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ATAG_Colander
Feb-21-2016, 09:05
Hi all,

A little update which will only interest current and future owners of an Oculus rift.
TF has made OR work with Cliffs. There are still a few caveats (listed bellow) but for what is worth, it is working.


http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/TF/Oculus/or.jpg
Full size image: Bigger (http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/TF/Oculus/or_fullsize.jpg)

Here's a little demo (sorry, can't make a video because of the way it works) of how it looks ingame. To see it you will need Firefox (I think Chrome also works) and your VR viewer. I've tested it only with OR but it is supposed to work with cardboard and whatnot.

Demo Here (http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/TF/Oculus/index.html)

There are 5 images. Use the arrows to move to the next/previous. If you want to see the images directly, here they are:
First (http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/TF/Oculus/images/a.png), Second (http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/TF/Oculus/images/b.png), Third (http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/TF/Oculus/images/c.png),Fourth (http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/TF/Oculus/images/d.png),Fifth (http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/TF/Oculus/images/e.png)


Now the caveats:
1.- The 2d things like map, chat etc, are hard to read. Because of how they are rendered, when you move your head the windows move with you so if the map is at the left of your viewing area, it will always be there. The solution is centering it but you also have to view it with one eye as the 3D effect doesn't work well.
2.- Originally buildings where rendering in one eye only. This was fixed but, of course, it means double the rendering stress and lower FPS.
3.- Aiming is hard. Changing focus from instruments (close) to gunsight (far) takes some time to get used to. Also, because of the reflector size, the gunsight is only shown fully on one eye at the time. If anyone has documentation on this, it would be appreciated as it feels weird.
4.- Spotting distant planes is harder. Even though the "single pixel" far contact can be seen for miles, the "screen door" effect makes them harder to spot. Also identifying closer contacts is harder because of the OR resolution. In any case, the zoom helps with both issues but keep in mind that zooming is not supposed to be done with VR so don't try to look at the instruments when zoomed as you will feel like when looking at something really close where each eye sees something completely different :D
5.- FPS is and is not an issue. Yes, higher FPS gives a smoother feeling but, thanks to the OR timewarp, one can be on the deck, over London with 13 FPS and not get seasick.
Sidenote: is funny how the timewarp works. You need to send 90fps to the OR for it to work but it is supposed to be there to help when lower FPS so as always with modding liffs, a trick had to be done :D

All that said, it feels great to be inside the cockpit!

All the above means that there's a 90% probability OR support will be included in TF5.0

:salute:

PS: For those wondering and without going into much details, no, it was not even close to easy to do and yes, it required making Cliffs work with DX11.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Edit: Added 2 more images. 1 over london, 1 with contacts right in front.

And always nice to see appreciation from the Facebook page and one particular follower :)

20866

ATAG_Septic
Feb-21-2016, 09:22
Hi all,


PS: For those wondering and without going into much details, no, it was not even close to easy to do and yes, it required making Cliffs work with DX11.


Amazeballs!!!!!:stunned:


(Never suspected I would use that vernacula but it seems entirely appropriate!)

Kling
Feb-21-2016, 09:39
Amazing work Colander!

What you are able to do with coding never stops amazing me and the rest of us!

Seawind
Feb-21-2016, 11:10
Fantastic!

Having ordered the CV1 and with flightsims as a long time interest this is really exciting! DCS would be what I realized I would use it with, and DCS is a great sim - but my favourite is clearly Clod. If it would be possible to fly around in Tiger Moths, Spits, Hurricanes and 109s just enjoying the views from inside the cockpits - Wow...
For me, if combat would have to wait for CV2 so be it. That's icing on the cake.

Even timewarp... Hoping for the best in the challenges of realization and that the problem solving is fun and not always frustrating =)

danperin
Feb-21-2016, 11:22
You are amazing, Colander!!! :)

Thank you!! :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

KansasCS
Feb-21-2016, 12:02
Hi all,

A little update which will only interest current and future owners of an Oculus rift.
TF has made OR work with Cliffs. There are still a few caveats (listed bellow) but for what is worth, it is working.


http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/TF/Oculus/or.jpg
Full size image: Bigger (http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/TF/Oculus/or_fullsize.jpg)

Here's a little demo (sorry, can't make a video because of the way it works) of how it looks ingame. To see it you will need Firefox (I think Chrome also works) and your VR viewer. I've tested it only with OR but it is supposed to work with cardboard and whatnot.

Demo Here (http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/TF/Oculus/index.html)

There are 3 images. Use the arrows to move to the next/previous. If you want to see the images directly, here they are:
First (http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/TF/Oculus/images/a.png), Second (http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/TF/Oculus/images/b.png), Third (http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/TF/Oculus/images/c.png)


Now the caveats:
1.- The 2d things like map, chat etc, are hard to read. Because of how they are rendered, when you move your head the windows move with you so if the map is at the left of your viewing area, it will always be there. The solution is centering it but you also have to view it with one eye as the 3D effect doesn't work well.
2.- Originally buildings where rendering in one eye only. This was fixed but, of course, it means double the rendering stress and lower FPS.
3.- Aiming is hard. Changing focus from instruments (close) to gunsight (far) takes some time to get used to. Also, because of the reflector size, the gunsight is only shown fully on one eye at the time. If anyone has documentation on this, it would be appreciated as it feels weird.
4.- Spotting distant planes is harder. Even though the "single pixel" far contact can be seen for miles, the "screen door" effect makes them harder to spot. Also identifying closer contacts is harder because of the OR resolution. In any case, the zoom helps with both issues but keep in mind that zooming is not supposed to be done with VR so don't try to look at the instruments when zoomed as you will feel like when looking at something really close where each eye sees something completely different :D
5.- FPS is and is not an issue. Yes, higher FPS gives a smoother feeling but, thanks to the OR timewarp, one can be on the deck, over London with 13 FPS and not get seasick.
Sidenote: is funny how the timewarp works. You need to send 90fps to the OR for it to work but it is supposed to be there to help when lower FPS so as always with modding liffs, a trick had to be done :D

All that said, it feels great to be inside the cockpit!

All the above means that there's a 90% probability OR support will be included in TF5.0

:salute:

PS: For those wondering and without going into much details, no, it was not even close to easy to do and yes, it required making Cliffs work with DX11.


Holy shit! Best news ever!
I tried to make cliffs in 3D work a while back but gave up on it, since my expertise in shaders etc was very limited.
To this topic get some fresh wind is amazing!



Gesendet von iPhone mit Tapatalk

pckormic
Feb-21-2016, 12:23
I belive that the Oculus rift will become the new Track IR in a couple of years for the Flight Sim community:thumbsup:

Hystix
Feb-21-2016, 12:46
I will second the above statement. Holy Smokes. Best news ever. ...and the last sentence at the bottom.

Continu0
Feb-21-2016, 14:04
All hail the holy kitchen sieve!:D

While I understand that this is great news for future Oculus-Owners, I have a question which might be of interest for the poorer amongst us... :D
Might it be possible that non-OR-users will profit from the game running on DX11 as well? FPS-wise? Could it even be a break-trough for futher developing the game engine?

As I have no idea how DX (and all the related stuff) even works, I really wonder what it means that the game now can run on DX11...

RAF74_Buzzsaw
Feb-21-2016, 14:47
Great work Colander! :bravo:

Of course, everyone will need to understand there is a downside...

With VR active, this means the 3D cockpit models now have to be made even more precisely... and the old models will need re-working... which requires more time. ;)

So everyone needs to be patient. :salute:

ATAG_NakedSquirrel
Feb-21-2016, 15:57
PS: For those wondering and without going into much details, no, it was not even close to easy to do and yes, it required making Cliffs work with DX11.

:stunned:

ATAG_yotheguy
Feb-21-2016, 16:10
Thank's for all your hard work man:nw:

Chivas
Feb-21-2016, 16:47
This is even better news than I had even hoped for. :). A big thank you to Colander, and Team Fusion.

MJDixon
Feb-21-2016, 17:06
This is amazing news for the future of CloD, I was worried that it might get left behind if it didn't have VR support (as the technology is that much of a game changer), but now seemingly it's moving to the front of the pack!

Great work! :)

ATAG_Colander
Feb-21-2016, 18:03
All hail the holy kitchen sieve!:D

While I understand that this is great news for future Oculus-Owners, I have a question which might be of interest for the poorer amongst us... :D
Might it be possible that non-OR-users will profit from the game running on DX11 as well? FPS-wise? Could it even be a break-trough for futher developing the game engine?

As I have no idea how DX (and all the related stuff) even works, I really wonder what it means that the game now can run on DX11...

Nope, it gets no faster.

ATAG_Colander
Feb-21-2016, 18:06
Has anyone with OR seen the images I posted?
If you did, I'm wondering what you think.

Salmo
Feb-22-2016, 01:29
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3sOuEv0E2I

pccharlie
Feb-22-2016, 07:52
hey i have a working rift right now on clod "say that it is running at 4 fps because of a 780 but it is a proof of concept" it works. there are only some problems being it will not be as good as the tf one but it works right now.
please let me know if you want a tutorial on how to make it work right now

Topgum
Feb-22-2016, 08:18
Has anyone with OR seen the images I posted?
If you did, I'm wondering what you think.

Hi Cool-ander,
I did, by cross-eyeing. So, I got a good 3D-impression of the cockpits and - yes - it looks beauty full. The handles, wheels and the stick etc. really stand out. Especially the first pic looks impressive and gives an "real" feeling of altitude. When the last pic should be that one which shows contacts on the right, I can't see them at all, though :-(
From what I can see, the resolution looks good, better than I expected, but I guess it might be different with the OR DK2 or CV1 on your head.

When I had my first peep with the DK1 I was deeply impressed by the feeling of immersion (and the feeling of motion sicknes and the poor flyscreen-display), but I had no hope to see it with Clod one day. I am very happy about your efforts and your successes to keep our dream alive - and to push it beyond Jupiter.....you rock!

ush
Feb-22-2016, 08:41
thats not a little extra...its a huge step

Although I'm probably going to go for the HTC Vive over the oculus

ush
Feb-22-2016, 08:43
thats not a little extra...its a huge step

Although I'm probably going to go for the HTC Vive over the oculus

The vive is shipping with tracked hand controllers (oculus ones are coming later this year) those controllers working in conjunction with the IL2 clickable cockpit... :-)

ATAG_Colander
Feb-22-2016, 08:56
please let me know if you want a tutorial on how to make it work right now

I would like to know how you got it working without DX11, integrated head tracking and timewarp but probably don't need a tutorial but just a 2 liner with the overall explanation.

ATAG_Colander
Feb-22-2016, 08:57
Although I'm probably going to go for the HTC Vive over the oculus

Currently it only supports OR.

pccharlie
Feb-22-2016, 09:00
can i talk to you about it to you on ts as i am very bad at typing

hugso
Feb-22-2016, 10:52
Wow, you guys never fail to amaze. It would be my dream ticket to use OR instead of sitting in front of a monitor. I designed my cockpit years ago so that everything could be operated by feel, so OR will be perfect. Thank you so much for your hard work.

Winger
Feb-22-2016, 13:09
Guys. Seriously. AWESOME!

Youll definately have me back as a player with that:)
OR CV1 is already oin preorder and shippingdate is april:)

Hystix
Feb-22-2016, 13:33
Is the HTC Vive a much different animal for implementation? Does anyone know?

Moxy
Feb-22-2016, 13:57
~S~ Colander

Im assuming you snapped the pic into anaglyph for demonstration.
Ive been flying anagliph for years in old il2 and rof, have never been able
to inject drivers (iz3d, tridef, or fxaa, (with correct DX)) into Clod.

Can you giv any "simple" insight on the injection?

Mox

Sideline for anybody, If you want to "simply" experience 3d, grab the IZ3D, drivers, and a pair of
red/blue glasses (make em with sharpies) and check out rof...works right out of the box. (a little different than il2,
and old il2 in dx9 (not openg) will show what Colander is talking about graphical)
http://iz3d.com/ Its fun! And will give you an idea of the future

(Please, not trying to hijack this thread)

Mox

ATAG_Colander
Feb-22-2016, 14:11
~S~ Colander

Im assuming you snapped the pic into anaglyph for demonstration.
Ive been flying anagliph for years in old il2 and rof, have never been able
to inject drivers (iz3d, tridef, or fxaa, (with correct DX)) into Clod.

Can you giv any "simple" insight on the injection?

Mox

Is not an injection as you know it. There are many changes made to the game engine to make it work in DX11, render properly in 3D and use the head tracking.

ATAG_Colander
Feb-22-2016, 14:15
Is the HTC Vive a much different animal for implementation? Does anyone know?

I imagine it would be similar but:
1.- TF does not have a Vive to test with.
2.- Vive does not have the "time warp" so, due to the low FPS, you will experience nausea as soon as you move your head around.

About #2: I'm not sure how hard it would be to implement a hardcoded "time warp" as the idea behind it seems simple enough but for now is not in scope.

Moxy
Feb-22-2016, 14:20
~S~ Thanks

Love 3d, love the work!
Hope you didn't mine my edit, for anagliph

Moxy

ATAG_Colander
Feb-22-2016, 14:55
~S~ Thanks

Love 3d, love the work!
Hope you didn't mine my edit, for anagliph

Moxy

I didn't even notice the "anaglyph" mention :D

To answer your Q no, is not an anaglyph. The color aberration you see is the distortion OR makes before presenting it to you to counteract the distortion (also the pincushion) made by the lenses.

9./JG26_Brigg
Feb-22-2016, 15:18
Hats off to you brother, you've got some skills.

ATAG_Colander
Feb-22-2016, 15:20
Hats off to you brother, you've got some skills.

TF as a whole does :salute:

Buchon
Feb-22-2016, 15:32
Amazing work !

I know that it will broke the 2d interface but well.. this is WWII so to navigate with compass and chronometer :laugh:

Seriously I cant wait to try my first mission even with the issues of trying to no get lose and a broken sig, just watch Asseto Corsa which have no interface at all in VR at the moment but even so there a strong VR comunity on it, there even servers with fixed configurations to avoid the lack of interface just aimed to VR players.

The interface issue was a big topic in the VR comunity, some games just put 3d objets in the world so you can aim and click over the options, then some games used transparent objets to render the menus as a texture on it, and there the case of Live for Speed.

Live for speed is very special on his interface, you just are in the cars cockpit and by hitting the options key the options menu appear floating over the daskboard of your car like a sfi movie and you can click on it with your mouse, this virtual menus can be moved foward-backward, aspect-ratio changed and even you can set a custom FOV for them.

Anyway... I see no problem, cant wait to try it !


About the gunsight:

The first time that I saw this was in War of Thunder, and I guess that by extension is the same problem.

The issue is that to create the reflection ilussion in which the gunsig moves with you the game render the gunsight in a plane in which his position in the 3d space is defined by the player.

But in VR you are rendering the game from two diferents positions, one per eye, so then two gunsigs appears.

If you close an eye you only see one but with eyes open there two of them.


War of Thunder fixed this time ago, I guess they added two oposed offsets to the gunsig, one per eye, so the two gunsigs converge in the center or something like that, I dont know.

9./JG26_Brigg
Feb-22-2016, 15:43
TF as a whole does :salute:

amen to that

ATAG_Colander
Feb-22-2016, 16:15
About the gunsight:

The first time that I saw this was in War of Thunder, and I guess that by extension is the same problem.

The issue is that to create the reflection ilussion in which the gunsig moves with you the game render the gunsight in a plane in which his position in the 3d space is defined by the player.

But in VR you are rendering the game from two diferents positions, one per eye, so then two gunsigs appears.

If you close an eye you only see one but with eyes open there two of them.


War of Thunder fixed this time ago, I guess they added two oposed offsets to the gunsig, one per eye, so the two gunsigs converge in the center or something like that, I dont know.

Thanks but that is not the issue. The gunsight is rendered (as far as I can tell) the right way.
The problem I see is two fold:
1.- The size of the reflector window does not allow for viewing the whole sight with both eyes. It is more noticeable in the 109 than in the spit.
Perhaps this could be fixed by allowing more "lean forward" movement. Using the "lean to sight" has three problems: A) it changes the FOV which is a nono in VR. B) Is kind of hard to press the keys. C) Is more natural to just lean forward.
2.- The change of eye focus. When you look at the sight, the first think your eyes focus on is the device itself which is at an arms length but the reflected sight is at a much further distance.
Changing the focus between near and far feels uncomfortable. I did a quick test with a hand mirror and the effect is about the same. This is why I'm wondering if the offset sight on the 109 was so you only see it with the right eye.

MJDixon
Feb-22-2016, 18:40
Has anyone with OR seen the images I posted?
If you did, I'm wondering what you think.

I managed to view the first picture on my DK2 with Runtime 0.601 in extended mode, the feeling of distance is very good as it felt as though the 109 was at a high altitude looking at the terrain bellow, though I couldn't really see the rest of the cockpit well due to the blurred peripheral vision in the Rift.

I then updated to Runtime 0.8 that gets rid of the extended stuff and ran it direct, using the Mozilla WebVR enabler (which I presume is the intended way to do it). But when using that one, the eye seperation seemed to be off, as I had a lot of double vision of close objects such as the gunsight and cockpit frames, which I could see two of, though I guess that might be because my IPD (72mm) is outside of the DK2 range or some such.

My eyes seemed to adjust to it eventually and merge the images together, but that ended up being blurry so it was hard to make a good assessment, though the Spitfire image seemed to work better than the others, probably due to it being a distance shot without much of the cockpit canopy or close-up items, and again the feeling of distance was very impressive. Then again maybe I'm just allergic to 109s. :laugh:

ATAG_Colander
Feb-22-2016, 19:23
Thanks.

