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Chivas
Jul-04-2016, 20:47
This guy loves his Vive, CV1, and the Vive gets more use with his family. He's owned the DK1, DK2, CV1, Vive, and has done numerous youtube videos on all types of games for quite sometime. He isn't affiliated with any of the headset manufacturers.

https://youtu.be/B3xFs8gyHyk

RAF74_Buzzsaw
Jul-04-2016, 20:52
Fellas, the where and which way of the VR field is very interesting, but please let's keep the discussion civil.

And remember, CoD wasn't designed with VR in mind... and Colander can only do what he can do... with no pay. ;;)

Robusti
Jul-05-2016, 01:00
Agreed, Colander is doing great things.

I don't think either are good enough yet. Best thing is to wait for CV2.
Vive seems to be outselling Oculus. Maybe the OpenVR is helping sales.
http://www.game-debate.com/news/20686/htc-vive-is-outselling-oculus-rift-2-to-1-according-to-steam-hardware-survey

Chivas
Jul-05-2016, 18:28
Its highly unlikely that the Vive is out selling the Rift. It has been suggested that because there are more Vive users on the STeam store that they have sold more units, but completely ignores the likelihood that most Rift users use the Oculus Store. Others have suggested because there is no waiting list for the Vive, they have sold more units, but logic suggests exactly the opposite, even with Oculus supply problems. Oculus were stockpiling units for months before release, but the demand was much higher than expected, with Palmer suggesting that it was better to have a shortage, than having unwanted Rifts on the shelf if there wasn't enough demand. Sales are likely to be in the Rifts favor considering its cheaper pricepoint, and name recognition. Anyway we won't know for sure until real sales numbers come out.

Robusti
Jul-05-2016, 19:07
I just noticed this. It makes sense that Vive is out selling the Rift.

"Why the HTC Vive is outselling the Oculus Rift"

http://www.itechpost.com/articles/21...culus-rift.htm

More reason to wait.
BETTER than OCULUS RIFT? & WAY Cheaper! - PICO NEO #BluntyE3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-New_TbXVig

ATAG_Colander
Jul-05-2016, 19:55
I kind of find the "who's selling more" discussion mute for the same reason discussing if nVidia sells more cards than AMD would be mute.
Selling more or less does not make one or the other better.

Also, is like discussing car brands. At the end, is a matter of personal taste and/or expectations.

Robusti
Jul-05-2016, 20:15
I kind of find the "who's selling more" discussion mute for the same reason discussing if nVidia sells more cards than AMD would be mute.
Selling more or less does not make one or the other better.

Also, is like discussing car brands. At the end, is a matter of personal taste and/or expectations.

True. The Pico with potentially better lenses than the Rift is more interesting. I would like to see advancements from all HMD's. Good for the community

Erpr.Gr.210_Mölders
Jul-07-2016, 10:09
A stupid question about VR googles that I have in mind from when I've started following videos and discussions about their usage in Cliffs of Dover...when you play with the VR googles on your face if you have to press a key on the keyboard how you do it? Do you have to learn at memory the key position? How you can see something on which you don't have the hands on? ( on the joystick you have the hands on so also without seeing nothing it's easy to press the various keys of it....but on the keyboard not so easy it seems ).
Just curious...

ATAG_Colander
Jul-07-2016, 10:10
A stupid question about VR googles that I have in mind from when I've started following videos and discussions about their usage in Cliffs of Dover...when you play with the VR googles on your face if you have to press a key on the keyboard how you do it? Do you have to learn at memory the key position? How you can see something on which you don't have the hands on? ( on the joystick you have the hands on so also without seeing nothing it's easy to press the various keys of it....but on the keyboard not so easy it seems ).
Just curious...

That's where HAT controls are most needed.

Erpr.Gr.210_Mölders
Jul-07-2016, 10:13
That's where HAT controls are most needed.

Thanks! I imagined something similar...so, said in brief, the keyboard becomes something almost useless correct?

ATAG_Colander
Jul-07-2016, 10:16
the keyboard becomes something almost useless correct?

As useful as your ability to find keys without seeing them :D
On the other hand, if the cockpit is fully clickable, you should not even need the keyboard.

ATAG_Highseas
Jul-07-2016, 10:38
As useful as your ability to find keys without seeing them :D
On the other hand, if the cockpit is fully clickable, you should not even need the keyboard.

as long as you train your mouse fetch.... hehe:D

ATAG_Colander
Jul-07-2016, 10:59
as long as you train your mouse fetch.... hehe:D

Hehehehe yes but is a lot easier to find the mouse than a single key :D

Erpr.Gr.210_Mölders
Jul-07-2016, 11:17
as long as you train your mouse fetch.... hehe:D

I can't imagine what will happen the moment you have to find a glass of water close to you during summer sorties! :)
I'm pretty sure that the day that I will decide to try it, during the first weeks of usage, I will destroy most of the objects around my " combat station " for the happiness of Frau Mölders! :)

Chivas
Jul-07-2016, 20:00
A good Hotas system, and Voice activated controls should be more than enough in most situations, especially for WW2 aircraft. That said my lazy boy chair, with connected hotas system, have designated keyboard, mouse, and drink holder that's easy to find while in VR. It gets easier and easier with practice. I prefer everything programmed to my Hotas and VAC rather than clickable virtual cockpits, so that I don't have to remember where every things is on different aircraft, and the Hotas provides tactile feedback. With VAC being especially immersive for communication with Tower, etc. There are other solutions, but they are mostly immersion killers.

klu.peete
Jul-08-2016, 15:52
I have lot of keys selected on stick and trotle bud not all.... so a Cople of more clicke bull buttons in the pit would be nice .. when you have vr on. It's not that mutch .. the i key startbutton is Nr 1. On the list...

Verstuurd vanaf mijn GT-I9506 met Tapatalk

RAF74_Buzzsaw
Jul-08-2016, 18:26
Something tells me Nails will not have a problem with knowing where the switches and controls are if he finishes his cockpit and decides to get VR. ;)

https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7382/26748549174_ed9a023f40_c_d.jpg

ATAG_((dB))
Jul-09-2016, 02:32
A few thinks turn me away from the rift, of course it's a personal choice but it is worth thinking about.

Although the illusion is there, like Molder say you just can't see your keyboard in fact you can't see anything and if you are wearing headphone with that you can imagine how isolate you are.
The resolution is still to low and we can see the pixel and they are big that make spotting at a normal distance near impossible.
The 1 for 1 make it very tiring to watch our six and my long session would have been out of the question.

This was done with the DK1 that is very close to the CV1 who know's what the future will bring, I do see a bright future with the VR even siming but not anything remotely competitive for extended period, not for a long time at the least.


o7

Robusti
Jul-09-2016, 15:33
A few thinks turn me away from the rift, of course it's a personal choice but it is worth thinking about.

Although the illusion is there, like Molder say you just can't see your keyboard in fact you can't see anything and if you are wearing headphone with that you can imagine how isolate you are.
The resolution is still to low and we can see the pixel and they are big that make spotting at a normal distance near impossible.
The 1 for 1 make it very tiring to watch our six and my long session would have been out of the question.

This was done with the DK1 that is very close to the CV1 who know's what the future will bring, I do see a bright future with the VR even siming but not anything remotely competitive for extended period, not for a long time at the least.


o7

+1

Chivas
Jul-09-2016, 17:23
A few thinks turn me away from the rift, of course it's a personal choice but it is worth thinking about.

Although the illusion is there, like Molder say you just can't see your keyboard in fact you can't see anything and if you are wearing headphone with that you can imagine how isolate you are.
The resolution is still to low and we can see the pixel and they are big that make spotting at a normal distance near impossible.
The 1 for 1 make it very tiring to watch our six and my long session would have been out of the question.

This was done with the DK1 that is very close to the CV1 who know's what the future will bring, I do see a bright future with the VR even siming but not anything remotely competitive for extended period, not for a long time at the least.


o7

I agree that VR still has quite a few hurdles to clear before its really good.

BUT, Isolation isn't a bad thing for most, as it enhances immersion. Although I can understand if people are worried about the baseball bat the wife likes to wave around.
, not seeing the keyboard won't be as big an issue as many people have suggested.
How competitive people will be with the current VR headsets will be interesting to see.
, race simmers find they are more competitive as they have a much better feel for brake timing, etc thru the corners, but they don't need to see far distant objects.
, most won't have a problem spotting distant aircraft as they use Icons, BUT seeing the all important aircraft orientation could be a major problem.
, those that don't use Icons will have a major problem, and will have to wingup with people who can see the distant aircraft.
, people should do better in one on one dogfights once engaged, as their 3d space feel will be much better, but with multiple aircraft, they might be more target fixated, considering the difficulty spotting distant aircraft coming into the fight.

There are definitely issues, but most will enjoy what VR has to offer now, and upgrade again when headsets improve in a couple of years.

Robusti
Jul-09-2016, 21:35
The resolution is still to low and we can see the pixel and they are big that make spotting at a normal distance near impossible.


I agree, spotting targets is a real problem. The only solution right now is resorting to use lame labels/icons, which is a real step backward and immersion killer. It reduces the sim to an arcade game. The next gen should help more with this problem.

lil_head
Jul-09-2016, 23:26
If you could use VR in CoD wouldn't you be able to reach forward and flick a switch or manipulate a control on the screen? So you would see 'on screen' your 3D arm reach out to turn a control on or off etc? I imagine currently it will be like track ir but much more head movement.
Would be interesting to see how VR would go if the game was programmed for VR.


