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ATAG_Ezzie
Aug-04-2016, 05:29
Buzz/TF5,

Now that the new theatre has been officially announced would it be ok for mission builders / potential mission builders to to start discussing ideas for new online missions for the new map and the old map with the new plane set?

For instance the new map will allow missions to be set in the western desert in the jun-dec 1940 timeframe. But to be historically accurate there would be no LW aircraft in a mission set during this period. How would the community feel about that?

It's been almost 2 years since I made my map that is in rotation on the server and I think I can almost face opening up the FMB against hence my interest in seeing if it's worth getting some ideas and thoughts out for discussion.

If TF5 has it already covered (and mission makers are already hard at work) or if you think it's not helpful to start these discussions then I'll pull my head in.

Ezzie

RAF74_Buzzsaw
Aug-04-2016, 05:44
By all means... although before release map will not be available for Mission builders not invited in by TF... and even those, not ready for a while.

I expect you will see more video updates of the map as the towns, etc. are built. :salute:


Buzz/TF5,

Now that the new theatre has been officially announced would it be ok for mission builders / potential mission builders to to start discussing ideas for new online missions for the new map and the old map with the new plane set?

For instance the new map will allow missions to be set in the western desert in the jun-dec 1940 timeframe. But to be historically accurate there would be no LW aircraft in a mission set during this period. How would the community feel about that?

It's been almost 2 years since I made my map that is in rotation on the server and I think I can almost face opening up the FMB against hence my interest in seeing if it's worth getting some ideas and thoughts out for discussion.

If TF5 has it already covered (and mission makers are already hard at work) or if you think it's not helpful to start these discussions then I'll pull my head in.

Ezzie

ATAG_Ezzie
Aug-04-2016, 06:15
Ok thanks Buzz.

So what desert war map missions would everyone be interested in flying? I'd be very interested in the following missions and might look to make one ( as long as Freya comes along and helps me) once TF5.0 is out and I've had a bit of a fly on it.

A. Italians invade - set in Sep ish 1940 when the Italians invaded Egypt and then for some reason dug in after advancing only a little way into Egypt. Plenty of bi-plane dogfighting ( assuming the cr42 and Glad are fly able) but no LW so this might not have universal appeal.

B. Retreat to Tobruk - set in April ish 41 after LW arrives. Commonwealth forces retreat to Tobruk and begin defence.

C. Hurricanes over Tobruk - based on the book and set during siege. Vulching historically occurred so some players will like that. Backs to the wall type of stuff for the RAF.

24104

D. Spitfires arrive - mission set in 1942 after arrival of Spits.

Any others?

Ezzie

Akula93
Aug-04-2016, 06:47
all four :)
although absence of tomahawks will be felt in 1941 desert missions scenarios

DerDa
Aug-04-2016, 06:52
I would like all of them.
Maybe it is even a good thing to be forced to learn about the underdog aircraft (did I turn into a masochist???).
Although I am a Spitfire addict I think it would be real fun to jump into a Gladiator from time to time. From the red point of view nothing but Hurris against Emils will be much harder for the not-so-gifted pilots like me.

Most probaly the only way to find out how popular the missions will be is to create them and to try.

Salmo
Aug-04-2016, 07:30
Here's a 1941 map that covers virtually identical area that the TF map will cover

http://www.wwii-photos-maps.com/northafricasitmaps/June%201941/slides/Tobruk%20%20June%201941.html

ATAG_Ezzie
Aug-05-2016, 06:50
Hours of fun researching here - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_North_African_airfields_during_World_War_I I

Swoop
Aug-06-2016, 07:54
They all sound great fun Ezzie, I'd especially like something that has a ground attack element in it with an escort using the new aircraft. Could be based around Tobruk with Blue attacking, trying to break in with tanks and air support, while Red defend attacking the tanks from the air and covering with fighters. Blue have to get to a certain point to win and Red have to stem the flow and destroy so many tanks to win.

I do wonder if the new tanks will be drivable and so used in an attack.

ATAG_Ezzie
Aug-06-2016, 17:01
They all sound great fun Ezzie, I'd especially like something that has a ground attack element in it with an escort using the new aircraft. Could be based around Tobruk with Blue attacking, trying to break in with tanks and air support, while Red defend attacking the tanks from the air and covering with fighters. Blue have to get to a certain point to win and Red have to stem the flow and destroy so many tanks to win.