My attempt to use WebVR has some issues.
If you see the images with black borders at the sides before entering VR mode, it will not show them properly aligned in VR.

By the way, there are more pics (5 in total) which you can move to with the arrows <- ->. They just take a few seconds to load.

ATAG_NakedSquirrel
Feb-23-2016, 12:25
Thanks but that is not the issue. The gunsight is rendered (as far as I can tell) the right way.
The problem I see is two fold:
1.- The size of the reflector window does not allow for viewing the whole sight with both eyes. It is more noticeable in the 109 than in the spit.
Perhaps this could be fixed by allowing more "lean forward" movement. Using the "lean to sight" has three problems: A) it changes the FOV which is a nono in VR. B) Is kind of hard to press the keys. C) Is more natural to just lean forward.
2.- The change of eye focus. When you look at the sight, the first think your eyes focus on is the device itself which is at an arms length but the reflected sight is at a much further distance.
Changing the focus between near and far feels uncomfortable. I did a quick test with a hand mirror and the effect is about the same. This is why I'm wondering if the offset sight on the 109 was so you only see it with the right eye.

Can you not lean forward as a Z axis like you can in trackir, or is the sight too small?

ATAG_Colander
Feb-23-2016, 14:21
Can you not lean forward as a Z axis like you can in trackir, or is the sight too small?

As I said
Perhaps this could be fixed by allowing more "lean forward" movement..
This is more noticeable in the 109. On a spit you seem to be able to lean forward a bit more and almost see the whole sight with both eyes.
On the 109 if you see it complete with one eye, you are only seeing it around 50% with the other.

In any case, the other question is still valid.
Try this:
Get a makeup mirror from your loved one, stand with your back near a window and look at something distant. You will notice how you have to change focus to look at the distant object and the mirror or your hand which is around at instruments distance.
Is an uncomfortable feeling that I wonder how it worked back then.

MJDixon
Feb-23-2016, 14:41
Would the lack of depth not influence this, as in real life if you focused on an aircraft in the distance it would make the closer objects blury, but with the Rift, although it's in 3d everything is still being rendered on a screen in front of your face.

Which is one of the reasons people want eye tracking for VR, so it can calculate what you're looking at and blur the bits of the screen that would be out of focus in real vision.

ATAG_Lewis
Feb-23-2016, 15:23
Great work Col...You are brilliant!!

The pics look very good on my home made google cardboard....I don't really know how to get the 'Demo' to work on it though....

I use a 'Samsung note 3' inside my google cardboard gadget....

Buchon
Feb-23-2016, 16:55
Thanks but that is not the issue. The gunsight is rendered (as far as I can tell) the right way.
The problem I see is two fold:
1.- The size of the reflector window does not allow for viewing the whole sight with both eyes. It is more noticeable in the 109 than in the spit.
Perhaps this could be fixed by allowing more "lean forward" movement. Using the "lean to sight" has three problems: A) it changes the FOV which is a nono in VR. B) Is kind of hard to press the keys. C) Is more natural to just lean forward.
2.- The change of eye focus. When you look at the sight, the first think your eyes focus on is the device itself which is at an arms length but the reflected sight is at a much further distance.
Changing the focus between near and far feels uncomfortable. I did a quick test with a hand mirror and the effect is about the same. This is why I'm wondering if the offset sight on the 109 was so you only see it with the right eye.

ohh, my fault, I just asumed that was the same problem and hurried on to repply.

I see it now...


The reflections sig are mean to be used in real life leaning foward, with the particularity of the 109 that have the plus that its mean to be used with one eye (really weird one usage here).

But you have to considerer that the madoxx team may be ajusted the sig distance to look fine in a monitor without have to lean foward, so now they look out of place in VR.



Would the lack of depth not influence this, as in real life if you focused on an aircraft in the distance it would make the closer objects blury, but with the Rift, although it's in 3d everything is still being rendered on a screen in front of your face.

Which is one of the reasons people want eye tracking for VR, so it can calculate what you're looking at and blur the bits of the screen that would be out of focus in real vision.

You can focus in VR, you have to perceive that one thing is focus with your eyes and other thing is move your eyes to look arround.

The blurry efect in the corners is caused by the curved nature of the lents, so cant be solved with Foveated rendering alone.

The main aplication of the Foveated rendering is not make the illusion of focus becouse if the steoscopic effect is good enought you can focus by your self in VR just like in real life, its the increased performance:

https://www.reddit.com/r/oculus/comments/3bls3q/unity_foveated_rendering_test_4x_fps_increase/


One of the things that I learned from VR is that every efect or illusion that happen in real life happens in VR too but with increassed intensity, the motion sickness proves that in a negative way.

I will put an example of this and focus with something that happen to me testing VR:

Testing Asseto Corsa I have loaded The Lotus-Renault F1 car in Spa to have an spin but having the oculus on and just being there in the cockpit of my F1 car I realized that something is going wrong, I see two antenas in the nose of my F1 car instead only one !!

I through that may be is the IPD or just the face distance mechanism that was misplaced or something, so I went rechecking everything, but everything was rigth ¿¿??

So I loaded the circuit again with my F1 car but they are there again, two blurry antennas in the nose of my F1 car instead only one, WTF !!

While thinking that something is broken then just realized what is happening, I tried to focus on it and then the two blurry antennas become one perfect defined antena just in front of me, and every thing blurry in the process.

What I was experiencing is simple, to explain that just grab a pen rigth now and put near of your face and focus on it, then focus in your screen and the pen will become two.

That illusion was just reproducing in front of me in VR but with an intensity and clarity that at the first time I through that was a bug or something.

You can focus in VR, if everything is done rigth.


In fact we have a good oportunity to try some VR experiment here with the 109 gunsig, in real life its mean to be used with one eye so if everything is in place ... how it looks like ? ... omg I want to try that for sure.

MJDixon
Feb-23-2016, 17:24
Fair enough, I can't say I've ever really sat down and thought of how it works before it was brought up in this thread, even though I have a DK2 myself, but you seem to know what's what.

Have you tried running any other VR WW2 sims, like DCS 109 for example, that way you could see if it's something that happens with all VR 109s?

ATAG_Colander
Feb-23-2016, 17:25
While thinking that something is broken then just realized what is happening, I tried to focus on it and then the two blurry antennas become one perfect defined antena just in front of me, and every thing blurry in the process.

That is the issue with the gunsight. Since is at a much further distance than everything in the cockpit, the far/near focus change is hard.

A little clarification for those without VR:
There are 2 types of focus:
1.- The lens in your eye adjusting for focal distances. This is why you need glasses.
2.- The viewing angle of your eyes adjusting for distances. This is like the gun convergence.

#1 does not happen in VR as everything is rendered on a 2D screen.
#2 is what your eyes have to do.

Now, normally your brain is used to doing both at the same time and expect that, if you are focusing #1 and #2 on a close object, a far object will appear twice AND blurred.
What is missing is the blurred part so the brain needs some retraining for VR.

Buchon
Feb-23-2016, 17:42
Fair enough, I can't say I've ever really sat down and thought of how it works before it was brought up in this thread, even though I have a DK2 myself, but you seem to know what's what.

Have you tried running any other VR WW2 sims, like DCS 109 for example, that way you could see if it's something that happens with all VR 109s?

Unfortunately the reallife have me busy, I had even no time to play with those screenshots, and my controllers need some maintenance, they are not funtional at the moment but my G27 was working thats why Asseto and LFS.

So had just time to just test DCS free version with a crappy PS4 controller and whach how looks like, I dont have the 109.

Toxin1
Feb-26-2016, 00:14
Great work!:thumbsup: I tested the images using Virtual Desktop and Chrome on my DK2. Everything in the center of the view area is clean, with some chromatic residual on the edges of the FOV. Very nice indeed. Looking forward to trying out the RC on the CV1 in April :-)

Blitzen
Feb-26-2016, 11:54
I'm curious :does "Gunsight View" work in O)culus rift/In this sim or any other for that matteer?:-)

ATAG_Colander
Feb-27-2016, 09:14
I'm curious :does "Gunsight View" work in O)culus rift/In this sim or any other for that matteer?:-)

Yes. It is nothing more than a "zoom" but of course don't look at something close. Imagine yourself looking through binoculars at the dashboard :D

ATAG_Colander
Feb-27-2016, 09:21
Last night I found my self almost breaking my neck looking around on a test 6x6 dogfight in SP (and I got shot like a rookie).
With TrackIR you turn your head only a bit and you are looking back. With this thing you really have to look back, and up, and sideways :)
Be prepared to have a sturdy chair, you'll need it :D


Loosing the contacts in a fight is very easy. It reminds me the comments made by pilots. One second you have a plane in front of you, the next one you have no idea where it is and back to the neck breaking dance.

One thing I really hope improves with the CV1 is the resolution. With the DK2, the low resolution and the "screen door" effect add up in a bad way.

About the GUI, expect for some minor details, it is working. The only problem is that the screen is too narrow to have all those windows open without them messing even more with the view.
One thing I'm testing is only showing them when you look at your legs and auto-hiding it when looking forward/up. Kind of like having a knee clipboard attached. It might end up being a good solution.

Ideas on this are welcome.

Mysticpuma
Feb-27-2016, 09:55
Hi Colander if I fly online against someone with OR, can you set it up.so the text and I formation windows appear on their view they get near me? I mean directly in front of the cockpit, preferably where my aircraft will bd behind the windows..... It's only a small fix....but essential for my survivability. Actually, can you do it for all enemy aircraft I am.up against even those without OR :)

Seriously though I think your solution seems quite elegant and practical.

Cheers, MP

MJDixon
Feb-27-2016, 17:59
Last night I found my self almost breaking my neck looking around on a test 6x6 dogfight in SP (and I got shot like a rookie).
With TrackIR you turn your head only a bit and you are looking back. With this thing you really have to look back, and up, and sideways :)
Be prepared to have a sturdy chair, you'll need it :D

Good thing you chaps fixed those mirrors then. :D

Chivas
Feb-27-2016, 20:03
I really like the idea of the windows popping up when looking down. As far as checking our six, its going to be very hard especially for the older among us. I've been thinking seriously of putting a swivel on my seat to make it easier to check six, as I'm certainly not as flexible as I used to be.

The resolution and SDE of the DK2 is certainly not good enough. Wags at DCS says the CV1 is like night and day better than the DK2, BUT no word yet if it is good enough for flight sims. Reading gauges shouldn't be a problem with the CV1, but spotting distant dots could still be a problem. We will have answers by the end of March.

♣_Spiritus_♣
Feb-28-2016, 00:01
I agree wth your solution, looking down to bring those windows up seems like a great solution. Chivas and myself are anxiously waiting for the end of March.

ATAG_NakedSquirrel
Feb-28-2016, 01:59
About the GUI, expect for some minor details, it is working. The only problem is that the screen is too narrow to have all those windows open without them messing even more with the view.
One thing I'm testing is only showing them when you look at your legs and auto-hiding it when looking forward/up. Kind of like having a knee clipboard attached. It might end up being a good solution.

Ideas on this are welcome.

That or a quick key to turn the GUI on and off would work great.


Probably a silly idea, but what about rendering the text in a 3d space? Perhaps being able to place GUI windows where it looks like they are on the seat below you, or even putting the chat out so it scrolls along one of your wings.

ATAG_Colander
Feb-28-2016, 21:13
For those wondering how the DK1, DK2 and CV1 compare, I found this little webpage today that helps explaining:
http://vr.mkeblx.net/oculus-sim/

♣_Spiritus_♣
Feb-28-2016, 22:02
Thanks for that link, interesting to use.

You probably don't need this but it may have some useful info in the forum/blog.

https://flyinside-fsx.com/

ATAG_Colander
Feb-29-2016, 09:12
Thanks for that link, interesting to use.

You probably don't need this but it may have some useful info in the forum/blog.

https://flyinside-fsx.com/

Thx. I'm going to have to try supersampling and see how it goes:
http://i.imgur.com/Y7ei7Dx.jpg

Tempered
Feb-29-2016, 20:15
I'm curious :does "Gunsight View" work in O)culus rift/In this sim or any other for that matteer?:-)

In DCS 2 the gunsight for the P51D Mustang works perfectly. In the FW 190, the gunsight works, but there is an instant where if you move your head far to the right or the left, you will see the crosshair kind of jump to a new location. It's a bit odd because both locations seem to work equally as well for gunnery. I'm guessing that the "jump" is actually one eye losing sight of the crosshair.

MJDixon
Mar-01-2016, 10:12
I think that Oculus simulator might be out of date, as I remember using it when I was waiting for my DK2 - it has 2560 x 1440 as the CV1 resolution, where as the current CV1 specs are 2160 x 1200 (1080 x 1200 per eye).

Still an interesting tool to get the general feel though.

Topgum
Mar-09-2016, 10:01
@ chivas

...As far as checking our six, its going to be very hard especially for the older among us. I've been thinking seriously of putting a swivel on my seat to make it easier to check six, as I'm certainly not as flexible as I used to be.


Honestly, this is my biggest fear that the future immersion experience by the OR is affected by the rear-view difficulties.
While Humans have an almost 180-degree forward-facing horizontal diameter of their visual field (without even moving the eyeballs), the OR only has 110°.
That said, it means for us to do the same job as a 25 year old fighting ace without having FOV-limits by the Rift, while we got ~ 50 years meanwhile, additional handicaped by looking through a HMD-tunnel - seems quite impossible to me.

About your swivel-thing: Sounds good at the first moment, but every time you push the rudder by your pedals, you'll move on your chair and you'll change your position in reality and in VR. Operating Rudders precisely is very hard when your seat is moving. I suffered a lot of it last months while I was travelling and I couldn't fix my Rudder pedals stable on the ground - this must be the similar effect.

Maybe the solution would be using the 270° & 90°POV of a coliehat to move the VR-POV centre axis by 30-45° to each side when applied to compensate the "snorkel mask effect" of the OR? So we would get an easier rear ward view, when feasible?

@ Collander: I don't no neither if in the OR a kind of adjustment is possible, like in the Track-IR . To create a Profile which makes rear ward head movements a little bit progressive, unless you'll get motion sick ;-)?

For all those virtual airliners (e.g MS FSX) who have no interest to look at the safety cockpit door behind all the time, the OR must be OK.
But for us neurotic six o'clock checkers this StarVR 210 Degree VR Headset-system here would be possibly the better choice?
http://www.roadtovr.com/infiniteye-210-degree-vr-headset-becomes-star-vr-this-is-what-it-look-like-breaking/

cheers, TG

ATAG_Colander
Mar-09-2016, 10:33
In VR if the view does not match the movement, you end up :sick:

7./JG26_SMOKEJUMPER
Mar-09-2016, 17:12
. I did a quick test with a hand mirror and the effect is about the same. This is why I'm wondering if the offset sight on the 109 was so you only see it with the right eye.



Very likely. In precision target shooting we kept both eyes open to not ruin depth perception and to relax fully. Gloves/mitt on as well because your pulse can ruin the shot. Target jackets with straps all over. Cadets when I was a kid was still fun. They ruined it now. Poor little buggers don't even know how good it was. Damn I got the tail end it was well on the way. Army Cadets in the 50's got to fire Brens, drive tanks and get yelled at by Korean War vets. Anyway.....

This offset the way you describe it makes sense to me.

ATAG_Colander
Mar-09-2016, 17:41
FYI I'm reworking this.
I think I found a way to avoid having to render everything twice (which effectively cuts the FPS in half).
Is just an old trick of telling the graphics card to render twice without having to do it from the game engine. In theory, instead of 1/2 the FPS we should get something line 1/1.18

Needless to say is not going to be simple/easy.

Chivas
Mar-09-2016, 19:02
FYI I'm reworking this.
I think I found a way to avoid having to render everything twice (which effectively cuts the FPS in half).
Is just an old trick of telling the graphics card to render twice without having to do it from the game engine. In theory, instead of 1/2 the FPS we should get something line 1/1.18

Needless to say is not going to be simple/easy.

Wow, if you could get that to work, a lot of software/hardware developers will be VERY interested. :stunned:

Chivas
Mar-09-2016, 19:17
@ chivas


Honestly, this is my biggest fear that the future immersion experience by the OR is affected by the rear-view difficulties.
While Humans have an almost 180-degree forward-facing horizontal diameter of their visual field (without even moving the eyeballs), the OR only has 110°.
That said, it means for us to do the same job as a 25 year old fighting ace without having FOV-limits by the Rift, while we got ~ 50 years meanwhile, additional handicaped by looking through a HMD-tunnel - seems quite impossible to me.

About your swivel-thing: Sounds good at the first moment, but every time you push the rudder by your pedals, you'll move on your chair and you'll change your position in reality and in VR. Operating Rudders precisely is very hard when your seat is moving. I suffered a lot of it last months while I was travelling and I couldn't fix my Rudder pedals stable on the ground - this must be the similar effect.

Maybe the solution would be using the 270° & 90°POV of a coliehat to move the VR-POV centre axis by 30-45° to each side when applied to compensate the "snorkel mask effect" of the OR? So we would get an easier rear ward view, when feasible?

@ Collander: I don't no neither if in the OR a kind of adjustment is possible, like in the Track-IR . To create a Profile which makes rear ward head movements a little bit progressive, unless you'll get motion sick ;-)?

For all those virtual airliners (e.g MS FSX) who have no interest to look at the safety cockpit door behind all the time, the OR must be OK.
But for us neurotic six o'clock checkers this StarVR 210 Degree VR Headset-system here would be possibly the better choice?
http://www.roadtovr.com/infiniteye-210-degree-vr-headset-becomes-star-vr-this-is-what-it-look-like-breaking/

cheers, TG

Your right, a swivel seat would make rudder pedal use a huge concern. I haven't thought to much on how that could be alleviated, and will think about it more when I start flying again.

