WAR MACHINE - New ATAG/401 Campaign

[ATAG_Freya]

The focus and determination when planning an operation.
The spirit of comrades working together towards a goal.
The thrill of the job well done and the mission accomplished.
The valiant fight in a losing battle but ultimately winning the war....

ATAG and No.401 Sqn Present:


http://i1316.photobucket.com/albums/t611/sarah7715/WARMACHINE_zpsx2mtag0q.jpg



The War Machine campaign is designed to take place over many evenings of play, offering an organized event experience that evolves and changes around the actions and strategies of the players involved.

The teams will be organized into three 'Commands' each. Bomber Command, Escort Command, and Intercept Command. Players will sign up to participate as a pilot of one of these three branches with the understanding that they may transfer between the commands after the start of the campaign.

Bomber Command will be responsible for conducting attacks on enemy infrastructure. The destruction of fuel production, fuel storage, aircraft production, and rail networks is its primary responsibility. To that end, a Bomber Commander will be elected by the pilots of Bomber Command to select objectives, plan operations, and keep a general record of the progress of the campaign.

Escort Command will be tasked with providing Bomber Command with suitable and effective escort to and from their targets. Bombers are the most costly aircraft to produce for both teams and the team that conserves the most bombers while still managing to effect damage on the enemy will find itself gaining ground. An Escort Commander, elected by the pilots of Escort Command, will work in concert with the Bomber Commander to give each attack a suitable escort presence.

Intercept Command is in charge of the defense of the team's industry and as such is required to be ever vigilant for incoming raids. The pilots of this command must become intimately involved in the tracking of enemy contacts on radar, identifying incoming attacks, and scrambling to intercept and deflect the marauders. An Intercept Commander will be elected by the pilots of Intercept Command to help manage distribution of pilots to airfields and making sure that if a raid comes in there are aircraft and pilots to engage it.

In addition to these duties, the Commanders of the different divisions must work together to manage war materials to ensure the ability of their team to continue fighting. The blood of each team, aircraft and the fuel needed to fly them, is produced regularly and distributed to airfields and sectors. Ports have been damaged in sector 1? Transfer needed fuel from sector 2 to keep those airfields in operation. Bomber losses heavy in sector 3? Direct your factories to produce and deliver more bombers there.

The ultimate objective of the campaign is to destroy the enemy's industrial heart. For the Blue team, destroy the factories, ports, fuel storage, and rail stations in London. For the Red team, destroy the same in Arras. These targets lie deep in enemy territory, however, and reaching them without weakening the enemy's front line will be difficult.

Work together, coordinate, plan your strategies and execute them well and your team will find victory over the WAR MACHINE.

RULES

Due to the open ended nature of the campaign and the objectives therein, there is only one rule for this campaign and it revolves around the actions of bomber pilots. Bombers are restricted from departing for a combat mission unless there are 3+ bombers in the group with the same objective and the same course to target.

There is one exception to this rule and that is for ferrying aircraft from one base to another. As aircraft are limited and tracked, it may at times be necessary to fly a bomber from one airfield to another friendly airfield in order to bring the number of bombers at that airfield up to the number required to depart for a combat mission.

TIMES

Missions will be flown on Saturday North American Evenings @ 8:00pm - 12:00am eastern time. (GMT -5), beginning Feb. 27th

This link will give your local time of the event:

http://www.thetimezoneconverter.com/?t=8:00pm&tz=GMT-4&


WHERE

ATAG server 2 (named "ATAG's Bomber campaign" on the server list). We will use the ATAG server 2 section of Teamspeak, which will be named "War Machine" on the weekends.

TEAMS

Players who wish to participate in the missions involved in this Campaign must sign up in this thread and request placement in one of the Commands. Once each Command is full (or if not full once the campaign is near to beginning) elections for Commanders of each section will be held (the position is not permanent and may be transferred to another at will if the pilots of that command are willing).

NOTE: Switching teams from Red to Blue during the campaign will not be allowed and players who are seen to willfully join the game on the wrong side will be warned and then banned. Loose lips sink ships, et cetera.

RAF BOMBER Command will employ the Blenheim Mk IV
RAF ESCORT and INTERCEPT Command will employ the Hurricane Mk I, Spitfire Mk Ia and IIa

LUFTWAFFE BOMBER Command will employ the BF 110, He-111H-2, Bf109E-3b and Ju88A-1
LUFTWAFFE ESCORT and INTERCEPT Command will employ the Bf109E-3b and Bf109E-4

NOTE: There are no 'assigned' aircraft for the campaign. Production of aircraft is entirely up to each team. Later variant aircraft are more costly to produce, however. As your factories are bombed, it may become too costly to continue to produce the better variants and stop gap production of less expensive types may be required while your industrial capacity is repaired over time. They heavy bombers are the most expensive aircraft to produce.


RAF BOMBER COMMAND
1.
2. No.450 Caveman
3. No.450 Squiz
4. No.450 Devil
5. No.450 Kookaburra
6. ATAG_Knuckles
7. ATAG_Septic
8. Logan (20thBG Blackwolf)
9. 20thBG_Werewolf
10. 20thBG_Zights
11. 20thBG_Yorktown
12.|450|boom
+


RAF ESCORT COMMAND
1. No.401 Alpine
2. No.401 Speed
3. No.401 Hawk
4. No.401 Stic
5. No.401 Wolverine
6. Target
7.
8+

RAF INTERCEPT COMMAND
1. ATAG_Deacon
2. ATAG_Snapper
3. Kendy
4. Rush
5. ATAG_Flare
6. 71st_AH_SmokeJumper
7. Walsh
8+

__________________________________________________ _______
RESERVES (see post 2, notice 3)

RAF

ATAG_Monkeynut
Gromit
20thBG_Banshee
20thBG_Mudcat
Mr pickles

LW

Stab I./JG 51 - Bär
Stab I./JG 51 - Gallowitsch
Stab I./JG 51 - Mölders
Stab I./JG 51 - Schultz
71st_AH_Eagle
integralanomaly (Dirty Rotten Flieger)
Diamondaxe
ATAG_InvaderZim
__________________________________________________ _______
LUFTWAFFE BOMBER COMMAND
1. Lord Wukits
2. ATAG_Freya
3. ATAG_Soldat
4. TGIF_MAS
5. Hening
6. ATAG_Ribbs
7. RAF_Murmansk
8. Timber
9.
10.
11.
12.


LUFTWAFFE ESCORT COMMAND
1. ATAG_Dice
2. ATAG_Heavy
3. III./JG27_Kimbak-2
4. ATAG_Drock
5. ATAG_Torian
6. Kushviper
7. ATAG_Invictus
8. Kmac31
9. ATAG_Berserker
10. Gh0st
+

LUFTWAFFE INTERCEPT COMMAND
1. 9./JG52 Groove
2. DD_Perfesser
3. DD_Gothkrieger
4. DD_Squawk
5. 9./JG52 Reinhart
6. Ruff
7. AKA_Hangten
8+

Space is limited but if the server appears to be handling the player count and the map without strain, the available spaces will potentially be increased.

__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ____________________________
SPECIAL 'BEFORE YOU ASK' SECTION

Q: "What is the reason for the aircraft available? Why did you make those choices?"
A: The short answer is 'because I've spent a lot of time designing these sorts of campaigns and balancing the aircraft sets to make the game enjoyable for everyone and this is my best guess at what will work here'.
The longer answer is that the Blue team has some significant advantages in terms of bomb loads with the Ju88 and He111, has the cannon rounds of the 109s, and has greater production capacity. The industrial capacity of the teams is NOT symmetrical. The Blue team has significantly more resources for aircraft production than the RAF team at the outset of the campaign. To offset this a little bit for the RAF, I've offered them their top tier fighter (but it is costly to produce), and restricted the secondary bomber type for the Blue team to the Stuka. So for any Blue player thinking that they're going to be facing waves of Spitfire IIa fighters, while it is possible that the Red team may decide to prioritize producing Spitfire IIa fighters, that would at the expense of the overall mission objective and very likely be a suicidal strategy for the Red team to take.

Q: "How many missions do I need to commit for?"
A: Look at this more as an on-going weekly battle, than a short term campaign. It could go on for months! It may even have a slightly different roster week in and week out, but we need players who are serious about having fun by taking on this challenge as a long-term endeavor. Players can fly every Saturday, but we all have lives to live and we know that it's humanly impossible to be there always. If you can commit to be involved, then please be involved as much as you can be. It's a marathon, not a sprint. Your team will appreciate your attendance, and maybe even forgive you when you miss one here and there...:D

Q: "How will teams communicate during the week and plan ops?"
A: Players who sign in will be given the necessary forum permissions to view a hidden Forum section for this purpose (Shortly before the campaign begins..)

__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ____________________________

*I would like to add a special thanks to No.401 Wolverine, for designing and building this unique and immersive campaign. Also to ATAG_Snapper, ATAG_Colander, and ATAG_Pantast for forum and server support.*

[ATAG_Freya]

Notice 1:
We certainly realize that the time of mission running is not entirely suitable for our UK/Eastern Europe/Russian/etc friends. It is very possible that an alternate instance of this map could run on server 2 through the week, along with the old ATAG training/racing mission for those who are interested, in order to allow everyone to enjoy the campaign mission at their leisure. Stay tuned for more info as the days pass...


Notice 2:
IF you feel you can not commit on a somewhat regular basis, there is no pressure to sign up.
ALL ARE WELCOME HERE! When you see us on TS on North American Saturday evenings, feel free to drop in and help out - Space permitting!
And remember - once you pick a side, you are commited to that side, no matter how often you fly, whether you are on the official sign up or not.

NOTICE 3:

Have added reserves lists for players who want to join and could only commit once in a while. This is to insure that they have access to their respective teams planning room so they can keep up to date with important campaign info.

Campaign info




Aircraft Production and Delivery

I can hear all the yawns and 'huh?'s out there. However, this is an important lesson, so listen up! The campaign is going to be won and lost by a team's ability to manage resource distribution. This includes fuel, but we'll get to that in another post.

As we fly, we crash. Crashing your aircraft can have one of several effects. Let's go through them!

Crash and Burn: If you crash in a way that blows up the aircraft, it's toast. The aircraft is lost.

Crash and Safe in Friendly Territory (not at an operational airfield): If you manage to crash land and keep the aircraft from blowing up, then the aircraft will be returned to your airfield of origin as 'unserviceable'. What this means is that the aircraft is saved and being worked on in the shops. At the end of the 4 hour mission, the aircraft is repaired and returned to active combat ready status! Well done! (NOTE: There is a bug with the Hurricane that requires you to 'unlock' the gear before attempting a wheels up crash landing otherwise CloD does not correctly record the crash landing)

Crash and Safe in Friendly Territory (at an operational airfield): If you manage to crash land and keep your aircraft from blowing up, the aircraft will be worked on right away and returned to combat ready status, ready to be flown from the airfield again. This is the benefit of returning to your airfield of origin or to any operational airfield.

What does an 'operational airfield' mean? An operational airfield is one of the 10 airfields that you have (11 if you are on Blue team) to use during the campaign. They are:
RED TEAM
Hornchurch
Eastchurch
Manston
Hawkinge
Biggin Hill
West Malling (Maidstone)
Lympne
Kenley
Redhill
Wilmington

BLUE TEAM
Berk
Tramecourt
Ligescourt
Barly
Boulogne Alprech
Marquise West
Coquelles
Oye-Plage
St-Omer Wizernes
Merville Calonnes
Arras

Safe landings at one of the your team's above airfields will, of course, return the aircraft to combat ready status at that airfield.

NOTE! If you land safely at a friendly airfield that is NOT in the list above, the aircraft will be treated as having had an emergency landing and will be declared unserviceable until the erks can look it over and return it to combat status at the end of the mission. In this way, the aircraft won't be lost, but it will be out of action for a time.

So what does this have to do with production, you may ask. Well, as you can see above, there are plenty of ways to lose your aircraft! Aircraft are not infinite! If you have 6 Spitfires at Hawkinge and 6 players take off and are all lost over the channel, there are no more Spitfires at Hawkinge! This is a huge advantage for the enemy if they are attacking targets in that area. It increases the time you need from detection to interception and makes all targets in that area more vulnerable.

So we replace those aircraft with production.

Under the TAB-4 menu, there is an option (5th in the list) for "Aircraft Production and Delivery". Accessing this option presents you with two more options "Production" and "Delivery".

Production is WHAT is being produced by your industrial sectors.
Delivery is WHERE production aircraft will be delivered when they are produced.

Each of your production sectors can focus on a different type of aircraft. London can make Blenheims while Kenley sector can make Hurricanes, for example. It is very important to be aware of the production capacity of each of your sectors in order to most efficiently use their production (viewable via the Sector Report from the TAB-4 menu). Because bombers and top tier fighters require more production capacity than their lower value alternatives, producing bombers in sectors that have low production capacity is going to yield fewer (if any!) aircraft than if they were being made in a sector with higher capacity.

Delivery is important and can also have an impact on your production for a few reasons. Each sector can deliver to airfields that are within it. Biggin Hill sector can deliver to Biggin Hill, West Malling, or Lympne. Kenley sector can deliver to Kenley, Redhill, or Wilmington. But the capital sector (London or Arras) can only deliver to Sector Headquarters. IE, London can only deliver to Hornchurch, Biggin Hill, or Kenley (or Tramecourt, Marquise West, or Merville if Blue). In this way, if you are producing Spitfires at London, but need them delivered to Manston, you would produce them in London with delivery to Hornchurch. Once delivered, you would need to fly them from Hornchurch to Manston. However, if you produced those Spitfires from Hornchurch Sector, you could deliver them straight to Manston without delay.

Production from each sector takes place half an hour after mission start and then every hour after that, so there are a total of 4 production phases every weekend mission.

Avoid running out of aircraft where you need them! Keep the bean counters on your side! Every aircraft is valuable and the fewer you lose, the fewer you have to account for when producing and delivering new ones.

S!


Let's talk fuel:

We've already looked at how aircraft and aircraft production will figure into strategy, but now we will look at how fuel distribution will layer on top of all that like a nice fresh dusting of snow. Deadly, inflammable snow.

Each sector has ports that produce fuel. They produce fuel based on the number of port capacity points they have available at the time of sector production (every hour after the first half hour of play). This fuel is deposited into the fuel silos that populate that sector and is then used for each flight that is made from airfields in that sector.

We've mentioned two things here that are important. Fuel ports and fuel silos.