I'd like to see someone bail out in VR :)

Los
Aug-10-2016, 17:12
Howdy Guys,
I just wanted to say, I have first hand experience with both the Vive and the Rift. My buddy and I on the same day build new gaming systems. I ordered the Vive ,he ordered the rift. We live very close to each other and both of us have flown both systems. It has been our experience that both systems render an equally excellent VR flying experience. (Have flown MS flight simulator, DCS, War Thunder, and Aces High III Beta).

Obviously the Vive has room scale as well and that is a big deal and a lot of great fun. But it also adds IIRC about $200 to the cost of the device. So again, I own a Vive, I think its absolutely fantastic for flying and room scale. My friend owns a Rift and it is also a fantastic experience. So take with a grain of salt about some expert who heard one system is better or worse than the other for flying. However, having tried the room scale, my friend cant wait for the Rift to implement room scale as well.

Cheers...

Los

Oersted
Aug-10-2016, 18:50
I kind of find the "who's selling more" discussion mute for the same reason discussing if nVidia sells more cards than AMD would be mute.
Selling more or less does not make one or the other better.


Agree that it is a moot point, because marketing and sales networks probably mean much more for sales than the actual quality of the VR experience.

JENDAR
Aug-10-2016, 20:43
Regarding the 3d complexity of the vr head sets on both rift and HTC. I remember some years back there was a program that made games 3d with using some kind of 3d glasses you would find in a movie theater. Is there anything like that still on the market and would it give us pilots the 3d depth plus a.c. orientation without it being pixulated

Sent from my LG-H901 using Tapatalk

HurricaneHarvest
Aug-10-2016, 23:25
Howdy Guys,
I just wanted to say, I have first hand experience with both the Vive and the Rift. My buddy and I on the same day build new gaming systems. I ordered the Vive ,he ordered the rift. We live very close to each other and both of us have flown both systems. It has been our experience that both systems render an equally excellent VR flying experience. (Have flown MS flight simulator, DCS, War Thunder, and Aces High III Beta).

Obviously the Vive has room scale as well and that is a big deal and a lot of great fun. But it also adds IIRC about $200 to the cost of the device. So again, I own a Vive, I think its absolutely fantastic for flying and room scale. My friend owns a Rift and it is also a fantastic experience. So take with a grain of salt about some expert who heard one system is better or worse than the other for flying. However, having tried the room scale, my friend cant wait for the Rift to implement room scale as well.

Cheers...

Los

Thanks LOs but i'll be waiting for UHD resolutions.

Hystix
Aug-15-2016, 10:01
Regarding the 3d complexity of the vr head sets on both rift and HTC. I remember some years back there was a program that made games 3d with using some kind of 3d glasses you would find in a movie theater. Is there anything like that still on the market and would it give us pilots the 3d depth plus a.c. orientation without it being pixulated

Sent from my LG-H901 using Tapatalk
We will have to wait for "magic leap" glasses for non pixels in the view. Check youtube. 1-2 years away and in development since 2011.

Tomsk
Aug-18-2016, 02:24
A few thinks turn me away from the rift, of course it's a personal choice but it is worth thinking about.

Although the illusion is there, like Molder say you just can't see your keyboard in fact you can't see anything and if you are wearing headphone with that you can imagine how isolate you are.
The resolution is still to low and we can see the pixel and they are big that make spotting at a normal distance near impossible.
The 1 for 1 make it very tiring to watch our six and my long session would have been out of the question.

This was done with the DK1 that is very close to the CV1 who know's what the future will bring, I do see a bright future with the VR even siming but not anything remotely competitive for extended period, not for a long time at the least.

So I've been playing War Thunder with the Rift CV1 and I have to say personally I have found it to be very competitive. Overall I'd say I do noticeably better in the Rift than I did with a monitor, and I really wasn't bad with a monitor. There are a couple of things that allow that to happen in WT:


The spotting model - War Thunder has an "impostors" type scheme, and it actually works very well in VR. Identifying planes is very hard (we could really use some kind of zoom) but knowing that another plane is there is not. It's probably the most important thing that keeps VR competitive with monitors: having a lower resolution is not a big disadvantage.
VoiceAttack - A great program that converts voice commands into key presses. Anything I don't have mapped to my HOTAS I can use with VoiceAttack. It works very well (with a little training) and I can thoroughly recommend it for the very small cost ($10 I think).
My ability to touch type - If I do want to type in chat for example I find the keyboard and because I can touch type (and can see what I'm typing before I send) I don't find it hard to type messages.


As for getting a tired neck due to the 1:1 head tracking, I would say that it's not as bad as you might imagine and personally I have gotten used to it. I can now play for several hours at a time without serious issue. Using a swivel chair also helps a bit here.

I would also say I love flying in the Rift so much that I simply couldn't imagine flying without it now: the experience is just that compelling. I really hope that CloD gets VR support soon, and that it is also a reasonably competitive way to fly, as it is in War Thunder.

Los
Aug-20-2016, 08:50
Check out the ACES High III Beta which does a great job implementing vr. Some of the AH3 dog-fighting and ground attack in vr i have had in the last week have been the among the greatest flight sim experiences I have had in almost 30 years of flight simming.

Also the experience of flying in vr, outweighs the loss of resolution, IMO. It'll be nice when we get higher res goggles. But if you have the money its not a reason to not get into vr.

Skoshi_Tiger
Aug-21-2016, 07:57
Intel's "Mixed Reality" headsets sounds interesting. Not that they're close to being on the market.



Intel has unveiled a virtual-reality headset capable of bringing near-field objects into virtual worlds.

http://www.pcauthority.com.au/News/434133,intel-announces-a-mixed-reality-headset-but-whos-it-actually-aimed-at.aspx?eid=19&edate=20160818&utm_source=20160818&utm_medium=newsletter&utm_campaign=daily_newsletter&nl=daily

ATAG_NakedSquirrel
Aug-21-2016, 23:11
This guy seemed to prefer the Vive over the Rift.

youtube;QNYW9TjziPA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNYW9TjziPA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNYW9TjziPA)



It's hard to say if any of these headsets are worth it without trying.

I got to play around with the Rift for a little while (in a simple, boxy game). It was neat. The headset even had camera on the front with some hand tracking software that worked impressively well with the headset's depth perception. I could easily reach out and grab (at) things. (Actually picking things up wasn't integrated into the demo) I can see how flying around would be a fun experience in VR, but I don't know how pleasant it would be in flight sims regarding visibility.

Chivas
Oct-06-2016, 17:32
Oculus is announcing major improvements to ATW, along will new gpu drivers that will significantly reduce minimum computer specs for VR. This should be very good news for flight simmers with the Rift. More info should be forth coming in the coming days.

69th_SunDog
Oct-08-2016, 13:45
...And some more news for Oculus!

The Rift goes wireless. And added room tracking using 4 outward facing cameras, which deletes the need for an IR tracker.

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2016/10/rift-goes-wireless-ars-walks-around-in-oculus-santa-cruz-vr-prototype/

maelstrom
Oct-09-2016, 16:57
I don't have a VR headset but got to try out both the Vive and the Rift for the first time at the Flight Sim 2016 show at Cosford in the UK yesterday. I gave both a reasonable go and thought that the Vive was the better of the two but this may just have been down to how well they were setup. Both certainly gave a very impressive sense of 3D but, in my opinion, the resolution at present is hopelessly inadequate for flight simming (unless you don't want to be able to read the instruments or see aircraft at long range!). I was very disappointed considering how much people around the flight sim forums seem to rave about how good the experience is. The other thing that I found was that I felt some motion sickness towards the end of my session (and wasn't the only one, apparently). VR headsets may be the future but it's still some way off from what I've seen. Full HD has got to be the minimum resolution to make VR headsets really practical.

That said, the one thing that was truly impressive was the Leap Motion sensor that was fitted to the Vive. It tracked my hand and finger movements with amazing accuracy and no noticeable lag. Just a shame about the poor resolution of the headsets.

Chivas
Oct-11-2016, 18:33
I don't have a VR headset but got to try out both the Vive and the Rift for the first time at the Flight Sim 2016 show at Cosford in the UK yesterday. I gave both a reasonable go and thought that the Vive was the better of the two but this may just have been down to how well they were setup. Both certainly gave a very impressive sense of 3D but, in my opinion, the resolution at present is hopelessly inadequate for flight simming (unless you don't want to be able to read the instruments or see aircraft at long range!). I was very disappointed considering how much people around the flight sim forums seem to rave about how good the experience is. The other thing that I found was that I felt some motion sickness towards the end of my session (and wasn't the only one, apparently). VR headsets may be the future but it's still some way off from what I've seen. Full HD has got to be the minimum resolution to make VR headsets really practical.

That said, the one thing that was truly impressive was the Leap Motion sensor that was fitted to the Vive. It tracked my hand and finger movements with amazing accuracy and no noticeable lag. Just a shame about the poor resolution of the headsets.

I agree these early VR headsets aren't that great for spotting distant aircraft, but reading gauges is no longer a problem especially when increasing the Rifts Pixel Density option. These new VR headsets certainly aren't perfect, but once people fly in VR, "most" no longer have much interest in flying sims with a monitor. As far as spotting distant aircraft, historically "most" users use Icons, which mitigates some of the distance spotting issues.