I do wonder if the new tanks will be drivable and so used in an attack.

Good ideas Swoop. I hadnt given the ground side of things much consideration yet from a driveable perspective so that is something to investigate further. Plus hopefully the AAA/flak could be set up for players to protect places like Tobruk and have fun including shooting at aircraft and ground vehicles. There are plenty of images of Aussies and other nationalities with bren guns scanning the skies for Stukas and strafing 110s/109s near Tobruk harbour for instance.

I've just started re-reading Hurricanes over Tobruk to see what happened when - lots of airfield strafing thus far and I'm still in Dec 1940. While these online maps dont have to be historical I like ones that are grounded to some extent in historical fact. I did some research and the Beaufighters arrived in the desert in June-ish 41 after their earlier arrival in Malta and then Crete (some of them). Given how anticipated that aircraft is i think it probably needs to be included - so at this stage i'm thinking Tobruk from mid Junish 41 onwards might be my first focus for an online mission. And if the P-40E does get finished in time and the P-40B/C doesnt then I'm thinking of including it even thought it didnt arrive till late 41/early 42.

Anyway just some ideas at this stage - will keep reading and thinking. Thanks for the ideas.

Ezzie

Vlerkies
Aug-06-2016, 19:45
Good ideas Swoop. I hadnt given the ground side of things much consideration yet from a driveable perspective so that is something to investigate further. Plus hopefully the AAA/flak could be set up for players to protect places like Tobruk and have fun including shooting at aircraft and ground vehicles. There are plenty of images of Aussies and other nationalities with bren guns scanning the skies for Stukas and strafing 110s/109s near Tobruk harbour for instance.

I've just started re-reading Hurricanes over Tobruk to see what happened when - lots of airfield strafing thus far and I'm still in Dec 1940. While these online maps dont have to be historical I like ones that are grounded to some extent in historical fact. I did some research and the Beaufighters arrived in the desert in June-ish 41 after their earlier arrival in Malta and then Crete (some of them). Given how anticipated that aircraft is i think it probably needs to be included - so at this stage i'm thinking Tobruk from mid Junish 41 onwards might be my first focus for an online mission. And if the P-40E does get finished in time and the P-40B/C doesnt then I'm thinking of including it even thought it didnt arrive till late 41/early 42.

Anyway just some ideas at this stage - will keep reading and thinking. Thanks for the ideas.

Ezzie

So much part of the fun isn't it though, getting a better understanding of our collective history. ;)
Lots of good ops opportunities with the plane set available, bring your bucket and spade though, ye gonna need it.
:salute:

ATAG_Ezzie
Aug-06-2016, 19:53
So much part of the fun isn't it though, getting a better understanding of our collective history. ;)
Lots of good ops opportunities with the plane set available, bring your bucket and spade though, ye gonna need it.
:salute:

Yeah agree 100% Vlerkies - I made a bunch at M4Today and enjoyed them for this reason.

Another idea re a Tobruk map I had while flying just then - in the current maps AI bomber raided can be called by players every 60 mins. For Tobruk I wonder if AI tank attacks on the various commonwealth defensive positions could be called in by a similar process? As they come in the defending fighters/bombers have to try and knock them out and maybe ground based players in bofors etc could try and do likewise. I couldn't script this - I am useless re scripting - but it might possible?

Ezzie

ATAG_Freya
Aug-06-2016, 20:01
I think statics can be spawned in, but the actual moving vehicles depends on if TF fixed spline roads maybe (?). I'm not really sure how all that goes together. It would be interesting though, combined with a moving/movable frontlines code such as the one that Wolverine did in one of his campaigns. Stop the tanks or lose ground, airfields, planetypes, etc! That would be cool if possible to do. Time will tell I guess..

ATAG_Ezzie
Aug-06-2016, 20:09
I think statics can be spawned in, but the actual moving vehicles depends on if TF fixed spline roads maybe (?). I'm not really sure how all that goes together. It would be interesting though, combined with a moving/movable frontlines code such as the one that Wolverine did in one of his campaigns. Stop the tanks or lose ground, airfields, planetypes, etc! That would be cool if possible to do. Time will tell I guess..