The ports (represented by PORT CRANES) are where production occurs. The enemy can reduce the amount of fuel being produced by taking out the port cranes. This does not, however, reduce the current amount of fuel already deposited into the fuel silos.

The silos which contain the fuel represent two things: the fuel being stored AND the total amount of fuel that can be stored. If the enemy attacks these fuel silos they will first begin to destroy the fuel capacity (how much total fuel a sector can store). When the capacity is reduced to the point that there is no more empty capacity above the amount of fuel being stored, subsequent attacks will not only reduce capacity, but also destroy fuel stores.

IMPORTANT! Each flight from a sector requires fuel. The sector reports (accessed via the TAB-4 menu) will indicate how much fuel (and how much fuel capacity) is available to each sector. If you run out of fuel in a sector all airfields in that sector are shut down for operation until more fuel is produced or transferred!

Transferred? What is this about transfers? Let's talk fuel transfers.

Each sector has a rail component that is representative of the total number of train stations in each sector. Some sectors have a lot of train stations, some sectors only have a few. By accessing the Fuel Transfers menu from the TAB-4 system, you can assign transfers of fuel from one sector to another via the rail system.

It is critical to note that the transfer of fuel will be restricted by the LOWER of the two rail system values between the two sectors involved in the transfer. For example, the Blue team is attempting to transfer fuel from the Calais sector which currently has 100,000 gallons of fuel to the Le Touquet sector which currently has 0 fuel and a fuel capacity of 20,000. The Calais sector currently has a rail system with 30 points and the Le Touquet system currently has a rail system of 5 points. This means that, unless something changes via enemy action, the Calais sector could potentially transfer 3,000 gallons of fuel (30 rail points times 100 gallons). Unfortunately for Le Touquet, their low rail system points means that they can only receive 500 gallons each transfer cycle (until something changes via repairs or more damage).

I'm sure you've realized by now that the capital sector for the Red team, London, does not have any active airfields but it has plenty of ports! You're very clever. I knew that when I met you. This is, of course, correct. London produces and can store quite a lot of fuel while having no airfields or aircraft to use it up. This fuel can be transferred to the three other sectors as needed. Arras also produces and stores fuel, but very very slowly. Production for Arras, as it has no ports, is quite low. Like London, fuel stored in the Arras sector can be transferred out as needed. This is one good example of how the two teams are not symmetrical in their setup. The Red team has different strengths than the Blue team based entirely on the geography of the map. It will be important to learn these differences as you pursue your strategies.

NOTE! Fuel can be transferred TO London and Arras as well! Front line sectors may see their fuel networks attacked regularly. It may be advisable in times of plenty for fuel to be moved away from the front line to the capital sectors in order to build up a reserve that can be transferred in times of need.

So we begin to see the ways in which a team might attack their opponent. Destroy their rail networks and isolate a sector with low fuel production? Take out the major ports and starve the entire enemy force? Or do you take out major industrial areas and hope to hinder the production of aircraft to the point where the enemy can no longer afford to send bombers? Or destroy the enemy's fuel storage facilities so that even if they can produce fuel they have no where to store it? Which targets are easier? Which are well defended?

One thing is clear, however. You will need to commit to your strategy with a long term resolve. None of these systems can be destroyed in a day or even several missions. You'll have to stick to your guns and have faith in your strategy. Look for the subtle signs that it is having an effect. You can stack the dice as best you can, but at the end of the day you still have to throw them!

S!





Please note that the values described here are meant more as an abstract of the systems involved (clearly more than 500 gallons would fit on a single train). These systems have been designed to create the sentiment of the system as opposed to the reality. We do not have nearly as many aircraft or vehicles in the simulation to worry about as reality would dictate, so the system is scaled to the point where it has impact. Realistically, we would be dealing with fuel on the scale of hundreds of thousands of gallons, but we'd also be worried about fueling thousands of aircraft daily (which, we're clearly not).

[DRock]

Very cool! This is going to be fun.:thumbsup:

I'm in for Blue Bomber.


Thanks for all the hard work on this project, Wolverine. :salute:

[ATAG_Deacon]

I would like to sign up for RAF Escort or Intercept, whichever has the greatest need.

What date will this begin?

[No.401_Wolverine]

Date for start has been set for the 27th of February to allow time for the teams to get signed up, organized with Command leads, and prepared for the campaign in general!

Sign me up!

I'll join Bomber Command to start I think with possible transfer.

Also, these guys should be signing up soon:

Alpine
StiC
Hawk
Squiz
Speed
Devil
Kookaburra

Not sure what commands they want. I'll get the word out for them to reply asap.

[9./JG52 gr00ve]

looks like fun, 109 intercept please :salute:

[Diamondaxe]

I'll take a bf 110 preferably a c7!!!!!!!! WOOT

Ok so i finished reading the mission. Sorry i read it at work on my phone and got a little overexcited when i saw this mission occurs when im off. So no 110's...ok i agree that they are a little unbalancing...blenheims quake in fear at the mere mention of the name....spitfire sputter and huricanes hurrry away...109's breathe a sigh of relief and stucka's think of us a big brother... I guess i can wait till mext round of missions....sniff...

[ATAG_Freya]

I'll take a bf 110 preferably a c7!!!!!!!! WOOT

You may want to read the 1st post more carefully...
:salute:

[ATAG_Snapper]

Please put me down for Fighter Intercept or Escort -- whichever is needed most. :salute:

[ATAG_Freya]

Please put me down for Fighter Intercept or Escort -- whichever is needed most. :salute:

Will put you with Deacon - Keep a closer eye on him this time.. lol

:salute:

[ATAG_Freya]

Quick note:

We certainly realize that the time of mission running is not entirely suitable for our UK/Eastern Europe/Russian/etc friends. It is very possible that an alternate instance of this map could run on server 2 through the week, along with the old ATAG training/racing mission for those who are interested, in order to allow everyone to enjoy the campaign mission at their leisure. Stay tuned for more info as the days pass...

:salute:

[ATAG_yotheguy]

This is going to be so much fun, and I like how anyone can join.;;)

LUFTWAFFE ESCORT COMMAND for me please.:thumbsup::thumbsup:

[No.401_Wolverine]

I think StiC will probably want to go Escort with the other guys. Need to confirm though.

A good thing for us to do once the teams are set is get a few of the guys together from each command for a little teamspeak summit about how all this is going to go. As Freya says, this campaign isn't a sprint - it's a marathon. Instead of constant air action, the gameplay is going to be a lot more like actual operations: period of tense waiting or long distance flights interspersed with brief periods of all out manic excitement.

It's a formula that works. In the past, we've found that this sort of gameplay really gets the blood pumping and puts the pressure on not to make mistakes. The intercept command is going to need to keep an eye on radar, watching and waiting for enemies to start crossing the coast. The enemy is going to try and fool you! If you scramble to intercept something that turns out to be a fighter sweep, you're going to be hard pressed when the actual bombers start coming in on the other side of the map! When you finally get a contact report off of the radar that pinpoints an enemy raid, you get the excitement - you've got a job to do. You get into the air with your intercept group and track it, getting ever closer as you move to cut the raid off. Radar tells you you should be on top of it and then someone spots them. Then the palms really get sweaty.

Topping it off is the fact that if you don't stop that raid, you've got real consequences that aren't just going to be felt in the next few hours. Those results may be felt for the next few weeks.

[ATAG_Septic]

Thank-you Wolverine, Freya et al!

I don't know whether I'd be able to attend regularly enough because of the time for us GMT chaps but would like to be on a reserve list if such were possible?

I'm better in bombers (as the auto-pilot gives my faulty arm a break) but can fly fighters. Also happy to do some transport flights as required.

Red preferred if poss.

Septic.

Spiffing show chaps!

[Squiz]

Confirming RAF Bomber Command please.

|450|Caveman expects that his internet will be fixed in the next week so please include him in RAF Bomber Command.

|450|Squiz

[ATAG_Dave]

First off - :thumbsup::thumbsup: to all involved in creating this.

Im in the UK and cant commit to the original stated time - If something does get sorted for a GMT evening friendy time then I would sign up for a Red fighter position (any role as required).

GL to all

S!

[ATAG_Ribbs]

Put me down as a 109 escort! The dark side...hmmm

Cheers!

[ATAG_Soldat]

Hi Guys Soldat here Bomber Command JU-88 Please
Thanks

[ATAG_Flare]

Timing isn't ideal, right at dinner pacific time . . .

Would there be a problem if I joined in two hours in to the missions? If there isn't, sign me up for red, bomber or intercept! This looks AWESOME, you guys are doing a great job.

EDIT: If a europe friendly time was available then I'd most likely be able to make it - lunchtime/afternoon for me is better than 5pm.

[ATAG_Freya]

Timing isn't ideal, right at dinner pacific time . . .

Would there be a problem if I joined in two hours in to the missions? If there isn't, sign me up for red, bomber or intercept! This looks AWESOME, you guys are doing a great job.

EDIT: If a europe friendly time was available then I'd most likely be able to make it - lunchtime/afternoon for me is better than 5pm.

No problem - Notice # 2 in post # 2 might apply in this case

:thumbsup:

[No.401_Speed (YO-R)]

post deleted

[Dice]

Luftwaffe Escort Command confirmed :D.

[invictus84]

I'd like to fly either Luftwaffe Escort Command or Intercept Command.

My only cavet is that I cannot usually join until between 9 and 9:30PM ET. House rules here in the Invictus household, and....


House Rules Shalt Not Be Broken Lest One Wishes To Risk The Wrath Of The Missus!!








She frightens me. She really really does.

[kookaburra]

Put me down for a Blennie thanks. |450|Kookaburra YO-K

[tgif]

I would to like to go for the blue Bomber command if possible Thanks TGIF MAS

[ZoRPA]

Oh wow! This sounds like a lot of fun. I am however without internet connectivity and won't be able to join in. Pity.
I will keep my eye on this thread for the screenshots/videos of the aftermath.
Have a blast!

[Berserker]

LUFTWAFFE ESCORT COMMAND
1. ATAG_Dice
2. ATAG_Heavy ? - awaiting command posting
3. ATAG_Berserker ? - awaiting command posting
4. ATAG_YoTheGuy
5. ATAG_Torian ? - awaiting command posting
6. ATAG_Ribbs
7. ATAG_Invictus
8.



I accept the posting Sir

:woohoo:

[71st_AH_Eagle]

Blue bomber command for me please. I want to get back into the loop of using the 88's and the 111's again.

[ATAG_Knuckles]

RAF Bomber command for me

[Kendy for the State]

I'd like to fly red intercept if there's a Hurricane sqaudron.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

[No.401_Wolverine]

I'd like to fly red intercept if there's a Hurricane sqaudron.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

There will be Hurricanes if the red team produces them. The division of spits to hurricanes will be dependant on production and player choice. Hurries will be inexpensive to make though so I expect there will be quite a few available.

Teams start off with a mix of all types distributed in a roughly historical way as of Sept 1940.

[Cassius]

Ready to take part in Campaign as blue bomber, but not in this time zone.

[StiC]

I'm happy to go where the RAF needs me. Keep me on escort until the guys upstairs realize I can't hit anything with less than 2 engines.

[450caveman]

Caveman here i will be flying Bomber

[|450|Devil]

|450|Devil registering for RAF bomber

[=Gustav_Kranke=]

Ready to take part in Campaign as blue bomber, but not in this time zone.

[9./JG52_Meyer]

9./JG52 , When it comes to server 2 (GMT) :thumbsup:

[ATAG_Freya]

9./JG52 , When it comes to server 2 (GMT) :thumbsup:

Meyer, we need you to move to North America, please. In the meantime, we'll always have room reserved for 9./JG52 !!

:salute:

[No.401_Wolverine]

Since Cavey's going to be able to play, swap me over to Escort Command.

[Perfesser]

Right now it looks like Luftwaffe Intercept could use a few bodies.
DD_Perfesser and DD_Gothkrieger would be happy to fill any fighter slots you have open.
Might be able to drag another of the DangerDogz out too.

[ATAG_Rush]

RAF Intercept, por favor.

[Diamondaxe]

Atag has once again put together a incredibly interesting mission. I hope it goes as well as the last. I had a great experience and only wish that my video recording software worked. I would like the creators to consider a possible fix for the difficulty in balancing the game. German numbers and production capabilities were stronger than the raf. One thing that hampered production of the more effective tools was hitler amd his pet projects. One of these seemed to be the BF 110. It may be helpful to even require a limited number of these get produced periodically and use up some of the resources. The BF 110 had its limitations. But I can also still be an effective and fun tool. Just this morning I was flying with a very skilled pilots who had spitfires and I was able to down two spitfires in the space of about one minute. I'm not thinking that the BF 110 should take the centerstage by any means. But making a few of them available May augment the gameplay and the historical accuracy. Just something to put in the back of your mind wall the next mission is produced

[No.401_Wolverine]

Atag has once again put together a incredibly interesting mission. I hope it goes as well as the last. I had a great experience and only wish that my video recording software worked. I would like the creators to consider a possible fix for the difficulty in balancing the game. German numbers and production capabilities were stronger than the raf. One thing that hampered production of the more effective tools was hitler amd his pet projects. One of these seemed to be the BF 110. It may be helpful to even require a limited number of these get produced periodically and use up some of the resources. The BF 110 had its limitations. But I can also still be an effective and fun tool. Just this morning I was flying with a very skilled pilots who had spitfires and I was able to down two spitfires in the space of about one minute. I'm not thinking that the BF 110 should take the centerstage by any means. But making a few of them available May augment the gameplay and the historical accuracy. Just something to put in the back of your mind wall the next mission is produced

Hi Diamondaxe,

I'll make sure to include some 110s in the next thing, for sure. In the meantime, have you tried the Ju87? I hear it's a lot of fun!

[Diamondaxe]

Wow wolverine...didnt expect that quick of a response or such quick commitment! Thanks! I do want to partake of this awesome fun. I'm tempted to try my hand at one of the larger bombers just because i've never done it. I want to go with whatever bomber has the best views for the turrets....i think that's the he111 right?

[DRock]

Wow wolverine...didnt expect that quick of a response or such quick commitment! Thanks! I do want to partake of this awesome fun. I'm tempted to try my hand at one of the larger bombers just because i've never done it. I want to go with whatever bomber has the best views for the turrets....i think that's the he111 right?

Hi Diamond.