Robusti
Oct-15-2016, 02:02
I don't have a VR headset but got to try out both the Vive and the Rift for the first time at the Flight Sim 2016 show at Cosford in the UK yesterday. I gave both a reasonable go and thought that the Vive was the better of the two but this may just have been down to how well they were setup. Both certainly gave a very impressive sense of 3D but, in my opinion, the resolution at present is hopelessly inadequate for flight simming (unless you don't want to be able to read the instruments or see aircraft at long range!). I was very disappointed considering how much people around the flight sim forums seem to rave about how good the experience is. The other thing that I found was that I felt some motion sickness towards the end of my session (and wasn't the only one, apparently). VR headsets may be the future but it's still some way off from what I've seen. Full HD has got to be the minimum resolution to make VR headsets really practical.

That said, the one thing that was truly impressive was the Leap Motion sensor that was fitted to the Vive. It tracked my hand and finger movements with amazing accuracy and no noticeable lag. Just a shame about the poor resolution of the headsets.

^^100%

Using labels is total immersion killer. Turns a sim into arcade.

7./JG26_SMOKEJUMPER
Oct-16-2016, 01:52
^^100%

Using labels is total immersion killer. Turns a sim into arcade.




I'm patiently waiting until it's right. Not before.

I was born in 79. I have been waiting my whole like for a VR helmet just about literally. I remember the crappy gimmicks. I don't want to be disappointed so I can wait a bit longer.


Pluuuus if I can't use it in Cliffs; what's the point? Star Citizen isn't out yet either so I'm not flying my Super Hornet so don't need a VR setup, yet.

That game better not be vapourware.

HaJa
Oct-16-2016, 03:59
I bought and tried the Vive and returned it for a refund after three days! The tech is simply not ready yet, in my opinion.
The immersion is absolutely marvellous, no doubt about it. The feeling of motion, height and ease of control on take off and landing is great.
But that said the SED, lag, judder and lack of graphic resolution is, for me, a no go. Had the experience been absolutely smooth I might, just might, have overlooked the SED and low resolution so great was the immersion factor and feeling of being there.

This is just my two cents and my experience and a lot of fellow pilots think otherwise and cannot go back to monitors. I personally will most likely wait for Gen 2.

Regards

EDIT: My specs might be of interest as well.

Intel i7-4790K 4.5 GHz, MSI Gaming 5 with 16 GB RAM, MSI Gaming X 1070 and odd bits and pieces og gaming equipment :)

Swoop
Oct-16-2016, 07:19
I guess it what you want to accept. For instance I want to get into flying DCS more (Normandy coming and interest in my Squad) and the Oculus would be my choice going from their forum, but I know this is very early day and DCS wasn't written for it. I'll have to do lots of reading and playing about to get it working right. I know Oculus are working on a wireless version, but I doubt we'll get a better model for sometime maybe years (4). Still it's a heck of lot of money but I've got the 1080 GPU now.

With the Play station VR out and reports of getting it working on a PC, this is other interesting milestone in VR. It basically opens its up to the masses and I'm tempted to see how that pans out.

Chivas
Oct-16-2016, 13:59
The consensus on the DCS forums from people with both VR units is that the Rift is the better choice, for smoother game play due to the Rifts ATW now ASW software. This Rift software allows for a higher pixel density setting for a sharper pic without introducing judder, and also reduces required system specs. Its certainly not perfect. Some find the experience exceptional, others should wait for atleast the next generation of VR hardware. My monies still on the Oculus team due to their huge human and monetary resource advantage, atleast over the Vive team, but that said I will buy whatever hardware suits my needs best.

Robusti
Oct-16-2016, 20:39
I bought and tried the Vive and returned it for a refund after three days! The tech is simply not ready yet, in my opinion.
The immersion is absolutely marvellous, no doubt about it. The feeling of motion, height and ease of control on take off and landing is great.
But that said the SED, lag, judder and lack of graphic resolution is, for me, a no go. Had the experience been absolutely smooth I might, just might, have overlooked the SED and low resolution so great was the immersion factor and feeling of being there.

This is just my two cents and my experience and a lot of fellow pilots think otherwise and cannot go back to monitors. I personally will most likely wait for Gen 2.

Regards

EDIT: My specs might be of interest as well.

Intel i7-4790K 4.5 GHz, MSI Gaming 5 with 16 GB RAM, MSI Gaming X 1070 and odd bits and pieces og gaming equipment :)

Neither Oculus or Vive are ready for prime time as far as flight sims are concerned. While the sense of immersion was exciting, I was very disappointed in the res and the many glitches and problems with both headsets. I think they were both rushed to market too soon. Gen 2 should hopefully be better, but no one knows anything about what Oculus or Vive will offer. And yes, I can go back to a monitor after using both Vive and Oculus. Maybe not when Gen 2 comes out.

Robusti
Oct-16-2016, 20:40
I'm patiently waiting until it's right. Not before.

I was born in 79. I have been waiting my whole like for a VR helmet just about literally. I remember the crappy gimmicks. I don't want to be disappointed so I can wait a bit longer.


Pluuuus if I can't use it in Cliffs; what's the point? Star Citizen isn't out yet either so I'm not flying my Super Hornet so don't need a VR setup, yet.

That game better not be vapourware.

+1

Robusti
Oct-17-2016, 14:18
Vive is getting ATW.

"Valve is working on "asynchronous reprojection" for the SteamVR platform. Based on the name, that's almost certainly similar to Oculus' recently announced "asynchronous spacewarp" technology, which fills in the gaps necessary to get a 45 frame per second game running acceptably at a VR-ready 90 frames per second (and the "asynchronous timewarp" technology that preceded it). Sony's PlayStation VR also has a similar reprojection system to help fill in frame rate gaps."

maelstrom
Oct-18-2016, 11:19
I agree these early VR headsets aren't that great for spotting distant aircraft, but reading gauges is no longer a problem especially when increasing the Rifts Pixel Density option. These new VR headsets certainly aren't perfect, but once people fly in VR, "most" no longer have much interest in flying sims with a monitor.

Having Googled the pixel density tweak, the general concensus seems to be that it helps in some cases but can cause a noticeable framerate hit as you're having to render many more pixels per frame. Having tried both mainstream VR options, I can only say that I still think that this is a case of the "emperor's new clothes". The immersion versus clarity compromises you have to make when using the current generation of VR headsets are just too much for me. I'm sure that in some games where detail isn't essential, VR is a great leap forward.

I was really pleased when I got my new monitor recently (at half the price of a VR headset) - it may not have the immersion factor that VR gives but the display is excellent and all the gauges, menus and pop-ups are pin-sharp which is much more important to me.

Chivas
Oct-18-2016, 18:25
Having Googled the pixel density tweak, the general concensus seems to be that it helps in some cases but can cause a noticeable framerate hit as you're having to render many more pixels per frame. Having tried both mainstream VR options, I can only say that I still think that this is a case of the "emperor's new clothes". The immersion versus clarity compromises you have to make when using the current generation of VR headsets are just too much for me. I'm sure that in some games where detail isn't essential, VR is a great leap forward.

I was really pleased when I got my new monitor recently (at half the price of a VR headset) - it may not have the immersion factor that VR gives but the display is excellent and all the gauges, menus and pop-ups are pin-sharp which is much more important to me.

There never has been a doubt that increasing the pixel density would require more computer horsepower. It was still a very good option for those with the high-end computers, especially since these early headsets have relatively low resolutions. The new Rift ASW software will now allow most users to significantly increase the pixel density option. That said a monitor is still a decent option for many flight simers, but there is little doubt that monitors and TrackIR won't be the first choice for most flight simmers in the not too distant future.

HaJa
Oct-18-2016, 23:53
I agree with Chivas, probably when Gen 2 comes out the monitor is not an option anymore for simulations.

Robusti
Oct-20-2016, 05:21
michael Abrash says 4K Oculus with 140 degree FOV in 5 years.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtyE5qOB4gw

Mysticpuma
Oct-20-2016, 11:26
I'll have the 1K Oculus with better pixel density in 1-year thanks :)

Vlerkies
Oct-20-2016, 15:30
If I could buy one off the shelf today here, I would have already.

If not for Clod but for other games.

Tinkicker
Oct-30-2016, 14:47
Hmm some very uninformed or misinformed statements on here regarding VR in its present form. I agree it is not yet perfect but........

Having had my rift for a good 4 months now I can confidently say this..... I cannot ever go back to flat screen again. It is the type of person you are, if you love flight and flying, then the rift is a no brainer. You are there. Period. There is nothing like being sat in a full size cockpit and looking back at full size wings with full sized missiles hanging from them, then registering every foot of the 6000ft beneath you. If you suffer from vertigo, you would not want to sample some of the games out there. I'm afraid CLoD has not been in use since July because of this.

If you are the type that wants to shoot people down and closely examine the statistics to see who shot the most down, the rift is not for you, you value the combat over the flying experience, therefore you will be frustrated by the lesser resolution offered by the HMDs, you can still see the planes, but they are a blurry blob unless you get within a mile or so and there is no zoom function as this could induce real bad motion sickness and is, in any case, an immersion killer.

General consensus in the VR community re Rift Vs Vive; is that the Rift is the better option for seated simulations such as CLoD, the display is marginally clearer and has significantly less SDE. Of course others may disagree, which brings me neatly to the next point....