The FOV of these headsets is an issue, but I have absolutely no interest in flying again with a monitor/TrackIR since trying the unsurpassed immersion of flight with a VR headset.

The Infiniteye could eventually be a very good flight sim headset, especially if they manage to get eye tracking working effectively. Infiniteye has the major issue of the computer necessary to drive that many pixels. This could be alleviated by only showing high detail where the eyes are focused, but eyetracking and the complex computing on the displays aren't any easy problem to solve. My guess is Oculus/Vive will have their own versions of wide FOV, and eye tracking headsets out about the same time. Now if Colander can figure out how it won't be necessary to render an image twice in VR, that would be huge.

ATAG_Colander
Mar-09-2016, 19:22
Wow, if you could get that to work, a lot of software/hardware developers will be VERY interested. :stunned:

Is something that has been known for some time and is relatively simple.
The hard part (as everything with this MOD) is making it work without the source code :(

Topgum
Mar-10-2016, 07:18
In VR if the view does not match the movement, you end up :sick:
er.....I won't :sick: in your house

But seriously: Is it possible to define more than one POV in the OR, apart from the centred one, or not?

I am adult, with sole responsibility, experienced in the negative FX of motion sickness and I know when it happens it will be my own risk and it will be in my place ;-) IF I'll by the OR CV1

Topgum
Mar-10-2016, 07:30
The FOV of these headsets is an issue, but I have absolutely no interest in flying again with a monitor/TrackIR since trying the unsurpassed immersion of flight with a VR headset.

if I am hot for VR in Clod, too? :devilish: Oh yeah, man!
But there is no rose without a thorn, and that one of the OR will be either to break your neck in RL or to be "Fokker fodder" in VR:(

The Infiniteye could eventually be a very good flight sim headset, especially if they manage to get eye tracking working effectively. Infiniteye has the major issue of the computer necessary to drive that many pixels. This could be alleviated by only showing high detail where the eyes are focused, but eyetracking and the complex computing on the displays aren't any easy problem to solve.

sad, but true:ind:


My guess is Oculus/Vive will have their own versions of wide FOV, and eye tracking headsets out about the same time. Now if Colander can figure out how it won't be necessary to render an image twice in VR, that would be huge.

:) Amen:)

Salsam
Mar-10-2016, 08:02
Finally some OR love for CloD :-D
But I'm guessing it's not going to be 6DOF cockpits?

♣_Spiritus_♣
Mar-10-2016, 08:09
Exciting to watch Colander, appreciate all your work. :salute:

ATAG_Colander
Mar-10-2016, 08:15
Finally some OR love for CloD :-D
But I'm guessing it's not going to be 6DOF cockpits?

First of all welcome to the forum.
Second, yes, cockpits in Cliffs are 3D (except some details that can be corrected/added) so 6DOF works.

ATAG_Colander
Mar-10-2016, 08:16
I am adult, with sole responsibility, experienced in the negative FX of motion sickness and I know when it happens it will be my own risk and it will be in my place ;-) IF I'll by the OR CV1

There's a way.
I should be able to have the hat switch working at the same time as head tracking so you should be able to look back and then further back with the hat switch.

Topgum
Mar-10-2016, 08:27
There's a way.
I should be able to have the hat switch working at the same time as head tracking so you should be able to look back and then further back with the hat switch.


:kiss:

rel4y
Mar-10-2016, 09:22
Hey Colander!

First of all, you rock! VR support for CloD is huge! :) Second, that little trick you are talking about wouldnt work for mirrors as well, would it? :salute:

Salsam
Mar-10-2016, 09:43
Wow thanks Colander, that's awesome!
6dof is as much needed for immersion as high fps and resolution.
Can't wait to try it out! :-)

Topgum
Mar-11-2016, 09:41
@ all those, who use the DK2 for testing Cliffs:

I am very curious to know whether motion sickness occurs, when switching from the cockpit view to an external one? If yes, it could concern taking Screen shots. And anyway Cliffs looks so beautiful in external views, that wouldn't like to miss it.

Anybody OK for testing it for me/us?( I reject any responsibility for being charged for room-cleaning;-) )

Tempered
Mar-11-2016, 21:34
@ all those, who use the DK2 for testing Cliffs:

I am very curious to know whether motion sickness occurs, when switching from the cockpit view to an external one? If yes, it could concern taking Screen shots. And anyway Cliffs looks so beautiful in external views, that wouldn't like to miss it.

Anybody OK for testing it for me/us?( I reject any responsibility for being charged for room-cleaning;-) )

I've never had any motion sickness issues with switching to an outside view in DCS flight sim or Elite Dangerous. I don't see why it would cause any motion sickness in CLOD.

Usually the motion sickness comes when there is lots of small movements in the sim that do not correspond to head movement. The buggy rides in Elite Dangerous, with the constant bouncing of the buggy, that causes me an extreme migraine headache, but flight never does. The head bob in some fps games will also cause it.

jaydee
Mar-12-2016, 02:23
you might find this interesting lads. ...http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/steamvr-performance-test-gpu-comparison,4489.html

Topgum
Mar-12-2016, 07:30
I've never had any motion sickness issues with switching to an outside view in DCS flight sim or Elite Dangerous. I don't see why it would cause any motion sickness in CLOD...

Thank you, Tempered,:salute:
this sounds very promising. I imagine that it feels like being an eagle looking from an external view to our birds. It could be a very interesting perspective to look at a dogfight as a flying spectator.

There might be some hope of suffering not to much from motion sickness for my suggestion from above, to solve the checking-six issue given by the snorkel mask effect by applying more than one POV in your virtual Cockpit. That's my cautious interpretation from your experience.

Blitzen
Mar-17-2016, 13:40
This is probably one of those "Doh" questions but...with these VR goggles on how in the world do you view your keyboard to hit the keystroke commands? Also I see on the Oculus website that there will be hand controllers available at some point as well.They appear to have 3-4 buttons each that will do some of the throttle/keyboard work, but I wouldn't think be all that effective in a flight sim.
BTW there is quite an active discussion overe at BoS Forum today with the announcement that at some future date that sim will be going 64 bit & that may have some effect whether that sim might be more VR user friendly. Any thoughts?:-)

ATAG_Colander
Mar-17-2016, 13:46
64 bits is 99% just a compiler option change.
Moving from DX9 to DX11 will take a more effort.

Blitzen
Mar-17-2016, 14:02
64 bits is 99% just a compiler option change.
Moving from DX9 to DX11 will take a more effort.
Another stupid question :does CloD have 64 bit? Is that why we can "fly" much more complex ( in terms of aircraft & objects) than BoS can so far or is it a different "engine" that handles more objects in motion that what they have chosen at BoS & soon to be released BoM? Just wondering...:goofy

♣_Spiritus_♣
Mar-17-2016, 15:01
As far as seeing the keys, I think most people will have a HOTAS and switches they rely on an probably have memorized. That is my plan anyway. 11 days and counting!

MJDixon
Mar-18-2016, 07:57
As for hand controllers, I would think something that tracks your hands without the need of a physical controller (something such as Leap Motion, or a tracking glove) would be better for Flight Sims than the Oculus Touch or Vive Controllers, as you would have to drop them when you need to use your stick, then pick them up again to click on your cockpit, though even there you'd have a disconnect between where your hands are on your real stick, and where the game thinks your virtual hands are, unless your stick was in exactly the same position as the one in-game, and with the same layout.

Plus thats for sims that implement hand tracking, of course.

Speaking of tracking, it would be hillarious if, in order to bail out you had to actually jump out of your seat (seeing as it knows where you are now), though no doubt people would just take off their headset and throw it across the room. :laugh:

Oersted
Mar-18-2016, 10:08
Last night I found my self almost breaking my neck looking around on a test 6x6 dogfight in SP (and I got shot like a rookie).
With TrackIR you turn your head only a bit and you are looking back. With this thing you really have to look back, and up, and sideways :)
Be prepared to have a sturdy chair, you'll need it :D

Loosing the contacts in a fight is very easy. It reminds me the comments made by pilots. One second you have a plane in front of you, the next one you have no idea where it is and back to the neck breaking dance.

One thing I really hope improves with the CV1 is the resolution. With the DK2, the low resolution and the "screen door" effect add up in a bad way.

About the GUI, expect for some minor details, it is working. The only problem is that the screen is too narrow to have all those windows open without them messing even more with the view.
One thing I'm testing is only showing them when you look at your legs and auto-hiding it when looking forward/up. Kind of like having a knee clipboard attached. It might end up being a good solution.

Ideas on this are welcome.

Fantastic news on your Oculus rift integration work, Colander!

It is true that VR glasses demand more physical effort than TrackIR. I think that is great because it approximates our sim experience more to the real thing. Now we just miss the g-forces... It would perhaps be a good idea to have server-side recognition of OR online users built in so you can join OR-only multiplayer maps. Only neck-breaker VR players welcome, no TIR sissies :-)

The looking-down GUI idea is a great one.

Cannot wait to try CoD in VR glory, it must be spectacular! As Chivas says, when you have tried VR no way you will want to go back. I myself tried War Thunder with my OR DevKit 1 a couple of years ago and my. mind. was. blown.

I wrote a little report and did a movie on it... http://www.flightsimvids.com/2013-10.Warthunder.with.Oculus.Rift/index.html
----------

October 2013

I have seen the future of flight simming.

...And in one word (well, two) it is: virtual reality.

I got my Oculus Rift Development Kit in the mail two days ago. What is it? Well, no more than a couple of smartphone screens in a box, a pair of thick lenses creating a wrap-around field of view, foam padding and a big old strap to hold the contraption on the head, plus some wiring and fancy software. The skimpy download that went with it basically just consists of a set-up proggie and a demo: a Villa in Tuscany you can walk around in.

As the interior of the villa appears on-screen the magic begins. And it is that most believable of magic: the understated art of just rendering what your brain expects, what you would see if you actually stood in the villa. Look up, ceiling beams, look down, terracotta tiles, look left, a fireplace, look right, a painting on the wall. The viewpoint follows your head movements exactly, with no delay. You're THERE. It may be a bit of a blurry world, because the resolution is quite limited, but the feeling is that of being transported to another place, and it is real. Obviously it doesn't look like a real villa, it is after all just a rather low-poly model with so-so textures. But the feeling of moving in a three-dimensional space is absolutely real: true-to-life visual stimuli that convincingly overpower your body's remaining sensory apparatus.

On to flying! Best bet seems to be War Thunder, an online arcade flying game which implemented Oculus Rift support a few months ago. A game I normally wouldn't touch with a ten-foot pole, but well, beggars can't be choosers, it supposedly has gorgeous graphics and is one of the few programs that support OR. At least it is free-to-play at the level where I want to use it, namely just flying around. A 5gig download and some jumping through hoops later, and I am ready for take-off, in a P-36 Peashooter parked at Pearl Harbor, Hawaii.

Let's get the downside out of the way first. Looking at the landscape, especially far-off bits, reminds you of one of those days where you leave your house and realise you forgot to put in your contact lenses. It is a somewhat blurry world, rather low-res, and no matter how much you squint you won't ever get details crisp and sharp. You're back in low-res, 1990s, European Air War territory, where objects first appear as indistinguishable blobs that later turn into pixelated shapes and only up close acquire recognisable features. Sounds rather underwhelming, doesn't it?

Well, it ISN'T! Because the illusion of being inside this make-believe world is totally real. The light and colours and depth are real, the heft and physicality of your cockpit, wing struts, fuselage and wings is absolutely real. As you roll along the runway on Hickam Field and slowly climb into the air, the sense of speed is visceral and very much felt in the seat of your pants. Shadows play in the cockpit and over the wings as you bank and turn inland towards the mountains. Approaching them, there is an almost dreadful sense of mass and humonguousness to them, with their high summits and deep valleys, covered in dense vegetation. You can't actually see the details of trees and shrubbery, but here you brain fills in the blanks, because the sense of being there is so real that the blurriness takes second place to the many other sensory inputs that quickly overload your system.

You see, it isn't just an emotionally detached, academic, non-corporeal flying experience. No, no it isn't. It is a strong, physical, pervasive, overwhelming and somewhat scary experience of hanging in a flimsy craft, suspended over a massive, foreboding rock-solid landscape. Gone is the TrackIR ease of swiftly turning to check six with just a flick of your head. Here you have to twist your whole body and fight your reclining chair as you struggle to get your rudder into view. And you better do it while flying straight and level, because if you do it in a steep bank it is highly disorienting and nausea-inducing. This is not just an intellectual exercise, this is stomach-churning reality, reminding me of when I've gone up in a real-world glider and chased thermals in gut-wrenching spirals.

The Hawaiian landscape is supremely impressive and gradually I overcome the bodily discomfort that first kept me looking straight forward, not taking in the view at all, but just trying to keep control of my bowels. I manage to look around and take in the vertical cliff-faces, clouds clinging to mountain ridges, sunlit uplands and dark canyons. It is a fabulous playground to explore in three dimensions and I gradually engage in evermore daring maneuvers. The feeling of flight remains as visceral and physical as before but now I can begin to enjoy it. Climbing over a ridge, half-rolling and zooming downwards, inverted, in a vertiginous screaming dive is almost too much, but only almost. Popping over the edge, flipping on your back and seeing the deep chasm falling away below is terrifying, but the rush of following the mountain wall down and pulling out just above the palm fronds in the valley below is something I've never experienced in flight simming before.

How can it be so intensely physical, yet based on a mere visual input? I just sit in my office chair and yet I am getting clammy hands, cold sweat on my forehead and tension that tires my back and shoulder muscles? I think it must be because the illusion of being in a real space is totally convincing. All the little neurons, embedded in our brains since a distant caveman past, are firing like crazy and telling us that "HEY, you are in a highly dangerous situation here!" Booming and zooming around a jagged mountainscape is NOT a normal thing to do! Get down! So, based on pure visual stimuli, the body thinks it is falling, gyrating, accelerating, in a most unnatural manner. Flying, in short. And let me tell you: it is a level of excitement not seen in flight simming until now. The excitement, almost too much, almost unbearable, of actually, really hurtling through space. Welcome to the future of flight simming. It is stunningly intense and it will only get better.

----------

Tempered
Mar-20-2016, 16:21
Seeing the keyboard is a big problem while using an HMD. HOTAS helps, and if you have a dedicated switch panel for most functions, you can easily remember the switch locations without having to remove the HMD. Some people try to peek through the ventilation holes in the DK2 to see the keyboard. It works, but is not a great solution. The best solution would be a combination of HOTAS, switch panels, and interactive cockpit. In Elite: Dangerous, just about every function can be accessed through in cockpit menus, or assigned to a HOTAS setup, so you never really have to take off the HMD. For a complex flight sim like DCS, you really can't avoid having to lift up the HMD to see the keyboard.

As far as the check six problem, we flight simmers have been cheating all these years. You really can't see much behind you from within the tiny cockpit of a warbird unless you stick your head through the canopy. At least that's the impression I get from trying it with the DK2 in a DCS P51. A snap view on the hat to keep from straining your neck would work okay, but you are still going to have the pilots headrest blocking your view.

I feel like I must warn you guys, however, that as cool as it is to fly with an HMD, you really need to think twice before spending $600 or so for one. I've found that the 3D feeling wears off after time and it just feels like a large screen attached to your head. I guess your brain learns to not believe the visuals without the motion feed back. The flawless head tracking is still a big plus, however.

E69_Mezzer
Mar-20-2016, 17:58
I've been following this thread with great interest since Colander announced the impressive progress achieved to provide VR for clod, great work indeed!!.
I just want to share a youtube video that I think reflects well the current state of the VR technology for those who are interested.
Salute to all.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dD0uV_WHvg

Chivas
Mar-20-2016, 19:16
There is some very misleading information in that older review. Both headset use OLED displays with the same resolution, except that Oculus partner Samsung created a more refined custom VR display for the Rift. The reviewer is right in some sense in that future VR headsets will be far better, and we still don't know if the first consumer versions will be good enough for flight sims. All I've heard from Wags, one of the developers for DCS is that the CVI Rift is a day and night improvement over the DK2.

If you want room scale VR now then Vive is a very good choice, but if you have been paying attention to some reviewers who aren't totally blinded by their interest in the room scale, and the Vive wands you'd know that the Rift includes more refined custom VR displays with less SDE, more refined optics with a larger sweetspot, and more refined balanced ergonomics to make the headset feel lighter for longer periods of time. Not to mention that the Touch VR inputs will also be more refined when they are released later this year.

As primarily a flight simmer, the Rift was the easy choice, but it still remains to be seen if these headset are good enough for the long distance viewing required in this genre. The current consumer versions are very good for racing sims, and most users are finding that they race far better, as they have a much better feel for breaking, etc thru the corners.

Its very very early days in VR, but many many people if they can afford it, will enjoy what VR has to offer now rather than waiting. Personally I'm way to old to wait.

ATAG_Colander
Mar-23-2016, 22:15
A little update on the trick to not get half the FPS by not doing a full render twice :D

This is far from ready as there are still many changes to be made but the biggest culprits are there, namely the buildings and the clouds.
This is running with everything on max on an nVidia 970 running on top of a 6 years old i7.

21740

Notice the 25 FPS.
On single render (with half the resolution because of half the screen needed) I get 30 FPS. In other words, so far, I'm only getting a reduction in FPS of 16.6% instead of the original 50% by double rendering.

PS1: Just to reiterate in case it wasn't clear enough... This is far from ready and that's why you'll notice coloring issues among other things :D
PS2: Don't try to see the 3D effect as this still flat since I haven't gotten to the part where I render different perspectives (see PS1 above)
PS3: This image has been scaled. The real resolution is twice the size but it didn't make sense to waste bandwidth when the graphics is not what I'm trying to show.