If you want to learn how to fly/bomb any aircraft, let me know. If you have the time to commit for most of this campaign, join us. It's a lot of fun and very immersive.

Also, the hard work came from Wolverine. The scripting in this mission is incredible, and definitely takes CoD to a whole new level. I can't wait for this to start.


Check out this link, Axe.
http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20739&p=214214&viewfull=1#post214214

[No.401_Wolverine]

Wow wolverine...didnt expect that quick of a response or such quick commitment! Thanks! I do want to partake of this awesome fun. I'm tempted to try my hand at one of the larger bombers just because i've never done it. I want to go with whatever bomber has the best views for the turrets....i think that's the he111 right?

DEFINITELY try one of the larger bombers, and take DRock up on his offer. This campaign is going to depend heavily on bombers. It's the most important role aside from escorting them. I guarantee that if you join this campaign as part of bomber command, all the guys in that group will have your back for sure.

[InvaderZim]

You can pencil me in for Blue bombers. I have a lot of commitments coming up over the next 2 months but will do my best to drop in.

[Diamondaxe]

If a player in a bomber group joins late and is not able to get with at least two other bombers, will he be able to hop into a gunner position?

I'd hate to take up a spot and not make it often enough. My goal is to make at least half the nights...i think i can convince the wife to let me have that much time. I'll get with drock and try to get some bombs on target before the big opening night.

Drock i'll message you and see if my availability will match yours.

[ATAG_Freya]

If a player in a bomber group joins late and is not able to get with at least two other bombers, will he be able to hop into a gunner position?

I'd hate to take up a spot and not make it often enough. My goal is to make at least half the nights...i think i can convince the wife to let me have that much time.

Yeah thats no problem, it's a 4 hour night so plenty of bomber sorties will be going on (2-3? depends if they catch us I guess!) Gunners always welcome if it works out that way, too. I'll keep you on the official list because only players on the list will get access to the team planning thread once the campaign begins. Lot's of time to train, and we'll be making use of all 3 bomber types available!

:salute:

[DRock]

If a player in a bomber group joins late and is not able to get with at least two other bombers, will he be able to hop into a gunner position?

I'd hate to take up a spot and not make it often enough. My goal is to make at least half the nights...i think i can convince the wife to let me have that much time. I'll get with drock and try to get some bombs on target before the big opening night.

Drock i'll message you and see if my availability will match yours.

Start here and make sure you have all of your keys set up.

http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8558

[ATAG_Flare]

Okay, I think I can make it to most of them. Put me in for Red intercept!

[No.401_Hawk]

Confirmed for RAF escort flight.....looking forward to this! Hawk

[ATAG_Septic]

As there's still places and there's no reserve list, I'd like to sign up for Red, any aircraft but prefer Blenheim.

I'm on GMT so might not make it all the way to 5:00am (here) but will make a flask of coffee and certainly manage the first few hours.:thumbsup:

Septic.

[No.401_Wolverine]

A bit of a bump and also some more juicy details about the campaign:

Let's talk about something really exciting: Aircraft Production and Delivery

I can hear all the yawns and 'huh?'s out there. However, this is an important lesson, so listen up! The campaign is going to be won and lost by a team's ability to manage resource distribution. This includes fuel, but we'll get to that in another post.

As we fly, we crash. Crashing your aircraft can have one of several effects. Let's go through them!

Crash and Burn: If you crash in a way that blows up the aircraft, it's toast. The aircraft is lost.

Crash and Safe in Friendly Territory (not at an operational airfield): If you manage to crash land and keep the aircraft from blowing up, then the aircraft will be returned to your airfield of origin as 'unserviceable'. What this means is that the aircraft is saved and being worked on in the shops. At the end of the 4 hour mission, the aircraft is repaired and returned to active combat ready status! Well done! (NOTE: There is a bug with the Hurricane that requires you to 'unlock' the gear before attempting a wheels up crash landing otherwise CloD does not correctly record the crash landing)

Crash and Safe in Friendly Territory (at an operational airfield): If you manage to crash land and keep your aircraft from blowing up, the aircraft will be worked on right away and returned to combat ready status, ready to be flown from the airfield again. This is the benefit of returning to your airfield of origin or to any operational airfield.

What does an 'operational airfield' mean? An operational airfield is one of the 10 airfields that you have (11 if you are on Blue team) to use during the campaign. They are:
RED TEAM
Hornchurch
Eastchurch
Manston
Hawkinge
Biggin Hill
West Malling (Maidstone)
Lympne
Kenley
Redhill
Wilmington

BLUE TEAM
Berk
Tramecourt
Ligescourt
Barly
Boulogne Alprech
Marquise West
Coquelles
Oye-Plage
St-Omer Wizernes
Merville Calonnes
Arras

Safe landings at one of the your team's above airfields will, of course, return the aircraft to combat ready status at that airfield.

NOTE! If you land safely at a friendly airfield that is NOT in the list above, the aircraft will be treated as having had an emergency landing and will be declared unserviceable until the erks can look it over and return it to combat status at the end of the mission. In this way, the aircraft won't be lost, but it will be out of action for a time.

So what does this have to do with production, you may ask. Well, as you can see above, there are plenty of ways to lose your aircraft! Aircraft are not infinite! If you have 6 Spitfires at Hawkinge and 6 players take off and are all lost over the channel, there are no more Spitfires at Hawkinge! This is a huge advantage for the enemy if they are attacking targets in that area. It increases the time you need from detection to interception and makes all targets in that area more vulnerable.

So we replace those aircraft with production.

Under the TAB-4 menu, there is an option (5th in the list) for "Aircraft Production and Delivery". Accessing this option presents you with two more options "Production" and "Delivery".

Production is WHAT is being produced by your industrial sectors.
Delivery is WHERE production aircraft will be delivered when they are produced.

Each of your production sectors can focus on a different type of aircraft. London can make Blenheims while Kenley sector can make Hurricanes, for example. It is very important to be aware of the production capacity of each of your sectors in order to most efficiently use their production (viewable via the Sector Report from the TAB-4 menu). Because bombers and top tier fighters require more production capacity than their lower value alternatives, producing bombers in sectors that have low production capacity is going to yield fewer (if any!) aircraft than if they were being made in a sector with higher capacity.

Delivery is important and can also have an impact on your production for a few reasons. Each sector can deliver to airfields that are within it. Biggin Hill sector can deliver to Biggin Hill, West Malling, or Lympne. Kenley sector can deliver to Kenley, Redhill, or Wilmington. But the capital sector (London or Arras) can only deliver to Sector Headquarters. IE, London can only deliver to Hornchurch, Biggin Hill, or Kenley (or Tramecourt, Marquise West, or Merville if Blue). In this way, if you are producing Spitfires at London, but need them delivered to Manston, you would produce them in London with delivery to Hornchurch. Once delivered, you would need to fly them from Hornchurch to Manston. However, if you produced those Spitfires from Hornchurch Sector, you could deliver them straight to Manston without delay.

Production from each sector takes place half an hour after mission start and then every hour after that, so there are a total of 4 production phases every weekend mission.

Avoid running out of aircraft where you need them! Keep the bean counters on your side! Every aircraft is valuable and the fewer you lose, the fewer you have to account for when producing and delivering new ones.

S!

[ATAG_Bliss]

This looks like a good bit of fun :thumbsup:

Thanks to everyone that put this together. I couldn't imagine the amount of time it took to get a mission like this together.

Good luck everyone! :salute:

[No.401_Wolverine]

So it's a slow Wednesday. Let's talk fuel:

We've already looked at how aircraft and aircraft production will figure into strategy, but now we will look at how fuel distribution will layer on top of all that like a nice fresh dusting of snow. Deadly, inflammable snow.

Each sector has ports that produce fuel. They produce fuel based on the number of port capacity points they have available at the time of sector production (every hour after the first half hour of play). This fuel is deposited into the fuel silos that populate that sector and is then used for each flight that is made from airfields in that sector.

We've mentioned two things here that are important. Fuel ports and fuel silos.

The ports (represented by PORT CRANES) are where production occurs. The enemy can reduce the amount of fuel being produced by taking out the port cranes. This does not, however, reduce the current amount of fuel already deposited into the fuel silos.

The silos which contain the fuel represent two things: the fuel being stored AND the total amount of fuel that can be stored. If the enemy attacks these fuel silos they will first begin to destroy the fuel capacity (how much total fuel a sector can store). When the capacity is reduced to the point that there is no more empty capacity above the amount of fuel being stored, subsequent attacks will not only reduce capacity, but also destroy fuel stores.

IMPORTANT! Each flight from a sector requires fuel. The sector reports (accessed via the TAB-4 menu) will indicate how much fuel (and how much fuel capacity) is available to each sector. If you run out of fuel in a sector all airfields in that sector are shut down for operation until more fuel is produced or transferred!

Transferred? What is this about transfers? Let's talk fuel transfers.

Each sector has a rail component that is representative of the total number of train stations in each sector. Some sectors have a lot of train stations, some sectors only have a few. By accessing the Fuel Transfers menu from the TAB-4 system, you can assign transfers of fuel from one sector to another via the rail system.

It is critical to note that the transfer of fuel will be restricted by the LOWER of the two rail system values between the two sectors involved in the transfer. For example, the Blue team is attempting to transfer fuel from the Calais sector which currently has 100,000 gallons of fuel to the Le Touquet sector which currently has 0 fuel and a fuel capacity of 20,000. The Calais sector currently has a rail system with 30 points and the Le Touquet system currently has a rail system of 5 points. This means that, unless something changes via enemy action, the Calais sector could potentially transfer 3,000 gallons of fuel (30 rail points times 100 gallons). Unfortunately for Le Touquet, their low rail system points means that they can only receive 500 gallons each transfer cycle (until something changes via repairs or more damage).

I'm sure you've realized by now that the capital sector for the Red team, London, does not have any active airfields but it has plenty of ports! You're very clever. I knew that when I met you. This is, of course, correct. London produces and can store quite a lot of fuel while having no airfields or aircraft to use it up. This fuel can be transferred to the three other sectors as needed. Arras also produces and stores fuel, but very very slowly. Production for Arras, as it has no ports, is quite low. Like London, fuel stored in the Arras sector can be transferred out as needed. This is one good example of how the two teams are not symmetrical in their setup. The Red team has different strengths than the Blue team based entirely on the geography of the map. It will be important to learn these differences as you pursue your strategies.

NOTE! Fuel can be transferred TO London and Arras as well! Front line sectors may see their fuel networks attacked regularly. It may be advisable in times of plenty for fuel to be moved away from the front line to the capital sectors in order to build up a reserve that can be transferred in times of need.

So we begin to see the ways in which a team might attack their opponent. Destroy their rail networks and isolate a sector with low fuel production? Take out the major ports and starve the entire enemy force? Or do you take out major industrial areas and hope to hinder the production of aircraft to the point where the enemy can no longer afford to send bombers? Or destroy the enemy's fuel storage facilities so that even if they can produce fuel they have no where to store it? Which targets are easier? Which are well defended?

One thing is clear, however. You will need to commit to your strategy with a long term resolve. None of these systems can be destroyed in a day or even several missions. You'll have to stick to your guns and have faith in your strategy. Look for the subtle signs that it is having an effect. You can stack the dice as best you can, but at the end of the day you still have to throw them!

S!





Please note that the values described here are meant more as an abstract of the systems involved (clearly more than 500 gallons would fit on a single train). These systems have been designed to create the sentiment of the system as opposed to the reality. We do not have nearly as many aircraft or vehicles in the simulation to worry about as reality would dictate, so the system is scaled to the point where it has impact. Realistically, we would be dealing with fuel on the scale of hundreds of thousands of gallons, but we'd also be worried about fueling thousands of aircraft daily (which, we're clearly not).

[No.401_Wolverine]

I feel I should also point out that involvement in these systems (fuel, aircraft production, etc.) is not required to participate in the campaign.

If you want to just fly as part of one of the groups, you can just do that and leave the logistics stuff to others. That's perfectly acceptable!

[ATAG_yotheguy]

Hey when are we starting the separate forums for blue and red?

[ATAG_Freya]

Hey when are we starting the separate forums for blue and red?

I was thinking of waiting a few more days, hopefully some more players will get there name on the sign ups so that they can get access to those forum threads. By the end of this weekend, I will ask Snapper to do the forum voodoo he does so well! Then we can plan our victory in our private bunkers...or something like that.

:salute:

[ATAG_Freya]

This will be running tonight (it's on server 2 now actually)

Join us tonight to check it out, ask questions, or just join in on some great sorties!

see first post for time/details

:salute:

[Kendy for the State]

This will be running tonight (it's on server 2 now actually)

Join us tonight to check it out, ask questions, or just join in on some great sorties!

see first post for time/details

:salute:
What? 1st post says it doesn't start until Feb 27th.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

[ATAG_Freya]

What? 1st post says it doesn't start until Feb 27th.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

Yes sorry, it OFFICIALLY starts on the 27th.

This is still just a 'test' run, although testing is complete we still get together and fly for the fun.

It's a good opportunity for players to get in and see what it's all about, do some flying, get familiar with the program etc etc...

It's open to all, hop in TS (under server 2 section) and say hi

:salute:

[Amazing_Mystico]

Please assign me to Luftwaffe Bomber Command. I promise to crash no more than 4 Ju-88's on take off per mission, which is my all-time record.

[ATAG_Freya]

1st and second posts updated - Reserves list added for players who wish to commit part-time. This is mostly to ensure that they get access to their respective teams planning area so as to keep up to date with important campaign information.

Please get your name on the list if you wish to join in!

:salute:

[Erpr.Gr.210_Mölders]

Please add the Stab I./JG 51 in the LW reserve list.
We are from Europe so we have first to recruit some vampires to be able to play at 2 o'clock in the morning... :)
...but we will try to support this very nice campaign as much as possible providing some pilots, when possible, from time to time.
Give the precedence somehow to US players first due to the fact that actually I do not know who will be our pilots available to play at that hour.
Please add to the LW reserve list the following Stab I./JG 51 pilots:

Stab I./JG 51 - Bär
Stab I./JG 51 - Gallowitsch
Stab I./JG 51 - Mölders
Stab I./JG 51 - Schultz


As said not a promise but we will try to do our best to provide some reserve pilots when possible.
Our best regards to the IL2 Cliffs of Dover community!





Maj Robert Mölders,
Gruppenkommandeur,
Stab I./JG 51

[KushViper]

If I'm not too late, please put me on the Retired/Always available list for: LUFTWAFFE ESCORT COMMAND!

