUTO LEAN. So the concept of setting an intermediate setting shouldn't even be possible.

In AUTO RICH the system will automatically vary the mixture with altitude but always on the rich side. This ensures that all power settings are available with appropriate Fuel/Air ratios for all altitudes. When Running Boost Cutout and pulling +12/3000rpm its imperative (IRL) to be running in AUTO RICH i.e. lever fully back. At present you need to do the opposite to maintain smooth running.

AUTO LEAN will also vary the mixture with altitude but always on the lean side, not all power settings are possible with AUTO LEAN. There are Max boost limitations in AUTO LEAN (+4 for the SPIT II and +2.5 for the Hurri I and Spit I). Ignoring these IRL would result in detonation and rough running. The only time you would be interested in running in AUTO LEAN would be for range and endurance type flying.

In a practical sense for us in CLOD in DF servers there should be little real point in it. i.e. all we really should need is AUTO RICH ... lever all the way back and forget about it :) I have yet to see a DF scenario in CLOD that really requires you to manage fuel consumption.

This has all been communicated directly with the Devs so hopefully it will be fixed correctly once and for all.

ATAG_Septic
Aug-10-2012, 08:02
RAF Mixture setups are still bugged. The interlink is now correct (Ver1.08) on all types, i.e. pulling the throttle back will always drag the mixture lever back. What is still wrong is that the mixture levers have variable movement. They shouldn't they are IRL (BOB period) 2 position only Back for AUTO RICH, forward for AUTO LEAN. So the concept of setting an intermediate setting shouldn't even be possible.

In AUTO RICH the system will automatically vary the mixture with altitude but always on the rich side. This ensures that all power settings are available with appropriate Fuel/Air ratios for all altitudes. When Running Boost Cutout and pulling +12/3000rpm its imperative (IRL) to be running in AUTO RICH i.e. lever fully back. At present you need to do the opposite to maintain smooth running.

AUTO LEAN will also vary the mixture with altitude but always on the lean side, not all power settings are possible with AUTO LEAN. There are Max boost limitations in AUTO LEAN (+4 for the SPIT II and +2.5 for the Hurri I and Spit I). Ignoring these IRL would result in detonation and rough running. The only time you would be interested in running in AUTO LEAN would be for range and endurance type flying.

In a practical sense for us in CLOD in DF servers there should be little real point in it. i.e. all we really should need is AUTO RICH ... lever all the way back and forget about it :) I have yet to see a DF scenario in CLOD that really requires you to manage fuel consumption.

This has all been communicated directly with the Devs so hopefully it will be fixed correctly once and for all.

Thanks Ivank, it's reassuring to know you seem to have the Dev's ears.

Septic.

ATAG_Snapper
Aug-10-2012, 08:45
Thanks Ivank, it's reassuring to know you seem to have the Dev's ears.

Septic.

+1

Ohms
Aug-10-2012, 13:17
Thanks for the kind words Snapper, your welcome. Macro has given us all a fighting chance now. The DH Hurri works the same with slightly lower speeds but you still have a chance if you are not alone. I have tried the other red planes and none of them are as good as these two aircraft, prop manipulation does nothing for you.

Let's wait for the fallout as some will cry foul! :grrr:


Ohmie :)

MiK_684
Aug-10-2012, 13:39
Hey Chaps,
want to share some links with u...

the first one's are really good. badly they are for the later Merlins. I'll search the web if i find s.th else for the Merlin 12.

http://aviationshoppe.com/manuals/v-1650_engine_packard/merlin.html

http://aviationshoppe.com/manuals/engine_technical_manual/merlin_66_67_70_71_76_77_85.html

Difference of the Merlins
http://www.jshawmsc.f2s.com/merlin.htm

Last one the Pilot Notes Manual of Spit 2a
http://www.scribd.com/doc/4598146/Pilots-Notes-Supermarine-Spitfire-Mk-IIA-IIB-Merlin-XII-Engine

Cheers and a good hunt
MiK

ATAG_JTDawg
Aug-10-2012, 13:59
Thanks for the kind words Snapper!! :stunned: BUT I LOVE YOU LOL TAKE CARE M8 KILL THEM ALL :)