♣_Spiritus_♣
Mar-26-2016, 08:27
@Colander,

Not sure if you've heard or what this will do for you but big announcement from Oculus, they seem to have baked ATW into their latest runtime.

https://developer.oculus.com/blog/asynchronous-timewarp-on-oculus-rift/

ATAG_Colander
Mar-26-2016, 08:38
@Colander,

Not sure if you've heard or what this will do for you but big announcement from Oculus, they seem to have baked ATW into their latest runtime.

https://developer.oculus.com/blog/asynchronous-timewarp-on-oculus-rift/

I'm waiting for the 1.3 SDK to be released (the 28th I think). Hopefully it works with the DK2.
Anyway, I'm using timewarp already since is a must with the low FPS we get on Cliffs :D

ATAG_Colander
Mar-28-2016, 19:56
Argh!!! with the new SDK many things have changed.
Basically I have to rewrite the Oculus code.

♣_Spiritus_♣
Mar-29-2016, 00:21
Argh!!! with the new SDK many things have changed.
Basically I have to rewrite the Oculus code.

:smash:

Too frustrating!

Have you seen the new runtime that is getting released with the CV1?

Salmo
Mar-29-2016, 05:31
I did a quick test of my system using SteamVR performance tester, with several other apps running simultaneaously in the background & got a surprise. I hit a 7.2 score, I'm hoping this means my old system is good enough to handle VR.

http://i.imgur.com/AMMv2Xi.jpg

Wolf
Mar-29-2016, 07:27
8.7! videocard the difference. looks like we have same pc

21885

how do you make your pics big in the thread?

ATAG_Lolsav
Mar-29-2016, 07:40
how do you make your pics big in the thread?

You take BIG PICTUREs :D

Now seriously, you have to insert the proper "code", as in:


[ img ]http://puthelinkofimage.JPG[ /img ]

without the "spaces" between the brackets

ATAG_Colander
Mar-29-2016, 09:48
Have you seen the new runtime that is getting released with the CV1?

Yes. It even runs with the DK2 with only one tiny problem. Since I don't have the controller, I can't click on anything the new home asks for.

MJDixon
Mar-29-2016, 20:04
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e322/mike_dixon3/VRPerformance_zpskeznkboj.png~original

I guess I'd better upgrade to a GTX 580 then. :laugh:

=FI=Murph
Mar-30-2016, 00:36
MJDixon, perhaps it's because they are using windows 10?

MJDixon
Mar-30-2016, 07:06
Maybe, I'll have to see what it shows after I get around to upgrading to Windows 10.

To be honest though I wouldn't expect a GTX 780 to be 'VR Ready' anyway, given that Oculus recommend a GTX 970 or up for the CV1, though the GTX 580 reading seems to throw that somewhat.

I'm planning on upgrading my GPU in a few months anyway, or whenever the new lot come out - in order to have a chance of ever running Star Citizen at 90 FPS in VR. :laugh:

♣_Spiritus_♣
Mar-30-2016, 10:08
Where is mine! Gahhhh

http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=21891&d=1459346929.jpg

21891

ATAG_Colander
Mar-30-2016, 11:41
Alright, small update...

It is working with Oculus 1.3 runtime now but there's a little problem with how the automatic timewarp works because of the game ability to zoom in and out.
I will need to do some testing and experimentation on this.

Chivas
Mar-30-2016, 14:17
Just upgraded from a GTX580 to the GTX980TI with the newest drivers, to get ready for the CV1. Started COD but the prop is flashing like crazy. I guess I will have to do a driver clean up, or go back to a previous driver.

Received an email from Oculus stating the Rift will ship in 1 to 3 weeks.

ATAG_Colander
Mar-30-2016, 14:33
Just upgraded from a GTX580 to the GTX980TI with the newest drivers, to get ready for the CV1. Started COD but the prop is flashing like crazy. I guess I will have to do a driver clean up, or go back to a previous driver.

Received an email from Oculus stating the Rift will ship in 1 to 3 weeks.

Try clearing the cache so the shaders get recompiled with the new driver.

Chivas
Mar-30-2016, 16:24
Try clearing the cache so the shaders get recompiled with the new driver.

Tried clearing the cache, and reinstalling drivers, to no avail. I was getting over 380fps, but the prop flashed, with moving horizontal lines, so I turned on Vsync which cured the problem. That said can Vsync be set to 90fps instead of 60fps, for VR purposes?

ATAG_Colander
Mar-30-2016, 16:32
Tried clearing the cache, and reinstalling drivers, to no avail. I was getting over 380fps, but the prop flashed, with moving horizontal lines, so I turned on Vsync which cured the problem. That said can Vsync be set to 90fps instead of 60fps, for VR purposes?

Vsync depends on the monitor.
Standard monitors refresh at 60, Oculus DK2 at 75 and CV1 at 90 so just by setting vsync to on should be enough.

Chivas
Mar-30-2016, 18:39
Vsync depends on the monitor.
Standard monitors refresh at 60, Oculus DK2 at 75 and CV1 at 90 so just by setting vsync to on should be enough.

Thanks Co, that makes sense.:doh:

Are you having to turn down the graphics to hit close to 75fps in VR with your 970.

ATAG_Dave
Mar-30-2016, 19:09
Thanks Co, that makes sense.:doh:

Are you having to turn down the graphics to hit close to 75fps in VR with your 970.

I dont know if this is relevant for the OR but for many (tho not all) who have gtx970 cards find that switching vsync off and switching anti epilepsy filter (in game) to on works very well. Great FPS and no visual issues. Might be worth a try?

Chivas
Mar-30-2016, 19:34
I dont know if this is relevant for the OR but for many (tho not all) who have gtx970 cards find that switching vsync off and switching anti epilepsy filter (in game) to on works very well. Great FPS and no visual issues. Might be worth a try?

Thanks Dave, that worked very well. Averaged around 140fps while letting a number of AI fighters attack a stream of bombers in one of the packaged missions, with no problems. All setting VERY HIGH, except AA. Not sure yet if its good enough yet, as that frame rate will drop considerably with a VR headset.

ATAG_Colander
Mar-30-2016, 19:44
I'm getting 100+ over water but I'm doing all my testing over London with everything maxed where it drops to 30's.

As for the drop when in VR, if what I'm trying to do works as it's been working so far, the drop would be of around 15% or 18% so having 140 will mean around 107 when in VR.

But again, the big issue is over a fully populated city. Hopefully ATW helps in those situations.

Chivas
Mar-30-2016, 22:48
Well over 400fps over water VERY HIGH setting in the first Quick Mission.
As low as 40fps over London on VERY HIGH settings in the London Quick Mission. Only viewing below the horizon where all you see is cockpit/wing/buildings. Its of course goes much higher if some sky is visible.

BUT when I turned down the settings to MEDIUM then the frames shot back to averaging well over 250 fps over London. Again by only viewing below the horizon. Which suggests that all else being equal VR could be possible in COD, atleast as far as frame rates are concerned.

Thanks Colander it would have no chance without you and Team Fusion.

~Salute~
Chivas

edit...I hate flying at lower settings, but if I had too I would, as VR is that good.

♣_Spiritus_♣
Mar-30-2016, 23:49
Alright, small update...

It is working with Oculus 1.3 runtime now but there's a little problem with how the automatic timewarp works because of the game ability to zoom in and out.
I will need to do some testing and experimentation on this.

Excellent! Like Chivas said, thanks again for your all your work.

@Chivas, 1 to 3 weeks! Where is my email damnit!

Oersted
Mar-31-2016, 05:06
Colander, will you get your hands on the OR consumer version anytime soon?

ATAG_Lolsav
Mar-31-2016, 06:34
edit...I hate flying at lower settings, but if I had too I would, as VR is that good.

Satisfy my curiosity: When you say "lower settings", do they look like Minecraft (https://www.google.pt/search?q=image+Minecraft&tbm=isch&imgil=_jbQFntrSYodwM%253A%253BW4VKZ7PPMZWSuM%253Bh ttps%25253A%25252F%25252Fstore.xbox.com%25252Fpt-BR%25252FXbox-One%25252FGames%25252FMinecraft-Xbox-One-Edition%25252F582e7bcc-11bc-4702-ab1b-b31566f8e327&source=iu&pf=m&fir=_jbQFntrSYodwM%253A%252CW4VKZ7PPMZWSuM%252C_&usg=__FbaF6-QmzXEQulyuns3PiDPkGt0%3D&biw=1024&bih=618&ved=0ahUKEwiF9-nY3OrLAhVMORoKHdT9AEcQyjcIMg&ei=-fz8VsWWMMzyaNT7g7gE#imgrc=_) or something?

ATAG_Colander
Mar-31-2016, 09:39
Colander, will you get your hands on the OR consumer version anytime soon?

Nope.

ATAG_Colander
Mar-31-2016, 11:36
CV1 teardown:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfZx_jthHM4

Chivas
Mar-31-2016, 12:02
Satisfy my curiosity: When you say "lower settings", do they look like Minecraft (https://www.google.pt/search?q=image+Minecraft&tbm=isch&imgil=_jbQFntrSYodwM%253A%253BW4VKZ7PPMZWSuM%253Bh ttps%25253A%25252F%25252Fstore.xbox.com%25252Fpt-BR%25252FXbox-One%25252FGames%25252FMinecraft-Xbox-One-Edition%25252F582e7bcc-11bc-4702-ab1b-b31566f8e327&source=iu&pf=m&fir=_jbQFntrSYodwM%253A%252CW4VKZ7PPMZWSuM%252C_&usg=__FbaF6-QmzXEQulyuns3PiDPkGt0%3D&biw=1024&bih=618&ved=0ahUKEwiF9-nY3OrLAhVMORoKHdT9AEcQyjcIMg&ei=-fz8VsWWMMzyaNT7g7gE#imgrc=_) or something?

I selected MEDIUM settings in the game options, so you can do the same, and take a look. At first blush they looked ok to me, but I was looking more at the frame counter, and keeping my view below the horizon. That said my eyesight is shite anyway.
edit..... if you meant while using VR goggles....its crap in DCS with the DK2...but there is still hope for the CV1. I no longer have the DK2, I was just doing frame rate tests with my new 980TI, to see if the frames might be good enough for VR.

ATAG_Lolsav
Mar-31-2016, 12:10
I selected MEDIUM settings in the game options, so you can do the same, and take a look. At first blush they looked ok to me, but I was looking more at the frame counter, and keeping my view below the horizon. That said my eyesight is shite anyway.

I have no OR of any kind. But from what i have read, since the images are rendered closer to the eye and on dual screens, the lower resolution doesnt affect the immersion (from diffrent reviews i have read). This is why i was asking about the "lower resolution" in CLOD , which i guess i have mistaken with "Medium" settings in game, which is completely diffrent. The first affects the size of pixels and the other affects the ammount and quality of the objects ingame. That said, even with your bad eye, what can you report from the "immersion" factor?

ATAG_Colander
Mar-31-2016, 12:33
There are 2 problems with current VR:
1.- The lower resolution does affect games like Cliffs since spotting distant contacts and identifying closer ones can be a lot harder.
2.- The screen door effect (which is supposed to be improved in CV1) adds to the above. A black dot against the blue sky is now a black dot against a bunch of blue pixels with black border.


Chivas, regarding the FPS...
Try max settings but only change the buildings amount. I think the FPS killer over London is the amount of buildings.

ATAG_Lolsav
Mar-31-2016, 12:40
A black dot against the blue sky is now a black dot against a bunch of blue pixels with black border.

I will assume the quoted sentence is the reason why it appears to be so important to have higher resolution on this device. On current monitors its nice to have "pretty" representations of aircrafts. On OR it will be a requirement to spot a contact.

ATAG_Colander
Mar-31-2016, 13:55
This is more or less how I think the CV1 will look.
21899

3 contacts shown.

ATAG_Snapper
Mar-31-2016, 14:55
Uh oh! Rift rash! Oculus Face! :stunned:

Do these things ship with air sickness bags? LOL

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3517067/Beware-perils-Oculus-face-VR-headset-leaves-embarrassing-red-marks-cause-wearers-feel-seasick.html

ATAG_Colander
Mar-31-2016, 15:16
Do these things ship with air sickness bags? LOL

Oh yeah. When I tried it in Cliffs without the timewarp, I got seasick in 5 seconds flat. Took me around 30 seconds to be able to walk but the nausea lasted a bit longer :)

This is why is so important to have good FPS. When the head moves at a different speed than the image, the brain gets all f%#$ up :)

It also happens if you "walk" sideways with the keyboard when your body knows you are not moving. Is a strange feeling to say the least :D

ATAG_Lolsav
Mar-31-2016, 15:40
3 contacts shown.

2 togheter and 1 to their 11 oclock high? Was all i could (with effort) see.

ATAG_Colander
Mar-31-2016, 16:01
2 togheter and 1 to their 11 oclock high? Was all i could (with effort) see.

Close enough. For the third one I had to increase contrast with an image editor even before applying all the "oculus" distortions :)

MJDixon
Mar-31-2016, 19:44
Uh oh! Rift rash! Oculus Face! :stunned:

Do these things ship with air sickness bags? LOL

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3517067/Beware-perils-Oculus-face-VR-headset-leaves-embarrassing-red-marks-cause-wearers-feel-seasick.html

If only it did cost £417. :laugh:

And if I'm not violently ill after the first few attempts at flying crazy aerobatic manoeuvers then VR clearly isn't realistic enough! :P

Chivas
Mar-31-2016, 19:52
There are 2 problems with current VR:
1.- The lower resolution does affect games like Cliffs since spotting distant contacts and identifying closer ones can be a lot harder.
2.- The screen door effect (which is supposed to be improved in CV1) adds to the above. A black dot against the blue sky is now a black dot against a bunch of blue pixels with black border.


Chivas, regarding the FPS...
Try max settings but only change the buildings amount. I think the FPS killer over London is the amount of buildings.

OK...Buildings from UNLIMITED to HIGH and averaged 100fps, with view below horizon.
Buildings from HIGH to MEDIUM averaged 130fps

Chivas
Mar-31-2016, 20:08
I have no OR of any kind. But from what i have read, since the images are rendered closer to the eye and on dual screens, the lower resolution doesnt affect the immersion (from diffrent reviews i have read). This is why i was asking about the "lower resolution" in CLOD , which i guess i have mistaken with "Medium" settings in game, which is completely diffrent. The first affects the size of pixels and the other affects the ammount and quality of the objects ingame. That said, even with your bad eye, what can you report from the "immersion" factor?

I found the VR immersion factor so significant, that I have no interest in flying with one monitor or three monitors. I'm not alone in that regard as many people have suggested the same thing after experiencing flying in VR. You look down thru the clouds, you actually feel the height/depth. Landings are much easier since you have a much more accurate since of depth.

My guess is that reading gauges will be much easier with the CV1, while spotting distant aircraft could still be a problem. DCS has a new distant aircraft setting to make spotting distant aircraft a little easier. I think its some type of logo/Decal in the shape of an aircraft, that disappears when the actual shape of the aircraft can be seen. I haven't tried it yet so can't comment on how well it works.

ATAG_Colander
Mar-31-2016, 20:34
OK...Buildings from UNLIMITED to HIGH and averaged 100fps, with view below horizon.
Buildings from HIGH to MEDIUM averaged 130fps

Yep, I think that will be the solution.

♣_Spiritus_♣
Apr-01-2016, 02:18
I found the VR immersion factor so significant, that I have no interest in flying with one monitor or three monitors. I'm not alone in that regard as many people have suggested the same thing after experiencing flying in VR. You look down thru the clouds, you actually feel the height/depth. Landings are much easier since you have a much more accurate since of depth.

My guess is that reading gauges will be much easier with the CV1, while spotting distant aircraft could still be a problem. DCS has a new distant aircraft setting to make spotting distant aircraft a little easier. I think its some type of logo/Decal in the shape of an aircraft, that disappears when the actual shape of the aircraft can be seen. I haven't tried it yet so can't comment on how well it works.

I've tried them all, if it is the same thing you are talking about. Large is ridiculous, so is medium, it makes BF-109's look like Star Destroyers from 15 miles away. Small actually works really well, just a slight bump from far away which makes spotting and keeping on target much easier and you can barely tell the difference, it looks realistic unlike the other settings.

Topgum
Apr-01-2016, 05:01
Colander, will you get your hands on the OR consumer version anytime soon?

Hey all there. What about crowdfunding to pay a CV1 for Collander. I guess it makes his work easier?
I'll pay 50§ in the fund....what do you think?
PS: I am also selfish ... at least a little bit:devilish:

ATAG_Colander
Apr-01-2016, 10:36
Hey all there. What about crowdfunding to pay a CV1 for Collander. I guess it makes his work easier?
I'll pay 50§ in the fund....what do you think?
PS: I am also selfish ... at least a little bit:devilish:

Thanks Topgum but TF can't accept money.

ATAG_Colander
Apr-01-2016, 11:46
This is VERY promising!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RKh0B4SNp8

Topgum
Apr-01-2016, 12:49
This is VERY promising!!!

:stunned::stunned::stunned:

ATAG_Lolsav
Apr-01-2016, 13:22
This is VERY promising!!!

Indeed, specially with what you have been working on lately. For us flight simmers, a set with OR and this... wow, just wow.