KushViper at your service Sir!

Salute! :salute:

I got all the NutterButters for my team :) :thumbsup:

[ATAG_Freya]

If I'm not too late, please put me on the Retired/Always available list for: LUFTWAFFE ESCORT COMMAND!

KushViper at your service Sir!

Salute! :salute:

I got all the NutterButters for my team :) :thumbsup:

"Like" X 1000

Lol, just sent you a PM too!

Welcome aboard!

[ATAG_Torian]

Sign me up for Luftwaffe Escort pls. Can't make the 27th (28th for me) as I will be flying on real planes that day but hope to make the others as much as possible. Happy to go on reserve list to free up the slot if needed.
Great work Wolvie and others who have made this possible.

[ATAG_Monkeynut]

I'd like to sign up for reds if there are any spots left. Reserves is probably best for me as the late times might make regular flying tricky.

Forgot to say, will fly whatever is required.

[Logan]

Add me to the Red Bomber Command please. I'll go see if any of the other 20thBG pilots have the time to fly as well. :thumbsup:

[Gromit]

Happy to fly whatever reds need but on other timezone, 01:00hrs would mean I have been up for 20hrs before the start, probably fall asleep at the wheel!

[ATAG_Freya]

Happy to fly whatever reds need but on other timezone, 01:00hrs would mean I have been up for 20hrs before the start, probably fall asleep at the wheel!

I'll put you on Red Reserve in case you get insomnia! Unfortunately, there will be no other timezone instance of this campaign at least in the short term.. Perhaps consider sleeping in till noon from now on :D

[No.401_Wolverine]

"Red Reserve"

It sounds like a lovely bottle of wine. Who wouldn't want a little "Red Reserve"?

[Logan]

Add the rest of the 20thBG to the Red Bomber command list:
20thBG_Werewolf
20thBG_Zights
20thBG_Yorktown
And to the reserve list(Might be able to play if the wife lets me)
20thBG_Banshee
20thBG_Mudcat

[Mr pickles]

Hi
If there is any space can I go for red reserve please

Sounds amazing and I'm not too sure if I would be able to commit 100% but would love to get some flying time in :D

[Hening]

Could I please be assigned to LW bomber command? I'm least dangerous to my own team in a JU87.

[No.401_Wolverine]

See the images below for exact details on what things are targets for bombers in the campaign:

MEDIUM AND LARGE FACTORIES:

2079620797

The large factories are worth four times as many points per section destroyed as the medium ones. Factories as a group produce aircraft for each sector independently of one another.

PORT CRANES:

20798

The port cranes are responsible for producing fuel.

FUEL STORAGE SILOS:

20799

These fuel silos store all fuel produced by the port cranes.

RAIL STATIONS:

20800

These rail stations allow for the transfer of fuel between sectors.

Where are these targets? Everywhere! If you find an object that matches the appearance of any of the above, and it is within the contested battle area (AN 27 to BI 27 to BI 13 to AN 13) then it is a valid target. Some will be more difficult to take out than others. Some damage may appear but it will be superficial. Also, be aware that some oil and rail facilities will look different than the above images. Some sites will only be a single oil silo or single rail platform. The images above represent some of the large targets.

NOTE! There are also reports of RADAR stations along the coastline of both England and France. Details are sketchy, but they likely will have SOME impact on the war effort. Perhaps these are valid targets as well.

[ATAG_Knuckles]

Thanks Wolverine: went on that server last Saturday to do some recon and found nothing,(perhaps it wasnt loaded) appreciate the photos I will be studying them



Knuckles

[No.401_Wolverine]

Thanks Wolverine: went on that server last Saturday to do some recon and found nothing,(perhaps it wasnt loaded) appreciate the photos I will be studying them



Knuckles

Remember, you're not going to see 'dots' for these targets. They are the actual map objects that exist on every channel map you've played on, only now they actually count as targets.

[7./JG26_SMOKEJUMPER]

Red Interceptor.

[DD_Squawk]

Another DangerDog applying for Luftwaffe Intercept.

Bitte und Danke. ;)

[RAF_Murmansk]

Blue bomber please.

[No.401_Wolverine]

Thanks everyone for flying tonight! It was a great run and the server held up to it. Lots of interesting engagements.

Now comes the bean counting and figuring out how to adjust tactics for next week.

Particularly enjoyed the big battle off the coast of Deal/Sandwich. I think I will call it "The Battle of Sandwich Bay". Lots of action all the way from Angels 25 down to 10.

A special thanks to the bomber pilots. It's a tough job, but bombs got through for both sides on important targets. Great work!

Big thanks again to ATAG for hosting the map.

Wolverine

[Walsh]

So that's where everyone was last night. If there's still room, can I join Red intercept for next week?

[ATAG_Septic]

Thanks everyone for flying tonight! It was a great run and the server held up to it. Lots of interesting engagements.

Wolverine

Great fun indeed old chap!

Thank-you to you and all the organisers and participants.

Septic.:salute:

[ATAG_Flare]

Thanks everyone for flying tonight! It was a great run and the server held up to it. Lots of interesting engagements.

Now comes the bean counting and figuring out how to adjust tactics for next week.

Particularly enjoyed the big battle off the coast of Deal/Sandwich. I think I will call it "The Battle of Sandwich Bay". Lots of action all the way from Angels 25 down to 10.

A special thanks to the bomber pilots. It's a tough job, but bombs got through for both sides on important targets. Great work!

Big thanks again to ATAG for hosting the map.

Wolverine
That battle really was great! A ton of planes! We were all the way up near Eastchurch where I damaged a Stuka and claimed a probable ju-88 who then wounded me. I barely made it back to Eastchurch before dying of my injuries - but I saved the plane!

Great job blue bombers, us interceptors couldn't really find you until your third raid. Apologies to the Ju-88 in the first raid that I collided with. :recon: It was an accident, I swear!

Overall, great fun! See you all next week!

[Logan]

So that's where everyone was last night. If there's still room, can I join Red intercept for next week?
Yep, go to http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21166 and post. I don't know if this thread will go on every week or a new one will be made each week.

[7./JG26_SMOKEJUMPER]

My name is all in capitols because i crave attention and like taking up space.


Please fix. :P

[Techcuron]

Hello,

Want to join a Blue side with a friend, looks that there is a lack of interceptors, willing to fly interceptors.

JG51_Kloss
JG51_Kartofel

[No.401_Speed (YO-R)]

post deleted

[ATAG_Snapper]

My name is all in capitols because i crave attention and like taking up space.


Please fix. :P

Smoke, pop me a PM with how you want your name to appear. I'll copy 'n paste it into your user profile in a jiffy. :salute:

[No.401_Wolverine]

We still need pilots for Red Intercept and Escort!

Calling all Hurricane and Spitfire pilots capable of putting in at least a few hours on a North American Saturday night!

We need you!


21200

[diziet]

Wish I could take part but the timing doesn't work for me here in Scotland... :-(

[integralanomaly]

Hi
I'll be happy to fly with the Blue bombers again

[ATAG_Freya]

Hi
I'll be happy to fly with the Blue bombers again


RGR DR Flieger, we'll get you up to snuff on things tomorrow, and in forum access too. About time you signed in!

[ATAG_Freya]

http://i1316.photobucket.com/albums/t611/sarah7715/WARMACHINE_zpsx2mtag0q.jpg

Mission 2 tonight @ 8pm Eastern NA

Check in to your team Forum areas for briefings


Good luck to all !

:salute:

[Gh0st]

Please sign me up as a stand by for the Luftwaffe. I thin the Mrs. and I will go to the movies w/o the kid but if I can't fly.. Maybe I can help plan missions?

[9./JG52 Reinhart]

Signing up for Luftwaffe intercept.

[Ruff]

1 for intercept on Axis (blue)

[Kmac31]

I would like to join blue fighters escort or intercept

[tgif]

That battle really was great! A ton of planes! We were all the way up near Eastchurch where I damaged a Stuka and claimed a probable ju-88 who then wounded me. I barely made it back to Eastchurch before dying of my injuries - but I saved the plane!

Great job blue bombers, us interceptors couldn't really find you until your third raid. Apologies to the Ju-88 in the first raid that I collided with. :recon: It was an accident, I swear!

Overall, great fun! See you all next week!



AHHH it was me you are of course forgiven surprised the heck out of me at the time hehehe

TGIF

[|450|boom]

Sign me up with the red bomber command reserve
|450|boom

[Target]

G'day all, could I please be added to the red escort flight, keen to join jusst trying to sort out a Trac Ir centring issue.

[AKA_Hangten]

S! all

I would like too join the blue side as bomber command or escort. must learn the dark side of the force :) plus the aka squad is fling the Sow campaign with the Blue side

S! AKA_Hangten

[ATAG_Freya]

S! all

I would like too join the blue side as bomber command or escort. must learn the dark side of the force :) plus the aka squad is fling the Sow campaign with the Blue side

S! AKA_Hangten


Got you in intercept list, Hangten. But you can go bomber or escort too - it's just that there was room on the list..

[No.401_Wolverine]

More Red fighter pilots please!

[No.401_Wolverine]

Seriously, we do need more fighters. Especially in Escort. We're nice guys! Really! We don't bite!

[Squiz]

Could |450|Boom have access to the RED CAMPAIGN DISCUSSION (PRIVATE) forum please.

Squiz

[DRock]

A message to the Allies:

Your Henge of Stone is kaput. Resistance is futile. We will officially be accepting your surrender later today.

A mass of Ju-88 'transport' planes will be 'delivering' many loads of 'blankets' and 'food rations' for your desparate people. Please allow these 'transport' planes through your skies, unmolested. Do not be afraid of these planes.

You fought well, Tommy, but standing down is your only option.


Respectfully,

Axis:salute:

[ATAG_Knuckles]

do we get beer ???:-)

[DRock]

do we get beer ???:-)

Yes, lots of beer, but it's warm.

[ATAG_Freya]

Daylight saving time occured in North america too recently, I haven't done the math (can't)

The mission starts in 2 HOURS from this post...(and 7 minutes or so)

:salute:

[Timber]

Hey Freya,

Can you sign me up for bomber command?

Please and thanks.

[ATAG_Freya]

Hey Freya,

Can you sign me up for bomber command?

Please and thanks.

I'd be happy to! Allied or Axis? axis axis pleaaassee be axis

:)

[No.401_Wolverine]

It's clear he wishes to join Allied. RAF Bomber Command has a brand new Blenheim waiting for you.

[Timber]

I'd be happy to! Allied or Axis? axis axis pleaaassee be axis

:)

Axis, thank you.

Sorry that was assumed.

[ATAG_Freya]

It's clear he wishes to join Allied. RAF Bomber Command has a brand new Blenheim waiting for you.

Well, we have a duct-taped, beat-up, glued together Ju-88 waiting for him now. Battle tested with A-1 reliability, and awaiting it's second sortie. Where did you say that new Blenheim was from? We'll send Timber over to... inspect it.

:)

[No.401_Wolverine]

Little do you know, he is our double-agent and will be sabotaging your efforts.

[ATAG_Flare]

When does Blue surrender after that whacking last day? :-P

[DRock]

That 6 m/s wind is really hard on the Ju88's taxiing. Almost impossible.

22 km/h wind is excessive. High alt bombing is also pointless. That pretty much throws our He111s out of the window.

@ Flare. You had double our numbers for the first hour of the game. What do you expect to happen?

[ATAG_Flare]

That 6 m/s wind is really hard on the Ju88's taxiing. Almost impossible.

22 km/h wind is excessive. High alt bombing is also pointless. That pretty much throws our He111s out of the window.

@ Flare. You had double our numbers for the first hour of the game. What do you expect to happen?

Agree about the wind. Even my Spitfire could hardly turn one direction in that wind.

I didn't know about the numbers difference, I only showed up an hour and a half in to the night . . .

[DRock]

Agree about the wind. Even my Spitfire could hardly turn one direction in that wind.

I didn't know about the numbers difference, I only showed up an hour and a half in to the night . . .

When the map flipped, I was the only one with 5 bomber pilots. Since a bomber raid would have been suicide, the guys started transfers. I took off from Boulogne and couldn't track the bombers until they came out from Calais. The hits on 'Calais Sector' was the give away. I had a hell of a time getting guns on those 2-3 Blenheims with that lag, and with those escorts chasing me.: )

The Spit would be another plane hard to taxi in stronger wings, but the Ju88 is particularly tough due to the way the engines throttle up. The throttle isn't very responsive, so you end up sort of pulsating. Up, down, up, down,... . Once the engines kick in, they are very powerful.
Taxiing without the ability to make a right turn is an example of the difficulty.


This is really a numbers game. Which ever team brings the pilots, wins the night.

Maybe a weekly sign up is nessesary, to establish more accurate numbers before the match?


~S~

[No.401_Wolverine]

The wind was definitely up for that one. Not above IRL limits for these types, though. We had some difficulty in the Spitfires for sure. That is definitely the high limit for the wind in the mission. The wind speed never gets above 5.9m/s. I believe that we had 5.8 that day. If it's not something you're used to flying with, it can be quite an eye opener. We've been using winds that vary to that speed for a long time now, though, and with practice it's manageable.

Sorry you were getting lag, Drock. I heard from Freya after. Didn't notice anything really on our side except for a bit of frame rate drop near Boulogne when the fires were going.

There was a definite numbers mismatch near the beginning but it appeared to even out a bit after about 30 to 45 min. Hopefully this is just a factor of the timezone craziness at this time of year getting people mixed up on the start time.

[No.401_Wolverine]

One of the Luftwaffe bombers made an absolutely amazing drop on some port cranes in Hornchurch sector right at the end of the evening. Timber maybe? Got at least 7 or 8 in one drop! Best port attack I've seen so far on both sides. Those cranes are tough to crack.

Unfortunate that there's no way he would have been able to get that bomber back to France before mission end :P

[ATAG_Freya]

One of the Luftwaffe bombers made an absolutely amazing drop on some port cranes in Hornchurch sector right at the end of the evening. Timber maybe? Got at least 7 or 8 in one drop! Best port attack I've seen so far on both sides. Those cranes are tough to crack.

Unfortunate that there's no way he would have been able to get that bomber back to France before mission end :P

Yeah I saw that from my burning wreckage! Timber - our new port crane specialist. Unfortunately I'm not sure if that counted towards the stats that close to mission end..beauty of a hit though!