Forget your impressions gained over a quick demo in a store or somesuch. The headsets take a great deal of initial setting up to get the best out of them, just one item slightly off will destroy the image quality. In my DCS A10C...... I CAN READ EVERY GAUGE, SWITCH AND PLACARD IN THE COCKPIT with supersampling set at 2.2. A quick demo will not have everything set up optimally for you, the PC they are using may not be able to run supersampling ( 2.2 is more than 4K rendered over two screens as far as the GPU is concerned) and they may just not have the time to do set it all up correctly when there are lots of people wanting to try it out.

Seeing the keyboard .... absolutely no problem with a bit of a squint. Oculus deliberately engineered a gap around the nose cushion that is not apparent during gameplay, however when you peer down your nose you can see portions of the keyboard. Dead simple solution. I believe the vive has a camera that you can use to see the keyboard.

A downside is that glasses wearers can have trouble, esp those with the big plastic frames. They may not even fit in the headset. I have a pair of steel rimmed ones with small frames that I have no problem with and regularly use the rift for a couple of hours at a time with them; however I have a newer pair that are slightly larger and they are painful after 10 minutes or so.

Another downside is image quality, to get the best, I am running 2.2 pixel density and even with an overclocked GTX980TI STRIX I regularly see framerates drop to 20FPS, usually when turning onto the piano keys at the end of the runway and there is a lot of grass / general clutter to render. Above a couple of thousand feet, this is no longer an issue unless you are turning hard over a large city, at low level and with a lot of traffic. GPU temps are at 75 degrees, so I guess 3 years will see the death of it.

If anyone living in Yorkshire fancies a proper demo, I am happy to oblige. Remember the glasses bit however ... small frames only or the Rift lenses could get scratched.

DD_Crash
Nov-05-2016, 09:40
If you wear glasses read this https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=176453

ush
Jan-13-2017, 10:42
Other thing to be aware is that development in VR is moving apace at a fairly fast rate of knots. HTC are pushing out wireless solutions ( was meant to take years) Intel are touting their inside out tracking for headsets which removes the need for external tracking solutions. HTC are releasing pucks which allow their tracking stations to track third party objects

I think in a years time you may see VR as the default for simulation

Decent resolution
Hand controllers that make fully clickable cockpits as functional as the originals or perhaps even being used as alternatives to HOTAS setups. Or with accessories to allow them to become HOTAS units much like the current units for turning controllers into rifles (central stick placement anyone?)
Inside out tracking
Wireless headset

that would pretty much eliminate the need to sit at the PC bar rudder pedals

dburne
Jan-14-2017, 06:05
I just purchased and received my new Oculus Rift yesterday evening.
Got everything hooked up and loaded up a flight in my Spit in DCS.

Now I had an idea of what to expect, but this thing was way beyond anything I could have even imagined. I was completely blown away.
I got in the cockpit and it was like I was really there, looked all around me and I was literally in that world. Moved my head slightly down to look at an instrument, and it came right into focus. I found myself oftentimes wanting to reach out and flip a switch.

Took off and did some loops, split-s, immelmans - and I felt my stomach practically drop to the floor LOL.
It was unbelievable.

So count me in as one that would love to see support in TF Cliffs!! Gaming on a 2d monitor for me is just not going to be the same anymore...

Tinkicker
Jan-14-2017, 13:56
I just purchased and received my new Oculus Rift yesterday evening.
Got everything hooked up and loaded up a flight in my Spit in DCS.

Now I had an idea of what to expect, but this thing was way beyond anything I could have even imagined. I was completely blown away.
I got in the cockpit and it was like I was really there, looked all around me and I was literally in that world. Moved my head slightly down to look at an instrument, and it came right into focus. I found myself oftentimes wanting to reach out and flip a switch.

Took off and did some loops, split-s, immelmans - and I felt my stomach practically drop to the floor LOL.
It was unbelievable.

So count me in as one that would love to see support in TF Cliffs!! Gaming on a 2d monitor for me is just not going to be the same anymore...


Welcome to the club. Pretty cool is it not?

Top tip. Buy a household fan to blow cool air on your face, it not only keeps the headset cool and ventilated, but adds tremendously to the immersion.

dburne
Jan-14-2017, 17:09
Welcome to the club. Pretty cool is it not?

Top tip. Buy a household fan to blow cool air on your face, it not only keeps the headset cool and ventilated, but adds tremendously to the immersion.

Yes it is, very cool! I got a few hours in with it today, and I am having an absolute blast.
Thanks for the tip, good idea!

Robusti
Jan-19-2017, 12:09
Other thing to be aware is that development in VR is moving apace at a fairly fast rate of knots. HTC are pushing out wireless solutions ( was meant to take years) Intel are touting their inside out tracking for headsets which removes the need for external tracking solutions. HTC are releasing pucks which allow their tracking stations to track third party objects

I think in a years time you may see VR as the default for simulation

Decent resolution
Hand controllers that make fully clickable cockpits as functional as the originals or perhaps even being used as alternatives to HOTAS setups. Or with accessories to allow them to become HOTAS units much like the current units for turning controllers into rifles (central stick placement anyone?)
Inside out tracking
Wireless headset

that would pretty much eliminate the need to sit at the PC bar rudder pedals

Nice.
The future looks bright! Can't wait for V2.
Looks like open platform is also the future of VR. Good for everyone.

http://www.pcgamer.com/tim-sweeney-claims-htc-vive-is-outselling-oculus-rift-2-to-1/
http://www.glixel.com/interviews/epics-tim-sweeney-on-vr-and-the-future-of-civilization-w459561

Logan
Jan-20-2017, 19:08
Went with the Vive, Like Don said the Spit is just awesome in VR,like you're really sitting there. So are the rest. I'm not sure I could fly a 2d screen anymore! I love CLOD but will be spending a lot of time in DCS now. If Clod, ROF, and BOS would go VR..I'd never leave my house, or chair. Well maybe for a shower once in a while.

Erpr.Gr.210_Mölders
Mar-15-2017, 07:38
An idea for the ones low on budget! :):):)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__LpIYxkZz0

Mastiff
Mar-16-2017, 14:40
lots of sceptics in here...

Mastiff
Mar-16-2017, 14:42
An idea for the ones low on budget! :):):)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__LpIYxkZz0

so do I have to hire these guys to give me that realism?

Erpr.Gr.210_Mölders
Mar-17-2017, 06:56
so do I have to hire these guys to give me that realism?

It seems so...but fortunately we've got " free from payments " wives and girlfriends! :):):)

Flyingblind
Mar-18-2017, 04:02
Huh? You think my wife would stand there pushing me back and forth whilst I scream like a girl? Anyway - they aren't free.

invictus84
Mar-18-2017, 11:51
I'm in a holding patern myself. Tried the Oculus in December at the local Best Buy. Sadly not with a flight sim but I was still very impressed. I'm waiting for my two favorite sims (CLoD and BoS) to support VR. I like DCS, but it alone isn't enough for me to want to buy one.

I also know I'll end up having to completely redesign or scrap my home cockpit once I take the plunge.....tho' I admit these guys have me interested:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-e8iFCLmTY&t=137s

I shutter to think of the conversation with my wife that will be required when if I decide to buy that thing.... :recon:

priller26
Mar-28-2017, 16:50
Having read up on both..I think the Vive is the way to go for now, however..IMO VR is still in its infancy.much like 3d graphics cards were at one point..the Vive..OR..etc are really the first iterations of the hardware/software...2-5 years down the road its going to be a whole different world...IF it really catches on. Thinks 3d TV sets...all the hype..and amounted to relatively nothing. I do think VR is much more promising.

ush
Mar-29-2017, 09:56
I'm a vive user and I felt it was the best choice then and now BUT...

The rift had its price cut and if all you care about is sims rather than roomscale then that makes it more attractive

Seated simulators are a far easier proposition for VR than most other games, all they need now is the resolution to improve. Which will happen.


BTW any word on how Team Fusion are coming along with the VR thing?

dburne
Mar-30-2017, 09:41
I'm a vive user and I felt it was the best choice then and now BUT...

The rift had its price cut and if all you care about is sims rather than roomscale then that makes it more attractive

Seated simulators are a far easier proposition for VR than most other games, all they need now is the resolution to improve. Which will happen.


BTW any word on how Team Fusion are coming along with the VR thing?

Granted the Vive does Room Scale better - currently Oculus considers Room Scale as experimental and states so on setup - the Rift is very good for standing games also as well as moving around. Best thing I did was adding the Touch controllers for my Rift, they are awesome. My play area lay out is around 7ft x 8ft - just considered a moderate size area by Oculus, and I can play FPS games with Touch moving all around, turning all around, etc with no problem at all. Kneeling down on the floor to hide behind an object in Dead and Buried whilst shooting the bad guys. While combat flight sims are my first love and get most of my attention, I find that the addition of Touch has opened up a new world of gaming for me as well that I am having a blast in when taking a break from flying the planes.

ush
Apr-14-2017, 08:59
I find that the addition of Touch has opened up a new world of gaming for me as well that I am having a blast in when taking a break from flying the planes.

6-7 rounds of boxing in the Thrill of the Fight will get you sweating, and its beats just shadow boxing to a recording of some guy shouting out combinations. Then you can have a go at pavlov which is basically counter strike VR, less taxing but you're still twisting, turning, ducking as you shoot up the other guys. PC gaming as exercise who'd a thunk it?