MJDixon
Apr-01-2016, 20:56
Soon (tm)

http://www.roadtovr.com/samsungs-new-headphones-trick-your-inner-ear-to-move-you-in-vr/

Topgum
Apr-03-2016, 11:13
Wow, what a mind blowing weekend! First the fantastic Update from MP and then that mind blowing motion-experience-head-strap-device-news.
It makes me euphoric and sleepless. Imagine how cool would that be doing barrel-rolls with this stuff - do we need straps? The girl using the Samsung-HMD in the VR-roller-coaster obviously tends to need them.
OK, here comes a little bit VR-fiction:
Once, I'll get an HMD and when I'll put it on together with the inner ear stimulation device, I jump in VR-Spit cockpit, turn on the magnetos, start the engine, a smell from engine exhaust, coming from lawnmower next to me (because of the lack of perfume spray which can do that) , reaches my nose and the Propeller starts to turn simultaneous with big fan synchronised in front of me on the desktop. I taxi out to the runway (don't forget to turn the lawnmower off once you are out of the hangar) and I take off - the fan is turning at it's maxi speed. I close the canopy and immediately all is quiet - the fan stops revolving, while I enjoy my flight.
Suddenly it goes pear shaped. Due to the reduced FOV of the OR, I couldn't check my six properly and the first bullets perforate my wings, another one chop through my leg. To simulate this I am thinking of kind of Iron-maiden-seat - I guess at the latest now, your are asking if he is sane, but wait I have not finished yet. My VR-Rolls Royce got a hit, too and it starts to burn - two blast lamps in front of me are lighting on. The pain is so immersive intensive that I think: "Wow, that's the high-end of VR, you can't have more".
Meanwhile the left wing is cut off by a Minengeschoss - Spinning, I am going down, unable to bail out. With sweat on my forehead & terrible nausea I realize that the ground is approaching, just a few seconds to crash in. Now I am really in panic and BANG! - Game over.

Excuse me for being a little bit off topic, I hope, I am not annoying anybody. But at the moment I can't contribute anything else.
While we all are excited by the possibilities of VR I am thinking about of it limits and contradictions to RL.
Fortunately there will be some limits in VR, such as mentioned above, eg. we won't suffer the physical experience of G-forces or pain. A simulation which would be that real, would just keep away the average User, only the Real-Jet-fighting Pilots could stand, for all others it means: Go home, gaming over!
The contradiction of VR to RL would be that you set up the difficulties settings up to "hard", so you are vulnerable, therefore you could be shot down. By using HMD & all the stuff I guess it will be a very scary moment when you crash down, but in opposite to your real feeling accompanying your virtual death, you just have to restart the mission.
Another Question to me: Someone using VR racing cars, might he changing his driving style in RL to a more hazard one, because a crash in VR doesn't cost anything? Or will he drive more carefully in RL because of his virtual fear experiences?
I guess you won't, but if you guys out there, possibly where saying, inspired by the little VR-tale above, "Oh, that sounds interesting, a little pain as punishment, given by electroshocks for example, gives a further kick" - I would swap to civil flight simulation ;-)
Cheers, TG

Chivas
Apr-03-2016, 13:13
This is a good read on the comparison between the Rift and Vive headsets with Flyinside.

http://forum.flyinside-fsx.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1617

ATAG_Colander
Apr-03-2016, 18:07
Wow, what a mind blowing weekend! First the fantastic Update from MP and then that mind blowing motion-experience-head-strap-device-news.
It makes me euphoric and sleepless. Imagine how cool would that be doing barrel-rolls with this stuff - do we need straps? The girl using the Samsung-HMD in the VR-roller-coaster obviously tends to need them.
OK, here comes a little bit VR-fiction:
Once, I'll get an HMD and when I'll put it on together with the inner ear stimulation device, I jump in VR-Spit cockpit, turn on the magnetos, start the engine, a smell from engine exhaust, coming from lawnmower next to me (because of the lack of perfume spray which can do that) , reaches my nose and the Propeller starts to turn simultaneous with big fan synchronised in front of me on the desktop. I taxi out to the runway (don't forget to turn the lawnmower off once you are out of the hangar) and I take off - the fan is turning at it's maxi speed. I close the canopy and immediately all is quiet - the fan stops revolving, while I enjoy my flight.
Suddenly it goes pear shaped. Due to the reduced FOV of the OR, I couldn't check my six properly and the first bullets perforate my wings, another one chop through my leg. To simulate this I am thinking of kind of Iron-maiden-seat - I guess at the latest now, your are asking if he is sane, but wait I have not finished yet. My VR-Rolls Royce got a hit, too and it starts to burn - two blast lamps in front of me are lighting on. The pain is so immersive intensive that I think: "Wow, that's the high-end of VR, you can't have more".
Meanwhile the left wing is cut off by a Minengeschoss - Spinning, I am going down, unable to bail out. With sweat on my forehead & terrible nausea I realize that the ground is approaching, just a few seconds to crash in. Now I am really in panic and BANG! - Game over.

Excuse me for being a little bit off topic, I hope, I am not annoying anybody. But at the moment I can't contribute anything else.
While we all are excited by the possibilities of VR I am thinking about of it limits and contradictions to RL.
Fortunately there will be some limits in VR, such as mentioned above, eg. we won't suffer the physical experience of G-forces or pain. A simulation which would be that real, would just keep away the average User, only the Real-Jet-fighting Pilots could stand, for all others it means: Go home, gaming over!
The contradiction of VR to RL would be that you set up the difficulties settings up to "hard", so you are vulnerable, therefore you could be shot down. By using HMD & all the stuff I guess it will be a very scary moment when you crash down, but in opposite to your real feeling accompanying your virtual death, you just have to restart the mission.
Another Question to me: Someone using VR racing cars, might he changing his driving style in RL to a more hazard one, because a crash in VR doesn't cost anything? Or will he drive more carefully in RL because of his virtual fear experiences?
I guess you won't, but if you guys out there, possibly where saying, inspired by the little VR-tale above, "Oh, that sounds interesting, a little pain as punishment, given by electroshocks for example, gives a further kick" - I would swap to civil flight simulation ;-)
Cheers, TG


Sadly that does not exist
On the other hand, if it existed, there would be no players left as we've all died at least once in the game :)

MJDixon
Apr-03-2016, 18:17
You could smash up your PC every time you get shot down if you wanted to add a bit of real life fear to it, though I wouldn't recommend it. :laugh:

ATAG_Flare
Apr-04-2016, 00:29
You could smash up your PC every time you get shot down if you wanted to add a bit of real life fear to it, though I wouldn't recommend it. [emoji23]
I'd have to buy new parts each day!

Topgum
Apr-04-2016, 11:33
Sadly that does not exist
:stunned:

On the other hand, if it existed, there would be no players left as we've all died at least once in the game :)
So did I: After 20 years of flightsimulation, Topgums Army lies a mouldering in their graves...Glory Halleluja:salute:
21985

Topgum
Apr-04-2016, 11:42
You could smash up your PC every time you get shot down if you wanted to add a bit of real life fear to it, though I wouldn't recommend it. :laugh:

:smash:I do it anyway:smash:

Blitzen
Apr-08-2016, 12:59
Not sure this is particularly relevant to this thread but...
Studio 777 has just made BoS & upcoming Battle of Moscow 64 bit & in Questions to developers has definately said they want to incorporate VR in the future ,How long from now is anybody's guess,but just the fact they are planning on it is encouraging.
These guys have done a good job in living up to their plans & promises in the past and for those who might not be aware have just brought out a very pretty Ju-88.I'm not going out on a limb to compare ours ( cloD0 to theirs except to say that you can do a 180 view from any position in the plane which is a very nice feature ( ditto in all the heavy fighters & bombers..)I'm no expert in VR but I imagine this could make a difference in total immersion yes?


http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d116/jamesdietz/Battle%20of%20Stalingrad/2016_3_31__18_56_41_zpsbedmgets.png (http://s34.photobucket.com/user/jamesdietz/media/Battle%20of%20Stalingrad/2016_3_31__18_56_41_zpsbedmgets.png.html)

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d116/jamesdietz/Battle%20of%20Stalingrad/2016_3_31__22_38_28_zpsncdgijy7.png (http://s34.photobucket.com/user/jamesdietz/media/Battle%20of%20Stalingrad/2016_3_31__22_38_28_zpsncdgijy7.png.html)

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d116/jamesdietz/Battle%20of%20Stalingrad/2016_3_31__18_58_14_zpsxpqhlwhb.png[/URL

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d116/jamesdietz/Battle%20of%20Stalingrad/2016_3_31__18_58_22_zpsflwov9to.png (http://s34.photobucket.com/user/jamesdietz/media/Battle%20of%20Stalingrad/2016_3_31__18_58_14_zpsxpqhlwhb.png.html)

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d116/jamesdietz/Battle%20of%20Stalingrad/2016_4_1__5_17_56_zpszquccz8a.png (http://s34.photobucket.com/user/jamesdietz/media/Battle%20of%20Stalingrad/2016_4_1__5_17_56_zpszquccz8a.png.html)

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d116/jamesdietz/Battle%20of%20Stalingrad/2016_3_31__19_1_31_zpsiej83kjk.png (http://s34.photobucket.com/user/jamesdietz/media/Battle%20of%20Stalingrad/2016_3_31__19_1_31_zpsiej83kjk.png.html)

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d116/jamesdietz/Battle%20of%20Stalingrad/2016-03-13%203%20copy_zpssl4gawsa.jpg (http://s34.photobucket.com/user/jamesdietz/media/Battle%20of%20Stalingrad/2016-03-13%203%20copy_zpssl4gawsa.jpg.html)

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d116/jamesdietz/Battle%20of%20Stalingrad/2016_3_31__22_40_55_zps1czkehs6.png (http://s34.photobucket.com/user/jamesdietz/media/Battle%20of%20Stalingrad/2016_3_31__22_40_55_zps1czkehs6.png.html)

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d116/jamesdietz/Battle%20of%20Stalingrad/2016-03-13%202%20copy_zps3aekvvss.jpg (http://s34.photobucket.com/user/jamesdietz/media/Battle%20of%20Stalingrad/2016-03-13%202%20copy_zps3aekvvss.jpg.html)

I do like this sort of view possible with 180 look around:

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d116/jamesdietz/Battle%20of%20Stalingrad/He111_zpsg772jxif.png (http://s34.photobucket.com/user/jamesdietz/media/Battle%20of%20Stalingrad/He111_zpsg772jxif.png.html)

I do feel I need to add a disclaimer:I am [U]not giving BoS a rave review or ringing endorsement-it has its flaws ,particularly in gameplay & coms. If I had to I would pick CloD over the current version of BoS,but lucky for me as a SP I don't have to.:recon:

♣_Spiritus_♣
Apr-08-2016, 18:11
Oculus Rift thread over on DCS forums is blowing up right now since ED released 1.3 support.

Initial thoughts are its fucking incredible, at default positions basically everything is clear and readable. Objects, both air and ground are easily spotted from a few miles out. Smaller instruments just need you to lean in a bit to read them perfectly.

The future has arrived!

I can't wait to try this out, April 12th needs to hurry up.

ATAG_NakedSquirrel
Apr-09-2016, 12:00
I'm curious as how these headsets hold up to lower FPS. The Vive supposedly needs 90+ FPS to not make you spew your lunch... which is fine if you're playing a game like job simulator that was probably designed by the same guy who made that Dire Straits music video back in the day, but... what about real games?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAD6Obi7Cag


VR seems like it would be neat tech for ARMA, DCS, CloD, or racing, but is it there yet?

I realize the resolution isn't (quite) there, but that's almost a never ending struggle to reach the resolution of the human eye.

Can I get my money for nothing and chicks for free or what!? That's all I'm asking!

Chivas
Apr-09-2016, 13:02
I'm curious as how these headsets hold up to lower FPS. The Vive supposedly needs 90+ FPS to not make you spew your lunch... which is fine if you're playing a game like job simulator that was probably designed by the same guy who made that Dire Straits music video back in the day, but... what about real games?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAD6Obi7Cag


VR seems like it would be neat tech for ARMA, DCS, CloD, or racing, but is it there yet?

I realize the resolution isn't (quite) there, but that's almost a never ending struggle to reach the resolution of the human eye.

Can I get my money for nothing and chicks for free or what!? That's all I'm asking!

Both the Vive and Rift require a constant 90fps for the best results. BUT the Oculus Rift software now supports ATW Asynchronous Timewarp software which does a great job of smoothing out game play when the frame rate drops below 90fps. No word yet on what those limits are. Vive also has some tech that does the same thing, but might not work as well according to some early reports. People are now able to read gauges, and see distant ground targets, but there definitely will be room for improvement. Some might want to wait for future generation of VR headsets, while most will likely prefer flying with the current VR headsets, than going back to flying with a monitor.

ATAG_Colander
Apr-09-2016, 13:25
ATW works fine with 25fps the only issue is the lower you go, the more jumps from frame to frame you see.
This is because the render is done predicting the head position in the future so when the frame is ready, it matches the current position but, the more time between frames, the more errors on the prediction (i.e. you might change the speed of your head rotation in between).

ATAG_Colander
Apr-09-2016, 13:38
A couple more screenies...
22088

22089

ATAG_Colander
Apr-11-2016, 13:36
Here's a very good Rift/Vive comparison, specially the screen door effect

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBieKwa2ID0


Off topic: Tested is a channel from the Mythbuster guys and has some cool videos.

Chivas
Apr-11-2016, 14:14
That review is probably the best comparison I've seen so far, especially in that Tested is probably one of the most respected reviewers on the internet.

♣_Spiritus_♣
Apr-11-2016, 14:38
Thanks for posting that Colander, that was excellent, by far the best review.

Chivas
Apr-11-2016, 14:49
Finally.....Processing for Shipping...Paypal charged....should get shipping and tracking number for the Rift soon.:thumbsup:

♣_Spiritus_♣
Apr-11-2016, 15:54
Finally.....Processing for Shipping...Paypal charged....should get shipping and tracking number for the Rift soon.:thumbsup:

Damn you! Kidding, glad you got your email, can't wait to hear how it is. Thanks again for your help with your DK2. :thumbsup:

Chivas
Apr-11-2016, 18:10
Damn you! Kidding, glad you got your email, can't wait to hear how it is. Thanks again for your help with your DK2. :thumbsup:

My pleasure. It was an easy decision, considering the quality of Team Fusion.

♣_Spiritus_♣
Apr-11-2016, 23:16
Just got my email!! Shipping May 2nd-12th. Not bad, about 5 1/2 weeks later than original but hey, first world problems right. Probably better anyways, I only play CloD and DCS 2.0 NTTR so it is probably better I don't have it yet.

MJDixon
Apr-12-2016, 06:13
Mine was April, but has been delayed until the first week of June, like D-Day. :laugh:

Two months, be sure!

Chivas
Apr-12-2016, 18:12
Its been strongly rumoured that the Rift delay was due to the Microsoft Xbox controller/dongle shortage. Somebody dropped the ball at Microsoft by not ordering far more of the devices than they normally sell. When Oculus found out about the shortage they hoped to find enough Xbox controllers from other sources but things didn't go well there either. Now for the good news....Oculus has given very conservative estimates on new shipping dates, so if everything goes well,, you could receive the Rift much sooner than your new date. That said this isn't good news for those that already have and don't want an Xbox controller. Anyone who has ever developed anything knows there are always unforeseen setbacks, just ask Team Fusion.

MJDixon
Apr-12-2016, 18:41
I was a bit sad to miss the original April date, as I was hoping I'd get it around my Birthday, but it's not something I'm going to start raging about, as stuff happens, I'm a grown up apparently, so I'm sure I'll manage. :D

Not flight sim related, but it seems that the line is starting to blur somewhat!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlFKjWGxZqk

Now for someone to make a DCS A-10 version with a Thrustmaster Warthog, or a CloD version with a Spitsim. :stunned:

♣_Spiritus_♣
Apr-12-2016, 18:47
Its been strongly rumoured that the Rift delay was due to the Microsoft Xbox controller/dongle shortage. Somebody dropped the ball at Microsoft by not ordering far more of the devices than they normally sell. When Oculus found out about the shortage they hoped to find enough Xbox controllers from other sources but things didn't go well there either. Now for the good news....Oculus has given very conservative estimates on new shipping dates, so if everything goes well,, you could receive the Rift much sooner than your new date. That said this isn't good news for those that already have and don't want an Xbox controller. Anyone who has ever developed anything knows there are always unforeseen setbacks, just ask Team Fusion.

Thanks for this news, pretty interesting. I hope it is sooner like you say it might be. Although all this madness for the one device that most people could have cared less for. HA!

At first I didn't like the idea or need it, but I may just buy GTA V for PC to try on the rift because sometimes I'm just a sick son of a bitch.

Chivas
Apr-13-2016, 20:49
Oculus Rift arrived today. Software downloaded fine, but setup procedure failed. Spent a few hours trying to get the camera to see the headset for tracking to no avail. The setup software shows the Headset, HDMI, and USB3 connected. It also show the USB3 connected to the camera, but they aren't seeing each other. Support ticket sent to Oculus. Windows 10 64bit fully updated, Asus Maximus Hero V11 motherboard with latest Bios, also went to Device manager to check for latest USB drivers, but there were a lot of them and they appeared to have the latest drivers. I tried selecting each one, and checked for update.

I'm obviously not computer literate. I wonder if I could add a USB3 adapter, that would bypass the motherboard USB3 ports? Maybe a PCI card with USB3 ports? BUT it looks more like a defective camera or headset.

ATAG_Colander
Apr-13-2016, 21:19
Oculus Rift arrived today. Software downloaded fine, but setup procedure failed. Spent a few hours trying to get the camera to see the headset for tracking to no avail. The setup software shows the Headset, HDMI, and USB3 connected. It also show the USB3 connected to the camera, but they aren't seeing each other. Support ticket sent to Oculus. Windows 10 64bit fully updated, Asus Maximus Hero V11 motherboard with latest Bios, also went to Device manager to check for latest USB drivers, but there were a lot of them and they appeared to have the latest drivers. I tried selecting each one, and checked for update.