:thumbsup:

[No.401_Wolverine]

That's true as well, even the hits may not have recorded. Generally, your best option is to complete all attacks before the fifteen minute warning shows up. After that, all bets are off....

[Berserker]

Could some please advise why Red has Spit 1a and Blue don't have the equivalent to that which would be 109 E4N ?
Seems a bit one sided.

Sent from my Samsung Note 5

[No.401_Wolverine]

Could some please advise why Red has Spit 1a and Blue don't have the equivalent to that which would be 109 E4N ?
Seems a bit one sided.

Sent from my Samsung Note 5

Do you mean IIa or Ia?

This is addressed in the first post of this thread, but would you like to discuss it more?

From my observation, the one-sidedness of the last two weeks has more to do with the attrition of blue pilots and the fortuitous positioning of red aircraft when engaging. The first few weeks showed some very comparable results of kills/losses for both teams.

What are the specific situations that you feel are resulting in one-sided gameplay? Are they directly attributable to the aircraft and are you confident that you know which aircraft type you were engaging at the time?

[ATAG_Flare]

Could some please advise why Red has Spit 1a and Blue don't have the equivalent to that which would be 109 E4N ?
Seems a bit one sided.

Sent from my Samsung Note 5

Surely you mean IIa . . . The Ia is definitely inferior to the E4/n. The IIa and the E4/n are pretty equally matched, but you do have to realise that (as posted in another thread in the forums) that there were not many E4/ns produced. Also the IIa is Red's hardest aircraft to produce. We've just been lucky lately getting to use them. The numbers difference is key too. It would be nice to see more blue pilots.

You also have to remember that we don't use the IIas all the time. We actually used Hurricanes the other day . . .

[Berserker]

Do you mean IIa or Ia?

This is addressed in the first post of this thread, but would you like to discuss it more?

From my observation, the one-sidedness of the last two weeks has more to do with the attrition of blue pilots and the fortuitous positioning of red aircraft when engaging. The first few weeks showed some very comparable results of kills/losses for both teams.

What are the specific situations that you feel are resulting in one-sided gameplay? Are they directly attributable to the aircraft and are you confident that you know which aircraft type you were engaging at the time?

My typo, yes I mean the IIa and yes I know what aircraft we were engaging, I'm not dumb.

Mate I love your mission but I'm sorry I feel that due to the aircraft variants I will just stick to flying server one as I believe putting E3s and E4s against IIa's is a no win situation. (just my thoughts and I not looking for a argument nor do I mean to offend, sorry if I have) :salute:

[Berserker]

Surely you mean IIa . . . The Ia is definitely inferior to the E4/n. The IIa and the E4/n are pretty equally matched, but you do have to realise that (as posted in another thread in the forums) that there were not many E4/ns produced. Also the IIa is Red's hardest aircraft to produce. We've just been lucky lately getting to use them. The numbers difference is key too. It would be nice to see more blue pilots.

You also have to remember that we don't use the IIas all the time. We actually used Hurricanes the other day . . .

@ Flare, Yes mate I do mean the IIa, typo by me on my phone.

[No.401_Wolverine]

Just a few points about the IIa.

The IIa is produced by red at the rate of approximately 24 aircraft per weekend if we are producing IIa and nothing else. This would be at the expense of all other types.

The IIa is not the most expensive aircraft for red. That honour is held by the Blenheim, therefore, replacing all the lost Blenheims is taking up a LOT of our production.

Damage to red infrastructure has so far been limited to Rail, Ports, and Fuel Storage, none of which has an impact on red production of aircraft.

A little math (sorry for the loose lips, guys):

Red lost 16+ Blenheims alone on Apr 2nd. To replace those aircraft takes 3 production rounds for us, leaving us with only one production round to produce IIa aircraft. That's 6 IIa aircraft maximum. Blenheim losses have been pretty consistent over the last few weeks if not improving, so we're looking at an approximate production of 6 IIas per weekend. So, 36 IIa aircraft since campaign start.

I can say with certainty that it wouldn't take much damage to red factories to reduce that 24 max IIa production to 16 per weekend. Coupled with the requirement to replace Blenheims plus the fact that Blenheims are more expensive, and you're looking at a replacement rate of 4 or fewer IIa aircraft per weekend.

Without going into too many details (already done that, haven't I), I don't think we have as many IIa aircraft as you think we do. If you're basing assumptions on our levels based on blue's production capacity, then think again. Red aircraft production capacity is about half what blue has.

***

I'd hate to see you depart us Berserker as you're a lot of fun to have on the team and bring a lot of excitement. I'd tell you to look at the 'IIa situation' more like a puzzle to solve. Work with the tools you have. Let's take a few factors and work with them:

1. Blue has pretty high production centers. You should be able to crank our E4s like crazy (probably a little harder now assuming the code worked as intended on the weekend once we destroyed Calais fuel - sorry about that).

2. The IIa fighters seem to be mostly appearing in the hands of the Interception Command

3. Suitably positioned before engaging, the E4 will do just fine against a IIa.

4. Tab 4-1 Radar will give you the height, heading, strength and intercept on enemy aircraft above a certain height.

What I would try is a big fighter sweep made to look like a bomber raid. Get 12 109s together and force Intercept to come after you in the IIas. That'll be a 2 on 1 fight that even the IIa will have trouble with. If you can do that a few times while still maintaining our Blenheim losses, we'll soon start running out of IIas.

The campaign calls for bomber missions and the end goal is destroying London / Arras, but how you get there is going to be entirely dependant on what your problems are today. If the IIa is the problem, stop throwing 88s into the grinder and deal with the IIa first.

So the problem really might just be lack of pilots to work with. I did say this was going to be hard and there were going to be good days and bad days. Hope you'll keep playing. I think if the blue team can find the pilots it needs to adjust strategies, things could be turned around.

[Berserker]

Until TF5 is released and fix the atmospheric bug the IIa will all ways out do Blue no matter how many 109s are in the air (just my 2 cents worth)
Enjoy while we're stuck with it.

Sent from my Samsung Note 5

[ATAG_Freya]

http://media.web.britannica.com/eb-media/55/71355-004-FE74276E.jpg

We're out of pilots.

[ATAG_yotheguy]

Just my thoughts

What he has made is outstanding, and would be a great deal of fun all around if we could have 2x the blue players. Like I said its a domino affect, you make it just a little red biased (eg. 2A/1A vs E4/E3), and you will not have a blue team to fly against. With the atmospheric bug where the red can climb to 40,000ft and the e-3 can maybe get to 6.5km, and then become snails at 4.2km.

I look at it like an experiment. We ran the experiment and found out that it didn't work. Successful experiment!! 21986

I say lets brush ourself off, make some small changes, and try again.

[No.401_Wolverine]

IIa or E4/N. Hurricane or E1. If one side doesn't bring pilots to the party, they're not going to do well. Further to that, I'm not going to be able to draw any real conclusions about the aircraft set in a situation where 6 IIas are fighting 3 E4s. It could be 6 Hurricanes and the results would probably be the same.

The first few weeks when we had full teams on each side we had pretty even results. That's all I can go with at this point.

There is absolutely no way to make a campaign or map that isn't leaning one way or the other in some small degree. All we can do as mission builders is attempt to minimize that lean as much as possible. Blue has cannon, has massive bomb loads, has huge production capacity, has all these things. Maybe the IIa vs the E4 is balanced more to red, but I feel that if the blue also has E4/N then it doesn't just tip that one element, it tips all those other elements.

But look at it this way too. This round is an 'experiment'? We put the E4/N in and then blue clobbers red because blue pilots feel vindicated and start showing up in numbers and red stops coming. Does that make that round an 'experiment' too?

In any campaign I've participated in, I've never stopped fighting to argue design flaws until the final whistle. Not publically, anyway. Opinions between friends outside of the competition, maybe, but when it's game time I fight and try to win. That's the best thing you can do as a player in a campaign because it gives the designer REAL information about balance and setup. If people don't fight til the end, and deal with these issues afterwards, there's NO reliable information and the red v blue fix is in debate just goes on and on and on.

I can't make a campaign more balanced if I can't get reliable information about how the campaign I have right now works.

Get the blue pilots to come out, get them to fight it out, and I can make a real conclusion about IIa vs E4 with which to make changes to anything else I make in the future.

Or you can surrender to make it all stop, but that doesn't take anything away from Red's victory in my mind. Red found a way to get at key infrastructure. That was with Blenheims, Ias and Hurricanes. Escort flew IIas a total of 5 times in the last 6 weeks and on three of those flights we didn't even encounter enemies.

[Kendy for the State]

It requires more teamwork, but we can definitely get the job done with Hurri's!


Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

[No.401_Wolverine]

I guess what I'm basically trying to say is that two out of six weekends of heavy losses while undermanned is not a good indicator for me that the IIa is the problem here.

If blue and red want to have a 'IIa vs E4' battle, I'll happily participate in trials to discover more about that particular dynamic, but they would need to be heavily moderated and conditions very specific to get good data (tracks made, etc.). Even then, disparate pilot skill makes much of the results debatable still.

I perhaps should also make clear that I accept the argument that the IIa is on paper the better aircraft against the E4. There are far more factors involved in the balance of a large campaign like this than just the fighter aircraft involved, however.

[Kendy for the State]

Seems like there is always someone who only wants to fly the uber planes. Back when I flew IL2 1946 back on the Warbirds server there were always a few people who would only fly the best planes, showing no particular loyalty to nation or type. If the best plane on the map was the N1K they would fly blue so they could have it... if the best plane on the map was a P51, they would fly red. I have a soft spot for the F4F, even though it was a dog compared to other aircraft on those maps, so thats what I flew. I would fly the A6M2-N because it was a fun challenge to go up against Corsairs in a float plane. A victory in an inferior plane is, to me, much more satisfying than ruling the skies in the fastest, most powerfull machine.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

[ATAG_yotheguy]

Hey Wolverine, I just want to state in bold Thank you for what you have done.


IIa or E4/N. Hurricane or E1. If one side doesn't bring pilots to the party, they're not going to do well. Further to that, I'm not going to be able to draw any real conclusions about the aircraft set in a situation where 6 IIas are fighting 3 E4s. It could be 6 Hurricanes and the results would probably be the same.

You are right, on that point. I still don't think you are seeing the the underlining problem here. Why is it 6vs3? Why is there no one that wants to fly blue? Do you rely think it because all of us that CAN fly blue just suck that bad? And yes it is much harder to fly blue, coming from someone who flys ALL planes in this great sim.

By experiment I meant could we attract enough blue pilots to make things even and fun for all? I would have to say NO


But look at it this way too. This round is an 'experiment'? We put the E4/N in and then blue clobbers red because blue pilots feel vindicated and start showing up in numbers and red stops coming. Does that make that round an 'experiment' too?

Do you think just adding the E4/N would scare off the fragile red pilots?

We found out quickly with "Titans At Twenty-Five" the 2A is far far better then the E4/N in this game.

I like to look at something like this from both sides. eg. Would you be willing to change sides as it is? All the red guys can fly blue, and all the blues guys can fly red. I don't think there is anyone on red that would go for that.


I can't make a campaign more balanced if I can't get reliable information about how the campaign I have right now works.

That's right, but we can't get reliable data if there isn't any one that want's to fly blue.

Like I said I would be willing to try again with some changes, but till then I will find something else to do on Sat evenings.:salute:

[DRock]

A few more concerns.

-Lower the wind. High winds make altitude bombing next to impossible. That's why we haven't used the He-111.

-make radar equal on both sides. Range and altitude.

-add E-4/Ns, 110s, BR20s, and G50s.

-if possible, remove Tab 7-1.

-equal teams. If more wont fly blue, red numbers must be capped.

-slow repairs down. If bombers don't see their progress having an effect, they will lose interest.


Just to add, I think what you have created here is brilliant, Wolverine. It just needs to be tweaked a little bit.

You have to balance fun and historic value to keep pilots here.


~S~


Over 23,000, Spit IIa rules the sky. A very big advantage.

[ATAG_Septic]

I haven't been able attend every week but I'm able to switch to Blue and make sure I stay awake, if that would help at all?

I'm confident that Red Command will believe that I have very little understanding of the strategy and that "mum's the word" anyway.

Septic

[No.401_Wolverine]

I'm trying to find out from the intercept guys about combat above 20,000 ft. I know that Escort has, to date, had one encounter at 20,000+ that we did not do well out of. When I know more I'll comment more about the IIa issue, but my impression from my recollections is that most of the action happening is below 20,000 where the Ia and IIa begin to equal out and on the deck where the Ia is the better choice.

Thanks for the comments DRock. A few points from me on them:

The wind can be reduced. The max wind at 5.9 is not great for high altitude, no. More troubling is that the Ju88s can't seem to taxi properly? Anyway, I could potentially reduce it the max to make it easier for people.

Part of the reason there's a 5-day forcast is for the bombers to plan their operations accordingly as they would have. If you use the 5-day forcast and next week's mission shows moderate winds, then maybe don't plan that high level bombing raid. But if it shows light winds, you should be good to go.

Have you been designing your bomber missions in this way? I'm not sure if the system isn't working or if the missions being planned are just not appropriate for the wind of the day since I don't have access to your mission plans and I haven't been flying Intercept.

I've been looking at how the radar has been working and I agree that some adjustments would be made for the next version of a campaign like this.

Tab 7-1 is something I desperately want to remove, but can't. I either don't have the correct access to game files, or I don't have the skills necessary. It has been proven doable, but how easy it is to do and undo, I don't know. Presumably because the ATAG server 2 uses Tab 7-1 during training missions etc, if the removal of it is cumbersome, then I doubt there's any way to remove it. Possibly to trick it, though. I have discussed this with Freya.

Capping teams is always troublesome. Initially it looked like we were going to have to cap Blue. My hope was that if one team was in trouble, or needing more pilots, that they would be able to recruit others into the team, even if temporarily, to shore themselves up. That doesn't seem to have occurred. I'm not sure what the solution is. Designing something like this has to also take into account how many players are fighting it out, which leads to the point you make about the bombing.

Repairs are pretty slow as it is. It's 5 points per week for each target resource and 1 point for capital areas. It took 6 weeks of heavy damage to Calais Fuel to take it down. The problem here isn't the damage or repair, it's the fact that Red resource concentrations are near London, and Blue resources are on the coastline. Red was working with 1,000lbs of bombs. It would have been taken down a lot faster with 88s, that's for sure. The problem for Blue to solve was always going to be getting bombers to London area. Knocking out radar systems would have helped, of course, but without the removal of 7-1.... Definitely a series of interconnected systems that needs some thought and adjustments. Again, I had assumed that 7-1 was going to be removed, so that's my fault.