Has anyone tried the recent VR update to IL2:BOS? I tried BOS for a few minutes a year or two back and it seemed pretty poor in comparison to COD, DCS etc. but the VR implementation is really good. Reminds me Il2 when it first came out all those years back..except you're in the cockpit now. :-)

dburne
Apr-15-2017, 10:20
6-7 rounds of boxing in the Thrill of the Fight will get you sweating, and its beats just shadow boxing to a recording of some guy shouting out combinations. Then you can have a go at pavlov which is basically counter strike VR, less taxing but you're still twisting, turning, ducking as you shoot up the other guys. PC gaming as exercise who'd a thunk it?

Has anyone tried the recent VR update to IL2:BOS? I tried BOS for a few minutes a year or two back and it seemed pretty poor in comparison to COD, DCS etc. but the VR implementation is really good. Reminds me Il2 when it first came out all those years back..except you're in the cockpit now. :-)

:thumbsup:
Yes, I have been flying it a lot since the initial VR release on Tuesday.

It is incredible, they have done a fantastic job of implementing VR into BoS.

Robusti
Jun-05-2017, 20:06
Now that Palmer Luckey has been pushed out of Facebook/OculusVR, the direction of OculusVR seems to be moving in a much different direction:

"'I don't think that good virtual reality is fully there yet,' said Zuckerberg. 'It's going to take five or 10 more years of development before we get to where we all want to go, where there's both that great experience that is affordable enough for everyone to be able to use and where you have the software experiences ... that people want to use.'

That hasn't stopped Facebook from aggressively moving into social VR........

'Facebook is an app that runs on phones, but we don't own the phones or run the phones,' said Zuckerberg. 'So my first reaction upon seeing what they had built with VR was, wow, this is a platform where you could build some amazing social experiences … so whoever builds an active network and community around that social experience first, I think, has the best shot of building out those social experiences for the world … just buying a headset or virtual reality product isn't that useful if there isn't good content — right?'

Reading the virtual tea leaves, it's hard not to think that, while Facebook may indeed remain committed to VR for the next decade and beyond, the future of Oculus hardware is a lot less certain."

Looks like the dust is settling and Oculus is is going to be leaning heavily towards a social media platform, while Vive and their open platform will be leaning heavily toward a gaming/simming platform.

dburne
Jun-06-2017, 08:09
I don't think Oculus is going to walk away from the high end VR market. Certainly I could be wrong, but from what I have seen they are still committed to that market segment. They are pushing out updates even more regularly now and making some nice improvements and changes to the software experience. They have added "official" support for three sensor setups and getting better at room scale. Plus investing a crap load of money into supplementing game development.

They also appear to have some fairly high goals for the next generation of the Oculus Rift.
I suspect they are going to develop aggressively for both markets, mobile and PC. They recently segmented those two sections to allow more focused development of each.

Chivas
Jun-06-2017, 17:39
Many people thought that Facebook would dumb down the initial consumer Rift when they bought Oculus. It didn't happen. The best social experience will still require higher FOV's, higher HZ resolutions, better tracking, etc etc, that the gaming headsets will try to achieve for the foreseeable future. I think we will see a number of very highend VR headsets from a number of different companies in the next five years, and beyond. Oculus should be one of them, especially since they have the money, and probably one of the largest and most talented group of people working in one of the most high tech exclusive VR facilities on the planet.

Although it will be interesting to see how their partnership with Samsung will play out since Samsung partnered with another company producing VR headsets. That said Samsung did provide VR displays for both the Vive and Rift headsets, although they did supply a higher PPI display to Oculus than they did for Vive.

ATAG_Dave
Jun-06-2017, 18:33
some info here on some new Samsung VR displays for a future version of the Rift / Vive

http://www.roadtovr.com/samsungs-new-vr-display-nearly-3-5x-pixels-rift-vive/

BOO
Jun-07-2017, 04:10
Its very disappointing that amongst all of this there isn't a single mention of an incorporated beer hat. Clearly simmers are not the intended end consumer :-)

dburne
Jun-07-2017, 09:16
some info here on some new Samsung VR displays for a future version of the Rift / Vive

http://www.roadtovr.com/samsungs-new-vr-display-nearly-3-5x-pixels-rift-vive/

Next generation is certainly looking promising!

Robusti
Jun-07-2017, 10:40
I don't think Oculus is going to walk away from the high end VR market.

I agree, they will continue to create a quality product. However, it is now clear that their intention for Oculus in the future will be to focus on being a social media platform and not so much a gaming/simming platform for serious gamers. Facebook is an app that runs on phones as Zuckerburg clearly points out. They had intended all along to make Oculus a social media platform, that is one of the reasons (as well as his political trolling) Luckey was pushed out. Its too bad, but we saw this coming the minute Facebook took control.

VR has a bright future and there are plenty of other headsets that will be focusing on being foremost a gaming/simming platform. I look forward to Gen 2 and 3 regardless.



Oculus Winds Down VR Filmmaking as Facebook Prioritizes 3D Social Media
http://observer.com/2017/05/oculus-story-studio-facebook-owlchemy-within/

ATAG_Dave
Jun-07-2017, 19:38
Next generation is certainly looking promising!

Indeed - someone in the iracing community has just got his hands on the FOVE HMD in the last couple of days (the one with eye tracking / Foveated rendering), it only runs 70FPS which might be a problem for some but his initial impressions of image quality versus the Rift was "wow". So it will be interesting to hear his thoughts when he does a back to back test versus the Rift.

Chivas
Jun-07-2017, 21:56
Its highly unlikely that Facebook/Oculus will limit the sale of their VR headset to the social market, when there are ten other markets including the gaming market to sell their VR products too. Palmer really put his foot in it, when he funded fake news to support Trump. Palmer was a great frontman, but Palmers gone, and Oculus has hired hundreds of highly qualified VR tech people, who's qualifications equaled or surpassed Palmers technical abilities.

Robusti
Jun-08-2017, 00:07
It is a fact that Facebook will be focusing on mobile VR. It is a fact that mobile VR has outsold all other VR headsets and that sales of Oculus Rift and Vive are now sluggish. The money is in mobile VR and that is where Facebook intends to go.

Gear VR is far and away the leader with almost 7m expected to be sold in 2017
SuperData's latest figures show 782,000 units sold in Q1; HTC Vive continues to outpace Oculus Rift despite price cut

PlayStation VR is Outselling Oculus Rift 4 to 1

With these numbers, its not hard to see why Facebook would focus on mobile VR. Palmer Luckey's usefulness as innovator has run its course and Facebook has indicated they will be now turning to hardware that has lower specs and a much cheaper price to enhance sales for the social media VR platform they will be pushing. Facebook's purge of Oculus people includes Brendan Irbe and 4 other longtime Oculus execs. They are now going after the GearVR market, not the Vive market. Zuckerburg has been calling the shots for quite a while now and is putting in manpower to follow his vision. He says gen 2 is at lest a year out and VR won't be what it should be for 5-10 years.

Chivas
Jun-08-2017, 14:53
Its been a well known and blatantly obvious that mobile VR would outsell PC VR from the time VR was first mentioned, and one of the reasons Oculus invested in both mobile, and PC VR. So sales numbers aren't suddenly going to suggest to the Facebook/Oculus partnership that they should get out of the highend VR market for the foreseeable future. Just a few months ago Oculus showed a very highend standalone prototype, and continue to R&D further VR enhancements in one of the most advanced VR facilities in the world. Eventually we won't need a PC, as highend VR components will fit in the Mobile form factor. Companies like Facebook will be striving to build the best mobile VR experience possible that doesn't suggest these products won't be able to run highend flight sims.

Robusti
Jun-08-2017, 19:01
They are now going after the GearVR market, not the Vive market.

Further to this:

Facebook’s Oculus fights to make VR cheaper

Facebook's CEO during the trial may give fans of Oculus Rift and Touch hardware some cause for concern, as it's clear he's more interested in VR software as a platform than fighting for space in the increasingly crowded VR hardware space.

Wednesday, March 01, 2017 - 02
Facebook CEO Mark Zuckerberg envisions a world with virtual reality in all of our homes. And now the company’s virtual reality arm is taking a step to cut prices of its gadgets and will continue to battle them down going forward.

Facebook’s Oculus Rift has not been able to improve its situation despite a price cut in February, and it’s still the lowest seller device.

It makes sense Facebook would shift to a social media platform. It is what they do. They are not a gaming app or a gaming platform and it would be bad business to go down that road.

EAF331 Starfire
Jun-09-2017, 04:44
I just bought a gtx1080 because I believe that VR are the future of our flight sims and I plan to own a VR set within the next 6-12 months. But...I am very much in doubt of which VR to choose even after listening to those of my Sqd mate who fly with VR :stunned:

I would appriciate some of you sharing your insight an thoughts on the Pros and cons of what on the marked right now as well as the rumors of whats to come within the next 12 months?
(please dont get into a flamewar)

Currently I fly BoX, Clod and DCS Normandy and I expect to continue this the next 12-24 months.

Swoop
Jun-09-2017, 11:04
I've got the same card and the Rift. BOS & DCS work well in offline campaigns for me, I just struggle spotting stuff and flicking labels on and off helps. The immersion is just stunning and still makes me smile and the spotting could be down to my aging eyesight as others seems okay. (you can get prescription lenses inserts)

I would think that upping the res with the next gen of VR headsets would need two 1080s or a newer single card. So with your 1080, I'd jump in and enjoy the Rift now, especially if its for sit down simming.