Yeah lotsa possibilities Freya - as u say time will tell.

RAF74_Buzzsaw
Aug-06-2016, 22:57
I am hopeful vehicles and combat between tanks will be a bigger part of TF 5.0.

The reason?

- We do expect to have all of the vehicles usable.

- The open desert terrain makes it easier to spot opponents and ranges will open up more. The map will be more of a chessboard as opposed to the heavily wooded Channel map where it is very difficult to see an opponent.

- The nature of the Tobruk map, when compared to the Channel map, is you will see frontlines and ground troops facing off opposite each other... which will mean shorter drive distances.

- Interesting part of the map will be the dust kicked up by moving vehicles in the Desert will make it easier to see them, (see latest update video) so defenders on the ground have more of an opportunity to spot them and shoot, as do ground attack aircraft. We expect to be bringing in specialized ground attack tank busting types, ie. the Hurricane IIC/IID and Me-110C-6 which saw service in the theater.

III./ZG76_Saipan
Aug-07-2016, 03:26
I am hopeful vehicles and combat between tanks will be a bigger part of TF 5.0.

The reason?

- We do expect to have all of the vehicles usable.

- The open desert terrain makes it easier to spot opponents and ranges will open up more. The map will be more of a chessboard as opposed to the heavily wooded Channel map where it is very difficult to see an opponent.

- The nature of the Tobruk map, when compared to the Channel map, is you will see frontlines and ground troops facing off opposite each other... which will mean shorter drive distances.

- Interesting part of the map will be the dust kicked up by moving vehicles in the Desert will make it easier to see them, (see latest update video) so defenders on the ground have more of an opportunity to spot them and shoot, as do ground attack aircraft. We expect to be bringing in specialized ground attack tank busting types, ie. the Hurricane IIC/IID and Me-110C-6 which saw service in the theater.

does that mean the pathways for vehicles have been or will be fixed for tf 5.0?

Mysticpuma
Aug-07-2016, 03:31
We believe we have a solution. Still in testing :)

lil_head
Aug-07-2016, 04:36
We believe we have a solution. Still in testing :)

Will the vehicles have usable sights?

Akula93
Aug-07-2016, 10:48
does that mean the pathways for vehicles have been or will be fixed for tf 5.0?

Is the problem with roads that first trucks or tanks in single or columns, stay off road insted on roads?

http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10420

http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6834

I avoid this by placing starting waypoint not on road, but 50-100m aside road (depending on size of column)
like on this pictures:
https://s8.postimg.org/ldg5ahwxt/startwaypoint.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/ldg5ahwxt/)

then they fallow roads normaly
https://s8.postimg.org/e7y30jwvl/fallowroad.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/e7y30jwvl/)

or there is other problem with roads i didnt expiriance in game by now?

Swoop
Aug-07-2016, 12:33
Sounds perfect Ezzie, I can imagine it now. Yep it would be a richer mission to include the ground war. Long term, I'm sure we'd see an online campaign server running this eventually.

The desert is just perfect for a mixed air&ground war and something lacking in the current map, it would bring a whole new dimension (and maybe players) to Cliffs. Plus like Buzz said, we'd have the planes for it. I have pilots that only want to do the ground attack role, it would be interesting to see human tank squadrons.


The nature of the Tobruk map, when compared to the Channel map, is you will see frontlines and ground troops facing off opposite each other... which will mean shorter drive distances.

So does that mean we will see the forts and some kind of static line?

I'd thought the lack of roads would mean vehicles could go almost anywhere, thus avoiding the road bug?

RAF74_Buzzsaw
Aug-07-2016, 13:10
So does that mean we will see the forts and some kind of static line?

Yes, we expect to have fortified positions which can be placed and which could serve as protection for AT guns, MG positions, Mortar positions, etc.

Hystix
Aug-07-2016, 16:38
With the move to dx11 compatibility, will we be able to get more ground units moving simultaneously on the map without hickups on the server or will this remain approximately the same?