[ATAG_Colander]

Personal opinion about the high altitude fights...
If the blues know (or think) that IIa's are in the air, they will not risk getting up where the spit rules and will try to get underneath. That's what many bombers do in server 1.

If they have a matching plane, they will climb as much as they can. Still, the IIa can get higher than the 4N but at least the difference is not that big.

What would be lovely is if there was no time set on the mission so the red side didn't know when the blue side was going to take off. This would force the reds to stay on ground waiting instead of up high since the fuel lasts them almost a full mission. But, we know how boring it would be for the reds to be sitting there doing nothing for 2 hours, waiting for the blue side to appear :D.

[ATAG_Dave]

An observation from someone who has not taken part - if part of the issue is player numbers (& specifically getting a sensible balance thereof) then might it be possible to find a time for this event that would work for both North American based players and (say) European based players...?

[Gh0st]

All said and done.. I enjoyed running into 7 Blenheims on the deck over the weekend. I would like to request access to the Blue section or at least the mission Brief so that I can start planning. :devilish:


Thanks.
Gh0st

[No.401_Wolverine]

What would be lovely is if there was no time set on the mission so the red side didn't know when the blue side was going to take off. This would force the reds to stay on ground waiting instead of up high since the fuel lasts them almost a full mission. But, we know how boring it would be for the reds to be sitting there doing nothing for 2 hours, waiting for the blue side to appear :D.

It would certainly be interesting if this tactic was used, and certainly within the bounds of the rules. Blue or Red are under no obligation to launch their missions as soon as the server rolls over. A larger area of play would help too since it's not a smart idea to put your intercept force at altitude over Manston if the raid ends up coming in over the Isle of Wight.

Something that would be ideal for campaigns like this too would be the ability by the server to disable the aircraft identification on the net stats. It would help with the element of surprise. If you see several players in 88s and a bunch in e4s, it's pretty obvious that a raid is being mounted. If those were hidden, anything could be happening (fighter sweep, raid, waiting, etc.).

[ATAG_Snapper]

All said and done.. I enjoyed running into 7 Blenheims on the deck over the weekend. I would like to request access to the Blue section or at least the mission Brief so that I can start planning. :devilish:


Thanks.
Gh0st

You now have access to the Blue Campaign Room. :salute:

Just scroll down the forum and you will see it.

[9./JG52 gr00ve]

An observation from someone who has not taken part - if part of the issue is player numbers (& specifically getting a sensible balance thereof) then might it be possible to find a time for this event that would work for both North American based players and (say) European based players...?

this!

i flew first couple of missions, i missed last one. Unfortunately its too late for us europeans. its hard to be focused at 3am...if it only starts like 2 hours earlier, it would attract more players.



regarding spit2a vs E4

either remove 2a so we can have spit 1a & hurries vs. E3 & E4 which is IMO fair match

or

place limit on number of top planes allowed to use in campaign. for example, we can have 2xspit 2a & 2xE4-N allowed, and no more can be produced until those are operational. also production and replacing destroyed aircrafts should take much longer considering our numbers and that we play only once in a week.

or

we can just make gentlemens agreement and fly and fight below contrails.

[No.401_Wolverine]

Unfortunately, not all interested North American pilots can play during hours that fit for European players, even on weekends. And European hours don't really work out for Australian players.

This is an issue we have always had. I had hoped more of the NA players who fly on ATAG would take an interest and participate.

For European hours, I highly recommend the SoW campaign server for something along these lines of gameplay. It's highly populated with players on both sides during European hours.

I had hoped to offer something for the rest of us who simply can't make those events. Perhaps there just aren't enough interested community players in this timezone? I don't know.

[Kendy for the State]

I suspect a lot of the regular users aren't even aware of the War Machine campaign, as many probably don't spend a lot of time reading the forums. Maybe the regular server could flash an in-game advertisement once in awhile. "Hey pilots, check out our War Machine campaign starting at 8pm EST on Saturday nights!" Short and sweet.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

[ATAG_Flare]

I suspect a lot of the regular users aren't even aware of the War Machine campaign, as many probably don't spend a lot of time reading the forums. Maybe the regular server could flash an in-game advertisement once in awhile. "Hey pilots, check out our War Machine campaign starting at 8pm EST on Saturday nights!" Short and sweet.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

Paging PanTast . . .

That's a great idea.

[No.401_Wolverine]

This issue has all been boiling over in my brain this whole week and I've been losing sleep, so I'm just going to change E4 to E4/N and raise the price a tiny bit.

I can also change E3 to E3/B if that interests Blue at all. If the results of the past 6 weeks are in question then let's test the jabo versions and find out what effect they have on this ecosystem.

I'll reduce the wind max to 4.9 instead of 5.9. It'll still be a variable, so the average will be lower. The russians proved to me that they can bomb just fine at altitude with the settings we've been using these last few weeks (go check out their videos of the Finest Hour map), so I'm not willing to sacrifice the variety and interesting puzzles to solve for the sake of easy bombing. It SHOULD be hard.

Hope to have these fixes for this weekend, but might take until next since I'm getting a late start on it.... Sorry.

[ATAG_Freya]

This issue has all been boiling over in my brain this whole week and I've been losing sleep, so I'm just going to change E4 to E4/N and raise the price a tiny bit.

I can also change E3 to E3/B if that interests Blue at all. If the results of the past 6 weeks are in question then let's test the jabo versions and find out what effect they have on this ecosystem.

I'll reduce the wind max to 4.9 instead of 5.9. It'll still be a variable, so the average will be lower. The russians proved to me that they can bomb just fine at altitude with the settings we've been using these last few weeks (go check out their videos of the Finest Hour map), so I'm not willing to sacrifice the variety and interesting puzzles to solve for the sake of easy bombing. It SHOULD be hard.

Hope to have these fixes for this weekend, but might take until next since I'm getting a late start on it.... Sorry.

!

To change not one, but 2 types of a/c !! I know how much time that is going to take you! (lots, holy crap lots!) Don't rush it, if we didn't have e/3B's for not this but the next weekend, we'd be OK with that. (hehe, I don't suppose asking for 110's (with bombs) instead would be too much, would it?)

Seriously though, thanks. That's a lot of work and I think this may give the Luftwaffe a 2'nd windwaffe. I hope this helps attract some more 109 flyers, cause blue team needs them. I mean who doesn't want to shoot down guys like Snapper, Deacon, Walsh, Rush, Kendy, Flare, Wolverine, Speed, Septic, Squiz, and the Blenny drivin' maniacs from the 20th....and more? ......yikes what a list. Congrats on red's efforts thus far on the campaign. Well done. However...

We will be standing by, awaiting your surrender. :getaway:

:salute:

[No.401_Wolverine]

Worrying about people not having fun or thinking that I'm showing favoritism tires me out more than coding to 5am....

Okay, summing up:

E4 to E4/N with price increase
E3 to E3/B with small price increase
Ju87 to Me110C7 with price increase
Wind Max to 4.9 from 5.9

Under these changes, any aircraft that you have at airfields will automatically be 'upgraded' to the new type.

I think I can make it happen, but the code won't be pretty....

What I can't do is add additional aircraft on top. THAT's a big job that would have to wait as it affects so many pieces of the puzzle. All I'm really doing here is swapping out the aircraft name in various places so that the correct aircraft is offered for spawn and indicated in menus. Still a fairly large job - and very very very very very repetitive. I've always been meaning to make a little tool that'll do this for me, but never get around to it.

CLARIFICATION FOR RULES:

E3's carrying bombs count as BOMBERS for the rule of 3 (must have at least 3 109 E3/Bs with bombs in the group en route to same target)
110s carrying bombs count as BOMBERS for the rule of 3. (must have at least 3 110s with bombs in the group en route to same target)



It's just as well...I find it easier to shoot down a 110 than a Stuka...

[ATAG_Ribbs]

Wolverine...Thank you for being willing to make some changes. That's all we were hoping for. We love what you have created, and the fact that from scratch you are this close to balance is truly amazing. So many things factor in! We all know this is a work in progress, and we try and remember that as we are playing this campaign. The more information we can give you the better you can make decisions on wether to tweek something. To really dial it in.. I think at some point you will need to play both sides and try and stay objective in between, just to see what we are dealing with also. To be honest, I think we need to address the low player count and server lag issues before we will get a true idea of how the damage infrastructure you have set up is working like it was intended. Adding the E4n was a good move and hopefully removing custom skins for server lag issues is a great start. I hope it will keep the players we now have, and interest new players as well. I think our biggest problem is that once the Campaign started..the recruitment process all but stopped..and I think that is biting us hard now. So what about this idea for bringing the Europeans into the game. Have a European sign up sheet just like we had in their preferred time zone. Then run the server at our time and we play like we normally do. At the end of our session the server tracks the stats and damage occurred. Then when the server starts whenever the Europeans decide..it starts from where we left off. It would be the same when we picked it back up the next time. Preferably a few days or so in between so that damage assessment and planning can happen. Is this possible? I'm just trying to think of a way to bring them in also. 2 instances of the server running seems the only logical way. It also seems if it's a little unbalanced like it is now..it might balance itself out in the long run that way. Thoughts?

[No.401_Wolverine]

Hi Ribbs,

I'd very much like to try the campaign from the other side. My only fear is that I am even more hopeless in a 109 than I am in a Spitfire! No manner of /N /O /P or /Z would help me. If there are pilots who feel comfortable on both sides, I would very much hope they would trade places for any possible next run. That's, as you say, a great way to get some more info about the balance and the feel of each side.

A European run would possibly work. The map could be started 4 hours earlier and simply let it roll twice. So, 4pm to 8pm would be one 'day' of the mission, and then 8pm to 12pm would be the second 'day', and so on. Recruitment would be required to make sure we had enough players. One thing that might hinder this, though, is that the SoW setting draws a lot of players from the European zone and I don't think they'd want to switch horses. It's a very impressive campaign they have and I'd feel guilty pulling anyone away (if we even could!).

We could move the server start time from 8pm to 6pm possibly, but there are probably people who would not be able to make it for the start time and people who wouldn't be able to stay to the end.

No matter how we slice it, people will end up being cut out. Would moving it 1 hour forward to 7pm help at all?

[Kendy for the State]

I'd be willing to try flying blue... how are the controls of a 109 different from a Spit or Hurri? I'd need to add an axis for oil cooler, and I guess the 109 has aileron trim instead of rudder, right? Can't do it this weekend, unfortunately, as I'll be out of town Saturday night.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

[ATAG_Colander]

I'd be willing to try flying blue... how are the controls of a 109 different from a Spit or Hurri? I'd need to add an axis for oil cooler, and I guess the 109 has aileron trim instead of rudder, right? Can't do it this weekend, unfortunately, as I'll be out of town Saturday night.


109 does not have rudder trim, only elevator.
The oil rad you can control with the mouse, normally you can open it fully and leave it there unless you need some extra 5kph.

About how different the 109 is from a spit/hurri? the controls are not that different but the way of flying is. You need to be gentle with every move as it drops E like crazy.

Also, you will probably need two keys for shooting (Nose guns and cannons/wing guns).

Besides this, the 109 has independent wheel brakes.

[Kendy for the State]

All I heard was Cannons.

Mmmmmmm...cannons!

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

[ATAG_Ribbs]

Hi Ribbs,

I'd very much like to try the campaign from the other side. My only fear is that I am even more hopeless in a 109 than I am in a Spitfire! No manner of /N /O /P or /Z would help me. If there are pilots who feel comfortable on both sides, I would very much hope they would trade places for any possible next run. That's, as you say, a great way to get some more info about the balance and the feel of each side.

A European run would possibly work. The map could be started 4 hours earlier and simply let it roll twice. So, 4pm to 8pm would be one 'day' of the mission, and then 8pm to 12pm would be the second 'day', and so on. Recruitment would be required to make sure we had enough players. One thing that might hinder this, though, is that the SoW setting draws a lot of players from the European zone and I don't think they'd want to switch horses. It's a very impressive campaign they have and I'd feel guilty pulling anyone away (if we even could!).

We could move the server start time from 8pm to 6pm possibly, but there are probably people who would not be able to make it for the start time and people who wouldn't be able to stay to the end.

No matter how we slice it, people will end up being cut out. Would moving it 1 hour forward to 7pm help at all? I really believe we need to post a European sign up sheet and see what kind of interest it draws. If it's good enough to warrant the server running in their time slot, then it would work great. I think if it could be split by a few days..it would work better so that we could monitor the damages inflicted and plan our statgies before the server runs again. Splitting the days like you said would be a good idea...when our slot runs it would be a day, and then when their alot runs it would be the next day..and so on. How hard would it be to create that Wolverine? If it's not a ton of work I say let's push with that option by seeing how the sign ups go?

Our first major hurdle is getting player numbers up...otherwise we will never know if the infrastructure is on point...or what tweaks need to be made. After that..we will have a better idea of what's going on.

Cheers

[No.401_Wolverine]

What you suggest is no work at all for me. It already functions that way, we simply run the server mission twice a week instead of once and alternate the times that it starts.

I don't know what the best time to run it would be for European friendly is though.

It would definitely require that the people playing at the different time zones keep detailed track of their losses and accomplishments so that the next crew could plan accordingly. Those stats are recorded in game, but currently require an individual to transpose them to the forum.

The data is stored currently in .txt files within the game mission folder. CloD has the ability to write these things to sql which would be easier to create a page to display (ala the Storm of War guys way) but it's not been a priority for me since the stuff I have been doing is much smaller scale.

[ATAG_Ribbs]

Well hopefully someone that's a higher paygrade than I am will get the ball rolling on a possible sign up sheet for our European brothers. The webpage that SOW has is one of the best features IMO. It would be neat to see something like that here as it is now I find it hard to even know what damage has been done and how bad our loses were. I realize that it's not a high priority right now. When doing a project of this magnitude.. Tweaks and fixes have to be done in small increments.. And some have more priority than others.I'm glad you are open to listening to the masses...I just hope you don't think that the blue side is just a bunch of winers because we're not. We have some great player and mission planners..but it seems everytime we do anything we are intercepted before we hit mid channel....Is it chance or does radar need to be toned down or evened out for balance purposes. It's a fine line between trying to recreate the Battle of Britain, and creating a fun mostly balanced game that both sides enjoy spending their free time playing. I agree with alot of your points in your post to Berserker but I do some thinks need to be tweaked just a little to offset some of the balance issues. We do have to remember that only 30 or so pilots are participateing at the moment.. So hopefully a second run time on the server will help that. All of us appreciate all that you have done for us to partake in this great campaign... I can't wait to see how it plays out! S!

