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Catseye
Sep-29-2012, 12:28
Hi Guys,
Considering the issues around Red aircraft in this patch. I'm suggesting that ATAG revert to the previous patch until the current problem is sorted out by 1C.

I have little confidence that it will be fixed within the week. They have demonstrated in the previous startup issues a somewhat slow response. In the meantime, red is severely handicapped even with the Spit II at altitude apparently due to mixture issues.

IMHO, It would help gameplay to revert and also send a message to 1C.

Best regards,
Catseye

31st_ff_yellow(26)
Sep-29-2012, 13:49
I AGREE 100% !!!

3 things i see is good at this patch...

- the stutters what i have some times are away now
- clouds looks much better !!!
- fps i feel better

but the rest is crap...
1 step forward... 2 steps back...

ATAG please return to patch 1.08

ATAG_Snapper
Sep-29-2012, 20:50
I respectfully disagree with the wish to return back to 1.08. I actually stopped flying that beta because the FM's were soooo porked, it was not fun, but extremely frustrating.

That said, I realize we have two gamestopping issues here. First and foremost - Hurricanes won't start. WTF. Colander is investigating a work around that hopefully we can get past this. I quickly tried the Hurricane Mark 1 100 octane offline (Single Player/Quick Mission/Cross Country) where you start on the airfield with your engine ticking over and the engine is warmed up and good to go. TBH I just took off, wheels up, did a quick climb to 5000 feet --- temps stayed good at 6.25 lbs (full throttle)/2850 rpms/50% radiator. Pointed her down at the ground and followed terrain at full boost (12 lbs/3000 rpms, 50% rad) -- did not overheat after a good 5 minutes of hard running, reached an indicated speed (100 feet altitude) of 260+ mph IAS. I then had to shut down because lunch was ready. ("I say, old chaps, do you mind terribly if we postpone the BoB whilst I indulge in some tea and crumpets?"). I did not do a full altitude climbout to see if the Hurricanes are likewise badly affected around the 18,000 mark (+/- 2000 feet). I would bet they are, though.

One thing I have found, is that the two Spits that I've been flying online (mostly 1a 100 octane, a little bit 2a) are worthy opponents now to the 109's in this sim, certainly up to and including 18.000 feet. I agree that's not high enough when it comes to attacking or escorting bombers above, say, 12,000 feet, mainly because we usually have to contend with 109's that usually make an appearance from on high...and very fast. But co-e I find the 109's can still outclimb me to get out of gunrange, but not like the "space shuttles" we perceived in past versions. I think the Blue pilots would agree that the beta 1.09 Spits are more of a challenge at our usual dogfight heights of sea level up to, say 15,000 feet. Our planes have a little more speed, they don't overheat nearly as easily (I've managed though! LOL ). Personally, I've found Cliffs of Dover has new life with this beta, acknowledging that there are, as noted, some severe problems that need fixing.

We have to get Hurries into the air. We have to get ALL aircraft (both sides) up to their service ceilings. Another issue that seems to be lost in the confusion is the issue of 109's stalling out viciously in high g turns. I've enquired over at 1C, but the local expert there seems too preoccupied that the Spits don't bend in a dive unless you use trim as well. Too many times I've had a 109 try to match me in a hard turn and fall away. Sometimes into the ocean in a bad spin, othertimes just losing the tactical advantage since it took ages for him to recover. It's saved my bacon, admittedly, but it's unrealistic. AFAIK the 109's did not have this vice, in fact, just the opposite. If they entered into an accelerated stall during a high speed turn, all the pilot had to do was simply relax the controls and instantly regain control -- and retain his tactical advantage. I hate having smoking 109 carcasses littering our beautiful Kent countryside, plus I don't get any credit whatsoever for maneuvre kills. Hopefully what I perceive to be a very serious bug will be fixed, as well.

So, I ask that we persevere with the current beta 1.09 and test it to its fullest. We are fortunate enough to have IvanK visit here occasionally, and he is scrupulously insistent on the fullest FM accuracy for ALL aircraft. To this end, please continue using this forum to air any and all concerns -- we'll keep it civilized so everyone can speak freely. Except JTDawg. :D

Dutch
Sep-29-2012, 21:07
all the pilot had to do was simply relax the controls and instantly regain control -- and retain his tactical advantage.