I'm obviously not computer literate. I wonder if I could add a USB3 adapter, that would bypass the motherboard USB3 ports? Maybe a PCI card with USB3 ports? BUT it looks more like a defective camera or headset.

Ouch! almost sounds like the camera is bad :s

Hystix
Apr-14-2016, 01:12
Oculus Rift arrived today. Software downloaded fine, but setup procedure failed. Spent a few hours trying to get the camera to see the headset for tracking to no avail. The setup software shows the Headset, HDMI, and USB3 connected. It also show the USB3 connected to the camera, but they aren't seeing each other. Support ticket sent to Oculus. Windows 10 64bit fully updated, Asus Maximus Hero V11 motherboard with latest Bios, also went to Device manager to check for latest USB drivers, but there were a lot of them and they appeared to have the latest drivers. I tried selecting each one, and checked for update.

I'm obviously not computer literate. I wonder if I could add a USB3 adapter, that would bypass the motherboard USB3 ports? Maybe a PCI card with USB3 ports? BUT it looks more like a defective camera or headset.

Sound like an extremely depressing day.

Kianoni
Apr-14-2016, 01:48
I got my Rift yesterday, and it works. Elite is fantastic, the pixelation/SDE is there but you don't notice it if you don't look for it. I'd love to play IL2 series on it, so Colander - can I help with testing? :D

I might even try if I can get IL2 1946 working with vorpx, but maybe later.

I've been lurking on the forums for a long time, but only just registered an account.

ATAG_Lolsav
Apr-14-2016, 10:23
A Off Topic, but interesting one:

Oculus Rift + Green Screen


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlFKjWGxZqk

Story here: http://www.isrtv.com/assetto-corsa/mixed-reality-assetto-corsa-gt3-qualify-oculus-rift/

♣_Spiritus_♣
Apr-14-2016, 11:25
Oculus Rift arrived today. Software downloaded fine, but setup procedure failed. Spent a few hours trying to get the camera to see the headset for tracking to no avail. The setup software shows the Headset, HDMI, and USB3 connected. It also show the USB3 connected to the camera, but they aren't seeing each other. Support ticket sent to Oculus. Windows 10 64bit fully updated, Asus Maximus Hero V11 motherboard with latest Bios, also went to Device manager to check for latest USB drivers, but there were a lot of them and they appeared to have the latest drivers. I tried selecting each one, and checked for update.

I'm obviously not computer literate. I wonder if I could add a USB3 adapter, that would bypass the motherboard USB3 ports? Maybe a PCI card with USB3 ports? BUT it looks more like a defective camera or headset.

Sad news! Did you hear back from OR about the issue? Hope you get it squared away and soon.

Chivas
Apr-14-2016, 13:50
Sad news! Did you hear back from OR about the issue? Hope you get it squared away and soon.

No word from support yet. I've also been checking the OR forums, and others have a similar problem. One was able to fix it by adding a powered PSI to USB3 expansion card, but his problem was close, but not exactly the same as mine. I ordered the expansion card anyway, as I would like the extra USB3 ports. Hopefully it fixes the problem as I don't like the prospect of the problem being a defective camera. Who knows how the long the delay would be if a new one was required.

carbolicus
Apr-15-2016, 09:13
Just been round a friend's place who has just got his Oculus... and it's amazing. The demo scared the living daylights out of my wife (the bit where the dinosaur comes after you looking for dinner!)

I tried it on a couple of flight sims including DCS, and the realism was stunning (if slightly blurry) - took me back instantly to nearly 20 years ago when I last sat in a cockpit for real, quite moving. It's a total game changer from flat screens.

If you TF guys get CLOD working with this it really will be a quantum leap - many thanks for your efforts!

ATAG_Colander
Apr-15-2016, 20:40
A tiny update which might even help in other situations...
I was suffering from "jumps" in the rift while moving my head with the latest Oculus runtime.
Turns out that by disabling "Threaded Optimizations" on the nVidia CP, the jumps disappeared completely.

Who knows if this setting could help other "micro stutters".

rel4y
Apr-16-2016, 08:07
Thanks for the hint Colander!

On another note, I was just reading through old threads at the yellow forums and bumped into something. Apparently in senseless desperation 1C decreased shadow map sizes in the final patch to smooth out performance. Is this related to the jagged staircase-like look of in cockpit shadows? Especially for VR this may be somewhat immersion breaking. Maybe if you find time to look into it that would really be awesome. The only other graphical glitch I find a bit immersion breaking is the flickering/ striped shadow problem. (http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9391)

Keep up the awesome work Colander! Thank you TF! :salute:

♣_Spiritus_♣
Apr-16-2016, 08:54
A couple CV1 users are saying your suggestion about threaded opt. has seemed to help them in DCS.

:salute:

klaw123
Apr-17-2016, 08:52
The work done on this is Amazing. I'm looking to upgrade with vr on a new machine but have been considering the HTC Vive as it seems to me to have the edge on the ORIFT at this point. Maybe I'll have to buy both in the longer run

Chivas
Apr-17-2016, 13:28
The work done on this is Amazing. I'm looking to upgrade with vr on a new machine but have been considering the HTC Vive as it seems to me to have the edge on the ORIFT at this point. Maybe I'll have to buy both in the longer run

The only thing the Vive has the advantage on at this point is the hand controllers, which really adds to the immersion of VR, and slightly larger freedom of movement, with Vive cords approximately 5 meters long and Rifts 4 meters long. Although we still won't know all the strengths and weakness of the Rift Touch controllers until the consumer version is released.

IMHO the Rift is more suited to flight sims than the Vive;
The Displays, and optics are more refined, with a larger sweetspot which could help spot distant aircraft a little sooner.
The Rifts ATW system is working very well to compensate for some fps slips.
The ergonomics are better balanced and feel lighter for longer periods of time.
Its also cheaper for flight simmers.

That said people won't go far wrong by buying the very good Vive system.

Robusti
Apr-17-2016, 18:04
The work done on this is Amazing. I'm looking to upgrade with vr on a new machine but have been considering the HTC Vive as it seems to me to have the edge on the ORIFT at this point. Maybe I'll have to buy both in the longer run
+1

Salmo
Apr-18-2016, 02:06
I was just reading through old threads at the yellow forums and bumped into something. Apparently in senseless desperation 1C decreased shadow map sizes in the final patch to smooth out performance. Is this related to the jagged staircase-like look of in cockpit shadows? Especially for VR this may be somewhat immersion breaking. Maybe if you find time to look into it that would really be awesome. The only other graphical glitch I find a bit immersion breaking is the flickering/ striped shadow problem. (http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9391)

There is no doubt that the shaders from early versions of the games were changed in the final patch release from the developers. TF has been going back to early game versions & looking at what was changed & whether sestoring some of the changes can improve the game.

Continu0
Apr-18-2016, 16:59
There is no doubt that the shaders from early versions of the games were changed in the final patch release from the developers. TF has been going back to early game versions & looking at what was changed & whether sestoring some of the changes can improve the game.

Is this still an ongoing process? Because if you are about it (I know, that must sound terribly stupid for someone who actually does this), there is another feature that has gone missing with the new patches: The number of small caliber hits has been decreased a lot. It once has been like this:

http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=1jq8uv&s=7

That would be something cool to bring back as well :-)

Mysticpuma
Apr-18-2016, 17:55
Decals have been looked at and improved the visible amount. Still needs testing, but it has been addressed.

Tinkicker
Apr-22-2016, 11:25
No word from support yet. I've also been checking the OR forums, and others have a similar problem. One was able to fix it by adding a powered PSI to USB3 expansion card, but his problem was close, but not exactly the same as mine. I ordered the expansion card anyway, as I would like the extra USB3 ports. Hopefully it fixes the problem as I don't like the prospect of the problem being a defective camera. Who knows how the long the delay would be if a new one was required.

Did you get it sorted chivas?

Some things to look at, did you run the oculus compatability tool and get the all clear? USB 3 is not USB 3 where oculus is concerned, esp the camera, it gotta be the latest version of the hardware and drivers.

I have powered everything including hdmi amplifier splitter and USB hub. The powered hub may do it, as it is going round the reddit boards that the main problem people are having is getting enough power to the rift for everything to work, certainly I have seen hdmi issues due to splitting the output, and obvious usb issues all leading to black screens of death.

I am green with envy at everyone getting their rifts. I was June but now July. Microsoft are not the culprits for the delay however, rumour pointed at the lenses, then at major retailers getting priority shipping.

I WANT MY RIFT.

ATAG_NakedSquirrel
Apr-22-2016, 21:37
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQ0JTkBZdyw

A funny clip.

Not to trash on the Vive or anything. These guys say the Rift and Vive have negligible differences in the full video, they mostly just say the VR content at release is crappy.

With the more I read about the two, I don't think there's much difference between the headsets. The Vive is a little heavier and it doesn't come with headphones... Yeah that's about it. I guess you can see pixels a little more distinctly in the Vive than the Rift. So pick your poison: pixelation or blurred image. Looking at side by side pictures from both headsets on reddit, it really is a small difference.

The Vive has ATW, I think they call it reprojection, but it's the same tech and it will hopefully be improved as time goes on. The trouble is both headsets are set for 45FPS for a 'smooth' experience with ATW/Repro. Users on the DCS forum complain of 'Jittering'/Shaking when it goes below 45 on the Vive of the Rift. (Why the hell they can't set ATW for 15, 30, 60 FPS is beyond me...)

The Vive's price point is a little higher than the Rift, but it comes with the motion controllers and 2 cameras. The rift has one camera and an Xbox controller... so if you wind up buying motion controllers and the extra camera for roomscale, the two units will probably even out in price (The Vive might actually be cheaper in that regard, but only time will tell.)

I'm still sort of holding off because of resolution, it's 1080×1200 per eye, and part of that is crossover between the two individual eyes, so... (being generous) you could say 1280x800 might be a comparable resolution on a flat screen? But at the GPU/CPU cost of running 2160x1200 at 90 hz.

Don't get me wrong, it's probably great for games that look like a Dire Straits music video, but I don't know if it's good enough for a combat flight sim.

dogbite
Apr-23-2016, 11:56
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQ0JTkBZdyw

A funny clip.

Not to trash on the Vive or anything. These guys say the Rift and Vive have negligible differences in the full video, they mostly just say the VR content at release is crappy.

With the more I read about the two, I don't think there's much difference between the headsets. The Vive is a little heavier and it doesn't come with headphones... Yeah that's about it. I guess you can see pixels a little more distinctly in the Vive than the Rift. So pick your poison: pixelation or blurred image. Looking at side by side pictures from both headsets on reddit, it really is a small difference.

The Vive has ATW, I think they call it reprojection, but it's the same tech and it will hopefully be improved as time goes on. The trouble is both headsets are set for 45FPS for a 'smooth' experience with ATW/Repro. Users on the DCS forum complain of 'Jittering'/Shaking when it goes below 45 on the Vive of the Rift. (Why the hell they can't set ATW for 15, 30, 60 FPS is beyond me...)

The Vive's price point is a little higher than the Rift, but it comes with the motion controllers and 2 cameras. The rift has one camera and an Xbox controller... so if you wind up buying motion controllers and the extra camera for roomscale, the two units will probably even out in price (The Vive might actually be cheaper in that regard, but only time will tell.)

I'm still sort of holding off because of resolution, it's 1080×1200 per eye, and part of that is crossover between the two individual eyes, so... (being generous) you could say 1280x800 might be a comparable resolution on a flat screen? But at the GPU/CPU cost of running 2160x1200 at 90 hz.

Don't get me wrong, it's probably great for games that look like a Dire Straits music video, but I don't know if it's good enough for a combat flight sim.

Your video was only a small portion of the 4 hours they tested and not representative of their overall conclusions about VR.
Further more many DCS users are starting to put up CV1 tests (and 1 VIVE user) on Utube and the resulting reviews are exciting.

https://youtu.be/hRpC70k3TOk
https://youtu.be/S07u3TDe_bA

It seems obvious you have no first hand experience with VR so I might suggest you stow your negativity till you try it. When you do I believe your opinion
about VR will become more optimistic about it's place in flight sims. IMHO
I, like many who are awaiting their Oculus Rift ordered it to fly DCS and Elite Dangerous as well as race Iracing and use Vorpx and Vireio to play games like Farcry 3&4, Fallout 3&4, Skyrim Crysis etc etc etc. Not to mentiom CLOD which I hope TF can make work well.

These are exciting times for computer gamers

Topgum
Apr-24-2016, 07:49
Your video was only a small portion of the 4 hours they tested and not representative of their overall conclusions about VR.
Further more many DCS users are starting to put up CV1 tests (and 1 VIVE user) on Utube and the resulting reviews are exciting.

https://youtu.be/hRpC70k3TOk
https://youtu.be/S07u3TDe_bA

It seems obvious you have no first hand experience with VR so I might suggest you stow your negativity till you try it. When you do I believe your opinion
about VR will become more optimistic about it's place in flight sims. IMHO
I, like many who are awaiting their Oculus Rift ordered it to fly DCS and Elite Dangerous as well as race Iracing and use Vorpx and Vireio to play games like Farcry 3&4, Fallout 3&4, Skyrim Crysis etc etc etc. Not to mentiom CLOD which I hope TF can make work well.

These are exciting times for computer gamers
Hell Dogbite, welcome to the forum!
While I was following your 2nd link, I found this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aiG0yOzGf4s. It might be interessting for all of us who want to be an astronaut in the virtual career one day ;-)

dogbite
Apr-24-2016, 10:19
Hell Dogbite, welcome to the forum!
While I was following your 2nd link, I found this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aiG0yOzGf4s. It might be interessting for all of us who want to be an astronaut in the virtual career one day ;-)

Thanks for the greet

Yes, saw this video. That, the experience brought him to tears bolds well for the experience.
I watched this mission live in 69 so may have to buy it.

I am especially excited to fly my DCS birds on my CV1 when it arrives in July until then I will
just have to live vicariously through others experiences.
Can't wait to get my hands on this baby https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRpC70k3TOk

Also having played CLOD with Trackir and Nvidia 3d I think experience should translate quite nicely.

ATAG_NakedSquirrel
Apr-24-2016, 23:09
Your video was only a small portion of the 4 hours they tested and not representative of their overall conclusions about VR.

I mentioned in post that there was a 'full video.' Mainly these guys were just disappointing with some of the content that came out, since most of them are basically tech demos, but sold at 15-45$. It's not a big surprise since VR is so new.

I've been reading a lot about VR, I wanted to know ATW worked and whether the Vive had anything like it. I was also curious to find out which headset is 'better'. It took a lot of reading. I've seen a few videos on DCS, but most of them are quick free flights with no combat, or a small dogfight with icons on. Reddit and forums had all sorts of opinions, but a good portion of the complaining was due to people not knowing how to even set up and calibrate their headset.

In conclusion I've found that resolution is O.K. It's not spectacular, but it isn't unplayable. And in its current state ATW/Reprojection works best at 45+ FPS, below that you get a slight stutter/jitter as frames update. And as far as which headset is better... It doesn't look like there's much difference.

I'm just not getting into VR yet because there aren't any flight sims ready for it. CloD is still WiP and DCS isn't optimized, you can look at the 100's of posts by Occulus and Vive users about 'jittering' from low FPS.

VR looks like it works well with racing, but I'm going to wait until it works in the air too. We might be lucky and see some ARMA support as well.

Either way, I see no reason to hurry :salute:

Topgum
Apr-25-2016, 10:36
I watched this mission live in 69 so may have to buy it.
So did I, three years old, it has changed my life :D Me too, I'll get that bit one day


I am especially excited to fly my DCS birds on my CV1 when it arrives in July until then I will
just have to live vicariously through others experiences.
Can't wait to get my hands on this baby https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRpC70k3TOk


Let there be July, and tell us, how it works :thumbsup:

dogbite
Apr-25-2016, 10:42
If only it did cost £417. :laugh:

And if I'm not violently ill after the first few attempts at flying crazy aerobatic manoeuvers then VR clearly isn't realistic enough! :P

I remember just before I got my first projector my partner had just got his son one. I ask him how it looked and he (a person who suffered a little motion sickness himself) said "the kid was playing some flying thing and I couldn't stay in the room for more than a couple of minutes"

My responses was "motion sickness, excellent, can't wait to get one"

dogbite
Apr-25-2016, 11:24
I was a bit sad to miss the original April date, as I was hoping I'd get it around my Birthday, but it's not something I'm going to start raging about, as stuff happens, I'm a grown up apparently, so I'm sure I'll manage. :D

Not flight sim related, but it seems that the line is starting to blur somewhat!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlFKjWGxZqk

Now for someone to make a DCS A-10 version with a Thrustmaster Warthog, or a CloD version with a Spitsim. :stunned:

Here is a review of several DCS birds on the CV1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIY6eLSgL4YHere

Chivas
Apr-25-2016, 20:12
I mentioned in post that there was a 'full video.' Mainly these guys were just disappointing with some of the content that came out, since most of them are basically tech demos, but sold at 15-45$. It's not a big surprise since VR is so new.

I've been reading a lot about VR, I wanted to know ATW worked and whether the Vive had anything like it. I was also curious to find out which headset is 'better'. It took a lot of reading. I've seen a few videos on DCS, but most of them are quick free flights with no combat, or a small dogfight with icons on. Reddit and forums had all sorts of opinions, but a good portion of the complaining was due to people not knowing how to even set up and calibrate their headset.

In conclusion I've found that resolution is O.K. It's not spectacular, but it isn't unplayable. And in its current state ATW/Reprojection works best at 45+ FPS, below that you get a slight stutter/jitter as frames update. And as far as which headset is better... It doesn't look like there's much difference.