The next version is a couple of years off I believe and I hope will address ergonomic improvements to make the headset lighter and more comfortable (its okay now but couple of hours is max for me especially when warm)

ATAG_Highseas
Jun-09-2017, 11:16
I just bought a gtx1080 because I believe that VR are the future of our flight sims and I plan to own a VR set within the next 6-12 months. But...I am very much in doubt of which VR to choose even after listening to those of my Sqd mate who fly with VR :stunned:

I would appriciate some of you sharing your insight an thoughts on the Pros and cons of what on the marked right now as well as the rumors of whats to come within the next 12 months?
(please dont get into a flamewar)

Currently I fly BoX, Clod and DCS Normandy and I expect to continue this the next 12-24 months.

Ive been following the various reviews on these and have come to the following conclusion:

Best of the two sounds like the Vive

For sit down gaming though (and especially when factoring in cost). Sounds to me like the Rift makes more sense.

This is based as I say on nothing more than having read a tonne of reviews.

For me at the moment the best option right now remains TrackIR because VR isnt yet in Cliffs. I don't play enough BoS to justify a VR headset purchase...

If it were £200 rather than £500 I might think about it.

DK2 units seem to be going for about £150 when they pop up on auction sites. I'm not really tempted enough by those though either.

Robusti
Jun-09-2017, 11:33
I just bought a gtx1080 because I believe that VR are the future of our flight sims and I plan to own a VR set within the next 6-12 months. But...I am very much in doubt of which VR to choose even after listening to those of my Sqd mate who fly with ER :stunned:

I would appriciate some of you sharing your insight an thoughts on the Pros and cons of what on the marked right now as well as the rumors of whats to come within the next 12 months?
(please dont get into a flamewar)

Currently I fly BoX, Clod and DCS Normandy and I expect to continue this the next 12-24 months.

In my opinion, the feeling of flight is excellent in all of them, but none of the Gen 1 sets were ready for primetime as far as resolution and being user friendly. I bought both, tried them and returned both as did others I know. It is really best for HOTAS only flyers. If you have a cockpit with switches, it is near useless, because they need a better solution for using buttons/switches etc. Peeking and relying on muscle memory are fails for cockpits and touch screens. This problem has proven to be a real pain at this point and why pitbuilders are not adopting the technology. For the sims you are using, I would say Gen 1 Oculus is very slightly better than Vive resolution wise, but Vive is a better overall headset.

It has been reported that neither Oculus or Vive will have Gen 2 for at least another year. I am waiting for Gen 2, because IMO none of them are good enough for me resolution wise and I am not putting down all that cash for sub par early adopter hardware, despite the immersion it provides.

Also, with Facebook focusing heavily on social media VR and low cost/low spec hardware in the future, it is looking like things will really be changing in Gen 2, but that determination will have to wait for another year.

My 2 cents: The feeling of flight is excellent, but the technology is not yet ready for primetime.

ATAG_NakedSquirrel
Jun-09-2017, 12:07
I did a lot of reading and watching reviews before buying VR. I own the Vive, and I've had a chance to try the Rift. I find there is very little difference between the two. Most of the reviews I've read or comparison videos I've watched are full of hot air. A lot of the points they make are false or way overblown. I think they just exaggerate points to make their videos longer or add more words to their articles.

Some of the common points I see a lot of reviews state:

1. The Vive is heavy and uncomfortable
- I expected to pick up a brick after reading all the reviews on how heavy the Vive is. The Vive is not heavy at all. In fact, the first impression my girlfriend made about the headset when I was unboxing it was her being impressed at how light the HMD is. It looks like it should be a heavy brick, but it is impressively light. Granted... it's heavier than the rift, but unless you have a baby's neck, I think you'll be fine.
- I feel that the Vive is (slightly?) more noticeable on your face a little more than the Rift. I find myself having to reach up and hold the headset to keep it from slipping out of focus at times when I'm quickly checking six. I've heard friends using the Rift have to do the same thing with violent head movement.
- The funny thing I noticed in the Vive is that I can push it out of focus if I smile too much (due to the way it sits on my cheeks).
-In the end, the VR headsets aren't heavier than night vision goggles.


2. The Vive is complicated to set up.
- I found the Vive very simple and easy to set up it took about 20 minutes to get the hardware and software set-up. One thing I like about the Vive over the Rift is that The Vive only uses 1 USB and 1 HDMI port. The "cameras" on the Vive only have to be hooked up to a power source, so you can put them wherever you like, and you don't have to worry about running cables all over your room.

3. The Vive and Rift must run at 90FPS for a comfortable game experience
- Both the Vive and Rift use software tricks to keep you from getting motion sick. It's called Asynchronous Timewarp in the Rift and Reprojection in the Vive. I had some first hand experience while playing Elite Dangerous in the Vive. My game dropped to 10FPS due to a memory leak in the game. Looking around my cockpit was still smooth, but I noticed ships were lagging around me. I chalked it up to netcode originally. I didn't notice it was the FPS until I took off my headset to see the FPS was nearly 10.

4. Image Quality Vive vs Rift
- There is very little difference in image quality between the two. I feel the screen door effect (the visible dark space between pixels) is a little more evident in the Vive... but that might be because I've been playing flight sims on the Vive. I was able to see the screen door effect on the Rift, but I don't remember it being as pronounced.
- There is definitely a difference in the lenses. The image on the Vive is more clear in the center of your view than the edges. I don't remember this effect on the Rift. If it was there, it wasn't as significant.
- "God rays" are slightly more pronounced on the Rift, which is basically light reflecting off of the lenses creating glare, but they both have this effect. It mostly occurs when you have very bright images on dark backgrounds (white text on black background)
- I've read the FoV on the Vive is slightly wider than the Rift.. but you're splitting hairs to notice the difference.


5. Headphone quality
- Who gives a crap?! What PC gamer doesn't have headphones already?


6. Vive is more expensive
- The Vive was priced the same as the Rift + touch + extra camera for roomscale. Considering the Vive comes with touch and roomscale, it seems fairly comparable. If you never plan to use roomscale, you might as well just go with a Rift. Roomscale is neat but it is still a bit of a novelty as there aren't many quality roomscale games.


Overall... I think they are both great headsets. I like the Vive because of the tracking system, and because it doesn't require as many cables to hook up. (I have enough cables to get tangled with flight sim and racing gear). The resolution of both headsets still isn't comparable to a monitor at 1920x1080 or 4k (So don't get ready to throw your monitor in the garbage yet. Unless the sim has some sort of LOD scaling, you're at a disadvantage with an HMD vs a monitor. It is also much more work to look around and check your six with an HMD on than with TrackIR, but the immersion makes it worth it. The 1:1 3d effect is very impressive in VR. In the end, you'll be happy with whichever headset you decide to buy.

ATAG_Highseas
Jun-09-2017, 12:20
Very measured piece.

Thank you.

Chivas
Jun-09-2017, 13:27
I just bought a gtx1080 because I believe that VR are the future of our flight sims and I plan to own a VR set within the next 6-12 months. But...I am very much in doubt of which VR to choose even after listening to those of my Sqd mate who fly with VR :stunned:

I would appriciate some of you sharing your insight an thoughts on the Pros and cons of what on the marked right now as well as the rumors of whats to come within the next 12 months?
(please dont get into a flamewar)

Currently I fly BoX, Clod and DCS Normandy and I expect to continue this the next 12-24 months.

Currently for flight sims the Rift is the better choice. But neither is good enough yet, because of their relatively low resolutions. Initially most reviewers who have both, found the Rift is better suited for flight and racing sims, because the Rift displays have smaller spaces between pixels, which allows spotting aircraft and reading gauges a little easier. Reviewers preferred the Vive for other games because it came out with hand controllers at release. Now that the Rift has controllers that has changed. Overall the Rift is slightly more comfortable, slightly better componants, at a cheaper pricepoint. The Vive has a slighty wider FOV, but at the cost of clarity. Many believe the Vive tracking is slightly superior. The immersion with both headsets is awesome, but there is still room for major improvement.

I don't care which unit is superior, and will buy the one that best suits my flight sim needs. There should be a few more manufacturors to choose from in the next couple of years.

dburne
Jun-09-2017, 14:48
I absolutely love my Rift.
Started using it on Jan 15th, and have not gamed on my 2d monitor since then.
I got the Touch controllers as well, and am very glad I did. They opened up a whole new world of gaming and experiences for me.

Combat flight sims are still my first and main love, but I do enjoy some breaks with doing other games and experiences with the Touch controllers. Exploring the International Space Station is a real treat. Pulling myself through that thing in 0 gravity still makes my stomach quezzy lol. Or loading up Robo Recall for some fun fast paced action for a nice change - those Robots as one fights them are quite hilarious. Or sitting down in the Captain's chair of the Starship Enterprise to see how I fare against some Klingon Birds of Prey. Just the shuttle ride around the starship at the introduction is breathtaking.
Or when I am really ready for my main area of fun, I strap into the Spit in DCS in Normandy and have at it. Or in the Yak-1 Series 169 in Battle of Stalingrad.

I like many others, was very concerned over the lower resolution I had been reading about prior to making my purchase. In fact, I had decided I too was going to hold out for the " next generation" as surely it would be much better and be the wise thing to do.
But then, I kept reading on forums all these folks expressing how much fun they were having with their Rifts/Vives. Whilst certainly I would see some comment that it was not worth it to them due to the resolution, it appeared the vast majority were just the opposite. Loving their devices. And oftentimes some of those negative opinions were from folks that had not even tried it.