Disagree mate. He may have regained control, but by that time the Spit has turned 180 and is inserting lead suposatories. (suppozatries, superstories, well, whatever :D )

ATAG_JTDawg
Sep-29-2012, 21:08
:) Really come on really? :stunned:

ATAG_Snapper
Sep-29-2012, 22:17
Disagree mate. He may have regained control, but by that time the Spit has turned 180 and is inserting lead suposatories. (suppozatries, superstories, well, whatever :D )

Well, if you put it THAT way....I prefer your interpretation over mine! :)

JG52_Krupi
Sep-30-2012, 07:35
May I ask what is so bad with this patch that you want to go back to a version that stopped most red pilots from flying due to porked FMs?????!!!!!

Dutch
Sep-30-2012, 07:52
May I ask what is so bad with this patch that you want to go back to a version that stopped most red pilots from flying due to porked FMs?????!!!!!

Krupi, where have you been? Most of the RAF planes now take around 10mins of cranking the starter just to get moving. The 100oct models including the Spit II now have mixture issues at various altitudes. The overheating has gone, and personally I would definately not go back to the last patch for that reason alone, but the 100oct a/c may as well not be there unless you want to fly below 10k ft all day. Below 10k they are murderously effective, but if you want to go higher take the Spit Ia 87oct.

That's if you can get any of 'em started in the first place. :D

JG52_Krupi
Sep-30-2012, 07:58
Well its takes me what 30 seconds to start a spit mk1a 100oct....?

Okay hurris cant be started under 20mins but the spits can....

Dutch
Sep-30-2012, 08:00
Well its takes me what 30 seconds to start a spit mk1a 100oct....?

Okay hurris cant be started under 20mins but the spits can....

It's pot luck mate, pure pot luck. Sometimes you will, sometimes you won't. You'll see.....

JG52_Krupi
Sep-30-2012, 08:11
Well I have taken off a few times in the spit now... :pff:

Dutch
Sep-30-2012, 08:18
Well I have taken off a few times in the spit now... :pff:

Yeah, but you've got a special stick. :D But seriously, I've taken off loads of times too. Even in a Hurri. The Spits aren't as bad as the Hurris, but they can still be finicky. The Spits aren't what prompted Catseye's post, it was the Hurris.

As I say, I don't agree with going back to last patch, no point, but they do need to fix the starting issue urgently. It's a pain in the proverbial.

JG52_Krupi
Sep-30-2012, 09:39
Just bagged a 109 as well :PP

Doc
Sep-30-2012, 10:53
And get the ghost again? Naaa come on. Eliminating ghost is a huge improvement.

9./JG52 Jamz Dackel
Sep-30-2012, 11:35
And get the ghost again? Naaa come on. Eliminating ghost is a huge improvement.

Agreed 100%

Pain in the royal a$$ they were

Catseye
Sep-30-2012, 13:49
May I ask what is so bad with this patch that you want to go back to a version that stopped most red pilots from flying due to porked FMs?????!!!!!

I and others that fly Red would like to start up the Hurricanes and some Spit variants to fly. Simple as that. Some online squadrons, such as the one I am in, fly Hurricanes.

A porked flight model IMHO, is better than no flight model at all.

Catseye
Sep-30-2012, 13:51
Well its takes me what 30 seconds to start a spit mk1a 100oct....?

Okay hurris cant be started under 20mins but the spits can....

Not all the Spits Krupi. I can start the Spit 100 Oct. in less that 30 seconds.
I think you may not have tested all the aircraft?

Catseye
Sep-30-2012, 14:04
So, I ask that we persevere with the current beta 1.09 and test it to its fullest. We are fortunate enough to have IvanK visit here occasionally, and he is scrupulously insistent on the fullest FM accuracy for ALL aircraft. To this end, please continue using this forum to air any and all concerns -- we'll keep it civilized so everyone can speak freely. Except JTDawg. :D

Hi Snapper,
I have had the opportunity to fly 2 Spit variants and I found the 100octane to be a real barn burner and I certainly have had great luck in outturning and diving in tandem with several 109's (variants unknown). I think that once the startup and mixture issues are resolved and graphic glitches taken care of, we should have a pretty decent competitive product to keep us on hold until BOM arrives.

However in the meantime, (I'm in lockstep with your summations in general.) I and my squadron mates would like to at least get off the ground in our historic steeds. I noticed that there are airstart capabilites on one of the maps as before. If the decision is made to retain this version on the ATAG server, perhaps airstarts could be ported over to Wolf's great Channel Command map as an interrim measure? Even better yet, it would be great to start on the runway engine warmed up as seen in single missions. Particularly Croyden with Hurricanes and some Spits! Constraining bombers to altitudes that do not exceed 13,000 ft would also help a great deal due to mixture issues on the Red side that make it difficult to be competetive generally above that altitude.