I'm just not getting into VR yet because there aren't any flight sims ready for it. CloD is still WiP and DCS isn't optimized, you can look at the 100's of posts by Occulus and Vive users about 'jittering' from low FPS.

VR looks like it works well with racing, but I'm going to wait until it works in the air too. We might be lucky and see some ARMA support as well.

Either way, I see no reason to hurry :salute:


https://youtu.be/agrc2OmAEYg

Its a long review, but well worth looking at, if your wavering on which to buy. My take on the video suggests if you can't wait for room scale VR get the Vive, if you want a better headset get the Rift.

Robusti
Apr-26-2016, 19:42
I'm just not getting into VR yet because there aren't any flight sims ready for it. CloD is still WiP and DCS isn't optimized, you can look at the 100's of posts by Occulus and Vive users about 'jittering' from low FPS.

VR looks like it works well with racing, but I'm going to wait until it works in the air too. We might be lucky and see some ARMA support as well.

Either way, I see no reason to hurry :salute:

+1

dogbite
Apr-26-2016, 20:50
+1

You like Arma you might find this interesting
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQmSKM_9p8A

Robusti
Apr-26-2016, 21:03
You like Arma you might find this interesting
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQmSKM_9p8A

Thanks man. I don't have ARMA, but I've been thinking about getting it.

dogbite
Apr-26-2016, 21:17
Thanks man. I don't have ARMA, but I've been thinking about getting it.

P.S.

In the comments below that video someone else has listed a link to a complete setup howto for arma 3

Robusti
Apr-27-2016, 15:44
P.S.

In the comments below that video someone else has listed a link to a complete setup howto for arma 3

Thanks, I'll look for it.

HurricaneHarvest
Apr-28-2016, 08:30
GReat news about VR for CLOD, hoping it will boost this games appeal.

ush
Apr-30-2016, 19:56
Having flown the Dora in DCS World using my Vive, I can safely say this is the absolute future of sims. I'm not sure the resolution is enough to pixel hunt the horizon but for normal flight operations it is amazing. The presence of actually being in the cockpit is something I'll gladly trade resolution level for.


Also: to correct an earlier statement from someone, the Vive comes with a pair of in ear headphones

Tinkicker
May-01-2016, 11:54
Having flown the Dora in DCS World using my Vive, I can safely say this is the absolute future of sims. I'm not sure the resolution is enough to pixel hunt the horizon but for normal flight operations it is amazing. The presence of actually being in the cockpit is something I'll gladly trade resolution level for.


Also: to correct an earlier statement from someone, the Vive comes with a pair of in ear headphones

Those earbuds are alledgedly studio quality and very expensive. Still waiting for rift to arrive in July now. Going crazy with the wait.
I would think seeing a distant speck would be easier with rift or vive due to the low apparent resolution with those magnified pixels.

Do you really get the feel of height, distance and being surrounded by the cockpit?

ush
May-01-2016, 12:44
Those earbuds are alledgedly studio quality and very expensive. Still waiting for rift to arrive in July now. Going crazy with the wait.
I would think seeing a distant speck would be easier with rift or vive due to the low apparent resolution with those magnified pixels.

Do you really get the feel of height, distance and being surrounded by the cockpit?

I'm not a fan of earbuds in general and I don't care much for the shape of these ones, audio quality is fine in them. I'm using my Sennheiser hd 25 IIs though



Do you really get the feel of height, distance and being surrounded by the cockpit?


Absolutely, I boshed my head off the desk leaning in close to try read a cockpit switch :thumbsup:. If you buzz past high buildings or pull maneuvers in ravines etc, you get a very weird feeling presumably because it's giving your eyes a reference point for movement which the inner ear is'nt feeling. No nausea/headaches or eye soreness as yet but its early days. One strange thing is that (of course) the game can't stop you sticking your head through the cockpit. It's very hard to check your six because a headset is'nt designed to give you that level of vision, but if you push the headset off centre as you look back it works, or you can just lean out of the cockpit. :D

Tinkicker
May-01-2016, 14:08
I'm not a fan of earbuds in general and I don't care much for the shape of these ones, audio quality is fine in them. I'm using my Sennheiser hd 25 IIs though



Absolutely, I boshed my head off the desk leaning in close to try read a cockpit switch :thumbsup:. If you buzz past high buildings or pull maneuvers in ravines etc, you get a very weird feeling presumably because it's giving your eyes a reference point for movement which the inner ear is'nt feeling. No nausea/headaches or eye soreness as yet but its early days. One strange thing is that (of course) the game can't stop you sticking your head through the cockpit. It's very hard to check your six because a headset is'nt designed to give you that level of vision, but if you push the headset off centre as you look back it works, or you can just lean out of the cockpit. :D

So envious its making my teeth itch. Don't be shy in posting your VR experiences. When my Rift box finally arrives I am afraid that the UPS driver may find his pants leg getting humped in all the excitement and it won't be by the dogs.:-)

ush
May-01-2016, 14:52
So envious its making my teeth itch. Don't be shy in posting your VR experiences. When my Rift box finally arrives I am afraid that the UPS driver may find his pants leg getting humped in all the excitement and it won't be by the dogs.:-)

Dunno where to start really, I'm an indifferent simmer, haven't really done anything since Pacific battles/Il2 1946 other than fly quick missions in COD or mess around in DCS World. DCS world always seem a bit more washed out colour wise than COD and this more apparent in VR. Depth/distance perception seems far better. Which makes take off and taxiing far better, I got the dora into the air on my third go. easier to hop over buildings and strafe too

I decided to land her even though I did'nt have a clue about landing speed so she wound up skidding to halt minus her propeller blades and a wing. I was sitting in the cockpit on the ground and it occurred to me that roomscale means I can get up and walk around so I hopped out of the cockpit and stood beside the wing that was still attached, literally walked away from a landing for the first time :-)

The sense of presence is amazing, if nvidia and AMD deliver on their boasts for their next gen cards later this year,things could get very interesting.

thee_oddball
May-02-2016, 20:30
$435 GOOD OR BAD?
http://www.amazon.com/Dupad-Story-Virtual-Reality-Compatible/dp/B01AWDN5GA/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1462234809&sr=8-6&keywords=oculus+rift+virtual+reality

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYNz1PLeb6g

Chivas
May-02-2016, 21:21
$435 GOOD OR BAD?
http://www.amazon.com/Dupad-Story-Virtual-Reality-Compatible/dp/B01AWDN5GA/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1462234809&sr=8-6&keywords=oculus+rift+virtual+reality

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYNz1PLeb6g

I guess it depends on what you want to use them for, but I certainly wouldn't touch either them with a ten foot pole. They look to have basic features at best. I would also be very leery of 1080P Amoled display with 120* FOV as the perceived resolution would probably be very very low, unless it used eyetracking, which is unlikely. I'd spend the extra 165 dollars and get the Rift.

thee_oddball
May-02-2016, 21:44
I guess it depends on what you want to use them for, but I certainly wouldn't touch either them with a ten foot pole. They look to have basic features at best. I would also be very leery of 1080P Amoled display with 120* FOV as the perceived resolution would probably be very very low, unless it used eyetracking, which is unlikely. I'd spend the extra 165 dollars and get the Rift.

I know absolutely zero about VR head gear :( and I don't suppose i will get it any time soon but what i saw on amazon was a bit cost prohibitive.
http://www.amazon.com/Oculus-Rift/dp/B00VF0IXEY/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1462234809&sr=8-4&keywords=oculus+rift+virtual+reality $1200
http://www.amazon.com/HTC-Vive-Pc/dp/B00VF5NT4I/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1462234809&sr=8-3&keywords=oculus+rift+virtual+reality $1300

thnx for the feedback. S!

Chivas
May-02-2016, 22:02
I know absolutely zero about VR head gear :( and I don't suppose i will get it any time soon but what i saw on amazon was a bit cost prohibitive.
http://www.amazon.com/Oculus-Rift/dp/B00VF0IXEY/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1462234809&sr=8-4&keywords=oculus+rift+virtual+reality $1200
http://www.amazon.com/HTC-Vive-Pc/dp/B00VF5NT4I/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1462234809&sr=8-3&keywords=oculus+rift+virtual+reality $1300

thnx for the feedback. S!

I'm shocked at those prices for the Rift and Vive at Amazon. If your primarily a flight simmer I would order the six hundred dollar Rift from Oculus.com. Oculus is starting to catch up on their orders, so the wait might not be too long. If your a general gamer I'd order the Vive only because you might be able to get it sooner. The Vive is 800 dollars from their website, but comes with tracked hand controllers. The Rift will also have tracked hand controllers later this year. If you live in the States, and are close to one of the fifty Best Buys, you could pick up a Rift later this week, but I see the reserve demos are being booked up very quickly. Atleast you would have a good idea on what your buying by demoing the hardware. That said very few people have been underwhelmed by the new VR hardware from Oculus, and Vive.

edit....you will also need a relatively high end computer system to run VR and their games at 90 HZ. The spec requirements can be found at Oculus.com. Early adoption certainly isn't cheap. :(

thee_oddball
May-02-2016, 22:27
I'm shocked at those prices for the Rift and Vive at Amazon. If your primarily a flight simmer I would order the six hundred dollar Rift from Oculus.com. Oculus is starting to catch up on their orders, so the wait might not be too long. If your a general gamer I'd order the Vive only because you might be able to get it sooner. The Vive is 800 dollars from their website, but comes with tracked hand controllers. The Rift will also have tracked hand controllers later this year. If you live in the States, and are close to one of the fifty Best Buys, you could pick up a Rift later this week, but I see the reserve demos are being booked up very quickly. Atleast you would have a good idea on what your buying by demoing the hardware. That said very few people have been underwhelmed by the new VR hardware from Oculus, and Vive.

edit....you will also need a relatively high end computer system to run VR and their games at 90 HZ. The spec requirements can be found at Oculus.com. Early adoption certainly isn't cheap. :(

check this out chivas, the first one in this video looks very nice, 210 degree's :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GHI4If43ag

thnx i will go to best buy and have a look :) as for hardware my 2500k is still working but is getting long in the tooth :( my gtx660 is...well...still working but I have decided on a whole build so skylake (unless AMD's new chips are something to write home about) here I come :)

Chivas
May-03-2016, 18:25
check this out chivas, the first one in this video looks very nice, 210 degree's :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GHI4If43ag

thnx i will go to best buy and have a look :) as for hardware my 2500k is still working but is getting long in the tooth :( my gtx660 is...well...still working but I have decided on a whole build so skylake (unless AMD's new chips are something to write home about) here I come :)

There is some mis information in that youtube video. Like suggesting that the Rift even with Touch is only a seated experience. StarVr is one of the more interesting headsets in that group, but again what kind of system would be required to drive 210* of pixels, and what would be the perceived resolution. Hopefully StarVR has found the answer to that problem. Not to mention they only have one game at the moment, that said StarVR is worth keeping an eye on, but I don't expect anything anytime soon. If you want decent PC VR now there are only two choices. If you are primarily a flight/race simmer the Rift is a better choice. There is also a good chance that COD will have Rift implementation with their next big version update.

ATAG_Dave
May-03-2016, 19:33
I

edit....you will also need a relatively high end computer system to run VR and their games at 90 HZ. The spec requirements can be found at Oculus.com. Early adoption certainly isn't cheap. :(

Chivas - sorry of this is a 'how long is a bit of string ' type question but do you have any sense of what kind of PC spec will be required to run Clod (well) with occulus? I appreciate you might have to speculate but you seem to have a fair degree of knowlege and experience re the rift.

S!

Chivas
May-03-2016, 21:22
Chivas - sorry of this is a 'how long is a bit of string ' type question but do you have any sense of what kind of PC spec will be required to run Clod (well) with occulus? I appreciate you might have to speculate but you seem to have a fair degree of knowlege and experience re the rift.

S!

Hi Dave

That is the six million dollar question. My guess is that COD will be one of the only combat flight sims that users with highend systems will be able to play with most settings on HIGH. Most VR users in DCS are having to significantly reduce their settings.

My current system, a I7-4790K @4.4 gigs, 16gigs of DDR3-2133, and 980Ti runs COD with more than enough frame rate to make VR in COD very possible. Team Fusion has done a wonderful job, optimizing COD. If my memory serves,I believe the only setting I might have to turn down is UNLIMITED to HIGH buildings if a mission goes over London. I only average around 50fps with UNLIMITED over London, but 130+fps average with building set to HIGH. Although it could have been HIGH to MEDIUM. For VR you will have to average near 90fps. BUT VR can pose a significant fps hit, since two different views of the same view have to be displayed for the 3D effect.. Colander is looking at ways to significantly reduce the VR hit in COD, that might only pose a 20/30 percent hit.

ATAG_Dave
May-04-2016, 08:19
Hi Dave

That is the six million dollar question. My guess is that COD will be one of the only combat flight sims that users with highend systems will be able to play with most settings on HIGH. Most VR users in DCS are having to significantly reduce their settings.

My current system, a I7-4790K @4.4 gigs, 16gigs of DDR3-2133, and 980Ti runs COD with more than enough frame rate to make VR in COD very possible. Team Fusion has done a wonderful job, optimizing COD. If my memory serves,I believe the only setting I might have to turn down is UNLIMITED to HIGH buildings if a mission goes over London. I only average around 50fps with UNLIMITED over London, but 130+fps average with building set to HIGH. Although it could have been HIGH to MEDIUM. For VR you will have to average near 90fps. BUT VR can pose a significant fps hit, since two different views of the same view have to be displayed for the 3D effect.. Colander is looking at ways to significantly reduce the VR hit in COD, that might only pose a 20/30 percent hit.

Thanks for that Chivas. So I think my system will be probably be ok for clod/rift once i upgrade my GPU?? (Currently i5-4690k, 16gb RAM, SSD, GTX970). My intention is to upgrade the GPU to one of the pascal Nvidia versions (ie to whatever is the new, and presumably faster pascal version of the 980Ti) once they are released which is suppoosed to be in a few months time if I believe what i read. My working theory is that ill buy it when TF5 is out and Rift support confirmed etc.

Thanks again

S!

Robusti
May-04-2016, 13:14
My intention is to upgrade the GPU to one of the pascal Nvidia versions (ie to whatever is the new, and presumably faster pascal version of the 980Ti) once they are released which is suppoosed to be in a few months time if I believe what i read.

S!

The big boy 1080ti is estimated to be one year away. In June they are only releasing their mid range and mobile cards that have been reported to be similar to the 980ti in performance. This is in line with how the 980 was similar performance to the 780ti.

http://wccftech.com/nvidia-pascal-3dmark-11-entries-spotted/

Chivas
May-04-2016, 14:36
Thanks for that Chivas. So I think my system will be probably be ok for clod/rift once i upgrade my GPU?? (Currently i5-4690k, 16gb RAM, SSD, GTX970). My intention is to upgrade the GPU to one of the pascal Nvidia versions (ie to whatever is the new, and presumably faster pascal version of the 980Ti) once they are released which is suppoosed to be in a few months time if I believe what i read. My working theory is that ill buy it when TF5 is out and Rift support confirmed etc.

Thanks again

S!

Yes, your cpu could be just fine, and its a much easier to explore gpu's upgrades first.. Your GTX970 is a decent card. I believe Colander has that card and he gets 40fps average over London, while I was getting 50fps over London with the GTX 980Ti. Reducing the building setting should increase that frame rate to average over one hundred. Your GTX970 card may just be good enough for a decent VR experience with COD, considering Team Fusions current and future optimizations.

That said, I think the more power you can add to your system the better the experience. I will be looking at the Pascals, and AMD equivalents very closely over the next few months. When your checking benchmarks comparisons try to find ones that use Futuremarks new VRMark instead of 3DMark11. Nvidia and AMD are working very closely with the VR hardware makers, and even investing in their own headsets. Their new gpu's and drivers software could have many VR optimizations that probably won't show up in a 3DMark 11 benchmarks, but show a considerable difference in VRMark benchmarks. So it could be possible that a non Ti Pascal could beat out a 980Ti in VR benchmarks. I wouldn't pay too much attention to 3DMark 11 benchmarks unless they update that benchmark to include VR optimizations, which is unlikely as they will have the VRMark for that purpose.

Robusti
May-04-2016, 17:00
The 1080 will likely be in the ballpark of a superclocked 980ti. The big boost that most are looking for will come next year with the 1080ti.

Also this:

"Looks like 980 TI and FuryX users are staying put until new cards come out in 2017."

https://www.reddit.com/r/nvidia/comments/4ay8bp/nvidia_pascal_geforce_x80_x80ti_titan_specs/

"Those equipped with 980 Ti or a better probably don’t want to be looking at this Friday’s rumoured reveal for an upgrade then."

http://www.game-debate.com/news/?news=20071&graphics=GeForce%20GTX%201070&title=Rumour:%20Nvidia%20To%20Soft%20Launch%20Pasc al%20GTX%201070%20And%201080%20GPUs%20During%20Bat tlefield%205%20Reveal


"Converting the prices, you get around $620 and $870 for the 1070 and 1080 respectively."

http://www.eteknix.com/nvidia-pascal-gtx-1070-and-gtx-1080-prices-leaked/

ATAG_Dave
May-04-2016, 19:26
Yes, your cpu could be just fine, and its a much easier to explore gpu's upgrades first.. Your GTX970 is a decent card. I believe Colander has that card and he gets 40fps average over London, while I was getting 50fps over London with the GTX 980Ti. Reducing the building setting should increase that frame rate to average over one hundred. Your GTX970 card may just be good enough for a decent VR experience with COD, considering Team Fusions current and future optimizations.