Cheers

[No.401_Wolverine]

The radar issue is a tricky one.

There's some argument to be made for simply making both sides have the same system with the same capabilities.

However, that assumes that the rest of the equation is equal too.

We are working with a large number of systems that are not symmetrical so we have to abandon the concept of EQUALITY and go for the concept of EQUITY.

If we're going by equality, we're assuming everyone starts from the same place and simply divide out the systems equally to ensure a fair setup. Each team gets equal points per industry, equal aircraft building costs, equal # of airfields, equal etc. etc. etc.

But I don't think anyone would argue that Blue and Red start from equal places. The aircraft sets for one are different in many ways. Plus, the concept of this campaign was targets based on the map itself which turned out to have very different building counts for England and France.

So I think we need to go by equity, which means that the division of elements to the teams is by intention not equal in order to bring both teams to a place, when everything is in place, where there is equality.

I probably shouldn't have participated in the campaign personally. Having designed a lot of this stuff and worked with the rest of the stuff for years, I have a pretty good idea of how everything in the campaign works (hopefully) and that means I can help guide our team to using it (radar, etc.) most effectively. Blue has a few guys who had been playing with No.401 on our now cancelled dedicated server for a long time, so I'm hoping that those guys have been helping to organize the use of the various elements available to blue in this campaign (the reports, the radar, etc.). However, not being able to see how that has been handled, I can't one way or the other say that it's being used to full effectiveness.

So, for example, when we talk about the differences in the radar, I know that Red has been using it pretty effectively to nail incoming raids and identify the differences between an intercept flight that's lurking around France and a raid that is forming and getting ready to cross the channel. I don't know if blue is doing this to the same degree of effectiveness with the tools they have. I personally have been watching our bombers form up and make raids along vectors that I know with certainty can be monitored and picked up. I have intentionally been setting the escort above the Radar floor during low level attacks to give Blue a chance to identify us coming in (shhhhhhhh I'm going to be court martialed) so that blue can have something to go on and make a successful interception before we hit target.

(some tips: position intercept pilots at airfields where they can monitor the maximum number of radar stations - do not take off until a raid has been identified to a certain degree of sureness, once a raid is identified, get everyone to spawn in at the most appropriate airfield to conduct the intercept and then scramble as fast as possible)

I'm not assuming the blue players are dumb, far from it. I've been assuming the blue players are incredibly talented and therefore working with the assumption that if a red bomber raid gets intercepted, we have very very little time to eliminate every intercepting 109 before our bombers are cut down. The key factor is that the interceptors need to figure out how to get at the bombers before they reach the target.

Over the last few weeks, we've seen red use very low level attacks to try and avoid the radar. Here's how I would have arranged intercept:

Position two aircraft over high value targets that have been targeted by red (Boulogne and Calais). This eats up 4 pilots for a pair over both cities. Remaining pilots are positioned to monitor radar for Le Touquet, Pas de Calais, and Dunkirk/Oostend areas. This eats up another 3 pilots. Have a single remaining pilot monitor the low level observers which covers the entire coast from 0ft and up as well as all France. This takes 1 pilots. That's 8 pilots required to do the job.

If the raid is high, the radar monitoring pilots will pick it up soon enough for all four ground stationed pilots to move to the best airfield to take off from and then mount the interception. The pilots in the air over Calais or Boulogne can be dispatched to make early contact and either shadow it to provide better information about location, or engage to draw fighters away, or attack bombers quickly to try and disperse the raid before disappearing and causing confusion.

If the raid is low, the ground observer pilot finds it, can attempt to identify the target by the contact headings, and can direct either of the two pairs of pilots in the air towards the raid, or can direct the ground stationed pilots to an appropriate airfield to take-off and intercept. If the target is one of the non-high value targets, then perhaps you only get them on their way out. If the target is one of the high-value targets, then you've got aircraft presumably in a position to quickly engage and hopefully disrupt the attack.

The problem here is that you need 8 pilots to do this job, and 4 of them need to be able to work the Tab4-1 radar effectively. And this is why I've been arguing that perhaps the biggest problem isn't aircraft types, it's getting people to play and educate themselves about the systems involved.

I've had players pointing out that it's impossible to know how much damage the enemy is doing to their resources when, in fact, there's a Tab 4-1 report that allows you to keep track of this specifically which has been available since day 1 of the campaign. These things have been made known to both sides from the start. Play with the Tab4 menu options. Find them and use them and ask questions if it doesn't make sense. If they don't work for you, there's a reason (do you have 'server' info being sent to your chat window?). The tools that are in place aren't just optional. They're all critical. This is because there's no equality here. There's equity. You have been given the tools that make you equal. You need to use them to be equal. And I'm not assuming anyone is dumb. I'm assuming you guys are smart and going to use this stuff really well.

As for getting bombs to London, I really think taking the time to get very high is the key. Even if you can't bomb from that height, following a Ju88 in a shallow dive is tricky. They can get some really good speed doing that. Shallow dive towards the London target all the way from the English coast from 25,000 ft. Hopefully the E4/N will make this a more appealing tactic to use.

[ATAG_Flare]

Looking forward to fighting some more 109s up high! Bring it on, blue, we'll be waiting! We'll even give you a head start on your dive to safety, you can start 5,000 feet lower! :devilish:

Also looking forward to shooting some 110s - at least then they can't outturn us and aren't built out of solid armour plating!






I'd be willing to try flying blue... how are the controls of a 109 different from a Spit or Hurri? I'd need to add an axis for oil cooler, and I guess the 109 has aileron trim instead of rudder, right? Can't do it this weekend, unfortunately, as I'll be out of town Saturday night.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

Kendy! NOOOO! We need you on intercept man!

[ATAG_Torian]

Thx Wolvie for taking the time to tweak all this.
The really BIG game-breaker tho for us blue fighters is the bug that gives the IIa such an altitude advantage. Is there a possibility for future campaigns to leave out the IIa until it is fixed ?
Another thought would be for blue to be able to launch an AI bomber raid. As we just don't have anything like the numbers for any semblance of historical reality, it would be a helpful option to allow blue to launch 1 AI raid.
I realise this would be a huge job to code for a number of target options for an AI raid but if it was only for like 6 aircraft and then blue could fly 6 of the same type which means red would have to try and pick which was the real and which is the AI.

[No.401_Wolverine]

The really BIG game-breaker tho for us blue fighters is the bug that gives the IIa such an altitude advantage. Is there a possibility for future campaigns to leave out the IIa until it is fixed ?
Another thought would be for blue to be able to launch an AI bomber raid. As we just don't have anything like the numbers for any semblance of historical reality, it would be a helpful option to allow blue to launch 1 AI raid.
I realise this would be a huge job to code for a number of target options for an AI raid but if it was only for like 6 aircraft and then blue could fly 6 of the same type which means red would have to try and pick which was the real and which is the AI.

If we leave out the IIa, we leave out the E4/N. I've played this version of the game as long as everyone else here has, and while I'm adding it back in, I'm STILL not convinced that the relative differences (bugged or not) amount to such a great divide that the game is unbalanced. If we get equal player counts and the combat results swing wildly back towards blue, I'm going to go back to how I had it before. I still haven't discounted the experiences of the first couple of runs of the campaign when we had more or less equal counts and the combat losses appeared to be pretty equal on both sides. I keep being told that the IIa is unbeatable above 23,000ft, but I fly up there all the time and in regular ATAG server play and 401 server play before that I'm here to tell you that I am quite capable of being beaten. If it's only unbeatable in the hands of a very good pilot, then I don't count that as unbalanced enough. If you think it makes me not only not a very good pilot but a terrible one, well, then I know a lot of terrible pilots.

If people are comfortable with Spitfire Ia vs E4, then that's also viable.

AI aircraft are a no go for this setup. Already we have players who are experiencing problems. I wouldn't add AI into that.

[ATAG_Torian]

If we leave out the IIa, we leave out the E4/N. ..........If people are comfortable with Spitfire Ia vs E4, then that's also viable.

That would definitely calm things.


AI aircraft are a no go for this setup. Already we have players who are experiencing problems. I wouldn't add AI into that.

No worries, let's make it playable first and foremost.

[Perfesser]

I've had players pointing out that it's impossible to know how much damage the enemy is doing to their resources when, in fact, there's a Tab 4-1 report that allows you to keep track of this specifically which has been available since day 1 of the campaign. These things have been made known to both sides from the start. Play with the Tab4 menu options. Find them and use them and ask questions if it doesn't make sense. If they don't work for you, there's a reason (do you have 'server' info being sent to your chat window?). The tools that are in place aren't just optional. They're all critical. This is because there's no equality here. There's equity. You have been given the tools that make you equal. You need to use them to be equal. And I'm not assuming anyone is dumb. I'm assuming you guys are smart and going to use this stuff really well.

As a Blue pilot I wasn't aware of this feature till after mission 2 - flying in the dark till then.

Aside from all the other issues that are slowly being sorting out like production capabilities, stat analysis, server problems, campaign parameters(basic rules) and radar issues the basic problem is the imbalance of targets.

Red has highly concentrated targets they can hit right on the coast, if they chose to do so intensively this would quickly be over.
Blue has dispersed targets, deeply situated in enemy territory. Of course they can't survive a raid or make a dent in Red capability to wage war.
Blue feels the need to clear the sky of enemies, driving the fight higher all the time but still impossible when Red is spawning in again right under your flight path with an unlimited supply of 1st rate fighters.
Red can win, Blue cannot.

If ship convoys were added and their value was sort of equal to the value of Calais - Dunkirque area targets this could be a fairly balanced campaign and possible for either side to win. It would do a lot to mitigate the radar imbalance as well as the high altitude problem.
SpitIIa's could fly around at 25K all they like while their ships are sunk.
You could still have a few inland targets for Blue to attack, sort of equal in scope and distance to what Red has available but make them high value.
Especially if those targets were identified and linked to specific production... this sector is a Spitfire factory complex, it makes the IIa - knock it out and Spitfire IIa's aren't produced.

The small numbers of bombers have to be able to make a sizable dent in production capacity - either by repeatedly being able to hit the target or much more persistent damage.
Bomb that factory to zero and no Spit II's are produced for 4 or 5 sessions (weeks)

Either convoys or a redistribution of targets, Blue assets more dispersed, Red more concentrated.
Concentrated targets make for better gameplay.

[No.401_Wolverine]

Okay, summing up:

E4 to E4/N with price increase
E3 to E3/B with small price increase
Ju87 to Me110C7 with price increase
Wind Max to 4.9 from 5.9


These changes are done on my version. I want to test a little bit before uploading to Pan. Give me a bit.
Unfortunately, I don't have time to update the weather files. The fix is in, but because the weather is pregen, it'll take 5 days to clear out the 'nasty weather front' (though I'm sure some of those days will be fine). After that, it should present the lighter winds on average.

EDIT: Tests complete! Files sent to Pantast.

[No.401_Wolverine]

Ship AI is potentially just as troubling as Aircraft AI. It's certainly bugged in some ways. I will run tests for a new version that includes shipping though and see what can be done. I would like to use ships in some manner, it just remains to figure out the best way.

[ATAG_Septic]

What time is kick-off chaps?

[Cassius]

Unfortunately, not all interested North American pilots can play during hours that fit for European players, even on weekends. And European hours don't really work out for Australian players.

This is an issue we have always had. I had hoped more of the NA players who fly on ATAG would take an interest and participate.

For European hours, I highly recommend the SoW campaign server for something along these lines of gameplay. It's highly populated with players on both sides during European hours.

I had hoped to offer something for the rest of us who simply can't make those events. Perhaps there just aren't enough interested community players in this timezone? I don't know.
We all already there (SoW)...But we want to take part it that festival of CloD life ))


Worrying about people not having fun or thinking that I'm showing favoritism tires me out more than coding to 5am....

Okay, summing up:

E4 to E4/N with price increase
E3 to E3/B with small price increase
Ju87 to Me110C7 with price increase
Wind Max to 4.9 from 5.9

Under these changes, any aircraft that you have at airfields will automatically be 'upgraded' to the new type.

I think I can make it happen, but the code won't be pretty....

What I can't do is add additional aircraft on top. THAT's a big job that would have to wait as it affects so many pieces of the puzzle. All I'm really doing here is swapping out the aircraft name in various places so that the correct aircraft is offered for spawn and indicated in menus. Still a fairly large job - and very very very very very repetitive. I've always been meaning to make a little tool that'll do this for me, but never get around to it.

CLARIFICATION FOR RULES:

E3's carrying bombs count as BOMBERS for the rule of 3 (must have at least 3 109 E3/Bs with bombs in the group en route to same target)
110s carrying bombs count as BOMBERS for the rule of 3. (must have at least 3 110s with bombs in the group en route to same target)



It's just as well...I find it easier to shoot down a 110 than a Stuka...
Do I understand correctly that Stuka is replaced by 110....:doh:
Or it is possible to upgrade part Ju 87 to Me110, and have both?

[No.401_Wolverine]

Do I understand correctly that Stuka is replaced by 110....:doh:
Or it is possible to upgrade part Ju 87 to Me110, and have both?

Currently, Blue has 5 aircraft types. I can change those types, but I can't easily add a 6th type. If I add a 6th aircraft type, the system would get out of hand with the variations based on how it is designed currently.

I would like to design a system that would easily handle lots of types. I can see how I could do it, but I can't do it for this current run. We're giving the 110 a go and if people prefer the 87, we'll put it back.

[ATAG_Lord Wukits]

I would love to join the blue side.

But before I'm placed, Let me say I love Bombing(low altitude) and my bomber take off percentage is around 90% successful, and landing is around 33% successful. (until such time as collisions with trees becomes active).

As a fighter I've shot down twelve aircraft. Ten friendlies (I like to think I can identify them now, and NEVER FF'ed an Italian craft), and two reds... but that happened about five minutes after I disengaged and went back to france. I'm about 90% successful with takeoffs and about 60% successful with landings. Though I love bombing as a 109.