So, I threw caution to the wind and ordered the thing. I have, since receiving it, used it in some form or fashion just about every day since.
And still to this day I am practically blown away each time I do. I find myself doing my combat flight simming far more now, than I did prior to getting the Rift.

For me I can sum up the difference in one way:
Instead of viewing the world I was gaming in on my 27" monitor, I am now virtually inside that world with it all around me. I thought Track IR was a huge deal when it came out , it is nothing like the leap I experienced when I strapped my Rift on for the first time.

Understandably though, with the cost of entry and PC power one needs for it, it is a tough decision to make. Knowing it's current weaknesses, maybe it is smart to wait for the next generation in a couple of years. But at the same time, when that next generation comes out, will it also be wise to wait on the third generation as undoubtedly it will even be much better as well...

I can only say for me, I am so very glad I did it when I did.

ATAG_Highseas
Jun-09-2017, 15:27
Understandably though, with the cost of entry and PC power one needs for it, it is a tough decision to make. Knowing it's current weaknesses, maybe it is smart to wait for the next generation in a couple of years. But at the same time, when that next generation comes out, will it also be wise to wait on the third generation as undoubtedly it will even be much better as well...

I can only say for me, I am so very glad I did it when I did.

It has occurred to me also that if i wait for gen 2..... i will need a whole new pc as well.

presently I'm good for current VR.

Tempting. We will see

ATAG_Dave
Jun-09-2017, 19:06
Cant comment on the rift v Vive which is better debate as I only have a Rift - I know in iracing the consensus is the Rift performs better for that sim than the vive, but as others have said there are other games where the opposite is true. I can say if you are thnking about getting one (either) and have the cash then just get one and try it.

The the immersion factor is off the scale - like dburne I have not wished to 2d game since getting mine (something i guess you could view as positive or a negative).

Most of the time i use mine in iRacing - having previously used that sim on a single monitor. Its a great racing sim whichever way you look at it (see what I did there?!) but for me the Rift / VR just brouight the whole thing to life - so realistic. Its bloomin mervellous.

Ive tried it with DCS (Im not a DCS fan, i dont know why but it just leaves me cold for some reason) and again the immersion is just amazing. The thing that struck me the most is the sense of correct scale - one of those things you dont realise is 'wrong' when playing on a monitor until you then try it in VR, it exactly feels 'right' you have a real sense of the aircraft you are sitting in and its the right size / all proportions are correct (this will make no sense to anyone who hasnt tried it in VR - one of the problems of VR is that it is impossible to explain the benefits of it, they can only be discovered by trying it), the ground is the right distance beneath you as you taxi / take off / land and so on. It all feels real....

Not so nice things:
- It can get bloody hot (ie sweat pouring down my face after a 40 minute race)
- The resolution is frankly poor - theres no getting around it. In iRacing its massively outweighed by the other benefits, but I can see how it might be a significant disadvantage in a combat flight sim. As would the fact that you actually have to look behind you - no magic false Track IR multipliers at work allowing you to fly as if the pilot is in fact an owl - and as you have a 90 degree (approx) FOV this greatly restricts your rearward view at the periphery (made even worse by the fact that the image is blurry towards the edges of your vision) - a rough equivalent would be to sit in a chair and try and look behind you with a scuba mask on which restricts peripheral vision in a similar fashion. VR pilots will quickly learn to fly with others.....
- Some people suffer if the FPS drops to a lower level (Im stupid enough not to even notice it thankfully)

Having said that if Clod had VR implemented (assuming frame rates are acceptable) I would choose VR over 2d everytime despite the disadvantage I may have over Track IR (etc) users. I would have more fun than they would have regardless of sucess rates.

And when id finished my sortie for the evening i could quckly grab 15 minutes of Robo Recall mayhem to round off the evening :D If you have youngish kids its worth buying the Rift just to p*ss yourself laughing at the reactions of your kids when they first try robo recall :D

Happy shopping all :)

S!

dburne
Jun-09-2017, 19:11
And when id finished my sortie for the evening i could quckly grab 15 minutes of Robo Recall mayhem to round off the evening :D If you have youngish kids its worth buying the Rift just to p*ss yourself laughing at the reactions of your kids when they first try robo recall :D


LOL, I do the same. I love that game for fun breaks in between my combat flight simming in VR, it is an absolute hoot!

ATAG_Dave
Jun-09-2017, 19:30
I just bought a gtx1080 because I believe that VR are the future of our flight sims and I plan to own a VR set within the next 6-12 months. But...I am very much in doubt of which VR to choose even after listening to those of my Sqd mate who fly with VR :stunned:

I would appriciate some of you sharing your insight an thoughts on the Pros and cons of what on the marked right now as well as the rumors of whats to come within the next 12 months?
(please dont get into a flamewar)

Currently I fly BoX, Clod and DCS Normandy and I expect to continue this the next 12-24 months.

Seeing as my last post didnt really adress the vive v Rift question below are some quotes from the iracing forum from a thread entitled 'Rift v Vive - which is better'


"also the rift comes with its own headphones which IMO have a very impressive sound about them"

"I like the Oculus software, especially ATW and ASW, for making things a bit smoother than OpenVR currently has (but may be closing the gap in the future). With the Vive headphone strap, that's no longer a differentiator. Comfort can be, if you can try the two out. I think the Vive works a bit better with glasses, but both can get lens inserts."

"Another consideration is that the Rift can be bought without the touch controllers so it's cheaper to get started (and you can upgrade later). The Vive Lighthouse system for tracking can be simpler as it doesn't require a USB3.0 port, and can just be mounted on the wall. "

"The Rift is more comfortable to wear for long periods of time - it's a bit lighter and more balanced on your head. I also hear it's a bit more breathable, but having used both I didn't feel like there was a noticeable difference there."

"On the other hand, the Vive does roomscale tracking a bit better than the Rift. The lighthouse system is more consistent and doesn't lose tracking as easily. But if you're planning on mostly sim racing and only using a bit of roomscale or standing VR, the Rift will perform admirably."

"The big difference for me (I race just as much as I play roomscale VR games) was the controllers for each. The Vive's controllers are fine, but the Rift's are SO much better, and way more immersive."

"Oh, and lastly, the Vive is a bit brighter, which is nice because...well...it's brighter, but also lends itself to a more noticeable screen door effect. "

"Rift at home Vive at work." - what job must this guy do? Ill get fired if my boss found me at my desk wearing a VR HMD :D

"For me the Rift offered a couple benefits over the Vive. One, it was cheaper as I only use it for seated VR and not roomscale stuff. It also offered nicer headphones for the asking price. For my head, the Rift was also more comfortable and I found it easier to mov my head around with as it is lighter and had only a single cord. The Vive picture was brighter overall, but for some reason I feel text is easier to read text in the Rift. Overall image quality is basically the same between both sets I felt. "

Hope thats useful

S!

ATAG_Highseas
Jun-10-2017, 14:09
Im actually genuinely tempted.... but. .. Basically my rig is pretty much centred on cliffs of Dover. I'm actually a bit scared if I'm honest that rift might have the potential to drag me away.

Sounds dumb on one level.... if something else is better do that.... but on another....

Cliffs is home. id hate to suddenly play it and feel it was somehow.... substandard.

Fear of that is what is stopping me.

Also.... I want my mummy.

Robusti
Jun-12-2017, 07:03
I did a lot of reading and watching reviews before buying VR. I own the Vive, and I've had a chance to try the Rift. I find there is very little difference between the two. Most of the reviews I've read or comparison videos I've watched are full of hot air. A lot of the points they make are false or way overblown. I think they just exaggerate points to make their videos longer or add more words to their articles.

Some of the common points I see a lot of reviews state:

1. The Vive is heavy and uncomfortable
- I expected to pick up a brick after reading all the reviews on how heavy the Vive is. The Vive is not heavy at all. In fact, the first impression my girlfriend made about the headset when I was unboxing it was her being impressed at how light the HMD is. It looks like it should be a heavy brick, but it is impressively light. Granted... it's heavier than the rift, but unless you have a baby's neck, I think you'll be fine.
- I feel that the Vive is (slightly?) more noticeable on your face a little more than the Rift. I find myself having to reach up and hold the headset to keep it from slipping out of focus at times when I'm quickly checking six. I've heard friends using the Rift have to do the same thing with violent head movement.
- The funny thing I noticed in the Vive is that I can push it out of focus if I smile too much (due to the way it sits on my cheeks).
-In the end, the VR headsets aren't heavier than night vision goggles.


2. The Vive is complicated to set up.
- I found the Vive very simple and easy to set up it took about 20 minutes to get the hardware and software set-up. One thing I like about the Vive over the Rift is that The Vive only uses 1 USB and 1 HDMI port. The "cameras" on the Vive only have to be hooked up to a power source, so you can put them wherever you like, and you don't have to worry about running cables all over your room.

3. The Vive and Rift must run at 90FPS for a comfortable game experience
- Both the Vive and Rift use software tricks to keep you from getting motion sick. It's called Asynchronous Timewarp in the Rift and Reprojection in the Vive. I had some first hand experience while playing Elite Dangerous in the Vive. My game dropped to 10FPS due to a memory leak in the game. Looking around my cockpit was still smooth, but I noticed ships were lagging around me. I chalked it up to netcode originally. I didn't notice it was the FPS until I took off my headset to see the FPS was nearly 10.