That said, I think the more power you can add to your system the better the experience. I will be looking at the Pascals, and AMD equivalents very closely over the next few months. When your checking benchmarks comparisons try to find ones that use Futuremarks new VRMark instead of 3DMark11. Nvidia and AMD are working very closely with the VR hardware makers, and even investing in their own headsets. Their new gpu's and drivers software could have many VR optimizations that probably won't show up in a 3DMark 11 benchmarks, but show a considerable difference in VRMark benchmarks. So it could be possible that a non Ti Pascal could beat out a 980Ti in VR benchmarks. I wouldn't pay too much attention to 3DMark 11 benchmarks unless they update that benchmark to include VR optimizations, which is unlikely as they will have the VRMark for that purpose.

Thanks for the info Chivas - much appreciated :thumbsup:

thee_oddball
May-04-2016, 20:56
Thanks for the info Chivas - much appreciated :thumbsup:

Allow me to reinforce what Chivas said about your CPU, excellent choice I just built my ungrateful son a new rig with the same CPU and he gets about 120FPS on ultra in BF4 using a 7990 :) there are no game engines currently available (that i know of) that even come close to effectively using quad cores in any kind of real parallelization.

p.s for anyone wandering what a 7990 is....well it was a AMD Frankenstein :) dual GPU on one card.


Oh and Dave...be the envy of your block....quad SLI titans is the way to go.... :-P

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGbutjyjaWA

♣_Spiritus_♣
May-06-2016, 16:46
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usfiAsWR4qU

22612

Tinkicker
May-06-2016, 19:35
Great stuff SM. You are almost escaped from the complete ¥«€[™€€¥ launch fiasco.

I almost cancelled my rift today, had enough of the oculus BS. I still have a lot of faith in the hardware and the engineers, but Oculus as a business deserves to fail.

Feeling very negative at the moment about it all, constant letdowns, lying to customers ect. Anyways, I guess I am preaching to the pulpit, you have gone through the wringer and out the other side.

Only fly in the ointment for you now is their decision to go to ground pounder delivery. Hope you don't live in Alaska because you will have to wait for the ice road lakes to freeze again before you get it.

Robusti
May-06-2016, 22:22
1080 announced. 8gb memory, supposed to be faster than TitanX and $599. Pretty nice package after all.

Simultaneous projection to help better performance on VR and multi monitor setups.

Chivas
May-06-2016, 22:26
GTX 1080......twice the performance of TitanX....May 29th
By far the most important performance is the single pass VR imaging (Simultaneous multi projection), so VR should no longer make a huge hit on frame rates, making a constant 90 fps very doable.

Simultaneous multi-projection. Independent viewport detection, no perf losses. Basically is solves warping in a virtualized surround view mode. Multiple monitors surrounding you will give proper picture as if you are looking around in real-world.


GPU Engine Specs:
•2560 NVIDIA CUDA Cores
•1607 Base Clock (MHz)
•1733 Boost Clock (MHz)
•Memory Specs:
•10 Gbps Memory Speed
•8 GB GDDR5X Standard Memory Config
•256-bit Memory Interface Width
•320 Memory Bandwidth (GB/sec)
•Technology Support:
•Yes Multi-Projection
•Yes VR Ready
•YesNVIDIA Ansel
•Yes - SLI HB Bridge SupportedNVIDIA SLI® Ready1
•Yes NVIDIA G-SYNC™-Ready
•Yes NVIDIA GameStream™-Ready
•3.0 NVIDIA GPU Boost™
•12 API with feature level 12_1Microsoft DirectX
•YesVulkan API
4.5OpenGL
•PCIe 3.0Bus Support
•Windows 7-10, Linux, FreeBSDx86OS Certification
•Display Support:
•7680x4320@60HzMaximum Digital Resolution1
•DP 1.42, HDMI 2.0b, DL-DVIStandard Display Connectors
•YesMulti Monitor
•2.2HDCP
•Graphics Card Dimensions:
•4.376"Height
•10.5"Length
•2-SlotWidth
•Thermal and Power Specs:
•94Maximum GPU Tempurature (in C)
•180 WGraphics Card Power (W)
•500 WRecommended System Power (W)3
•8-Pin

♣_Spiritus_♣
May-06-2016, 22:30
Wow, interesting, and only $599? I wonder if I can call and get an upgrade since I've only had my GTX980Ti for a couple months and it cost $60 more.

Robusti
May-06-2016, 22:37
Wow, interesting, and only $599? I wonder if I can call and get an upgrade since I've only had my GTX980Ti for a couple months and it cost $60 more.

Yup, the price is quite surprising. I am waiting for the superclocked ti. It will be outstanding.

ATAG_Dave
May-07-2016, 04:44
GTX 1080......twice the performance of TitanX....May 29th
By far the most important performance is the single pass VR imaging (Simultaneous multi projection), so VR should no longer make a huge hit on frame rates, making a constant 90 fps very doable.

Simultaneous multi-projection. Independent viewport detection, no perf losses. Basically is solves warping in a virtualized surround view mode. Multiple monitors surrounding you will give proper picture as if you are looking around in real-world.


GPU Engine Specs:
•2560 NVIDIA CUDA Cores
•1607 Base Clock (MHz)
•1733 Boost Clock (MHz)
•Memory Specs:
•10 Gbps Memory Speed
•8 GB GDDR5X Standard Memory Config
•256-bit Memory Interface Width
•320 Memory Bandwidth (GB/sec)
•Technology Support:
•Yes Multi-Projection
•Yes VR Ready
•YesNVIDIA Ansel
•Yes - SLI HB Bridge SupportedNVIDIA SLI® Ready1
•Yes NVIDIA G-SYNC™-Ready
•Yes NVIDIA GameStream™-Ready
•3.0 NVIDIA GPU Boost™
•12 API with feature level 12_1Microsoft DirectX
•YesVulkan API
4.5OpenGL
•PCIe 3.0Bus Support
•Windows 7-10, Linux, FreeBSDx86OS Certification
•Display Support:
•7680x4320@60HzMaximum Digital Resolution1
•DP 1.42, HDMI 2.0b, DL-DVIStandard Display Connectors
•YesMulti Monitor
•2.2HDCP
•Graphics Card Dimensions:
•4.376"Height
•10.5"Length
•2-SlotWidth
•Thermal and Power Specs:
•94Maximum GPU Tempurature (in C)
•180 WGraphics Card Power (W)
•500 WRecommended System Power (W)3
•8-Pin

Its my birthday next week.....hmmm I wonder what I'll be treating myself to..... :D

AKA_Knutsac
May-07-2016, 08:09
GTX 1080......twice the performance of TitanX....May 29th
By far the most important performance is the single pass VR imaging (Simultaneous multi projection), so VR should no longer make a huge hit on frame rates, making a constant 90 fps very doable.

Simultaneous multi-projection. Independent viewport detection, no perf losses. Basically is solves warping in a virtualized surround view mode. Multiple monitors surrounding you will give proper picture as if you are looking around in real-world.


GPU Engine Specs:
•2560 NVIDIA CUDA Cores
•1607 Base Clock (MHz)
•1733 Boost Clock (MHz)
•Memory Specs:
•10 Gbps Memory Speed
•8 GB GDDR5X Standard Memory Config
•256-bit Memory Interface Width
•320 Memory Bandwidth (GB/sec)
•Technology Support:
•Yes Multi-Projection
•Yes VR Ready
•YesNVIDIA Ansel
•Yes - SLI HB Bridge SupportedNVIDIA SLI® Ready1
•Yes NVIDIA G-SYNC™-Ready
•Yes NVIDIA GameStream™-Ready
•3.0 NVIDIA GPU Boost™
•12 API with feature level 12_1Microsoft DirectX
•YesVulkan API
4.5OpenGL
•PCIe 3.0Bus Support
•Windows 7-10, Linux, FreeBSDx86OS Certification
•Display Support:
•7680x4320@60HzMaximum Digital Resolution1
•DP 1.42, HDMI 2.0b, DL-DVIStandard Display Connectors
•YesMulti Monitor
•2.2HDCP
•Graphics Card Dimensions:
•4.376"Height
•10.5"Length
•2-SlotWidth
•Thermal and Power Specs:
•94Maximum GPU Tempurature (in C)
•180 WGraphics Card Power (W)
•500 WRecommended System Power (W)3
•8-Pin

Wow...and only draws 180 Watts. No need for a crazy huge 1000W (i.e. space heater) power supply.

Robusti
May-07-2016, 08:41
Wow...and only draws 180 Watts. No need for a crazy huge 1000W (i.e. space heater) power supply.

The best part is the up to 2 Ghz clock speed. Looks like they are dialing back the 1080 clock speed in reserve for the 1080ti. Maybe it will overclock nicely.

thee_oddball
May-07-2016, 12:17
an what is AMD going offer in the same price range??? the only thing i can find is this....$1500, impressive but still very expensive :(
http://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/amds-1500-radeon-pro-duo-gpu-is-for-vr-content-creators-rather-than-consumers/

Healthy competition befits the end user :) cmon AMD impress us :)

♣_Spiritus_♣
May-10-2016, 10:12
Rift arriving Thursday afternoon!

ATAG_Lolsav
May-10-2016, 12:37
Is there a "unbox" movie coming up :P

Nah, just let us know your feedback. Have fun!

Robusti
May-10-2016, 23:52
"According to Nvidia the GeForce GTX 1080 will be roughly 20% faster than the GTX 980 Ti and the GTX 1070 will be slightly faster than reference GTX 980 Ti cards and on par with factory overclocked variants."

DX12 benchmarks

"The entries include two resultions, 2560×1440 and 1920×1080, both of these ran at the “Crazy” graphics preset. The GTX 1080 was 13% faster than the GTX 980 Ti and 11% faster than the R9 Fury X at 1920×1080. At 2560×1440 and the same preset the GTX 1080 was 9% faster than the GTX 980 Ti and 11% faster than the R9 Fury X."

http://www.mobipicker.com/nvidia-gtx...async-compute/

ATAG_NakedSquirrel
May-11-2016, 11:36
Another nice couple of side by side comparison video of Vive vs Rift by a racing junkie


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4x9fm0wm6ng


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zf-C7obik4Y

Blitzen
May-12-2016, 11:17
Am I to assume that the Oculus Samsung VR is virtually useless in this and say the old Il-2 or the newer BoS flight sims?:(
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d116/jamesdietz/215492f614edef59015f204644aaffc4_zpsvvbga5ou.jpg (http://s34.photobucket.com/user/jamesdietz/media/215492f614edef59015f204644aaffc4_zpsvvbga5ou.jpg.h tml)

Hystix
May-12-2016, 11:37
I would say no, if you attach your vacuum cleaner hose to each 'radar' and then tape each of the other ends to a different half of the monitor you will have yourself a nifty home VR experience. That's how people innovated around problems and got things done after the war, we should have at least some of that spirit I guess.

D3vil
May-12-2016, 12:21
Am I to assume that the Oculus Samsung VR is virtually useless in this and say the old Il-2 or the newer BoS flight sims?:(

Youre probably not being serious, but I'm way too overexcited about recently having discovered that VR might be coming to v5, so i'll answer.

Yep, that would be crazy with a Gear VR. You'd basically have to be playing IL2 on your phone. You will need a Rift CV1 or a DK2, or a Vive.

There might in the future be a way, some people are trying out other games incluuding ED. So never say never... http://www.vrbites.com/howto/play-pc-games-in-your-gearvr/

ATAG_Lolsav
May-12-2016, 12:42
You will need a Rift CV1 or a DK2, or a Vive.

That sentence caught my attention and, like Colander so many times have stated on this thread, its experimental, most likely it will be available in TF 5.0 BUT only for Oculus Rift. No guarantees that it will work for Vive.

thee_oddball
May-12-2016, 18:55
I would say no, if you attach your vacuum cleaner hose to each 'radar' and then tape each of the other ends to a different half of the monitor you will have yourself a nifty home VR experience. That's how people innovated around problems and got things done after the war, we should have at least some of that spirit I guess.

you might have better luck duct taping this to the front of an old football helmet and inverting the projection distance along with open track and you have your very own DIY VR gear...:hypnotized:roflmao

http://www.quill.com/philips-multimedia-projectors/cbs/50074702.html?hidedisruptive=1&cm_mmc=SEM_PLA_T_50074702&mcode=SEM_PLA_T_50074702&gclid=Cj0KEQjw09C5BRDy972s6q2y4egBEiQA5_guv1Wxpc3Y AnXlFpHpuUmRSn6bNvDHOwiIf6CGkoMIeScaAhrJ8P8HAQ

ATAG_NakedSquirrel
May-18-2016, 06:04
That sentence caught my attention and, like Colander so many times have stated on this thread, its experimental, most likely it will be available in TF 5.0 BUT only for Oculus Rift. No guarantees that it will work for Vive.
Because he doesn't have a Vive to test on.

The tech requirements will probably be the same. It just depends on how easy the VIVE software is to link up.

IIJG27Rich
May-18-2016, 21:06
Next update is.................?

ATAG_Colander
May-18-2016, 22:16
Next update is.................?
beautiful

ATAG_Flare
May-19-2016, 00:30
Next update is.................?
When it's ready, I guess!

philstyle
May-19-2016, 04:30
beautiful

ohh, a update!
That might shut up some of the whiners like me... bring it!

ATAG_Colander
May-19-2016, 09:58
Hehehehe, I was just filling the blank. I guess I could have replied "orange", "in the form of a post" or whatever else :D

ATAG_Lolsav
May-19-2016, 10:08
I guess I could have replied "orange"

Coolio!!! Orange!!!! :hitit2:

ATAG_Naz
May-19-2016, 22:20
Wow!

Been away for months and just saw this thread now. Great work guys, cant wait to give the Spitty a test flgiht in my Rift.

My Cv1 arrived last week and its fantastic.:)

Cheerio
:thumbsup::salute:

ATAG_Snapper
May-20-2016, 08:57
Wow!

Been away for months and just saw this thread now. Great work guys, cant wait to give the Spitty a test flgiht in my Rift.

My Cv1 arrived last week and its fantastic.:)

Cheerio
:thumbsup::salute:

You're killin' me, Naz, you're killin' me. I'm jealous, I admit it. :D

Great to see you back, mate. :salute:

D3vil
May-23-2016, 19:53
That sentence caught my attention and, like Colander so many times have stated on this thread, its experimental, most likely it will be available in TF 5.0 BUT only for Oculus Rift. No guarantees that it will work for Vive.

Yes, my bad. Luckily I am CV1 equipped and raring to go!

I think there is a danger that people will expect to be competitive in the Rift. Being a long term player of DCS in the DK2 and the CV1, I should point out that playing in a Rift can be a huge disadvantage, because of the resolution - especially when spotting aircraft in the distance. I hope everyones expectations are suitably low.There is nothing as amazing as flying in the Rift, I personally cannot fly with a monitor anymore, but it is not perfect... just yet. Another generation or two, perhaps with foveated rendering, sooner.

HurricaneHarvest
May-25-2016, 09:50
I think I'll be going Vive ..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eM8jnnuZW4Y

LOL! ROFL !

dogbite
May-25-2016, 10:17
Yes, my bad. Luckily I am CV1 equipped and raring to go!

I think there is a danger that people will expect to be competitive in the Rift. Being a long term player of DCS in the DK2 and the CV1, I should point out that playing in a Rift can be a huge disadvantage, because of the resolution - especially when spotting aircraft in the distance. I hope everyones expectations are suitably low.There is nothing as amazing as flying in the Rift, I personally cannot fly with a monitor anymore, but it is not perfect... just yet. Another generation or two, perhaps with foveated rendering, sooner.

I am hard pressed to find a sim pilot who is not totally elated with VR. Your statement about not being able to fly on a monitor anymore is a popular sentiment. I often fly just for the sake of enjoying a particular aircraft and have no regret for ordering a Rift when I read how many pilots are thrilled with it. Those who do their homework can get a good idea from all the info out there regarding the strengths and weaknesses or current gen VR. Elite Dangerous players offer the most divergent opinions due to "godray" light bleeding due to the Fresnel lenses and the high contrast nature of black space and white stars. As you mention and the only real issue for flight sims seems to be the resolution is a little less than necessary for some tasks, but the immersion of being in the plane negates that quibble.
As I have spent as much on a graphics card every 2 or 3 years I personally won't sweat buying the Rift. Can always sell it for a profit if I don't like it as the demand is so high for one.
Still, for those with less of a stomach for early adoption of new tech, waiting for a chance to demo an HMD is worth considering.

Also worth mentioning as some here use SLI. SLI is not supported in VR currently. If you read about Nvidia's upcoming VR SLI be aware this will require support in the game, the game would need to have DX12 capability, Oculus or Vive driver support and you would need 2 Pascal generation cards which will be cheap by the time all the other conditions are met.

Chivas
May-25-2016, 13:25
I think I'll be going Vive ..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eM8jnnuZW4Y

LOL! ROFL !

That was a very funny video.

Here's another more serious video of a Vive's supporters views on the Rift and flight sims etc. https://youtu.be/enoetfCDC-A

Oersted
May-25-2016, 19:08
Link Chivas?

BTW, I totally agree with the fat guy. Facebook? - Really?

Chivas
May-26-2016, 00:36
Link Chivas?

BTW, I totally agree with the fat guy. Facebook? - Really?

https://youtu.be/enoetfCDC-A

Robusti
May-26-2016, 17:38
BTW, I totally agree with the fat guy. Facebook? - Really?

+1

And DRM crap.

Chivas
May-28-2016, 14:17
DRM is unfortunate, but necessary, in a world that thinks its their god given right to steal software.. What's so funny is that the DRM haters would be falling all over themselves to create a DRM if it was their software that was being stolen. Stolen software gives second thoughts to any developer that wants to invest in very expensive combat flight sims.