III./ZG76_Saipan
Aug-07-2016, 23:57
Is the problem with roads that first trucks or tanks in single or columns, stay off road insted on roads?

http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10420

http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6834

I avoid this by placing starting waypoint not on road, but 50-100m aside road (depending on size of column)
like on this pictures:
https://s8.postimg.org/ldg5ahwxt/startwaypoint.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/ldg5ahwxt/)

then they fallow roads normaly
https://s8.postimg.org/e7y30jwvl/fallowroad.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/e7y30jwvl/)

or there is other problem with roads i didnt expiriance in game by now?

yep, lets hope TF has the right fix. bit of pain doing it that way

IIJG27Rich
Aug-08-2016, 05:49
By all means... although before release map will not be available for Mission builders not invited in by TF... and even those, not ready for a while.

I expect you will see more video updates of the map as the towns, etc. are built. :salute:


One nice thing about the North African Desert....It's not downtown Tokyo :)

Akula93
Aug-08-2016, 15:39
One nice thing about the North African Desert....It's not downtown Tokyo :)

Not mutch objects on ground probably in area like on england map, but it looks like this new map could be most detailed map of this area we see in flying games by now, good times coming

IIJG27Rich
Aug-09-2016, 05:49
Can't wait :thumbsup:

Vlerkies
Aug-09-2016, 15:19
If anyone is looking for some detail of ops this may well be a little treasure chest.



Author's Foreword

I would like to explain the reason for writing this document and a little of my background. This will enable the reader to form his or her own opinion as to whether the document contains fiction or the truth.

Firstly, my object in writing this document is to make a record of the true happenings in the Middle East, and secondly, in the hope that perhaps on similar occasions, should they occur, consideration will again be given to any opinions or suggestions expressed as a result of experience by a comparatively junior officer.

Initially I arrived in the Middle East Command (first named RAF Middle East) in March 1933 and was stationed at Ismailia, a town near Lake Timsah on the Suez Canal.

In 1936 I returned to England, and in common with many Australians, I found the English climate extremely trying. Therefore I applied to be returned to the Middle East Command. In this I was fortunate as an officer who had been posted for instructional duties at a training school near Ismailia did not wish to go, and I was able to proceed as his replacement. In 1936 therefore I found myself again in Egypt at Abu Sueir, a training station only 12 miles from Ismailia. I remained at this station on instructional duties until the beginning of 1939 and was then posted to Ismailia, to command a squadron.

It was whilst at Ismailia in August 1939 that we received orders to move to our war station in the Western Desert, together with other squadrons who comprised the very minute air force component stationed in the Middle East at that time. The location of my squadron was at El Daba.

The reader should appreciate that I had therefore been in Egypt for practically the whole of my service in the Royal Air Force. During this time, being very interested in the country and the people I had to speak the language (and been successful in passing an examination).

At this stage I would like to apologise for the use of the first person. In Air Force jargon it is known as "shooting a line". Therefore, it is desirable to avoid obtaining a reputation of this type. However, after reading books which have been published in respect of the Western Desert and the number of statements which were obviously untrue, I decided that it would be a good thing to provide the reading public with the actual happenings as they are known to me from first hand experience.

For some time I was unable to proceed with this document due to the first person complex when I found that no other method would suffice. It was at this stage that Phillip Guedalla paid a visit to a station where I was in command during the period he was obtaining material in order to write his last book Middle East, 1940 to 1942: a study in air power (1944). When he realised how intimately I had been concerned with the Western Desert Campaign he suggested that I should write a book. I explained to him that I desired to do so, but (i) I had not the ability to write, and (ii) in my attempts I had run up against the barrier of the first person.

He told me that my attitude was entirely wrong and that it was necessary for me to use the first person rather than try to conceal events in some other form.

You now have the reasons for this document being written, why it is written so badly, and why I possessed more knowledge of Egypt than the average officer in the Royal Air Force.

https://www.laetusinpraesens.org/guests/jwbj/jwb1.htm

RAF74_Buzzsaw
Aug-09-2016, 15:31
If anyone is looking for some detail of ops this may well be a little treasure chest.

Thanks we saw that! :thumbsup:

Gaudério
Aug-09-2016, 17:39
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IT0ycW6PsWs

ATAG_Ezzie
Aug-09-2016, 17:50
If anyone is looking for some detail of ops this may well be a little treasure chest.



https://www.laetusinpraesens.org/guests/jwbj/jwb1.htm

Thanks Vlerkies - will read with interest.

Ezzie