4. Image Quality Vive vs Rift
- There is very little difference in image quality between the two. I feel the screen door effect (the visible dark space between pixels) is a little more evident in the Vive... but that might be because I've been playing flight sims on the Vive. I was able to see the screen door effect on the Rift, but I don't remember it being as pronounced.
- There is definitely a difference in the lenses. The image on the Vive is more clear in the center of your view than the edges. I don't remember this effect on the Rift. If it was there, it wasn't as significant.
- "God rays" are slightly more pronounced on the Rift, which is basically light reflecting off of the lenses creating glare, but they both have this effect. It mostly occurs when you have very bright images on dark backgrounds (white text on black background)
- I've read the FoV on the Vive is slightly wider than the Rift.. but you're splitting hairs to notice the difference.


5. Headphone quality
- Who gives a crap?! What PC gamer doesn't have headphones already?


6. Vive is more expensive
- The Vive was priced the same as the Rift + touch + extra camera for roomscale. Considering the Vive comes with touch and roomscale, it seems fairly comparable. If you never plan to use roomscale, you might as well just go with a Rift. Roomscale is neat but it is still a bit of a novelty as there aren't many quality roomscale games.


Overall... I think they are both great headsets. I like the Vive because of the tracking system, and because it doesn't require as many cables to hook up. (I have enough cables to get tangled with flight sim and racing gear). The resolution of both headsets still isn't comparable to a monitor at 1920x1080 or 4k (So don't get ready to throw your monitor in the garbage yet. Unless the sim has some sort of LOD scaling, you're at a disadvantage with an HMD vs a monitor. It is also much more work to look around and check your six with an HMD on than with TrackIR, but the immersion makes it worth it. The 1:1 3d effect is very impressive in VR. In the end, you'll be happy with whichever headset you decide to buy.
+1

DoubleStandards
Jun-13-2017, 00:13
I really think most of the "one is better than the other" crowd are merely people trying to convince themselves and the world that the HMD they bought was the better option. You get a new bike as a kid and its the best bike in the world as far as your concerned. I have had the opportunity to experience both the 'big' name units and a couple lesser known HMDs and have to say, the experience is pretty damn similar. Now that Oculus room scale is out of beta we can check that off the "I'm better than you" list as well.

I personally own Oculus so that is what I suggest to friends when they ask, but I bet if I owned a Vive instead that would be my suggestion.


:salute:DS

EAF331 Starfire
Jun-13-2017, 06:02
I really think most of the "one is better than the other" crowd are merely people trying to convince themselves and the world that the HMD they bought was the better option. You get a new bike as a kid and its the best bike in the world as far as your concerned. I have had the opportunity to experience both the 'big' name units and a couple lesser known HMDs and have to say, the experience is pretty damn similar. Now that Oculus room scale is out of beta we can check that off the "I'm better than you" list as well.

I personally own Oculus so that is what I suggest to friends when they ask, but I bet if I owned a Vive instead that would be my suggestion.


:salute:DS


You are off topic, DS!
Please refrain from judging the guys trying to help me when I asked for pros and cons from people with sim experience. I need those opinions in order for me to get a base of which to form my own and I am quite capable of sifting though what is what.
Objectivity is by nature impossible and we all know it. But we try anyway.

Thanks to all your guys who have taken the time to write your thoughs in order to help me.
My decision on what to buy wont be made before I have the money available. But you though have given me an idea of what to look for.

Cheers

Robusti
Jul-13-2017, 19:54
Oculus Rift Price Slashed Amid Sales Concerns
http://news.sky.com/story/oculus-rift-price-slashed-again-amid-concerns-over-sales-10943409

$399 USD
https://www.theverge.com/2017/7/10/15943984/oculus-rift-touch-summer-sale-price-cut-vr-bundle

If you want one get one while you still can. If Oculus loses its current court case they will be shut down from selling any permanently.

ZeniMax, the holding company behind popular games like "Doom" and "Fallout," is seeking a permanent injunction against sales of the Oculus Rift headset
Federal judge will soon rule if FB can continue to sell Oculus Rift headsets, after jury ruled company stole computer code used for their development.

All this as Facebook shifts focus to Unveil cheaper Wireless VR Headset for the Masses

J2_SteveF
Jul-21-2017, 09:46
You are off topic, DS!
Please refrain from judging the guys trying to help me when I asked for pros and cons from people with sim experience. I need those opinions in order for me to get a base of which to form my own and I am quite capable of sifting though what is what.
Objectivity is by nature impossible and we all know it. But we try anyway.

Thanks to all your guys who have taken the time to write your thoughs in order to help me.
My decision on what to buy wont be made before I have the money available. But you though have given me an idea of what to look for.

Cheers

He's not off topic at all.

I've tried both and found them both to be fairly equal in the image and experience or at least neither stood out from the other.
Think the Vive sort of had an edge with the room scale thing, but as all I need is a headset to use in flight sims, room scale meant nothing to me.

I have now bought a Rift, but only because Oculus have slashed prices and the CV1 is nearly half the cost.
If the Vive had done the same I'd have bought the Vive.

Blitzen
Jul-21-2017, 12:10
Im actually genuinely tempted.... but. .. Basically my rig is pretty much centred on cliffs of Dover. I'm actually a bit scared if I'm honest that rift might have the potential to drag me away.

Sounds dumb on one level.... if something else is better do that.... but on another....

Cliffs is home. id hate to suddenly play it and feel it was somehow.... substandard.

Fear of that is what is stopping me.

Also.... I want my mummy.

I have played both CloD & BoS since the beginning of both& am more or less addicted to them both.Obviously they have their differences but I try not to get involved in that sort of discussion.Two weeks ago I bought Oculus Rift along with a 1080 graphics card & all else that goes into supporting Rift.Originally I had a 1070 card but opted to pay for a 1080 installed iinstead at an extra cost & honestly I can't tell much difference) With HUD on ( an FPS killer BTW ) I get an average of 45-50 with Rift in BoX ( of course much higher in Clod using Track IR)
In" Discussions" section I gave a brief review, but to sum up Rift is simply the most immersive utility I have ever seen in game play- the cliche 'game-changer' has it just about right! 3D effect on eyes 7 brain simply has to be seen to be believed. In things like landing & takeoff,formation flying its effect really puts you there with a much better sensation of depth.It is not without faults: I find detail in middle to far away is pretty blurry compared with Track IR and without HUD I'd say identification of any aircraft beyond 1.0 nearly impossible.We're told changes are on the way & within 2 years these clarity problems will be a long ways to be being solve...but i simply couldn't wait & you know I'm glad I didn't because even with its flaws it is mind bending-ly worth itfor the experience. I hope at some stage CloD makes it possible to use this technology, but I can wait...after all 5.0 is comong & I simply can't wait for that!
( BTW I sort of pity the guys who duplicated a WW2 cockpit in their game space because with VR its all there & better that any of us could duplicate!}:thumbsup:
Also anybody want to buy a 1070 card at discount just PM me if interested.?

ATAG_Highseas
Jul-21-2017, 12:25
( BTW I sort of pity the guys who duplicated a WW2 cockpit in their game space because with VR its all there & better that any of us could duplicate!}:thumbsup:


That has also occurred to me many times.

that said.... You still meed to get your control roughly in the right place.... which isn't always the same right place!

EAF331 Starfire
Jul-23-2017, 17:47
He's not off topic at all.

I've tried both and found them both to be fairly equal in the image and experience or at least neither stood out from the other.
Think the Vive sort of had an edge with the room scale thing, but as all I need is a headset to use in flight sims, room scale meant nothing to me.


I disagree.
The man is criticizing other peoples experience, not relaying his own opinion on the products.

EAF331 Starfire
Jul-23-2017, 17:58
Does anyone have any experiance with the FOVE?
(https://www.getfove.com/)
I know that it is still in development, but it seems that we will see a non-developer version in 2017.

2560x1440 display compared to 2160x1200, eyetracking and a resolution which adapt to where your eyes are focused (I wonder how that will work or not with our peripheral vision???)

ATAG_Highseas
Jul-24-2017, 12:35
I see the rift is at £399 now including the touch controllers. Wonder when they will offer just the headset at say.... £225

ATAG_NakedSquirrel
Jul-24-2017, 16:45
I don't quite understand eye tracking. They want to to take a fixed image in front of your face and move it based on your eye movement? It seems like it would be very disorienting.

The only disadvantage with looking around in vr at the moment is that looking at the edge of the screen can cause some blur because of the distortion of the lenses. Otherwise its like wearing goggles.

With eye tracking your eye movement when looking around would be greater than 1:1, and your eyes wouldn't be focused on the center of the lense. it seems like an odd solution.

J2_SteveF
Jul-24-2017, 18:14
I disagree.
The man is criticizing other peoples experience, not relaying his own opinion on the products.

You've read it wrong, he doesn't say that at all. He just says that once the user has bought one or the other they may end up having a bias.
There have been many arguements going on here and on the BoS forum around what is the better headset.
He goes on to say that the 2 headsets are not too disimilar and that he recommends the CV1 because that is the one he owns, but also says he might recommend the Vive if he owned that.

After owning the DK2 and trying the Vive, I ended up buying the CV1. But only because it costs £399 nearly half of what a Vive costs. Not because I think either outshines the other.