Cheers

Doc
Sep-30-2012, 14:38
I bet a mini update like the last time will soon follow to fix the start up issue.

Catseye
Sep-30-2012, 15:08
I bet a mini update like the last time will soon follow to fix the start up issue.

Hi Doc,
Probably will, but if I recall they were not that quick about it previously. My take is that they will try to resolve several issues for a mini patch thus taking more time than is desireable to fix just the startup issue and at least get folks into the air in some of the Red aircraft.

I want a pint and a figgy duff in the meantime!

Tvrdi
Sep-30-2012, 18:06
nah

Tvrdi
Sep-30-2012, 18:15
sry double post

ATAG_Snapper
Sep-30-2012, 19:15
Hi Cats,

Excellent suggestions below. Colander already tried incorporating the same spawn in (engine idling and warmed up) as the Single Player/Quick Mission/Cross Country, but nojoy with online server spawning. He's looking further into this since this would be ideal for all RAF fighters, at least for the coastal airfields. Especially the Hurricanes! Will keep everyone posted.

I've also forwarded your suggestions below to our intrepid mission designers for their considered ....ummm....consideration. Here's hoping Ilya is reading the massive response to this beta over at 1C



Hi Snapper,
I have had the opportunity to fly 2 Spit variants and I found the 100octane to be a real barn burner and I certainly have had great luck in outturning and diving in tandem with several 109's (variants unknown). I think that once the startup and mixture issues are resolved and graphic glitches taken care of, we should have a pretty decent competitive product to keep us on hold until BOM arrives.

However in the meantime, (I'm in lockstep with your summations in general.) I and my squadron mates would like to at least get off the ground in our historic steeds. I noticed that there are airstart capabilites on one of the maps as before. If the decision is made to retain this version on the ATAG server, perhaps airstarts could be ported over to Wolf's great Channel Command map as an interrim measure? Even better yet, it would be great to start on the runway engine warmed up as seen in single missions. Particularly Croyden with Hurricanes and some Spits! Constraining bombers to altitudes that do not exceed 13,000 ft would also help a great deal due to mixture issues on the Red side that make it difficult to be competetive generally above that altitude.

Cheers

Catseye
Sep-30-2012, 20:42
Thanks Snapper!
Good on ya.

92 Sqn. Philstyle (QJ-P)
Oct-01-2012, 05:47
Well its takes me what 30 seconds to start a spit mk1a 100oct....?
Okay hurris cant be started under 20mins but the spits can....

Correct;
These aircraft start just fine:
Spitfire 1a 100 Octane
Spitfire 2a
Blenheim

These aircraft do not start; unless you are prepared to crank the engine for 10-15 minutes
All Hurricanes
All 87 Octane spitfires

If the aircraft that do actually start, 2 of them are confirmed to have major fuel issues over 17,000ft. (both Spitfires)

Tvrdi
Oct-01-2012, 06:40
Correct;
These aircraft start just fine:
Spitfire 1a 100 Octane
Spitfire 2a
Blenheim

These aircraft do not start; unless you are prepared to crank the engine for 10-15 minutes
All Hurricanes
All 87 Octane spitfires

If the aircraft that do actually start, 2 of them are confirmed to have major fuel issues over 17,000ft. (both Spitfires)

I didnt succeed with Spit 2a.....

ATAG_Snapper
Oct-01-2012, 07:15
I didnt succeed with Spit 2a.....

Hi Tvrdi,

The only difference I found in this beta 1.09 in starting the 2a and the 1a_100 octane was that now you have to open the throttle 20% for the plane to start. Before it was only 7 - 10%.

Tvrdi
Oct-01-2012, 08:25
Hi Tvrdi,

The only difference I found in this beta 1.09 in starting the 2a and the 1a_100 octane was that now you have to open the throttle 20% for the plane to start. Before it was only 7 - 10%.

Yes. I got the engine running but only for a while....ohh and thanks for the tip...

ATAG_Deacon
Oct-01-2012, 09:37
Yes. I got the engine running but only for a while....ohh and thanks for the tip...

Stay at 22% throttle, warm engine to 80 deg water and she'll be fine...