I'm able to fly 110s with the same ratio as fighters, and stukas is a near 100% success rate for both takeoffs and landings. [ even when I'm missing a wing! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITM1wwFYORc ]

I'd like to think if the going gets tough I could at the very least sing epics of Blues struggles....

"We held the coastline
They held the highlands
And they were sharp
As sharp as knives
They heard the hum of our motors
They counted the rotors
And waited for us to arrive
And we would all go down together
We said we'd all go down together
Yes we would all go down together"


:salute:

[ATAG_Freya]

You're in! Maybe a bit overqualified, but you're in. Come fly with the "Blues" this saturday!

:salute:

[7./JG26_SMOKEJUMPER]

My typo, yes I mean the IIa and yes I know what aircraft we were engaging, I'm not dumb.

Mate I love your mission but I'm sorry I feel that due to the aircraft variants I will just stick to flying server one as I believe putting E3s and E4s against IIa's is a no win situation. (just my thoughts and I not looking for a argument nor do I mean to offend, sorry if I have) :salute:



That's too bad.

The 1a flown properly is the superior Spitfire I think.

[III./JG27_Kimbak-2]

I´d join as a blue pilot as well, If you let me. 109er, what ever the task will be :-)

[ATAG_Ribbs]

Like Freya said! Come fly Saturday with us..we need more Blue pilots.. All are welcomed! S!

[ATAG_Ribbs]

How much interest would there be if there was a European sign up sheet, and if the server ran a time slot it that timezone for them? Show your interest here if it's something you guys would be interested in? S!

Cheers

[ATAG_Septic]

How much interest would there be if there was a European sign up sheet, and if the server ran a time slot it that timezone for them? Show your interest here if it's something you guys would be interested in? S!

Cheers

I've managed to make three or four missions at the current time and I highly recommend it. The level of planning and excellent leadership have made it a joy to participate and it seems a shame that not more are benefiting. If similar were available in my time-zone then I'd fly either or both!

Septic.

[No.401_Wolverine]

How would people feel if we moved the flying time up two hours? 6pm to 10pm EST. That would make it a little easier for the night owls across the pond and place the mission after breakfast and before lunch on a Sunday for the Aussies. I don't think it would be fair to push the time too far forward because Australia usually gets the short end of the stick in these things and they have to get up at 4am or something silly to play.

[No.401_Wolverine]

Also, we need more Red pilots! Both bombers and fighters.

[ATAG_Ribbs]

I know I wouldn't mind at all
There has to be a compromise somewhere
Cheers

[ATAG_Dave]

How much interest would there be if there was a European sign up sheet, and if the server ran a time slot it that timezone for them? Show your interest here if it's something you guys would be interested in? S!

Cheers

Id be interested :thumbsup:

[9./JG26_Brigg]

i'd also be interested in taking part. if I could fly a 109 in any role that would be great :)

[ATAG_Ribbs]

When you guys say you are interested, please specify if your interested in playing at the modified time slot... Or are interested in the Europeans time slot. We are trying to guage interest in a possible second running of the server. I believe the modified time slot would be the best because it would mean more players on the server at the same time, but if there is overwhelming interest in a second slot..that would be good also.

[ATAG_Ribbs]

i'd also be interested in taking part. if I could fly a 109 in any role that would be great :)
Absolutely! We definitely need some protection from the pesky reds! Hopefully see ya Saturday night? S!

[ATAG_Dave]

When you guys say you are interested, please specify if your interested in playing at the modified time slot... Or are interested in the Europeans time slot. We are trying to guage interest in a possible second running of the server. I believe the modified time slot would be the best because it would mean more players on the server at the same time, but if there is overwhelming interest in a second slot..that would be good also.

Sorry I meant in a GMT / Euro time zone friendly slot which for me means evenings (GMT) :thumbsup:

[9./JG26_Brigg]

Yeah sorry forgot to mention that the GMT European slots ate what do was referring to, however I am not totally against playing in the USA time frame as I don't live a very busy life

[ATAG_Ribbs]

Well if you can make it we would love to see ya there! Come check it out and bring friends. Hopefully Freya can get you signed up. S!

Cheers

[klaw123]

Hi, I would be VERY interested in this if something could be arranged for say 20.00Hrs GMT or so that would be ideal. I didn't know about this thread, ATAG_Septic put me onto it. I know 2 other fine pilots who'd jump at the chance to take part. So yes please...advance your plans and count me in!!

Thanks in advance:thumbsup:

[Walsh]

How would people feel if we moved the flying time up two hours? 6pm to 10pm EST. That would make it a little easier for the night owls across the pond and place the mission after breakfast and before lunch on a Sunday for the Aussies. I don't think it would be fair to push the time too far forward because Australia usually gets the short end of the stick in these things and they have to get up at 4am or something silly to play.

I wouldn't be able to make it for most of the event if this happened

[ATAG_Deacon]

I wouldn't be able to make it for most of the event if this happened

Or maybe just extend the time from 6-midnight EST...that way the Euro folks can roll off as the US/Aussie
folks roll on.

[OXO uk]

I would love to be part of this too ! hope it can be arranged , superb work by the mission builders and server people ,

count me in please

atb oxo

[Bonditaria]

I'd like to fly RED in one of these campaigns but the current local 2am start is no go.

If the start time was two hours earlier, I'd sign up just in case I might still want to fly after midnight, but I'd be less committed.

A server starting four to six hours earlier than currently would be best for me. 10/8pm Central Europe Time. But please let it run much longer so the whole world can join in!

I'd prefer to get involved in a 'world war' campaign fought by pilots from all over, rather than a similar but different server for the European time slot only.

[ATAG_Ribbs]

I agree Bondarita... The proposed second running of the server.. Would be a continuation of the first run . So the server that is running now would play out..and that would be day 1. All the damages and aircraft losses would be saved and would be there when the second running would happen. That would be day 2. Everything that happened in day 2 would be there when it rotates to day 3 and so on. I don't know how much work it would be for Wolverine to stretch the time the server ran just 1 day.... It would be fun to have everyone on playing at the same time..but it would mean he would have to reformulate all of the repair times I would imagine. Hopefully he will respond and clarify. I'm glad to see you are interested. S!

Cheers

[ATAG_Freya]

I guess technically, 2 seperate run-times (with shared 'stats' between the NA and UK groups) could be do-able. And we could keep it simple for the server operator by spacing them with a 12(?) hour run of the training mission. The hard part, or the part that may become confusing, is the sharing of info between the 2 time zones re: what happened in the production output, what did the enemy hit, etc. I would say it be easiest if the NA time slot ran first, as we are familiar with the workings of this campaign, and then NA players could post a briefing and possibly some instruction for the UK group so that an 'officer' player from there would know where his planes are, and what to do in the production front. Just a thought for now though.. I'll try to make it this weekend to chat with Wolverine about it on TS, then go from there..

As with Walsh, if the NA time is bumped forward, I'll be knocked out of most of the fight. (although I'm not sure if I'm in for the next 3(ish) anyways..)

[Kendy for the State]

I appreciate the scheduling problems, but I am with Walsh on this... my wife gives me enough problems as it is with the 8-12 time slot. Our marriage would not likely survive if I told her I was going to start at 6pm EST. My ideal time is Saturday or Sunday morning 6-10am EST, as she doesn't get out of bed until 10. She actually complains about me flying then, even though she is asleep the whole time. Women! Who needs 'em?

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

[ATAG_Ribbs]

Well I really think it would be nice if we could just run it once...but expand it to like an 8 hour slot..positioned in between the to time zones as best as possible.. So that players could get on when it's possible. Problem with that..I'm affraid players would get scattered out.. And there might only be like 5 people on some times. Or maybe the 2 servers runs might be better. I would space them a couple of days apart tho.. Just so intell can be shared and gone over before hand..and planning completed. Just my thoughts

[No.401_Wolverine]

An 8 hour run is potentially possible, but I would recommend not running this mission for that length of time.

The easiest way to do this is simply run it at 8pm Euro and 8pm NA with a 1 hour gap between the runs. If NA players can show up around 7pm (12 Euro) then they can hopefully get a quick briefing of the situation for their counterparts before playing the NA timezone run.

Remember, all stats carry over. The only difference between an 8 hour run and two 4 hour runs is that the time and weather will change between them. And, in my experience, a 24 hour server run isn't actually all that much fun unless you get people REALLY organized. Two 4 hour runs will condense it and force people to make the choice to come to one or the other. 8 hour run would just mean people dropping in and out and make it hard to get proper flights together.

Setting up a two 4 hour run is incredibly easy for us to do. All it requires is the server mission list to be:

Training
Training
War Machine (Euro run)
Training
War Machine (NA run)
Training
Training etc.

We have a tool allowing certain users to flip the map over on time. We'd need to add a few European players to the admin list, but I'm sure that could be arranged and instructions given.

I'm fine with doing this, but we should put an organized sign up sheet up in order to get the teams sorted. If the euro timezone ends up being 24 blue vs 12 red, I don't think it's really feasible - unless the NA time zone ends up being 24 red vs 12 blue!

[ATAG_Freya]

I'm fine with doing this, but we should put an organized sign up sheet up in order to get the teams sorted. If the euro timezone ends up being 24 blue vs 12 red, I don't think it's really feasible - unless the NA time zone ends up being 24 red vs 12 blue!

That could be a problem. The only way around it is to cap the #s to whatever the minority team has. Which is unfair in some cases when people show up to play. Unless the team with most players can work out "shifts" throughout the 4h span. OR some sort of discussion pre-mission if one team is OK with allowing the other to have a FEW more players, which I think would be alright for the sake of the gameplay. It will vary week to week, ofcourse, being a saturday night and all.

We can discuss that further, I guess.

Tonight I could post a new thread, linked to this one, signing in BOTH Europe and North Am. players, in separate lists. This will be a trial run to gauge interest, with no official start date announced until we see what happens with the list..

Sound OK?

[ATAG_Ribbs]

I think this is a great Idea..and capping the number of participants Like they are in our rotation should be fine. It's always going t be a bit unbalanced.. But I feel it will even out over the 2 server instances. Of we could get Colander or someone to make something on the front page similar to Prison break to catch people's eye..would help alot in recruitment! It's alot of fun that people just don't really know about yet. We are all salesman for this campaign so let's beat the bush!

Cheers

[Logan]

I think that would be great to have it run twice...but... If everything carries over how will that affect the plane numbers at bases? Say we have a plan in place to take X-wing fighters from the base at Hoth and intercept Tie-bombers. So we log in only to find we do not have enough X-wings at the base for our pilots or to keep the rule of three due to losses from the other mission before us. I see a logistical problem coming.

[ATAG_Ribbs]

We will have to have coordination from a server 1 commander ..and a server 2 commander. Between the time they run. Server 1 time slot will ha e to provide an AAR ( After action report) so that server 2 can build a game plan an so on. I don't feel that an hour between the servers running is enough time to build a game plan for server 2....but we are just trying to find out how much interest there is from the other players out there that would like to participate.. But can't due to the odd time the Campaign is currently running.

[Logan]

Right, that's what I was getting at. If a plan is in place for three days and practice is under way, it could snafu it for one time zone or the other. One quick fix may be to assign certain bases in each sector for US and Euro to operate out of. That way you know you'll have what you need at mission time. More work for Wolverine though.(Sorry Broverine) I do hope it can work with both US and Euro timezone..its a lot of fun and they are missing out on it..oh and we need Red pilots. Grab a fighter and spend your Saturday in the sky shooting at people!

[No.401_Wolverine]

Restricting bases limits options. I would prefer people to work out these problems. The team with the better communication and better teamwork winning is a bonafide plus in my mind.

[Logan]

Then Ribbs idea would work best. Both commanders would have to get on the same page about operations. I guess thats how it was in RL anyway.

ATAG_Ribbs

We will have to have coordination from a server 1 commander ..and a server 2 commander. Between the time they run. Server 1 time slot will ha e to provide an AAR ( After action report) so that server 2 can build a game plan an so on. I don't feel that an hour between the servers running is enough time to build a game plan for server 2....but we are just trying to find out how much interest there is from the other players out there that would like to participate.. But can't due to the odd time the Campaign is currently running.

[ATAG_Ribbs]

I still think a slight time change might benefit our time slot.. Maybe a poll or something. We are having a hell of a time getting blue players. Like you mentioned Wolverine.. Maybe pushing it back a couple hours to maybe pick up a few more blue players would help... Or really start recruiting off of Ts ..during the day. Nothing pushy..but if there are people flying blue then..maybe they are shy or don't know about the war machine Campaign. I truly feel that with the Chat being closed on default.. Kills any advertising there. There hasn't been a post after mine almost 2 days ago or more. I tried to hint to Colander to maybe change it back...but I think it fell on deaf ears. What's the use in even having it if no one uses it anymore. He made it that way to cut down on new people posting in there thinking it was the first post needed for download.. But I think it's worse that nobody uses it at all now. Thoughts?

Cheers

[ATAG_Septic]

.....nobody uses it at all now. Thoughts?
Cheers

You've just reminded me that I haven't looked at it for a very long time.

Septic.

[Dai-San]

Please count me in for this on the RED side flying a Blenheim :joystick:

[No.401_Wolverine]

Hi guys,

What do you think about a postponement of tomorrow's mission for a week? There's a number of players who are going to be unavailable this weekend and we're still trying to drum up new pilots for Blue.

If it's okay with the majority, I'd like to make the next mission Apr 30th.

Please pass this on to anyone in the campaign you see.

Thanks,

Wolvy

[libano1982]

Hi pilots...please assign me escort bomber or intercept fighter RAF...thank you Sir..

[ATAG_Ribbs]

New pilots..please specify what time zone you want to fly in North American or European. A European friendly time hasn't be specified yet..we are looking into options.

Cheers

[Dai-San]

European Timezone preferably but can do US.

[7./JG26_SMOKEJUMPER]

I'm going to go traitor!

[ATAG_Freya]

We're signing here now: http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21997&page=2

If you've replied in this thread here, and I missed you, check that post and declare your side and timezone. TY

edit: I think I've got everyone up to this point, but double check :D

[No.85_Cam]

This looks like it could be interesting. How can I join in....flying a Spitfire on intercept. I may be able to get a few friends of mine to join (all ex SoW)

N.610_Cam

[Squiz]

S! Wolverine and others,

Will next Saturday, 28 May, be the last mission in this series, before the start of the dual time zone series?

Squiz

[No.401_Wolverine]

I believe it will, Squiz. We will be taking the campaign down after the 28th and making a few tweaks before re-establishing it with the new times.